🚨LIVE: STRC Under $80?! Strategy FUD At ATHs! HOLD The Line! Fede & Kubi Join, Then Kled & Story

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Heat. [music] [music] [music] Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Thank [music] you.

Lord, [music] [music] we'll see you around the timeline. Feels [music] good to be back. >> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier [music] media [singing] brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding it to my library every potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at the connect day [music] one here. I'll see you guys soon.

[music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> Ah, [music] [music] heat. Heat up

>> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> here. JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions.

It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish. He said it. He finally said it. I'm so bullish. It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat.

[music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Heat up here.

Heat. [music] [music] Heat. N. A rollup is headed [music] to the top.

If we're not already at the top, we're going to the tugos. >> Roll up is my favorite. People >> from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat.

>> [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the next. See you on the show. Yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo. My people, my people, my people at the glass house. This is where I just was doing a tokenization panel. Bunch of people wearing suits, looking dressed up, looking like they know what they're doing. You know what I asked? You know what I asked those people on the suits

in the panel today? I said, "We'll do some introductions, ladies and gentlemen, please, and tell me when was the last time you looked at the Bitcoin price?" Person one, I haven't checked in a while. Last I looked it was high 60s. Total lie. Person two, ah, it was around like 62, 63. Person three, the truth. The truth and nothing but the truth. I checked 15 seconds ago. We're at 58K. Boom. Bang. Guys, what is happening with Michael Sailor, with strategy, with freaking hype, with these with our portfolio?

We're going to get into all of it today. It is a lovely Thursday from the tokenization tower. It is Thursday, June 25th. You are watching the rollup live from the tokenization tower, the nest powered by our friends at Plume. Building onchain infrastructure, the future of asset management live from the financial capital world. We have a great show ahead. We have got our lovely friends from Aligned, Kobe from Gatka, and Fede from Aligned. It's going to be a great show with them. They built this amazing new prop AMM on chain. really really cool happening on Ethereum. They're making a ton of money and they're they're pumping a lot of volume.

Kind of could be a future DEX competitor there. And then Story and Kled AI AI AI AI. May I say it again? AI. GM James, good to see you. Good morning to all to all of the rest who are here today on this fine fine Thursday morning. Look guys, I know, I know, I know. I came on the show yesterday. Edward, if you're in the chat already, you were long 5x on stretch and I believe one of our your counterparties was short. I believe that long probably got blown out unfortunately from the $82 candle down to the $73 stretch for a $100 pegged

stable yield asset. The pitchforks are out for Michael Sailor, ladies and gentlemen. And I still don't think it's that bad. I still think the FUD is overextended. I still think it's not that bad. I'm going to stand by my sweep the lows thesis, find a nice low, and we're going to move higher. And we might not be higher by Q3, the end of Q3, but I'm I'm sticking to it. I'm sticking to it. As always, our topics are powered by our friends at Treasure. Use code rollup10 at treasure.io to get yourself a new hardware wallet. Might as well buy a big dog as well. Help you secure your coins at home. Ladies and gentlemen, we're live from tokenization tower.

Let's get into the show. First, let me tell you about FRA. Building infrastructure, the future of digital money, open, stable, borderless. For more information and start using the future of digital money today, visit frack.com. Guys, it is 79°. It's beautiful out here in New York City. As I said, I went to the tokenized this panel. was fantastic. Bunch of suits. We talked about tokenized equities. I had a couple Tradfi guys come up to me after saying that the panel was really, really solid, that they thoroughly enjoyed it. Um, which was nice to hear. It's nice to see that, you know, big money is finally in the room, especially in New York. You know, Wall Street's just down south.

>> Um, so good to good good good to have that experience this morning. 79. Beautiful day. I'm I got a Rufus to Soul concert tonight. It's going to be epic. It's going to be electric. is at MSG and US is playing Turkey tonight in the World Cup. And I know the coins are down bad, guys. I know they are. I know they are. But you know how I feel about this. We're going to be all right. We're going to be all right. As always, our weather is powered by our friends at Relay. Visit relay.link to start swapping seamlessly today. Let's get into the markets. Before we do, let me tell you about our tokenized equities partner, Dinari. Trade SpaceX onchain on Hyperlid with Dinari. Invest in anything from anywhere and do more with your stocks.

GM GM boys. Unless if you're Michael Sailor. Yeah, new type. That seems to be the state of affairs. Stretch at 76. >> Embarrassing. >> Yikes. Dropped down at 73.63 hit the lows. Bitcoin under 60. My mom texted me and said, "Thank God, son. I sold my crypto several months ago. It's crashing. Bottom signals everywhere. there. ETH, I mean, someone's got to rip the band-aid off of that thing. Same thing with Salana, I think. Chain link near both at the lowest levels that we've seen them in a while. Band-aid's getting ripped off, boys. I'm finding some solace in at least a little bit of

a hyperlid bounce, but man, man, man, I mean, we're going to close probably today under 60 for the first time in a long time. And first time I mean first time really ever this year we I mean today's new lows. Today is officially the continuation of the bearish trend on Bitcoin. Um >> which after the micron earnings you would have thought that that maybe we would have seen a bounce but the AI trade is not even going to be able to pull that off. Coins are down vibes are up. I agree James. Uh hype's down purr's down. Um, coins are down, but uh, like I said, guys, and like I've been saying,

this is the tail end of the bear, the tail end. And I think that we are closer to the end than the beginning. But the problem is that the pain the pain can be strong in this face. So, we're going to talk about the markets and the charts more and Michael Sailor and strategy right now. I'm just kind of just hanging on seeing what's going on. GM Mora, good to see you, buddy. Um, and we're going to just kind of keep pushing forward. So, we're good here. The suits are in the room.

Everything's all right. Let's just let's just stay on top of it. As always, our market prices are powered by our friends at Zama. Building confidential blockchain infrastructure using fully homorphic encryption. Try their new portfolio tool. Send any stable coin or Zama tokens confidentially across two different EVM wallets whenever you want. Let's get into the news, guys. Before we do, let me tell you about Near. Your home for building, discovering, and using onchain applications, one account, no borders. Your financial life on chain all on Near. You ain't got tail in a while, though. I am not the guy that you need to be worrying about getting tail.

I'll tell you that, James. But that is all good. That is not part of the conversation today. If it was, I would not be going to the Rufus concert. Trust me. You think I'm going to the Rufus concert alone? I don't think I'm going to the Rufus concert solo. That is not a solo conversation. All right. Unis swap launches no code auction tool and challenge to pump fund. UniS swap, one of DeFi's largest decentralized exchange, has launched a no code tok token auction tool. The same day this news comes out is the same day that our boy Pumped Fon Allen puts a post out offering1 to5 million salary for a chief legal officer position. I saw a nice quote tweet that said, >> "Well, you're getting paid 5 million a year to end up in prison." Um, the tool

uses UniS swap's continuous clearing auction system, which clears bids across multiple blocks and gives all successful biders the same final clearing price. This moves pushes unis swap deeper into the token launch market. Unis swap's going into the token launch market. James says bet. He liked that one. Um and a drum is going more into the onchain liquidity dominating tokenized equities market. Who's going to win? I don't know. I'm seeing on the timeline also today. Not only are we blaming Michael Sailor for the dump, we're also blaming pump.comfon for ruining crypto. I don't think that's fair. I think that's But you know, people want to be mad at somebody. I actually, you know, our our good friend uh the guy who tweets once every three months,

Chris Chris Prinsky tweeted that uh everyone's going to blame Sailor for what's what's coming, but it was always on on the table in the cards. You know, I think that's right. Let's keep it moving. Um into the some more of the regulatory conversations between the contrast between European Union's Micah framework versus uh the US's Genius Act. Clearly, the the EU has been behind on the regulatory side. So, if you guys are watching from the EU, you guys are struggling right now on the regulatory side. Um, but this this video from Ran, Ran's been on the show a couple times.

Um, he's talking about the Genius Act and the and the Mika registrations and legislations. Again, Coinbase just got their Mika license yesterday in the EU from Luxembourg. So, that was a pretty important move for them. Let's hear from Rand quickly here. clarity is finally arriving to the US, to Europe, to some parts of Asia. What do you think is the most impactful legislation right now and why? >> I think that the Genius Act has been the most impactful one. Mika came out first >> and people were excited about Mika because people were like, "Wow, this is a regulation in Europe that can help us, you know, trailblaze through digital

assets." And these guys in the US, this was like uh when was this? This was 20 I would say 23 24 25 coming in really right now 26 coming into effect. But the US was in stagnation mode, right? Nothing was happening. Mika looked like the holy grail of frameworks and regulations. Fast forward 26, Mika is feels like for a lot of people in Europe like we need to adapt it a bit better because it feels like it's taking us it time. It takes all the companies time to get these licenses. There's another CASP license that you need to adhere to.

