🚨LIVE: Saylor SELLS?! HYPE ATH Imminent?! LIT Flying! STRC Back To $90! Securitize & Terpin

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Seven floors. >> [music] >> We'll see you around the timeline. >> [music] >> Feels good to be back. >> I think The Rollup [music] is one of the most premier media brands [singing] in crypto, and Andy and Robbie are great experts [music] at everything they talk about, and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding it to my library as we speak. >> Potentially multi-chain deployments.

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>> Survive the meltdown. These institutions aren't coming, they're simply here. This [music] is the total re-imagination of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. >> Let's go. Happy Monday. It is the Rollup, and we are back. First stream post Machu Picchu. I was in the Incan capital citadel in Peru for a week. It was absolutely incredible. I'm stoked to be back. So much has happened in the last week. Uh Sailor's buying, Sailor's selling. Today he's selling. Bitcoin is back above 60. Uh left, right, and center, things are happening. New

stablecoins are going live. I mean, I just had an absolute onslaught to get caught up. I was pretty much AFK for the last week. Felt pretty good. Got to touch some grass. and uh what an absolute industry we find ourselves in. I want to first I mean we're going to get started cuz we've got securitize which is now a public company and Billy's got a hard stop. He's going to be joining us in a minute because he's got to run to the New York Stock Exchange to ring the opening bell or the closing bell. He's going to ring some bells, but we had an absolute insane week last week.

Trump is personally giving and taking away red cards in the World Cup. Strategy's buying, then strategy's selling. SpaceX, Binance, Kalshi, Polymarket, new open US dollar stablecoin. We're we're we're really really just in the thick of these things. All of these things that you're hearing about are the makings of the next cycle which is extremely exciting and we're going to be talking to you guys. What is extremely cool is that the market is rebounding. Everyone feels good about it. You've got Ansem coin flying. He's giving away airdrops.

You've got hype ripping to new all-time highs. You've also got lighter ripping. You've also got several coins that are doing extremely well based on the back of their fundamentals. You've got Aerodrome making their push into mainnet. These coins are actually making money. They're real businesses and that is why the market is bidding them. So guys, let's get into today's topics. We've got a great show for you guys today. As always, shout out to our our friends over at Plume. We had our friends in the Empire State Building. I'm down here in Florida, but we are going to get into today's show.

The tokenization tower as always shout out to Plume. We've got our first guest today is Billy Miller. He's going to be joining us in just a moment. They are going live. They are going public. We're going to get all the details, all the nitty-gritty around securitize and their partnership and and and what it means to be a public company and then we've got Michael Terpin that is going to be joining us after that. Um guys, Billy's got some opening bells to ring. So, we're going to go quickly into him uh behind the scenes. Let's get him teed up and ready to go. Uh we've got quite a bit to get to with Billy and Securitize.

And then we're going to bring you guys some more of the news a little bit later. But, guys, Billy Miller is the COO of Securitize. Let's bring him up on the show, and he is one of the leaders of tokenization. As we tokenize the world, and Securitize is going to be publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange. Let's bring him up. Billy Miller, COO of Securitize. Billy, welcome to the show, man. How you doing? >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. Great to see you again. >> Absolutely. I remember our conversation from last time was great. You guys have done incredible work uh in recent months.

I mean, I I want to I want to learn and hear about everything that you guys have going on. Uh this is, you know, the most recent public company in crypto and tokenization. Just tell us a little bit about about how you're feeling on this historic day. >> We are incredibly excited. It's It's been a really fun past week. It's been many many many months of preparation to to get to this point. We actually went public officially on Thursday when our ticker flipped. So, we did a SPAC merger with the Cantor Fitzgerald SPAC, uh CEPT. So, we were here at the uh New York Stock Exchange to ring the first trade bell on Thursday when we officially flipped our ticker to SECZ, sexy. So, it's it's been a really fun

experience. Today we're going back in about 20 minutes um to go ring the closing bell and celebrate with the team and partners. Uh so, it's been a really exciting full circle moment for all the hard work that we've had over the past 8 years to build this business and and build the revenue to the point it is today where we felt like taking that plunge into to public equity space was was the next logical step for us as a company and we're really excited to finally be there. >> I think. I mean, you guys have been pioneers of tokenization, been in the game for a long, long time, have some tremendous partnerships with both teams on the digital asset side as well as teams in the more traditional and public markets.

Um, Billy, I know we're going to speed run through a bunch of stuff cuz I you guys got the closing bell here in a few minutes. So, um I'm curious mostly because from, you know, all across the docket, we're seeing teams stay private longer. There's There's larger and larger private companies out there in the world. What was the incentive for Securitize, tremendous ticker by the way, SEXY, I mean, just couldn't couldn't be beat. So, what was the incentive for you guys to go public, become a public company through this SPAC merger? And And do you think this some of the incentives, and as you get into it, do you think this applies broadly to private markets, more companies should be going public? Why does it matter for you to be public? And And maybe you can just generally speak to the rest of the

the space as a whole. >> Yeah, I think over the past couple years, we've seen a rise of these mega IPOs, right? You they stay public or they stay private as long as humanly possible and a lot of the wealth creation happens on the venture and private side from initial fundraising and then they debut and go public at massive valuations where retail upside is pretty limited. We've seen some big flashy IPOs even in the crypto space that have barely gotten back to their initial public offering price. So, we thought we've been around for 8 years, we've established this business, we've run it in a regulated capacity. So, all of the the things that we've done is is kind of already acting like a public company. So, we thought it was

the logical step to take advantage of this moment in time, control our own destiny to get to this point so we can go public and that just continues the vision. It doesn't change anything about what Securitize seeks to do. It just gives us a bigger war chest to go do it. You know, raising about $400 million, tokenizing our own equity, it really helps bridge this industry from this early institutional adoption side to the retail side that the trust is there. The real the rails are there, and the issuers now have a playbook to come do exactly what we did. You know, take a company public and tokenize your own equity, and help move the tokenization movement forward.

>> Yeah. It It's pretty incredible to see you guys sort of, you know, take your own advice, go ahead, go public, but also tokenize your own stock. Uh and and so as we're looking at expanding access uh to this equity, obviously there's a value proposition of the business as a whole. How do you communicate this value proposition to the market broadly? And is there a difference in how you're communicating this on, you know, kind of the the the New York Stock Exchange side versus, you know, we've got this tokenized equity. What would you describe to people how you should go get this tokenized version versus this traditional version? Is it just a matter of access, or is there different value proposition here?

>> There There's definitely different things you can do with those shares, which which is the exciting part. The The tokenization industry is is still young. You know, we're 30 to 40 billion on any given day. Crypto as a whole, let's call it 2 and 1/2 3 trillion. The entire investable market is 300 to 400 trillion. So we have a long way to go. We're at 1% of the 1%. So by doing this now, we are really trying to enable choice for investors to engage with the asset how they want to. If I want to hold a stock in a brokerage account, and I do not care about the plumbing, I don't care about borrowing against those shares, I don't care about 24/7 trading, great. You know, that that existing infrastructure is there for you.

But if you are the type of investor that we expect a lot of this next generation to adopt, where you do want to hold your own asset, you do want to use that asset however you want with a little less intermediation of, you know, more clearly seeing it, using it, using it in DeFi, trading it when you want to, I think that's a huge unlock to bridge these two markets together where TradFi can exist as they already want to today and we're still very active in that market. But the, you know, crypto-savvy type investors now can engage with a US-registered retail product. This is not some wrapper or derivative or synthetic asset. These are the actual shares that can now be issued, traded in the United States in a, you know,

crypto-native way. >> Yeah. And this is something that, you know, we obviously agree with. We think that there is an investing cohort that is going to be interacting with these. They're going to be using them and making them programmable in all sorts of ways. As you look ahead, I mean, there there's obviously, you know, sort of this resurgence of fundamentals when it comes to the crypto tokens. And we're seeing that all across the board. You guys have started off from first principles, you know, driving a real business here, not not doing any sort of like meme coin, you know, shenanigans.

We're going to continue to see that. That is our thesis here on on this show. What are you guys doing to drive the business forward? I'm I'm curious, is it sort of a downhill, like you've got gravity on your side, you've got a ton of momentum with the partnerships because these were all very, very ambitious and innovative early on? Now that you've kind of laid the groundwork, do you see a lot of your your potential next customers coming to you a lot more inbound based on the examples that you've set, or are you still fighting a continuous uphill battle trying to educate people on tokenization and the value of it? Just curious where you think we are in the adoption cycle of tokenization.

>> To to answer your first part of the question, I I think transparency and governance is good and that is one of the reasons that we're going public. Having audited financials, having, you know, transparency to the management team on what our focus areas on what we're executing well, what our struggle points are to to let everybody know is huge because we've lacked that in crypto, right? You have no idea what some of these assets that you're buying, their structures, their revenue, like how they make money, what they're doing. Being a publicly traded company that gets to exist in that space gives a lot of confidence not just to retail, but everybody that's participating in this industry to kind of get a look behind the curtain on how things are done. So, we're really excited about that.

