🚨LIVE: Summer Bounce Continues? STRC, HYPE, AERO, ZEC Strength. Perps Trend & Extended, RISE Call In

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Heat. Heat. 17

floor. We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back. >> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding it to my library every day. >> Potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev Connect day one here. I'll be testing from space.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity,

the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish. >> He said it. He finally said it. >> So bullish. >> It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Corola is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to

the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up. industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say.

>> I'm bullish. >> He said it. He finally said it. >> So bullish. It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat.

Heat. Heat. Corola is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to

the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up. Zoom out. The institutions aren't

coming. They're simply here. Taste the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. Taste the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. BTC 64K. What's going on, guys? Welcome back to the rollup. Good morning, Shine. Greg, Freedom Guy, Edward, the whole crew is here today. Rob, what's going on? Good to have you back,

man. Glad we got your light set up. Um >> maybe we get you uh another light or two, a plant. >> Uh there Andy, but I'm feeling good. I'm back from Peru. Uh missed you on the show yesterday. Uh plenty to talk about there. >> How many floors in that building? >> Robbie's on the first floor. You know that's where he belongs in a little shoe box there. He's on the first floor. We're on the 77th. My 77th. Guys, welcome back to the rollup. watching the roll up from the tokenization tower, the Nest broadcasting live from the financial capital of the world. Today is July 7th. Guys, welcome back to the show. As always, powered by our friends at Plume, the Nest onchain asset management, tokenized real world assets.

Visit plume.org to learn more. Rob, what's going on, man? We got a good show today. >> Uh, we got a great show today. We have our first guest that's going to be coming up soon. We've got a bunch of news to go over. Uh, went on a little bit of a robotics rant. People were talking about 20-year time horizons yesterday. That's feeling good. Look, market is looking promising. Um, Zcash near hyperlquid all-time highs. Um, yeah, no complaints on my side. My entire country, my entire county has two traffic lights. I couldn't imagine what the New York traffic hell would be like.

I do enjoy that. I only noticed Robbie is definitely half cut into that intro rant. 100% adds the charm to it. Nest Army. Nest warriors. What What do you like, Rob? Rollup army. Is this the roll-up army? >> Ooh, I like rollup army. Feels a little bit like a militia. And uh I think we've got some bull market warriors on our hands. >> Yeah, >> these guys are ready. These guys are ready. >> I hope everyone's ready for a four-year cycle. And we're just getting prepared because we're going to see some disbelief pretty soon. >> Guys, we've got an amazing show today.

Uh we are from the tokenization tower markets weather live. We're going to do that after the first two guests. We have two PERPS protocols coming into the uh show today. We've got Rise and Extended. Extended just got a really good round done by E Toro um and others. And Rise is crushing it on the >> freedom guy bought some Zama last night. Love to see that. >> Love that. I do think that the privacy narrative is going to continue to proliferate. Zama is a core piece of it. >> Pet peeve. Why are there two nests currently trending? I don't know.

>> Yeah, I don't know. >> Actually, I'm going to look. >> Yeah. One's on Salana and one's the hyperlquid one. >> Yep. >> All right, guys. We've got Russ. He is uh the founder of Extended. Extended is a pretty prominent perex who just raised a good bit of capital from um some pretty prominent investors. Um, obviously we've been covering Hyperlquid and Lighter a ton and kind of been leading this fundamentals crave, you know, kind of mania. I guess it's not even a mania. It's just like undervalued assets doing well. And so now we're getting a lot of inbound from founders who are also building really good undervalued technology that's doing, you know, actual things in the space. So without further ado, guys,

let's get wrestling up on the show and get this show on the road. He is the founder of extended e Toro extended and more. Russ, welcome to the show. >> Hey guys. >> Yo, how are you man? >> Well, good, thanks. How are you? Thanks for inviting me. >> Absolutely. Russ, it's good to have you, man. I think we had you um when extended first launched, but it's good to have you back. Um you guys have been building amidst the per mania. Feels like this is like where a ton of the attention is.

We've got stable coins, tokenization, prediction markets, but perpetuals is a centerpiece of this cycle, if you will, or the current attention market. Um, give us a sense of what it's been like building in the purse market over the last few months from where when we had you, I think it was uh a few months ago, maybe six months ago, to now you guys have been doing incredible work. Tell us a little bit about the journey. >> Yeah, sure. Look just a quick note uh before we start that nothing I say today is investment or financial advice right and it's not a promotion or recommendation to trade extended is not available in all jurisdictions right so if you're somewhere we don't operate this isn't directed at you right having that said happy to happy to start look

for the past six months yeah I think I last time we guys talked was approximately 6 months ago right since then We were mainly focused on the product and the partnerships, right? So from the product standpoint, we basically released the tokenized vault, right? Which allows users to deposit funds into the vault and then use them as the collateral on the exchange. We've also released the multiasset collateral. We've released spot markets. We essentially closed our fundraising with it Toro jump and Albra as well as effectively our building building the partnership on the product side of things with it right so it was quite intense um quite a lot of intense work

but I would say it's all for good right and we have another couple of announcements to come in the coming uh weeks right uh so we're quite excited and positive overall Yeah. >> Awesome, man. Um, when it comes to kind of thinking about the purpose market that you guys have been, um, you know, building out, we have seen a lot of people get excited about the price action of hyperlquid and lighter and a lot of our people in our community are very are very bullish on these two. Uh, what makes extended different from a product perspective, from a user perspective? What is different about extended that is a unique feature? And kind of like examples here being people are basically saying that lighter ZK technology is far superior to hyperlquid

technology as well as the way that that order matching and order streaming is done. Um you know in terms of there's basically a a there's different types of orders and there's different types of um kind of like market making systems between the two as well as kind of like the tech in general. When it comes to extended, where do you guys kind of match up here? What's your unique set of features? And if you don't mind just speaking up a bit, I think the audience is uh finding it a little hard to hear. >> Uh yeah, sure. Look, um let me cover two top like three topics probably, right?

Tech, product and distribution, right? So on the tech side of things, our existing architecture is basically very similar to what lighter has, right? With the only difference that they have a let's say private ZK rollup and we run on a public ZK chain, right? uh because basically extended is settling on starknet. Uh but besides that our architectures are very similar. All right. Now, what we've also briefly announced today is that now we're building to our target state where we will effectively have a decentralized uh network, right? That will be running the matching engine the sequencer triggering of liquidations,

right? But we will continue settling on the public ZK, right? Effectively in the target state we'll have I would say a combination of hyperlquids and lighters architectures right where the settlement the custody the validity of transactions the verification right will remain on the public uh ZK chain while the matching and the order remittance right will be done by our own network of validators right because if you think about hyperlquid Effectively they have their own blockchain where they have the execution of transactions which is the matching and they have the settlement on

one chain right and then you have lighter where they have essentially a centralized matching engine and then validations of the uh trading logic on chain and all the settlement on again um effective via roll up to ethereum one right and we'll have a com combination of those two right >> and how >> that will be tax side of things >> yeah please go ahead Yeah, look on the product um essentially it's pretty simple right we are trying to cover all things trading right so by now we have multiasset collateral with yieldbearing um collaterals right with WBTC E and other types of collateral supported we have spot trading we have

per threadf and crypto markets right and now we're focused on effectively launching the RFQ based markets We are essentially in the target state the most liquid markets will be supported via order book based model right and the longtail of both crypto and RWA markets will be supported by the RF model and we believe that we are probably best positioned right to offer the widest coverage of both crypto and uh Trefy uh out of Qbase markets on the longtail list of assets for both, right? Just uh because of the partnerships and the

investors that we have. >> Yeah. When it comes to the customer demands that you're hearing given e Toro as an investor, right? Like there's lots of technical improvements that we've seen across the entire per landscape comes to order matching, order settlement. You you kind of talked through how extended might be somewhat of a hybrid model or some somewhere in the middle between hyperlquid and lighter. I'm curious a little bit more on, you know, what someone like an e Toro is demanding. How in the weeds are they on order matching, order settlement, right? We obviously heard from, you know, Hyperlid how they were sort of built on the back of FTX collapsing and it was important to them to kind of have this thing that was, you know, not not really able to be shut

down. Lighter, right, is kind of prioritizing a different set of features. If you are thinking with your investors in mind and e Toro is a major investor, how much are you building for their feature set and what are some of the prioritized features that someone like an e Toro traditional financial institution is looking for? >> Yes. Look and that's basically the third point of the differentiation right that we are aiming to push is that essentially we want to have more partnerships like the one we have with Vidor right um and we do believe that a lot of threat brokers right are just basically going into define there will be much more partnerships similar to the one we have to cut in the future um

essentially to answer your question I would say the due diligence process with took approximately 6 months Right. And uh we've expected it to be much quicker, right? But they really went deep across all of the aspects of the perex, right? From the security setup to how the matching works, right? To the regular regulatory road map and effectively all things which are important to run the business, right? I wouldn't say that we are prioritizing any of the features for them specifically, right? However, we I would say are adjusting our road map based on the questions which they ask right

because sometimes they ask certain questions which you think okay that's actually a very good u way to think about the given problem right probably should address that right and that spans from I don't know security to the way we offer product and the way we market it to the users >> and one more question on this partnership but thinking broadly about the integration of DeFi tools, perpetuals, contracts into you know consumerf facing financial applications that are on the scale of you know millions if not billions. How do you see the adoption and integration process going? You spoke a little bit about the feature set, but given that you know someone like an e Toro has

significant distribution, do you think the path for the financial tooling financial system that we have on chain is it effectively like the backend for the financial systems that the consumers are already accustomed to? Like do you think we're going to follow the generic path of you know uh trady in the front end and DeFi in the back end? Is that sort of the the the way to think about this? >> Look, in my like it's probably a bit too simplistic, >> right? A bit too simplistic. But I do think that we're going into that direction, right? So I do think that blockchain as a technology will be a way will likely effectively scale as being a

way to store and uh transmit data right for financial applications, customer applications, etc., etc., Right. Um then we'll definitely see more userfacing retail brokers coming into DeFi, right? And coming into per especially with the view to offer 24/7 markets, right? Like even talking about the Taurus. So today they've basically announced a revamp of their application, revamp of their strategy and they were talking about two things, right? Aify, right? So I do think that this narrative and this trend will continue right and

we can tell probably the same about Robin Hood with their recent announcement right we are we've talked to almost I think we've by now we've talked to the majority of at least European retail brokers right and I would say that all of them are looking into DeFi right obviously the degree of their knowledge and the stage where they are differs a right from player to player, but all of them are thinking about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Russ, on that front, right, when you're thinking about the product and um you know, kind of all the growth that you guys have seen, I'm curious kind of what what that uh stats look like from the uh revenue side as well as from the user side. kind of can

give us a bit of a sense of what the fees that you guys are generating are you know how you guys are generating fees what that looks like comparatively in the market and um you know generally what the business trajectory here is of extended >> yes look all of the data is obviously public rights in terms of the uh volumes I would say we're generating somewhere in between probably 300 to 1.5 billion of volume at least for the past six months That was the range. In terms of the fees, it's somewhere in between 70 to I don't know 300k a day, right? Which is basically in line with the volume. As for the users, it's probably around I would say 15 to 20,000 weekly active

users, right? Um in terms of the trend, we've basically seen the majority of the the biggest uptake in the usage was in January, February, right? We saw a bit of the uh decline since then, but by now our metrics are quite uh quite steady and stable. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I mean that's you guys are doing 300k days, >> right? This is probably the biggest days right?

>> Yeah. 75 70 to 300k days. I mean, per are one of the best business models in all of crypto. I mean, it's insane. Um you know you guys are pre-token right and a lot of our community is you know we've traded on hyperlquid and lighter before they launched you trading on variational you know excited about these tokens excited because you can take the token and actually make a a real use case for it like you can have a you can have a real fundamental cash flowing asset because of the you know just because of the revenue that you guys are generating and this is like changing the entire base like the rise of Perpetexes is changing the entire framework for how people are thinking about tokens.