You're probably already an EMI. There's some confusion. Yeah, at the same time Genius Act that happened, you know, around 25 >> really allowed all these financial institutions, banks, um, you know, issuers of real world assets or money market funds today, uh, and even like FinTech to feel way more comfortable in the US and I think that actually propagated. >> I I think the EU is still really really far behind and they have some serious work to do on reg on legislation for crypto. They're banning um, Binance.

their license will be done by the end of the month. Um, and their central bank is trying to build a CBDC. So, God bless America and let's get this damn Clarity Act in by the end of the month or by by the end of July at least, please. That would be amazing. That would be a lovely to see. We need that. Um, and that would be good. So, they're not much there. I'm just waiting for clarity. That's our only if you guys didn't see the episode with Robbie and Hester Purse, the commissioner of the SEC, it's on our YouTube. Um, great episode. Great episode. I would highly recommend listening to it. All right, let's keep it rolling. Before we do, let me tell you about Infinifi, building

DeFi infrastructure for simpler access to onchain yield, liquidity, and capital allocation. To explore more efficient onchain finance, visit infinifi.xyz. Spark is launching the stable coin FX layer. So, I haven't really heard much from Spark since the A kelptow incident, but basically what where we're going on chain is we're just looking at all the pockets of of financial services and fintech and we're bringing them on chain. And that's what we're doing and we're doing it at scale. Um, and basically what Spark's doing here is tackling what is the what I've came to learn is the biggest financial layer in the entire world is the FX market. And so Spark is launching the stablecoin FX

lay with unis swap that brings approximately $150 million of liquidity to unis swap v4 across the first USDs pyusd and USDs USDT pools. Um and basically the idea here is to eventually grow into the new new kind of onchain forex market is kind of where we're going here. And so I've started to realize through a lot of the conversations is there's all these little pockets where there's tr tons of middlemen. There's tons of middlemen um in this in these markets and basically in these markets there's there's there's all these little pockets of trillions of dollars, billions of dollars of volume

and spreads happening and uh there's little those little pieces to to pick up. And so I think you know a lot of these DeFi companies that we've been talking about including Spark, including A Uniswap Aeradrome Hyperlquid Lighter, these all have a very unique opportunity right now to uh really grab a piece of the pie. And the pie is huge. It's going to keep growing. And I think that that there's going to be there's going to be more of this. How it affects Spark's token, Uniswap's token, Aerome's tokens, a hyper etc. you know, still yet to be seen, but like we're going to expect more of this financial services takeover from the industry at large. And so, I'm expecting to to see more and

more of that. All right, guys. We're going to move into our next piece before we get FedEd and Kooby. Kobe up here. Kooby. Kooby. These guys are gigabrains building block space on chain. Let's let's hear what Laura Shin's uh podcast has to say. We'll scroll down. Ethereum's qual has always been communication. Being a super smart, talented developer and being a communicator is not necessarily synonymous. Luca Nets talking about why he thinks Ethereum's issue is the communication less so the uh product or the token or more.

What's your what's your sense in terms of like the external ETH comms around like, okay, we've got a new group of people that are going to like really solve some problems. What are the problems that they should be going out and solving and and telling people they're going to solve? It's an interesting one because I think like I always felt like Vitalik always in terms of like what Ethereum needed to succeed and I think his problems that I think he's addressed that I think they've been working to solve I think the core foundation's been working to solve are probably the right ones.

Obviously, this is like a different group. And so, when I look at this group, um, you know, obviously, it's like the big treasury holders. I'm kind of with you, Kane. I don't know what 15-minute finality like what difference that makes. Clearly, it makes a difference to somebody though. like I would probably take the bet and trust, you know, the the M&R team and other of those teams that are having conversations with institutions that like that is a problem somehow some way. Like I don't think that's not I don't think that's just like they picked, you know, uh the >> No, it's probably not arbitrary. It's probably not that's fair. It's probably not arbitrary. Like they probably picked

something that they think will be beneficial. It's just like fact that all three of us are like the is this thing is not amazing. >> Yeah. And to that point like I I think their qual I think just Ethereum's quam is >> all right we can hit pause on this. Um I'm actually going to talk to Fed and Ky about this and I know FedE has his opinions. And we're going to start there actually on this next guest segment because I mean we're launching a 15minute finality as the core technical breakthrough here for for Ethereum and the holders are like what is happening? What is happening? I

mean I see Fede in the background right now. The guy is fired up. The guy is fired up. So we're going to talk Ethereum. We're we're going to talk prop AMMs. We're gonna talk trading and more. And man, is gonna be good to have these guys on. These these guys are real real gigab brains. Uh Freedom Guy says he's got a bag of Spark. Um okay, cool. Nice. I think it's a decent bet. Uh let's see. What is that thing doing? SBK, is that the token? Well, it's pumping today off the lows. But yeah, it had that full Where did that A thing happen? Was that in April that that happened? That was

That's when Spark had that massive run up. Wow. It's fully retraced the A move. Yikes man. I don't know. Freedom guy. I am not I'm I mean I mean we just ran the alltime lows in the thing. So if there was ever a maximum point of financial opportunity, it was right here. Edward says, "Can anyone here buy STRC? I'm about to get liquidated. See, I knew you were gonna come back today because you were 5x long STRC at $82 yesterday and then somebody else in the chat was was short. So, all right guys, we're going to get Fede and Kooie up. We're going to start with Ethereum. We're

going to start with ETH Labs. We're going to start with what's coming there. Fede Kubby, guys. Good to have you. Uh, welcome to the show, >> man. Good to be here. >> Nice to see you. Last last time I saw you, Andy, was in Bokeh. >> Yeah, that's right. I actually just went to a Norway Sagal game here in New York on Monday. It was 3-2. Was electric. Um, shout out to Messi for you, Fede. I don't know, Kubie. Are you cheering for England? Is that your team? >> Well, England, um, Germany, and Ghana. >> All right. Wow. This guy spray and pray, huh?

>> Love it. [laughter] >> All right, gentlemen. Um, I know we have a lot to talk about on the AMM side, on the trading side, on on Ethereum and the work that you guys are doing, but I just wanted to start just briefly to get both of your opinions on the state of the Ethereum Foundation separation, uh, ETH Labs spin out from some of the core contributors to the Ethereum Foundation, some of the more notable technical ones, and there's just been a lot of rhetoric as of late. And obviously you guys are building this new product directly on Ethereum itself and so you guys have a lot of core ties and Kooie and Fede both deep understanding of block space me supply chain etc. So let's start there

and then we'll get into what you guys are building. FedE starting with you man. Um what is your what is your view on the state of Ethereum post ETH labs post Ethereum foundation cutting 20% of the staff? >> I think this is something very good forum on crypting general. I think the EF uh should focus on protecting the tail risks uh of capture of the blockchain um the social layer of defending against uh security attacks u adding privacy on the other one um but sometimes he tried to do too many things and there's new people stepping up to do uh the rest like people wanted the on

vital to do too many things and he cannot do that like so I think it's great I am a supporter of the Idlav um we committed small amount of money. I think there's going to be more organizations like the ETH lab appearing in the months to come. I have been saying things like this for the last few weeks. Uh um uh and I think it's good for ecosystem like I don't see anything as bad. Also, I'm in favor of the EF fighting people. Uh I think there's amazing people in the UF. like the level of professionalism of Justin Drake, Will, Kev, it's people that are so talented. Uh on I would hire them anytime. Uh they're very very smart. But they also had a lot of people that from

my point of view lack some experience, didn't have a connection with the market, uh were not so great on I think I'm a person that fires people every day almost. So or every week at least. Uh so I when I hire people I always tell them like we fire 70 80% of the people in the first year on I am a person profiring on creating a feedback loop to to remove the slack and keep the great people. So I think it's great. >> Kubby uh anything to add there? >> Yeah, very much uh aligned with that. I think um the key edge that Ethereum has had for a long time is really focusing on the robustness of the ecosystem and the decentralization the core properties

and that was I think the strongest value ad that Ethereum has in the space and so naturally the Ethereum foundation is really good at that stuff. So I think actually being more focused from the EF and then having separate bodies that focus on the other things that the EF wasn't as good at is um actually the right way to go. And I think the positive thing is also that a lot of the people that are spinning up the these new organizations actually are all core Ethereum people um or people that have been in the space and so it's not like um they are leaving the ecosystem because they no longer believe in Ethereum. So overall bullish >> and and we had this Glamsterdam update

looming as well. Um that's looking like it's more delayed to Q3 with this extended version of of proposer builder separation. Without getting too deep into kind of the Ethereum itself, wanted to bring you guys here to just speak about this ever growing market of what people are calling prop AMMs. And I understand that there's quite a bit of nuance here into kind of how this works, why it's effective in capital efficiency and maintaining really solid pricing for onchain discovery on chain specifically on Ethereum. And so Kobe, building off of your experience building Gatka and and doing a ton of work on in the Ethereum kind of block space pipeline, what what was the the thought or the

vision to build what you guys are building on the AMM space on the trading space? What is the core problem that you identified early on from your kind of in-depth experience and knowledge that led you to want to take a stab at what you're current what you're currently building? >> Yeah. So I think um the the birth of the AMM was one of the great innovations in DeFi, right? Um and that sparked like all of this activity and that all this um financial transactions that are now happening not just on Ethereum but the broader ecosystem. And then Ethereum historically has attracted the most amount of assets on chain. So it's the highest value assets uh chain by

far. Um but because of the slower block times of Ethereum, the velocity of these assets uh were quite low and some of the other chains. So for example, Solana that have much much faster block times and so the the trading experience or the just the experience overall interacting with a chain like that felt more continuous with the real world as um and so that was a place where this idea of propm was actually born um last year and once propm launched on Solana it really started taking a lot of the volume away from AMMs and the reason is because

moving away from just having passive liquidity and some constant function that defines the price um which basically leads to a situation that um the you are subject to the outside world um determining what the real prices are and then you're just correcting prices on chain which just means for liquidity providers you're getting a lot of toxic flow and so on and so forth. um you now flip this around where you can have active provision of liquidity but on chain and initially this launched on Salana and so because of this continuous sort of steaming block time and there was always this um misnomer that it was impossible to do this on Ethereum because Ethereum

is slower and more expensive and so from our perspective we were like okay this is the next evolution of this sort of DeFi innovation and how can we bring this innovation into Ethereum given the constraints of maybe higher gas costs and slower block times. And so looking at the fundamentals, taking a step back, we we tinkered and um actually questioned some of these assumptions and we as we are going through all of them, we actually realized there are ways to tackle them and once that path was charted charted um we executed on it and not just ourselves but others in the ecosystem also started pushing forward with it. So TLDDR essentially bringing tighter spreads to Ethereum as well

