🚨LIVE: Saylor Finally Sells?! HYPE x PURR Higher After Weekend. What Comes Next? Stellar's CEO is in

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Heat. Heat. 17 floor. We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back.

>> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding to my library potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev Connect day one here from space. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say.

I'm bullish. >> He said it. He finally said it. So bullish is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, Heat. Roll up is headed to the top. If we're

not already at the top, we're going to the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. zoom out in aren't coming. They're

simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. >> Let's go, baby. Happy Monday, Rob. How was your weekend, man? >> It was great. It was great. Um, yeah. Having uh having fun in the new in the new digs. How was your weekend? was lit. Went to the uh went to Charlotte for an engagement party. Super fun. Hype was absolutely flying. Purr was pumping. We are live in the tokenization tower. The nest broadcasting live from the financial

capital of the world. Today is June 1st and we have a great show ahead. Let me tell you guys about Plume. Vest powered by Plume. Our friends building infrastructure the future of asset management. Tokenized real world assets. Wouldn't be here without the Plume team. But yeah, Rob had a good weekend, man. just uh a lot of lot of drinking. A lot of chart watching even though I shouldn't have been. It was exciting exciting weekend. Um >> drinking and chart watching sounds euphoric. >> I mean yeah I mean I mean hype was at like 74 yesterday. I was in the car ride back to Raleigh from Charlotte. I was just like wow. And honestly Purr was a little bit underwhelming today with the open. I mean it opened at 10.5. If you guys you guys are in my Telegram chat or on Twitter, I've been kind of talking

about Pearl a little bit and it was trading $12.50 uh pre-market. So, I mean that was like a 25% move from Friday's close. >> Where's uh >> now it's at 10.5. >> Where's that pre-market activity happening? Is it on Hyperlid during the weekend? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On Hyperlid during the weekend. Yeah. >> And so 12 something over the weekend, but uh opened. Is there price dislocation at the open uh between the the trading activity on hyperlquid? And so that that was something you know on Friday uh we had talked about the um >> the messaging and the and the the uh dialogue what the ICE New York Stock

Exchange president owner Jeff Spectre you know what he had to say about Hyperlid. He's calling it bigger than the NASDAQ. And one of the things that he was saying that he he was watching very intently was the SpaceX IPO and how there's a ton of activity happening on Hyperlquid around this IPO. And you know he's kind of looking and staying patient and seeing how the question was how relevant some of this trading activity is. He said it's either going to be highly relevant or highly irrelevant and the SpaceX IPO is going to determine that whether h how how consistent like that market activity is on the IPO launch versus you know is it if it's totally dislocated then you know the price discovery on Hyperlid is you know

very inconsistent with the real >> the real quote unquote real market and then it would be it would be much more irrelevant. In this case, it was um it was super accur like it was super accurate. It was just that Sailor sold his coins this morning. Kind of like threw a wrench in things, >> right? So, and then the war kind of came back, the blockade and whatever. >> We're going to get into that. Well, we have a great show today with the CEO of Stellar. Uh we are live from the tokenization tower. We got the markets and weather live from New York as per usual. Stellar CEO calls and we have a ton of news to go over. We're going to share the screen. We're going to, you know, go over a sailor. We're going to go over to that uh and more. Today's

topics, as always, presented by our friends at Treasure. Use code rollup10 at treasure.io to grab yourself your very first, second, or third hardware wallet today. Rob, that is the weather here. I bet it's warm and nice down there. >> It is. It's beautiful. Uh actually, >> that's the topics. >> That's the topics. We haven't quite gotten to the weather. It is though. It is. Uh it's beautiful. But before we get into the weather, why don't we talk to you guys about our partner at Frack? We are open, stable, and borderless. That is the future of digital money. Frack is pioneering this. It's a stable coin super cycle, and FRA is leading the way.

It is a nice 73 degrees and sunny here in New York. 6 miles an hour wind. Beautiful day. Beautiful spring vibes here as Hyperlquin is going to be the first to break to new alltime highs following this little week bounce from Bitcoin. As always, powered by relay.link. Use Relay.link for all your crosschain swaps and more. Ladies and gentlemen, it is beautiful springtime in New York. We did order an air conditioning unit for the studio. We'll see how that goes. Shout out to Alex. Hopefully uh hopefully get that all figured out.

>> Yeah. And shout out to uh our our our our guy Aon on the soundboard today. Discovered a couple new sounds. >> Guys out of school. >> Wow. >> Pers pumping. We're trying to buy a house in Sands Point this year. That's where uh our our our guy Sheamus lives. He's got a Great Gatsby house. So this is the area where Great Gatsby's like like on the lake there in Long Island. That's where part of the movie was filmed. And so, um, yeah, we just need Purr to get to 20 and I think we'll we'll be in S's point there. Ton, let me tell you guys about our next partner, Dinari, our tokenized equities partner, powering the future of tokenized US equities and bringing real world stocks onchain. To explore onchain access, visit dinari.com.

We had Sailor dump his coins today, Rob 32 Bitcoin. uh he dumped Bitcoin moved down about I don't know a couple percent three and a half percent as of now Ethereum down about a percent salon a percent and a half chain link not much and then near's green um and so it's just this this continued bifurcated market where you got these assets that are pushing to all-time highs you've got really strong moves across some and then you know Bitcoin and ETH and what people would consider the majors Salana just continue to underperform. And honestly, I think people are really really looking at this underperformance and being like,

why is this happening? >> You got to put Hyperlid in the category of majors now, right? And I >> Yeah. top 10. >> Yeah. And I I think uh you know, one of the things that people are surprised about, rightfully so, is the fact that you have Bitcoin and ETH kind of dwindling, really struggling to hold up. And then you have hype and you have near and these are kind of really doing quite well. Hyperlquid especially. And the reason being, well the people, the reason being people are surprised is because we've never seen a market where the majors are struggling and altcoins are flying. You know, typically what altcoins are doing, you know, the right conditions are, you know, Bitcoin, ETH kind of just holding their levels, right? Not sucking all the liquidity, but you know, kind of holding their

levels so that the rest of the coins can flourish and and and we can find some uncorrelated markets. >> I don't know. I think Sailor I mean, Sailor sold 30 Bitcoin. It was very very very small relative to their whole portfolio. But it does >> I think Micro Strategy is down >> like 5% on it. >> Okay. >> More. >> I mean >> yeah% >> it seems like the bigger macro news is that the the war continues >> um more aggressively than we were things were looking the end of last week. But again you have this fragmented you know bifurcated market. You have macro uh going in one direction Bitcoin and ETH following that direction. And then you have hyperlquid and you have a few choice other AI bottleneck trades crypto

AI teams tokens that are trading in the complete opposite direction. How sustainable is this? This is the question that I'm left with. I think everyone is left with is how long can we continue to have these coins continue in a positive direction with majors uh you know continuing to struggle >> or just you know how you know if majors do struggle more go lower how how do these things react? I mean, best case scenario here is that this is like the short-term bottom for Bitcoin and ETH and we get a bounce back up to like close to the high, you know, high7s. My gosh, I think some of these things would fly. Uh any opinion about Enthropic announcing their IPO? Uh we're going to talk about it a bit later. Uh but people are calling it the second plane to hit

the S&P Twin Towers. First one being the Open AI uh IPO. So, I think the general sentiment is that uh yeah, is that these things are going to be major liquidity sucks and that it's going to be we'll see if the market can actually handle it. I think that's kind of like the the general consensus, but we'll talk more about that on our new daily equity segment uh today. And shout out to Zama for powering our digital assets market as always. Uh they have a new confidential payments uh protocol coming out very soon this month. Um so check out zama.org.

We're going to roll into the news. We're going to roll into what's happening. But first, let me tell you about Near, guys. Our premier AI partner, the blockchain for AI. Visit near.ai to learn more about what they're doing with private inference powering a lot of Venice's protocol as well. All right, guys. So, first tweet that Arthur put out that isn't this one, uh, that I really, you know, vibed with this weekend was he took a screenshot of the top 10 and he was like, "Look guys, I mean, he said, here's what it was verbatim." He said, "Uh, are we dreaming big enough?"

Looking at this list of mostly dog coins, I think hype should at minimum overtake soul before this bull run is over. was, you know, Bitcoin, ETH, Tether BNB XRP USDC Soul Tron Doge, Hype, and then, you know, Hype did go on and and flip Doge. And so, you know, Arthur is pretty bullish on Hype. He's been calling for 150. And so, he puts out this tweet, Rob, Hunter Hype giveaway uh against Kyle Smani, trying to troll him. Extremely offensive, but witty at the same time. Photo plus text. So, I think we're going to have some fun here. If you scroll down into the comments section, uh I think you're going to see some uh some pretty funny memes of of of Kyle and Arthur. So, let's let's give this a scroll here. Uh

>> what do we got here? Kyle's only nonrug win. >> Okay, give that like a one out of 10. Not much effort. Nope. AI slop. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Kyle S. Kyle thinks Hyper Liquid is not a real Dex, but Kyle thinks also his best sex was when he was circumcised. >> Wow, that was that was pretty funny. >> Interesting. >> Keep it rolling. Keep it rolling. >> Calling Kyle a virgin. >> POV Kamani watching hype and Zcash. >> Flip Soul >> Flip Soul.