Obviously, like Hyperlid is like the golden goose here, but it's not even just Hyperl. It's just there's a set of assets now that are on the back of a really sustainable and strong onchain business. And people are wanting to invest in these assets over pretty much anything because they take the token holder and they make them a first class citizen. and the token is the equity and they know that they're going to get this consistent buyback and they know that this business is going to keep growing. And so when you're thinking about the future of extended and kind of thinking about how how to scale this business the token side just curious any thoughts on how this how pers have changed the token model for the industry and how you're

thinking about it more broadly. Yeah, look as you've mentioned I think um Hyperlquid is the golden standard right and uh they've basically set the standard in the industry not only for the perexes but also for the other for the other uh projects right what I think is also important to add that besides the strong revenue model right there is also a real utility for all the um perex and exchange tokens probably right because effectively for us We'll have let's say our own validator set right which means that we'll have stakers validators etc right then besides that obviously when you run an exchange and

you have a token right like token can give discounts to fees etc etc right which basically is a way to revenue share again but still it's these are all additional utilities which perexes and exchanges probably can give to the token holders right for which other businesses business would struggle to do so, right? But I generally agree with you that specific in the case of extended for example, we obviously see our token being closely aligned, right, with the growth of our ecosystem.

>> Russell, what do you think is going to be the differentiator? Like we've kind of talked about the power law as it pertains to some of these different market segments, burps included. You know, there's going to be winners. Those winners are going to continue via network effects to to increase and accelerate their lead. But do you think it's going to be partnerships? Do you think it's going to be a technical moat? Do you think it's going to be some sort of wealth effect through a token that is going to continue to compound? What do you think is going to differentiate you know the sustainable good perexes from the ones that you know might might slip behind?

>> Yes. Look, I think fundamentally there are only four aspects right for any products and any exchange, right? One is the quality of the product, right? Second is liquidity. Third is the marks that you can offer and fourth is the distribution right. I would say that the first three ones they are a must right without them you will not be able to achieve achieve anything right. So fundamentally the only differentiation in the long term is is the distribution right and every perex will have to find their own way right to acquire users.

Obviously, hyperlquid is now the go-to venue for all the users on chain right and us lighter variational other perex trading venues they are trying to get a bit of the market share right from the existing users right uh but realistically at extended we are more focused right on the distribution via partners right that's our this is not something that we have today right but this is something that we're building towards >> given that there's a there's a niche depending upon this distribution in this market segment for instance you know we know that per typically stuck to cryptonative assets

but now there's going to be more of a breach into RWAs we heard Robin Hood's announcement they're very focused on RWA and as you go into new market segments you end up with different paths for new distribution and so what is it like what is the next frontier what is the next asset class that you're planning on offering? Are you looking to, you know, obviously started mostly from crypton native assets. Are you guys looking into commodities, looking into RWAs? Is there a new asset class that you're planning on diving into? And then what are the distribution channels for that asset class?

>> Yeah, look, one in terms of the new asset classes, right? I think I've mentioned it briefly but effectively I think uh within the next couple of weeks we'll have the widest offering of rwas among the perexes right we'll continue scale yes and we'll continue scaling right >> um so basically in terms of the distribution channels for us right there effectively two types of channels that we see right one is the existing onchain users and for them we just have to offer a differentiated product, right? Which has to be with a good liquidity, which has to be stable, etc., etc., right? We do believe that we have some of the

differentiation features for those users, right? Like the widest offering of RWAs, which we'll have soon, the yield bearing, collateral, etc., etc., right? And now the second distribution channel for us is the uh partnership similar to one we'll have with it, right? Where effectively will be integrated into the Zango wallet. um and through that wallet effectively get access to their users, right? And the idea is to simply scale those partnerships right? >> Yeah. And and so what makes extended well suited to support the breadth of assets that you're talking about like you you know you're you're talking about you just made a pretty bold claim and I want to dig into it that extended is going to have the widest breadth of

asset RWA assets of any perp decks. Where is the current perp landscape lacking? like what is currently underserved that you will now launch and why is extended well suited to launch these new assets? Yeah, look um it's not that the like I don't think that the market is underserved per se, right? But um essentially if you take trade XY Z or if you take I know variational has been super active in listing RWS and lighter right um I think they all have sub 50 markets right in the first iteration of the launch that we want to have we are

aiming to launch approximately 100 markets right 100 RWA markets which will be which will continue skating essentially what positions us well to launch those markets is the partnerships that we have, right? Because if you look at our past cap table, we've only chosen to go with the strategic partners who can bring something on the table, right? >> Effectively, we have the largest liquidity providers, right? And we have one of the largest distribution partners, right? And that gives us that places us in a good position, right? To effectively have the widest offering of RWA markets. And I mean the third >> look something might change in two I

don't know for next two weeks and maybe I know I predict it launches a thousand of new markets and that won't be true but that's at least the the ambition that we have right. >> Well no I mean I think um the the RFQ model is crucial here for the expansion of list >> and I don't think Hyperlid's going to go down that route. I think they could like like I think the difference is hip liquid is looking to be like price discovery on chain. >> I feel like yeah the battle that extended and variational are basically fighting right now is um for maximum amount of of depth on the maximum amount of breadth of markets and I think those are two different almost like two

different visions for what they're trying to do. Look, yes, but it doesn't mean like probably you're right, hyperlid will likely not launch out of cube based markets, right? But the reality is that their text act allows to do it, right? Okay. >> If you have order book based markets, right? It's very simple to launch out of cube based markets, right? >> Yeah. Um, >> I think the fact remains here like the what there's a first mover advantage to some of these markets because the liquidity effects tend to compound and so if you can be the first to launch some of these RWA markets liquidity will start to acrue to your listings and and then people will get to know like okay

if I want to trade you know this RWA then they'll come to extended and so then you get more liquidity you end up compounding that. Can you give us a sense of what sorts of RWAs we can expect over the next couple weeks from extended? >> Look guys, it will be announced so soon, right? Just wait for the announcement. >> Yeah, man. I mean that RF model, >> but it will be commodities, equities, everything right? >> You can watch any listing with good liquidity with the RFU model. You don't really need a whole lot of depth because you can just source it across basically solvers. So very cool wrestling >> and what's also important in our RFQ model that it will be open to everyone.

So anyone will be able to effectively quote right. >> Great. Got you Russell man. Uh just kind of closing thoughts from you on you know the the journey that you've been on and with extended and kind of the vision where you guys are going from here and you know this being a part of this mega trend that is Perks. Um just kind of close us out here. Yeah, look, it's been a great journey, right? I think we've done quite a lot, but there is much more to do, right? And we're effectively looking forward to take that challenge, right? And we believe the market is uh growing, right?

And uh the competition is also growing, right? But honestly, it's it's good to have great competitors in the space, right? Because they push you having a better product, right? So um yeah basically super positive on our side both the perception of the market and uh on our plans. Thanks a lot for inviting me. >> Thanks always. Thanks Russ. Congrats. >> Congrats on the launch. >> Thank you guys. Thanks buddy. >> See you next time. >> Cheers >> man. This space just keeps growing. Just keeps growing. I mean there's so many opportunities. I mean it's it's it's uh I feel stupid for passing on variational at 500 million.

>> Ah you're not >> cuz lighter at 2.6 bill FTV unlocks are going to come in the next I don't know what like 6 months maybe uh 3 months and I mean lighter to $10 feels like possible. >> You're not stupid man. Come on. There's so many of these out here it's tough to know which ones are going to reach distribution. I think perhaps you can just >> so huge and it's going to continue to get bigger. >> But isn't that the case is just bet on them all. >> Like that's what Dragonfly has done.

They just hold hype. Hib shilling hype. He he owns a ton of um they own a ton of lighter and they own a ton of variation. They led both those rounds and they might have even led they might have even done extended >> at a $500 million market cap. I could see uh more of an argument to just kind of take a wide cast net approach because at 500 mil like these are companies that have already reached some sort of product market fit and they're going to continue to outperform as you get deeper into lower valuations though >> if you cast a wide >> for sure I agree >> you know I like I'm not trying to fund the

>> yeah I'm not trying to fund the untouched unused ninth per deck. But like yeah, I don't know. That was just a bare market opportunity uh that should have just should have probably taken. >> I think now we're also just we've reached some sort of critical mass where hyperlid has almost helped the rest of the market realize the opportunity set with perks. >> Correct. >> And there's going to be multiple winners. I so yes there is going to be multiple winners but I think the question is like where are most of the winners going to come from? Are they going to come from like CME launching a perpetuals product which they're inevitably going to do and

like these other derivative exchanges with the distribution or are we going to get the classical like innovators are going to innovate faster than they the the the incumbents can innovate? >> Yeah, >> they're going to innovate faster but are they going to reach distribution? I think some of them have gotten some sort of exit velocity which is great. Um, but where are the winners going to come from? Like we may only have a few come from the onchain native builder class and then the rest of the winners might come from the traditional class and we're >> I mean look, we're breaking into that market. Access is becoming more available, but you know, we didn't get into CME seed round. Let's be real. So like we got to figure out what we have at our disposal here. But I do just feel like

yeah, like if these things keep the volume that they're at, then they will undeniably be very very good tokens to own. Or maybe I'm just like getting way too overfixated on like per tokens as like the next best thing because we've already seen tons of these. We've seen DYDX and GMX and maybe this is just like the next kind of class. But at least in the current zeitgeist of like what is my token hold? What is my token doing for me? These things are undeniably the best holds like like like the hype and lit chill thesis is like you just know you're owning quality stuff.

>> Well, I'm curious to hear our next guest's perspective on this. We've got Sam Battenley, founder of Rise, who is >> uh founder of a of a Purpose Protocol that has recently been on the rise, >> pun intended. So, we're going to bring Sam up. Let's get him up here. And uh I'm curious what he has to to think about this because plenty of >> Thank you for staying awake. >> No, no, no. It's it's great to see you fellas again. How are we? >> Yeah, good to have you, buddy. Congrats on the recent growth. I saw DCF God's tweet yesterday. Um you guys have cracked some pretty strong numbers and came a long ways since buying that perex. And so Sam, maybe just catch us up, man. Uh it's been maybe half a year

or at least a little more than a quarter since we chatted. Um you know last time I think you had purchased this perplex and really kind of restructured the rise approach to what you guys were trying to do from let's kind of be this really fast high throughput blockchain for immediate DeFi applications to oh wait trading is kind of the endgame here. Execution is where all the money is. let's build one of the best trading products with this technology that we've built. Um, and then let's scale that. And so that's kind of where we are now.

So Sam, catch us up. What did I miss? I'm sure I missed a lot in there. >> No, you pretty much nailed it to be honest. Um, we uh we initially built Rise with the intent of building out a a trading ecosystem. Um, I think blockchains are incredibly powerful at flattening the stack. That was all always the vision we saw. Um they they offer dis disin intermediation. Um and like a unified risk engine is is really the the vision what we that that we built set to build out. Um and we realized the best way to do that was to actually build the the flagship app ourselves. Um and and so what that means is a a common architecture and roadmap we see in um in the per space is that they will uh a protocol or a project

will build the exchange first um and then they'll either realize or they already knew that the there's quite a large potential of composability and programmability for um for blockchains. The fact that you can have um spot and derivatives for stocks, commodities, FX and crypto like all in one venue, I think it's just a massive unlocked and we actually haven't seen that uh at scale yet really really um really witnessed in in a product. Um and so Rise and Rise X. So Rise X is our our flagship exchange. Um really asks the question is what if we skip that starting out with the exchange and then worrying about composability later. What if we skip that and jump straight to a fully composable stack where from day one we can have a Morpho light instance

deployed so we can leverage that the years of of Lindy that Morpho has been able to build up for our unified risk engine to to support unified portfolio margin and then we can have year for instance running our our vault infrastructure so we can have vault products on top of the EVM and and given it everything is fully EVM based um within the order book we we we benefit from integration integration partners having such familiar tooling and things like that. So that's that's that's the thesis. As for an update where we are, we we launched uh RiseX about 10 weeks ago. Um we've just hit I think $2.3 billion in volume. Um so the growth has been growth has been really solid.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, we're we're stoked on it. So we put so much effort into the product after 18 months of building and and yeah, I think we've we've hit we've hit a nerve somewhere with the with the users. Um and I think it is just product. So Sam, I I want to get more into the growth story a little bit later, but I I do cuz you know, you came from a place where it was almost a similar thinking as as us like you know, we we went through the whole modularity thing. We dig dug deep into the whole architecture of these applications and these protocols and blockchains and we were kind of thinking from almost like an ecosystem approach thinking, you know, if you if you go way back into, you know, DeFi summer, we had these DeFi Legos and we were kind of building the

financial system out of that. But if I'm understanding you correctly, it's almost like you've taken those those DeFi Legos and you've put them un into like one product, not like a disper disperate financial ecosystem, all of which still is composable, but you've almost used these things as supporting foundational pillars of a perex. And so now you're using like lending and borrowing for unified margin and you're using like yearn yield to support vaults. Like you're kind of building out this financial ecosystem all under one roof, all under one unified engine and it's effectively all adding into this

