LIVE | SAYLOR TOP BLASTS + PURE PAIN | 0xResearch

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[music] [music] [music] Hey, welcome back to another live

stream. Zerx Research myself back on the show joined by Bakacio. How you doing today Boach? >> Good. What happened to you? You left me all alone last week. You didn't give me a heads up. I was just here trying [laughter] to chat to people trying to >> That's not true. I did give him a heads up. Uh I was out in nature for most of the week. Spent some time at at a friend's farm. Spent some time out at the lakes outside with the dogs. So >> did you sell before you?

>> Did I what? >> Did you sell? >> Sell what? >> Before you any exposure, crypto exposure? >> No. >> No, you just went and >> my only exposure is is is BTC right now. So >> Okay. So >> Okay. >> You don't really feel pain. >> I'm I'm okay. I'm I'm like sailor right now. Not that I'm top blasting every single wick, but in the sense that it's fine if it goes down. That boy asking, "Is it over?" I don't think it's over. >> Who's asking this >> in the comments asking if if it's over?

I don't know. I don't think it's over. [snorts] >> I don't know. I I've become I've I've realized it's so fun to be barehold like telling people [laughter] >> if you didn't make money, you're [ __ ] Get out. >> Yep. No. Saying stuff like you should be happy with what you made this cycle. Um >> Oh, yeah. or like expunge yourself of your expunge your mind of your peak net worth. And then there's one more. Uh oh, also like telling people they were wrong the whole time. Yeah, it's fun.

But I actually didn't sell enough. I um here, let me I'm gonna I I don't think I do charts on here that much, but >> yeah, I I'm I'm just I'm recalling a conversation that we had maybe a month ago where you said >> I sold some hype and then you said and then I bought it back [laughter] and then I didn't sell it again. So now I'm wondering like how you feeling about that decision- making process. >> Well, to be fair, I pretty sure it's just really tough for me to sell. I'm not a big seller. I'm a big like buy and hold and it'll go up. I know when to sell. Like it's also particularly difficult this cycle, I think, because the assets that I own are are like technically undervalued, right? Like on whatever multiple you put it on and you

compare it to things. Um, now some smartass is going to say, "Oh, that's all overvalued." Like, yeah, okay, that's fine. You can argue that. But I mean, these are like it's the first cycle where there's something that is like generating a billion dollars in revenue a year and shipping that into the token and you're like, "Well, I I actually don't really want to sell this." Um, but like I'm very comfortable selling meme coins and stuff. There you go. Thank you. >> Yeah. No, I I I agree with that view. I think because I think um I don't know that you get a lot of macro lararping just in general of like didn't you sell the exact top of the market and then buy back the bottom and it's like no and I

would I would agree like to the point you're making here you don't really need to um if if you're buying and holding things that that actually do well and grow and increase their uh price per token or price per share over time. you know, you don't really have to be so concerned about that. [snorts] >> So, I can understand that sentiment. I think just in the crypto side, it's just so historically been that uh those those down periods are pretty cataclysmic. But but we'll see. I mean, when when you actually generate a billion in revenue, like it's a bit different than when it's just a memecoin.

>> Yeah. I mean, like you don't struggle selling meme coins. Um, >> but >> some people do >> like even Bitcoin is tough to sell though like and it it technically has no like intrinsic value, but you're still like I don't want to get rid of my Bitcoin. Um, it's tough. I think this is like the first time. Well, last time I didn't sell enough 21 um and I held it down 24 March. Do you remember we had a massive well not a massive pullback, but we had a significant pullback. I I didn't I was like, "Fuck it." Like I don't >> Yeah, I hung out. I hung out through that as well.

>> Yeah, that to me felt not like a bear, but like a like a half bear almost. It was just like a few months. Um and then this time I was like, I don't know if I can do it again. So, I just sold. >> Yeah. But I think and I don't know if other people didn't have this view, but like to me I actually thought the more clear like sell the top opportunity was more of like January of this year like post election like kind of Trump top Trump coin top like I don't know you have US government is going to buy Bitcoin handover fist as part of like a new reserve like there were just so many >> so overexuberant to the bull side and

president launching a memecoin going to 90 billion FTV in like two days. I think there were a lot of reasons to just like you know call it there and maybe and and sell some stuff and um obviously like March April were fe March April were pretty bad. So like you got an opportunity to get back in if you wanted to but I have felt like that the remainder of this year at least for crypto has really just been like the DAT story honestly more than anything. It's like dads came in, they bought a bunch of coins and pushed them back up, but like it didn't really feel quite as similar as like you know the past two years have.

>> Yeah. And and now like all of the dads are I mean I saw first of all sailor shipped in at 1002.8k or something. [laughter] >> Great announcement. >> 840 mil and then Dan Smith sent this into the Xerx Research chat if you're not in there. Um, I actually don't know if the link is public yet, so I'll see if I can share it around, but um, he was talking about BMR, but like 200 mil. >> Yeah, he tweeted about it actually >> announcement and pull that up >> like smallest purchase since inception.

They hold 600 mil in cash not deployed. Um, I don't know what the that story is like. We I don't know if you remember this, but first of all, I feel like Felix, shout out to Xiao, he's always been like super not a not a big D guy. And I think that makes sense. I don't it's it's not an interesting story at all. It's just like, oh, this company holds a lot of dollars and then it buys into these tokens to back it and it's like generating yield through. So, it's not not a sexy story. Um, and now we saw master uh not master micro strategy mnav fall below one it's at 0.9 or something I

wrote about it in the newsletter this morning um and like as mnav goes lower it's tougher to this is what James Kristoff says I have no no edge in that but he says that as mnav goes lower it's harder to raise and then therefore it's harder to buy therefore mnav falls um I don't know it it doesn't like I don't really get the that's I ever like the initial that I got the that story in that Tom Lee shipped a bunch of money into ETH and then it went up 2x a month like that's the that story that I remember and that was a great story for Eve and then now it's like okay well um some of that are selling underlying tokens some are just

buying way way less the big bad that like the big boy that is under one m it's like it's a weird story >> I I mean, I think the story was always pretty clear, at least from our like I don't know the the pipe deals and just the fact that you could structure one of these things, announce that you're buying some big amount of coins and then the share price of this thing goes up 10x instantly off that news. And maybe if you're a PIP investor, you're you're locked in at some valuation way below that. And assuming you can just hold hold that price up for 90 days or 180 days or whatever um then you get like sort of a

free exit opportunity. I think I I think basically the story was just like that worked a couple of times or maybe you know the expectation was that it would work at least um early on with you know I think there was sort of a time constraint there um with maybe the lockups on some of those pipe deals and so the early investors to those were pretty excited about it and then you saw more you know large funds and other folks jump into more and more of those deals and like >> you know you get to a point where you've diluted it and then if if any of these like if the coins go down or if they run out of buy pressure there then of course those those aren't going to turn out as expected. I mean, and and the story was being sold like it's like it's like the

