Maker's Endgame, Spark and yield-bearing stablecoins

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milk Road show The Daily crypto show that's as rare as pulling off the thanks you two without of hitch I'm your host Jay Hamilton and today we are joined by milk Road Pro researcher Martin first time on the show for Martin super excited to have him because Martin spends every single minute of every single day deep in the analytics looking at what's going on on chain and one of our favorite tokens is maker or Sky which is their new name and today we're to talk about what is going on with maker Maker's been on an absolute roller coaster back on June TW 12th we did a show about why we believe that maker was one of the most undervalued assets one of the most undervalued tokens and how we thought it

could 20x in this cycle now we're we're not perfect we're not always right what happened since then maker dropped about 65% now it has jumped back up in the last week as all crypto is jumping back up but we're still feeling pretty good about maker now we did an episode few weeks ago on October 12th where we had one of Maker's past leaders come on the show and talk about why he's actually bearish on maker and the issues that he sees so you guys can go back and check out that episode if you want but today Martin is g to break down is it time to sell your maker or is now the time to double down and buy it at a bargain

price we will be answering that today and giving you our investment thesis so that you can decide how to treat your portfolio and you're going to want to stick around to the end because Martin's going to give his prediction for the maker token in this cycle now before we jump in we need to take a minute to hear from our sponsors who make the show possible whether you're bullish or bearish on micro strategy T-Rex ETFs are your gateway to Dynamic marketpl get exclusive access to leverage exposures with the first two times short or two times long ETFs designed specifically for micro strategy stock position yourself with Precision with T-Rex you

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few Taps and you're ready to go click the link in the description and join uphold today Martin welcome to the show Good to be here I'm so excited to have you let's start with within the milk Road Pro portfolio which is uh one of the daily things that you look at there are 12 tokens now I'm not going to tell everybody what the 12 tokens are in Pro you're going to have to go pro if you want to find out that but I am going to tell you that maker is one of the tokens I won't tell you how much we hold a maker in the portfolio again you'd have to go pro to find out that but you could have picked thousands of tokens for the pro portfolio and you picked maker why

did you pick maker I think we have a pretty straightforward thesis like we are always looking for strong fundamentals so in case of maker it's obviously product which is working their users paying for using maker products so you can think of strong fals like maker is generating 300 millions in annualized Revenue today so that's pretty something and it's among the top I don't know five applications in crypto these days generating these amounts and then we are pretty much looking for devaluation because like we don't want to hold and buy overvalued tokens and

maker is trading around 20p price earnings ratio and just to give you a perspective if you compare it with SNP or NASDAQ they are around 30 and if you compare it with Nvidia for example it's trading around 70 PE ratio so you can see that it's still undervalued just using these basic benchmarks basically and the third thing if we are interested in is we want to see growth so like today maker is Trad is trading around 20p ratio but we want to see like the future growth for maker and this

forwarded p ratio becoming even lower than this 20 so if you if we kind of create our model where we are projecting makers future Revenue we think it's gonna head maybe 1 billion next year in Revenue so like those three things combined together that's why we hold maker those three things sound pretty damn good uh so if you're looking for a token which has no revenue and is purely speculative which many of them most of them are this is not the show for you if you're looking for a token which is one of the top tokens one of the top businesses in terms of Revenue then this show is for you as Martin said 300

million in annual revenue for maker that's absolutely incredible their price to earnings ratio makes zero sense that it's so low to me at a 20x when there's so many others that are so much higher we didn't even mention within crypto how high some of those priced earnings ratios are makes zero sense so look maker basically is it's a bit of a unicorn within the crypto space to have the growth that they've had to achieve the the revenue that they've had can you just give us a little bit of a history lesson because I think in order for everyone to understand where we are now with maker we sort of need to look back to their beginnings and understand their growth yeah sure it's pretty funny you you you say unicorns because we don't

really use these terms in in crypto right but if you are like in in traditional markets and looking for new startups you are basically looking for another unicorn and here in crypto there is like pens of unicorns and like no one really called them unicorns so that's kind of funny um but yeah maker maker started like early 2018 18 or something like that and just to give you a perspective like 2020 maker has tbll around couple hundred millions I think around 300 millions in TBL or something like that and then the the the defi took really off and summer defi happened and in 2021 maker suddenly have around 10