>> Zcash Zcash flipping soul is a new one. I haven't heard that one. Zcash currently. Where do we >> What is that at? >> Yeah, let's see. >> Let Let's keep a stroll in there. IO. These ones have been okay at best, I would say. Here we go. Kyle Smani, proud hater of hype, professional exit liquidity, three months of Copium, $38 million of oops, actual tweets. Hype is overvalued. Team is centralized. Pers are unsustainable. I'll eat my words. Liquidated P&L all time. Zcash at number 14 on the list. uh 9 billion marketer cap. So it is a >> this is some euphoric right here.

Keep scrolling down here, Leo. >> It's pretty much an 80% uh got it almost double gravity by its balls. Keep going, Leo. Oh my goodness. >> That's all we got. That's all we got. >> That's all we got. I give it the uh graphic one there. That one there. That's my winner. That's a funny tin hat of uh of Kyle some money crying. >> Tinfoil hat vibes for sure. >> Investor deck. How to lose $38 million 101. All right, let's let's keep it rolling. Um into this kind of Okay, so first of all, Austin has been a fantastic follow for AI and just being early to a lot of these trends. And so when I saw him tweeting about um Ant

Seed, I was like I was pretty curious. So Rob, I'm not sure if you've heard of Ant Seed. Um but basically Venice and um kind of DM kicked off this like onchain uh token production bull inference bull you know and so uh ant seed has surpassed two billion daily token consumptions for two straight days. If you scroll down a bit you'll see the chart and they're integrated into Venice AI through VV and DM tokens. And um basically there is a compute financialization thesis here. And so this is just the early innings of Ant Seed's success. And so I think it's

something that you guys should pay attention to. Um I'm going to get more info for you guys here now on ANC. But basically Ant Seed is like a open marketplace for AI inference. and um they stake a bunch of DM and then they get this uh compute and they're doing a lot of daily token consumption and so I don't think there's a token yet to buy. Um I don't not sure if there's much speculative things to happen quite yet, but this is this is something to pay attention to.

>> Yeah. So obviously um >> you know obviously Venice is uh responsible for the supply of these tokens but I think what you're getting at is that Anse is demanding a lot of these tokens. Um uh yeah like like same in the same sense that like users using Venice when you you know when you write a query or whatever and you get an answer you use a token or you produce a token >> you have an input token output token. >> Yeah. And so same thing. So ant seeds just getting a lot of traction right now in a similar way and it's still early. I just responded to Austin if there's a token available or plans here or basically how do we get you know how do we invest into this? Um but haven't really we'll we'll see what he says.

>> Got it. Okay. >> Yeah. So it's it's like a marketplace for AI inference. And you know, we saw what happened to Venice. And dude, I put out this tweet today that was like, bro, once you try Venice, it is hard to go back to any non private AI tool. Like, man, like you you know, I I I went on Venice and they don't save any your chats unless you explicitly want them to and then they only save them to your device. And if you click on the private model, you have there's no data being passed of what your conversation is to the model provider, right? Because it's running on Venice's platform with private inference and then just using the model itself. and and I don't know, it's pretty liberating to actually be

able to write to an LLM what you actually want to write to to an LLM without having to worry about uh this out, you know, this uh big company talking to the feds or ex, you know, losing your data. >> So, so I see ants seed, you're right, open market for AI inference, uh permissionless peer-to-peer verifiable information, verifiable reputation. Uh so you can use this as an endpoint for tools, frameworks, and autonomous agents essentially like an aggregator of these open source models from from what I understand. Um it does say that there's a token network utility dollar sign ants >> where >> ants will power Oh, but it's it's looks like maybe it's not a utility token for

open AI coordination. Ants is intended as a utility and coordination token for the ANC ecosystem. >> I don't see it though on Dexter or Coin Gecko. tokens. >> It's called ants NTS NTS like >> dude it's but just a bunch of meme coins. >> Okay, so maybe it's not live quite oh well 1 billion 1.04 billion hard cap no minting beyond emissions no admin mint function. >> Yeah. >> Huh. Okay. >> I'm not sure. I'm not sure. >> Yeah, it's uh it's got its own page. Oh to tokens restricted. I wonder if like we're conflicting tokens with like tokens, you know, like guys, like we're

talking about two separate things here, right? Like we're looking at this chart of Ant Seed's daily token consumption, which is like the amount of input and output tokens when you write to an LLM and then get a response back. But then we're also trying to figure out if Ant seed has a token or has plans to launch a token because it is not being talked about. And this is a really good-looking chart for usage and we saw what happened to Venice. >> It's on base. >> It's on base. >> Yeah. So >> everything's on base. All the AI stuff is on base. >> I have a token contract. >> Do you have a chart or a contract that I can put in a DEX trainer?

>> Yeah. Here, let me text you the uh the contract address. >> Damn. Radiant Capital is going to sunset operations. RIP. Yeah. Text me the uh >> Yeah. Where we at here? >> Contract. I'd like to see. >> Yeah, let's see it on deck screener. >> There you go. >> Yeah. Here we go. This is straight from the Anted website from the bio of their Twitter profile. >> I'm not getting it on on Dex trainer. >> Um, yeah. I mean, this is straight from ants.com. ants-token. >> All right. Well, we're going to see what Austin has to say back to us about ants.

We wanted to, you know, bring that in front of you guys. Let's keep it rolling into the next >> I think. There's one one last thing here. I think you can only farm it. Uh, which is maybe why there's no liquid market. Uh you it says transfers are restricted. Uh they have a DM program fee 10%. So you can you can farm it. >> So a is Austin farming. >> Um yeah, we're going to find out some more information here on the token, but I believe the token is live. You can earn the token, but you can't transfer the token. Ants. Cool.

Cool. Okay, let's keep it rolling, guys. Before we do, let me tell you about our lovely DeFi partner, Infinifi. Building DeFi infrastructure for simpler access to onchain yield, liquidity, and capital allocation to explore more efficient finances at infinifi.xyz. Robots are here and they are coming. Nvidia announces the first open humanoid robot reference design built for robotics research. Um, so this humanoid robot is Isaac Groot. Uh, it combines H2 hardware, has five finger hands, uh, >> the hands, notably the most difficult part of the human to engineer.

>> Yes, it it it walks, it has uh all different types of features and they're here. So, pretty cool. Um, there's um there's a new company, guys, in crypto that just launched their token uh that our our one of our buddies, Simon, told us about from last week. It's called X Machina and they're doing uh capital formation for robotics. >> Have you seen the movie Xmachina? >> I I maybe have. >> It is an insane movie. This guy falls in love with a robot. Absolutely.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Of course I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's nuts. Uh >> so this Xmachina company >> Machina. Yeah. >> Exmachina. they just tgeed uh couple days ago and it's at a $38 million valuation. They hold um Figure Appronic, 1X, Nura, etc. And they're basically doing like a robo strategy, pre pre onchain markets for preIPO robotics equity.

>> So I was a little bit hesitant. We are >> we are continuing to see >> like this is a new frontier you know we're we're continuing to see how these things are fitting together. Obviously you know we have the models and we we you know get this form of intelligence before it gets uh >> embodied you know into a physical structure but they are going to put models you know into the brain of these robots and then they're going to be extremely intelligent. They're going to have plenty of physical attributes and they're going to be doing real work. Um, you know, one of the things that we've said for years on this program has been uh that blockchains are the best form of human coordination. I think it's time to

rethink that. I think blockchains are the best form of coordination in general, humans or otherwise. And I do think that we're going to use blockchains to coordinate uh humanoid robots uh the LLM between them. And we're going to see this this is there these things are going to get really weird really fast and I think blockchains are going to be able to keep these things on track and help coordinate amongst them when it comes to payments comes to sovereignty comes to all the things that we're currently using uh you know these models for I think we're going to have to use them as authentication mechanisms you know the watermarking to provably verifiably uh utilize some of the inference and the

intelligence on these models as they get to to robots is just going to get in increasingly important. >> Let's play this video here. Um, so Michael Sailor sold Yes. New type. He did sell. We'll get into that in a second, >> bro. C3PO vibes. >> Oh yeah. >> Did you see the video of the uh human on the conveyor belt and the robot on the conveyor belt for 24 hours? >> Yeah. >> Or 10 hours. Wow. Okay. Well, that wasn't that all inspiring, but uh congrats, Nvidia.