perpetual ecosystem. It I guess first question is is that the right way to conceptualize this? And and the second maybe just bigger question at hand here is why is pers as a category so big that it seems to have swallowed all of these other financial building blocks >> to yeah to answer the the first question I think the lens to look at it is really uh who's who's in charge of um of onboarding the users and what's the what's the experience those users are having um and the blockchain this universal blockchain approach is that it's B2B TOC you on board the builders to then on board the the users. We've taken the approach where we cut through that that we we see it as our responsibility to onboard the users um

because those users will bring opportunity for builders on rise like be it spine or Icarus some of the native apps that are building on top of the building on rise that we're going to be using their infrastructure for liquidations on spot or um or or lending to support unified margin. So my expectation is that vast majority of users will access rise or use the rise chain with without knowing the chains behind the scenes. They'll be using it through the rise x interface. Um means we can control it. We can have gasless transactions. We can have that web two experience. Um so it feels like a centralized exchange as you use everything that's on rise and then behind the scenes we have these protocols that really benefit from all of this traction. So that's that's the vision there. As for why pers have done

extremely well um I think everyone knows the the the opportunity that tokenization has um in this particularly in the in the recent 6 months we've seen the the potential for it. The fact is that building spot liquidity for any asset is very expensive and and very difficult to do. Per are just brilliant at bootstrapping liquidity. the fact that you can deploy uh say a million dollars of of capital and you're able to line a book with with $20 million of of limit orders is is just something that that you can't compete with in spot. So I really see Per as being the um the starting gun for tokenization. It's going to unlock things like basis trades

with with tokenized RWAS that ushers in spot after the fact. But yeah, I I think that's the the leading thing is liquidity. So yeah, so it's not just that per have done so well, but it really seems as if they've swallowed like all of the rest of the categories and and I really just want to double click on this because I if this is if this is the case, this just seems like it's already huge. It's only going to get bigger and it's that we and we've talked for so long that the middle gets squeezed. We know this like you know when it comes to the you know the applications and the protocols, the middle gets squeezed, infrastructure, these sorts of things. Do you have distribution or do you have really deep bare metal tech? And it seems like from a financial perspective, spot is sort of

the middle that gets squeezed. Derivatives are the things that are super lightweight and can proliferate like far and wide. And it do you think that's why that is that what we're seeing? Because perfs are effectively this super lightweight derivatives layer. We can extend them far and wide. everything else sort of gets squeezed but it ends up supporting the the financial export of the industry in these derivatives. >> I I I don't think so actually. I think spot potentially has more opportunity than than per in the long run. If you look at the the daily active users of of centralized exchanges, it's in the order of millions per day. Whereas onchain, it's it's um like Hyperlquid, it's between 50 and 75K um any day. And the

the bottom line is that there's actually a vast there's many more users trading on spot on centralized exchanges than they are trading on per it's it's a much bigger market. Um it's just really the the challenge of bootstrapping it. We onchain we just don't have spot markets that compete with the centralized exchanges today. Um like the if you're going anywhere for an index price it's going to be Binance. that's they're just it's not competitive anywhere else particularly in the EVM like B you just unis swap can't compete with with um with Binance's execution and um and price discovery um it's just a a limitation of of what you can do with an AMM in in my in my opinion. So yeah, I I would push back on that. I think spot

has massive potential. I think tokenized spot as well is is going to be huge in the next 18 months. Yeah, we're getting a lot of texts from people asking if there's specific market makers or who is the who's the underpinning of the tokenized equity market right now. You know, who's who's who's market making these markets, who's you know, participating on the per side. And so there's kind of like a whole new race now to be the dominant uh um venue for these trading for market making for this for Oracle and data providing for these things. something like a whole new uh reshuffleling of um infrastructure providers, venues, etc. that are all kind of like now all gung-ho on like we need to reorient our entire tech and

stack and thinking towards um tokenized assets. And you know, I think what's kind of interesting though is that pers are almost on the far other side of the spectrum to tokenized spot, especially if you do it like the right way in terms of like native ownership, direct onetoone ownership in a sub brokerage account that's KYCed at some US bank. It's like actually like far different ends of the spectrum in terms of like what you own. But it's interesting that Rob, if you're using this example of like the middle gets cut, it's like maybe this this barbell, this is a overused analogy in crypto, but maybe this barbell ends up being like per on one side for a certain set of speculators and then the absolute creme of the creme direct ownership tokenized

equity on the other side and then like kind of that rapper SV SPV or like other derivative structures that aren't as efficient as per even like futures. maybe that gets squeezed and so that could be an interesting way of of thinking about it as well. >> Yeah, I think I think there's there's defin definitely something there. I think there you'll need entities um or sophisticated parties to bridge that gap between spot equities and and per um there's just too much too much in the way. But I do think that per will enable liquidity for um tokenized spot equities on chain. Um the fact that you can hedge in within the same environment is is going to be a real help. And the fact that you can load up a basis trade on on say um SpaceX for instance will help

build the OI and help build the liquidity for those spot markets as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Sam, I was looking at the TVL stats that you post and you guys are have a very steady kind of linear growth to uh $10 million of TVL but a billion dollars of monthly volume. Does TVL really matter to you from the perspective of like OI, right? Is that kind of the same thing when it comes to Purpex? How how do you think about TVL as it as it relates to volume on Ryzex? >> Yeah, we we don't incentivize volume uh sorry, we don't incentivize TVL at all.

We're very different to most universal EVM chains. Um what we're mostly focused on is the number I look at the most is um DAUs uh and volume and fees. fees essentially says that people are willing to pay for this product. Um what what you want to see is that your volume over open interest ratio is is healthy. You never want to see this above say like 10x. Um otherwise it's an indication that that the the volume likely isn't healthy. So um what I'm the if you're looking on open interest and liquidations, they're probably like some of the healthiest stats that that we look at. But um yeah, I think that chart, the one thing I really like about our our TVL chart and also our open

interest chart as well as our DAU charts, they all look the same to be honest. Um it's just like a steady grind up that we're seeing. We're seeing month-on-month growth. >> Um and and that that it's organic. That's really what we've been that's what we set out to do is is build this from first principles and we're seeing the the fruits of that now. >> Yeah. And then on the business side, Sam, when it comes to, you know, fees, revenues, what's that story look like? How's the what is the kind of fee model that you guys have chosen and um what does some of the revenue currently look like from uh you know like what does a billion dollars monthly volume get you in terms of revenue?

>> So our revenue in June um was just shy of 500k when when combining the um the trading fees as well as the vault. Um we do have some fee rebates from um from trading volume. essentially users work their way up the fee tiers and we're currently doing that as as rebates. So that drops down a little bit. Um but a vast majority of that is is is revenue that's um can go back into growth of of the protocol and in the future we've got options um once we launch a token with what we do with the treasury. Sam, this is a question we don't ask too many people just popped in my mind. What does the expense side of the equation look like? because we talk so much about buybacks and we talk so much about revenue, but that's only one half of the

it's only one half of the equation here, you know, when it comes to like Ethereum's rent like security rent that you have to like or the L2 fees like what is the expense breakdown look like? >> Honestly, uh Ethereum doesn't charge very much for um for we don't use Ethereum DA so it's really just for settlement. So that's relatively cheap. We use IG DA. We're we're actually the the biggest power user of IGN DA. Um and so there's there's costs there. Um however, the the bottom line is mostly uh it's it's operations and paying Bezos for our um for the infrastructure is >> that's where most of the costs are.

>> And so on a 500k month, are you are you guys in the green on that? >> Yeah, we're helping. >> For sure. Right. >> Yeah, very much so. >> For sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you guys had a real business on your hands. >> We got a business. We got a business. 26. Sam, welcome into the welcome to the new era. Man, >> remember what you guys return to fundamentals. We're there. >> Two real businesses on the show today. Extended doing like 70k to 300k on their best days and now rise doing 500k month last month. Um, look at this space, Sam. Who would have thought?

>> New era. It's I think build businesses that users want to use um and offer products that that users want to see. People people want want access to people want access to to new assets. That's that's what what's interesting now. >> Yeah. And I mean part of it as well like I think Rob the reason why you asked that question was like there's also this uh framework around understanding like net token value flows and understand understanding like okay how much is there revenue into the business and then um basically you calculate emissions you know expenses and maybe like one one or two other things and then you get to like this like you know profit and loss sheet for token holders >> for the business and also for token holders. Exactly. So like you can look

at revenue into the business and expenses out of the business and then you can look at like revenue into the token and expenses you know into the token in terms of inflation >> and I mean obviously same you want to like reinvest these these profits into you know R&D team etc. And then once you get you know once you get to the token side you're going to have a lot of pressure from the community to effectively you know hyperl's going to set the standard of like we're going to do 99%. You know, I actually think if Hyperliquid came out was like we're only doing 97%. I don't think it would change that much. So, I think there's like a little bit of leeway there. Um, but yeah, the I think the goal for the industry's builders today and like the separation is is thinking about that net

value flow and like if you can be consistently green in that every single month, you've got a very very investable asset on your hands and people will buy that thing up. I think the one thing that's been amazing about launching the product, you guys know how long we we spent and how much effort we we put into building this. Um, but the the day that that we launched the the entire company changed. We went from a um essentially we delivered this this pristine data that we could make decisions on. Um that we could look at every single action that we're doing within the team and how that results to the metrics that we want to see. So fees and um and volume, things like that. Um, I I think that's that's been a that's that's a real gamecher. I think it's interesting that

it sounds that sounds like obvious for a business and how a business should operate, but it's actually uh 12 months ago or and and in crypto's history, it's it's been um that's been like lacking quite a bit. And the fact that we just we can we can move with clarity now has been a massive level up for us and I imagine it has been the same for many other teams. Sam, we kind of blew right by this, but I think it's worth just spending one question. I don't have to spend too much time on it. Like, you guys said you're the main consumer of IEN DA. IEG layer is sort of like an AI company now. What is the state of their DA product?

>> Uh, it's it's still um still kicking. Uh they like it's it's stable. It's they they built a product that works and and we're we're the biggest users of it. Um so they there was some recent shifts around uh their staking u between Ethereum and IGEN staking. Um but as a user of the product um there's been like some shifts to the security assumptions there but um ultimately they've they've done a really good job of of delivering on a strong product. >> Just works. Cool. >> Yeah. Just I don't think about it much to be honest. It just works.

>> Yeah. That's the >> good for you guys. Yeah. um when it comes to thinking about scaling from 1 billion to 10 billion monthly volume, right? We saw we should, you know, we just had the extended guys on. They did this partnership with E Toro Lighter on last week. We had Vlad talking about their Robin Hood, you know, partnership. So clearly dist you know distribution is now becoming a very competitive game for per onchain you know is that what you think the you know next breakthrough is is like getting this in front of more um you know retail investors is is there is there other kind of key facets that you see as the road to getting this thing to 510 billion of monthly volume >> yeah like like I mentioned earlier the

stat about the daily active users in centralized exchanges compared to um compared to onchain I think that's That's a real core market. So that that should that that is going to be the real unlock. So I think yes, we we need to get access to that broader market. However, I am um I'm not confident that working through an existing retail broker, a traditional finance retail broker is going to be the the long-term strategy there. Um I honestly think the like like you said, the the people in the middle get squeezed. Um, I think the strongest position to be in is to actually own that, own the user base.

Um, and the market that we're sitting in that that we're trying to tackle today is massive and in in 5 years is going to be much much much bigger. So I think the like what what we see on chain today is that we've captured a well particularly hyperl liquid and and to some degree lighter and and even variational now has captured um this very high like highly valuable user base but it's highly concentrated. So the the LTV of each of the users is is super high because they they trade quite a bit. Um however the number of users is is relatively low. So I I think the um that larger user base of of users that

essentially Binance has access to or like Robin Hood has has access to today is essentially untouched by onchain venues. Um so the my what I anticipate is that in the next uh in the next two years essentially there will be a onchain venue that gets access to this user base not via a um a distribution partner but themselves they actually do the distribution themselves um and they have the potential to um really level up and and and see daily active users in the millions and and doing 10 billion plus a day in in volume if someone's actually able to tap into this user base. And we've seen this before. This is this would be a scale of

disruption in the market of what FDX did when it not not when it not when it blew up, but when it when it entered the market or even when Binance entered the market. I think there's potential for an onchain venue to do that. >> What do you think is going to you know we what we've learned is that consumer behavior is so ingrained in people that it takes something significant in order for them to switch. you know, if their daily habit is going to one website, take something pretty significant for them to switch their daily habits, things that they do day, you know, day in and day out. What do you think is powerful enough to get people enough people to switch their behavior and and really tap into that market?