billions in TBL so they experienced amazing explosive growth which is for every startup really hard to kind of manage properly right because well not many startups have a luck to experience this kind of growth right but it also leads to things that you are over hiring you are having processes kind of cause you are also increasing complexity of like everything what's going on and this department doesn't have idea what the other guys in your in your team are doing so it's kind of messy and yeah that's what maker has experienced and

many people are actually like hey maker was mass they were over hiring and if if you were just trying to get everything what's going on with maker it was almost impossible and critics say that um maker no my point is that's something that every successful application in crypto will kind of experience in the future probably in this cycle but so maker is pioneering everything pretty much they were the first D they they were the first product the first application with product Market fit so they are in front of everyone else

experiencing that everyone will also experience in the future so yeah like my point is we should like everyone should look at the maker and trying to learn what they' have experienced and how they are trying to solve things today and like learn learn from them and try to apply it for you because this this cycle it's going to happen to many projects but they are not ready for that growth either so they will challenge the same issues that make her yeah it's a it's interesting and paper Imperium who is the uh maker delegate the former leader who came on the show a few weeks ago he talked about this exactly this maker bease is the

same as their bull case they grew so fast and when you grow that fast and you have that much success it creates challenges it creates issues for you and that's where yeah those growing pains are causing some issues for maker but that those are also great things like it's very bullish to be growing that fast obviously now what what ended up happening maker had this crazy growth through 20120 2021 through defi summer and then they needed to deal with this they needed to deal with all these issues having and so run who is the um the founder of maker came out with this proposal called endgame I'm not talking about Avengers endgame the movie I'm

talking about a proposal to basically deal with all of these issues he called it endgame can you just give us a brief idea of what is endgame and why it had so much controversy when it first launched so endgame was pretty much Maker's answer to all these things you just name named and it should help to streamline the processes reduce the complexity also try and kind of Outsource some parts of risk that maker is involved and yeah like basically simplify everything that's going on with maker and try to create kind of small subd around maker who will manage a specific parts for maker some of you

might expect that everyone will be happy with this kind of New Idea new direction for maker but that wasn't true actually there were a lot of internal fights and Wars between the the biggest mkr holders but eventually this proposal passed and now end game is being developed and we we have seen the first uh kind of release of Sky which is a new brand of maker and uh yeah it's just the first step and there is a additional steps and which we'll see in in the future F okay and we're going to dive into we're going to talk about sky and all these steps and so endgame started in got voted

through started in 2022 and we'll talk about what's working and what's not working uh but first I want to go to one of we talked about maker having $300 million in Revenue at the beginning of the show so let's talk about how the heck do they make all this Revenue it's incredible the amount of Revenue they have and one of the key ways they make this revenue is from investing in us treasuries uh which for a decentralized protocol to go invest in US treasuries is an interesting decision what was the thinking behind the move to invest in us treasuries what and what results did it lead to again maker very soon realized that defy real and overall crypto sentiment is going

down and so are their revenue because they were pretty much um making money from Leverage in the system and when was is this I would say like 2022 2023 because def fire yields went down and trade fire yields on us treasuries because central banks were raising rates so the the yields on us treasuries went up so make realize that OPP opportunity and yeah they started around 2022 something but yeah they pretty much were able to tap into that offchain yield which was very interesting and even though some people didn't really like

that because what that mean is that die was at some point backed by us treasuries which is obviously centralized thing which people didn't really like but if if you look at it from a investor perspective you are happy because that was very smart move and kind of inevitable I I don't know how maker would look like if they wouldn't do it back then so from an invest perspective I was really happy they do it they did it and it it made them a ton of profits so was a good choice but then you you hear the other side of people saying

like hey we like maker but it's not decentralized anymore because it's begged by centralized us treasuries or centralized US Dollars like usdc from cir right so like I can see both arguments here but I feel like those people who are like very ideological um thinking about the world that everything should be decentralized and super sensorship resistant are kind of losing track of what businesses are about they about making money right so like I would say they should put all these ideologies

aside and focus on what's the best to make a business and I think maker did the right move and tap into that opportunity back then and and now they are like again like going down and that that share of real world assets on on maker balance sheet is going down because central banks are now decreasing rate lowering the rates so the the yields in defi will start to go up and actually they are already much higher today than like yield in TR addal yield for finance so yeah that's what's happening today and like if we are looking back makeer did a right move I think yeah and and it's clearly did the right move because as you mentioned so this is in 2022 2023 bare Market they're