ETFs again, right? >> They were selling it as like opening up, you know, this is going to open up capital markets all over the world, man. Like they can't buy they can't buy the ETH ETFs in uh >> Sagal, man. But they can do a DAT and that's that's incredibly, >> you know, that's democracy at work, man. Democracy of capital markets. Yeah. I don't know. I think that I think that story was it was just a bit it was a bit stupid from from the get-go. >> Yeah. Um yeah, I honest I don't know. I never got the point of it. And then it's one of those things that sounds really good in practice but apparently doesn't work as well in practice. It's also my first time with this kind of a structure. So I'm actually not as

familiar as like I think other people are. So I can't comment really to the intricacies. But I think anytime something is being like pushed for this many tokens as like being a really really good catalyst, you kind of want to be worried about it. Especially since it has all of the buzzwords like you said. It's like it's opening up capital markets over the world. Like no, it's not like the ETFs are the ETFs are unironically like a good thing that happened to crypto and we might get some form of passive bid. Um, from what I understand currently, the majority of ETF holders are people like you and me who hold Bitcoin, um, and then just decide to put that in some more tax efficient, um, account or to hold it in in a place that's a little that feels a

little safer. Um, I don't know who was talking about like Felix, I think he holds he holds only IB. he doesn't hold any actual Bitcoin, [snorts] which it makes a lot of like >> if you're not super into this idea of like self-custody and whatnot and you're just like, well, I just want an inflation hedge, then just [ __ ] I bet I want to say constantly. But >> yeah, I think there's a couple advantages at this point. I mean, you mentioned the tax advantage status, like if you have certain accounts in the US, that's that's 401ks, that's that's IAS, different accounts like that with with u tax potential tax benefits. But I think the other thing is like I don't know you see wrench attacks happen in major metros and it's like if somebody can

knock you out and get your password or your seed phrase or you know your fingerprint on your phone wallet um it's obviously not too secure. So you can own it with a traditional asset manager and nobody's going to be able to knock you out and get your >> get your IBIT. I mean it would it would be it would be much more involved like hypothetically still still possible but uh there's a I think a bit of a difference there as well. the tax advantage status is is certainly probably one of the bigger points and just probably like e peace of mind of not having to manage a >> a phrase on a piece of paper or something >> and I think anytime yeah I agree with you and like anytime some form of structure like this pops up or like I I

don't think this is necessarily about that but I think you can say this about a lot of different things but like there are I mean in the real world there are also like derivative plays u not in the sense of like financial derivatives but like something pops up, people see that there's a lot of interest for it and then some people will say, well, okay, like there's a lot of interest for this, but how can I personally make money off of this or how can I get involved in this such that I can also get richer and richer? Um, and to me the that's kind of felt like that kind of a play. Um, I'm sure there are some DATs that were like focused on a specific thing like some for staking, some for yield generation, some to be like used in DeFi. Um, but I

would say like probably a decent chunk of them were designed to designed to help um insiders and people who are close to these projects. Um, >> yeah, I found the staking thing to the staking point like I I found that pretty weak as well. Like >> I don't know. I think it's it's pretty expected that we're going to have some of these staking ETFs and I think the first Salana staked ETF is already online. So like there was sort of an expectation that some of it like these products are coming to market anyway. So it seemed almost more of like a capture the ARB while you still can like a capture the reg for now. But um yeah that those I feel like those arguments

were kind of were going away to an extent. >> Yeah that's but the government is also kind of slow right. So like I mean they could say like yeah we're going to implement s 2026 and it could be 2028 and they never do it. Um, so that could be their argument, but I agree with you like we already clearly well like we have a very friendly administration who is exceptionally involved within crypto. Um, Hester Pierce is very um she seems to talk a lot about staking and a lot about how these tokens should be um utilized. So I I wouldn't I agree with you. It was kind of like a three four month period and they were like yeah let's um like three four months they won't have it we'll have it. Let's see how how we can get this implemented. Um,

you were talking about phone apps and I actually there's something cool that popped up today. I don't know if this is in the notes for today, but um, a launched their iPhone app. It is very good. Um, a launched their iPhone app um, their Apple store app um, iOS app. Jesus, I um, I saw this from Jack Street. Jack part of the Blockworks research data team. Um, my immediate thought with this is because you can use cards with it, right? And it's like, okay, well, Plasma One is kind of a like if this is a Neo Bank and Plasma One is like and Plasma's big DeFi app is a it's a bit tough,

right? Like to compete, especially since this is, I assume, going to be on any chain that A is on. So you could use base >> I would imagine >> or whatever. Um now this is just to say that like a neo bank product is a very difficult product to build um and it requires a lot of like jurisdictional uh contracts and plays and you want to be embedded into these different um countries and you need to figure out how people interact with the money etc. So like there's definitely a way for plasma to beat them out. I'm just like my first thought was this is probably not great.

Um but also you never know like you never know what's going to happen in the back end. So >> yeah I I I maybe a point on that is I think more and more projects are realizing that like community first and like promoting teams within your ecosystem and this that and the like you got to go out and make the revenues for yourself. Uh I think this is a good move by AB. I think the point that Jack makes here, like the balance protection is pretty interesting. Yeah. Providing up to a million in coverage per customer that I feel like has probably been the biggest missing link for broad adoption of a product like this because I don't know you you can you can use a a NEO bank, you know, a Robin Hood

or probably even a Coinbase or some others, plenty of online banks now where you earn basically the risk-free rate. And of course, you know, at least within the US, you're FDIC insured on your deposits up to a certain amount. Um, obviously we don't have that in DeFi and there's been been plenty of examples where, you know, farming yield on chain has resulted in total loss of deposits. So, this feels like a big step for them. Like, you could actually get meaningful additional capital from from folks. And if you can build like a compelling I don't know an interesting enough like kind of broad app experience like maybe you get you get some net new users flowing in um into the sort of onchain