>> The uh I think they the video was uh live for about 10 to 12 hours straight. They had a human competing against the robot and it was like this sorting uh challenge, right, where like the goods were coming down the conveyor belt and the human ended up winning. >> Yep. >> Which is pretty incredible. But this it was very, >> you know, he had to go on a lunch break and stuff, too. And it was very very close. >> Wow. >> Yeah, >> very very close. >> All right, let's keep it rolling into uh the next uh clip here from Crypto in America. Uh Robert Lesner, CEO of Superstate talking about the structural upgrades of tokenization new type again.

Yes, sailor did sell man. And so we're going to get into that in a few. Um but until then, let's show you guys crypto in America coate talking about tokenization again. This is one of the major big one of like one of my big four tokenization, per stable coins, vaults. Let's uh hear what what Robert has to say here. And we're going to hear from Robert here. Here we go. the end of the day, we're gonna hopefully get to a best of both worlds approach where we have this extremely deep liquidity in, you know, traditional order books, whether it's the NASDAQ and

the New York Stock Exchange, and we're also going to have like the 247, you know, global reach of tokenized securities. And they're going to, you know, honestly like seamlessly integrate with each other. And we're going to get to a world where like, you know, we have strong regulatory controls, we have deep liquidity, but we have programmability, we have 247 trading, we have, you know, more, you know, reach outside of the existing walls of just the NASDAQ and NA. And we have just like a stronger system. There's a lot of things that have to fall into place to get there.

You know, there's a lot of companies hard at work. There's a lot of, you know, you know, work being done by the SEC and by, you know, the Hill. But I think that's where we eventually get to. the end of the day, we're going to hopefully get to a pass. >> I mean, look, nothing new there, right? Deep liquidity, regulatory protections. Last week was really big for the onshoring of US pers. I was shocked to see that it was Koshi that was the first one. That was like kind of a surprise for us. Obviously, that was really, you know, really helpful for Hyperlid. It was at trading at like $63 and then now we're I mean, dude, we're we're literally up at 73 already. I mean, Bitcoin is has just barely bounced back from 71 or 70.5 to 715 and hype looks ready to go for another alltime high. I

mean, I I don't even know what's going on at this point here, guys. Um, but, uh, Superstate's doing a great work. Obviously, love them. Love their team, Rob. Don't have much to to kind of opine on here. Yeah, Superstates doing incredible. Uh, tokenization is huge. This tokenization super cycle. Every asset will be tokenized. Uh obviously we're seeing Hyperlid become one of the major beneficiaries of that right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So >> agreed. >> Yeah. We're just going to continue to see this flywheel. Uh and I think it's it's fun and uh it it's really important I think to think about who are the major benefactors as tokenization continues to become more and more ubiquitous.

>> Yeah. Uh PER up 9% today. Hype up a percent and a half. I mean, let's I mean, I can't We got Sheamus in the Tower next week, Rob. Next Thursday, it's going to be an electric episode. >> Let's get into next Thursday. We'll see. >> Yes. Yes, you'll be there. Um, let's get into the next one. Before we do, let me let me tell you about LeFi, our premier crosschain swap partner, bridging, routing across the chain economy, universal market access for digital assets. Visit lee.fi to learn more. And some more news from Jensen Wong and the Nvidia side launched its N1X processor.

Um 20 core GPU pro processor up to 128 gigs of unified memory. Uh let's look at the video here. You got to love the leather jacket Jensen Wong vibe. Let's hear what he has to say. A friendly reminder that this guy is literally holding up all of your AI bags and thus your crypto bags. This is the most amazing chip the world has ever built. This is the N1X that we built in partnership with MediaTek. I think I saw I saw Rick earlier. This is N1X. This is a beautiful chip.

>> Have audio. >> This is this is a a chip that frankly would take 33 years to build. And the reason for that is because >> 100% of Nvidia software stack runs here. Uh this is a >> you want to run uh digital biology, no problem. If you want to do seismic processing, no problem. You want astrophysics, no problem. Everything associated with CUDA, all the physics, all the biology, all the genomics, all the AI, no problem. All the computer graphics, no problem. Every single application NVIDIA has ever created. And every single application that Windows has ever run, Microsoft and Nvidia meticulously

optimized everything so that this computer literally runs everything the world has ever created. Plus, it now runs agents. An incredible computer. I'm so proud of it >> that like he's like this is a computer, Rob. like he's like holding up like like this. He's like, "This is a computer." You're like, "Pro, what?" >> Um I I do think it's incredible. I mean, obviously, this is probably the most uh performant GPU chip of all time. Uh coming into a world where Oh, absolutely. I mean, he he's able to shrink down, you know, these data

centers into a essentially a chip. Uh and then obviously you put these into a bunch of data centers and and you get you know thousands and thousands of these. this I think you know we're always like kind of second guessing oh do we need more compute when we end up with this you know some of these things that we're we're forecasting when it comes to agents confidential agents running LLMs locally open source models all of these become so much more practical once we end up with compute that is able to scale like right now we aren't able to have the same capabilities you mentioned you know uh Venice Venice saves the the context to your local machine when you choose to.

We don't have the scale or performance of locally ran chips to at the same level that we have in the cloud. And so it it makes you know complete sense if you want more performance, you want context, you have to send your data into the cloud gets processed in a data center with everyone else's data and then you're able to get this thing that builds this giant, you know, context window on you. I don't, you know, I want the giant context window on me, but I don't want that owned by another company in the cloud. I want that saved on my own computer, >> but my computer just isn't able to scale at that. With these new chips, I think we are able to scale, and we will get this new wave of open-source localized LLM and agentic usage, and that is going

to enable a lot more of the confidential and verifiable use cases for AI that we've seen come out as of late. >> Yeah, I agree. All right, let's keep it rolling into uh one of our partners, RiseX. Uh friends, friends friends of the show, longtime kind of uh investors and uh you know, work like just been helping them on their branding and launch and content. So, let's bring them up here. Um basically what they've done is they've launched uh this RiseX trading platform and Um, and Rob, take us away here into what

Rise X is is building a billion dollars of of volume since private beta opened. You remember when they as a blockchain uh kind of announced that they're just buying this perex and that's what they were going all in for. Clearly seems like it's working. Um it's you know the the L2 FTV, right? Or the L2 like excitement is has like felt like a translated into like the perex arena. like if you're a perex that's doing fees that's doing a lot of trading volume doing numbers there you're getting excited about that um how do you like what do you think about this >> look I mean they have hit a billion dollars in trading volume uh surpassed since the private beta opened and I

think it's relevant to mention the private beta only mentioned uh opened a month ago uh practically a month ago is when the these thing came out of open beta um you know I I think we're we're looking at volume here uh I I anticipate that there's going to be a lot more open interest. Right now it seems like they're turning over their open interest quite frequently. Um but ultimately this is the M&A season. We saw a lot of this play out. This is a great example. Rise X was acquired by Rise and and you know was rebranded so that now this all fit together and and now we're seeing this play out. I mean Pers is this giant category. We're going to continue to see this play out. Got regulatory approval in the US. We're going to start to see the per market become so much more

sophisticated, so much more mature. Hyperlid is of course leading this and we're going to continue to see >> Yeah. I mean, it gives them the reason to launch a token. You know what I mean? Like it gives them a actual an actual uh like like people want to farm it because they know that that that they're going to make money, right? They know that they're going to actually have uh a chance to get a good return on the token. Whereas, if it's just another L2 with just another blockchain, it it's almost it like people would just write it off completely. stuff. All right, guys. We're now we're going to get into our daily equity segment. This is a new segment that we're going be doing on the show every day. Um, it is in partnership with our friends at dinari. And basically what it is is we're going to

be talking about the equities markets, the stock market once a day, covering the best news or the best trade or the best opportunity. So, let's get into that here. We're going to play our little first intro video for you guys. For those of you guys who have been watching the show, this will be a new thing for you. So, uh, let us know what you think and we'll get into it today. >> All right, guys. Uh, Anthropic Rob, I mean, goes take us away.