But I it's never been an inbound problem. So, where we are in the adoption curve is our phone still rings off the hook. Every large institution, every issuer of any type is still trying to explore tokenization, whether it's for some utility unlock or whether it's some C-suite or board-level objective to do something in the tokenization space. We're all happy about that. But what I think has to happen for adoption to continue to hockey stick is real assets doing real things on chain. And that was one of the things we set out to do by tokenizing our own stock day one. We didn't want to kind of slow roll it out and and you know, flirt with different things. We wanted to do it day one. It's it's a new industry. It will grow. It's not overnight this massive thing where millions of people are buying and

transacting, but somebody has to do it to let the market know that it's being done and then roll [snorts] out the playbook to any other issuer that wants to do it. So, that's the exciting part for the adoption curve that I I personally am excited is now people have a path to do it. It's it's kind of what BlackRock did when they did their tokenized treasury fund is a lot of the large asset managers got comfortable and said, "Okay, look, BlackRock did it. You know, here's exactly how they did it. Here's who they partnered with." And that gives a lot of confidence to actually execute and get things on chain, which benefits all of us. >> Ex- exactly. And and you guys have ironed out a lot of the complexity with some of those early partners. Now you have a bit more of a generalized

playbook where you kind of know the levers and the gears that you can push and pull in order to make something a little bit more tailored to the those who are now coming in. They can sort of build on the on the shoulders of giants if you will as a result of those those early partnerships. Um that's sort of where we are in tokenization as far as, you know, Securitize and what you guys have done up until now and where we're going. I'm also curious on the growth story for Securitize in particular. Carlos Domingo, the the CEO founder of Securitize um you know, someone you you work with very closely said he wants to spend 400 million on M&A. How does this fit into the growth story of Securitize?

>> I I think we were also well positioned to do this and and get that capital in the war chest just because, you know, being a profitable company that's operated and closely controls expenses, we don't need that capital to operate this business. So, it was really nice to have the optionality of how to deploy and use that, you know, that capital we raised. And obviously in this space, M&A in crypto has been kind of a strange journey of of traditional firms buying these crypto crypto firms and some crypto firms kind of trying to sell themselves and going bankrupt. You know, it's been a kind of a messy unorganized space. So, obviously we'll look at opportunities that are complimentary to our platform. Obviously we we've been at it a long time. There

are some components of a tokenization platform that competitors have that we don't necessarily need. So, you know, we don't want to justify high valuations for other companies out there that are trying to wind it down or sell to somebody else. But I think we'll keep our eyes peeled for accretive opportunities that add to our existing offerings as opposed to enhance them that we already have on the shelf. So, it'll be a fun interesting space to to look at and just be prepared when, you know, whether the crypto market goes up or down, you know, there will always be opportunities out there. So, being in this position to look at them is is a huge win for us.

>> Yeah, and and people are excited. I think they they recognize the opportunity. We've got a couple guys in the chat that are asking some questions. Uh Shine00 it says, "Can we buy SEXY on hype?" Uh I mean, can we buy SEXY on hype or uh where where can we get access on chain to the SEXY uh ticker? >> So, you know, like I mentioned earlier, rolling it out was priority number one for us and making sure that's in a regulated way was was our number one priority. So, right now you buy it through Securitize. We have a website stocks.securitize.io.

You can go out a wallet and, you know, execute a trade in a compliant way through our broker-dealer there. But, you know, doing this and just like many other tokenization projects, we want to get it out and we want to enhance it over time. Uh like some of our products where we've added new features, we've added new blockchains, added new ecosystems. For us, the the hard work is not done yet. You know, we got it out there, but we need to continuously integrate it and make it available to as many people across platforms in a compliant way. So, I'd stay tuned on that one. >> Nice, very cool. Um I know you've only got a few minutes left here. We've got a a a bell to go ring.

Um what is the number one thing holding you guys back? Is it is it still education or is it just, you know, scaling the team, being able to handle all those inbound calls? >> I think we're good from a a scale of the team perspective. We've grown our team to a healthy size. We have, you know, AI initiatives internally that have helped move the needle. You know, so we're we're pretty set from that perspective, but I think it's the maturity of this industry. We're we're still in It's it's still nascent technology for TradFi to adopt. You know, we have exchanges coming in. We have transfer agents. We have the big banks. We have broker-dealers. We have um you know, people that play on both sides of the fence, which is really exciting. But, over the next few years, the real opportunistic outlook is that this technology is not just kind of a a

flash in the pan that oh, this is cool. How does it use? This is this has staying power. So, I think you know, for us to continue to succeed, we look to assets on chain. We look at AUM. We look at deeper integrations. We look at traditional financial firms exposing their wealth and retail channels to the type of assets and and find a new way to work with them. So, it's not kind of gated behind advisories advisors in some opaque structure. This is more kind of tradfi and individual investors working hand-in-hand with a new type of asset.

So, I'm most excited for that, but because it is all new, it will take time and I think we'll be there however this morphs and and helping move it forward a little faster. >> And and what are some of the the next steps from Securitize as you move into the you know, public equity space? Do you guys have to handle yourselves differently? Is there a compliance team that you know, now you're going to have to run more things through? What what can we expect from the pace of innovation, new products, launches, partnerships, everything coming down the partnership down down the pipeline with Securitize?

Will you guys have to navigate a little bit differently now or is it full steam ahead as it's always been? >> It's always been full steam ahead, but the benefit that a lot of people don't know is we've been acting like this for a long time. You know, for us to be able to win the BlackRock deal to tokenize that treasury fund, we had to go through a significant amount of pain. You know, these are insurance and policy and procedure tightening and you know, financial aspects and controls. So, we have been scaling our team in the background. We have been operating like a public company. Yes, there are nuances that you know, we have to bolster our IR team and there are components of being a public company that we're excited to you know, move into, but it's not this kind of reprogramming of what our mission is and

what we're out there doing every day. It's more of just a compliment to help us do it a little better and do it at a bigger scale. So, I think I think that aspect of being regulated, having these entities that we have to watch, and we have to have controls, and we have to have all these things that I could argue crypto has lacked in the past. Um it's been a really nice for us to move into the space cuz it doesn't change too much for us. It just helps us execute the vision that we always set out to do. >> Is Securitize a crypto company? Do you guys think of yourselves that way?

>> No. I mean, I I I think one of my favorite personal things about Securitize is we have a really good blend of uh crypto folks. You know, these are people that grew up in crypto or have worked for some of the largest crypto firms in the world that are deeply aware of and and ingrained in this ecosystem on understanding how it works. But, on the flip side, we have deeply traditional folks. These are people that came from regulated businesses and massive banks and massive firms that have operated in this traditional space. So, we have always been the blend. You know, we've always been that bridge on let's take the best of the technology that crypto offers us and apply it in a compliant way. So, eventually, over time, we can get to that traditional

financial system unlock, which is where that $400 trillion number is. >> Yeah. >> So, I think for us to be most successful, like the RWA space right now is 35 billion or so. You know, we want to hit that first trillion. And even at that point, 1/400th of of the entire investable market, we still have a long way to go. So, I expect Securitize to remain that market leader, to keep moving the ball forward, see the amount of tokenized assets on chain being used in in really innovative and interesting ways grow, and and we get to be the catalyst that helps us move way past this this number and and start hitting hitting on the real big numbers.

>> And and it it seems like the tokenization of RWAs is the it the accelerant to the industry right now. Sometimes it's it's been you know it's been Bitcoin leading or it's been you know smart contracts and more technological advancements but right now it feels like it's this momentous wave of assets that are coming on chain. We have this thesis that all those assets into flowing into these D5 protocols whether those are regulated or permissionless and ultimately this is the rising tide that lifts all boats.

I I and and you know this is from you guys to Robinhood to BlackRock to JP Morgan we're seeing this adoption we're seeing the philosophical adoption of these ideas more so than we've ever seen. When when you look at you know Vlad from Robinhood saying and launching his chain and going in this direction and you see JP Morgan finally coming around to this idea. This is validation and and you guys must feel vindicated cuz you like you said you've been in this game for 10 years you've been doing this for a long time and and now everyone is sort of coming around to the very similar ideas that you guys have been preaching.

I just what what does that feel like like to to to have been right and early and now you know what what is the feeling now? >> It it feels great but also you know the work is not done. We we love Chair Akkin in a speech said we're at the end of the beginning and we very much feel that at a deep level cuz our our beginning was eight years of pain right being right and being early and waiting for this adoption raising money at the right times acquiring businesses at the right times having the staying power to get to this point is validating it does feel great we'll all have a great time celebrating at the exchange today.

But you know we still have work to do. There's a lot of firms out there that are massive and they have deep pockets for lobbyists and government influence and trying things across multiple jurisdictions so I fully intend and and expect our team to still have their ear to the ground, to still move this industry forward. And if regulators are more agreeable and it's more of a tailwind versus a headwind type experience, then Securitize wants to be there moving this industry forward. So, I think we truly feel that we did just begin and this going public, you know, keeps our mission focused, but also gives us more um you know, war chest to to get through this next phase and and really get to that institutional or or retail adoption

at a deep level. >> Yeah. And you mentioned, you know, Paul Atkins and the work that, you know, the the SEC and the CFTC have done to advance the industry as a whole. You know, there was there was some speculation that we were going to get the Clarity Act on July 4th and it was going to be this, you know, very momentous occasion. Um happy 4th, by the way, uh from over the weekend. Now, it seems like we've got a month left before this Congress recess. Whether it goes through or not, I'm just curious from your perspective, what it would mean to get that sort of regulation. Maybe we get it in the next month, maybe we get it in the next couple of years, but what would the Clarity Act and market structure passing mean for the likes of tokenization companies and and Securitize?