economy v via this as like their stepping stone. Uh I think it makes a lot of sense. I I think what's interesting too is um we've been like kind of waiting to see this like adoption of mobile and it's starting to kind of slowly trickle in like wallets wallets have been the thing for the longest time. Um but with a going mobile and like even some trading apps are trending more in that direction. Um it's interesting to see to see >> yeah I agree with you on this there's um >> yeah I mean the cash products or like the credit card neo bank products became more and more popular this year. My only thing is it's kind of difficult if you're not American

because like I spend euros, right? And or like if I'm traveling to Turkey, I'm going to spend LRA or if I'm traveling to Japan, I'm going to spend yen and I think they I checked out pay pa y not I don't have a ref bank and I'm not sponsored. Well, we're not sponsored. Um uh and they charge 1% on FX which is really high. At least to me it feels really high but also it makes sense because there's no like there's also no yen stable coin or anything. So you can't even hold some of these products that like you may want to spend. So I feel like that's the thing that they really need to start fixing at some point or they need to lower the

lower the fee the FX rate. 1% seems quite high. Am I >> 1% on a conversion or what do you mean? >> Yeah, like it depends like I you know what's the spread on the trade in the first place? >> Yeah, we talked about this before as well. I just realized and it's like we're going to do the airport desk thing. >> Yeah. [snorts] Well, it the question is the spread plus the fee. So like I don't know if the spread is massive then uh it doesn't really matter what the fee is. But if it's if they're quoting you a good rate, then 1% could be fine cuz I mean the spread at like the airport might be like 25%.

>> Yeah. I don't know. I want no spread or I want very low. [laughter] Guess that's the argument. Like >> I don't know if you'll get zero. >> It feels funny. Feels a bit much. But I guess we're paying 12% on salon swaps just to like off tips at some point. So >> yeah. I mean, I think as long as it's um I think it's as long as it's cheaper than the other instant methods like going to a desk at the airport or like if withdrawing from an ATM like in the local currency if there's a if there's a fee for that. Um then it's fine.

>> I think it's three and a half% if you spend without it anyway. Yeah, maybe it's not that bad. I just it was just something I was thinking about, but I agree with you like these apps are getting bigger and bigger. Um, I don't really care about the trading apps on my phone. I feel like I like trading on a desktop. Um, well, I don't like trading at all, but if I was going to be trading more actively, I'd be trading on my desktop. But I do want to use some of my crypto, um, borrow on it and spend that, etc., etc. I think it's like I talked about this and people just said I was trying to evade taxes and I was like, no, it's not. I just don't want to pull out money into the bank. like the whole

I don't like it when banks lend out my money as well. Like I know that's how the entire economy works, but I don't want I don't like fractional reserve >> well >> banking and I want to hold my own. >> Technically, that's how it works in a too. It's just you you're lending it out. You know what I mean? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And the the risk is actually much much larger as well because Yeah, that's very cool. I guess what I want is not a spending money. Whatever.

You get the point. Um, no, it's cool. I like it. I'm excited for this. I don't know who will use it. Maybe I'll try and onboard my my girlfriend, my fiance, and see if like how much she enjoys it because if she likes it, then it's like that's probably the the non-crypto crowd getting it already. I guess the the interesting maybe the question I'd have is like how if it's differentiated from the existing desktop front end like does the 1 million in coverage come when you use the normal application now or only this a app specifically?

>> Yeah, that's another thing. And also who's eligible to me this feels like would be eligible if you're like above 10 mil, right? like and you're just lending it out for a like Justin Sun will definitely get eligibility. I don't know if I will. Um but it is a cool step. I was thinking about this last week actually. I was like, "Yeah, there's no like FDIC insurance and stuff in crypto and that's going to be a pain in the ass." But if I don't know how they insure it though, like one mil per person is pretty hefty. >> Yeah, I'd like to know.

>> We checked on this a little bit. Um, >> yeah. >> I don't know how they cover it. I don't know how it works because like with banks, banks don't have the money for it. They can't pay for it. It's the the central bank prints it and then they they make everybody whole again. But I don't know how the hell a would do it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Like imagine having to deal with bankruptcy with a stuff and then like you got to get your $1 million. Seems impossible. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they have like 30 billion in uh loans or borrow.

>> Yeah, but that's other people's money. [snorts] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Give me Danny's money. >> I don't know. We'll see. >> I just mean there's a lot of there's potentially a lot of assets to cover. >> Yeah. >> I was thinking this was going to be a V4. Um but apparently it's not. But that's also like one thing that I feel like people are very excited about. I don't know enough about it to chat about it but >> A might have a good year. They also have um they they have buybacks now. One of the few fully diluted tokens that has buybacks and one that I can see stay relevant forever, barring some massive like issue that may or may not happen. Um one that I can see like one of those tokens that I would want to bid

if we had like a prolonged bare market and I was like, "Yeah, it's an attractive one to buy." Yeah, they have um I I guess maybe the the growth question mark is something to consider like for the longer term. You know, they have they have competition on base in Morpho. Um but like of course on Ethereum they're they're still king. Um it just you know is the ETH heyday kind of you know I don't know. I think this is a question we've been asking for a long time, but you know, question the ETH's growth longer term. Where where is that ecosystem going?

>> I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of serious money just stayed on ETH forever like or like very slowly trickled out that >> I do think they have a lot of captive basically funds there that aren't going to move true. >> Yeah. Like >> it's kind of anothetical like to growth if if the business relies on just like stuff that doesn't move. they need to also like be continue expanding um >> in the future. So I'm just I'm thinking about some of those opportunities of like obviously they've seen a good amount of increase in in borrow lend like in the past few years but you know of course some of that is speculative.

