MegaETH Live, Saylor Slippage & Tempo | Livestream

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What's up, guys? Just wanted to let you know about the Block Works Digital Asset Summit, which is back in New York March 24th through 26. We'll have top speakers from leading asset managers, financial institutions, DeFi protocols, crypto companies, and policy makers all under one roof. Think of Black Rockck, Coinbase, Robin Hood, and more. Follow the link in today's show notes to buy tickets, and make sure to use code 0x200 for $200 off at checkout. See you there. Nothing said on Xerox Research is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is forformational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Pokio Ryan and our guests may

hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Zerox Research. Today I'm joined by my co-host and one of my favorite people in Xerx Research, Danny. Danny, how are you doing? >> Good. How are you doing today, Boach? >> Good, good. It was a big day for the burgers. Did you Did you enjoy the Super Bowl? >> I did not watch the Super Bowl. I'm not a football guy. >> No. >> No.

>> Okay. Well, that is then our Super Bowl section for this episode. >> Yeah, that was a great discussion. [laughter] Yeah. Um, you know, if you didn't attend or watch the Super Bowl, there is one other event coming up that you should be watching and that is or attending and that is the Digital Asset Summit in New York. Um, Danny, I'm assuming you'll be going you'll be traveling to to New York. >> I will be at the Digital Asset Summit in New York this year, March 24th through the 26th. I think those are the correct dates. Could be wrong though.

>> I think those are the correct dates. And if you haven't bought your tickets, I'm sure there was already an ad at the beginning and you heard my lovely voice say buy using code 0x 200. If it's not 200 yet, wait two weeks and it might be or it might not be me. So, you're taking a massive gamble. We don't know how the how the discounts are going to go. Yep. I am my producer confirmed. 0x200. Use code 0x200 to get $200 off of your DAS tickets. Javitz North Center, New York City, D New York, March 24th to 26. That is going to be a good one. Very institutional. Um,

increasingly more institutional. I don't think we're even doing permissionless this year, Danny. >> I don't think so. I do think the lineup for D New York is pretty crazy relative to the industry, right? Like I know people from we're gonna have folks from the SEC, the CFTC, but also Tether, Binance Coinbase like >> Black Rockck. Uh >> we have a Fed governor coming, Mr. >> Yeah, Federal Reserve. >> Miran, I'm hoping I'm saying that right. As a foreigner, >> yeah, Moran, >> Mr.

one, >> finance. Uh yeah, lots of people coming. It's going to be a big one. Um, we have also Ethereum Foundation's Thomas Stanzac joining, which I feel like I haven't really seen anybody from EF at at DAS before. So, that should be a good one. Should be an interesting one. Feel like they don't really do a lot of conferences at the EF. So, maybe a signal shift um from the Ethereum guys to to show up to a big big conference. Um, but yeah, so buy your tickets using Zerx 200 and every time you do that, I get a dollar. So, if you buy a lot of them, I might actually have money following the market crash. Um, you know who doesn't have money following the market crash, Danny?

>> Who doesn't have money? Actually, probably a lot of people, but >> but I guess like the first one to talk about is Michael Taylor, who ended up Bitcoin is sitting at what 69K something. It was at 60K. Um, I feel like a lot of people bought at 65K. We're like, okay, this is the bottom now. and went down to 60K. Do you know where Michael Sailor bought? >> Higher than whatever the current price is. >> He bought at 78.6K, which to me seems ridiculous. Um I feel like he always gets these kinds of fills though right?

>> Yeah. I don't really understand the strategy um of strategy. It's very consistently we see the post, the announcement from them of their average purchase price from a prior time period and then you go and you look at the Bitcoin chart and he's like top ticked one hour of the trading window of the past week and it just makes you wonder like why why and how and how do you keep making that decision over and over again?

Surely they've surely they've missed out on a significant amount of potential coins um just from the fact that they seem to ape it all into like a five minute window every time. >> Yeah, maybe just to like show this chart as well. This is pretty ridiculous. He bought at 76K and I think this price is right. I'm pretty sure we're just like going like this. But it's pretty ridiculous like how he managed to I guess like he has an announcement delay, right? But even with that, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Um it's almost like he's trading at those like airport currency exchange desks where the spread is like 40%. Yeah, [ __ ]

it. I'll just buy as much as possible. Um he definitely needs to fix whoever is executing his orders. >> Yeah. I mean, the other consideration could be like I don't know. Is there enough value like [snorts] chain leak such that he's like people the market is always bidding up into his orders by the time they hit the market? I don't know. But yeah, either way they like they could certainly improve on execution. I don't think that's a surprise to anyone who's ever seen his average price per coin announcements post a post a purchase from from strategy.