not getting a lot of Revenue within defi they see that they can get four to five perc yield just from us treasuries super safe super simple no risk to that they take3 billion dollars they throw it in us treasuries and they make 150 million annually in return from that if you're an investor you're like amazing thank you well done you're taking care of the business but the challenge with it is it did lead to their balance sheet being pretty heavily at one point 65% was in us treasuries which obviously a lot of the decentralization Maxis got a little bit upset about now we have a decentralized stable coin a decentralized business that is trying to

live these ethos and they're becoming quite centralized this is the point of the story where Spark enters the picture uh can you explain how this new spark protocol fits into Maker's strategy and and why it's going to be such a game changer we need to understand the maker and their Core Business was you can come to maker deposit eth and borrow against your eth then later on they added Bitcoin and few more assets but you can always just uh take a loan against one one collateral so either eth or Bitcoin but they also realize that there are some people who might want to just lend

some assets but they don't want they don't necessarily need to borrow assets against those so think of a like you know people are using a but not everyone is borrowing from a some people are just landing on a because you can land your stable coins and get some yeld or you can land e and get some yield on top of your e so that's awesome so they were like okay we basically want to bring more people into maker ecosystem but they are not going to land to to maker because we do not provide that feature so we might need to do something similar to to a so spark was launched and what they do was they forked other contracts

it was a friendly Fork like spark is still paying some money back to AA because they just kind of copy pasted their smart contracts but now what it means that people can can come and land or borrow from spark and Spark is on on the back end spark is kind of topping into that liquidity which maker provides so like whenever user wants to borrow from spark spark communicates with maker and new die is Meed against that collateral and that's how they make money and it's bringing kind of more Revenue lines to the maker because yeah this kind of lending borrowing Market is

pretty huge so it makes sense for them to expand their revenue lines even more and we're going to talk about um Spark's relationship with maker uh in a few minutes uh in this episode because it is an interesting relationship but basically you can think about spark as sort of a spin-off of maker it's a business that was started by maker and is now SP spinning off in its its own business essentially they call it a subow or a star but we don't need to get into the jargon uh okay um you love maker as we talked about at the beginning because of the fundamentals and we talked about revenue and I think you know you just can't underpin how many especially right now like in crypto right now we're we're you

know this weekend was nuts I'm sure you were checking your phone all weekend so was I like prices are going crazy nothing makes sense cardano is up like 80% cardano like a a ghost chain a dead chain that has nothing going on it I'm sorry to all of the cardano F holders that are listening actually I'm not sorry you guys are all probably pumped because cardano's up and it's doing well everything is up everything's going great and when you when you have that happening what what happens is a lot of people just start to think that exactly this every token is going to go up which in the eup fork stage of the bull run that we're in right now for the next few months I don't know how long it's going to last you're probably right everything probably will go up but it is nice to

when you're thinking about your Investments to think about hey let's invest in things that have real fundamentals because what that means is when everything goes down the things with real fundamentals don't go down as much they go down less because they are real businesses that are going to survive the bare whereas a meme coin might just disappear the same way a lot of nft projects disappear so let's take a look at the fundamentals behind maker and in particular their revenue because I think their revenue tells a very interesting story can you break down the different revenue streams that maker has yeah sure so here looking at this table the first one is spark so that's something I just described it's pretty

much something like a uh where people can land and borrow and at the back end they use maker then there are cash real world assets which us give us the amount of Revenue coming from each one of these things as oh yeah so from spark it's 120 mil almost so it's pretty significant amount right then there are cash reward assets which are us treasuries pretty much and it's 50 59 million annualized it's a yeah maker buying us treasuries the deal is like 4.5% or something like that then there are stable coins which are kind of in a

special World which is lending all these stable coins to coinbase Prime and they have they have a deal with coinbase h which pays maker for four point uh around 4% annualized again so and it's bringing home 46 million it's also pretty good but like be aware that those cash real world assets as well as stable coins the project that yield will go down because central banks will lower rates right so these these like over also think about the the the

distribution that maker is making Revenue today will like go down from these real world assets and stable coins which are kind of packed to real um to the real rates in Trader from Finance but spark and core will just go up because the yields in defi rails are now picking up and if you look at atina or a you can find like 15 20% that's pretty insane so so the gap between yields on us treasuries and the yields in defi are just going to like differentiate a lot and it's going to bring like more