>> Goes and goes public. Anthropic is filing for uh for IPO. This is massive. Uh, so SpaceX beat him to the punch. SpaceX announced and filed their uh their letter uh to the SEC about going uh live as well >> and anthropic >> and now anthropic. Uh first SpaceX reportedly uh starting a $75 billion raise, $ 1.75 trillion valuation. Anthropic, we don't quite know the details yet. Uh it's a confidential draft of an S1. There could be revisions here, but you got to imagine that this is going I mean you have SpaceX at 1.75 trillion from what we saw in the private market. Anthropic was pushing uh what was it 800 900 billion. And so with this public launch, you got to imagine that

they're going to launch uh this public at a billion plus. The latest funding round was at 965 billion. Uh the IPO is probably going to go live at about 1 trillion. Uh and so these are massive liquidity events. uh you had a absolutely inflammatory take about uh this being the second plane to fly into one of the these towers. >> Uh and so I think uh you know if we're if we're looking at this and you're thinking, hey, this is massive. You know, these things are probably finally coming out of the private market and going public. I think it's important to ask yourself like why is this why? And I'm curious to hear your take. Why are

these bearish these IPOs bearish events? >> Yeah. So, I'm going to answer that. I'm just going to give you guys a bit more information. So, there's a anthropic confidentially submitted draft registration statement form S1 to the SEC. Um, this gives them the option to go public after the SEC completes its review. So, you you know, imagine that that's going to take some time. Uh, the init the proposed IPO will depend on market conditions, other factors. uh the price has not been set. The number of shares that are that are going to be offered has also not been uh not been set. Obviously, they've done everything, you know, compliantly and all that. And so that's it. Um this is going to be in a very interesting moment for the SPV

rapper owners, Rob. We will see what happens here. What I think that people are worried about is that you have the three biggest IPOs in history. Markets at all-time highs. You got rates that may, you know, at at this point we might get higher rates this year. People are unsure about the rates. They're unsure about the war. They're unsure about the liquidity dynamics. And then you've got these three massive IPOs that you got to think the same people that are like speculating on Micron and SanDisk are going to sell some of those shares to buy into these, right? So, there's going to be some sort of like rotation of of capital into these large AI companies.

And that's I think why people are scared. Um, so whether it's gonna actually like cause a massive deleveraging or if it's just going to be more adding more fuel to the boom, we'll see. But that would be the bare thesis is that there's all these other assets that it pumps, you know, so much based on this AI bottleneck trade. And we're not sure if the market's going to be able to, you know, hold all of these, you know, what is it going to be four to five trillion dollars worth of IPOs in a span of a quarter or two. So that's the thesis.

>> Yeah. Um and so I mean effectively that that is what's happening here. Uh and we have effectively I mean if you total up SpaceX, Open AI and Anthropic >> you're looking at like four to five trillion >> four to five trillion dollars that represents like >> what is it 20 I mean that's like 20% of let's see that that implies okay um so I've got some I got some stats here. So uh in 2025 uh the entire IPO market was about 44 billion. Uh in if SpaceX raises 75 billion by itself, it's larger than the entire 45 44 billion raised by non-spack US IPOs in 2025. Obviously that's that's

the fundraising portion and then and then the market cap ultimately comes to market and and the investors are locked up. And I did talk to my friend at SpaceX and and you know they are locked. It's not like all of their shares, you know, inevitably become liquid as soon as they go public. Uh but you got to look at the float and so we don't know exactly how much float is going to go live with Anthropic and Open AI. Um if it is a 10% float, we're looking at $300 billion of stock. If we're looking at 15%, that's almost half a trillion dollars of stock that is just >> open on the market that investors must absorb. And so we have to think to ourselves um one the investors that are getting unlocks early they might be

looking for exit liquidity >> for sure >> and they they could dump you know lower than this IPO uh this IPO price point. The other the other mechanism here is that there's going to be investors that are going to absorb some of these shares. Meaning that if you have a public launch, there's going to be shares on the open market and there's going to be investors that are looking to buy up those shares and absorb that market cap onto their books. >> Of course, >> where does that come from? Where does that cash come from? Some of it's cash, but some of it means that they're going to sell other companies and they're going to raise cash to buy some of these oncoming shares >> or any other asset, whatever it is.

>> Exactly. And so, >> because I don't own any SpaceX or OpenAI or Anthropic, and I don't know if I need to. I don't know if I should, but man, I'm kind of curious. Well, this is where the market starts to balance out, right? Because if you know, you don't and and there's other people that don't, then you know, these shares are going to go onto the open market and then they're going to essentially drop until they find a fair market value in which you case someone is going to come in and buy those because they're they're at a value, you know, a fair market price. >> Yeah, >> they will that's still going to cost some money. They're going to have to come in with some cash. Where does that cash come from? It could come from them selling you know some of the other the

other indices or you know other other stocks in their portfolio which could co you know cause kind of a re rebalancing of portfolios as other you know prices come down and then they you know level into you know SpaceX anthropic you know to support those prices. >> Yeah. Yeah man. The daily equity should have been about uh hyperlquid strategies because we're up 10% back above $11 per gamma squeeze is coming. I think that's going to be tomorrow's daily equity segment. Guys, that is today's segment of daily equity powered by our friends at dinar. Guys, once again, our new daily equities and stock market focus segment live here on the rollup. We're going to keep expanding this. We're

starting with, you know, news, some topics, videos, and we're keep scaling this up, guys. Thanks for being a part of it. will be back with our news into our friend Simon right Simon is bullish on cards he is saying that cards is the next hyperlquid at of10 to 15 million or $50 million market cap so moon overlord there's probably value in something that makes money so it's doing buybacks at obviously smaller market cap than hyperlquid like what's the hyperlquid of $10 million or $50 million market caps says cards Simon is also a big believer in cards What is cards? It is a Pokemon and TCG collectibles application where they sell uh collectible cards on the

chain. And they're making a ton of money, Rob. They're making they're making an equivalent amount of money on like a market cap adjusted basis that that Hypo is doing. And they're doing a ton of buybacks as well. >> Um up 22% today, up 38% this week. Uh cards is flying. Um >> and it's a low market cap still. I think it's like 20 million. >> It is 60 million 60 million >> market cap. 450 million fully >> FTV. That's the only problem with it. That's guys, like if I like cards, but I it's hard like you just know that the float is it's like >> Yeah.

>> 90% vested still. >> Yeah. So obviously, I mean, you know, you got to anticipate when that is going to be coming to market. Um, so I was talking about cards with a friend of uh a friend of the show uh who's recently been digging very very deep into uh you know the the revenue producing coins here with fundamentals doing buybacks. Um and we were kind of discussing like you know this value equation when it comes to tokens, right? Effectively, you've got you've got these companies that are doing, you know, great in revenue, but then a lot of times they're turning around and they're they're, you know, emitting all these tokens and that's how they end up paying for all the revenue, right? Canton comes into that equation. There's other there's other, you know, teams that kind of fall into that. And then you've got teams

that are making a ton of revenue and they're actually passing it back to token holders. You know, Hyperlid, Aerodrome, Pump, Pump.f fun, all of these actually, you know, end up in that in that category. But then obviously you see Hyperlid separating from the camp of that category. And the question is why? And I think one of the reasons why is because of this concept of pre-commitments, right? Hyperlid has programmable buybacks. We know exactly how much they're going to buy back as a function of their revenue over time. It's literally in the code. It happens on the chain every single day. When it comes to pump fund, we don't know.

There's no commitment as to how many buybacks they do. They they say that they're going to do it. Do you take it at face value? At the same time, you got emissions, right? We know that these tokens are locked up. They say that they're going to be for this ecosystem fund. Are we supposed to just take the the founding team at face value and say, "Hey, you know, we we trust you. You're not going to use these tokens for anything else. You're not going to do unlocks." It's very difficult to know. And that's where I think we start to see a lot of uncorrelated assets and and the bifurcated markets even within the category of coins with revenue. We're looking for particularly the coins that have been very very honest and transparent with what they do with that revenue. That's what we're looking for.

If they're acrewing that value to the token, that is where you're going to start to see these coins separate from the pack. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean, the programmatic nature of the buybacks is like the important thing and that's why investors are, you know, excited about Hyperlid versus others. and Sky, you know, has has kind of struggled in terms of its valuation metrics compared to Hyperlid. And um part of that is because the lack of the programmable buybacks. And it's something that, you know, like when you're holding hype and you just know that there's going to be a ton a ton a ton of consistent buybacks, you know, every single hour. Like if we look at the T-W, it's insane.

>> Like it's absolutely insane. >> Tell us more about the T-W. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um I actually want to pull it up. I I think we have our first guest. Let me just pull it up real quick on the screen share. Uh and then we can get into our first guest here. Um but let me just show you guys what I'm looking at this on this site. Um basically >> this is from Hyperlid. >> This is from like a a community site. And so and so uh basically right now what what we're looking at Wow. I mean dude it's it's this site is now saying that we have $1.3 uh million dollars of TWOPS in the next hour, 15 million in the next 24 hours. But this is like dependent on um it's like dependent on like look if I'm coming to the platform and I just want to buy $10 million of

hype what I can just go and set a a T-W order on the platform >> on Hyperlid >> right and so it's like this is a combination of the buybacks and of the actual okay um just like people coming and buying >> and this is this is indicative of the resting orders in the order book >> correct yeah So, we'll we'll pull it up on screen here and you can see that we have uh a massive massive amount of of buybacks happening. And so, uh the the T-W basically is the simplest way of thinking like basically of what you're describing, Rob. It's like you you know that if you're holding this asset,

you're going to get a ton a ton of buybacks on it. >> It's a great example there. It's it's precommitted on chain. you know exactly what to expect. >> You don't have to trust them to the screen. Um and yeah, you can see the Well, yeah, exactly. Like it's like programmatically embedded into like the, you know, into the smart contract, you know, it's essentially like like just programmatically in there, >> right? >> And so >> let's go ahead and flip it. We see it ticking up. >> Yeah. >> Right here. >> So So So here you've got the one hour. So you can see that over the next hour you're you're you're gonna get this amount, right? And then you can see over the the next 24 hours >> 15 million over the next 24 hours.