>> We We generally feel that it would be a positive thing. I mean, we have never shied away from regulation and clear rules because if people like the the SEC has done a lot of really positive things for tokenization and digital assets by releasing Qs, and putting out different taxonomy for what different tokenized assets actually mean and represent to help educate investors. But having a real, you know, law in place that gives people the confidence that tokenization is not crypto. You know, it's a real bifurcation of this is a real technology that we are rule making around and we want to enable legitimate institutions to come play in the sandbox and and build things that are within the rules. We love that cuz that's how we've

been operating. And, you know, it's it's good for companies to to go through some of that pain to build out their compliance teams and to have actual real operating policies and procedures to adhere to some of those rules. So, we like it. And and like I said earlier, you know, for us, this is a massive market opportunity. It it won't just be securitized dominating 98% of the industry. What we want to see is more and more institutions, more and more issuers of their corporate or bonds or whatever it is, we want to see that being put on chain, cuz then the whole pie grows for all of us that that get a slice. And you know, I said it in the last time we spoke, but rising tide lifts all boats. We we truly feel that.

So, any kind of regulatory certainty for us over time is a good thing. >> Absolutely. And I think that's indicative of the industry as a whole. Uh Billy, last thing I got for you, because I it my ears kind of perked up when you said it just now, and I think the people who watch this show and the people who clip this show, they're going to take it and they're going to run with it. Tokenization is not crypto. I just want to give you an opportunity to maybe expand upon that. Just tell us a little bit more about what you mean, because I think that's going to get some people talking. >> Yeah, I mean, I can give you a real example. So, you know, when when FTX exploded, our our phones stopped ringing. We were talking to a lot of large asset managers that wanted to

tokenize funds. We had made a lot of progress. We had all the whiteboard sessions. We had a lot of products soft circled on let's go to market with these. And then FTX blew up, and our phones stopped ringing, because in inside all these asset managers and issuers, they still have a board to answer to. They can't be perceived as taking on risk. So, it very much at that time was the same. Using the technology that crypto has and what powers crypto was still tied to tokenization. And over the work that we've done over the past few years has gotten to this point that, you know, Bitcoin's had had a volatile and and, you know, tough period of time here, but that doesn't change the tokenization conversation. So, when I say it's not crypto, I mean, we finally

had a bifurcation that the price of Bitcoin does not dictate the use of tokenization for these large asset managers, and that was a huge moment to celebrate uh for us. >> It absolutely is a bifurcation. It's this decoupling. Um and some people have been looking forward to this. And and I think you guys were very well prepared for this decoupling. Uh some people were caught off sides, but ultimately I I do believe, and I think you'd agree, that this this is ultimately going to make our industry stronger. >> That's the plan.

>> We'll see. Billy, congratulations again, man. Thanks for spending some time with us and uh give that bell a good a good ring. Well, I'm going to hear hear from Florida. >> Yeah, you know, watch watch it live today. You'll see us up there with with uh smiles on our faces. So, thanks for having me again. >> Thank you, Billy. Catch you next time. >> Bye. >> There he is, Billy Miller from Securitize SECZ. I mean, can't can't get a bet much better ticker than that. Um these guys have been leading tokenization for a long, long time. Uh I mean, been in the game 10 years, leaders, partnership with BlackRock, pretty insane in terms of the scale that they've been been able to reach. Um when you think, you know, you got Vlad from Robinhood, you've got

Securitize, you've got JP Morgan, you've got BlackRock. These are the biggest names in finance. All of them are talking about tokenization, and all of them are talking about tokenizing RWAs. And so, these are the leaders of finance, not just crypto, not just tradfi, but finance is now uh being tokenized as a whole, and we're seeing the winners right before our eyes. Shout out New Type, blockchain, not crypto. Uh that was the vibe in 2019. I remember I was there, and it was like, blockchain, not Bitcoin. Then we had like, okay, smart contracts and DeFi, right? Now we're going to get that with RWAs. But again, you guys have been listening to

this show for a long time. You know that our thesis is, you know, it's sort of this evolution. Right now it very much is blockchain not crypto cuz Bitcoin is down, ETH is down, all these assets are down except for hype. Hype is at all-time highs. But ultimately, you have these blockchains that are laying the groundwork for the financial plumbing of the next financial system. As we move traditional assets, RWAs, these are non-speculative, very boring assets, but they're securities and they've commodities, and they've been around a long, long time.

And there's significant amounts of capital in these asset classes. They go on chain. Well, when they go on chain, what does that mean? It means they end up in the protocols like Aave and Morpho and Hyperliquid and Uniswap and Aerodrome. And they they move into the protocols that we know and love. And what happens? Aero Uni Morpho Aave all of these have these protocols have tokens. And as you move more assets into these protocols, you generate more activity, you generate more fees. That value, that those fees all end up accruing to the stakeholders or the token holders in those protocols. And

that is very much the thesis here as we move through this tokenization supercycle into what we believe is a protocol supercycle and an onslaught of new assets. And then that is the rising tide that lifts the boats. And the boats in this case are coins, and the rising tide is the tokenization supercycle. Guys, that is the thesis here on the show. We call it neo-finance thesis. Ring-a-ding-ding, that's the bell for the lightbulb moment everyone is going through. Um Sean 00, how is Peru? Guys, thanks for asking. Yeah, I saw Machu Picchu. I mean, this was an incredible experience.

I was in Peru for about 10 days. Um flew into Lima. Guys, some of the most affordable and best restaurants and hotels in the entire world. The culture and landscape in Peru is some of the most varied uh geography I've ever been to. You've got Lima, which is on the coast. You literally have this gigantic cliff drop-off into the Pacific Ocean. People are surfing out there every day. Then you move a little bit east and it's a desert. It is pure desert, right? They've got literally cactus cacti growing in the middle of the country.

You move a little bit further east inland and you get the Andes mountains, which is this tremendous mountain range, absolutely insane mountains, which were unreal. And you've got uh you move a little bit further east from there and you've got this cloud forest jungle at the western edge of the Amazon rainforest. And that is where Machu Picchu is located. And so you don't just go to Machu Picchu. You first fly into the coast, then you got to acclimate to the altitude, then you go up into the mountains, then you hike through the jungle to ultimately get to this this ancient civilization city that just appears as if out of nowhere as you go

through the mountains. It was pretty incredible. Um they've got uh actually, funny enough, their their currency is called sol or soles. And so I was transacting with sol soles while I was there, yeah. But I've been boom. And uh and that's what we were doing out there in Peru. So had an incredible time. Um I'm quite sore. I was horseback riding through the mountains. I was riding ATVs through the desert. Um ate some ceviche. And uh ultimately had a great, great time. Learned learned a ton, too. I mean, tremendous history uh while we were there. Learned about some of the the pre uh the ancient civilizations that led

into the Incan Empire. And then uh learned about the Incan king emperor who assimilated all of these civilizations into the Incan Empire and integrated them all. Um he would basically go in, conquer these guys. They said, "You're either with us or against us." If you were with them, cool, you're part of the empire. If not, you would get conquered. And then, guess what? You'd be part of the empire. So, that is uh that is a little bit on the Incan Empire and uh my trip to Peru. We've got some more >> W's in the shh hot. >> Yes, W's in the chat. Um pretty incredible. They like broke the bridge that lead leads over a river. That's how people got to Machu Picchu back in the day. They would hike from Cusco 6 days

to get into the city called Aguas Calientes that leads up to Machu Picchu. But when they heard the Spaniards were coming, uh they broke the bridge. They destroyed any evidence besides the actual civilization in the mountains. And so, the Spaniards came, but they didn't realize that the city was there because it's hidden in the mountains. Um and so, that's why it's still very well preserved today. Guys, it's hot here in Florida. It's 88°. Uh much warmer than it was in Peru. We're going to go to our weather segment. Um and we're going to keep riding with you guys.

Um Shine double zero. Man, I didn't see you a week ago when I was here. It's good to see you here now. Uh I did really appreciate the experience. It was incredible. Uh just the feeling of walking where people have walked 500 years ago. It's a really, really cool feeling. They also had a very different culture and religion. Uh learned a lot about that. Uh they didn't accept crypto for payments or any stable coins. Dang, guess we still haven't met adoption yet. Um I mean, guys, I can launch into my thesis around stable coins. Why don't I do just that? New type I'll just do this kind of the quick version here.

I think the idea around stable coins is that people don't change their consumer behavior. Like people are using tap to pay. If you use a card to pay, you're still going to use tap to pay. If you use cash, you're still going to use cash. The thing is, behind the scenes, it's going to be the banks that adopt stable coins. The people that are using like tap to pay and cards they don't really conceptualize when I tap what happens. They just tap. And so, they don't know or really care whether they're spending stable coins or fiat, because they're just tapping their card.

The banks are just showing them a number. So, to them, it's just I have this number of dollars or soles or rupees or whatever my currency is, and I use it and I tap, and that's what gets drawn out of my bank account. But, underneath that number, the bank can say, "Oh, I have I balance my assets and my liabilities with this many stable coins and this much fiat currency, this many treasury bonds, this much corporate or foreign debt." These banks have to remain solvent, and they can do that and earn different products, earn different revenue streams by doing that with stable coins or fiat currencies. And they can remain solvent, they can balance their assets and liabilities underneath the hood, and then just expose a number. Like when I log into my bank

I don't know whether my the dollars that they show me in my bank account, I don't know if they're five-year treasuries or 10-year treasuries or what the the, you know, the financial composition of this bank is. I just trust them, right? They're a globally significant bank, so I keep my money there. They show me a number, that's how many how much money I have. But, underneath the hood, they have a mix of treasury bills and foreign debt, corporate debt, maybe they have some securities or gold in a vault. They're not telling me all that. They're just showing me a number. I think stablecoins are going to get adopted into that mix and then it that's it. They can then transmit and settle with different banks. When I pay someone and I tap my

card, money goes from my bank to the merchant's bank. That transfer can be made in stablecoins, but they don't have to expose anything different to me. My consumer behavior when I tap my card doesn't have to change for stablecoins to get adopted. So, I think that's where we're headed. One day, look, I still believe that stablecoins are a stepping stone to the Bitcoin maximalist journey of a global reserve currency, but we're a long way away. Um new type, that's why I use your crypto.com debit card. I can change my currency and still use tap to pay as long as Visa is accepted. Exactly, you can choose which currency you want to spend.