putting Ethereum in a in a in a place where price discovery can also happen on chain and most importantly now increasing the velocity of assets on Ethereum. And given that Ethereum has way more assets than any other ecosystem, as this starts to take off, this should actually make Ethereum much much more competitive again. And you have this nice flywheel effect of more activity. And then Fetty from your side just kind of building on that maybe helping us understand how how we can actually reach onchain price discovery on Ethereum given its you know significantly lower TPS and significantly higher transaction costs kind of Koopy just

explained the broad concept there how exactly does that work from a uh RFQ model or from a a a pricing model uh without incurring you know ex ext extortant gas fees and just kind of being being able to uh build something highly competitive uh on Ethereum itself. >> Before explaining it, it's pretty simple. Uh but before explaining it, I want to say that uh as Kubby said from Lambda, we're working on many areas of Ethereum from ZKVMs to um uh execution clients to L2us to stable coins. uh and we're trying to make a team win in every area. But I realized the last six months

or last year that the biggest advantage Solana had was the quoting on pricing of assets because if you cannot quote price like prices fast enough uh traders are going to always use either Solana or uh Binance because the price there is uh updated faster and then there's an arbitrage with Ethereum on people can arbitrage it and make money and that makes that most of like big part of the volume on chain is actually arbitragees or relevant percentage is arbitraries against um centralized exchanges. So what the objective we had on we were working on something similar and then we discussed it with Kubi and we realized we should work together on the same problem is that uh if we could find a way to quote prices faster on rather

than because right now what happens with AMMs is that the price is set by a function mathematical function on that's not how pricing works right like you cannot pred like that's almost anti- capitalistic you cannot know beforehand what's the price of something people set the price. So what we realized is that if we could make get market makers on people to set the price directly on chain things would move the other way around like the execution of the trades will happen on Ethereum on then the arbitrage will happen against the exchange on this start happening that's the first thing I want to say like this is already live um gataka has been working on the builder we have been working on the tools on integrating with multiple people like we are not building

the propm uh we're building the tools tools for people to build props on compete between each other. So how does it work? people uh like uh market makers quote prices on their streaming uh please correct me but I think it's five milliseconds um that are streaming constantly the prices of the assets on the um aggregators can like uh in the future 1 in uh right now Kyers swap they quote they get the prices from the builder that gets the prices uh constantly from the market makers on if the price is good the front end chooses is uh the the correct uh propm to to do the deal uh to do the swap on this is

already happening. Uh more than $200 million have been uh swapped over the system in the last like three weeks, four weeks. We're just starting uh we're working with the biggest market makers in the industry. Uh there's people working on front ends for all these uh and we're working on integrating with all the um aggregators. So what we built is an infrastructure that I believe will make uh ETH on Ethereum win because as soon as the pricing gets better like we like a few days ago we already saw it like the ETH if on stable comping was better in centralized exchanges when that keeps happening more people are going to use it not because they know about probms just because it price it

better so the distribution is the pricing so that brings more volume to Ethereum on it removes fees from competitors so It's it's good for the asset and good for the network. >> And and Kubby, could you just explain why the pricing would be better than Uniswap or Aer Drrome or whatever it is? Why is it why is it so much significantly better? >> Yeah. So the difficulty is getting this real-time information that market makers have based on you know global knowledge of you know maybe some big block trade happening binance mid and so on and so forth all the different venues and reflecting from their perspective what's the fair value of this asset and that changes in real time and with what we've

built basically we've enabled to feed that information into the block construction process such that towards the end when the blocks gets chosen by the network, the most relevant price is uh reflected at the top of the block which now means everything that interacts with Ethereum after this price oracle update has been fed into the block now has the freshest price available and can then trade on it. So, so and the the key is basically being able to have um the minimize the the latency between um transaction executing against that price versus the the knowledge or

the real-time information that these market makers have. And that essentially and from there everything else unfolds because that means now they can quote tighter and quoting tighter then allows routers and aggregators to look on chain because and that's actually the other innovation. It's a smart contract on chain. So anyone can just trade against that liquidity and now have that DeFi Lego money um network effect. And so it's just a matter of um making that liquidity now available to everyone on chain and you naturally have that in a permissionless blockchain ecosystem. So having this low latency gateway to the to the blockchain itself and being able to reflect that allows them to quote so

tight. And then we've also enabled another few um a few features that allows market makers for example not to include these oracle updates on chain if no one is going to trade against them. So now it's more economical for them. or market makers can also specify something like hey if the trade size is not large enough let's say gas prices are very high someone is just making a $1 swap so executing against that actually is going to be too costly they can say for example only execute if you know at least I can cover my gas costs so these are all like the little innovations which make it then technically practical to do this and then from from that core everything else sort of emerges

>> okay So, so the thesis is um we create a smart contract liquidity layer that allows for the best onchain price discovery possible on Ethereum and all of the participants in Ethereum will just naturally be using this uh liquidity layer because everyone wants the best pricing, market makers, users, etc. And so the is then the a and I understand why it's different from unis swap and other kind of amm pool models is this completely separate smart contract uh with uh effectively you're baking in block building with market making all in one kind of block if you

will uh you know to put it simply and that's something that doesn't exist because market makers in you know unis swap or wherever are not the same participants or they don't have the same level of information as block builders do those are two separate entities. Instead, we're just putting this in into one. Um, so is the problem then just like bootstrapping liquidity for the smart contract? What's the what's the obstacle here to make this thing scale to being the dominant liquidity layer for all trading on unis swap? C can I add something uh related to the question you asked before on everything you explained is completely correct actually what you said about market makers directly working with the block builder on updating the prices on doing things

directly is literally the reason why this works so your understanding is correct but what I want to add is that at the end of the day the problem is that we tried many years ago like almost 10 years ago to build order books on top of Ethereum but Ethereum is slow and so that's why MM were created fruits. It's a place where you leave liquidity passively in two places and there's a formula that calculates how to go from one place to the other. The problem of that is that that's first of all it's not capitalistic pricing is subjective. It depends on people saying I want this or that. Two, you don't have all the information because there's assets that are offchain. So that's the reason if I had to be concrete of why this has

better pricing is because there's professional LPS or market makers that have their own models. They're experts at like uh like it happens in the New York Stock Exchange or uh in in in Chicago. There's people that their work is to price things. So what we're enabling is these people to do that on chain. Why they cannot do this on unis swap? Well, they can, but the issue is that since it takes 12 seconds, their prices are updated every 12 seconds. And if that happens, there's always an arbitrage against Binance because they they these same people price something on Ethereum at one price, then it gets reflected 12 seconds afterwards on in Binance. It happens on a few uh milliseconds or hundreds of millconds.

So then there's always an arbitrage and that makes Ethereum a place where LPS that provide liquidity lose money on the person that knows how to quote prices cannot do it fast enough. So what Kubby said to summary sum it up is like they stream their price but the blog builder only chooses to correctly include information if their trade makes sense on there's um it's going to happen but they keep like the market maker can stream information non-stop to us on uh we only reflect that on chain when the thing makes sense. So now to answer your question, yes, from my point of view, it's a it's a question of time. Uh we need more market makers with liquidity.

Uh doing this on this is going to eat also the part of the money some people make by arbitrageing, right? Because right now there's people arbitraring making money. So this also kills another part of the of the of the money made by some market makers. So there's a we're in a situation where there's going to be a flip where there's going to be people putting more money on this and at some point this is going to make the arbitrage against sex is less sexy because you don't make enough fees on at one point this is going to become pretty big uh especially on the biggest pairs because this is going to happen with stable coins with ETH on on the biggest pairs the smaller pairs from my point of view and Kobe correct me or you can give

your point of view I think the smaller pairs that are not so traded oftenly will still go through unis swap or or dexis um and that are not propms but most of the things I think in the near future it will take six months a year a year and a half will will be traded through this yeah interesting um I don't know if you guys have seen uh the predictive allocation thing from a drone where they basically put out like a prediction market based like almost like an auction mechanism where you can basically choose where to put your liquidity on some some sort of cadence And then if you're correct in that that pool gets the most amount of volume in a given time period, you get like basically like a prize and if you're wrong, you don't make any

money or any extra fees. Um, how do you guys think about this like and then obviously unis swap for uh v4 has this kind of hooks and RFQ model and so there's like three different models here that are like coming about. How do you how do you think about um how do you think about where like okay so obviously you had a thesis for where onchain trading is going on Ethereum wanting to to kind of rival that of faster chains namely Salana in this example. What I guess like what I'm trying to get at is like do you feel that that this prop AMM model based on this kind of like universal liquidity layer for where there is this kind of convergence

between what was previously two separate parties. Do you feel that that is just like the superior way entirely compared to kind of currently what exists or what is coming? I is that like the thesis? >> Yeah, I mean I I would say the aim is not really just to compete with Salana. the the aim is to compete with centralized venues. And I think the cool thing about prop amms is that it's a smart contract that can basically where the market maker can encode any kind of logic, right? Because it's a touring complete language. So you can just express however you want to provide liquidity. So it's much more advanced than like an order book for example. And

now that you have the the chain itself, which is an aggregation of all activity, you you have something that's actually more sophisticated than an order book because with an or order book, all you can express is a specific order size and some depth or right at a specific price level. And so I think this is over time going to be actually more competitive than centralized exchanges. And that's when things get really really interesting. So I think that's the first point. And then the other thing I wanted to mention was um there's also this um I think one cool thing about passive liquidity is now you know anyone who wants to get additional yield can just