>> Where I see the the lower hanging fruit isn't uh essentially tackling an existing market. It's serving a product to users that are underserved today. Um, so there's many users that maybe once had a product and then the circumstances change changed in that particular jurisdiction and they now no longer have that that product. So for instance, I used to be able to trade per in Australia, I no longer can um on on centralized venues. Um, so I there's many pockets of users that say they can't access this particular asset category in in their region. Um, but we're able to offer them them that through a non-custodial experience and and a wallet. So I that's actually where I think there will be the most potential

is capturing these underserved markets or these underserved user bases. Like there will be particular niches and you might need to work with particular local um regulators to to access them. Um that they're the pockets I actually think are the most valuable. >> Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Because I I mean the whole downloading the wallet and the you know pass key now is kind of like the main main easiest way just Face ID or finger scan on the laptop. It's definitely an improvement, but yeah, the experiences of like these Robin Hoods and things is is far far easier. But then like I don't know, man, I go so like you know my brokerage account super easy. Like super easy. The only headache that I have is uh whenever I put money into a money market, I have to wait a

whole day, a whole trading day to be able to use it. So that's like super annoying. But otherwise, it's like, you know deposit withdrawal wire whatever. Um, but then when you go from trading pers or crypto on like hyperlquid or any per sex and then go try to trade on Robin Hood even versus like a centralized exchange, it is like it is materially harder because it's all on your phone. One, I I don't really like that. And two, the fees are extravagant and so you're just getting like destroyed on the fees and you can't go to like Kraken Pro or Coinbase Pro or Hyperlquid and just pay the normal, you know, marketmaking fees. you're paying the freaking whatever fees that like the basic person is is paying. And so it's funny how like the trading experience is

maybe easier on some of those platforms, but then once you try the venues on chain and you get the experience or even like a good quality crypto exchange that's you know like like like a Binance or Kraken, you actually find that going back to like Robin Hoods or whatever is actually worse. >> It's kind of weird. I think it is once you overcome that hurdle of of onboarding and understanding that I I I do agree it's definitely worse. Um but it's interesting we've been talking about the onboarding experience and uh UX for years now and I still don't think it's anyone's really cracked it like of the perks that's in the market. No one's really >> cracked at the experience that you you want to have 2FA on your on on the the system that's holding your assets and

you want to have a recovery system. Um we just don't have that yet. So, I think once that's once we overcome that, then there's um there's potential for quite a bit of growth. >> Yeah, Sam, man, congrats on the growth. Looking forward to seeing this thing grow to 2 billion, 3 billion, four billion. I I know it's late over there. We appreciate you uh coming on and great to catch up. Let me know when you're in New York if you have plans. I'm sure there's some market makers or traders or firms you can just speak to here and have to come to the studio and hang out. >> Yeah, I've got to come come and check out Tokenization Tower. That's uh it's on my bucket list.

>> Yeah, the rollup's uh grown up a little bit over here, I'll tell you that. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a brave new world over there. Really appreciate your time. >> Rise, the number one Australian perplex. >> Yeah, exactly. >> We'll see you later, Sam. Thanks, man. >> See you, buddy. >> Man, per just keep growing. These these prices are awesome. We're going to look back and say, why didn't I Why didn't we get more? I'm taking advantage. I got big bags of hype and lip, but I'll sprinkle for some bags of others. I could actually see three to five per dexes actually being competitive. Too many per dexes. There can only be one LIIT.

>> So, kind of differing opinions in the chat here. >> You know, it it comes up in my mind like why why hasn't Rise launched a token? Why hasn't Extended launched a token? >> Um, you got Hyperlid Live, you got Lit Live, uh, variational coming online. going from like a privatelyowned perplex to launching a token is one direction where I think a lot of these are going to end up doing well and there is going to be some upside because market share and whatnot. Yeah, >> I think we're going to get a major an acquisition of a major perex by a major financial institution in the next >> the next year to be conservative >> I think like those who have not yet launched tokens I mean Sam and Rise are

in the billions uh extended is in the billions I could see e Toro acquiring >> extended I could see a major financial institution acquiring Sam I think is going to launch a token we didn't ask him But I mean, I I think he's going to go probably the token route, but I could see other major per dexes choose to stay private than exit to major financial institutions. And so I think there is tons of upside. >> Yeah. >> Because I think you are going to end up with this big per pie. You're going to see the players right now are going to make up most of that pie. you're going to see some incumbents launch their own and that's going to come up with a

significant portion of that pie and then you're going to see some incumbents acquire uh like native built perexes. So >> I I think if you're looking at like okay onchain native portion of per markets and and then traditionally financial incumbent portion some even if you call it 50/50 right you get the CME JP Morgan e Toro like that side and then you got hyperlquid lighter you know variational extended rise side even if you say just 5050 some portion of the trad 550 is going to be acquisitions of the onchain side which are going to be you things if you do have exposure to it from a from a private investor access

point of view there's still upside there. So >> from that perspective, I think there is tons of upside in the onchain native built performance. >> I think the I think the reward to launch a token is just significantly higher though. Like if you're looking at um lighter and hyperlid as your mental models and you're variational, you're for sure launching this token. I mean look, I mean like this thing is like you're going to trade in the billions. You're going to alloc you're going to have a you know a good bit allocated to the team. It's just like the incentive is like yesterday you were asking this curitized guy. Why go public? Well, the answer to that question that he wouldn't say is because we just got rich as [ __ ] >> Mhm.

>> That's the answer to the question. So yes, I think selling the exchanges could give them a good option as well, but I mean, yeah, >> but I think No, no, I I hear you and I think I think it makes sense. But and and I think part of your point is that like launching a token is similar to going public. You get exit liquidity. But look at Hyperliquid, for example, or or other companies that end up launching these tokens. If they start to sell tokens, that's a like that's a different sort.

>> I think that seems to already >> hyperlquid. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty sure the devs are selling some tokens. >> Maybe some tokens, but I don't know how many tokens they're really there's probably some onchain analytics on this because from what I'm >> they're definitely selling >> they're selling some but but relative to the entire supply, it's not very much >> for the team to get rich. Remember, if you sell a company and you own most of the equity, you get most of the proceeds of that sale. But >> of course, >> if you launch a token and you have some portion of that token supply, you don't I feel like it's it would be like if you exit like the entire token supply in one shot.

>> So like right >> maybe you don't get the valuation that you would get if you launched the token, but >> precisely that would that would be my take. >> Your your liquidation path is much faster. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All right, guys. Um I think Argentina just won an absolute insane game. Um I think I think Aton bet on it. I think he probably won. It was the right bet. They came they come out down one zero and then >> at halftime >> they win three-2 if I'm not mistaken.

Three to2 fulltime, three goals. Apparently, apparently they took away a goal from Egypt from MoSalah. And people are just so fed up with the VR, the V reviews. They're so fed up. And they're also fed up with the hydration breaks. If you go to these games, guys, every game, they're just booing at the hybr at the hydration break. They're just booing hardcore. Like they're just like boo in the stands like the whole time just booing. You know, you know the uh the hydration break is just for TV TV ads.

>> Yeah, it's just like a commercial. It's like a commercial break. Which brings me to Fracks. Building infrastructure for the future of digital money, open, stable, and borderless. Visit frack.com to learn more about stable coins on this hydration break. All right, guys. Let's get into the markets, the weather, get the show on the road. Let's have some fun here. 67 degrees in New York. It does. It does not feel like a July day. It's overcast. That's the Empire State Building right there. We are looking at alltime highs across our bags. Just joined lads. What did I miss? What's going on new type? You missed two up and cominging perplexes that we interviewed.

Uh great conversations. Both are like much more on the smaller side than, you know, our hype and lighter bags, but they're doing well. Uh Egypt was up two against Argentina last minutes. Last 15 minutes, Argentina scored two, then a third with a few minutes left. Unreal, >> embarrassing. >> As always, our weather is powered by our friends at Relay. Visit relay.link for the best crosschain swaps in the market. Let's keep it rolling into the markets. That's what you guys want to hear about. Let me tell you about dinari first. Building infrastructure for tokenized US equities. Bringing real world stocks on chain. Trade Space XD on hyperlquid spot markets for dinari powered by dinari.

Bitcoin 64. Ethereum 1,800. We're going to look at the charts in a bit guys. Salana 82. Zins in the mouth. chain link just around that $8 mark and near over $2. Um, as always, guys, powered by Zama. I mean, do you honestly guys, we've been talking about Michael Sailor and Stretch and I know that Rob wasn't here for that whole saga, but our bull thesis was just that Michael Sailor's Stretch product was going to get to like low 90s. Like, it was the most stupid bull thesis ever. was like this thing that's supposed to be at 100 is just going to get to like 89 to 92 and then we're going to party for a little while. And if we check the price of just stretch today, it is 88. It tapped 91 90.9 91 and we're

partying. I mean, Bitcoin looks ready to go. It looks ready for another leg. We've had I mean seven daily green candles in a row on Bitcoin since we thought since the world was collapsing. What's that one movie with that chicken? The sky is falling. That was the vibes. >> Chicken Little. Yeah. So that was the vibes while you were gone, Rob. I think you texted me. You were like, "Oh [ __ ] new lows coming." And I was like, "I don't know, man. I think we're going to go higher." >> I did not text. >> I think you did. I think I can pull the text up. >> Please pull the text up. Last time you pulled something up failed to exist. Here we go.

>> I um I texted you that I had some longs underwater and they're no longer Well, some of them are still >> I um >> Here we go. >> Yeah, pull it up. Let's >> let me tell you guys the bottom here on this. >> Yeah, let's let's hear it cuz last time you tried to do this here. >> Some trip we had to Del Rey. The text did not exist. >> It's risk on time after I was buying hype at 66. Yes. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. Let's see. Let's see. I think this might have been another one you fabricated in your head. >> Nah, dude. You were like, "Oh, here we go. Market sucks." So choppy. >> Choppy.

>> Market sucks. That was in June. Ah, this is too This is too Oh, no. I'll find it. But >> no, you won't. Um, >> yeah. And I was I was here when we were talking about Sailor and my opinion was that Sailor shouldn't do anything. >> Well, he did things. >> Well, that's for sure. >> He announced things and then he sold some he sold some Bitcoin yesterday >> um when I got back for 10 days. He didn't really do anything. >> Yeah, he's waiting for you to get back. >> So, and it worked. >> But our thesis has literally just been stretched back to 90 92 for a little while. Calm down the investor nerves and then go for it. And that's kind of what happened. Near looks great. Chainlink also had a really nice deviation. We'll

go through some charts in in in a bit, guys. Salana also is holding that must hold level. So, I could I could expect a move higher uh on Soul ETH, honestly. I'll pull up the chart that we were looking at last week, guys, but ETH is getting to the make or break point. If we flip these levels on ETH like we did soul, then I think we could get a really, really nice party for a little while. Like something that we haven't seen in months, but we're kind of at the point right now where we need to flip these levels. So, as always guys, our market is powered by our friends at Zama. We'll get Rob's takes on a bunch of the market stuff. We'll do some screen share in a few. Uh but before we do, let's get into the news. Let me tell

you about Near first. Your home for building and using onchain apps, one account, no borders, your financial life, all onchain, powered by Near. Visit near.com. Wow. So Rob, I put out a tweet and the tweet was like, "What is the best, most undervalued, underowned tokens?" And then I quote tweeted on my own and I put a screenshot of Etherfi, one of our funds holdings, and I was like, Ether is undervalued. It's doing very well and it is uh the market's mispricing. You know, part of like those whole like fundamentals thesis >> and then the cast founder

somewhere in the replies started dogging on Ether. >> Wait, wait. I can I I'm gonna ask clarification question. What is cast? >> Cast is like a neo bankank card. >> Okay. So similar so competitor to ether fun. >> Yes. Extremely much so. >> And um then they him and Mike got into a bit of a scruffle >> and then Mike post this banger thing hit like 400k views. And in this screenshot, the cast terms of service reportedly treats users deposits as sale sales to the cast company.

>> Whoa. So like I deposit into this platform and you are treating that as like >> I'm selling that asset like like like I'm giving you like I'm selling that asset to you for >> zero. I don't like that. >> And so people are like is that a tax event? is at a taxable event. It's completely custodial and in the terms of service, it literally says you give up all ownership and it is a sale to the cast company >> for what? What do I get in return for selling you? >> We get to use the card. You get to use the card.