And you can just keep all your assets and be all in. I think that's a tremendous scenario. I think also having a little bit of cash just so you can remain nimble in the market makes a ton of sense, but look, I was all in from before I went to Peru. Um why don't we kick it over to the markets? Guys, shout out to Denari for being our tokenized equity sponsor. You just heard from Billy Miller at Securitize talking about how they tokenize their equity from day one. Denari is doing exactly this. They give you tokenization on demand so that you can do more with your stocks, especially during this tokenization supercycle that is taking us from 30 billion to 400 trillion dollars in assets. Markets are extremely green today. It's extremely great to

see. Um powered by Zama, Bitcoin, ETH, Solana, Chainlink, Near. Guys, Hyperliquid is not on this. I think we're going to make that update very, very soon, but Hyperliquid is on its way to new all-time highs. I have a Near long that was underwater for a little while and it's looking great. I went long before I went to Peru. Things tanked. I added more margin. That's why you keep cash on hand. Then everything was chill, right? So I could enjoy my time at Machu Picchu. Then 2 days ago, I'm on my way back flying through Lima and the market rips. And I'm excited to be on the show with you guys today because markets are green.

Everything is a little bit more fun that way. Um new type, we will still have to tap to pay, but under the hood I will be blind to everything that's happening. Yes, definitely that is the thesis, but that is how we get stable coins from where they are today to trillions and trillions of market cap. Guys, Saylor sold, but the market looks fantastic. What I mean, it just kind of feels like a couple of days ago there was a trend shift and we went from not looking too good because there was this strategy Saylor shenanigans going on to just I mean did was it Ant Jim's black bull that marked the bottom? Was it something else that marked the bottom?

Um today Trump said "You dumb bastards, don't be short the market." I mean, when you have someone just speaking it directly into existence, why would you go against that? Pretty incredible to see. Um we've got more uh that we want to share with you guys, but I mean, look, the thesis remains the same. Obviously, you have some level of decoupling and bifurcation in the market right now. Um this is what it's It's important to recognize this because we're still not quite in the market conditions that are broadly bullish macro.

There's still like a 77% chance that Kevin Warsh does not cut interest rates. There is a chance that he hikes interest rates. I'm actually in the camp that he doesn't hike. Think after that first Fed meeting when he came out and he said we got to get inflation under control, that was peak hawkishness. Think he's very much in the camp of playing squash as we heard from David Schamus, uh the the founder and CEO of uh Hyperliquid Strategies. He's playing Kevin Warsh is playing squash. He's choosing not to do anything by design, and he is going to react to disinflation, which is happening both in the technological world as AI is getting us more productivity, and with the Iran

war violence and and turmoil subsiding. All of these are disinflationary effects, and that is going to be bring inflation down. He doesn't need to hike rates. Uh we saw job numbers come in a little bit under expectations, right? So, hiking rates just going to tighten those financial conditions even more. He doesn't want to do that, right? But also cutting rates is going to be a little bit provocative to the market, and I think, you know, that is sort of the the line that Kevin Warsh is is balancing. He did say he's going to reduce the the balance sheet of the Fed, and so the market's still pricing that in, but generally I think we're absorbing Kevin Warsh, we're absorbing Michael Saylor, and if Bitcoin can just continue to steadily make this march up, we're going to have

we're going to have the the I I don't want to call bottom. I don't want to, you know, say that the trend is reversing, but if you guys see the certainly feels as if there's this there's a new sort of energy in the air, a new type trade, if you will. Shoutout to new type trader in the chat with uh us rocking as always. Guys, we've got some tweets we're going to get into. Um so, I think, honestly, um Urban might have just He's might have had some some other things he's got to do today, which is all good cuz we got plenty that we want to share with you guys today.

Guys, before we get into our tweets, shoutout to NEAR. These guys are crushing. I have a NEAR long right now. I'm still just a bit underwater cuz unfortunately um I the things got a little exciting there for a little bit, but Near looks fantastic. Fundamentals are incredible. You guys know if you've been with us that as we continue to go forward in this new cycle, we're going to see more and more fundamental driven rallies. That is the sort of outperformance that we're looking for. Hyperliquid Near Aerodrome VVV these guys have real revenue. As when I was away, I saw that there was some token equity drama with VVV, so maybe we just move them into a different bucket for now. We need to further analyze that.

But these are the coins that I've had these secular bull markets, right? You haven't had like a general bull market. I think we can certainly say that, but you can say that there was a bull market in perps, right? With Hyperliquid and now Lighter. You can say that, you know, there was this bull market in AI, right? I think you can certainly say that with VVV. Um you can say that with Near. You can also say that there was a bull market in privacy, right? With Zcash and Near. And so you've had this secular bull market because all of the gains have been focused on a very small segment of the market. You haven't had these broad expansion uh you know, macro conditions, right? That have led to a broad swath bull market where everything goes up at once.

So I'm of the belief that the things that are going to outperform when ultimately we do reverse and everything goes up at once are the things that have performed the best up until now. And so because Hyperliquid, Near have had these secular bull markets, they are poised for the most success when we do reverse the trend, which could be taking shape right as we speak. Um Ethereum seems like it's reversed course. You guys heard from the new Ethereum Labs organization, which is focused on R&D and number go up technology. Now you have Vitalik uh 2 weeks ago Ethereum researchers met in Berlin to continue charting the protocol's long-term trajectory. We saw the straw map, right? Vitalik posted an updated straw map, which is effectively

the Ethereum roadmap. Now he's talking about lean Ethereum. So, if we scroll down a little bit, Vitalik's own high-level takeaways. Lean Ethereum is not a single one-shot upgrade. It is a collection of improvements that will come online to the Ethereum network over the course of three or four years. But, make no mistake. This is the largest upgrade to Ethereum since the merge. First, you had proof of work. Then, you had proof of stake. Now, you have lean Ethereum. This is Ethereum 3.0 directly from Vitalik's mouth, right?

What this means is that almost every major piece of the protocol will be replaced. Verification through recursive STARKs. Boy, am I excited about this because we have not had a good technological innovation in this industry for a long, long time. You've seen companies go public. You've seen these guys talk about finance. You've seen financial engineering up to the gills. But, you have not seen a deep reworking of the underlying technology in so long. And we spent years digging into the architecture of blockchains because we were prepared for this. And if you guys have been rocking with us for years, you know that we have done our homework and we've done the due diligence on understanding the implications of something like this. And

so, we've talked about STARKs. Verification through recursive STARKs means that this this protocol gets so much more efficient rather than direct re-execution. Because right now, Ethereum as it works is that you execute a transaction, you've got thousands and thousands of validators, broadcast that transaction, all of the validators need to re-execute that same transaction. That's no longer the case with lean Ethereum. You have one transaction. You prove it with one validator. They send a STARK, which is a ZK circuit, to the rest of the validators. All they have to do is verify it. Proving it is an order of magnitude, maybe 100 times more complex.

You send You do that one time, then you send a really, really efficient verification mechanism to the rest of the validators. This means that Ethereum gets faster, cheaper, better for the onslaught of RWAs that are getting tokenized. So, you have recursive STARKs that become enshrined as first-class core component of the protocol. This makes Ethereum more efficient. Then you have everything that is going to get replaced with quantum-vulnerable and quantum-safe alternatives. Everything that's vulnerable to quantum, you're going to rip it out and you're going to replace it with safe quantum alternatives. Then you're going to have consensus, which is going to get decoupled from chain and finality, one or two round finality, theoretically optimal security properties, simpler than today, and faster than today. Multidimensional gas.

I don't even know what that means, multidimensional gas, but I think it means that we're going to have all kinds of very, very robust gas markets, which is going to be extremely important as we move more financial activity back to the Ethereum L1. Then you have changes to the Ethereum state, not just the tree structure, but what types of state are available. I'm extremely excited about this because it means that we are going to have all sorts of different types of transactions that we can execute. We're going to have different execution zones. Traditionally, these are rollups, but again, we're moving more of this to the L1, which is also ultimately going to make the value accrual to ETH asset that much more exciting. You have changes to client architecture as well at the same time. You have simplification, cleaning

up, and future-proofing. All of this is done uh in a very minimizing uh a way that is going to minimize disruption to the existing application. Done this before with the merge. We're going to do it again. Um This is going to be implemented with Hagoda, uh which is probably Ethereum's last thematically pre-lean fork, right? So, you've got Glamsterdam, which is the next one, then you've got Hagoda, then you've got Istar, which we don't have a name for yet, but these go in alphabetical order, and I is when we're going to start to see a very, very lean Ethereum.