>> Yeah, this is what you're going to get. >> You know, and you combine this with what we heard, I believe I believe it was Kaleo who came on it might have been someone else, but they had mentioned that Hyperlid because it hasn't paid for market makers. It it was also it could have been uh uh from our friends at kinetic you know they they are not listed in you know they don't they're not listed on Binance spot they're not listed on as many centralized exchanges it's frankly not as liquid as previous coins have been at this market cap and the re what I mean we know what happens when you have a low liquidity uh and you have a T-wap happening buying pressure without a lot of liquidity at that point this is what you end up with is you know some some volatility to the upside, shall we say?

And so, and so you're saying that the T-W is a combination of people just sending T-Ws, maybe that's ETF buyers and it's buybacks and and we're seeing this uh this is data taken from the Hyperlid uh order book and compiled in a Hyperlid community site here. >> Yeah, this is the community site and then just to come to the uh the the DAT side of things, the ABNAV right now for PER is this 1.3 level. Um, and I think that this is still pretty cheap. Like I think that we can get this thing hyped.

Hype is in a full bull market. Super exciting. People are stoked. I think this thing could trade 1.7x. So, as you can see here, since December 3rd, 2025 um per up 185%, hype up 109%. It's absolutely just dominating. cash deployed today mill >> uh since December 3rd. Dude, their average cost is $25. >> Yeah. >> Incredible. >> Gosh. >> Oh my gosh. Like they're >> Wow.

>> Like they they have 160 million of dry powder. They're they're at a 1.3x MNAV. I think this thing could easily easily easily get to 1.7 1.8x 8x MNAV at like its peak. If we get hyped to 100, that means that this thing could trade like at least a double from here. >> Show the site for us. Where can people find this? >> Yeah, this is hl.eco is the is the site. >> Very nice. >> Probably should rotate token relation platform from blockworks for y'all's rotations the websites to the stream.

Yeah, good idea. We have Blockworks uh we have their uh like we have a subscription for it. We can do that starting tomorrow for sure. Anyway, guys, we're going to get back into screen, straight, back into hype, back into some of the more data. But we've got Stellar Foundation CEO, uh, Danell, uh, she is going to be joining us to talk about her, uh, recent partnership with the DTCC and what that means. We had, um, a fellow colleague of hers on in Bermuda Rub and looking forward to chatting with Denell about, uh, what this means. Rob, you had a spicy take actually about this uh that pissed some people off in the Ripple and Stellar community. We got told that we were the

fruit rollup kids, that we were dumb and that we had no idea what we were talking about in the comments. So, I'm going to just let you know that I'm going to throw you under the bus here, and that's where we're going to start. So, I hope you're ready for that one. >> I appreciate that, buddy. Couldn't couldn't do it without you. >> Dell, welcome to the show, man. Or >> it's great to be here. Oh my gosh. I can't >> start on the spicy side. >> I can't hold it in. Yeah. So, we covered the news yes or last week, Dell, with the DTCC. Obviously, they've been very pro blockchain, pro digital assets, um 247 trading, settlement times being reduced, faster, cheaper, you know, the whole nine yards. And, you know, Robbie

basically said like, okay, this is great, but what's going to stop them from doing this with any any other chain? Stellar is just one in the line. You know, I I don't really buy into this. Um, you know, not that exciting to me. So, I'll I'll I'll I'll defend myself a little bit and say, you know, obviously there was a big announcement with the DTCC saying that they have this program going live in the summer. Uh, I think just in a couple months they were working with 50 plus teams to establish some best practices. And so I'm curious how the partnership with uh Stellar and the DTCC separates itself from the broad partnership between the DTCC and you know these 50 plus participants. Also, welcome to the show and it's a pleasure

to have you here. >> Well, thank you. It's so great to be here and I actually love that we're starting there because I think that that's a place that maybe some folks have gotten to and I I'm I'm I'm happy that you got some grief over it. But the fact of the matter is it's all based on the technology, right? And Stellar was built for this from day one. And a lot of the folks at DTCC, especially in the digital assets group, have been working with Stellar since I've been here. So since 2018, 2019, they've been doing a lot of work to help to build the protocol to the level that it needed to get to for these kinds of institutions to be able to build on it and have the clawback functionality, the freeze functionality, all of those uh necessary components from a a compliance

standpoint built in at the core. So you do not have to build a smart contract and you do not have to do this if you don't want to. You can, but you don't have to because all of these things in addition to privacy are built in at the core layer. So it will be the that's an open public network which first of all is pretty amazing that DTCC is picking an open public network like Stellar and there's a lot of good reasons behind that. But it's all based on the technology. Sure, there are other blockchains. There's no question that there's going to be some. They have quadrillions of dollars of assets. Uh but those assets are going to the institutions that are going to pick to issue are going to pick based on the tech stack and our tech stack has been proven. We have been building on um for

institutions since day one. Franklin Templeton built the first money market fund on Stellar and started that in 2019. They did that without coming to us. They did that by picking the tech stack for the value of the tech stack. So some of these folks that actually are at uh DTCC are the ones that helped us to get there. That's the beauty of open public networks, by the way. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think a lot of people were like thrown off guard, not by the announcement or just by like how like a lot of this this this part of the space has evolved, right? Like Instellar's done an incredible job of like very firmly establishing this institutional front-facing position and like building the technology in that way. I think you know I think Avalanche has done a pretty good job and I think

there's other blockchains that haven't done as good of a job to like be prepared for a moment like this and I think you know you you kind of started off saying that right like it is about the technology it is about what that you know what that means they currently custody I think over a hundred trillion dollars of assets um they're going to do this kind of tokenized DTCC assets as well I think that's coming out early next year could you just give us a sense of like behind the announcement behind behind the PR behind the excitement like what does this actually mean for Stellar for the DTCC? What are like the nuts and bolts of what is trying to be accomplished here and why uh the DTCC chose Stellar to do that? Well, I think that the most important thing is I think

native issuance of assets on chain and using books and records on chain is crucial because I think that that is the step that really benefits and that's the reason why Franklin Templeton by the way did it way back when is they were actually trying to move their books and records on chain because it just makes so much sense to eliminate the you know 10 databases that you have to use to be able to make something happen to have it on one solid books and records. So when you think about the the standpoint of having native issuance of these assets really benefits not just the asset issuer but also ultimately the asset holder because then the fund itself is going to benefit from operational efficiency. So costs are going to be uh pushed back and and the fund is going to benefit from that because those costs

are not going to be charged to the fund. So there's a lot of really good opportunities from that standpoint. And DTC has hundreds of participants. And so when we think about like how this is going to play, the first wave of the name participants, they're going to opt into the tokenization service. When you think about the next thing, it's you got to watch for these aren't going to be pilots. This is going to be in production. I mean, they're launching their test net in July. So this will be in production for us. And then you have to watch for the big custodians and the prime brokers and the buy side platforms that already have stable coins or tokenization mandates. And then they're going to demand that they put them on a chain that makes sense for them. And an open public network makes a ton of sense

for lots of reasons about in in constantly benefiting from all of the participation of folks all over the world to make the network better. And then you also have these types of we have the compliance functionality built into the core and it makes it so that it's such a great piece for these regulated securities to be put on chain in that kind of way. >> Yeah. Could could you describe a bit more about you know obviously the DTC is working towards this tokenization is a big priority for you know the financial industry as a whole um there's a lot of proven track records out there you mentioned Franklin Templeton on stellar you know se several of these have been in you know sort of this testing phase for quite a long time when you when you

talk about you know the the process of choosing a chain at what level does that occur is it you know the equity issuer themselves at the company level is it the DTC that is going to choose a home for all of their assets right the 100red trillion plus at at you know how much how many different decision makers are there when it comes to choosing a chain for these equities >> well I think that so I I'll just say for example in the Franklin Templeton situation they actually chose us without us even talking to them right they came and they saw the technology they saw how it could benefit them from their books and records standpoint that is the beautiful way that that open source technology can work and that's the way frankly that it should work uh because

we didn't have to sell anything to them. We went to them after and said we're so happy that you're building on us. The same thing is true here. You're going to have asset issuers who are going to have an opinion about where they want their assets to be put whether they have those relationships or they've spent time looking at the technology and then you're going to have asset issuers who come and tell us where should we best be placed and that's going to be DTC's job to help them to figure out what makes the most sense for them. Privacy is going to be a huge issue. It already is. Institutional privacy is one of the things that we are running towards because we think it's the most important thing to be able to to really uh and we've already gotten a lot of building blocks in place. And the way that we

think about privacy is the same way we think about compliance where you build open at the base layer, transparent at the base layer, and you let everybody do be composable for what they need. Those are the kinds of things that are going to help to determine which blockchains are chosen for institutions, for asset issuers. So there's decision makers in several different places, but it's going to ultimately be the tech stack. >> And I I want to push on this for just a moment because, you know, we've seen this play out in several industries, including, you know, the DeFi industry, blockchain, finance as a whole. There there's power laws as these things begin to get more and more accepted in into this industry. Liquidity begets liquidity, right? That that's sort of the nature of the game. No one wants to be tokenized on an island, right? And so

as more of these chains are chosen, it would seem that, you know, there's a first mover advantage, there's a liquidity advantage, and those with some early traction are going to ultimately win a lot of market share as this continues to progress. How how do you ensure that Stellar is part of this? In addition just, you know, just being the tech stack, do you think that there's now a precedent for equity issuers to accept some of the, you know, the tables being set as they say, and and you're making sure that, you know, you have a seat at the table. How do you ensure that um, you know, this continues to proliferate and do you think that this power law will play out such that there is only one or very few chains that have the line share of these assets?