seed some AMM liquidity which obviously is not possible anymore if you need a um sophisticated market maker to actually price it right but as we have seen with like the vault ecosystem right what we are starting to see is that market makers are going to start basically opening up these vaults that you know you can get yield from. So that um and the market maker can then use that liquidity to basically provide liquidity through specific prop amms and then users can for example look at specific prop amms and see how they compare over time um to potential other competitors and then actually allocate to vaults

that are then going to be used to provide um active liquidity. So it's not just the fact that um now only sophisticated market makers will have access to the potential yield that you generate by providing liquidity which in the past with AMMs was available to like your everyday person in DeFi but through vaults and the combination of prop amms that that deal is actually also um extendable to you know your everyday defi user which is quite cool. H interesting. So, so I mean, you know, just to make a analogy, I I'm I'm super bullish on Hyperlid, been super excited

about just like onchain price discovery, per etc. Uh the CME is not going to go down easy. The CBOE is not going to go down easy. The NASDAQ is not going to let this little prop shop of crypto people come in and eat their lunch on shame. And so why why are the market makers like how do you expect the market makers who are making a killing on sex decks arbitrage right now react to this kind of revolutionary attack for lack of a better term on the incumbent that that they are making their profit? How do they benefit from the system as well? I I I would reframe the thing you said about an attack more as like innovation on people creating

new technology that is useful for everyone. So I think the question you're asking at the end of the day is how capitalism works in the following sense. >> Yeah. In some way it is eating the part of the of the cake of people that already had a solution that worked. But since this works so well uh I include that in like in working well in Ethereum hyper liquid works better in some ways than uh trafi that the first like there's incentives for market makers individual people to make money. So they want to make money by quoting prices, building things on that starts growing on then the people that are left behind the other market makers

that are not part of these or the the players are not part of these lose. So there's individual grid makes uh something better for everyone. So what I'm trying to say is like what I I see this as the normal dynamics of any new technology appearing that has some incentives uh to win on the reason is like it's cheaper to operate. There's no trust at the end of the day. Why this is so cheap to operate? Because there's no human trust, coordination. It's just mathematics re-execution engineering on money. That's only it's the only thing you have. And then specialization.

If you check everything we have been talking what Kub said about the LPS on somebody being able to provide liquidity via evolve to um market maker, that's when the mark like that didn't exist a few years ago in crypto. When things evolve, there's a specialization. everyone can do what they're they're best at on what's happening from my point of view it's like this is a better technology that actually if you check it's exporting wall street to the world if you're in Argentina like me I remember when I was 20 years old and I wanted to buy a share it was impossible I remember reading Warren Buffett on reading the graham I think the uh like traditional value investor I was like 18 years old and I was asking my father did you buy a share he said like yeah 20 years ago in the US exactly that

intelligent investor I was a kid and I was reading these things and I wanted to get a bank account to to create uh um to buy these shares. It was not possible. Like I really wanted to do that and save money and on and right now if you're a guy in the middle of nowhere with $5,000 and you want to buy shares or you want to get exposure to the capital markets of the US that are the best capital markets in the world, you can only do it through these systems. So actually I don't see this as attacking um CME or or or or infrastructure that was built in New York or Chicago. I see it as a way of exporting it to the world. Yeah, I actually think um you made a great point there when you you talked about stocks because especially now with RWAs and a

lot more tokenized stocks coming on chain with the combination of prop AMMs now the like the entire ecosystem can actually be super competitive and again because of the permissionless decentralized nature of the the blockchain now you actually give access to a lot more counterparties that initially might have not had access to actually trade these So yeah, super bullish and just bullish even just based on crypto assets itself, but then with more tokenized assets coming on chain, I think this really going to take off.

>> Yeah, I mean I I was going to ask about that, right? because I feel like just kind of to wrap up here like I think um something that we've been pushing on on the show quite a bit over the last several months really is that we we've been kind of pigeonholding our thinking to thinking that the DeFi products that we've built are for 150 $160 billion of TVL currently that exists in DeFi plus another two to3 trillion that exist in the current total crypto market cap. I was at the tokenized this conference here just a couple hours ago and the you know the amount of tokenized asset interest coming on chain is is unreal right and so thinking about the trillions of dollars of anything from stable coins to tokenized deposits to equities to whatever it is in between in

terms of that risk curve there a lot of what we're trying to do here is kind of like rebuild the plumbing for that system in addition to like this kind of parallel system and so it it's good to I mean as If we have the best price discovery for an asset then that tool or that program or that company will just be used right that's distribution as you said Fede and I think it's good to know that you guys are thinking about this not just for Ethereum the the asset or for the set of crypto tokens on the these exchanges but you know for the holistic suite of financial tradable assets broadly. Yeah, absolutely.

>> Gentlemen, uh, last thing. Can we use this today? Is it like is there a front end? Is there a website? Is this just for like whales only? I mean, got I got a couple shekels left, but you can go to pmm. What the That's the dashboard. It's not the front end. Um, there's discussions about building front ends to all these. Right now when you do threads already through kyers swap uh it's going through our system. So you might be already using um propms without even knowing it. U in the meantime you can see all the volume there. The I wanted to add a small thing about what you said stable guns are exporting the uh dollar

to the world. This technology on what we're building enables exporting Wall Street to the world. And as you can already imagine on based on what you said uh Andy you're smart quoting prices of ETH on other things is just the beginning. What's going to happen is that the full stack is going to get rebuilt on top of this on there's no better place to do it than Ethereum has the biggest TVL. If uh uh if the speed at which trades happen Ethereum goes faster you already know what's going to happen. It's going to eat the world. >> Love it. Fed Kubi guys thanks for spending some time with us today. Have a great rest of your day great weekend ahead. Viva, Argentina, Ghana, Germany today, USA. Got a big big slate of matches tonight here. So, it should be a

fun evening [applause] in New York. I'll tell you that. >> US is playing very well. It's incredible. >> Yes, I know. They're going to take it all. I think that's what that's what the rumor is. I don't know. I like Brazil right now. Brazil looks really good right now. >> You never can like Brazil. You believe even when you believe they're playing badly, they can screw you. Like, they have five World Cups. They're amazing. >> All righty, gentlemen. Cheers to you guys. Best of luck and uh stoked to see you guys roll out more front ends and get this thing bigger and bigger. >> Appreciate it.

>> Cheers, guys. >> Cheers. >> All right, guys. Um, we're doing all right. All right. We're doing all right. Um, don't stress out, everyone. Just relax. Do we know how much funding ETH Labs is even getting? Wallet address only had like 55 ETH. Yeah, I mean they reached out to us as well for a donation um to it. I I don't know if Robbie got around to it or what we did, but we took a call with them. It was pretty interesting for sure. Um so yeah, not exactly sure how much they raised, but that that propm is something that we keep hearing about and I think it's something that is worth paying more

and more attention to. We've got uh two more guests together and then we're gonna get into markets, charts, news. Michael Sailor, what's happening? Hype's holding up extremely well. There's a diamond in the rough right now. Lighter is holding up extremely well. Hype's holding up extremely well >> and Bitcoin is trying trying not to go back below 58. Trying like really hard. So guys, I mean, you know how I feel about this right now. Um, I think the stretch fear is overblown. I think we're close to the end there. Um, I think strategy is obviously in trouble. I'm not like

buying Micro Strategy at 86. It touched 85. I mean, look, the biggest micro strategy bear right now is Kio on Twitter, and he's got this thing going down to 36 is like the biggest bear. So, that's another 57 60% from here. Um, that would obviously be catastrophic for for Bitcoin, but I just think it's a bit overblown, guys. I think I think we're going to at least get some sort of some sort of relief for old boy Sailor. We're not going to bail him out. We're not going to bail him out. I'm telling you right now, we're not going to bail him out. But I don't think he's just going

down right now. I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think that's still a bit far-fetched. I think that there's a lot more again like if the bull thesis is stretch just getting back up to like 90 and like that being like the par right obviously it's not the par but like right now it's like we're under 80 so any like bounce in stretch is like bullish right any bounce and so I don't know when the risk is skewed such that there's this product that's supposed to be at a dollar and it's not at a dollar obviously we all have Terra Luna Um, Terra Luna PTSD.

>> But I don't think this is Terra Luna, guys. I don't think, look, I know sailors are in a degenerate. I get that, but I don't think this is this is this is Ter Luna vibes. Um, if anything, you can find Solos in some outperformance or there are some pockets of outperformance. We're going to do charts, we're going to do markets, we're going to do news. We're going to do that in a little bit. Up next, we've got an Andrea of story, which may not even be the right term anymore. I think it's data foundation, which is cool. We're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about we're gonna talk with Avi Patel of Kled and the work that they're doing together. Um, and stories rebrand to data foundation and data training and how Kled Kled is actually crushing on

data training. They're a they're they're a kind of like a digital assets native company and AI as well had quite the viral moment I believe several months back uh with some of the AI folks. So uh let's get into this next segment with Andrea and Avi. Talk about the rebrand, the collaboration and what's happening in the AI world. Let's go. Andrea, Avi, guys, welcome to the show. Great to have you both back. Um and quite a day for story now data foundation and obviously the work with Kled guys good to have you >> great to be here >> again. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful gent um man. Well, let's start with you Andrea. Let's not bury the lead. Why rebrand story to the data foundation now? What changed with the vision with the mission from kind of uh the age of intellectual property in the era of AI? What what what what changed? Why the re why the rebrand to focus on data as kind of this core layer of the AI stack? >> Yeah. Um so it's not really a pivot away from IP right uh ever since we launched story we've always considered data to be a form of IP um but we also had a little bit of a reckoning in the last year