>> So, yeah. >> Let's uh Okay. So, so now Mike and Cass are just completely going back and forth at it. This is actually in their terms of service. This isn't a parody. >> Yeah. So, if you scroll down in the comments here, >> can we get a mute in the chat, please? >> Bass is not doing an airdrop. Bass airdrop will be the catalyst. Bass is not doing airdrop. L in the chat for cast. Can we get a mute in the chat, please?

Thank you. Uh, your IQ is showing this how custodial cards work where the company effectively buys your crypto for you upon deposit. It's the same for binary.com blah blah blah. Your first day in crypto [ __ ] off castle. >> Okay. >> Where the hold on the company effectively scroll back up real quick. The effectively company what buys your crypto from you upon deposit >> upon deposit. It's the same for Binance, Crypto.com, Coinbase, etc. your first day in crypto and I don't I don't know. Yeah, keep going.

Do you like being >> all right? Mike is >> Mike is take taking an appeal to emotional authority here. But is that really what happens? So like >> is that like the philosoph philosophical term when you try to guilt trip someone with morals >> sort of? Yeah. appeal to authority, emotional authority. >> When you when you pose a like a logical argument, you can appeal to different sources of authority. You can appeal to an emotional authority. You can appeal to a logical authority. You can beat you can have philosophical arguments different ways. It's not the point.

So anyways guys, obviously we invested in Ether. We're still holding the tokens. That was part of my bullish post. It was like we're still holding. We we haven't sold any of these tokens. It's been like three years. Charts down only, but it's okay. And yeah, I mean if you stroll okay, so let's go to the next post. You can see the kind of timeline of events here. So the cast founder made a joke about the competitor. Uh so July 3rd, I asked the token has strong fundamentals but badly on their own. Then I answered my own question with Etherfi. Someone posted chart of the token deep red. CEO quote tweets it and says we're not very good at marketing.

Dumping on retail doesn't count. Tried being a cute little dunk. Then Etheri CEO did not find it cute. You want to talk [ __ ] because your token because our token's down in the gutter. Can we get that off the screen? Um, your whole business is scamming customers. You're a con artist. >> Yeah. >> And then he did a South Park meme that we just saw and then Mike did the quote tweet and that thing is flying and he kind of got owned here. >> Who did the cast guy? >> I think cast guy kind of got cooked. >> I mean somehow Mike's quote tweet that called him a scammer hit like pretty pretty viral.

>> Yeah. So I don't know guys. I think it's important to know what your terms of service are and your custody terms and who's using things and what and so >> so let me just I I want to try to just steal man this here >> if I deposit into this >> the person in the comments had the best not the best but like the the most reasonable or or strongest appeal here where they said that it's treated as a sale to cast meaning that like I get cash for my crypto. It's effectively like I'm selling it for stable coins on this card and then I can spend the stable coins from this card. But what if I were to like withdraw my crypto? Would

I get >> like let's say I deposit it's treated as a sale, right? And then the market goes meaningfully higher. In my mind, I'm holding on to this crypto, right? But I'm just spending down the balance. When I withdraw, do I get the coins or do I get the cash from when I sold it at the lower point? No, I think you get the coins. I think it's more of a custody question. I think it's more of like a um so users receive a USD denominated spending entry, but the terms say it is not an account balance or stored value.

So maybe you're right, Rob. That would be pretty I mean they're going to lose if if they're misleading customers and thinking that I deposit I get to spend down this balance but when I withdraw I'm going to withdraw money based on the fluctuations in this if that's what people expect when they're using a crypto card is that their money is kept in the crypto is that it's going to be subject to the fluctuations in the price up down or sideways. But if they're gonna just sell your not then you could just sell it off rampit and then spend like on a regular card, there's no point.

>> Yeah, that is uh a wrinkle that I did not consider. I don't want to be too hard on cast. like I think they have a really good product, but this was just like a one of those bang moments where you know, you're building a non-custodial application in DeFi and you know, you're seeing your competitor who's not doing things the same way you are and you just kind of take a shot at them. So yeah, bit of drama here. Nothing really for us. Um, yeah, we're Ether holders as I've said, as I tweeted. What is that token doing?

Oh yeah. Pumping pumping off the lows finally. We'll see what happens. It's got a long way to go. A long way to go. I I I'll draw some levels up for you guys. >> Oh, don't worry. Here in a bit. That's okay. That's all right. >> No, don't worry. We'll get there. I think we're good. >> All right, guys. Um, let's get into our next one. Before we do, let me tell you about Infinifi building DeFi infrastructure for simpler access to onchain yield, liquidity, capital allocation. Visit infinifi.xyz to learn more. Rob Powell comparing governments printing money to service existing debt with using one credit card to pay off of another. Uh the rich own assets assets hold their value as the currency debases. This is kind of like the OG Ralph Pal take and I think it's

just like an interesting point in time to remind everyone kind of like what we're what the current investing climate really is. Just go ahead and play the video. So basically what they're doing is printing money to pay the debt. That's like using a credit card to pay a credit card. That's the whole game we're in. This is the debasement of currency. This is the game why the rich get richer because they own assets. The poor don't because they have incomes. Incomes only grow with GDP and assets go up by the rate of debasement which is at least 8% a year plus maybe an inflation rate. So that's the whole game that is being played at every government level right now. And we're seeing it again um yesterday as the Federal Reserve go back

to using the balance sheet again. It's all the same story. We've got 10 trillion dollars of debt to roll in the US alone in the next 12 months. >> So, and I'll come on to the business cycle and how that all interacts. But this is the story. This is what drives number go up and drives adoption of the industry that we all know and love. Or maybe not right now because it keeps chopping around too much, but generally we do. This is from 2025 November. >> So basically what they're >> Yeah. I mean look the thesis still plays out especially when it comes to the terms of service when it comes to hyperlquid airdrop. Yeah. Yeah. New type. Tell me about it but I uh I didn't click the button.

>> So >> I didn't click the button. >> Yeah. I mean >> there goes there goes generational wealth. >> I think um >> lost. >> I think Kevin Worsh has an opportunity to be a really good Fed chair. >> I think Yeah. I think you know he came out his first uh Fed meeting. He said he's going to be hard on inflation. People were peak hawkish thinking that he was going to raise rates. I think >> I think Kevin Worsh is going to play it squash for a little while. I don't think he's going to do anything to the rates. I think he's going to decrease the size of the balance sheet. And I think we're going to absorb all these disinflationary pressures like AI uh and like the Iran war. And I think we're just going to kind of roll through, keep rates where they are. The economy is in

a relatively healthy spot. And I think we're just going to continue um at these like somewhat elevated rates and somewhat elevated inflation levels. Um if you can do that, I think the economy can absorb all of this. You can end up with some deflationary pressures from technology and AI and the war ending, then you can really blow the roof off the place and and and print some serious cash. And I think that's where we're headed. Um I think I think like yeah the economy is actually in a decent spot. Uh >> wow. Okay. Um Rob kind of >> stock market is at like all-time highs.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> I mean it looks great. Let's move off real pal. People in the chat are not not too uh not too uh bullish on real pal. Um like somebody so we had this team from Hyperlid on called Nest and they um they they they have like a VE33 DEX very similar to Aerome, but they had this crazy hype staking program like crazy yield and you know we were all putting in some uh we you know we were putting in like some small amounts into it and like doing this like lock program and I mean the token is is down from where we talked about it. Um, and it's kind of like gone through its first parabola,

but Marvin in the chat just got $350 of hype dropped after one week of staking $1,500. >> Wow. >> And Greg also locked Nest, too. So, guys, it's going to be interesting to see if hype breaks alltime highs. If you if we get Nest doing well as well, then this thing's just a money printer. If it's like a beta to hype and it's giving that yield, dude, that's kind of nuts. Love RA, but damn F notes and Suie.

Yeah. >> So, >> Rob, what's your take on this tokenization securitize? You had Billy on. >> Billy's great. Securitize is great. Leading the tokenization wave. I think uh this is what's going to bring billions if not trillions on chain. Those are going to end up in DeFi protocols on chain. We're going to end up with more activity, more fees, more value acrewing to token holders. >> Um, >> bullish. >> That's the thesis. And Securitize is leading the wave. >> I did I So, I asked Billy if securityize is a crypto company.

>> Okay. >> He said no. >> And I think this is the narrative that they're taking to Tradfi. It's like, >> yeah, >> tokenization is not crypto. And he said that word for word. He said tokenization is not crypto. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not it's not all the fugazi that it could. >> Of course not, man. Of course tokenization. It could never be that. We're modernizing the financial system. We're not messing around with that memecoin nonsense. This isn't crypto. This is efficiency. This is innovation. This is financial infrastructure. >> And we're upgrading the system.

>> Yeah. uh new type says did we talk about Per which is actually kind of like similar but different they just launched their purpose product today I don't know I don't know uh I think they have a chance but >> I'm not buying here on the back of their per launch I would just keep riding hyperlquid and lighter >> Andy I want to talk about Robin Hood chain >> okay >> um actually I want to ask you like your take on Robin Hood chain because that was I I want to talk to you about a couple things. Um, one is Robin Hood chain, the other one is open US dollar because these were kind of the two big things that happened while I was gone.

And I'm curious like how you think these play into the market do you think open US dollar has a chance against Tether and Circle? And do you think Robin Hood chain has like what's happening there? It's an Ethereum L2 with arbitrum. Like >> what are the flows? Is it the new base? like what what's happening here? >> Yeah. I mean, apparently people are paying a ton of money to be the chain or the apps on the chain. So, in previous worlds, the chain would pay to get the apps to deploy on their network. And I saw this Yano tweet about it where it was like in this case the apps were paying Robin Hood to get primary listing

on the chain or primary usage to be like the you know denominated lending market. Like I think Morpho paid a bunch to be like the lending market, you know. I think it goes goes for a bunch of these >> uh infrastructure players and and they've grown. What's cool is that they have direct access to the tokenized versions of all the assets on Robin Hood. So, you can like trade pretty much anything that's on Robin Hood eventually through this new DEX called Rialto. We actually just got thrown in a group chat with them, Rob. Um, and they are kind of like the the prop AMM for tokenized assets on Robin Hood chain.

>> Mh. >> And so it sounds like this prop AMM concept is dominating for tokenized assets. Um, and I don't know, man, they're growing. Robin Hood chain is growing. It's doing well. Um, it's very early. There's basically two takes on this. There's Neo Finance. This is like the future of distribution for a lot of these DeFi applications onboarding a ton of these new users, new new investors into the ecosystem. And then there's the corpo chain bad chain. We've seen this tried many, many times and um it's not going to work. I kind of side more on the Neo Finance on the this is a really nice distribution wedge for a ton of

cool D5 protocols and lighter got a massive boost in price from this by being listed as the official per stacks you know Morpho arbitum Ethereum all kind of winning chain link from this announcement so my take is more in the neo finance camp less in the corpor chain camp and I think it's pretty I think it's a good start for them and I think they could be a top yeah I think they could be a top five chain I mean, Robin Hood is a top 100 US equity by market cap, hundred billion dollar company.

>> Yeah. >> So, it feels like a big deal. >> Would Robin Hood chain also launch onchain options or is Derive still the king? Dive is the king. Also, guys, Derive has some stuff coming out that I've been privy to. Um, we'll look at that chart later as well. because I think it's um I think it's going to have a I think it's going to have a run. >> And so like part of the thesis here is that if it if I understand correctly all the equities that Robin Hood currently has and the the underneath the hood here is that you know Robin Hood has a has a lot of users. Robin Hood is a broker. It buys the equities and it it allows

people to interact with the equities, but the equities never really change hands. Like the DTCC has a listed shareholder of the equities. Robin Hood is listed as a shareholder. If I sell an equity, if I if I own an equity on Robin Hood and I sell it, right, and then you buy it, the the title the tra the the owner of that equity never really changes hands. always just listed as Robin Hood and then Robin Hood internally on its ledger just shifts the the equity from my account to your account.