>> Yeah. And like for reference that is like 12% higher than what the Bitcoin price is at right now like what he bought it at which I think typically he gets like 3 4%. And I I kind of give that the benefit of the doubt and it's a lot of size to get in you know whatever he's going through regulated entities however he's doing it. I don't know. I'm sure he has like strict regulations on how we can execute buys and stuff but 12% seems a bit much. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing, too, is if you were if you're consistently moving that much, like my expectation would be you'd be widening out kind of like your buy windows to just even, you know, move that kind of size into the market without impacting, you know, the price at the venues that

you're trading at. But, um, yeah, I don't know. The man, the man and the company's a bit of an enigma on why on why the execution is this poor continuously. Perhaps it will always be like that. It almost, this is a conversation I've had with James Kristoff before. It almost feels like [snorts] kind of like um on purpose in the sense that it's like, well, it doesn't actually matter if my execution is so bad because as long as I buy and hold Bitcoin forever, it will be higher than my average purchase price. Um I think probably a bit silly no matter what, but it's sailor for you.

>> Yeah, I don't know if he cares a lot. The thing is that when the market's going up, people are like, "Oh, like who cares? He he bought X amount of yards in Bitcoin." And then when a market's going down, everyone likes to laugh at them. Um >> then everyone wants to figure out what the uh I guess that's the other thing from the other week was um they mentioned on an investor call that like around 8,000 per Bitcoin is when they mentioned it would become uh noticeably difficult to service their debt payments. Um, but that would be at some point in time in the future as well, like whenever those uh first conversations.

>> $8,000 per Bitcoin. >> $8,000 per BTC was like sort of the number quoted. >> Okay. Well, we should be fine. Hopefully. >> We don't know. Did you see that article? >> $69,000 too expensive. >> Yeah. And then they have to change it to 70K. Um I think last cycle everybody wanted to liquidate him as well. They were like, "Oh, we can't go up until we liquidate Michael Sarah." it was just bidding insane amounts at that point. But he does up is it's just kind of crazy to me because I feel like if I have exposure to like a token, let's say hype for example, like hype went up on a big rally over the past month, month and a half. Well, the entire market went down, but I had exposure. So, if it's like rallying a lot, I'm like, "Okay,

well, I don't have to FOMO into this. I can, you know, relax a bit, see where the market is going, etc." But to him, that's not really the thing. like he he'll almost like buy not a lot at like low prices like and then like Q4 25 or 24 he bought a ridiculous amount. I don't know if you like he bought billions like more than >> 30 40% of his all-time purchases he bought um he like almost fomos in as higher the price goes. So because he's like oh the train is leaving without me.

Meanwhile, he has like a meaning a lot way too much probably Bitcoin exposure. >> Yeah, it's interesting because it's probably very different from like the way that the business operates in terms of like when MSTR has traded at a premium comes at the periods when Bitcoin is obviously going up a lot. And so basically, you know, those ATMs and ability to raise cash to put into the asset come at the periods when it's more expensive than when it's not. Um, so yeah, like discretionarily deciding to spend all of it right then at that moment. Um, probably doesn't make as much sense, but it's also like,

you [snorts] know, it's like that meme about the guy buying millions of egg futures and then when he says, "Okay, like I want to sell all my egg futures." um it's like what do you mean you're the guy that buys all the egg futures? So, you know, little bit of like he he's kind of also playing into the reason that it that it runs up so heavily during those periods. But yeah, I I would agree that there's kind of like an inverse like it would make more sense of course to be buying even more heavily when price is going down than when it is like been going up for two years straight. >> Yeah. Or but like you said if he wasn't buying a lot like sometimes Taylor is the only person in the market. Yeah.

>> And oftentimes that's when things start getting a little scarier. >> Yeah. And probably the other thing is like the you know the more thought out way of like adding leverage I guess if we want to call the way they operate leverage um would not be you know when you're setting you can make something in terms of to say like about wanting to play the momentum but certainly like double topping at 125k and then like maybe trying to put on a bunch of leverage like at at an all-time high maybe doesn't make as much sense as like trying to put on some leverage at like potentially a low and then um ride it up from there. But I don't know. I I I

think a lot of the like maybe typical logic that someone would would have in like their personal kind of investing portfolio does not really like fly the same way with with strategy and the way that they operate the business. >> Yeah. I wonder how much money sailor would save if he would just like write out objectively like what he's doing. And I was like, you know what? Like maybe >> like write it down on paper and like read it back. >> Like wrote it down to like reflect on it for a second. The uh I need to talk to I need to talk to somebody about their like their newest offering is like well not new anymore because it's been months, but I think the more I don't want to say desperate. I don't think he's getting desperate, but I think the

more um kind of in a difficult situation he's put in um it's like the more it might become flawed is the one where he's talking about it as if it's a stable coin. Do you know which one I'm talking about? >> Yeah. I don't know if it's Stretch or one of the other products that >> I don't I don't know if it's STRC or if it's STRD, but anyway, I need to get um Yeah, it's STRC. I need to get either Noah or James on to talk about that a little bit because that's something that I that really interests me and I feel like it's now is the time for that to like not do very well at some point, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And let's not forget Satrini's thesis of long BTC short MSDR. So, a lot of stuff that could that could go wrong from Okay. less um less sadness about M um Mr. Michael Sailor and more happiness about normies hate crypto still. >> Did you see the reaction? the Super Bowl Coinbase ad um was at least there's one clip that's going around that I saw, but um kind of this classic example of people being people were excited about just like you know a song a nostalgic