which is uh not all not all forms of IP are best suited for permissionless licensing right if you think about the most valuables uh the most valuable IPs in the world right um they're the ones was least likely to want to open up the IP for anyone to use permissionlessly, which was exactly what the protocol that Story Build offered, right? You could register your IP and anyone could license it and um and basically run with it, right? But that that's not what the biggest IPs want. Whereas um something that we saw right away when we incubated Poseidon last year was just this massive this massive industry around data and

trading data and also how opaque it was and um and Abby can also talk about it later around like more from the product standpoint and you know he from from their end uh why this is important but just the need to have transparency and provenence and attribution around who contributed what data for what data set. Um, and so really it's more about sharpening our focus, right? It was like we were trying to spread ourselves too thin. We were trying to do everything. We were trying to boil the ocean with IP um across the across the board and and and data is more of a sharpened focus on no we are focusing on training data. It's a massive massive industry as it is and it

requires a lot of work but it's best suited to have um this this form of permissionless licensing uh because there's lots of different applications being one of them that collects real world data from voluntary contributors [clears throat] right and and uh they each get rewarded but then what happens to that data once it's handed off to the labs is is lesser known so having like an audit layer having a audit ledger is is is is very very important. So um that was the biggest the biggest motivation and the second one was also just the traction that we've been getting um on on that side as well. Right? So when we first launched Poseidon uh we got 5 million

contributions in a matter of a couple weeks and it made us realize just how big of a you know just how much demand there was and the and Poseidon immediately got traction with with some of the top labs. Kad same thing there. I think Kled has passed you know way past a billion contributions now. Uh so it it really really is like a a massive massive um opportunity. But at the moment it's been opaque and we want to make it transparent. >> Beautiful. Yeah. I mean Obby, you guys have had some incredible success with this data training product and with this marketplace that you've built. Um you know and Andrea here kind of lays out the the issue at hand that that data

foundation is now looking to kind of approach headon. maybe you could just catch us up a bit and talk us through some of the of the recent successes from the Kled side and then kind of how that parlays into the work that you're doing here. I think it's been maybe six months since we had you on the show. So, uh catch us up with you know the progress and what you guys have been primarily focused on uh and then kind of how that led into the collaboration here. >> Yeah, dude. It's been a while since we came on. Um yeah, I I don't even remember how many users we had when I did come on. was like like five grand or something total using the app. Um, so yeah, look, it's it's been a while.

Cloud's grown like immensely since. Obviously, we raised a very large seed round. Um, obviously fundraising isn't as big of a deal as I think the user base. We've grown the user base to [clears throat] over 400,000 active contributors. Um, it's hit number one in the app store in multiple countries at this point. Um, and we do process over 5 million uploads per day from users. I think back then it used to be like maybe I don't know, maybe maybe 10,000 tops per day back in the old days. Um and we've done over 1.5 billion contributions on the platform so far. So um we had all this data. We had us all all this data sitting around and all the labs for the most part know about us and respect us very well. Um and they've come to us asking for data almost across the board. But when you initially start

selling to labs, the biggest factor in actually getting a sale through is trust. Um consumer data is very hard, right? You need to make sure that your toos, your privacy policy, your consent and regulation is all like next to perfect. And not only next to perfect, it also has to look next to perfect. All this has to be public. You have to make sure that you're very transparent about how you're processing data. Um what people you're working with on legal like we we very heavily advertise. We work with letham legal um and also our compliance efforts with vanta and and all these other partners right um when you're making a name for yourself in the database that is required right and the piece that is missing is that every time I send a data set to a lab for example they will constantly ask questions about

like where the data set came from how do we verify that each of these users signed the TOS and privacy policy how do we verify each of these users KYCed if necessary for that specific data set that they've been paid for the data if necessary for that specific data set etc etc ton of these things that just don't happen naturally and it's kind of just on a trust me bro basis where you're sending this data information over to them and they're just like okay um like we kind of trust AI like this probably looks okay you're leaving it up to chance right we decided like look we want to be the best in the world we have to do things that are more transparent than than the next party that that's like simply how you win in this marketplace right so when the data foundation came to us um and suggested

this blockchain product Um, again, I'm by the way a very huge proponent against most these blockchain offerings. They're they're usually and useless. Um, to put it lightly. Um, but this like genuinely uh makes sense. If someone uploads data onto Kled effectively anytime that upload happens, that upload is automatically and anonymously sent to trace and then you can view that trace portal and see the full details of that upload at any point in time. So let's say a lab for example is asking for thousands and thousands of financial documents from our users, right? And a user's uploaded it and then I send that data to a lab. The lab can bulk export the hash ids which is just a a unique hash ID is basically an anonymous receipt of let's say a picture or video

without ever revealing what the picture or video is. Same for documents, right? You can look up the hash ID and then instantly see that the user signed everything properly, did it all properly. And this is all automated um from live data. So anytime a user uploads on our platform, it will end up on this trace portal. Um and that automation should go live in like two days. Right now we're uploading the backlog. So um yeah, this is gamechanging. It's pretty clear that like anytime a lab wants to trust data that's coming from us now, they can go on this trace portal and know for a fact that anytime a user is uploading, this data is automatically uploaded on automatically uploaded and updated on trace anytime there's an update to that data set. Um so the trust factor is just immensely higher compared to any of our

other competitors. It's like people just trust us more as a result. So, um yeah, trust and safety for several months now. I've been talking about it is like actually the most important thing when selling data and becoming a billion-dollar business. And I don't see any other product on the market that is as good at trace. It just doesn't exist. This is the first of its kind. So, um I'm pretty excited. Yeah. Yeah. A and so the product name being trace that there's also a concept in in in data training called trace data or like the like the tracing data or like some like there's like different iterations of the data that that a person uses in when they use a model. I is that intertwined at all or could you maybe just educate the audience a bit on what trace data is?

>> Andrea, you should take that but yeah. >> Yeah. So I can talk about why we chose the name trace and what it means on in the context of the data foundation. Um so trace is similar right it's to trace the life cycle of of of the data as it's contributed uh from the moment it gets contributed on clad or any other app to the moment it gets uh to like what happens to the user uh any changes that happen to the life cycle. So for example, if it gets used in a in a specific if if it gets licensed in a specific data set. Uh we also support uh showing KYC status for whoever contributed, tax status for whoever

contributed [clears throat] that data. Um everything is anonymous but it just you know traces what that data is on the on the actual uh definition that you're talking about. Um it's slightly different, right? That's more on like the the iterations, but from uh first principles, it's very similar, which is um anything that happens to that data from the moment it's collected to to to when it's used, it it is traced. Um the immutability of the blockchain works in our favor. It's one of the few things that makes sense to do on blockchain, right? Because anything that needs to get appended uh doesn't overwrite what's been written in the past. So you have this kind of audit ledger, right, from start to finish. So you could

potentially use it to also keep track of the traces. Uh but right now it's mainly focused on um keeping track of the moment it gets sourced and what happens to it along the way. Um because as you know Andy we also have Poseidon right which is um an app that we incubate a project that we incubated that is focusing on data processing. So uh raw data in itself usually is not ready for AI training. It needs to get cleaned. It needs to get um labeled. It needs to get annotated. It needs to get verified. And and so all of those steps are also tracked on trace as well, right? So there's there's actually a lot that goes

on behind data before it hits a model. Um and and we want to make sure that we have transparency across every single step. >> Got it. And then a from your perspective this boosts the Kled's business significantly because it it gives this unique transparent edge to the process of selling data which I assume is a massive expense line item for any lab right now and they this does not exist outside of what you guys are doing here with Kled and data. It's just this is like a very unique business advantage >> say. So that's like a fair characterization I think. Um look like

the current process is you look at a Vanta portal if any most of these data processors don't even have one of those. Um and then you're simply looking at the data set and then it's just on like oh is the is the lab trustworthy enough? have they gotten into scandals etc etc and they they'll just say yes right but that's a very rigid process honestly that takes forever and building the trust with the labs can take like two years three years for example right so with the trace portal a lab can just go on this view anything about the data set that's being sent over and then immediately trust it um to every extent because we just show the full details of any single data set on a public audit portal right um so yeah it's a it's a huge advantage to CLD um we're going to

be locking in much larger contracts now as a result of this hopefully very very soon. Um and uh yeah um those contracts are going to directly translate into you know revenue for the business and I think it's going to be a function of trace being just such a good product that doesn't exist in the market. Um it's un it's a unique offering that a lab can just be like um yeah a lab can just trust better than anything else. Yeah. >> And and are these contracts are these like uh are these like one-time sets of data? Are they like monthly basises? Is it based on the amount of users that uh you know willingly give their data to CL? What do these business arrangements with labs typically look like?

>> The business arrangements are as follows. Like typically um uh typically it's it's a like one time when you're starting off and then they put you in a retainer per month and they can just buy data infinitely um for whatever data set that they like. Um, obviously this is a new space, so we're kind of inventing the like actual business model, but um, let's just say there's there's there's almost no need for a business model with just how much cash is being spent on data alone. Um, you quite literally have billions of dollars thrown at you if you're a data company. Um, and you have like any sort of rapport in the space. So, um, yeah, it's kind of just like you build an order book with every single one of the labs. The labs come to you with every a specific data request on a

whim and it's usually like three times a week. Um, and then you fulfill that as fast as possible. You get paid. Um, and that's like the typical way to do it. And then once you build a long enough relationship, they give you like a multi-year contract for a ton of money for a specific data set. And they do that multiple times over. And then sometimes they also buy non-exclusively. So you can just sell that same data set that you've sold to one lab, tell another lab that this was just purchased by a big lab for this price, and then you sell it for the same price, if not higher, than the next lab. Do it over and over again. Rinse, repeat. Dude, what the is going on over there?