All of the equities that Robin Hood has in its balance sheet that it's holding on behalf of users, they could tokenize all of that. They don't need, my understanding is that they don't need anyone else's permission in order to tokenize that. It can be effectively be like a stable coin where they have treasuries and they just have these liabilities that they have issued out to their customers. Robin Hood has assets on its balance sheet in the form of equities. They can just people are going to buy those equities from them. Those are listed as liabilities on the balance sheet. They can just shift that account model >> any which way they want. And it could all be tokenized to allow for well it could be for self custody. It could be for direct settlement. It could just be for instant settlement moving around

internally. >> So >> just that right there could like what like the path for from all of the equities that are currently getting traded on Robin Hood to getting traded on Robin Hood chain. There's like a very very direct path for that to take place. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's why I think that it's not a corpor chain. That's why I don't think the corpo chain [ __ ] works here. The the last like point that that I'll make here is that I think there's a metric to watch. I think it's going to be assets on Robin Hood proper ratio with assets on Robin Hood chain. And my guess is that right now it's like 99 to1 >> if that. Yeah.

>> Exactly right. But over time I would expect this to just continue to get more and more >> Yeah. like one-sided in favor of Robin Hood chain to the point where eventually we're gonna get like one to 99 and 99% of the assets of Robin Hood are going to be on Robin Hood chain. >> That would be insane. >> And I think it's and then just to continue from that, it's like this is the Neoinance thesis. How does that affect >> quote unquote our bags? Like if I own lighter for instance and lighter is the chosen per stacks on >> Robin Hood chain and 99% of the Robin Hood assets in the form of equities are on Robin Hood chain.

>> Doesn't that mean that like substantially more volume and open interest is on lighter? >> Yeah. And you know that lighter launched a separate instance for Robin Hood chain and that by the magic of ZK you can basically like aggregate the liquidity after the like if they need to you can aggregate the liquidity across the difference the different instances of lighter but but lighter have to bootstrap liquidity on Robin Hood chain >> for their new instance. If Robin Hood assets move from Robin Hood to Robin Hood chain, then it's so much easier for people on mainnet lighter to get access to an equity because then they all of a sudden have access to the entire breadth

of Robin Hood equities. >> Yeah, >> right. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you can if you can aggreate aggregate liquidity, >> but you still need liquidity for them. >> You need Robin Hood to move assets from Robin Hood to Robin Hood chain. Then you have it on Robin Hood chain. Lighter can tap into that liquidity and you can aggregate that for other lighter instances means that all of a sudden anywhere lighter is deployed you have access to all of Robin Hood equities. However, lighter instance on Robin Hood is going to be KYC or it's going to have AML restrictions and it's going to have a different whole different setup compared to lighter not >> that makes aggregation and composability

more difficult >> for sure. Um what is STRC? Uh that is Michael Sailor's stretch product the dividend or the preferred digital credit product. Nest Alpha is fire. Yes, derive. I have some more for unerived for you guys. >> Robin Hood uses unsophisticated retail meme gamblers. I can't see how to exploit them above what Robin Hood already will slash is. I think you mean Salana. Um, so what will Coinbase, Kraken, and Robin Hood be competing on? Where are their moes? I think this is a good question. I mean, you end up with like Coinbase, Kraken, Robin Hood. You could even throw some of the other centralized exchanges, Binance, U, those competing with Binance, you could throw

Hyperlid in here. These are all competing for the same thing. It's flow. It's you're competing for order flow, order execution, order settlement. All of these things are like the exchanges. Um, deep liquidity mode. It's it's inevitable. Then we all get Zoney's. Freedom Guy is hilarious, man. Sigma's slayer. Good to see you here. facts. Yeah. So, I mean, Rob, that's that is that is Robin Hood chain and that is kind of what's possible. Um, and it caught a lot of the market off guard and uh it was pretty big for crypto. Morpho as well, Chainlink, Lei, couple others

did really well off that. Ethereum and Arbitum as well. Arbitum is not getting enough credit for the work that they're doing with variational on their platform. And now this Robin Hood chain. >> I do. You think Arbitum and the other L2s are uh victims of the equity token split. >> Yeah, they're all I mean most of the industry is right now. >> Man, the Gary Gendler effect just continues to >> Yeah, you're right, man. It It's It is It is funny how Hyperlid launched post Gendler, right? They launched their token right after Trump got um vote or right before Trump got voted in or right

after or like some like very it was November 2024. >> Mhm. >> So I don't know the exact dates the of the inauguration >> inauguration would have been January of 2015. >> Okay. So then a couple months before but knowing that that the previous era was coming to an end. >> Yeah. >> It's funny how that works, right? >> B20 token is launching on base tomorrow. This will make it possible to launch all tokenized stocks on chain. What will bring these stocks to Aerrum? Big moment. >> Oh boy. You think that's why we're seeing Aerrum pump?

>> I think they had that Arrow mainet um announcement and migration happening in July. I think that's what it is. >> They also had this RWA like moment. Coinbase had their big upgrade >> and I kind of like what J G Vader is saying. E20 token if you get like a token standard that has maybe >> KYC privacy in mind. Um I'm just going off the the people in the chat here that are >> is that what it is?

>> The wisdom of the crowd if you will >> cuz Aerodrome's funny. >> We all know that Airdrome is launching on mainet and that's going to that's going to work. It's going to give them some order flow but a drrome in the last like two days >> has uh has really started to move. >> Yeah. So, the B20 native token standard is scheduled to go live July 8th. It is the the trusted easy token standard for issuing any asset onchain. H I'm pulling up my screen here um and I'll show you guys what I'm looking at and we'll kind of bounce between the news and the screen. But yeah, that is what that is what this token standard is. is this uh trusted token standard pull it up

>> for issuing any asset on chain. >> So B20 is launching tomorrow. >> Wow. >> And so BAS is clearly looking at the tokenized asset market and trying to you know win that right. >> Oh absolutely. I mean RWAS we see look Robin Hood is going this direction and is in this direction. Securitize dinari. >> Yeah. Aer drone base, everyone is going into the RW, which again is just such a broad term.

>> Yeah, it is. >> I mean, you can there's an argument that anything fits into this RWA category. It is literally the the largest possible TAM. And so >> yeah, >> you know, by saying that you are like a major player in RWA or you know, you're going to get this major RWA unlock, you end up with like just a potential market of an enormous size. Check this out. So this B20 token has transfer policies, freeze and sees, roll based access control, memos, and supply caps. So you you remember when the whole a kelpfell thing was happening and everyone was like dude how do we not have rate limits

in this in this in in this world? That's kind of what's happening here. It's almost like rate limits. >> Read that one more time. Let's let's think about the >> so transfer policies freeze and seize role based access control memos and supply caps. >> Oh my god. I mean, if if you were a cipher punk in 2014 reading this, you're just shaking in your boots right now. >> Yeah, but this is also bullish. Like, you're getting your We're getting all the assets on chain, you know? That's what we want.

Like, yes, I get it that we did not build, but like dude, we we tried what what what did we get? What did the incentive structure of the cipher punk libertarian crypto space get us? >> Bitcoin. VC pump and dumps mean coins and max extraction. >> None of that. >> We have no good assets on chain. >> None of that cipher punk. We got Bitcoin and Zcash. >> We do have Bitcoin. And what do you guys think? Are we going for another green candle here? >> Another one. What do we think about this?

Like what? Maybe we need to break like if we break this level here. I mean, we're looking pretty good. I can't I can't with your levels. >> Like I mean >> guys, TA doesn't exist. >> Yeah, Rob doesn't think TA works. >> TA >> is a fundamentals guy. >> TA doesn't exist. >> How about this guys? >> Oh my god. >> What do we think about this guys? >> You're just we bullish in the chat. I think everyone writing off layer zero at a dollar at sub $1 is ridiculous. Ono partner with layer zero. Arbit partner with layer zero. Robin Hood on arbitum orbit bags are packed and ready. LFG.

Freedom Guy's the man. What is zero doing? I mean, >> oh, >> I mean, whoa. >> So, not interested until we flip. Yeah. Until we flip that. Until we flip a dollar 26. Not interested. Whereas, guys, if you go to Salana, >> I just >> You go to Salana, we flipped that level. Like even if you just zoom in a bit, we flipped that level. >> Nude type says TA 100% works.

>> Nude type, I love you, man. I just I think I think it might >> I think I think it works when you want it to work and then you know when when it doesn't work when it doesn't work, you just draw a new line. Like >> what do we think about this? I mean, guys, this looks ready, man. >> Greg says, uh, TA's [ __ ] One Trump tweet and all that. TA blows your account up. I used to I used to think TA doesn't work until I learned the hard way. >> You'll be interested next week, Jingo says. All right, Jingo. Well, I wish you the best, sir. Um, >> guys.

>> Yeah. All right. So, I don't think TA works. I mean, look, you might be able to interpret something, but I don't know, man. I don't know. I I think TA is more uh in it's more hindsight looking more more more hindsight looking than forwardlooking indicators. >> You think? >> Yeah, I do. And I think fundamentals you can actually put a thesis together that'll give you some insight about what is going to happen in the future, which is what we want to invest in. >> If you're looking at the chart, you're just fundamentally you're looking at what has already happened. And that's why you just if something happens in the future that doesn't align with your TA thesis, you just draw a new line.

Let's move on. Dude, me and Rob used to get so banked and just draw lines on charts, bro. In college, we would just get so banked. Just do TA and then put the leverage on. Put the leverage on. So guys, this is one of my favorite sites. This is a Perpetual Pulse. And >> I was looking at this. They don't have Rise X on here. >> I know it's not big enough. Dude, you good over there? It sounds like you're killing a mouse over there, >> dude. I I said on the show yesterday, but I didn't tell you. I I ate some guinea pig in Peru.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, it was pretty fire. >> Wow. >> And I ate some alpaca. That was gas. >> Yo, Rob, when you get a chance, look up golden ratio in nature. >> No, I know about the golden ratio. Look, I studied mathematics in in in university. Like I'm I'm well aware of Fibonacci sequences and golden ratios and the perfect rectangle, all of it. I I understand and you can fall into some very deep rabbit holes about sacred geometry and why these things exist. I think the fact remains that these are things that you find when you're looking for them.

When you're not looking for them, they still exist, but they don't give you so much insight about what is to happen. >> Right? So, um, yeah, I mean, this is one of my favorite sites, guys. This is Hyper Liqu or this is Perpetual Pulse, and it tells you the OI. So, Hype's back above 10 bill, which is great. Congrats to them. 1010 kind of wiped everybody. So, that's good to see. Um, and you can kind of see like the power law play out where OI volume and I think like what's that website when you do like market cap of Yeah. Here we go.

>> Share your uh You want to share your your other tab there? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what's what could be cool here for this and I've seen seeing this go go go around is this like there's no way that Aster deserves a higher market cap than lighter. There's no way. There's absolutely no way. >> Someone knows CSM1 in the chat. Can you invite standard charter on to see what they are smoking? >> Yeah, cuz they're always saying like like they gave a morpho target of 34x. They give an a target of 3500.