Uh how much of it was due to like ETH itself as an ecosystem and then like the assets there um actually growing and driving new demand to a I'm not sure. And on some of these newer venues like like I said they're competing with with Morpho on bass which is probably like kind of the the other big consideration today at least in EVM land right for the future. >> Yeah. I mean bass morpho has two billion in TV or like 1.8 billion in TVL and a has 900 mil but a on ethereum is 20 bill. So it's like >> um yeah like where does the growth come from? I think Moro's thing is that they don't charge anything on anything. Um, it's just like a public good at this

point and I think eventually they're going to have to add a take rate. I don't know how it's going to work. Um, I don't know. I I don't know how I don't know how A will compete with BA with Morpho on base, but it's also like if if they're if Morpho's only competitive on base, that's also not a massive issue for like I think that >> AB has enough weight to pull around with chains and say >> you can I think this is what happened with I mean there's no morpho on plasma and there's also no I don't think there's going to be a on stable for example and I imagine like going forward a lot of this will happen where it's like one or the other because both can't do well on one chain. So, I imagine

they're going to just try and fight it out one by one and they don't seem to like each other very much as well despite both being French. Um, they don't like each other. So, we're gonna >> Maybe that's why. >> Maybe that is why. I'm sure there's like some provincial Parisian thing going on there. Uh um >> I think in my head what I'm indexing to is like if you were to ask me to pick out a chain that I thought is maybe comfortably like you know maybe 10xing over the next five five years or something like base feels like an easy pick just because of the just because of the connection to Coinbase whereas like

you know like if I look at if I look at Binance and B&B chain Like I think they've already kind of had that moment and it's already like pretty, you know, >> well integrated into some of the activities that they do on the exchange and they like rope in B&B chain and B&B the asset, >> but but Coinbase doesn't really do that today and they have the chance to do that and then like grow that ecosystem a lot. Um, and I don't think that sort of opportunity is so clear elsewhere. So, I'm just looking at that and thinking, okay, if it's a few billion today, like it could be 20 billion in in a few years and then that would be like meaningful relative to today.

>> I I I think that's a good point. One one thing I will say like I like Bass a lot and I like the Coinbase team and what they've been doing with Bass, but I mean Binance also had a very significant first movers advantage and then Coinbase did all of this. When did Binance When did BMBB chain launch? 2019, 2020, whatever. Let's say that. Um, I mean, it's been 5 years and then Bass launched, right? So, maybe the heyday for it was in 2021 and that's why Binance like maybe the heyday for all of these like L1's, L2s that are associated with um with centralized exchanges was in 21 and

that's why like Binance managed to grow so heavily. Um, so we'll see. Like I don't fundamentally disagree that it could do well. I'm just like I don't know. I guess like I wouldn't count out Ethereum that much because to me it makes sense for very significant capital um that just wants to be borrowed and lent out to stay on Ethereum for the time being given that it is very trustworthy as a chain. Um, but also because BAS is associated with Coinbase, there's this element of like regulation and it has to work and people have to be able to get out get their money out of the chain. um because it's like a US regulated company, a public

company. Um I like when I'm buying Bitcoin now to hold, if I'm not buying it on like Bitcoin Chain or on Hyperlquid and then transferring it over to Bitcoin Chain, I will hold it on base because to me it feels safe. It's like they're regulated. Um I really don't think that they can do any big shenanigans. So I'm very comfortable with holding stuff there. So maybe that's also a benefit for them. I don't know if >> makes sense. I I feel like we're seeing pretty meaningful adoption. I don't know. You use some a lot of newer apps, trading apps, PEX, etc. And like a lot of these newer ones, it's you know, deposit USDC

from base is a is a pretty common uh option. Like it's becoming a bit ingrained into like, you know, historically it's like yeah, deposit ETH from from Ethereum. Um and then you know lately trading bots and a lot of other apps like on Salana and I think now we're seeing a bit of that at least with kind of like integrations of new apps um a lot of base focused integrations. >> Yeah I um >> yeah it is well I want to share this chart but I'll just share it later. I I want to I wanted to show this just related to what we're So there we go.

Related to what we're talking about around uh BNB versus Coinbase and base. I just thought this was interesting. Like I don't know. We've seen and we know that a lot of this activity is like wash trade volume. That's not really the point I'm trying to make here, but that, you know, Binance and B&B Chain, like they did this this alpha campaign where you could earn points based on trading volume. And it was kind of like this logarithmic, you know, you earn x amount of points for $1 and then, you know, two points for 10 and then three points for 100 and four points for a thousand. So, kind of like uh an exponential drop off in the points you earn, but basically promoted people doing an absolute crap ton of volume. Um either way, uh this

was like a massive jump from them compared to 2021. So like they were still able to pull on the levers of this ecosystem to like drive trading activity and they like they've tied it into, you know, they have Binance Alpha now. They're still doing like some of these launch pools and these other campaigns. So I think the broader point that I'm making about like Bass and Coinbase is that I don't think like they've not successfully done this yet, which Coinbase has done. Um and and I think that they can still like leverage this opportunity into uh you know sort of a ecosystem by like further integrating what happens across those and we're seeing them like kind of start to play with those ideas right like they've enabled you know morpho lending in the in the base app for example so it's like

you just use the app but then it you lend out your BTC and borrow uh US stables against it and it's all just done via Morpho on base behind the scenes and they're they're kind of like slowly rolling out more of these integrations like with the DEX aggregators for for trading on Coinbase as well. So, I just expect that they'll be able to kind of play the same game that that Binance has and it it should be pretty meaningful to to their growth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Interesting to note this trend though on uh on B&B. I had noticed that the volume was pretty much like straight line uh dropping since about June.

Yeah, I think was June Chinese coin season. When was Chinese coin season, dude? >> No, that was more recently. That was like September and they had it and it picked up for a couple of weeks in September. Uh the Chinese memes were going pretty crazy. I mean, they did >> that was fun, but I didn't do anything. >> They were doing like 10 billion a day in uh meme volume in September. But no, like in the beginning of June, May and June was when they started this Binance alpha trading campaign. So that's when the volume like massively spiked.

Um they had like some project token launches that like project tokens that just like instantly went to billion plus market caps. So >> when are you a buyer, Danny? Not of BMBB, but of what tokens will you buy when we inevitably hopefully bottom? Um, I mean, I think BTC is kind of in its own class at this point. I don't know. I think this is something that's been said a lot, but it's like kind of separated from the rest of the crowd. So, I I I kind of view that akin to like, you know, accumulating gold or like a spy position or something. So, um, but I do think, yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not going to like

say a price or anything, but BTC is something I like. I think hype still is is interesting. Um, I think it aligns pretty closely like I don't know. I you can check the Blockworks disclosures. I still I own a lot of Hood, Robin Hood. I think there's just sort of like um I don't know their their core thesis is like this generational transfer of wealth from boomers to millennials and millennials this is a platform that that aligns more closely with what they prefer or want to gamble on or want to invest on you know what have you started out mobile first and I think it fits that I think there's something about hyperlquid that kind of aligns somewhat with that with that thesis as well although it's more purp

today um I like hype from the perspective that I mean it seems like the most meaningful asset within the space today just from like a business revenue generation value acrruel to the token perspective though I do think there's a broader qu and like we talked a little bit when I was here maybe last Monday um with Charlie about some of the HyperVM stuff I think I guess what I would want to see from Hyperlid to like continue to be you supportive there is them continually seeking out new re revenue opportunities and like taking them for themselves. I I think

personally this idea of like fostering a community and like having other teams that build stuff and then those things make money like in your ecosystem. Like if you don't have a take rate on it then I don't then like I don't care. It's not meaningful. the community. That's ridiculous. >> Not not that you not not necessarily like [ __ ] the community, but like you can be the whole community. Like you can do all the apps. I think we've seen like the difficult part of looking for upside in Salana today is that a lot of the most successful things like jetto and um I don't know we see double zero coming to market and we see you know lots of these different like revenue opportunities that just are not like reflected or captured in soul itself.