>> Yeah, so just a few things on this. When I look at what's happened on Stellar, even just in the last five months, we had a billion dollars of RWA on Stellar in the end of December, we now have three billion as of today. That's a huge growth vector. So the tech stack actually it starts at tech and then it starts at you have to have distribution that the entities have to think at. It's also partnership and how you partner with them. All of those things are going to come into play to matter. Now, I think Stellar has done I think we've done an awesome job to be able to demonstrate that we are here for institutions. We're going to continue to build for institutions, focusing on that privacy layer, focusing on the scalability layer. You have to have all that. Even if you got it in the early

days and you don't keep up the pace, you're not going to keep it. So, you have to constantly have that momentum on your side to see that you can't I mean, the truth of the matter is I'm terrible at celebrating these kinds of events in the moment because I'm thinking about the next five things that we need to do to be able to maintain it. And then to get to the second part of your question, I would love to tell you that it is all going to be on stellar and that is the way that the world is going to go. That's just not realistic, right? Like there's going to be multi-chain a multi-chain world out there. And the beauty of that is that it makes us all better when there are other chains that are building things and competing to to have this kind of traction. You get

better as a chain because you need to compete against that. I do not believe that there is a a onechain world. I've never believed that. I think interoperability is absolutely crucial. I think being able to learn from and improve because of what's happening out there is also crucial. >> Yeah, we're we're starting to see this play out a little bit, right? And so I'm just pulling up, you know, our friends at RW8XYZ. Great data over there and and yeah, they've got, you know, Stellar here at $2.8 billion just, you know, you know, just just at that $3 billion uh mark that you mentioned for RWAS. Um and that is currently >> they're just a little bit behind, by the way, because that's how it works with them. But yeah, go ahead.

>> Yeah, of course. Of course, of course. And and so you guys are firmly in the running for, you know, one of the top spots as it as it comes to RWAs. You know, other ones that are up here, of course, Ethereum, you know, has has quite a bit of RWA also open public as you mentioned, but then you've got the Canton and the Providence, right now. You know, they've obviously got their model. It it certainly works for them. I And the question that I'm getting to here is, you know, obviously Providence is this figure chain, right? uh they've been able to become like the home of the heliloc, right? That is like the figure product. And so it seems as if we're we're starting to, you know, we're getting this multi-chain world and these chains are becoming specialized for particular use cases. So we have a

heliloc chain. Maybe becomes the repo chain. Two-part question. You know, if do you agree with this this this view of the world? Do you think we're going to continue to evolve on this trajectory where we sort of get these specialized chains and then those are able to interop with one another? That's question one. Question two is in if you do see it that way, what is Stellar's specialty? What what do you see as Stellar is the home of XYZ RWA? >> Well, I think maybe we should just look at what's actually happening for for example with Providence. Yes, they've like the helocks are there, but Mike wants to be able to take a lot of what they built there and to move it to other chains. he brought YLDDS on to Stellar.

That's something that's like he's very forward thinking about how these chains operate. So even if some of the uh the the folks that are putting them the money into these funds are on that chain, they're going to move that over and make it so that it works elsewhere. I don't think specialty chains are going to I don't think we're going to be in a world where we have uh specialty chains that can capture everything. That's why Stellar is so great is because Stellar can actually be the what we have done from day one is built for payments and asset issuance. Asset issuance is key and you need to have asset issuance be a part of anything if you want to get to everyday financial services. And so the specialty that I think we've built and the moat that we've built is the fact that not only from a payment standpoint

have we built this on andoff ramp so that we have 480,000 on andoff ramps plus a bunch of local on andoff ramps to be able to get in and out of crypto. We've also built this idea that tokenization at its core is what Stellar does exceptionally well and you have all of the components that you need to have for that. So, I think these real world assets on Stellar, not only will they have a home, but they'll also have an ability to to shape what what happens to those assets after so that you can actually use them in your everyday financial services. And that's a crucial part about what this looks like. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, we agree. We are uh firmly in the era of like, all right, we're tokenizing a lot of these assets, a lot of these different products. Now, it's very much into like the then what question, right? And I feel like that's like the next very interesting uh era where of like you know using these assets as collateral doing you know different strategies involves different uh strategies in in DeFi making them very liquid indexes very liquid on per it's just like that whole next kind of transition is happening and and D know you know you mentioned that you weren't that excited about this news or perhaps that you find it hard to get excited because you're just very focused on what's next and I think I think we've kind of established the position of Stellar here in in in last you know 10

15 minutes very clear very clear vision very clear like understanding of what's important and having built the technology to support this these institutional flows I think like the biggest question that people are going to want to know is okay you have institutional flows great a great a great um you know a relationship with DTCC you have obviously this tokenization kind of growth onchain billions of dollars you know what what does this mean for me as a token holder as somebody who wants to be a recipient of this growth of these flows like how do we think about XLM acrewing value from institutional flows we've heard a lot of these headlines but the price has not really reflected that over the last I don't know 6 months 3 months one month

I'm not asking for a prediction I'm not asking for you know tell us what's going to happen you know not that but how do you think about transforming this institutional flow into the XLM asset and what that means as we're very firmly in this era of kind of like token holders are first class first class citizens and and you know they want to be treated as such. >> Yeah. So first I just want to say I am so excited about the news. What I said is I have a hard time celebrating in that moment because I just go okay I need to be able to maintain this momentum for everyone out there. So I'm so excited about it. This is like a really really big deal not just for Stellar but I think just for open public networks generally because it is like

crucial to be able to not have permission chains win this because then we end up with the same exact traditional financial infrastructure that we have that doesn't grow, doesn't change, doesn't develop, doesn't move forward. So on that piece of it, the one thing that I would say to XLM holders is that because I know I see a lot of this stuff out there um when folks talk about the fact that you know they're not using XLM. Every single gosh darn transaction on Stellar uses XLM. And so the more transactions and the more utility that is what you want. You want those assets to be able to be leveraged. You want this volume to continue. We need distribution. We need constant volume on the network. That is how XLM becomes a valuable commodity from that standpoint.

I also will say that there's a lot of misinformation out there where folks talk about how like the foundation feeds itself with the fees. Well, first of all, our fees are tiny because it's 1/100,000 of a penny for every transaction, but those fees don't go to the foundation. So, if you think about like what that means is that they're they're locked. They're like burned after every transaction. So, that creates more opportunity for the token holders to see the value acrewing to them. Uh so I think that it is um it is a misnomer for people to talk about the fact that all this stuff that happens on chain that is what I have been focused on since day one since I started this role in seven years ago my focus has been utility is the only thing that demonstrates mainstream activity and utility matters not just to me from the

standpoint of growing this ecosystem it matters to the token holders too. >> Yeah. So I'm glad Andy asked this question. I I also had it kind of, you know, circulating in my mind because, you know, we're hearing a lot of the same rhetoric that we heard in 2018, 2019. Back then it was blockchain, not Bitcoin. >> Yeah. >> Now, and we just had Joseph Shalom, you know, co-founder Sharplink and and and big big Ethereum guy, you know, we had him on and uh we're kind of walking through the mechanics and recently the rhetoric has been uh blockchain Ethereum in the ETH community, but not ETH, right? And so generally it feels like >> or like tokenization tokenization >> but not these assets.