song and then at the it's got no basically reference to crypto and then at the end of the ad it's just Coinbase um and the I don't know millennial zoomer crowd uh still has negative connotations to crypto, Coinbase, all related. >> I don't think it's Zoomers. I think it's millennials that don't like it. But anyway, yeah, they still don't like crypto. Um I don't think they will ever like crypto. Is that a hot take anymore or No, I think we missed the boat on making them liking it. I think that there's a weird um it's like a weird conversation because

like do people do regular people like finance? Do they like fintech companies? Like I don't I don't know that they really like these things. It's more of just like do they use them or do they not use them? >> Yeah. But no one's like, "Oh, I [ __ ] hate uh the Fed wire or like [laughter] I [ __ ] hate VMO." Like they don't boo when I mean some people boo when like Powell goes on stage I guess notably but no one's like booing ads for like Venmo and stuff. I don't know if Venmo does that by the way but like I don't know if I met anybody who would be like oh I [ __ ] hate Revolute just seems

>> Yeah. I think there's a difference there too though like of because Robin Hood has had this in the past where they had the whole GME craze and like they had they couldn't keep the market on that open due to the kind of issues with back and liquidity and whatnot requirements. Um and they've had a lot of f like there's certainly a lot of people who would probably say like oh Robin Hood like that's they're like a a scam business like they're going to take your money away and they'll turn off the buy and sell button and you won't know it. And so I think there's probably a difference between just like a payment platform. Like if if I use Venmo, I just I get to send money to people and they get to send money back to me. There's not like any real like inherent chance of losing money on

an investment. I think I think some of these platforms like a Coinbase or a Robin Hood are more open to that potential of like, you know, they definitely went on big marketing campaigns in like 2021 and then the markets went down a lot uh into 22 and so you probably just have people who have negative sentiment there around, you know, they still think they think crypto is a scam. They think these exchanges like promoted it and like tried to prey on retail or something like that. Yeah, I get what you mean about Robin Hood. I feel like that illusion, that impression is also kind of gone now at this point. Like I feel like nobody's super although I was never like huge into WSB and stuff. So I I don't know.

But I feel like no one's super still like angry with Robin Hood and Vlad and stuff. I know like at some point they hated them and there was the movie that came out which I can imagine only like reminded people of it >> but I feel like vast portions of society don't hate Robin Hood or the I think like I think a lot of regular human beings hate artificial intelligence. Um, but I think part of that is because they're just afraid of like I also am quite concerned about like ramifications of AI. Um, because it's like they're it would be ignorant to say you're not. Um, so I get like when they hate that, but

even then I feel like I don't know like some number like 30 40% of people are like distant towards AI versus with crypto it's like 90% are like actively against it and then maybe 5% are like don't care and then the remaining 5% are just like you and me. Yeah, I think part of that probably um in all of these examples is sort of a result of like often the positive examples of these things are maybe harder to feel or notice. Like if if you use Google search now like the results and like the auto autopop

populated results are like enhanced by AI but like you you probably like don't really like associate that with oh this is an AI thing as like a normie but when you see like shitty AI generated art or like a shitty AI generated ad you go oh wow AI is terrible like that they took away they like got rid of artist a real artist to make this ad and paid AI to do it instead. And like, you know, they they get a a negative connotation to it from that. And I think what you have with some of these financial products is the same thing like in the crypto conversation. It's like, you know, there's maybe a few things that, you know, Bitcoin is up over the long term, but then it's like probably most people

have heard of insert memecoin or insert this token that crashed and went to zero or FTX. like they think of the very strong like bad negative examples and that sticks in their mind more so than um maybe like the relative growth of the industry over over time. >> Yeah, I agree with that. And like another thing here is I guess when you lose money on something I think probably most like technologically capable millennials have lost money on crypto to some extent. And maybe some of them come back and then they make money in the long term, but I feel like like they've dabbled in it, got rugged, um, lost

money on Bitcoin because they bought the top in either 2017, 2021, or 2025, 2026. Um, versus AI, you don't really get to get exposure to it. So, there's no like financial repercussions for except on the long term like job safety and whatnot. But in the like the short term, there's no like active, oh, I had like x amount of dollars, I lost 80% of it because Bitcoin [ __ ] crashed. Um, I was going to somehow tie this into Catrini's the broken promise thing. I don't know if you read it. It's like about how a lot of private companies don't go public anymore. Um, not a great tie, but maybe that is a good thing for some of the like I'm sure the AI companies would actually go up. Um, and it is a shame that if you want to get

exposure to anthropic, it has to be through like a fifth layer SPV and it's a 350 bill. Um, >> yeah, you get the point. >> I think it's a great piece by the way. I really liked it. I agree with him quite strongly. Very much uh a public markets supporter myself. So would love to see a shift back towards more businesses going public. I think as well like within crypto what probably what we need more of as well is like this you know fixing of of structures basically like we need to stop having these like dual entity um you know associations around you know

protocols and like this disconnect between token and equity and we just need to have whether it's one private entity or one public entity that's like tied to a thing um and just like more clarity around that. Um, we had some lively discussion with Noah in the chat around TTF and like the, you know, it's hard to understand the connection sometimes between like, you know, token and the foundation and then like also the labs team. Hopefully, we can see some more progress there. I think I don't know metadata stuff for metadata like that's that's it's a good example like getting everything aligned on token. There's some teams that are like really leaning in the right direction, right? like you know aligning all of the structures like under one one uh business or like under one kind of