Arbitrage opportunities and like if you are talking to your neighbor you might probably say hey how much you are earning on your savings account and they will be like hey two 3% and you'll be like H I'm making 15% you know obviously it's not risk free but I believe that if today there are already opportunities which are pretty much um there is always risk but the risks are very much reduced and mitigated and they are close to zero um and then there is the last one H it's core and that's that's how maker started basically you can come come in with eth and Bitcoin and just borrow against it

so that's that's their Core Business they started with and it's bringing around 75 million today it's amazing you have a business that has four steady streams of income very well distributed again another reason why we like maker so much so well established and income that can withstand both the bull market and the bare market so you can swing in either direction here and get the best yield depending upon what's going on with the market okay let's take a look at maker in the end is a is a stable Coin Company first as we've talked about um when you one of the Frameworks that you guys really like at milro Pro is this concept

of uh the Northstar which is like figuring out what is the most important metric that matters to us when we're looking at a token from an investment perspective um what is the Northstar for maker and how are they doing at achieving that so we are looking at circulating supply for maker because think of maker as as an asset manager which has a minting facility and the more dye or usds you can mint the more Revenue you can bring in right so like yeah we are just checking this one metric which is pretty crucial and we would like to see like

more Supply over time and now we are around yeah 5.34 billion which is great but we we would like to see like much more and we think that maker will have 10 billion plus next year okay so we think it's going to double that's exciting uh so at least you you mentioned at least yeah I know your numbers are always so conservative Martin which is uh which is also a good thing great to have somebody who's thinking reasonable and not making ridiculous claims as most people in the space are going to make especially over the next few months so maker has when we talk about their products they have two stable coins are their main products

they have D and they have usds which launched just a few months ago uh and their stable coins are doing something that no other stable coins are doing which you mentioned which which is giving yield can you give us a breakdown of these two table coins and explain what they do maker is kind of trying to compete with others because they decided that they are going to distribute the yield to the holders right because today if you hold USD C or usdt you are not getting any yield you just have stable coin which is p to $1 and that's it but you know if you if you are from developed country you you you

you don't really mind and you don't have any incentives to do that but like imagine that there is a billion people living in Africa and they have average inflation 177% so you have strong incentives to use stable coins and you don't really care if they is sealed or not like at least the first step right you just happy that you can get exposure to stable something St like stable coins which is p to US dollars so like yeah I feel like sometimes people don't realize how great the stable coins are this is like if nothing this is amazing and stable coins are making the world a

better place right and then maker decided to compete with those Giants on a e basis so they are making a ton of money and what if they can pass some part of that Revenue to the holders because maker is only able to make money because people are using their stable coin so they are trying to compete by offering embedded yield in their stable coins so if you hold s die which is State version of die or if you hold uh s usds which is State version of their usds then you you get automatically yielded and right now it's

for D it's 5.5% and for usds it's uh 6.5 so there is a 1% change like usds is 1% higher than D and the reason usds is higher is because they are trying to incentivize people to hold usds right now because it just launched a few months ago already over a billion in Supply in just a few months which which is been amazing to see um so I mean incredible it feels as you said stable coins are on their own are if that was the all that crypto ever created that would be a massive win for the world um but that's most stable coins right now do not share

yield with their holders um but maker is doing that they're sharing yield to holder I mean it's it's a no-brainer in my mind why would you if you're going to hold a stable coin why wouldn't you hold uh stake die or stake usds but um it's not all sunshine and Rainbow for for maker as we said at the beginning they have their challenges I want to make sure everyone understands their challenges um you mentioned that there's four challenges that they're facing in this report that you wrote recently can you briefly explain maybe give us what are these four challenges and then let's briefly explain each the first one is the new stable coin from maker is usds and the contract is upgradeable

which means that they can do new new changes to that contract and maker signal that they plan to enable freeze function which is like they can freeze your assets basically you know if there is some illegal thing going on or I don't know some government is pushing you to freeze these assets they will just probably need to comply and do it and like the critics say that maker just enabled that without really thinking about it so like because today if you if you are using this new stable coin from maker it's still using

at the back end die contracts anyway and like if if you enable freeze function on usds which is that new stable coin but it's still using D on the back end it still doesn't make you kind of compliant with all the rules that are coming into crypto so it was kind of they say it was kind of just quick thought hey let's be compliant we just enable this and it's GNA be all solved out but that's not the case really and um yeah I don't really have any expertise here but I I I'm very curious to see how this is going to play out um so that was one thing that people are not happy about um the other thing