>> Yeah. >> My god. And and what kind of data are you guys seeing as being the most um like like obviously there's sensitive data, right? And there's kind of like nonsensitive data and you know, I think listeners can put their head together as to what that is. Which types of data guys are you seeing as this transparent kind of like post transfer process being the most useful for? >> Yeah. Um all data is useful for this obviously. Um I think across image, video, text, a lot of ours are images right now because of just a function of our app. But um as for like what we're collecting um which I think is a like a better question. Um yeah, we're collecting everything from

egocentric to financial documents to um to head medical and health records to general image modality stuff, general video, um even high quality IP from like big film companies, cine cinematography companies, etc., etc. It's a vast range of everything, right? Like our job is just like take take in a data set request from a lab, put in that request directly into the app and collect it almost immediately, right? So, um the faster we can do that, the better it is. That's what we're really good at. Um, and uh, you know, it can span from anything that a user can upload theoretically on an iPhone. So, you can imagine that's a lot of things. Yeah.

And then Andrea, you're able to store like the receipt of this data sale or however you kind of want to classify it onchain and create kind of like a record book of the data kind of how AI was describing it with with like the hashes and you can basically >> prove verifiably over time that you were able to, you know, have this data sales. Here's where it went. Here's what happened. That's kind of like the bigger idea here. >> Exactly. Exactly. And just to give you like a more practical um life cycle or user flow, right? So anytime a user contributes data, it gets registered, right? The digital receipt, the confidential data receipt gets

registered. Um but the actual user of trace is going to be the lab, right? So when Kled gives a lab a data set, they're going to give them a big Excel file and on that Excel file there's going to be a list of hashes and so they can go on trace and independently verify with these list of hashes, right? Um what does the aggregate look like and it gives you the aggregate of what terms of service were signed because there's different versions, what privacy policies were signed, um how many where do where do the users come from? um how many of them are KYCed, right? Just basically giving like an an at a glance a snapshot as well as being able to like drill down at the per per asset level if

they want to to like spot check. Um and so they have the data on their end and the hashes don't lie, right? So they can just upload like they can check the hashes and and it kind of acts as like a third party, like a neutral third party that just keeps track of everything. Um, yeah. So, that's how a trace works. And then over time, we're obviously planning on adding more more more features, but we're we're starting with the simple most important stuff. >> And then as you know, as we get demand for it, we're going to add more layers instead of just overbuilding right away.

>> Yeah. And ase contracts, I mean, you know, I I don't know if you can answer this, but are these things like eight to nine figure contracts on an annual basis? Seven to eight figures like And how many labs are we talking about? Are we just talking about the frontier ones? Are there a variety of purchasers? Give us a sense of like purchaser demographics broadly and contract kind of like uh size broadly if you can. >> Yeah, look contract size is uh almost always either in the seven seven figures um and sometimes up to the 10 on average. Um the bigger labs uh are you know big customers obviously but the Neols are also purchasing data in bulk

because that's the first step when they're building these companies. So vast majority of their cedar or series A which are typically in the hundreds of millions of dollars are going towards purchasing data. Um that's how they build their like foundation models from scratch basically. Um so yeah the customer base is very large. Um and it spans way beyond AI training data. You can think of any data sale that has happened prior to this, prior to the AI boom, um was still a trillion dollar market and those those can go towards advertising, CPG brands, hedge funds, uh government organizations, etc., etc. Ton of opportunities for selling them. Uh but uh yeah, the size is large. Uh hopefully in the next coming days, you should see how large they actually get on average. Um but uh yeah, we have

signed some pretty large contracts. So um yeah, >> solid, man. And um wait, yeah, >> I was I was just going to say uh we're we're also in like the the mainframe era of AI, right? Like there's these big big companies that have all of the capital coming in and they're making these massive foundation models, but we're also seeing a trend where a lot of companies, not just Neolabs, but like a lot of companies are starting to fine-tune their own models. So, and those models are going to be trained on very fine-tuned data, right? On very specific data. And that's not even just talking about the new industries that are emerging like robotics. So it's a market that of course has a massive demand from the existing frontier labs, the existing Neolabs, but it's kind of

like it's going to trickle down to the everyday company. Like every company is going to become an AI company and when they do, they're going to need custom data for their custom needs. And apps like CLED are going to be critical in sourcing the exact data that they need versus, you know, getting generic scrapable data that everyone already has. >> Andy, I think I said this on the last podcast with you, but I I had the thesis that, you know, there's just going to be this super intelligence that's created and then every single human on the planet is just simply a data contributor and paid for contributing that data. And you know, average job, like your I don't know, there's obviously still going to be creative jobs, but your average like a factory worker, for example, is not going to be making money through factory

working. He's going to be making money by taking a video of him doing the factory working and then uploading it to a platform like Cled and then selling that data, right? But you see this beyond just the people. This is happening enterprises, too. Pokemon Go just did it. They just sold their 30 billion uh mapping data set to um whoever it is. Niantic is getting into that. uh ton of these healthcare companies are getting into it. There's just a a vast range of these like very large companies that are turning into data companies that had literally nothing to do with data prior to this big AI boom. And you're going to see it more often, right? And every single one of these companies to make sure, by the way, I don't know if Nant can sell that data right now. I actually don't think they can. They're having trouble doing

so. Not because they have no idea what they're doing, which I think is also the case, but mainly because uh yeah, they have they have not built the the actual foundation for trust. They have not built any of the records for the users. They have not get the proper consent from the user base. Um, ton of stuff, right? So, these important factors are going to highly contribute to trace being able to generate, you know, billions and billions of records, not only from people like us, but also these other companies like Niantic and other companies in the healthcare space and people that have never gotten to data before. They'll all need it to to start selling data properly. Yeah.

>> So, can we get paid right now to upload data to Kled? Is that how it works or is just voluntarily non-paid? >> No, no, no, no. Oh, hell no. We pay you every single time. Yeah. Otherwise, we would not exist. >> You download an app, upload, and get paid in two days. Yeah. >> That's crazy. Um, okay. You know, cuz uh I just go to crypto here and I'm like thinking about like um like Block Works and they just turned their entire thing into like this data business. They have all this onchain data. Um, I mean all like these these these labs got to be will be paying for users data of different crypto products as well or different I don't know. I'm just trying to anyway >> they'll be paying for everything. Look,

labs are constantly searching for data. Their data teams make up probably 3x their research team sometimes and definitely like up to 10x their synthetic data teams. So natural data is the common course for purchasing um almost across the board. Uh yeah, they'll be buying it from everywhere and anywhere. >> So like how much do people make on CL? >> Top contributors are making up to like our top contributors making like 7,400 I think close to 8K a month now. Um but uh >> and what are they contributing? >> Uh that is a truck driver. So he's uploading 24-hour truck driving footage and then along the way while he's driving he is taking pictures of potholes, construction zoning areas, and a bunch of other tasks that we've tailored to him. So like that's like

your highest version of a data. >> Wow. Um, but uh other like you're we're still in like the gig work category like we're still categorizing gig work. You can't make a full-time income on average as a user on Cled. I think our next update will next update will greatly change that. But right now like average is like 40 to 120 to 40 per month for most of our users, but that's a lot for like some of the Indonesian and Malaysian countries that we >> Yeah. Yeah. Like like we're super super active in. Yeah. >> Amazing gentlemen. Thank you for your time. Um, congrats on the rebrand, Andrea, and on this new focus. It's very clear that there's a large market here, and it's only going to keep growing. And there's, um, I mean, there's supposed to be like a trillion dollars or more of

funding into AI the next five, seven years or something like that, maybe even like 10 trillion. Um, so this market's ever growing and Obby, congrats on the success. And as I said, I mean, six months ago, you were on the show and I mean, you was just kind of getting this thing off the ground. You're kind of, for lack of better term, stuck with the Believe guys. I'm glad that you've broken the out of there, dude. So, >> that was rough. That was a good time. Um, >> yeah. >> Trying not to remember the the Ben Past days dude. >> Human being. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Thanks, guys. Have a great day. Congrats again.

>> Guys. >> All right, guys. [cheering] >> Yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo yo. cell. Are we just going to become data sellouts? Is that the future of the world? Oh my goodness gracious. Truck driver making eight grand a month taking a 24-hour video of his truck driving, taking photos of potholes. Wonder what the New York version of that is. And just like walking around with a GoPro on your head non-stop and just like analyzing everything just like non-stop just like just like never in your apartment just like always on video. So is there a token or a coin for

Cled AI? Is it possible to invest in Cled? Yeah, there is. That's why I was saying at the end there like um the Ben Pastnack days because dude it's up 35% today on this news. I should have known. >> W's in the >> dude. I h I knew this news was coming. I mean, the token's at $13 million valuation. I mean, it's the trading volume in 24 hours is like less than I mean, yeah, it's less than a million dollars. So, it's still very very small.

Marvin says he aped Kled. that a boy. Dude, I was bullish on that. That was wild. I just um I'm trying to get the chart up. I'm gonna pull it up for you guys. We can go into charts, markets, etc. Yeah, it's at 13 million. The the link you hear followed here is broken. Is is CLUD even still a thing? Let's go to deck screener. Man, I haven't pulled up deck screener in a while, guys. [music] This is this is giving big time big

time. Like I don't even know 20 24 vibes right now. Um so here's the Kled chart. So, I forgot how to use this damn website, but I mean I mean there's not a there's not a lot going on here. Um, last there's only been I mean there's really not that much going on here.

I wonder how they're Yeah, because he said he raised a seed round, but I I guarantee it wasn't like for the token. It must have been for CLD equity. >> All right, guys. Did it go up during the interview? I think it did, dude. I think it did. >> W's in the chat. >> No, it didn't. Topped up. Didn't move. It moved on the announcement from like 10:00 a.m. this morning. >> [snorts] >> Um, okay. Interesting. All righty. Well, let's look at our favorite charts of the week here. Um, what's our boy Sailor doing? My god.