Okay, let's continue moving through formal verification as well to make Ethereum very robust against some of these AI attacks. Guys, Ethereum is upgrading, and I think Bitmain is actually in a position where they're continuing to buy, whereas Michael Saylor's continuing to sell. If Bitmain got the timing right, and they just bought all the way down to the bottom, dollar cost average, reduced their average cost, and they're able to just continue continuously buy and set this at entry as we Again, if that trend is reversing, that is going to be extremely, extremely exciting.

Ethereum's in a great spot. Shout out to Vitalik. We've been Ethereum bulls for a long time. Especially, you know, I've been just preaching that Ethereum is here to stay, guys. People have called for Ethereum to zero. I think they're silly. Ethereum's not going anywhere. Let's go. Next tweet. A good rule of thumb is when VCs have to make eight-minute videos and go on podcast rants to explain how the token equity split, VVV in this case, isn't actually a problem they aren't wildly benefiting from. It means it's a massive problem, and they're wildly benefiting from it.

Guys, we've had VCs come on the show and do exactly this. They argue something, they say they're not benefiting from it, but in turn, they are. But, there's a lot of virtue signaling that happens in this industry, and so it is what it is. That's what you get. Um Look, the token equity split is something that I think the market is just going to is just going to figure out. Um we could pontificate on what the right market cap structure, asset structure is for these token and and equities. The reality is that there's no perfect structure.

Um we are on-chain native here at the roll-up, and so we believe that tokens are the way to structure these things. Um but this is where we're at, right? And so um Oh man, Andy's in the chat saying he's semi-bearish ETH. Guys, he's obviously not uh not reading uh lean Ethereum from Vitalik. Um new type trader ETH is kind of like Cardano now, hot garbage. I mean, honestly guys, you guys are throwing away the the ETH. It's so cringe having all these names for upgrades. Got him so bearish ETH.

Wow. Guys, you're bearish ETH? I mean, look, I'm bullish hype. I'm bullish lighter. I'm bullish Aerodrome. I'm bullish hype, and I'm bullish Near. Right? These typically have been the alternative L1s. But man, and they have strong fundamentals. They're making a ton of money. But guys, I think I would just caution you to think about how systemically important Ethereum is to this industry. It's got the most stablecoins. It's got the most RWAs. Robinhood is an ETH L2.

They have a lighter on their chain. There's significant, significant partnerships. I mean, I just Guys, for your own benefit, I just don't want you guys to get caught off sides on ETH. I'm not going to be like this I don't want to be, you know, closed-minded to the idea that maybe ETH is good. And maybe ETH the asset isn't going to get the value accrual that we expect, but look, Shine double zero, you understand ETH is the light. I mean, it's just so important and crucial to the rest of this. Way bullish on Solana.

Man, new type. I mean, you when you just when you you know, the thing the thing that I I I to think about. I'm curious what you guys think about this in the chat. Let's go Let's go uh let's go solo for this because this is now no longer relevant to this tweet. Here's here's my take on on Solana Ethereum, which is still a relevant conversation even today. We've been talking about this for a long time. Solana is in a position where it's sort of it's sort of like this networked integrated approach. Ethereum's obviously this much more distributed approach. That's great.

Ethereum is building this World War III censorship-resistant distributed network. That's great. Solana is building this integrated thesis, everything geared around trading, and and really really fast and performing. That's great. These two things can both work, but when we think about outperformance, here's how I think about it. You've got capital position, right? You've got the the amount of capital that is just sitting on a particular chain. Maybe this is earning yield. Maybe this is getting loaned out. Maybe it's collateralized, but it's programmable, and it's all in this network.

And then you've got capital velocity. So you've got capital position, capital velocity. Capital velocity is how quickly you're turning over that capital. How quickly is it moving back and forth? How much velocity do you have with a particular amount of money moving between different people as you're trading it, all of these things. That's where Solana thrives. And I think right now you have two different value propositions. On Solana, you've got high capital velocity. Maybe they have let's just make up numbers. Let's say they have a trillion dollars on Solana, but you're going to turn that capital over.

You're going to move it between different wallets, and all these transactions are going to generate transaction fees, and you're going to do that maybe 10 times, right? In let's say a week, right? $10 trillion worth of financial activity on Solana. Via $1 trillion of assets turned over 10 times. That can very much do extremely well. And then on the other side, you've got Ethereum, which in my in my opinion, my from my perspective, may have 10 times the amount of assets, but moved 1/10 the amount of times.

Right? So, you've got let's say $10 trillion worth of capital on Ethereum that doesn't move around very much, and then you've got $1 trillion of capital on Solana that moves around a lot. Which one of these is going to be more beneficial for the ecosystem? Right? That is one of the questions that I think you have to you have to answer. But ultimately, which one of these is accruing more value to the token holders? When I look at Solana, again, look, I think it's going to do well, but they've almost got like this equity token split. And I don't know exactly the amount of details, how much value accrued, this and that, but you've got a lot of economic activity that's

happening on Solana. That's great. A lot of it is flowing to this to the Solana token holders. On Ethereum, this is all distributed, but I think you've got enough turnover where you can still just have the amount of capital that's on that chain, and you can generate a lot of economic activity from that from maybe it's just passive yield. Maybe it's real businesses, tokenized equities, stablecoins that are used on Ethereum. I think there's still a lot of value there as well. Guys, tell me what you think. Right or wrong here, right? Um Okay, way bullish on Solana, bearish ETH upgrade execution risk. Greg, I hear you on the upgrade execution risk. Honestly, that's real, but we've done this before. We've

done this with the merge. We do hard forks all the time, right? You got A, B, C, D, E, F, right? Now we're going to be doing Clampsterdam. I get it. They're funny names. Hyped and Lit make more revenue than ETH. That's very true. Hyperliquid and Lighter make more revenue than ETH. You know, they're sort of this like fugazi network economics model that Ethereum sort of takes part in. Solana kind of takes part in that as well. Hyperliquid and Lighter are structured more like real companies. They're less systemically important to the general financial system, but they generate a ton of fees and they pass that back to token holders. Ethereum is kind of like, "Look, you underpin the entire stablecoin industry.

That's got to be worth something, right?" But, it's a little [snorts] bit less direct like correlation between the asset and the value that it provides in underpinning that industry. Sol had another announcement today, but everything touches ETH. I agree. It just kind of feels just from doing this a long time, I've just found that everything sort of touches ETH. Does Bitcoin make revenue? Steven. This is a very succinct way of doing it. Um look, does Bitcoin make revenue? No. Does the market cap sustain itself? Yes.

OG Killa, left LFG hype. Daddy needs a new all-time high. We're literally seeing it happen. Bitcoin does not make revenue, right? And it still commands a very high market cap. Rob, ETH couldn't even make a new all-time high. Sure, ETH has more RWA, more stablecoin, but what did that do for ETH price? Nothing. That's part of what's wrong and I think finally Ethereum's realizing it. Don't know this for a fact, but the creation of ETH Labs, Bitmain, just seems like as these digital strategies strategies, these Bitmains, these treasury companies, they're taking supply off of the table.

It seems like these things are going to get extremely reflexive. Does gold make revenue? No. Right, these are the conversations that we've had. Look, revenue's important, don't get me wrong, but it depends on the structure of the company. Hyperliquid and Lighter, they're structured so that they make revenue and they pass that back to token holders. Ethereum you just if it's not valuable, everything built on top of it crumbles. And I think it's incent it the the the things that are built on top of it are incentivized to keep it alive and therefore they need it to be at a high market cap. Rob, by your logic that you believe Cloudflare should be more than more than any company, right? We can't invest in the internet itself. Eth is like the

internet. What is the market cap of Cloudflare? 87.39 billion dollars. It's a pretty big company, but obviously Amazon Netflix all of these companies, Facebook, are built on top of the internet and they're worth a lot more. They're worth trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars. And so It's a very good point. It's a very good point, New Type. Right? This is the fat app thesis, fat protocol thesis, right?

We've been talking about this for a long, long time. Okay, guys, I think we have our next guest that is going to be joining. We're setting him up in the back. We're going to go quickly with him. He has joined over 30 minutes late, Mr. Michael Turpin. Um but we are Okay, let's quickly go to our daily equity segment. We're going to run our daily equity segment so that we can keep you guys updated. Got this in Peru, pretty gnarly. They feel like movement is everything. Right? Just continuing to move through the market. Look, New Type, I hear you. Um revenue is important,

especially now. That's why I believe in Hyperliquid and Lighter and Aerodrome. These guys are making extremely extremely good business choices, producing tons of revenue, um doing extremely well. At the same time, right? You've got You can You can make all sorts of analogies, right? Cuz you look at Hyperliquid and Lighter, they're doing extremely well. I believe in them. They're making a ton of revenue. They're They're running great businesses. But then you look at Look at Shine double double O. Look, gold and Bitcoin make no revenue. They're a store of value. And so if the store of value thesis is correct, you could imagine a scenario where the applications on top of Ethereum, the stablecoin companies,

the lending protocols, the decentralized exchanges, they all treat Ethereum as a store of value because they're incentivized in its preservation. They need it to exist, and therefore they invest in its success. I could see that as well. That is the same thing that you have nation-states doing with gold, and you have uh sovereign investors doing with Bitcoin. Guys, we're going to kick it over to our daily equity segment. Again, this is the convergence of finance and digital assets. Neo finance is happening right before our eyes. Let's kick it over.