Um, and so like when you're just waited to that check disclosures when you're just waited to like you know if it's if it's just the chain fees for example and those are compressing and then you're not somehow finding new revenue opportunities um then the upside looks kind of you know it looks questionable but you know I I would expect hype I mean I think we're seeing it from them right if they get into borrow lend on the main protocol um that's a new lever for them for revenues and I would expect them to do more. And so like to me there's this weird counterplay between potentially hyper core and the hypervm where stuff that maybe gets played around with on the hypervm is probably something of like a testing

ground for products that they could just natively integrate themselves and make the money on. Um and I think that's most bullish for hype token itself. >> I >> what are your thoughts on that? I completely so this one's tough. I think Hyperlquid is doing probably the best way of monetizing what you just talked about which is like other people building on top of them because if a terminal builds on top of you, you're taking like your chart, >> they still have to pay fees and they get to monetize on top of that. Um HIP free markets, same thing. Spot bridge like spot issuers, same thing. they take 50%.

Um, but you still let like these teams get make some money. Um, but we were talking about this with Mcbron. You missed it on Friday. Um, and I think a lot of chains realize this is that like you you get these builders to come build on top of you and you can't really moni like you can't charge them rent. um well you can but like you you're not doing it because there's no built-in way of doing it versus with Hyperlid like it has those free products um let's say HIPP spot markets HIPP2 and then also like builder codes which kind of have a built-in rent mechanism in that you're still getting like either 50% or 100% of the fees and you're allowing people to

build on top of you to get the remainder I guess like builder codes doesn't really fit into it because the same as Salana like a boss charging a percent of fees, whatever. Um, but there's that mechanism of getting like capturing 50% of it. Um, I agree with you like that's you have to do that because or else you're you're building a public good. Um, and public goods don't can't command very high valuations um, historically. And I don't know like I would I would be surprised if we don't see um, Solana build in some form of rent mechanism. um they should and I would be surprised if Base doesn't as well like the more economically and revenue-minded. I think Hyperlid got kind of lucky because they

are um relatively new and they can kind of like mess around a bit. I don't think the team cares too much about like what other people have to say. I think Solana has had a particularly difficult time with this because for its entire history it's always been bashed as not being decentralized enough versus like no one's like oh B&M is not decentralized. like, "Yeah, buddy. We know." And >> yeah, and nobody cares because they make a [ __ ] ton of money. >> Like constantly defend itself, which is why it can't implement some of these things, and if it does, it gets a lot of like negative criticism. Um, versus like there's such a thing as sufficiently sufficient decentralization, and there's such a thing as like building something that's super performant. And you know,

to do that, you need to do some things differently. Um I would be surprised if they don't implement something like this over the next few years. I would be surprised if somebody at the Solana core team wasn't like exclusively thinking about or however however their structure is like Arizona agave or something is thinking about okay like we had eight months where we're the most dominant chain in the world. Everybody was deploying on us transacting on us and we made a lot of money just off of Geto tips. But now geo tips are going down. Now, there's more priority fees being paid, but this means that we're not making as much money, but we still have all of these apps who essentially pay us nothing to get these transactions through. Um, while they occupy most of our block space, um,

we're not a public good. You guys need to start paying some money. Like, I would be very shocked if this isn't an approach that they're going to take and rightfully so. I think I think these these chains should start charging because it's difficult to monetize consumers but I think it's it'll be more easy for them to approach like B2B and charge the protocols building on top of them. That's also like way easier for them I would say in my opinion. And I I think everyone that's building in the space is like aware of this, right? Like we we we've pretty clearly gotten away from your thing, your token can just be worth any any valuation with no revenue. And it's very clearly now like, oh, you actually have to make money to survive here or your token's going to zero. Um and and I think they

have examples of like where this this is well known within their ecosystem like double zeros monetization model who you know disregard the token price today but like they're going to be if they're going to be able to capture x% of like validator rewards and fee rewards from all the the members that opt in like they have a they have a pretty clear like revenue model that that can scale. Um to your point like does soul need to find some kind of rent model or other model of like basically getting away from like we're seeing that chains like a chain doesn't necessarily make any money but a platform makes a lot of money. So, if you can charge basically a platform fee to all of your partners that grow on you, then uh you can you can ensure that that you make more money

in the future. Because I I think we're seeing this more and more like I don't have this chart right now, but something that like Daniel Shapiro and Carlos, for example, like to throw around quite a bit is this divergence between Rev and app revenues. And I think that's going to continue. So, unless you can find a way to to get a piece of app revenue, then um you're going to struggle. >> So, I agree with your point about the decentralization thing. And I think what we're kind of coming to is like a bit of a crossroads here where you can kind of go one of two ways. And if you go the decentralization like full decentralization maxi way, you're going to just miss out on a bunch of revenue and it's your token is going to be put in question. And if you like kind of say

whatever, like we're just going to build this [ __ ] and make money off of it. Um you can at least point to your revenues and say the token can go up and to the right. And like you know, sure maybe it's not maximally decentralized, but like do you want it to be maximally decentralized or do you want your tokens to go up? >> Token to go up. Next question. >> Um before we go anywhere else, if you have nothing else to say on that topic, which I think we're in a pretty strong agreement on, uh I do want to do a quick shout out to our sponsors for today's stream. Katana, thank you so much for sponsoring today's stream. Katana is an L2 built for DeFi and is pioneering the ecosystem category of productive TVL, believing that change should be graded on how efficiently assets are put to

work in DeFi rather than just total value locked. From now on to the end of November, users that bridge the Canatana can earn boosted yield from CAT incentive campaigns, added vault, bridge yield, and other chain revenue. Follow the link in today's show notes to get started. And another quick shout out to Uniswap Labs. Thanks to Uniswap for sponsoring today's stream. The Uniswap trading API solves the problem of adding crypto to your products without the hassle of needing deep crypto expertise. ongoing maintenance or liquidity aggregation. The trading API provides access to the unis swap protocol which has processed 3.3 trillion in all-time volume, handled over 465 million swaps for more than 25 million addresses, all with zero security breaches. Developed by Uniswap Labs, the US-based team behind one of the most used DeFi apps, access some of the deepest liquidity in

crypto, combining both onchain and off-chain sources for optimal pricing. The same liquidity that powers billions and swaps now available via a singular API. Thanks again. Shout out to our sponsors for today's stream. >> I um one thing I want to say is did you see that unis swap buenos football tournament soccer tournament as you >> it looked pretty sick. I saw some guy do crazy stuff >> all unis swap. They were all >> No, it's like it's for like every it's for like the eve it's for dev connect um and it's for like the eve teams.