>> Exactly. And not the assets and and honestly the the the utility and the mechanism sounds very very similar. You know tokenize all the assets get a lot of activity happening on the chain. Use the token as the gas token or the fee token on the chain. If we get a a s significant sufficient amount of of transactions then we'll generate enough activity and that'll transform into the token. But we're just not not seeing it. And it feels like there's a fundamental disconnect here because as an engineer, developer, the labs companies are all trying to scale the chains, trying to make transactions as affordable as possible. But this feels very counterintuitive to the to the value thesis around the token if the activity

and the transaction fees are are supposed to be, you know, helping the token. So I I see you're shaking your head. Please correct correct us here. You know, what is what is the disconnect in this model? Well, I think that there's two things. You got to look at this in the long term. Got to focus on the fact that we have quadrillions of dollars worth of assets coming to chain, coming on chain, coming to open public networks and stellar first. That is huge. That demonstrates lots and lots and lot billions. The numbers after the billions, there's going to be trillions of transactions. If you just think short term and you don't think about the utility that's going to happen in the long term, then yeah, I can see you get caught up in this whole thing. Well, it's not coming to us. It's here now.

It's coming now. I have been waiting for seven years for us to be able to demonstrate to all of you out there that Stellar is the place not just for payments, but for real world assets. We've done that. We need to continue to do that. But when you have that kind of growth and that utility and truly mainstream usage, which Robbie, we haven't actually had mainstream usage on chain yet, we're getting there now. We have the regulatory environment. We have the excitement of the institutions. We have the excitement outside of the United States to be able to take this volume and do a ton with it. We need to focus on distribution. We need to make these assets real and make them so that people understand how they can use them, how they can get collateral uh and get into the space and be able to leverage

it. This is the moment. So, let's pl let's talk three years from now and we'll be in a different spot. But you can't think about the fact that you need to see it skyrocket instantaneously because that's eliminating the whole purpose of what these assets are. These are commodities. These are utility assets that are going that are the cryptographic center of how a network works and you need them for every transactions. If you're trying to generate fees from those transactions, it's short-sighted. If you look at the fact that why is Stellar unique? Stellar is unique because its validators are known validators. Everyone knows who they are. What do traditional financial institutions want? They want to be able to look and to see are is North Korea actually validating these transactions and part of this group. They can

determine that because you have to declare who you are in order to garner trust on the network. Our consensus mechanism and the way that it works actually brings these institutions here because they know who who they're going to have in their quorum set. These are all really important fundamentals that no one talks about because you think about just what's the price going to be tomorrow. I tell you guys, you should think about what the price is going to be years out based on the utility that's being brought. >> Trust me, we're not the we're not the pump it up now podcast, but I think you're totally right because you are because it is just a game of kind of like the tipping point, right? It goes into all these things like the exponential growth uh growth curve effect happens at scale and I think you

know the validators being you know known and part of the quorum is one of the again one one of these factors that makes stellar a uh a primary candidate for this era like it was probably underappreciated in the previous eras of this space but like there's there's a lot of these small whether they're regulatory compliant things whether they're just doing things the right way things there's a lot of these small things that a lot of teams didn't really prioritize or feel were important that are now coming to be very very important. One of them being privacy. Curious um about what your plans are from that perspective to kind of keep the institutional allocators and traders and asset managers happy on the privacy side. Before we do, is there any potential inflation reduction coming for

XLM? One of the things that we've heard time and time again from large VCs to devs to allocators is that the the the kind of like uh proof of stake or proof of work uh inflation models are uh often like overpaying for the economic uh security if you know who your validators are uh if they have an incentive to keep the network going. Sometimes it doesn't have to be so substantial. We've seen the the likes of Near Salana and a couple other blockchains uh you know those are proof of stake but they've they've slashed their inflation and will try to continue to do so. What's your kind of take on the XLM inflation and how you think about the um a potential future uh where you can kind of you know bring it down a bit.

>> So the interesting piece about inflation is we used to have inflation on the network when I first came. So in 2019 there was an inflation mechanism that the validators eventually voted out and it was partly because the again like utility wasn't there. So it didn't make a lot of sense to have it. The the mechanisms that were set up for it didn't make sense because it was going to like those who held the most and it was a complicated structure because the foundation at the time held the most. So that was something that was voted out by the validators. So there's no inflation mechanism on stellar any longer and there hasn't been since I think it was 2021 maybe 2020 when the validators voted it out. But I think that what again when we think about the the utility piece and you say one of the

things and and I just want to highlight this for you is that there have been a lot of shiny objects in our ecosystem holistically >> and the fact is that some of those shiny objects really actually helped us to understand what the tech stack could do. So there's a lot of value to those. One of the things that I always said in the very beginning was I'm not here for shiny objects. I'm not here to be able to focus on let's just bring a bunch of focus and attention to us because I want, you know, the price of XLM to go up and everything to be um to to focus on that. What I focused on was fundamentals. What are we trying to build? We are trying to build something that can interoperate with the traditional financial infrastructure of today. Improve it, make it better,

remove borders, remove boundaries, make everything make Jed's original idea, Jed Ma, our founder, make money move like email. Can't really say that today because email is not cool and hip. So make money move like whatever you want it to move like but really really fast >> like a signaled encrypted and instant. That's pretty good. >> Exactly. Um so when you think about it from that standpoint, those are the fundamentals that we built on. And yes, we weren't always the sexy chain. Payments weren't always sexy. On and off ramps weren't always sexy, but we're here today guys because those fundamentals are in play. And I want you to have me back in a couple of years and we can talk again about where the fundamentals are. So, I think about the the inflation piece is just part of that that discussion that we we focus on now

because we want to be able to say this is what you're going to look forward to tomorrow. I want you to look out to the future and see where where people should be putting their bets. >> Yeah, love that. Um, last thing for you from me, privacy side, what does that look like for Stellar? Obviously, open public chain, but a lot of these allocators and, you know, people that want to do things on chain from the institutional level demand this level of privacy or some level of privacy. How do how does privacy get implemented into the you know the actual chain itself and what does that roadmap and timeline kind of look like for you guys?

>> Yeah, we saw privacy coming last year. Privacy is sort of the thing that I worked on for a lot of years when I was on the content side of the web. Privacy is always really important from the retail side but also the in institutional side and we built a privacy roadmap last year which is public and it's out there. We've actually we've had two uh big upgrades to our network that brought the privacy pieces into it. that's going to be transparent at the base layer and composable for those entities that want to decide. Do they want to shield the num the amount? Do they want to shield the the users and and which accounts you're going to those are going to be questions that institutions get to decide based on the fact that we built it just like we built compliance in the base layer and it allows those

institutions to decide how they want to handle it. But it's all there and privacy is the thing that we need to see in 2026. You're already seeing it on Stellar. You're going to see lots of other folks come into this play. You cannot have institutions building on your network without privacy. That is just going to be what they require. And so we see that and we've already pushed through that. Uh and you can check out our privacy roadmap because it's publicly it's it's available publicly. >> Incredible. Denell, thank you so much for coming on. I I really do hope you come back before the the three years, not not because the token price is going to is is doing something, but but you know, obviously this thing is DTC is pushing this. We're going to we're expecting something, you know, over the summer. Um, and so yeah, thank you for

coming on, explaining more about the stellar vision, and uh, we hope to have you back again soon. >> Love to be back before the three years. Thanks you guys so much. >> Congrats on the news. Congrats again. >> Awesome work. Thanks so much for joining forward. >> All right, take care, guys. Thank you. >> See you next time. Thanks. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> All righty. Rahab, grilling her, huh? Getting her fired up, huh? God damn. >> You got to >> chat. What do we think? Uh, new type. I I know you're looking for some apps. What? like uh are we bullish after that? Less bullish, more bullish, bearish, let us know. Let's look at what XLM is doing today.

>> I mean, it's up matters 60% in the last week. >> 70%, sorry, 70% since that announcement. >> Yeah, it is. >> It gets these crazy green candles and then it gets these slow little retraces. Let's see if happens or if we can get a kind of a push up here. Purge trading at 11.2. My goodness. My goodness. So, I'm going to pull up my screen, guys, get back to that dashboard that we were just looking at. We're we're going to go through some more of these hype stats, uh, and a couple other things here. So, we're going to pull that back up. Uh, where did we leave off, Rob? I think we left we left off looking at the hype treasury numbers, I believe.

>> Um, um, yeah, let's pull it up here. >> Let's go ahead and get the get the chart on the show. So, >> yeah. So, um, per 11.2 two up a little bit since the little uh call we just had. Um dude, they're up a billion on their hype. >> We're talking about per here. >> Yeah, they're up a billion. Um Abnav at 1.3. Um dry powder 160 as as as we said, you know, it's crazy. If you look at this chart from Artemis, the DAT P&L, bro, Bitmine is down $8.3 billion, man.

8.3 billion. >> They bought more today. >> Strategy is down three and a half bill. 21, dude. Sharpink down to 1.5 bill. >> And the only two green ones, Hyperion DeFi and Hyperliquid Strategies. And so you're you're under the Wall Street tab here. >> Yeah. Okay. Wall Street and now we're on DATPNL comparison. And guys, this is I'll put it in the chat. HL.eco is the site. Um, new type says in between on XLM OG Killer. Guys, do you think Injective has a shot similar to Hype?