structure within the token or something along those lines. But uh that's probably also where I think just a lot of the I don't know we we've had these discussions for the past couple years of like everything's a memecoin. Okay, no not everything's memecoin like some things are whatever. But I do think that a lot of the external perception of the industry basically comes down to like basically it's all kind of gambling for the most part and like most of it's all memecoins. Um and and I think people probably like largely don't take much of it seriously for that reason. >> Yeah, I think that makes sense. I will say on that um Noah thing is like I I very much agree with him. I don't really agree that Metad I like Metadow a lot and I think what

they're doing is very cool, but I just kind of disagree with the fact that they're going to make it work purely because that would mean that like one company essentially owns the entire back end for it. Um, does that make sense? >> Like I'll agree with you like I'm not I'm not like entirely convinced that like metadal will be the final answer or anything along those lines. Like I think if you ask me my real view, I would just expect that >> regulation. >> It's a regulation problem and we'll just tokenize equity and everything will just be tokenized equity and this concept of tokens just goes away. Like there's just no point to have this this different thing that's different from equity.

>> Yeah. Especially if all equities become tradable on chain, which seems to be the like where everything else is going. um they'll just require the same um disclosures from token teams. But I'll but I'll give credit like where I think it's due because I I say this a lot too around you know you don't want to be an endstater when it comes to things and like there's when it comes to regulations like there's probably I don't know I mean maybe they'll drop a bill this year next year like clear regulation around tokenized equities and like it could happen very quickly or it could happen over 5 to 10 years who knows um you know that's just

kind of how regulation goes and that's how Washington goes in the US. Um, so it could be short, it could be long. I think uh with that in mind, like there is often room to make a lot of money sort of like in the meantime on the way to the end state of things. And I think this is like a discussion that always comes up in terms of like trading frontends and exchanges of like, oh, they're going to their fees are going to get compressed. They're not nobody's going to make any money doing this, so therefore you should make XYZ product now instead. It's like, no, no, there's actually a lot of money to be made right now and so therefore people will compete over that. And so I think like you can't just dismiss, you know, a metad or any other team that's like building in a

something that makes sense right at this moment. >> Like everyone understands it will change, but there's still money to be made and you know progress to be made. >> Yeah. The idea of like waiting for the end structure is the same to me as thinking that like all markets are efficient always and it's just like I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. Um yeah, I agree with you completely. I think it's mostly a regulation thing and it just until then I think you have a few avenues to explore. One is like metadow etc. One is just straight up just buying equities only but maybe onchain and then investing in some of those platforms if you're if you have to get exposure to crypto somehow feel like that's a way to

do it. Um it is tough though because also if you are a team that discloses everything like Daniel let's say you and I started a protocol and we have a lab and we disclose our opex and our capex and everything of the lab of like the labs team if everybody else doesn't do it because I feel like crypto people don't read in between the lines and they don't take that extra step to think oh they're going to be like oh these guys just like spending way too money or something or like it's just going to be convoluted versus the much easier way is to just ignore all of it and show like a topline revenues and fees thing and just go with that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I

understand what you're saying, but I would I would hope and like I think we would kind of have to like hope and have higher expectations of like the investors in the space to say like I mean if you have a team that's great stewards like that and is going to take that step forward that other teams are not taking like you'd probably be more willing you know a you like their vision you like whatever product they're building in but also b if they're willing to do that and like be more transparent in terms of the financials of you know the labs co plus the foundation and whatever the structure looks like. Um, you know, directionally I would like be more willing to like invest money in them than a team that is not willing to be more transparent with me. So, I guess I would I would hope or

expect that like if anyone starts trending in that direction that the industry will sort of be forced to do so as a whole. >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess that makes sense >> because I think you know if you're incentivizing basically like if bad actors kind of get a get a free pass to like not disclose things that would make their financials look very bad. Um then you just have to if you're an investor you have to view anyone who is like that with some additional skepticism. So any team that's willing to be more upfront with those details you can get rid of some of the skepticism and now you just have the hard data around what their financials look like.

>> Yeah. Yeah, cuz right now I think you just have to assume that they're all losing a bunch of money somehow and they're just hiding it. >> Yeah, that is probably a safe assumption to make at this point as well, >> especially now. Um, >> especially now, >> um, one thing that is slightly similar to this like new approach thing is first of all, Mega E is live. Um, the rabbit hole. Uh I I would not share any link now because I feel like I might mess it up somehow. But if you go to the Mega Eve page, you can see what they're doing. I went through their like the process. I thought it looks pretty cool to onboard people. You can like

gives you a list of questions that you might want answered. Where's the best yield? Um what per products are live? What farms are live? What can I do? Etc. Like 15 to 20 of them maybe. Um, I don't know. Any any initial thoughts or else I want to talk about the KPI based vesting thing? >> No, no initial thoughts. It's too early. It's the same five apps you'd find on any fresh chain. So, >> yeah. >> I mean, to be fair, they have some [snorts] newer ones compared to the other ones, but I'm trying to pull up this KPI. Do you want to pull it up so I can keep doing my little monologue?