>> Oh okay. >> It looked pretty cool. They they got like custom jerseys made and stuff. looked fun. >> Who who who are the front like who who are kind of like the fitness chads of the ETH ecosystem because >> I guess some of the devs that I'm thinking of not necessarily like I would peg them to be big soccer players per se. >> Okay, let's not explore that thought too much because we're not going to get sponsors. But um >> I don't know who's the top team. What's what what would be a top pick? >> I saw some guy do something. I need to find it. Maybe we'll include it in the show notes. Maybe I'll get I I'll ask the producers to do that and then they'll be very upset. [laughter] >> All right. Maybe no Maybe no pictures of

of Ethereum devs. That's fine. >> Um no, but it looked pretty sick. I like >> Ox Zucky reporting in live from the event telling us that ZK Sync won. So apparently the ZK Sync guys are soccer or football Chads. >> Oh, I didn't know that. Congrats to the ZK Sync team. Um very very good. Okay, last thing on that rant thing. Um >> yes, >> not financial advice. >> Not financial advice. Um one thing is oh I wanted to finish up the speed to be thought thing which is that it's very dirty business to build a blockchain as well like if anything >> dirty

>> if you know like it's it's me like you're doing a lot of really hardcore engineering. I'm sure that app teams are like very capable programmers and they're very capable scientists and they know how things work. Like lending to me also seems very scary but for like a whole another reason because a lot of math starts getting involved and like the money that is involved in that is very different to the amount of money that's in like a another type of protocol like an intense protocol. Um, but since like blockchains are very very hard work, I don't think that you wanna like I don't think AWS would have done well if it monetized for consumers. I think it monetized for businesses which makes a

lot more sense. And I think that's what blockchain should also do because it's a very dirty business and you just want to like charge a mass amount of fee to one guy. You don't want to deal with a billion people. Um, plus like you and I are more fees sensitive. I would say like you said like some of these apps I think how much did Axium make? Like 600 mil? >> Axi or Axiom? >> Axiom. >> Uh, we have a we have a dashboard. Hold on. >> Okay, I'm going to make something up. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Let's say they made 300 mil over the past year. You can charge [clears throat] Axiom 50 mil somehow. I don't know what the math comes out to, but you can charge them, you know, like one sixth of every dollar they make, you get um and

they're still going to be on Solana because the reason that they're making that money is because all of the activities on Solana and I think Hyperlid kind of realizes this and it's like because like when Hyperlid launched um I guess like HIPP3 is a little bit late and HIPP2 is also a little bit late, but this wasn't when like Hyperlid was the very dominant pers like the others were. Well, we we're still arguing who wins per like some people are like drift. Some people are like the YDX will make a comeback. Some people are saying Aster. >> Yeah. White said he's going all in drift now.

>> Yeah. Like it's Jimoff is all in drift. No, but I [laughter] mean serious like there's there are these people who are arguing that like Hyperlid hasn't won. And I don't think Hyperlquid team thinks that they won, but they're still going out of their way to like charge um charge protocols building on top of them and like compete with them, which I think is the right thing to do because these protocols realize that they're going to make money on hyperlquid. So, you're just taking a percent of it. And if you're making your partner money, I don't think they'll have any trouble paying you to be able to have that right to make money. So yeah, I think Solana can definitely like if and it's I think it's still this morning I checked it's like the third highest rev or revenue um

which I think probably translates it has like if we extrapolate it probably has the third highest um activity and like users spending money on it. So I would be surprised if they they should charge and teams I think should be happy to pay. Um, we say block space is infinite and it's like a little meme like block spaces and scars whatever. Like you know you can just build on X chain, but it's not how it works. You and I both know it's not how it works. If uh what's a non-offensive like if somebody builds on Harmony One now like yeah, they have a lot of blocks because I'm not going to [ __ ] use it and you're not going to use it. Like we know what chains we want to use. Um and chains should charge for that. I think that's that's not a very

controversial thing to say. Yeah, I guess maybe the only point I would add is that I think that over time more and more that's probably going to like be obiscated to the end user and I think we're seeing this in some respects like if you use Phantom wallet for example like you know they have like eight or nine chains integrated now and like you as the user like sure maybe you like maybe you don't use the inup swaps maybe you pull up like Jupiter to swap on Soul or you pull up like um air drrome swap on your base balance or they don't even support bass yet technically but I guess you could still you could still do it hypothetically through the inapp browser but um you know I think I think we're

still in this point where you have kind of like power users who still interact with things in a way where they're like kind of natively interacting with like the the infra like the chain underneath in many ways but a lot of the newer apps and like you know even this a app uh I think more and more we're getting to that point where like that probably won't happen as much or anymore for like the typical user. Um, and you'll just care about like what's this product experience you're getting? Um, and and not really be as worried about the uh the technicals underneath it. But I but I think that kind of aligns with your point about, you know, if you're hyperlquid and you're this platform and you charge sort of like B2B fees to all

of your partners who integrate you into their app experiences, like the user doesn't necessarily need to know or care that it's that it's hype powering the per like their Rabby wallet. They just they just pull up the per tab and and do a do a trade. >> Yeah. >> And I think that makes a lot of sense as a model. >> Makes all right. What's the What's our last topic of the day? We have five minutes. What are we telling people? >> Am I too loud? >> I think you're fine. I don't know. I read this as well and I was like, I think Simpson the 5460. You're wrong, buddy. He's I don't think you're too loud. We'll get feedback from >> We'll figure it out.