Oh, man. This guy, >> this guy, this guy just can't get himself out of trouble. This guy just cannot get himself out of trouble, man. Sailor just can't find it. Can't find it. Um, if there's any solace, BTC made lower lows today, right? And hype didn't. Well, it did. Sorry. It did, but the recovery has been significantly stronger.

Guys, I don't think we're out of the woods by any means. Like, we're still in trouble for sure, but I've been saying that like I like I was saying yesterday, we're going to get a sweep. We gotta sweep. Like I don't know, man. I wouldn't be surprised if that was if that was it for a little while. I I keep saying that. Look out below. New type. Yeah. All right, dude. Yeah. All right. New type. There you go again. Running your mouth. Lighter. Lighter looks great.

Lighter looks great. Honestly, it looks really solid. like really constructive really constructive really constructive hype hype has some real work to do on the structure like I mean it's intact right but you would love to see this daily candle that wicked below the low of yesterday's close above close at like 65 today would be electrifying.

So, tomorrow PER gets added into the Russell the Russell 2000, the small cap index. Um, and it's been getting hit hard. So, if you look at it from a if you look at it from a um MNAV perspective, we've never seen it this low. So, we've just been getting smoked. So the I I I honestly think Sailor's shenanigans is is kind of crushing crushing Pearl a little bit. I think people are people are a little bit little bit upset about Sailor right now.

So kind of like salty about all that, but I think that's kind of an opportunity in its own sense. So I I'm not going to spend much time on the 4 hour. Bitcoin 595 again. Lighter looks good. Arrow was Arrow had such a nice bounce yesterday and now it just really put in a lower high. So, we'll see what happens there. Zcash again respecting that lower high. Um near respecting that lower high.

I mean, hype looks the best. Multicoin put out a crazy report today. Did you guys see that? Did you guys see this? Today we publish our full analysis and valuation of hyperlquid hype. Breaking news, Iran has just struck a Singaporean oil tanker ship. Yikes. Uh, that's not good. Uh, lighter or hype, how would you allocate percentage-wise for the bull run? Uh, I don't know. Um, I think Per is going to have a breakout year next 12 months. I think both are going to do very well. Also, I think it's still worth farming variational um by like trading on variational. I think it's still worth it. All right.

So, we've long believed in open finance. The thesis that every unit of value should be interoperable, programmable, and composable on on distributed ledgers. One of the clearest expressions of that idea is a protocol that lets anyone anywhere trade any asset. We believe Hyperlquid Hyperlquid is the clearest instantiation of that idea that we've seen to date. The everything exchange talk about trade XYZ hyper trajectory looks eerly similar to Binance since early years in 2017. Binance went from a new upstart to dominant sex. The market then as it is now underestimate how quickly liquidity compounds how powerful the flywheel between product selection and volume becomes and how much value BNB could capture. We published our BNB report at

$10 in 2019 when Binance was already widely adopted entrenched. BNB trades at $563 today. Hyperlquid is following a similar playbook but with structural advantages Binance didn't have. It's non-custodial. Execution is fully onchain and verifiable and revenue is used for daily token buybacks rather than acrewing to a separate equity layer. It's also expanding into commodities equities prediction markets and options and outsources user acquisition through builder codes to the community. I think that is a huge point that people don't really quite grasp yet, but is going to make a meaningful difference.

The alignment between the token and exchange is also worth highlighting. Hype is one of the cleanest token designs we've ever seen in crypto. All right, let's get to the juicy stuff. At $63, Hype trades at roughly 33x TTM earnings or approximately 30x earnings in including the now live Coinbase USDC agreement. Under our valuation frameworks and base case assumptions, we project $8 billion in annual earnings by 2028, implying a price of $319 at a 20x multiple. $319.

Can you guys hold for that? Do you have Do you have Do you have it in you to hold for that? Do you have it in you guys? Tell me you do. I don't know if I do. I'm struggling day by day here. But there's only one way out, guys, and that's up. There's only one way out. What law firm is filing a lawsuit against Sailor? I don't know, man. You guys are too caught up in Sailor right now. He's good. He's going to be fine. He's going to be all right. I don't think I don't think they're going to assume. Maybe for those ads. Maybe for those ads. I could see that. I could see that.

I could see that. I think Purr is I think Purr's done dumping. >> W's in the chat. >> I think Purr is done. I think Purr is done dumping. We'll see. I mean, Bitcoin is just chopping. It's just ugly. That was an interesting report from Multicoin. All right, guys. We're going to keep it rolling into some of the more more of the news topics, our daily equity segment, and more. Uh, I've got a couple other key things that I want to go through with you guys. I don't have much else on Sailor or Micro Strategy today.

I think it's a bit overblown. I think we got the sweet that we're looking for and I'm enjoing my I'm enjoying my yerba mate. I got a Rufus Doul concert tonight. The USA is playing Turkey and I'm going to check tell you guys what the odds are on that. Let's pull it up for you guys and then we're going to roll into uh going to roll into roll into the All right. So, USA is projected to win

55%. Turkey 25, Tai 23. Yeah. All right. Well, let's just go ahead and be a patriot here. Let's just go ahead and be a patriot. You guys will help me tomorrow and you guys will either clown me or vibe with me because we're going to be a patriot here and we're going to smash us. We got to 1000 p.m. tonight.

We got some of the rollup team in from South America. We'll see what we can do with them. It's going to be a vibe. All right, we're in on the US. We're in. It worked last time. I don't see why it won't work this time. They're playing really damn well. All right, we got one more news piece, then we got daily equity. We're going to wrap this up. Um, stay positive out there, guys. It's looking better. It's looking all right. New lows on Bitcoin.

>> [snorts] >> All right, so we're going to get into the next post, the next tweet. Before we do, let me tell you about our infrastructure for crushing part crushing swap partner Lei. Bridging routing across the onchain economy. Visit lead offi to learn more. And let's get into it. Offchain is crypto is evolving into a business-driven industry. You don't say. Return to fundamentals, baby. Companies are building products and revenue streams. M&A and acquisitions are becoming more common. Infrastructure providers are emerging as foundational layers solving real business problems and building infrastructure that enables the programmable economy. This is Arbitrum's kind of I wouldn't call it a pivot but I'd call it a redirection. So let's hear from AJ from Arbitum. I got USA to win the cup plus 2800. Wow, that's bullish.

Definitely got to try Gorilla Mind energy drink. What do you think about base going down for an hour? Yeah, bass is down for an hour is not great. Especially when you're running a single sequencer. Like I get it. You should, you know, it happens. But yeah, I I don't I don't think that the bass was ever down before this for any material amount of time. So not great. Sailor is the distraction from all the institutional adoption news happening day in and day out. I agree. As I said, guys, I was just at a conference here and there was a lot a lot of tokenization bullishness. is, you know, the industry is changing because you're at conferences

and you've got traditional finance guys with notepads and they're just ripping notes on the panels, just ripping notes. Nobody does that at crypto conferences anymore. It's bare market. Nobody even listens. These guys are sitting down for hours taking notes. It's pretty bullish. All right, let's hear from Arbitum from uh AJ about how he's thinking about the overall growth of arbitrum and onchain businesses. >> The broader point though is I think there's a ton of consolidation happening in the industry. So if you look I would say let's say general tech over the last 25 years is a lot of startup work that is being designed and built with the

thought of I can grow this to X and then I'll be bought by a Facebook or a Google or somebody for you know and and it'll kind of get rolled up into you know a tech conglomerate. Crypto for a while was like the antithesis of that and I think that's was probably directly related to the ability to launch tokens get liquidity etc. I think as the industry has matured and the business models have become more sophisticated, you're probably going to see a lot more of this Coinbase, Echo, Payword, Magna type of startup design happening in crypto. I think we're very much in an era of consolidation. Um, I think it's somewhat healthy. I also think it's, you know, partially maybe in contrast to some of the original, you know, ethos of the

industry, but it it it goes both ways. From my perspective, what we need as an industry to do is make sure that we're solving problems. And for me, that is how do we enable the programmable economy to bring and connect the best DeFi primitives with the most significant assets in a way that works for asset issuers for their users to come on chain. And that's like really where we're new especially single sequencer in Armstrong's basement with regards to base. Arbitum's dead to me until they acrew value to token holders and not just validators.

Yeah, I hear you, man. I hear you on that. Um, yeah, I mean, I don't think they're dead. I think that's unfair, but I think that they're just in a bucket here, right? And there is a it's a very big bucket of extremely well capitalized, extremely strong technology, has gone through a deep token bare market, is in it for the right reasons, but the market just doesn't care.

Like the market doesn't care. And that's the problem is like all these companies are doing amazing things, but the market doesn't care because why? Because Hyperlquid is making a million dollar, $2 million a day and buying back 99% of the tokens. Aerome is buying 99% of their tokens back with all their revenues. The market doesn't care. And maybe we get lower rates, we get better market environment, but it's it's nothing against any of these companies. These companies are all they're all strong techwise. They have really good backgrounds. They have tons

of funding. Their tokens have obviously gone down a lot, but still worth a significant amount. They've got huge treasuries. It's just just the market wants is is in such a show me the money environment right now that it is just it is hard to break free from that. And you know what's funny is I put out a tweet about this guys and I think this is really really important. It is actually far easier to invest in this industry right now than it ever has been because because the amount of investable assets is far lower than it's ever been by the new standards set by the market.

However, it is far harder to be an entrepreneur or a builder of a project, company, protocol, business because it has never been harder to successfully launch tokens, build businesses, and actually have the market care about what you want to do. combination of the AI trade sucking the life out of the market, the bare market, the higher interest rate environment, the stock market bull run, the uh burning of retail by insiders for the last years.