>> Let me see if I can find it. I will say I think like some of the newer like you know Euphoria is one that gets talked about the um product is still weight list. So I think like the actual the the new interesting stuff may take some time. Let me find their KPI post. >> No not their post their um their website chat. I I hope somebody's watching this. >> Do they have the KPIs on the site? I'm on the rabbit hole. >> Yeah, they have it. Where's the KPI thing? If anybody from Xerox research group chat is listening, can you send it into the I'll click on any link being sent to the Blockworks the Zerox research chat right now. So if you have it please >> click any links right now.

>> Oh, I found it. Ali sent it an hour ago. There we go. Okay, I am no longer a fraud. >> Oh, I found Yeah, I see it now. >> Bam. It's the movie. Okay, are we good? Can you see? Yep. >> Okay. Road to TGE data is updated daily at 10 a.m. Eastern time. Okay, so they went live today and their KPIs are that there needs to be 10 live Mega Mafia apps. There needs to be 500 million USDM and there needs to be 50K in daily fees from at least three projects. Um I don't think this is specifically for these three projects. I think it can change. Anyway, five are live. So this is cap. I don't know which one these are. I don't know what all of

these are, but I know one is Avon. Um, >> five of them are like, this one is not Kumbaya. I'm pretty sure one of them is Kumbaya, which is back/ Launchpad. I don't know what this is. I don't know what this is. Um, I got to look them up. Anyway, this one I think is an easy one to hit. I'm a bit worried about these. This 500 mil USDM. Let's say that is also fine. They'll figure out a predepositive wall. They'll figure something out. This one 50k daily fees over 30 days. >> They only need to hit one KPI though, right? Like they're gonna hit 10 apps and then and then seven days later the token will TGE.

>> Is it just one KPI? >> Yeah, it says on the left one KPI hits seven days TGE. >> Well, I thought it was they had to hit KPI. From my understanding from from the posts and Brett's posts in our in the Xerox Research Telegram chat. Uh quick shout out to the Zerx Research TG. Brett is in there among many other folks within the go and yell at him. >> A great place to be connected generally speaking. You know, you can always ping Brad and other folks uh in the space in there, but I from what I understand, you they the intention is to only need to hit one of the three KPIs and then um the 7-day timer for the TG will will hit. So, like from current POV and I think just generally speaking, like I

think 10 apps will go live and then and then that countdown will start. Okay, that's very good news because if it was free KPIs, I thought it would be very very difficult. >> I could be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's that's the case. >> I think Brad in the chat. Brad, please answer. All right, we'll see. But like 50k free apps, I think majority of chains probably don't have that. Like I think if soul base I don't even think like like optimism almost definitely doesn't happen right >> in daily fees.

I was going to pull up the data really quick >> yeah river confirmed that it's only one KPI that needs to be hit. So >> yeah makes a lot of sense. Um, so like if we look for today or you know like last week or whatever. I mean on network rev there's like yeah I mean it would be like Tron, Salana, Hype, ETH base. Bass barely makes barely made 50K. I guess it depends on the day for bass. Sometimes they hit it, sometimes they don't hit it.

>> Are you doing um application revenue per chain. I'm >> just looking at network revenue. Is that based on app revenue? >> Yeah, it has to be three unique apps under them that makes 50k a day. >> Oh, interesting. >> For 30 days. I'm trying to I'm pretty sure we have this data on block works. That's the thing. I know we have like app fees by sector, but do we have it by chain? Maybe we do. I'm just looking at apps. I mean, you'd kind of get to the same like [snorts] questionable result by just

looking at the top apps um across all the major chains. And it's like there's there's only like 10 or 20 or so that that are going to cross that threshold by themsel. Um though of course if you end up with a couple of apps that are doing you know 510k in fees then you know you could like build up towards that yeah I mean that's that's a tough goal out the gate certainly I would agree um takes time like maybe I maybe you would look to like monad as a comp for example like they've been out for several months now um kind of like relatively similar like high throughput uh EVM chain >> focused on

higher higher throughput apps. Um, and I'm not not aware of what kind of app revenues they're doing, but >> well, I can tell you they have 24 hours. They have one application that has had above 10K in fees, which is called Neverland. It's a lender. I'll just I need to put this up. Um, there we go. It is Neverland, which has 20 18k in fees like Uniswap has 9K. Shmon monad shush monad is um 9k sorry is 4.3k so it's tough right and it's like I guess this was majority of people this was my worry

when they announced this thing I was worried that they would make them hit all three of them even 500 mil USDM I think is relatively difficult because especially if they don't like turn up the incentives if they turn up incentives 500 mil is nothing But if they don't use incentives to like lure people in, I think that they probably wouldn't be able to hit it for at least a month. My I don't know that like a lot more work on the back end goes into TVL than I think a lot of people realize. So maybe they already have it set up and I wouldn't be surprised if they do because they are relatively like on top of everything from what I've seen the team.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I think looking to maybe maybe framed a different way like looking to monet as a comp here. If the goal is to hit these goals within a month or so, then they're setting like uh relatively high bar for themselves, right? They're looking to have higher TVL be doing basic a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I don't even looks like Monet is like maybe just barely at that 50k a day in total app fee revenues. So yeah, like above that water mark. Um so yeah, they're setting sort of like a competitive goal for themselves is how it seems. I do agree

with you on the TVL thing like just you know from my understanding there like you have potentially partnerships or or some kind of deals worked out there maybe in advance. So um the app one feels like the the most kind of simple. you know, they've got the Mega Mafia, they've got teams that have been planning to launch apps. So, that's um you know, from conversation with Brett, it seems like that was sort of like a gimme. And then the other ones are really um more can we achieve this and we'll see.