>> We'll figure it out. >> Maybe not. Maybe they're Maybe they got the volume on Max. >> Yeah. >> Um >> that' be so funny. [laughter] >> Kaza intern saying Farcoin to five billion. I don't know, man. Have you seen that chart recently? I think um might need to reconsider that idea. >> I don't know. I don't even know what it's at now. >> It's probably You're going to make me guess. I'm going to say like 23 cents. Like what is that? 200 mil. >> I'll pull it up. >> Most viable chart in crypto. [laughter] Yeah. I don't know.

>> It's 25 cents. It's not bad. >> I don't know what that comes out to. 250 mil. >> Jeez, I thought it would be Oh, no. >> Yeah, 250 mil. Sad. >> Yeah, we're definitely seeing the down tick. We're seeing the the down tick in um in meme trading for sure. >> [sighs] >> I was, we say this a lot and I feel like every single time I've chatted with somebody on any app, on any like Telegram, Twitter, any discussion that I've seen, they always say, "Memecoins are down.

How the [ __ ] is Pump Fund still buying a million dollars a day?" Right? Like this. No, but you're laughing. But this is legitimately I've talked with this to Rodeo to like people in these Twitter groups and these Telegram groups and it's it's insane. Like look at these guys. They bought 920K today. They bought No, yesterday they bought 1.1 mil the day before. They bought 1.1 mil the day before. 1.3 mil the day before. And it's like we think it's dead, but like I haven't if somebody sends me a memecoin like before I was like, "Holy [ __ ] I got to buy this right now. It's going to go up 15x." Now I will look I will check and

then it's like by the time that I price check it again it's down 30%. It feels like nobody's buying meme coins and these guys are I mean the last four days that we checked they're making 1 1.2 mil whatever. Like let's say they're making four 450 mil a year. That's a lot of money generated by one memecoin app, the most dominant one, but by one memecoin app annualized per year. Um, at a time when we're saying meme coins are dead. And I mean, God forgive me for saying this, but I told this to Ryan Connor and I was like, Ryan, I think memecoins will be dead next year. And he was like, I'll take a bet on it. And I'm happy I never took the bet because memecoins are dead in my mind, but clearly the data shows

that they they just they won't die. It's like I think they're at their baseline now. And I think if at the baseline pump is making a million a day unless they're doing something weird in the back end, which I don't think they are because they're they're you can see the flow of the funds. So you can't be like like yeah >> it's like I I'll trust Dan Smith with my life on the data and the data is clearly here like it's it's correct they're making a mill 2 mill a day. Um >> yeah maybe just for context like if if you want to say dead like March of this year when we went the market like absolutely ate [ __ ] they were still

doing a million a day um in revenue at that time. And so like we're we're like you said we're back at that water mark again where they've you know there have been some there's been some periods of exuberance obviously late September um kind of like into April and May there was some activity there. Um you can see kind of where Bonk entered the picture bonk fun in in July. Um, yeah. I don't know. To say like dead dead. I mean, you'd probably have to go to these levels like without a competitor taking away the market share. Like if they if they trended down to these kind of like bonk stole all the market share and this is what we were left with type of revenues like maybe you could make more of a case there. I think what I would say is like and and I've generally been

of the opinion that like they won't die but I would expect cyclicality and it doesn't surprise me to see that like you know we had a period of like such craziness with them like it you know it it can't really continue forever and there'll be like a down there'll be a down period and they'll find new games to play like I don't I think they just launched like this mayhem mode thing um and obviously they they acquired Padre. So like they're they're one they're leaning into like additional revenue streams to kind of bolster the kind of broad product offering first. Um I mean we could see Padre is only like a small fraction of what they make today, but still it's a creative to what they're

doing. Um yeah, I don't know. I think to say that they'll die is it it's in my mind a little silly to say that like definitively meme coins will die when like 99% of the tokens that exist in crypto are memecoins um and and the whole industry is not dead yet. So I I think it's just sort of like the wrong side to be on when most of the of the trading of assets that exists in the space is speculative in nature already. Like people want to just play the speculative game. So whether this is just like a, you know, a cyclic down for turn for pump, we'll we'll kind of have to see.

>> Yeah, it's it's something that we're going to look back on and be like, >> "Yeah, it was very obvious." [snorts] [laughter] No matter what the outcome is, somebody will look back and say, "Yeah, it was very obvious." >> That's fair. Um, I do have to fulfill one last shout out for the day. Uh, thank you to our sponsor again, Katana, sponsoring today's stream. Katana is an L2 built for DeFi and is pioneering in the ecosystem category of productive TBL. In just two months, Katana has surpassed 500 million of TVL with over 90% of that TBL being productive in ecosystem apps like Sushi and Morpho. From now till the

end of November, users that bridge to Katana can earn boosted yield from cat incentive campaigns, added vault bridge yield, and other chain revenue. Follow the link in today's show notes to get started. Thanks so much to Katana. [snorts] Uh yeah, I mean I guess where do we go from here? I guess you were you were bullish pump. So I guess I'm curious like >> you know you would have Okay, you're out of pump now. >> I'm fully out of pump. That's the only token that I fully sold that I'm like I'm happy. because it it fell after I sold as well. I held this token up. I held this token down. I can't keep holding it down.

>> What was it? The like what was your thesis there? I'm curious because like to say that you would have thought memes would be dead but then to be long the coin like is it just because the buybacks or what? Yeah, I think [sighs] yeah, that was basically I and I was right at the time as well. Like I bought 10th of October, like 11th of October, whatever. Like I bought at like 36 um and then market got better. It held up really well during that following that a bit as well. I mean clearly everybody else was bidding it as well. Um, and then yeah, I mean it had like one 1.5 mil a day being bought. Um, and just off of that I kind of felt safe. Like I

wanted to be in I wanted to have some up like exposure to potential upside but I didn't want to like hold pure dog [ __ ] Um, and I was like well pump is like they're buying back the token. Um, they have some form of value acrruel. So to me it made sense to buy and then it went up and I held it down. and I went up again and I held it down and then this time like I was like, "Yeah, I'm out." This time >> I think pump is a tough one because this is just my read on like what the market is saying about the token, but it seems to me that like the only buyer of the coin is is the protocol itself.