Daily equity presented by Denari. >> [music] >> The US stock market has never been more dominant. US stocks capitalization is up to a record 81 trillion dollars, now accounting for 48% of global market cap. Guys, this is if you look at like US dominance in financial markets globally. Uh like we have Bitcoin dominance at um hovering around 70% or so. Uh US stock market dominance is hovering around 50%. This exceeds the world's second largest stock market, China, at 17 trillion by 375%

greater than the second biggest. The US stock market is now twice as large as that of China, Japan, Hong Kong, and Taiwan combined. Pretty impressive dominance that we're seeing. It is also larger than the next 18 stock markets combined. Uh Donald Trump today, he said there's a couple of bastards that were short the market. He doesn't like when people are short the market. And so, that's what we're seeing.

We have the president of the United States saying, "Hey, like don't short the market." At the same time, you've got um the US just continuing its global run. So um this is what we're seeing happen in the equities markets. You've still got this AI like this is what's propping up the entire economy right now, just like the internet was doing it 20 years ago. Um And this is this is what we're seeing play out right right before our eyes. Uh Denarii's here and they're tokenizing a lot of these equities, which is very, very cool because as we get a global and and a US-led global stock market that is continuing to surge ahead, we do see how

Kevin O'Leary could potentially be like, you know, a really good Fed chair if he's able to get these things under control. If we get these things on chain and they end up, you know, just sort of adding to the global market capitalization of on-chain assets, we're in a very, very, very interesting position as on-chain inhabitants. Right? What do you guys think about about this? Um what do we see here when it comes to the stock market? Um what's worth more, gold or the stock market? Probably not a fair comparison.

But that is what we have uh that we're faced with. So, look, the US accounts for nearly half of the world's public stock market capitalization. There's the US. In fact, if you just take the top seven assets, the mag seven of the US, it's bigger than the next biggest stock market. I mean, this is the primary export of the US. It is our financial, uh, our financial institutions. Guys, pretty incredible dominance. Um, Trump is really taking the, uh, stock market into his own hands. Uh, he's almost calling this at every corner. He's now saying that they can put public stocks into Trump accounts for children. Uh, I think this is

actually a really good move. I think people are going to learn about financial literacy at a much younger age, and this is going to help people. Uh, a lot of debate about Trump. He's continuing to call out crypto. He got the US men's national team's red card taken away. That game is tonight against Belgium. So, there's a lot of very interesting components that are playing out here in the US with equities, with Trump, with Kevin Warsh. We're going to continue to see how these things play out. This has been the daily equity segment powered by Denari. Guys, they're bringing all of these equities on chain so you can do more with your stocks.

Remember, it's not just that we're going to tokenize these things to tokenize them. Tokenizing them unleashes new financial firepower, which is essentially making them programmatic, progra- programmable. Right? We're going to get programmable collateral. You have the power of smart contracts. You're going to have all of these things interplaying with one another, which is going to make the equities that much more powerful, which is very, very exciting. Uh, that's been the daily equity presented by Denari. Shout out to our daily equity sponsor.

We're going to continue moving right along. Uh, let's see. Another 5-year long merge. My God, Insto risk won't come until it's done and Lindy. Greg, I hear you, brother. We did it once, we can do it again. Ethereum is significant for this industry. The internet could exist without Cloudflare. Ethereum couldn't exist without ETH. This seems like I mean, look, if Ethereum continues to dominate in every category coming on chain, the ETH is the asset that sits closest to that value layer. I mean, what could they do to increase value accrual?

What could they do? Because it seems like we're getting into this same philosophy that we had in 2018, 2019, blockchain, not Bitcoin, right? Ethereum, not ETH, right? That's what we're faced with, yet this underpins all the biggest categories, right? So, look, I'm a believer in Bitcoin, but I'm a believer in ETH, but at the same time, right? I'm also a believer in real companies. And I think we have to zoom out of this bubble that we've always been in, and we have to think more broadly about what constitutes good companies. It's those with real revenue, real fundamentals, like Hyperliquid, like Near, like Lighter, like Aerodrome, Morpho. They have real partnerships, they're

expanding outside of the crypto-native bubble, and they're continuing to dominate in more and more financial use cases. This is what I think we can expect from the leaders of the next cycle. And remember, everyone has their eyes set on the next cycle. But I think, guys, this is really great conversation happening in the chat. If Ethereum continues to dominate every category coming on chain, ETH is the asset that sits closest to that value layer. Look, I want to continue to hear what you guys have to say about this, because this has been the thesis for a long time. Remember, ETH didn't make a new all-time high last cycle, and so it's extremely just compelling to think about what it could mean for this cycle, right? What is this going to mean?

Um at At the same time we have Afroman telling Ansem, "Send me some coins and I'll make a song and music video about the black bull that's on board Million Token." Okay. So, these are kind of like, you know, we had this Guys, if you've been around for bull markets and bear markets before, you know how this goes. You know that like in the depths of the bear, right? It's all bad, right? Saylor strategy is imploding, right? This is going to zero, right? We had calls for 30K, like significantly lower than last all-time high in Bitcoin.

That is what we had calls for a couple weeks ago. And then you kind of start to get like these flashes. You get like these secular bull markets, right? What like we had with privacy and AI and like these strong fundamentals, which I think are actually much stronger than we've ever ever had before. So, you have these very small segments of coins, like these narratives that like catch some wind. Tokens do well and then that's it, right? Cuz you don't have like this rallying effect, this wealth effect where you're pulling liquidity from multiple different sources. They're just one source, bam, gone, and then it's over, right? So, you have these flashes in the pan.

But now you kind of have and this is I got to give credit to Ansem here, right? He launched a or or started supporting his coin. So, that's what we're seeing play out right now. And what do we have when you start to have like these more like Hmm, I don't really know how this makes Like in the depths of the bear market, it was like, "How is this thing making money? You've got to have a strong discounted cash flow in order for me to underwrite, you know, aping a clip into this coin."

You had to have a strong value proposition. Now it's like, "Well, we got a runner. We got a runner on our hands and Afroman is talking about it. So, we're going to get some sort of, you know, network effect where we're pulling in net new buyers. And I don't really know what the thesis is, but look, it seems to be working, so I'm going to pile in. That is ultimately, you get more and more and more of that energy, and you end up with a trend reversal. So, I'm not saying it's happening yet, right? We still got to get out of the woods, but we're seeing we're seeing the beginnings.

We're seeing like the the pieces starting to come together. Bitcoin is cooperating, holding above 63. I think it could have fell apart there for a little while because you had strategy sell this morning, and now the thesis is like, well, here's the thesis on strategy because this was like the main topic before I went to Peru. It was like, if strategy sells, we're all doomed. And if strategy doesn't sell, then STRC is doomed, and strategy goes bankrupt, and then they have to sell anyway. And so, we're screwed no matter what. But it turns out, right?

They kind of did this buyback STRC initiative. They said, "Hey, we're not going to sell Bitcoin. We're just going to raise funds in order to, you know, bolster this credit program." Turns out they are going to sell a little bit of Bitcoin, but I think that little bit of a dump that we had this morning, that was the market pricing in like all the Bitcoin that they could potentially sell. They're not going to sell all of it, obviously not. They're able to raise more funds. They're going to shore up the credit fund, right? And back STRC. And so, now that they've got STRC under control, they sold a little bit of Bitcoin. They don't need to sell that much, right? And it's looking looking much much better.

And I think you had sort of this peak bearishness when people thought strategy was doomed, they were going to have to sell one way or the other. Turns out they were a little bit more responsible and manageable than they thought, right? So, they have this credit program. They sold a little bit of Bitcoin. They shored up the market. As TRC is recovering, you had a little bit of a dump this morning because they thought "Hey sold like 200 million dollars worth." They're going to have to Are Are they going to have to sell a lot more? No. They don't have to sell their entire stack. They don't have to get 50 years of runway to pay off this interest expense.

They can kind of just manage it here and there right? At the same time, you have these mul- multiple thesis. Remember the IPO overhang is still amongst us, but people are going to start to move out, right? And they're going to move into some of the things that have sort of become rather affordable or cheap relative to the rest of the market and relative to stocks and equities. Commodities are a different story, but that's generally what we're seeing in the midst of, you know, sort of a restructuring or regime shift at the Fed. And these are the things that I'm watching both on the macro scale, the equity scale, crypto scale.

Feels like these things are just sort of like here, there, right? But they're starting to come together. Chat, what do you say? Need Bitcoin to run to 70k. Brother, do we. ASAP Rocky. Sold my Canton last weekend, bought more Cava, Arrow, Morpheus. Good to have you back, Robbie. Freedom Guy. Thank you, man. Freedom Guy 1776, what a username. Hope you had a good 4th of July. And shout out buys their Arrow looks incredible. Um not sure what Cava is, to be to be honest with you. Uh I know Andy has been talking to you guys about a certain set of coins. Uh I want to comment on those because we are excited about them.

Hype, lit, Near, Zcash, Arrow, and Zama. Don't let me forget about Zama, guys. Really, really important in the privacy uh uh arena and great partnerships with T-Rex. As you think about the assets that are coming on chain, obviously those that are getting shielded, confidential is important part of this. Zcash also pretty fundamental here. Looks pretty good. Not getting an incredible pump, but I think it's doing quite well. Um I also, guys, I've been tracking, oh my goodness, Ansem's coin is up 32% today.

Shoutout to Ansem, man. >> Wow. >> Guy was able to get a runner to the top 100 and top 200 coins by market cap. Pretty incredible. Um Yeah, let's see. Do we have a second guest here today? I don't know, man. I don't know. Um Pretty pretty cool to see pretty cool to see. Guys, I'm just seeing what we got here. Uh let's see. Let's see. Let's see.