>> Yeah, I think this is also the first launch of I would say like the bear bear market. So, it's going to be interesting to see how how they do. >> Um, >> yeah. I mean, I wish them the best of luck. It's years of building and then unfortunately you end up launching in the bear. >> Yeah. >> See what they end up doing. They do have um I'm going to try out um which is like a eim thing. I've historically used Aerolo. I don't know if you know Aerolo.

I thank you Americans that get to like take your SIM card wherever you want and you get free data. It's not like that everywhere else. >> Well, we have you have usually you have to pay like an add-on for international but yeah, you can usually keep your SIM. >> Yeah. Um we don't get to do that, so I have to I usually use like a but apparently it's this thing called Ubotel. Um it looks pretty cool. I'm going to check it out. That's the It's already live. Um I'm going to check that out. And the other one is um Hop Network. I'm like for a VPN I only use Mulvad. Um I'm going to check out if Hop is any good. But yeah, that's it. I

haven't checked out anything else yet. I don't I know you haven't had time yet as well, so I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot, but >> No, >> no, it's fairly early. I I looked at um some of the apps. I think um you know, Euphoria has been the one that's popped out to me since a long time ago that I'll certainly probably go tap around in there. But I think, you know, like I don't really need to go use like the swap product uh on mega eth. I probably wait for more of these like different because I mean I think that's expected, right? Like some of the more differentiated things like they I'm not surprised that they're that they're not launching day one. Uh they they probably got some more backend stuff to figure out before launching their apps. um you

don't really want like a a gamified options thing to like blow up and you know lose a bunch of money on day one. So probably better to take their time there. >> Uh yeah, I I just saw they have their Tesla goes live next week. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I'm excited to apparently giving out a Rolex as a prize. So that would be really nice >> like a trading competition thing. Yeah, trading competition thing like Flappy Bird for Rolexes, if that makes sense. Does that make >> Maybe Tai will win. He's been um he's been really hitting some trades this bare market.

>> He's too smart to play with. >> I can't believe Tai is so funny. Like I can't believe he he has the worst trade of the year, which is >> by Celestia free. Oh, is this the new like is this the new free free air meta? And then he also shorted the [ __ ] top of Ethereum. >> I thought you were going to say um Fartcoin for the first one. Like buying buying a lot of Fartcoin at like I think I feel like he got bullish when it was like more than a dollar. So very much near the highs. But yeah, then shorting ETH and then shorting ETH again.

>> Yeah, he definitely made up I think he made up for some losses for sure. He made up for some losses and then some. >> Yeah, I like I think Tai gets a lot of [ __ ] But I will say one thing like his content is at least it used to be. I don't know his content that well anymore but I don't know if you ever saw Taiiki's like YouTubetubes. >> Yeah, >> like his YouTube like it's very high. He spends a lot of time doing that stuff and it's like very high quality. Um I don't think it's the same market anymore. It used to be a lot about like farming and stuff and I think a lot of people benefited off that. It's not It's obviously not the same anymore, but I will like give give him props where it's still because he spent a lot of time

doing those things. >> Yeah, I think um I don't know. I followed him since 2021, I want to say. So, I do think like obviously the content has changed. There's not like free money for just depositing capital everywhere and anywhere anymore. So, that has definitely changed, but obviously there's still been, you know, some of the per taxes, the the airdrops for those have been quite material. So I think some of that like airdrop farming content has kind of like shifted over to the purpose side of things maybe specifically. And so I think as a result he's probably had to think a bit more about like how to trade. Um you know to be short to be long to like try to be neutral or something along those lines.

Um, so it seems like that's kind of helped. Like he seemed he seems pretty like pretty smart, I would say, relative to maybe just like being the Hubble Farmer persona from a couple years ago. But, uh, yeah, I like I like Tiki. I think he's a good guy. >> Yeah, I think so, too. Um, his like dildo arc was really funny as well. [laughter] Yeah, he did go like full back in but that would have been like what 24 late 24 early 25 he was very much like full uh like brain lit mode just like I'm long everything is bullish like let's go crazy

and then um I think he he kind of got he had to get like a little rehumbled he had to go back to his humble beginnings in uh 2025 five. >> Um, yeah, that's fair. I guess last topic for today is one that we've we've well, I didn't put DWR here, but mainly I want to talk about Tanner Romero and Farcaster, the entire team joining. I'm um I guess like I'll share a screen for a bit. mainly I just want to share this he is joining tempo um but it's not just him it is also varun varun