is that Sky migration and new brand reveal wasn't as successful as expected and we can measure it by people not converting their mkr to Sky I think there is just like 7% of mkr was converted into Sky and even like if you look at coin geeko or coin market cap or if you go to centralized exchanges they don't recognize sky at all so it means like was it really successful because like just 6% of all tokens are sky but the rest is still maker so what's going on

how should we move forward it's still kind of question and those are active discussions in maker Community where to go from here and what to do with this situation because now there are two tokens and like if I want to invest in maker should I buy Sky should I buy maker like which token will have votes in the future you know this kind of stuff so it needs to be figured out soon obviously then there is um also um rumors that Ron is pretty much doing all the decision himself and he is just surrounded by people who are um saying yes to everything he says they never

challenge him they don't provide like the other side so there is kind of no feedback from the market but I think it's changing and maybe run at some point um start realizing that okay maybe I need to listen more like the the the broader feedback and like everyone else in the community because like this is the feedback you you need and this is what you should be looking for like you might have a great visions and everything but if people don't want to move to Sky there are some reasons so maybe you should kind of rethink like where should be be heading because the community is giving you a signal hey people don't want Sky they want to stay

with maker they are happy with maker they were happy all the time with maker so what's going on it's a tough position though but at the same at the same time I say like if the management or leadership of any projects is decentralized way too much it can cause a lot of slowdowns and lack of Direction and like you know inefficiencies in the processes and so like I'm not sure um as I said I feel that there are some changes happening on the back end and Ru is now um seen on different podcasts on Twitter on Forum on Discord you can ask him questions actually and he he will

reply probably and uh yeah I think this is changing and I think having one person kind of in charge it can be very powerful but you need to make sure that this guy has some kind of kind of limits and listen the feedback and then it can be very very successful and probably the most effective way how to build those kind of stuff yeah and the last part was um because right now like 95% of stable coins total Market stable coins are stable coins without any yield which is giving us some right so maybe

people don't really care about yield so why should maker be kind of tupping into this new unexplored market when we clearly see that people don't really care that much about yield maybe because there is 170 billion in stable coins which do not offer any yield at all so is it really goingon to play out well for maker that they are this trying to differentiate that they will be like stable coin with h you know Superior yield we don't know but we are yet to see but like my view is I believe that today we see like those Giants usds usdt

and the maker aena fra those kind of centralized ones which are Distributing part of their revenue with the chocol holders we we think that those will kind of converge and they will become the same thing that USD usdc and also usdt will at some point need to share some part of their revenues with their token holders but the problem is that they are only able to tap into us treasuries or like real world yields basically they are they can't really tap into defi rails so it's still giving you know maker and a 9 and those kind of guys kind of advantage over those but they are huge they have a lot of network

effects they are accepted everywhere they have on Rams off Rams so it's really it's really hard competition though but if that's true and Market will eventually demand stable coins all of course assuming that security risks are managed and make sure that they comply with all the security standards that are used in crypto you know so um yeah we are yet to see it but like for me why I love maker is because I'm user of maker I borrow against my eth and uh I use and hold stable coins of maker because they give me a decent yield and that's why I'm using it I

don't use usdc or usdt they don't give me anything but I want yield so I'm using maker product yeah and I think what's interesting is right now most of stablecoin usage is in countries where don't have access to a currency as stable as the US dollar right like their currency is inflating you mentioned this before so for them holding the U having access to a US dollar is just a win they don't care about the yield but long term once we get more crypto rails into trafi once we have more people on chain those people are going to want yield and that's where longterm we believe that

their um savings account strategy could work out now there's also a few catalysts that there's a reason that at the beginning you said you know maker has 300 million in annualized Revenue right now uh but you believe it could get to a billion in the next year can you talk us through some of the catalysts that you see for maker and why you think they can grow so much in the next year yeah sure so just a few days ago uh sparked economics were released and what it means for maker is that maker will will have pretty strong incentives for the next well let's say 10 years but within next two years 50% of spark tokens will

be distributed to either maker holders or maker users so if if we do some basic assumptions that I don't know spark will launch around two billion FDB it means that 500 Millions will be used per year as incentives for maker participants that's pretty huge so now like if 500 million is going to enter the market and you want access to any of that yield you will need to either hold maker or use maker product which is pretty insane right and then obviously there are things I was talking earlier