Freedom God, big game tonight. Yes, sir. Near too, looking good. Yeah, I've been a fan of Akash as well. Guys, remember this is all not financial advice, but uh Akash seems to be making money and they're in the AI arena, which is very cool to see. Um and so, just keep an eye for these things. Maple Finance has also had a little bit of a resurgence. I've been bag holding this one for a little while. Um but, this is again part of like, okay, if we have a tokenization super cycle, these assets make it on chain, they end up flowing into the protocols.

Well, which protocols, right? And then which tokens are in a position to capitalize on that upswing? Um I'm a big fan of Maple Finance as well. But again, coins that are doing real work doing well, these are the coins that I want to be in. Um Also, something that happened while I was gone, Trump made a ton of money from crypto. He says, "I'm very much for crypto. It's not a question or a personal thing because I let my kids do whatever the hell they do. I don't even talk to them about it. I'm not allowed to. I think I'm allowed to, but I don't bother. I make, as president, essentially 2 and 1/2 million for 4 years.

Okay. Um guys, lighter partnership with Robinhood seems massive. Why don't we just Why don't we just screen share for a little bit? Just vibe. Just tell me what you guys are thinking here in the chat. Let's get framed up. I'll tell you guys what I'm what I'm thinking.

We'll see what we got here. Ethene's Coinbase high-yield vault crossed 200 million in its first month. MSTR are selling Bitcoin to pay dividends from notes that it is issuing in order to buy more Bitcoin, which could be sold to pay dividends from notes that it is issuing in order to buy more Bitcoin, which could be sold to buy All right, let's let's kick it over. Let's get this on screen. We'll see what we're dealing with here. Pretty pretty incredible moves happening all across the board. See if we can get this framed up for you guys here.

All right, happy Monday to all the bulls out there. This is what I wanted to show you guys. Trump says couple of guys who went short, those poor bastards, I mean, they are in big trouble. They're being wiped out. Never liked short guys. Shout out to all my short kings. Don't go short in this market. >> Embarrassing. >> We can get this framed up for you guys a little bit better here. We're just going to vibe today. Market's green. Feels good to be back. Back from Machu Picchu. I'm telling you guys, there was some sacred Incan energy out there. I feel it in my bones.

Vibe with me guys in the chat, Waiting for this BS fake bear market to be over. We need clarity. Corrupt politicians and bankers suck. Got that right. Don't want any corruption. Remember Saylor got permission to sell up to what? 1.25 billion in Bitcoins. That means we still have 1 billion in potential selling pressure to watch Saylor out. New type, I hear you. I think that was part of what we saw this morning. We actually dumped from like 63 and a half, 64 down to like 60 or 61. And I think a lot of that was some preemptive selling.

Just sort of speculating as to what exactly what you're saying. People think that Saylor's going to have to sell a lot more. And so, they're selling in order to front run that. I think that is a lot of what's happening. But, remember he's got permission. But, Saylor can do whatever he want. He's probably going to sell that much, but it's going to be over time. At the same time, you have improving macro conditions. Shine 00, has to step out, guys. See you later bro. Uh waiting for this fake BS bear market to be over. Man, I I'm with you, man. Fake BS bear market.

Honestly, don't even need it. Don't even need this bear market. If you can just continue hitting some of these things, you're going to do just fine. We also heard how there's like these people that are stuck in crypto while equities are exploding. Sure, great. Love it, right? But, at the same time, you don't That's As soon as you leave, that's when it's going to rip. Michael Turpin, we'll see you next time, buddy. Are you building a helipad? Yes, for 50 years we've been landing helicopters on grass. The grass is wet, soggy.

They're building a helipad for the White House. Man, >> W's in there. >> He is just completely full of Trump today. Launching Trump accounts, good to see. Let's keep it going. Guys, big big game tonight. Big game tonight. Peru is not in the World Cup.

Shout out to Lorenzo. What have we got here on Kalshi, the rumored $40 billion valuation based on the public data, looks like Kalshi has been running at an annualized volume of $500 billion or more. If you assume an average take rate of around 1% per contract, which by the way, is an incredible incredible feat. 1% per contract, that's insane when it comes to exchanges, but prediction markets obfuscate some of that fees and oh, you have some pretty high relative fee share. Freedom Guys 1776, what's the craziest food you had on vacation? I ate alpaca.

It was so good. Alpaca was basically better than steak. It was tender. I had alpaca lomo saltado. It's a sauteed it, put it in this nice sauce, some peppers and onions. Oh my goodness, was the alpaca incredible. That was probably the best food that I had on vacation. The craziest food I had was guinea pig. That was a little weird, to be honest with you guys. Eating guinea pig was a little weird. >> Embarrassing. >> and gamey.

I had uh they like Yeah, I guinea pig was a little strange. Um what else? It's a VJ, which is fire. Uh Aero coming to mainnet, $1.20, $1.60, easy. Yes. Aerodrome is what we believe is one of the main proponents of uh the tokenization supercycle. Right? Because obviously we know that decentralized exchanges are very very deep uh, systemically important pieces of infrastructure to, uh, the infrastructure and the industry as a whole. And so, um, Aerodrome and Uniswap, uh, are just underpinning the entire decentralized

exchange ecosystem. You've got a little bit of like Near and Ten in there as well, but ultimately these things are doing incredible work. Uh, Aerodrome's coming to mainnet so you can understand how they're going to be taking quite a bit of market share. Uh, right now, not sure about you guys, but actually let me know in the chat. Do you guys use when you when you're making a swap, right? And and this is for all our our, you know, on-chain homies out there, right? Everyone, you know, might have a centralized exchange out there. It's good to, you know, spread your chips out, but for those when you're transacting on-chain, do you guys use aggregators? Like do you go in your Rabby wallet and you just make the swap right there? Your MetaMask wallet make the swap right there? Do you guys go to DeFi? Do you guys go to an

aggregator like 1inch or or, um, CowSwap even? Or do you guys go directly to the source where you want to swap like a Uniswap or an Aerodrome? Let me know in the chat. I'm curious, guys. If it is significantly more people that use aggregators rather than the direct decentralized exchanges, I think Aerodrome is in a position to really capitalize and take market share because if they have a more efficient pricing mechanism, the aggregators just route your trade and your order flow to whichever venue is going to give you the best price. If Aerodrome can come out to mainnet give you the best price, and all of a sudden they're going to get routed a ton of order flow, that is going to lead to a bunch of financial activity and a ton more

revenue, and we know that Aerodrome has some really, really great fundamentals in terms of the amount of value that they're sharing with token holders. Um, they were actually the ones who pioneered, uh, that chart that's been circulating, uh, where it shows value net value in and net value out. And so, if you look at that spread, that's effectively net value retained or retained earnings by token holders. Um Hyperliquid's doing great in that regard, right? Cuz they've got a lot of revenue. They do have some expenses with regards to tokens. Airdrop is also doing great.

Greg was ecstatic when Trump was sworn in. Then we got Trump coin and I said, "WTF is he doing? This will set us back years." Now, this new merge plan, I had a 20-year time horizon, now 28-plus 2028 time year time horizon. They say everything is just a difference of time horizons. So, Greg, I mean, it's good to have a long time horizon, you know? If I'm thinking 20 years, let's go solo. I just got to I just got to speculate real quick.

We're going to get back to screen share in a minute, but I just have to think. 20-year time horizon. And this is Shout out to Greg O'Rius for just getting kind of stimulating this thought path. 20 What is happening on a 20-year time horizon? Today's Monday, July 6th, 2:26 p.m. Eastern, 2026. 20-year time horizon gets us to about 2045, 20 Let's call it 2050.

What is happening in world in year 2050? If I'm thinking about what happens in year 2050, I think we have a significant population of humanoids. Humanoid robots are walking around. They're opening doors for us. They're taking They're delivering our food. They are our Uber drivers. We have autonomous cars. We have things [snorts] that are just done autonomously in the factories. You have probably already gone through. I mean, people are speculating that we're going to have tremendous job loss as a result of like AI humanoids, right? But 20 years from now, it almost seems like we would have

gone through the job loss and came out the other side. And so, what is on the other side of that? What is the infrastructure? What are the I think I think that if you're looking at 20-year time horizon, I think the mindset is what are the robots going to be buying? Right? Because And this is actually playing out in the market right now. The hyperscalers, right? Themselves, eh, like their token or or excuse me, their equity performance is sort of like it's kind of mid, right? It's like not really that exciting.

>> [snorts] >> But if you look at like memory stocks, chips, like the things that the hyperscalers are buying cuz they just I mean, remember the hyperscalers, Google, they raised a ton of capital in terms of these bond sales, Meta. Now, it's time for them to go deploy that capital, right? And so, rather than buying them in their debt, I'm looking at what the hyperscalers are buying. They're buying memory stocks, which are up a ton, right? But if we use a similar logic 20 years out, we know that these robots are going to just increase in population.

They're pumping them out in China, they're pumping out in the US, we're getting off the ground. We're going to have so many of these humanoid robots. Let's say, you know, and earlier we were talking about Bitcoin dominance, then we were talking about US stock market dominance relative to global market capitalization. Think about human dominance on a 25-year time horizon. Human dominance right now is what? 99.99% you know? You look out on 24-5-year time horizon, it's probably like it's probably not 50/50, but it's probably like 90/10 in terms of like the amount of humans to robots that we have on planet Earth.