varun I'm not sure but he used to also work at farcaster so from what I understand um I think the forecaster like entire team or devco got bought out by tempo which seems very interesting because I I know Dan Romero used to be at Coinbase and so did Verun. Um I just look up what Dan used to do. I have a general idea that he was on the product side, but I and I know he was like a very early employee. Um I'm just like kind of curious about this

aqua hire from Paradigm for Tempo. Yeah, I don't think they from what I understand, I don't think they hired the entire team, but they certainly like pulled some talent. Um definitely great um a great run for Dan Romero. Hats off to him for >> I mean I think pretty pretty good outcome in terms of like from what I I mean there was the business got kind of bought he got bought out from the business and then I think probably some investor capital was returned in part of that deal. So, seems like like a relatively good outcome compared to some of the like I don't know aqua hires we've seen here recently

of like a token just kind of like gets decimated or something and then the team leaves to join another business. Um, this one seems a bit better. I did see Mert put out a tweet that was like Tempo now has Dankrad Dan Romero Dan Robinson Matt and Giorgios lau this is the Golden State Warriors with Durant. Um, kind of an interesting point. I do I do feel like there this is kind of like an interesting um like congregation of technical talent uh behind this like tempo effort. So um certainly you know Stripe looking to make a pretty strong move here. I don't we'll have to

kind of see. I don't know. This still very like early stages. Tempo doesn't really like mean anything in the context of like there's not we're not really like looking at products yet. We can't really see the impact today. So, it's kind of just like okay, they're they're assembling some players. They're assembling a team. Uh let's let's see what happens. But, uh certainly a lot of like core technical talent from within the space. >> Yeah. I'm um one thing I was thinking about is so I when Frantech first launched I wrote a report on Fr. This is like a long time ago.

Um, and when I was writing that report, I also looked at lens and I looked at uh forecaster. Um, and what forecaster had on the back end was a knowledge graph. And I'm wondering if that the way that that knowledge graph is built is going to be used for tempo in way if tempo is a payments chain because you know how unforcasted is like it's like at Danny or like at D5K, right? I wonder if they're going to do something with that. That's the only thing that like kind of makes sense to me for the aqua hire thing. Does that make sense? I know they didn't buy out the whole team, but maybe like for somebody to handle the knowledge graph

side of things, I feel like that could make sense. Um, apart from that, like about the M tweet. Yeah, I mean it's funny that he called himself 2014 Spurs. I like that. Um, hype is probably the Cavaliers with Jeff as LeBron. Also, I guess a fair point. Um, yeah, it does. Tempo scares me a bit because you know the Gwart tweet, you built all of these things for Robin to just come and take it. It's literally that except like Paradigm super sharp and they're also super cryptonative and

um they're working with Stripe who like Stripe also isn't is one of those things that like I I don't know if Catrina mentions them. I think he might but it is like one of those private companies that never went public like the broken promise. So, I don't know if they would launch a token. Um, right. Like, >> I hope they wouldn't. That would be awful objectively, right? Like, >> yeah. I mean, payments is hard to monetize as well. >> It'd be much better for them to go public than to launch a token for their chain.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, like it's tough for you to get exposure. You have to fight. I don't know what the tempo I don't know what the Stripe private markets look like. I don't know if it's like the AI stuff where it's like 15th SPV and you're you have like 400 counterparties at that point that might [ __ ] you over or if it's simpler. But so that's the only reason, right? Like we all know that like crypto rails are objectively better than non-crypto rails because it's very quick and because it's 247 and because it's t plus zero. Um, but what if you are right for 18 years, but you never make any money

on it? >> Yeah. I mean, I think this is probably I do think this is probably a conversation that we're just going to keep having more and more often. Um especially as I mean we've got DS coming up next month and like institutions are leaning in more and like some of those institutions are older and more legacy and some of them are a bit more agile and like kind of more on the leading edge of like the fintech side of things and obviously some of them are like more sort of exposed to crypto than others are at this point in time but certainly like the you know Robin Hood and Stripe and Coinbase are going to come and you know take all the open source tech and like

deploy it and distribute it to their customers is a very re credible threat to you know DeFi Maxi 101 that wants to democratize it all or something along those lines. You know I'm not sure. I don't have I don't have a strong point here other than that I just expect the competition to increase and become more apparent over time actually. >> Yeah. The issue is that you can't let like the Microsofts win. Do you know what I mean? I don't know how else to put it.

Like Linux is great and it's free, but people don't want to use it because it's difficult to use, but then Microsoft comes into stage, does really well. Have you used Windows 11? It's horrible. >> Yeah, I hate it. >> Eventually, it turns into that. So you want to be a little bit careful is like it's me broadly saying like D5 1.0 is like the democratizing people are you um Linux and then just don't want another Windows 11 ever especially with finance. That would be horrible.