>> Standard charter might be the new Arthur Hayes. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, it's interesting to me though. >> I think I think until Lighter flips Aster, it's probably still a buy >> cuz it's it's probably deservingly the number two. You know, >> this to me is a fundamentals thesis. You can look at the the fundamentals, you can look at the like activity, the OI, you can look at some of these metrics. I'm not saying numbers don't matter. I'm saying the TA when you're just drawing lines on a chart like >> it doesn't matter >> that doesn't matter but you can look at a discounted cash flow you can look at revenue you can look at activity you can look at growth projections all of that matters and I think this is a great example of like how you can potentially >> draw a a conclusion from a thesis by

comparing by doing like a comparative analysis you don't ever hear about this right but you you hear all day technical analysis or fundamental analysis do a comparative analysis look at what is currently overvalued >> and what is currently undervalued and it you can project that these things would normalize over again everything's manipulated time frames are super subjective but if you have this thesis that one is overvalued the other is undervalued you can put together something and just you just have to have a patience and a flexible time horizon >> yeah I agree I thought I thought that was interesting um And yeah, I mean, someone in the chat says, "This sign is

awesome. It has to flip a first, but can it?" Uh, yeah, definitely. So, you just buy tops all day, lol. No, that's not the point. The point is like when the markets are in a massive downtrend, you don't just ape in. Um, the market's been super >> I think they were talking about me because I don't use TA to time my entries. >> Okay. So, how do you look for an entry? I don't know. I that's I mean you you you pull up look these things are overvalued and undervalued relative to one another. >> Um >> but time horizon is the other so time horizon is the other factor here and I think this is where it's like everything's just a difference of time horizon. So, like to to you, I might buy a top when I bought uh Zcash last week,

right? But if I expect Zcash to eat more market share from Bitcoin and my time and I have a flexible time horizon, I'm just going to stay I'm just going to buy it. I'm going to stay patient. I'm going to wait for it to play out. other things, you know, might have more of a sense of urgency and are going to be a little bit more important to like try to get um an under like a like a a value price relative to where the market is at, you know, in a given time time frame. For instance, like Aerrum, we know that this announcement, this this launch is going to go live sometime this month when they're going to come on mainet. I also tend to think that like that might be a local top but they are going to get a ton of flows from

aggregators that are going to be you know directing more order flow to them once they launch and then that is going to end up you know acrewing into their token. So even on that time frame I think it's going to do well but at least with that trade you have some sort of sense of urgency. So I might look at the chart I might say like all right over the last week we're at like the high of the range or the low of the range. But aside from just like looking at like where things tend to like price themselves at, that's about as deep as I get into technical analysis these days. >> Uh Bitcoin's got a huge fight here. Um hype is kind of stalling out at these highs. Um but yeah, if you zoom out on a lot of these, it still looks really

strong. One thing that's absolutely killing my vibe right now is this. Um, it's having it's so you know obviously guys like >> we own a lot of hype like I think you know we you know I think we own seven figures of hype >> is just goated on the sound effects man >> and W's in the >> [ __ ] purr just like oh my god like I don't know what to do here guys it's just it's just like I mean we were so if you look at hype here so the mnav is at 0.94, right? So, we're like clearly at a discount. So, they can't really do anything right now cuz I mean what you know what they could do is sell hype to

buy the stock to get back to MNAV of one. But I don't think they're going to do that. >> We heard from David Sheamus at under MNAV under one. You know what he's going to do? >> What he's going to do? Sell hype? >> He's going to play squash. >> Yeah. Well, that's what he's doing. And he's playing squash. All right. And so like the annoying thing guys is per traded at I mean what it was like per traded at like 1150 on June 1st and if you go to hype on June 1st it was trading at 73 74 75 right and now we're back we're back at 70.4 for we we were at 72 this morning,

right? And PERS just like not getting any big bid and honestly looks like it just wants to go lower. So >> I I'm bullish. >> I find myself with a pretty large bag of hype between what Rob and I hold, what I hold on my own. >> Do you own spot hype? >> Yeah. Like >> Yeah. Yeah. Like like >> but less less than your per position. >> Yes. Like they're Yes. My per position is massive comparatively to net worth and my spot height position is like second but also like massive comparatively to net worth. Like I'm all

in. Like I mean like I mean like our our Bitco account is all in. All my all my exchanges are all in and my brokerage is all in. But the problem here is we got the well, you know, obviously I've been talking to you guys about aerodyrome and lighter and you know, bags that are under like I don't know 100k, 50k, but um Michael Sailor killing all the vibes for DATs right now. Yeah, I agree with that. But so um >> what what was your point here? So my point is just like I don't know what to do here because if I just you know I had re-entered hype like down here at like 58

after kind of getting scared which I shouldn't have gotten scared. Um and per at that point was also down here had that big pop back up but it has not tracked the price of hype on this latest move. But what are you what are you looking at? Rather than looking at the derivative, let's look at the actual. What are what are you seeing here? Read between the lines. What are you seeing here for hype? Like >> I mean, this is ready to go to alltime highs. My take is that we shot tested that resistance once, then we shot again, tested it super hard, but this has been much more of a like methodical rise. And so I think it's just like a methodical rise and then we're going to

blow the lid off. That's my take. Like if we just get Sailor's stuff to chill out for a bit. Bitcoin chills out for a bit. >> I think it's Sailor killing the vibe for Purr. Purr looks awful. Yeah, I know. Pull some profits to play both sides. Well, I'm in both. I would um I mean I just tend to think that like staying patient, zooming out, look at a longer time horizon. Like you look at the weekly on per and it looks fine. You look at the weekly on Hyperliquid and it looks >> Yeah. I mean, even like the 3-day, even like the 3-day, it's just like a consolidation above like it broke out this massive level and now we're just we're just we're just kind of hanging

on. >> My my my risk assessment for hyperl here is that um bare markets tend to die in apathy and I think we feel like we're at the end of the we're like somewhere I don't I don't know. It feels weird. >> I've been saying we have three to four months left. >> Three to four months left in the bear. >> Yeah. Sell covered calls, Andy. I am a smooth brain. I do not know how to do that and I will not touch options. >> Um and so if we I mean let's just play with that theory. If we have three to four months left and bare markets, you know, okay, we can go with three to four months left. And we also think that bare

markets tend to die in apathy. Well, >> perpetual markets are built on like volume trading. >> Exactly. And so, >> it's apathy is not good for volatility. >> And so, you would expect activity volatility volatility thus activity thus revenue thus fees, thus value acrruel to dwindle as we reach the end of the bear and come back when we restart the bull. My thing is like what is going to restart the bolt like >> in another month or two we're going to get more IPOs SpaceX

I don't know what do we have any sort of like lasting effects any like supply overhang from SpaceX I don't know I don't know but I I know Open AI and Anthropic are not doing their IPOs this year what yeah you didn't you didn't catch that while you were gone someone's is nuking this thing, huh? You didn't catch that. >> Hold on. I'm looking at Poly Market. >> Yeah, I'm pretty positive they're not doing them. So, that's also another interesting thing that maybe affects the thesis. >> 60 60% that the anthropic IPO happens by December, but only 10% that it happens by the end of September.

So people are pricing it around they're poing pricing it at a coin flip between in Q4 >> at least anthropic open AI >> oh 20% that it happens by the end of the year. >> So >> yeah it's funny what happens when you ask chatb about its own company's IPL. >> What does it say? >> Says anthropic 70 to 80% open AI 50 to 70%. Does that align with the prediction markets or is that different? >> Totally. That that's if I had to sign probability that it happens. >> Yes, >> that's totally different. Open AAI says it's 80% that it's not happening this year. Anthropic >> No, that it is. Oh, >> no. No. According to the prediction market, it's 80% that it's not happening. And Anthropic, it's a coin

flip. 50/50 that it happens in November, December. >> Just curious, what's your target for hype? Honestly, this goes into whole Robbie's thesis about like what's your time horizon? Like my target for this summer, if BTC plays nice, is over a 100red for Q1, Q2 next year. I don't know, man. 200 200 by Q2. End of Q2, 200. 250. Um so >> okay I would yeah I think time horizon and then I think the question becomes like okay within this year like how much volatility and how much larger does the

asset class grow >> and how much market share does it take from centralized exchanges um so has been outperforming hype for the last 30 days barely but it has >> I remember when we flipped >> yeah that was a fun stream Where are we at these days? >> Hype is at 70 and >> so Framegrass is 600. Folks realizing they're overhyping AI and their prospects to generate revenue in the future. Zama has 10 billion tokens. That's why I stayed out. Clarity Act will drag on till the election. 100% RWA is going to start to bull.

>> What does that mean? RWA is going to start the bull. >> Yeah, what does that mean? >> RWA are like everything. Andy, do you think we should sell lit before December unlocks? >> It's honestly just depending on the market conditions. I don't know. It's hard to read anything out right now longer than the summer bounce that we're getting. >> Yeah. Um I don't know. I mean, I got to think to myself like it feels relevant that those IPOs are delayed.

So, I got some intel on Dive. Um, I heard that they've got some revenue here. >> So, this chart for Derive has been one of the best performers since the beginning of the year. So, they started off this year in at about 5 cents. So, they've doubled this year. One of the best performers of the whole year. and they're doing really solid revenue numbers and they have some interesting stuff coming.

So, I'm interested. I'm interested. I'm interested. Got a I had a a rumor the rumor mill is pinging on this one yesterday. So something for you guys who are watching live who dedicated to the show always coming up. I think it's interesting. I think uh on a three-month hold, two to three month hold, I think it works. I think it works really well. >> Anything from our quant recently? >> No, had not talked to our quant at all as of late.

>> Zcash looks incredible. >> I mean, I'm pretty sure he's just aping Zcash in size. I mean, this thing looks fantastic. >> I just think like I mean, the everything sort of looks similar >> in the sense that like, you know, you kind of have, if you look at this, you look at Hyperlid, you look at Mir, you kind of got like that double topish looking thing. >> What is that? Lighter. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, they do look similar. Like we need to break out here or else we're >> for another round of the bear.

>> Yeah. Are we gonna push through that that double top highs that we made? Like, >> dude. So, I was on the stream on like I don't know, it was like last Thursday or something and I was watching this on a different market and dude, this thing wicked to like $3 and then instantly retraced and I think it was a bug. It was It was crazy. Guys, in the chat if you remember that um say something in the chat cuz that was wild. We saw a God candle live. It was wild. hype is it stealing market cap from existing networks eg Salana versus net new buyers to the end I think the next cryp bull market crypto is where current value concentrates so I think yes so my take on this is like hype

to soul so like my take is like this is going to compress 3x is going to compress And so I think like and I put out this tweet I was like hyperlquid is underowned amongst Bitcoin, Ethereum and Soul Wales. I mean the same for lighter for sure. But I think I think you can make the argument that the rotation that is happening that has allowed hype to do well this summer has been large whales rotating in versus new money coming in.

I think that's a fair assumption. I think it's a fair assumption. Been holding derive since four cents. Heard Hayes talk about it a few years ago. Sean, I think you're going to have a nice end of Q Q3. That's all I'll say. No one talking about Bitcoin Cash. Rob, what is your guy's name who does the sounds? Buddy's hilarious. >> His name's Aon. >> We're gonna put him on the streets of New York. He's ready. >> He's going on the streets of New York.

Is a ton available for a little a little power hour? >> Yeah, I think he is. I think he needs a power hour. I think he's going to take my spot. >> Can we get a ton in here? >> I think we can get a ton in here. I'm going to give him my chair. >> I'm going to take the screen. Do a little power hour robin. >> Let's do it. Let's spend. >> Bro, BCH is dead AF. Dude, who is looking at Bitcoin Cash? Whoa. Apparently someone. I mean, never mind. Thing fell off a cliff. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We're dumping a little bit now. Um let's get a let's get a ton in here for a good 5 10 minutes. Power hour. >> Yeah. He's coming. He's coming. Yeah. Uh perhaps a super stake, but how do we get a bull run when everyone is using per instead of buying spot? I don't know. know if you look at the hypo liquid ETFs and a lot of the other ETFs, we actually seeing more inflows to Bitcoin and the ETFs than we have in a long time. Lighter with the market cap of hype is money. Yeah. I mean, money is one one money is one way to put it.

That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah. So, Polyark is uh launching a token. >> Yeah. Did you see that? >> Yeah. >> Or they're at least asking about tokconomics. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. We'll go to Rob and we get it on and power hour.

There we go. Love to see it. We're uh we're making it happen out here. Yeah. I'm big fan of lighter. I think the pers uh rally continues. Hit me up in the chat, guys. What are you guys thinking? Lighter with a market cap of hype. Uh perhaps is a stupid take, but how do we get a bull run when everyone is using per instead of buying spot? Yeah, it's a lot of derivative paper getting getting tossed around. But uh you know these things ultimately do track like per track the price of spot and vice versa. So they they drag one up with the other. Um I like money. Yeah.

No CSM. So do I. Uh next bull run will probably be only real projects that actually make money. We will never see a 2021 bull run again. New type. I hear you. I think it makes sense what you're saying. I think we're going to get um we will get a bull run. Uh if you look at the project that we had on today, I mean we had extended, they're making money to the tune of like hundreds of thousands per day. Uh we had Rise on again making money uh to the tune of like you know tens of thousands per day. Um and so these are real companies making real money. How much of that upside is going to be shared with us through buying their tokens?

This remains to be seen. Bullish PES volume will lead to higher spot volume due to funding rates. That is true. Uh I think we will end up with something like that. Uh I think you also have um you also have uh monetary conditions that are probably come uh probably easing. Um I think we already passed peak hawkishness with Kevin Worsh. So I think we end up in a place where monetary conditions are a little bit friendlier. Um we've gone through this maturation process in the market where teams are more aware of fundamentals and we end up in a place where look these things like the bad companies die

the good companies stick around and we end up in a place where a rising tide lifts all boats. We've talked about the tokenization super cycle. We've talked about the neo finance thesis. There's our boy. Yo we here. We got power hour with a ton. Aton, we brought you up so we could hear about the new the newest segment coming to the rollup and also to get your take on a few things. Aton on the streets of New York or intern power hour in New York live. Can you just give us a little bit of what to expect with this segment?