And [snorts] if we look at what is controlling economic activity, you would probably look at robots who are going to be making some decisions when it comes to factories, maybe robots run offices, they run, you know, they're going to be buying gas, right? And then you look at agentic-enabled human commerce, right? So, right now humans make most of their own economic decisions, but you probably end up in a world where agents and LLMs are starting to orchestrate more of the economic activity on Earth, right? So, if you sum up the amount of robotic economic activity with agentic economic activity, you could be looking at something like not 90/10, but maybe 60/40, maybe 70/30, right?

That's 20 years from now. I think that's somewhat realistic, right? If you look at the amount of robots that are going to be that are going to exist, and then you look at the pace of AI, it it's going to accelerate significantly, and it's going to orchestrate a lot of our economic activity. And so, I'm thinking what are we going to be buying 20 years from now? What are the What are the agents and and the robots going to be buying? The agents might be buying it on behalf of us or telling us that this is what we should buy, and the robots might just be buying it themselves.

Hmm. Well, we're going to need to sustain these things. There's probably energy sources are always going to be important. There's going to be economic activity. I can also see how, you know, financially, you're going to have just people craving risk. People are going to want to gamble. Like they're going to want to because a lot of the other things are going to be taken out of the equation for them, they're going to want to like really play with their hormonal balances.

And so I can see maybe, you know, prediction markets are going to do extremely well. Privacy, right? As we allow more I mean every time you press yes, accept permissions, accept permissions, download a new app, do you allow it to access your contacts? Sure. Like privacy is going to just be increasingly more important. So I think some of these things are going to and and especially then as you start to embed more and more of these things, we're going to be tracking I mean I don't know about you guys, do you have sleep scores? Do you monitor your health rates? How important is like bio health to you guys, right? All of our data is going to be just spread amongst all of these machines, right? They're going to be sharing our data. In fact, they're

probably going to be buying and selling it amongst themselves in order to be informed and have context on our lives and sell it back to us, right? In the form of new products, right? But I think it's going to be important to take ownership of our own data. I think that is going to be one of the most important things, one of the most valuable things is the context around our own identity, right? Because that is what the agents need in order to suggest new products, in order to make money for their creators and their companies. And then we're also going to get local and open source AI, but you know, that's sort of sort of another thing, but again, you know, that can only operate with your data as well. Robots, same thing, they

need data, right? And so if I'm 20 years into the future, if I'm if it's 2050, I'm looking at who has the data, right? They're in control, they have the leverage. They are in a position where they are going to be doing most of the the selling cuz they've already bought it, right? And if I have data, right? Then I have a resource that other people are going to want. All of you have your data. And so what are the assets that are in a position to do extremely well? Well, that is that is the question. I think you got to look at privacy. I think NEAR fits into this mold extremely well. I could see robots actually communicating

and interoperating with one another in some shared database. And if you think, you know, what is a way in which we can orchestrate and transact our data if we cuz data is valuable, right? It has a monetary property to it. We're going to want to send it to one another. Call that a transaction, right? An exchange or loan or collateralize or commoditize our data. I believe this is going to take place on blockchain rails. And then you got to think, what blockchains are most suited for this data? Well, >> [snorts] >> hm You're going to need a blockchain at extremely high scale. You also have local and open-source AIs that could be

running on this data. Probably will be running on this data. Need access to it. And I think you're going to end up with something like, you know, a Venice, right? But you're going to want I think we're going to move away from like probabilistic AI and we're going to move more into deterministic AI. And I think once you do that, you can get to a place where like every time you ask a certain prompt, you can get a certain response. That is probably going to take place on a blockchain rails. Guys, tell me what you guys think here. Hit me up in the chat.

King's Clips, hyper liquid or nothing. New type 100% I use backpack wallet. Swap within the app. Okay, so new type using aggregator. Greg said, "Someone kick me in the nuts, please, to make me feel better." Greg, I'm sorry to hear that, man. Uh I think this bear I mean, this bear market's been rough on all of us, but uh save your nuts. You might want kids someday. Uh new type, not humanoid robots, but definitely purpose-built robots by 2050. Yeah, it's just I mean, you see what's coming out of like Boston Dynamics and you got China that's doing incredible things with robots. Yeah, I think you will get purpose-built robots. Uh like cars are an example of a purpose-built robot.

These are the things that are be controlling a ton. Depends on size. New types says, you've got to be bullish cow AI robots being built on AI rails. Yeah, I'm I mean, look, I do think that is what we're going to see a ton more of. Robotics just feels like it's the thing because it's in the world of atoms, but ultimately, these things are going to have software. So, I do think like how is a robot going to communicate with its you know, like we talk to each other because we have ears and eyes and a mouth. But like a robot doesn't necessarily like imagine two robots that are on the same Wi-Fi network. Like if we have a humanoid robot, why I've I've kind of anytime we have a robotics person on the show, I talk

about this. Like why do we build robots in the form of humans? Because it's the most familiar. But once you start thinking out like even just a few years, right? After you get the basic form, you start you know, oh, we'll give that robot a a third arm, right? Why limit it to two arms? Like accelerate evolution at a much faster pace so that you can see what happens as you innovate in this physical form. And so, you can give it an extra arm, give it a seventh toe, give it all kinds of things. Similarly, like when you come to like verbal exchanges with robots, like humans are speaking something and then hearing something and responding. If you have two robots in the same Wi-Fi network, they probably don't need to

speak audibly, right? In fact, they probably wouldn't cuz you wouldn't want to to the other robots or you know, maybe have your thing, your you know, people overhear you, right? So, you just have some encrypted channel, encrypted messaging, right? Put it on a blockchain. Put it on a private blockchain, right? And have robots talk to one another, right? And especially if you're doing that and you're exchanging something of value. Could be a message, could be a piece of data, like 25 year time horizon, guys.

Hard to think past 5 to 10 years cuz tech changes. Freedom Guy first bought Bitcoin in 2017, thought we would be rich by now. Yeah, I mean, buying in 2017 probably Man, if you bought like early early 2017, what was the the top in 2017? It was like seven It was like 20k, right? So, you could probably bought you probably could have bought like 3k. I remember Bitcoin in 2016 was like 250 bucks. But, a lot of people bought, I think, around like 2500 to like 3k in that in that 2017 range, which would mean even at these prices, you're looking at a 20x. And the thing is, like, if you're just buying

something to buy it, probably don't buy in size. Especially like 2017, that was 10 years ago. All of us were 10 years younger, right? So, like, buying in size and holding that long is difficult. Uh thought we'd be rich by now, but then they took control of Bitcoin and gave us COVID. Now, fake bear holding up clarity. Yeah. Freedom Guy, I hear you, brother. They they did give us COVID, didn't they? Still got people wearing masks out here. Imagine. Uh that's a little shout-out to our team there. Freedom Guy bought a small bag of Peak, also layer one for robotics. Yeah, if we're talking about robotics, guys, we had um

a Yuki. Nils from a came on the show with none other than Arthur Hayes. And uh was talking to us about robotics. It is happening. Uh but I mean it is super early. Super like tip of the spear stuff when it comes to robotics, robotics on chain. But man, I just like it e e and I mean just think about like say you have like uh American robot and a Chinese robot. Like there is some very sensitive information, very like contentious relationships that could be happening there. You're going to need a secure channel, probably confidentiality, probably want to shield

some of those messages. Zama, Near, Zcash. All right, guys. It's been fun rocking with you fellows, ladies and gentlemen. What do we What do we got here? All right. Guys, I mean markets are green. It's pretty incredible to see. Securitize is a public company. Uh Michael Turpin flaked on us, but that's okay.

Strategy selling Bitcoin. What else we got? Anything Anything else here? US men's national team. Robinhood launched a chain. Got to catch up. This morning I was a little I was kind of out there in the middle of the Peruvian rainforest or jungle or desert or what wherever I was and I was kind of catching up on the news and I was like, "Oh." Tempo launched a stablecoin backed by banks. Robinhood launched a chain. Oh, the biggest financial institutions in the world are coming on chain and they're tokenizing assets and they're all flowing into DeFi and they're all buying our bags. It's like, "Huh."

"Huh." Okay. Sure. That's where I'm going to leave you guys today. Um Much love, as always. It's uh it's been fun rocking with you guys. We're going to leave off here. Um Greg aggregators odds and cow swap. Yeah, I mean if most of you guys are are using aggregators, um I mean there's a new venue that's going to come into the and and they don't it's not like they need anyone to just go to a new website or whatever. No, everyone just continues using their same aggregators just like the >> banks.

Banks are going to allocate more order flow to stable coins. Aggregators are going to add They're going to they're going to allocate more order flow to new venues. Uh don't really have an opinion on Avax. This other treasury company got cooked. Shout out AJ. Thanks Robbie. Thanks Freedom Guy man. Couldn't do without you. Hope you had a good fourth. Guys, go USA tonight against Belgium. So what? We have a president that's able to remove red cards. >> We call it soccer. You guys call it football. >> Okay. Um much love. First show back from Machu Picchu.

Guys, if you get a chance to go to Machu Picchu, I highly encourage you to do it. Lots of fun. Appreciate everyone holding it down in my absence. Shout out to the team behind the scenes. A ton on the sound effects. Alex setting up our guests. Leo on the ones and twos. Miro and Megan on the kicks. Uh and Andy I think is in an airport somewhere. We're going to have him back tomorrow. Much love, guys. We will see you tomorrow. Keep pumping the market. >> [music] [music]

[music] >> Hey.