It is actually easier to be an investor and a speculator in this market if you are a fundamentals believer and far harder to be a builder and an entrepreneur because of how rigid and how just ruthless the market is right now to anything that is not making a ton of cash and driving that value back to token holders. And that's a weird paradigm to be in. It's a weird paradigm to be in. All right, guys. Guys, we're going to get into the daily equity. I'm in the same situation on Only Fans, okay?

Freedom guy. Um, we don't we we don't goon on on on this show, man. We uh we stay away from that. We stay away from that kind of vibe. All right. Uh, Daily Equity powered by our friends at Dinari. I'm sorting you guys out. Let's get into it. I believe we have a good one for today. >> [music] >> Everyone is piling into US stocks. Foreign holdings of US equities jumped $2 trillion in April to a record high of $23.2 trillion.

This figure has more than doubled since the 2022 bare market. By comparison, during the 202020 the 2020 pandemic, non- US investors held $7.5 trillion of US equities or 68% less. Foreign investors now own 30.5% of the $76 trillion US equity market. Furthermore, foreign investors allocation to US equities as a percentage of US financial assets is up to 63%. an all-time high and a 10 percentage points above the 2000.com bubble. Foreign investors are all in on US stocks. So, we're going to scroll down a little bit. You see the chart here of the foreign holdings of US in US equity securities. It's insane. Now,

obviously guys, these types of stats and things, they're a bit kind of like uh skewed because obviously the performance of equities have been so so strong for the last 10 years that the relative allocation for any foreign investors portfolio to their total portfolio of US equities, it's skewed strongly in the direction of the amount of percentage in equities has grown significantly while the rest of their portfolio probably hasn't as much real estate, bonds, uh, money markets, etc., crypto even, right? And so, you know, that's a bit of a skew on this graph, but I mean, this this surge is signaling that there's a

lot of demand for US equities still. Um, and it also gives gives you a bit of like overcrowded vibes because I personally think that there is and if we look at the emerging markets index uh em it had a massive breakout um several Yeah, I mean it broke out of that 20-year range at 56 and it's trading at 68 today. So, over the last two months, it had a big breakout.

And I'm of the contrary belief that I think there's probably more upside in the emerging markets than in the US equity market, but I could definitely be wrong. I could definitely be wrong on that. I'm definitely not a professional equity speculator, but global investors have never been more concentrated in US equities. for better or for worse supporting the valuations today while increasing the risk of sharper corrections should they may come and should people have boughten you know much higher than uh US investors and people that have 401ks and such that's the state of the market that's the state of the US equities markets that's our daily equity US stock ownership hits record highs amongst

foreign investors shout out to our friends at dinari for the show powering the daily equity back to the news back to the screen share let's go over the final iteration of charts and more. That's this is the emerging market index that I was talking about. So you guys can see there was this I mean there was like a 20-year breakout here. So you had this you had this kind of range here 2007 2021 and now 2026 you get this massive three-month breakout candle. quarterly candle that is breaking out here.

And so to be honest, when when when a market breaks out of a 20 year consolidation period to the upside and is going to close a quarterly candle in blue sky territory, it's hard for me to think that it's not going to go well. Robbo strategy via trade XYZ coming up. Uh sick. Um, barrier to entry is indeed high, which is great news for incumbents. Purpleface crying. No jokes in the nest. Got it. It's a family show. No, man. You do whatever you want, man. We're We're accepting. Um, via which platforms are foreigners getting access to your stocks, Finance, Hyperlid? would think in interactive brokers probably

potentially um potentially potentially hyperlquid in the future or other exchanges but for the most part I would say interactive brokers. So guys this is where we're at. I mean this quarterly candle on BTC is disgusting. I mean I mean look at this. Look at this. This is just all sellers. That wick is just Oh my god. And the monthly.

[cheering] Yeah. So, we got a lot of work to do, guys. I think what I think what's pretty likely is that this sets the trend and kind of guarantees the thing that all of the market was saying was not going to happen which is the four-year cycle. But what it also in my view is going to show is that we are going to get some sort of relief in the in the more short term. That's still my view. >> [snorts] >> still think we get a little bit of relief and from there we see where we land and then we see where that low is going to eventually be set later this year. So guys, don't freak out. It's It's fine.

It's fine. Wow. Wow. >> Wow. >> That's crazy. So a obviously got in got themselves in some deep trouble with the kelp incident and it turns out they're selling at a $385 million valuation. What is the valuation of the A token? Because wow.

Wow. The A token valuation is 1.3 billion. Wow. Sorry, guys. Let me pull it up. Wow, that's crazy. And Kraken's getting it for Kraken's getting it for 385 million >> W's in the >> My god, >> that is nuts. Wow.

That this better be at the token level. Yeah, that's what I mean, guys. We're in this [snorts] market where like Wow. Anom calling bottom. Wow. [cheering] >> Anom calling bottom. [screaming] >> Wow. I don't know if it's the bottom, but I do think that we're going to have some time. What is What is a ton laughing at? Nine figure person takes 15 seconds to respond a message and four figure person takes eight hours. Yo, that's funny, man. Venice is just on a generational run, guys. Like, wow. The amount of usage that they're having

consistently is crazy. A or a Labs? Yeah, that's the question. That's why A is going up. If we get a big pump in July, that means we're getting clarity. Yes, I agree. I think that is very probable scenario. Clarity happens. We get a nice move in July. Everyone thinks it's the bottom, but it's not. That would be that would be the most electrifying max pain scenario. Um a or a labs I don't know. Um we are still yet to get the full intel on the situation but we will get the intel. Morpho and A will crush. I agree on the tokenization craze. They will do well. How does company equity value versus FTV work

for A or lighter? I think they're completely separate disjointed things entirely. Um, and I think that's why that's why that's why they're that's why this whole like conversation of like what are they buying is an issue. I don't think a token is that correlated to the equity. Same with lighter. We raised 4.3 million led by Panta Capital Orthogonal. Orthogonal. Orthogonal, the unified API for AI agents, man.

Wow. Capital flows really said gamma squeeze while David sat on a $2 billion ATM. Damn. Damn. Does that mean like David Sheamus didn't didn't slam the ATM or does that mean that like he did slam the ATM and that's why we didn't get the gamma squeeze vibes. Totally true. It's beautiful out there today. Rufus of Soul's on. USA is playing tonight.

This is going to be funny. All right, hear me out. Remember when a month ago when S&P was down 10% and Trump was threatening a new car island on the bottom and we everyone victory lapped and everyone was convinced he was going to do it and flip giga bearish the bears victory lapping was and the last bull capitulated in hindsight that was definition of peak fear as sure was possible maybe sub 5% but the red show of Trump not doing it was severely underpriced CC the market going up in a straight line to new highs what if we're in a similar spot with Bitcoin Michael Sailor I agree Agree thread. I agree. The entire market is fully convinced Sailor has to blow up. I'm not sure full most fully understand what that means. I agree. I don't understand what that means. The sailor overhang has been

priced in by institutions for months. Evident in Bitcoin SPX and Bitcoin gold. It has been absolutely destroyed during a generational bull market. Completely agree. I refuse to accept. Everyone is just now realizing the sailor problem. Maybe a lot of us scripted Twitter are, but we don't control the flows. Totally agree. No idea how Sailor Sailor wiggles his way out of this jam. And I must admit, an emphatic deleveraging into strategy blowing up the final DAC cleansing seems like a fitting bottom. But when do we ever get a wellpredicted fitting bottom on schedule? All I'm saying is it feels pretty fearful right now. Best way to express this is micron calls. On that note, I have zero Bitcoin.

Oh my god. Oh my god. That's kind of how I feel though, man. I have my never sell Bitcoin mostly hyperlquid. But yeah, guys, I think it is max fear right now. I think it is max fear. Um, I think it could get worse. It could always get worse, but I think I I think we're at a point of max fear. I'm offet. >> So, in my eyes, I'm thinking about I'm thinking about a nice move to kind of soothe some souls for a little bit.

Maybe we just continue just going straight down. Maybe we do. I doubt it. I doubt it. But it's possible. Just [snorts] got to be ready for whatever, guys. when it comes to your portfolio, when it comes to managing your trades, when it comes to all of that, because I think, you know, I think we're gonna see we're going to see the we we we could see Sailor delever. And if that happens, you want to be on the right side of history, not the wrong side. But I think people are over overreacting to Sailor right now. And I think we're going to be all right. And that's what I'm going to leave you guys with. Deb's

in the chat today, guys. Great show. Thanks to all of you for being here. Freedom guy, Edward, NooC, uh, New Type, Beef HL, um, who else is in here today. Bunch of folks were in here today. Cle, uh, Marvin, Silva, Rocky, Toshi, all you guys. James, Mora, and everyone in between. Drop a subscribe, guys. Drop a like. Drop a like before you go on the stream. Show us some love on the stream. Drop a like on the stream. Turn notifications on. You know where I'll be here tomorrow. Financial capital of the world live from the tokenization tower.

[music] I want to go see Rufus do tomorrow tonight and watch the USA game. I might be a little hung over tomorrow, but I'll be here through the thick and the thin through the bull and the bear. As I said, we only have a at at worst, we have a couple more months of this bear left. Couple more months of this bear. Q3 is coming. Q4 will be here. Couple more months of this bear left, guys. Stay with it. Stay strong. You know where to find us. 12:30 p.m. Eastern time tomorrow here from the Financial Capital of the World. Let's give some love to the team behind the scenes, guys, in the chat. Give some love to the team behind the scenes.

They're putting in work. Niang Chan, great to see you. Thanks for coming out. Freedom guy, you're the man. W's in the chat. We're gonna stick through this, guys. We're going to stick through this. All right, much love in See you soon. [music] [music] >> [music] [music]