Well, number one I could say is to you could expect the unexpected in a sense where like it's New York City like the World Cup, the sports, the Knicks, like this is a city where you can't expect anything. This is where we're going to get an unfiltered pulse of what's actually happening with the people, what's in their wallets, what are they trading, what are they investing, what are their thoughts instead of hearing to us all the time. We want to definitely head to the streets of the New York and get a pulse of what the people are thinking. on like you know what what you're saying makes a ton of sense because obviously we've integrated the chat as of recently W's in the chat and so we know that there's people out here they're watching they're listening they're tuning in and they are

contributing to the show literally you guys in the chat new type Edward Kings Clips all you guys freedom guy you guys are c like characters on this show you guys make the show possible and a ton I think what what you're getting at is that you're going to go out there and you're going to find and you're going to cast a wide net, you're going to find even more characters out there on the streets. >> Exactly. There's anytime you watch like any of your famous like interviewers and they always have like that one guest or person they interview that absolutely no matter what's going on always puts a smile on their face or like makes you laugh or just always provide something of like insight. That's what we're going for. Even if it's not the same person, just finding it's New York. My favorite

part about like living in New York is that it's a boiling pot of like different people alto together. So I think that's going to be really fun just meeting different people and like what their like strategy is. >> I know it's I know it's hot up there. I think you meant melting pot but it is warm up there. Hopefully hopefully you guys aren't boiling in the studio. >> It's definitely going to be boiling. It's definitely going to be boiling on the streets when I'm out there. >> Um and so you know we're going to get you out there. You're going to be talking to a bunch of new people. We're going to hear what people have to say and and and it's going to be real.

Freedom guy says, "I've had my plan working since 2017. Lots of huddle and accumulation. Now it's about get to the fun and profitable part. Love me some NYC." Aton, what is your strategy out there right now? What are you holding? What are you looking at? What where are you spending most of your attention? >> A lot on Twitter just scrolling whether it's split between like the rollup or looking at like different of like our contemporaries in the space. just always having like a pulse of like monitoring the situation um and using that as like edge like a lot of time we do like this TA but a lot of time like I you get a lot of signal from like our show whether it's um uh people coming on the show talking about like new technologies that

they're rolling out and like seeing that early and like sort of like having a a strategy. So, I've been on the hyperlquid wave, the purr wave, the near lighter. Uh, yeah. So, I'm bullish on all of that because once you're like around it so much, maybe it is a bit of an echo chamber, but at at one point I started to actually believe it that like this is the technology I see the world moving towards. So, the strategy has just been >> stay with the star money, lower the risk down a little bit, and just slowly slowly stack capital. Yeah, I think that's what it's all about, man. Cash flow and uh outperformance is is what we're going for. Um do you think we're

gonna we're going to talk to some of these people on the streets and like are you know we Andy and I have talked a lot about this, right? We've been you know having uh guests from around the industry. They've they've come on the show. We've been doing this for years. They come on and time and time again we find ourselves being like, "Man, if only we listened to that person that was on the show. if only we bought what they were selling, right? Like it typically there's a track record of people coming on, they tell us about product announcements, they tell about launches, they tell us about fundamentals. If we buy the coins that people are talking about on the show, it tends to do well and and we oftent times find ourselves kicking ourselves for not doing that.

Sometimes it works and and you know, we're really happy. Do you think the people of New York have a similar level of credibility? Like if someone is walking around New York, you you walk up to them, they're telling us, "Dude, you got to buy Intel stock or you got to buy Micron or this semiconductor ETF." Like, should we be taking the advice of the people from the streets? Taking the advice ify like 50/50, I will say we'll definitely give them a voice. Like these aren't I mean, we don't know their credibility. Like the people we have on our show are like people who have like track records and credibility. But I like the question because the people of New York will like these are the people who will have like the plus 20,000 parlay tickets or like they'll have like the secret sauce of like some stock I

probably never heard of and I have to hit this lotto option buy call. So I think so to a certain extent like if I'm feeling risky or like maybe I hit a bet before and I have like a some capital lying around like yeah we'll we could do some yolo plays for sure. >> Ton we're going to get you a sponsor for this show. Uh, we're working on it as we speak. Um, and I have a feeling I just have a feeling that the sponsor is going to come from the prediction market industry. I just something about like the the volatility like not volatility of the markets themselves, but like the I don't want to say chaos. It's just the like the breadth of the variety. That's how I want to put it. The variety of what you can find on a prediction market

feels very similar to the variety of what you can expect on the streets of New York. So it feels like um it feels like a prediction market is is you know the right partner for this. So I want to get your take on a couple of uh trending prediction markets. First obviously we've had games all across the United States and all AC across the North American continent. World Cup is happening. Who do you have winning this thing this entire tournament? >> I like France. I like France to take it. A lot of like they are the favorites. It's very easy to pick, but just like looking at the teams remaining, England, Morocco, like Switz, Colombia, like I just think France is the strongest. The the only one I'm worried about is Spain

beating them because I feel like Spain has their number recently. Lame looks like he's the next GOAT, but I I I'm predicting I'm not betting. I'm predicting that France will win. >> I think so. I you know, they're they're the favorite right now. Mbappé is just he's dominant. Messi and and Argentina squeaked by so they are looking a little bit weak. Uh they only squeak by Egypt. So not really sure how that's going to work out. >> They also squeak by Cape Verde. I hope I didn't just butcher the country's name, but they they also uh robbed them also of that victory.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The the sleeper I think is Norway because they just feel like they're just >> they've just got like a warrior spirit. They're that that you know it's hard to beat someone who >> Holland they legit have an actual Viking on their team like with like god-given genetics ready to just like >> do whatever. >> Yeah. Yeah. Pretty pretty insane. Um okay so that's the World Cup. Uh we talked a little bit about the IPOs. Um Oohan I know you're a Knicks fan but who do you think is the next team for LeBron?

you we heard fingers old fingers point towards Ohio Cleveland like if he's going to retire might as well retire at home >> right >> I think he goes go plays with Steph Curry like he's mentioned it on so many times that like he wants to play with the best shooter of all time and like it's fun basketball playing with someone like Curry um and if they're able to also pull off signing Anthony Davis and have like a huge reunion >> I I know last time they tried to do this on the Lakers ers with like Carmelo that absolutely botched it. They they [ __ ] the bed hard. But I think it would be different because the Warriors have like a system. They have a some good younger core. If they don't have to give them up though

I I predict I'll predict Golden State. >> Okay. >> I think the guys >> Golden State. Yeah, they're second up. Cleveland Okay. Cleveland is uh uh the favorite there, but Golden State's second best there. >> Yeah. >> Um Atan, you like politics >> some extent. >> We got a couple of elections coming up. We got the midterm elections here in the States in November. We've got the next uh prime minister of Israel. If you're tracking that one, >> they're always they're always uh voting for the next prime minister. You have to look into how they um do the voting because I have to we could cover. It's actually very interesting because once a

prime minister is actually elected, they have to go ahead and form a coalition in like the parliament over there and if they're not able to do it, then they have to like redo the votes. So that's why like you always hear something about like the voting and like Israeli politics because like it's so difficult to get like the whole consensus to like buy into an idea. So it's like I what is it called? Not filibusting. Maybe it's Gary man. Yeah, I think it is filibuster. Yeah, filibuster I think is when they they like they just stay in there for like days on end and they just continue debating. Um but yeah, it sounds like they need a they need to reach a majority uh like in order to like actually get someone elected. So we think Netanyahu is going to stick around.

>> I think so. I think he's for the duration of the war like a wartime prime minister. Like he's the guy. >> Okay. >> Can't just like throw like a rookie into that situation. That's pretty tough. >> Yeah, that's facts. Um, what about here in the US? People are bearish Newsome and they're bullish. AOC, >> he mogs. Look, whatever his policies are, they're probably whack. I probably don't agree with them whatsoever. They're probably whack, but like the guy mogs and like I've heard that like people just want to vote for him cuz he is a very good-looking guy. Um, it's really weird. I think this next like even presidential election, you're going to see like what we saw with like New York City where it's like they're all going to lean into the memes. They're

going to go all in on clipping. They're all going to go in on this like goofy uh distribution. And I think it's going to work. I think it's going to like like my age like and people who are able to vote for the first time like they're going to go after them. And I think you'll start to see I think it's already starting. You already see it with the Californiaifornian. Yeah. >> And even New York. It's pretty interesting right now because no one is above a 20% chance to win. Uh JD Vance is at 20%. Marco Rubio is at 14%. Um I think Marco Rubio would be a decent president. Uh Gavin Newsome 12%, AOC 8%.

So you've got like a ton of you've got four underdogs. No one is priced at higher than you know a four to five to one chance at winning the presidency. So there's there's money being made here. Um you know what an interesting prediction market strategy here would be like you know people are probably they're all going to have their time to shine if you will like probably all four of those guys. Just imagine you buy all four. You buy Vance, yes. You buy Rubio, yes. AOC, yes. And you buy Newsome, yes. And obviously not all of them can win, but you don't you don't buy them for them to win. you buy them for them to like pump when they like say something good or they win a debate and you sell and then

you just kind of trade it rather than like buy it for resolution. It's so funny you say that because I saw the same strategy for the World Cup whenever like this was like early when they had like all the winners France this that and the odds to win were like I want to say like less than 10 whatever it was like 8% but for like >> whatever it is like six seven different countries and yeah that was the strategy they said to like as soon as one country would pop off boom close the position close the position I'm curious if that guy ended up making money. Yeah, I hope he did. Guys, I think that is the end of in uh Eton Power Hour. Um the end of today's show. Aton, thank you so much, man, for joining. I'm excited to have you on the streets of New York. Very,

very exciting to launch new segments. Another great show, guys. Thanks for rocking with us. Um yeah, maybe LeBron goes to Miami, maybe France wins the World Cup, maybe AOC is our next president. Who knows? Doesn't matter. Here at the rollup, we're going to be bringing you guys everything that you need to know and thinking through it. Guys, we will see you tomorrow, same time. Uh, stay patient. Zoom out a little bit, touch some grass, and we'll see you tomorrow. >> I was going to say lower the mic. >> Peace, ladies and gentlemen. >> Nice. >> I think he closed it.

>> I never noticed that. >> Yo, Leo, keep it rolling. It's not too late. Oh >> yeah, I'm back. Got to close it out. You gota I'll show you how to close out, Rob. >> Leo, man. >> Yeah. Here we go, guys. We're back. Robbie uh Robbie left you guys down with that close out. You know, it was uh there was no W's in the chat. Like, like, first of all, we need W's in the chat. First of all, we need W's in the chat. Please. Freedom guy, Greg, Little Miss Gun, Ton, King's Clips, Sigma Slayer, I love this show. We love you, Miss Gun. Thank you for being a part of it, guys. We're going to be with We're going to be with you every single day.

We're going to rock with you, bare or bull, we're going to outperform the market. We own the best coins. We have the thesis. We have the long-term mindset. We're spot bulls. We're long-term spot bulls. That's what we do. We don't trade leverage. We don't get over excited about the little bump, a little dump. We're long-term spot bulls. And we're going to outperform the market by picking the right assets, holding them, having the mental fortitude to hold them. We're going to keep winning. We're going to keep showing up every single day. We're just going to keep winning. And we're going to do W's in the chat. We're going to be here tomorrow. You know where to find us. The capital of the financial world, the Empire Estate Building, the tokenization tower. Whether we're up, whether we're down, we're going to be here and we're

going to win. We're already winning. We're already outperforming the entire market this entire last quarter. I mean, it's been it's been it's been down only and our portfolios have been up. What else can we do, guys? We can just keep doing it. Spot only long-term horizons, big mega trends. We're still early. Yeah, we're back. Miss Kevin says we're back. Thanks, bro. Guys, all of you guys, give us a like. Smash a like on YouTube. Turn the notifications on. Means a lot to us. We really appreciate it. We love you guys. You guys make the show possible. You mean you guys make the show fun. So guys, W's in the chat and tomorrow 12:30 p.m. Eastern, you know where to find us. You know where

we'll be. That was the intern. Actually, it is not. He's no longer the intern. He's the He's the president of the soundboard. It's a [ __ ] promotion. Guys, we're going to be so rich. Freedom guy says W's Nang Chan. Guys, it's on. Stay strong. Stay bullish. Stay zoomed out. Stay longterm. Don't listen to TA guys like Rob. And uh you're going to make it. You're going to make it. Just make sure that you have a pelican of art behind you cuz it's really it's it's it's it's really cute. It's really cute.

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