about which is central banks are rolling lowering rates so the the gap between Trad addition yields and crypto yields will even grow you also you also talked about maker is expanding to other chains yeah which yeah that's right is huge because right now it's really only on ethereum another thing is maker right now is available just on uh eum main ad but who uses these days at minute right uh so they really need to expand to other chains and to other chains I I primarily mean Solana and Bas because probably those two chains will get the

most adoption and new users in the upcoming months so if maker is not available there that's missing opportunity right and that's something they can't really they can't miss it like the next 12 months will be super beneficial and huge for crypto and if maker is not able to tap into that opportunity and catch a new user base growing on Solana new user base growing on Bas that's gonna be a huge fall but they are well aware and I think make I think maker is going into base in like in few few few weeks yeah and yeah Sol of course it's Solana is the best

performing these days and like since the beginning of the year it was just Solana hype right so maybe it's going to be like Sol year I don't know but yeah Sol is cooking something really useful and people love it um and I don't want to get into details like what I think about mem coins and all the activity that's there because of meme coins but yeah maker needs to be on Solana for sure as well so just expanding to different chains then the mcro conditions will improve and will just emphasize the yield that maker is able to offer and then the incentives which will make like a lot of motivation for people to use maker or hold maker so those are pretty

strong catalysts for maker for sure yeah very bullish setup okay before we wrap here Martin can you give us an idea of what are your expectations for maker in this cycle even though I don't like do expectations and set the price targets I'll just say it all depends on how maker will be able to manage all the challenges I was talking about earlier and it will result how much revenue they are able to make and generate right but we are pretty bullish and we think that maker can still generate about uh more than one billion in Revenue in the next year so it's just like 3x from these levels it it it's not

that super optimistic you know I think it's pretty pretty conservative to be honest and some guys are expecting maker to generate 1.5 billion even so uh we are yet to see it but if that's the case I don't I don't know why maker shouldn't be traded around 10 billion FDB which would which would be price-wise 6X from here so now we are like 1.5k so maker could be traded around 9 to 10K and I I still think that those are still kind of very realistic expectations yeah because

those expectations are based on fundamentals that doesn't include the speculative hype that also will likely happen in the next few months is more people are going to be talking about a lot of tokens in the space a lot of new people a lot of retail are coming in what are they going to look to buy especially a lot of like the institutional trafi investors those types are going to look to buy the tokens that have real fundamentals behind them which could push maker even higher so I think 6X is on the low end of what we could see this cycle but I think the main thing here with maker and this trade is if you guys are getting involved in maker if you're holding maker this is a trade in a more on your um the side of your portfolio that

focuses on the fundamental side this isn't your like fun money where you're going to try to go get a 100x you want to go try get a 100x sure go buy a meme coin or something like that with a little bit of money but this fits in more of the ri less risky side of your portfolio and the side that really could see more of a consistent or a reliable return in in the next 12 months Martin any final thoughts to share with us before you let you go yeah let let me just say that I'm trying to model this out and using very realistic expectations and projections but what can pretty easily happen is that maker will catch next narrative and it will go

just nuts and but that's something I cannot really kind of project in my estimations right so I rather be more realistic and just looking at the numbers so it still makes sense to me and like I know why I'm holding mkr or sky and I I sleep well because you know I I have some reasons and I have something to make it up when something go wrong but like price-wise maker can do like much more but I don't know like the upside is obviously unlimited so at some point it can be traded like really crazy valuations but yeah I rather tend to be like more grounded and have more you know grounded expectations and then

be surprise than the opposite well we appreciate your perspective Martin Everybody thanks so much for listening in today today ended up being a little bit longer episode than usual but there was so much value in it we just had to give it all to you guys I want to know how do you feel about maker let us know if you guys are holding maker if you're bullish if you're looking at spark as well and coming up in a few weeks we're actually going to have Sam mcferson the CEO of spark come on the show to talk about what they're doing over there and dive deeper into that also if you want more access to Martin you guys should go pro because Martin is in our Discord and available to all of our Pro Pro members 247 I mean maybe not exactly 247 Martin but he's available so if you have

questions about your portfolio or your Investments Go Pro today hit the link in the show notes and you can get direct access Martin Martin thanks so much again for joining us have a wicked awesome day everybody as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is

for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much forist listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day