>> Yeah. I don't know if that's like if that's just like a bad example because >> it is >> people just hate Windows because I feel like you could say, "Oh, you don't want Apple to win, but people love their iPhones." So, it's like a bit of a different, you know, there's plenty of companies that are just like massive at the top and have great products that people love. >> Yeah. I would love for Apple to win though. [laughter] I just like I just don't want like a like >> He doesn't want Microsoft to win. >> Dude, Windows 11 just looks horrible. And also I don't have any like Windows stuff in my house. Um my brother has because he plays video games, he has a Windows desktop and I I looked at it and it has like

ads in the start menu which is ridiculous and stuff. This is like completely devolved in the conversation but you get the general gist. Like I just don't want to get to that point. We should keep a bit of the D5 1.0 no spare life. >> Unfortunately, probably not possible. I don't know if this is a doom or take, but I think part of it is like somewhat inevitable in the sense that like you kind of get this explosion of like apps that give away free money during the like you know heavy funding phase and then like but then at some point eventually inevitably um the businesses have to make money and so then you end up with ads and subscription costs and like you know

cost per token if it's AI or whatever. So I think there's always kind of like there's that classic I don't know what what they call that chart but like the you know infl overinflated expectations trough of disillusion disillusionment and then like the you know real path after that and um I think these trends kind of follow that pretty consistently. >> The thing is in crypto every cycle bottom people say we're in the trough of the solution like every single thing. I swear 2022 we had the same exact thing. >> Yeah, I think you're right. I There is there is something like uh Stockholm syndrome about folks here of like just consistently believing that like okay no but for real like this time

we're going to 100x and like we won't go back down after >> this time we're going to change the world. I can't believe the fouryear um cycle maxis were right. >> They were right all along. Unless >> unless super cycle the thing is that if it is a super cycle you want to be long. If you're not long you're not going to make it. So, >> true. >> Okay. I um my producer is going to be upset with me because I didn't put the closing thing as we were closing, but some closing thoughts from my end is that Danny, I appreciate you for coming on today's episode. Um and if you're a listener, come to the digital asset summit in New York March 24th to 26

200 to get $200 off. Um, we are going to have a lot of big names from the SEC, CFTC, Black Rockck, Coinbase, Salana, Ethereum Foundation. I'm sure there's a million other people that are coming and none of them matter except for you, the listener. >> You need to be there. Um, but yeah, Danny, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. I do think uh DAS is gonna be sick. I think uh we're going to be there. All of the other podcast gentlemen will be there. Mark Arjun will be there um with some exciting things that I don't think I can share. Uh so definitely come out to D. Catch us

there. What's the What do I need to wear a tie for DS? What did you wear to DAS last time? >> I always do a shirt. Um like a proper shirt. Not like an Do you know like a proper shirt? >> Yeah, dress shirt. Yeah, >> just shirt. [laughter] >> A proper shirt. >> Like decent pants and uh laced uh proper shoes. And I also describe them. >> Is that is that what most everyone wore? It's just it's everyone in uh dress shirts and dress pants. >> Yes, dress shirts, dress pants. I think you can wear a suit top, but to be honest with you, uh I don't think you have to. I think like I I I had a vest.

>> Vest is classy. Not like a not like a a Birmingham in the 30s vest. More like a more like a finance bro vest. >> Okay. And like a monle and a pipe and >> Yeah, monle and pipe top hat. Pork pie hat. >> A walking cane. Yeah, >> a walking cane. Um, yeah. No, I think you don't have to wear a tie. I don't know. All right. Jacob me Shawn then messaged me in a in a in a panic last week. I was like, "Dude, I don't know what I'm gonna wear to to this." I sent him a list. I'll tell him, "Send you the list." I told him where to buy stuff as well.

>> Yeah. I I just I might need to buy I need to I probably need to do some shopping. It's uh I'm not a frequent wear of, you know, that's like a oh, somebody has a wedding. Let's get out the suit from the closet type of thing. So, >> that's fair. >> May need to hit the store. But uh and maybe for those of you out there if you're coming to desk, maybe also get yourself a nice shirt if you don't have one. >> Yeah, I >> Yeah, I will give >> Sorry. >> No, go ahead. >> Yeah, I will say it's better to buy them now than later because you know with that coming up, everybody's going to be going in to buy shirts and stuff.

[laughter] >> Okay. All right. Well, there'll be there'll be more dashes coming as well. So, it'll be a good investment if you show up to multiple of them. >> And, uh, I believe we'll be at all of them. So, uh, certainly come out and see us there. >> Yeah, certainly come out. And I don't know if we're going to do an event for ZeroX, but if enough people are showing up and they ping us in the chat and saying, "Hey, man, I'm showing up. Are we doing an event?" Then we will then I have like leverage to pull to say, "Let's do an event." >> Yeah. I don't I don't I don't think we'll be doing an official event, but we could certainly do something unofficial.

But also certainly if if you're going to be there, you know, feel free to ping in the chat. Come chat live in person. Happy to chat. >> Yeah, I am super weird in person. They're just [laughter] show up. Don't be like, "What's that dude's problem?" >> But I think they're expect they're expecting that after seeing you on the show. Like I don't Is that a surprise or >> Yeah. No, I'm sure people expect me to be very very good. Okay. It's [ __ ] on Bkacio day, but >> No, I'm just kidding. >> Okay, peace. >> All right, chat. See you guys.