Like they're buying they're shipping a million into the coin and yet it trends it trends lower. And like, you know, maybe that's just people people expect maybe what you're saying that like they think meme coins are going to die and then therefore all the revenue is going to go to zero. And of course, you're not going to you're not going to buy it based on prior buybacks. You you're buying on the expectation of future future revenues. So, you know, the market's either expecting like memecoins to just go to nothing or they think like no one else is buying this thing except for the protocol in which case it's like >> uh but I mean the protocol is buying a significant amount. they bought back 12% of the token. Like it's it's a ridiculous amount of the token to buy back. Um yeah, I guess people don't

think memecoins come back. And I don't know. It's I didn't like to me I was very much in the camp of memecoins never come back again after the first round of memecoins and then after [laughter] coins and after the third round of memecoins and then we had AI Asian meme coins and then Trump launched the token and then now like those four times happened and I was always like yeah that was it that was the blowoff top we never get them back again and now that they're like down in volume I'm like oh yeah they're definitely coming back which makes me think I'm almost definitely wrong because I've never been right about them. So why would I be right about them now? Um I don't know the argument to this is

>> Yes sir. >> I think what I would say is like I would I would have had a much stronger opinion in mid 2024 like August whenever when people at that time were saying yeah memecoins are dead forever here. Um I was very loudly bullish and wrote a report about memecoins going much much higher and that was correct. What I would say today though is like I could see I could see the outcome where this maybe is a cyclical kind of down downward point for memecoins again. And so like that puts a lot of question marks on stuff like pump. The other point that I would say though is like they could still be a massive winner even if memecoins die if they can build out other products with

>> you know revenue streams that are meaningful. you know, like Padre could just be one piece. Like obviously that's still like dependent on memecoin trading, but like they could have a a purpose trading integration. They could do whole bunch of other products that they can monetize um and build out like more of a platform for users um and make a ton of money. But it might just be, you know, they're so weighted to the memecoin space today that like if we're really entering into like a cyclical down period for memes as a whole, uh they, you know, they might just get hit a lot by the market for that.

>> Yeah. I um I'm trying to find these daily data from like they were making seven mil a day on in December. So, but the reason I'm saying this is like the most lucrative business opportunity there is is memecoins um for pump. Um so, yeah, like they could build out all these other things, but like Padre is making 60K a day. Um let's say it 10xes that it's still 10x less than like an average day in well not an average day obviously like a very peak activity day in January. But, um I don't know. I like I guess like one

thought I somebody tweeted this out and it's like reason pump is not trading well isn't because of like the meme coins but it's because it's a it's like the number one app in a sector that's in secular decline compared to other like because everything else is doing well. um not price-wise but like bro everything else is doing well and it's like like is the sexy story memecoins or is it equity burps or is it like the pay for order flow lighter model or is it like a launching a a a good online app a good mobile app you know like um and that's something that you have to think about like that's more of like a it's more of something I think people

should start thinking a bit more and more about including me is like am I buying something that's because I wouldn't buy like an AI agent token right now, right? Like why would I? >> Yeah, I mean I guess if we look at per like for Hyperlid specifically they you know they were they were trending up and to the right until August and uh for pump it the chart does not look quite the same, right? like they they set lower highs relative to the activity at the beginning of 2025. Um seeing a decline now in the past few months, which you know isn't really surprising given where the market is. But yeah, I think to your point there we're at a point in the memecoin game if you just

look back at this year where people are questioning like is this sector kind of screwed for a while whereas they're still looking at at per with kind of like rosecolored glasses. I think you could potentially make the argument though that like who knows may like maybe this is near the end of the honeymoon period for like up and to the right per growth. Um, so maybe there will have to be a little bit of like a a pullback here for that activity as well. >> Yeah, like this is hyperlquid total revenue, right? And you can clearly see that month on month it's going up. Um, or like it's at least staying the same.

Like August was the big month like you said. Uh, one second. I'm going to pull up pump, but my I'm not that good at my computer, so you're gonna have to give me a second. Fun total revenue. There we go. And then this is pump. Um, I'm on the wrong thing. There we go. This is month monthly pump. And it's like >> I do think like um I don't know similar to the I think at the beginning of this year people got like there was talk of the revenue meta and uh people just overindexed on like what that number was. Um, and now we're in like this buybacks meta. And people I think are

maybe overindexing on what that number is at a point in time. And um, like way oversimplifying this idea that like it's great to have revenue and it's great to have buybacks, but the number has like they it has to grow like in the future. So you can look back in the past 30 days and say like they're buying back so much of the token. you know, this thing is cheap, but if that number goes down, um, was it was it cheap or was it priced appropriately? And I think that's what a lot of the discussion just kind of misses. It's like, oh, big number buyback, but no discussion of like, okay, up or down in the future.

>> Yeah, I guess that's Well, we're not there yet, right? Like, we need to wait a bit. We're going to get into forecasting next. >> Yeah, [laughter] we need we need the timeline to still they're still getting through that class, I guess. including me apparently who can't think six months ahead and who can [laughter] now >> it was I mean it was the same thing with the revenue meta it was like oh these things have the biggest revenues but it's like you still have to make you know you have to have an opinion on whether those are going to be higher or lower six months out it's not just like oh it has big revenues now because that that could have been the top >> okay >> call it there this is something that Ryan Connor says a Maybe I'll end with

this point is that like saying that like daily data and like block block like per block data is actually maybe more of like a a downside than people think because they tend to like overindex on like oh they made a million yesterday and they kind of miss sort of like zooming out you know quarter over quarter month over month like what does growth look like? Um I think we tend to do this in crypto a lot. It's like, oh, they made a million last week, but it's like maybe that was the top of uh of the protocol. So yeah >> good advice. Good advice. Like, generally, maybe just zoom out a little bit.

>> I don't have any response to this, but this to me multiple times is when I I'm getting kind of flashbacks. >> All right, box in the trenches, PTSD. We'll we'll call it there for today. Thank you so much. Do you have any uh you shout out the newsletter? Anything you want to shout out? >> People know about the newsletter, guys. Please subscribe to the newsletter. But we're doing quite well. I actually don't have to beg people anymore. Don't subscribe to the newsletter. We don't >> Yeah, don't subscribe. We have enough of you guys already. You don't even need the alpha. We don't we don't really want you to have it. You're going to dilute >> you're going to dilute the ideas a little too much. So, if you do want it though, subscribe research newsletter.

Hear from the analysts every week. our thoughts on crypto protocols, markets, all included. Um, and we give out we give out access to some of the research reports every now and then as well. So, uh, definitely subscribe if you're not. Check out the Xerx Research Telegram, uh, and join the conversation. Otherwise, that's all for today, folks, and we will see you Friday with some exciting guests to close out the week. >> We do have exciting guests to close out the week. I'll tweet about them tomorrow, though. I don't want to tease it too much now.

>> All right, details tomorrow. You'll find out. And we'll see you Friday. >> Peace. >> Peace, guys.