>> I mean, >> they've got I think they've got a shot similar to XLM. I don't know if they've got a shot similar to Hype. I don't know about uh Injective having anything close to Hyperquid, but I would say that they're >> they're they've also done a good institutional kind of like pivot or redirection like uh Hyper or like Stellar has Rob and they're pumping as well. >> Um so >> yeah, let's see what Injective is doing. >> Near looks great, guys. Like Near looks ready for to go over three. Uh I don't want just want to turn this show into uh Trading View, but like Near looks incredible.

>> Injective up 85% in the last month. >> I know. I know. >> Wow. So, so you know, you can't call this alt season. I mean, these are major L1s that are, you know, kind of coming back to life a little bit, but it's pretty incredible to see this in the face of Bitcoin ETH not really doing anything. Yeah, I know. I know, right? It's uh OG Killer, what did Injective pivot to? Um, it's not that they didn't It's not that they pivoted, but they've always been building like this like kind of like enterprise ready uh network. And so like you can launch like different chains within the Injective ecosystem. They're just like pretty like institutional

friendly. Like they have the Canary Capital guys behind them. They have a a futures thing going live soon, eventually an ETF. Um, yeah. What even is Injective? OG Killer says, "Not an alt season at all. >> Where are you guys looking? What are the alts that you guys are in?" Because if you're watching this show, you've heard us talk about cards. You've heard us talk about kinetic, hyperlid, Zcash, Mir Inject Stellar. >> I mean, Kinetic guy came on the show, y'all. Literally, that was like I mean, that was just a couple weeks. No, that was last week.

>> That was like last Wednesday. And the thing is up like 50% since then. I can't believe I didn't buy. >> Yeah. >> Uh the only reason I brought him on the show was to just get the thesis and the thesis was pretty damn good. >> Yeah. >> It's at It's at 32 cents. We had them on. It was 21 cents. >> Yeah. That's >> Connecticut% right there. >> Connecticut is screaming by still. >> Honestly. Honestly, it is. Um so yeah, back to after all the STRC. Dude, I've been in Pendle, which has been wrecked this past three days. Yeah, the Stretch product stuff is um has kind of taken a little bit of a a little bit of a backseat there, unfortunately.

>> Concoin up 20% today. >> Yeah, because they rebranded. >> Yeah, they're going to Graham. >> So, so the this T-W thing just always changes. I don't really know how to like think about because it always changes. Well, it's got to be because, you know, you have these resting orders in the in the book and if those orders get cancelled, then they get pulled from this T-W dashboard. >> Yeah, I guess. Yeah. And it just keeps changing all the time. Um, back to Wall Street hype versus public stocks revenue per employee compared to its competitors. Bruh, >> I'm looking at the uh the per fund. So, the the spot ETFs obviously and we've

got more ETFs in the pipeline. I'm I'm seeing here. >> Yeah, here's the here's the ETF. >> Great dashboard here. >> Grayscale just uh submitted >> an update here. >> I think you might have just lost my video. I I think I'm a black square right now. Grayscale, not sure what happened. >> Just flip it over to me, Leo. Um, so yeah, it looks like Grayscale maybe has just announced that. So from for Grayscale, what I thought was that they were going to have a their S1 coming out, I believe is is what I thought was coming. Sailor tweeted about Pendle and that was the top. Yeah, that's that's tough. Graham is such a better ticker.

Yeah, Graham's a good ticker, but like so I think one of you guys was saying it's not an alt season and then we had Telegram change their ticker from Ton to Graham and the thing pumped like 12% 15%. So like I know that's not like alt season indicative, but I mean guys like that was uh that's like that's like pretty silly that you change the ticker name and uh you move that that hard. Uh curious what you guys think of link dead like most other alts or a slim chance. I mean we're link bulls from the sense that like in the same way right like the stellar is working with DTCC chain link's just like dominating all of the

institutional space like pretty hard to argue that um they're pretty much doing I mean they're literally powering everything in DeFi. This layer zero event uh completely helped their story helped a lot of their business. But the thing that these companies need to answer is like okay what is your institutional flow? What is your institutional story? What is your product and business adoption? How does that lead to treating the token holders like the first class citizens? Link has this link reserve one $1 million of buybacks every week. But like there's a there's a new standard in town. It's hyperlquid. Everyone wants to have uh their buybacks to be as strong as what

hypes is. And so the way that I look at link is like I'm bullish on I think it has in institutional adoption. It's going to do well. It's going to persist. It's going to be around forever. They are extremely important for the industry. Um but yeah, on the token side, the question is like would you want to hold that over over a token that pays you more in terms of revenues to owners? Um and that's the question you kind of have to answer on your own. Yeah, it's just been what it's been. The new alt season is very specific lanes. Yeah, it's very it's very niche. Um, hyper is not really on the mind of crypto traders yet in Asia. I guess I mean I thought it would be for sure. Um, I think layer zero gets the together. Way too much VCN already to

let it die. I agree. They're not going Hyperlid's not Hold on. I got to comment on the Asia thing. Hyperl is not even available to US customers. The predominant amount of volume happening on Hyperlid is coming from Asia. No, it's not. >> Where is it coming from? >> You think it really is? >> It's not available to us. >> Well, yeah, you're right. But there is a lot of US whales trading on Hyperlid for sure. >> Okay. So, you hop on a VPN. You know, you use Hyperlid for sure. But like, >> yeah, >> you know, there's a lot of come Euromaxing this summer, Andy.

>> We had some beers in Stockholm last summer. It was a good time. pipe was ripping then too, but it was a little bit less sustainable this time. I think uh >> Giannis, I hope you're in on that, man. I remember talking about it together uh over those beers at that little outdoor patio in the sun. I hope you uh I I hope you're in. Uh with the Cali futures uh approval in the States, is Hyperlid next? I don't know. I don't really think it matters. Um Hyperlid, >> yeah, I mean, Hyperlquid is definitely going to get approval. You saw how they announced uh from their hyperlquid policy institute, they're in DC. They're lobbying with these guys. They are for sure going to get live and legal in the US.

>> Yeah. Check this one out, guys. Alltime highs on HIP3 open interest. Uh just over three bill today. Super bullish. Um what's what's funny, Rob, is that the share volume for like stocks and commodities kind of like the commodity trade has slowed down. down at 25% topped out at about 36 37%. This was kind of like what this was about two months ago or so. >> Yeah. The gold, silver, copper. Yep. >> So now that like you know, now that crypto is kind of back again, people are trading on per on hype and stuff now.

And so that's probably why it's coming down. Alltime peak 48%. But yeah, this this this is just like this is the story though, guys, right here. this number this getting to 10 bill 50 bill 100 bill in the future I mean that's a long long road but that's the story it's the amount of HIPP3 non cryptonnative assets that you can trade onchain this is not just the hyperlid thing either obviously they like they're like the leader lighter is doing a a great job variational is going to do a you know a great job that's the story um >> Giannis says he's in goodness yeah >> so so you you have up on here S&P 500 XYZ 500 uh have the most open interest from these HR3 markets. The thing to

notice here is if you go to the left and down by the market share of the deployer upwards >> yeah just to the left of that same screen >> to the left. Yeah, there you go. And just scroll down a little bit. Uh the market share over time is 90% plus XYZ trade XYZ. Right. So >> yeah, >> you'd imagine >> Oh, here >> to the left. >> This >> Yeah, that I mean that that one and the and the one on the to the side of it are the same chart.

>> Yeah, there you go. So 90 is dominant. >> So 90% >> more than 90% of HIPP3 markets are deployed by trade XYZ. I heard an interesting take where you know you get into the fat protocol thesis, fat app thesis. You know, if you have such a dominant app on Hyperlquid being HIP3, at what point do they go and verticalize their own platform? I mean, dude, I mean, come on. Don't be so don't be so disrespectful to Jeff. So, what? Don't be so disrespectful to our friend Jeff.

But you're right. They could they could have their own but but the only reason that they're enabling like the only reason trade XYZ has gotten to where they've gotten because they were able to do this on hyperlquid >> but yeah what if they launch their own token that is the argument. What if they siphon the liquidity and the fees that they make from this into buying a trade XYZ token not hype? Well boys and girls you better be trading on hyperlquid on trade XYZ assets to get that damn airdrop. That's what I'd be doing if I were you. That's how I would hedge it. >> Yeah, >> that's how I'd hedge it. Yeah, trade on trade XYZ. Trade on Hyperliquid. You get the airdrop. That makes sense. Purr has been amazing for me. Getting some skin in the game here. LFGO. Yeah, same man.

Shamus came on the show. What was that a ton? Like five $6 even lower maybe. Uh that was a couple months back. Check variational gold volume versus hype. Variation was going to be heater when they drop the token. Yeah, variation was also going to do a they're going to put up a fight on the on the investments or on the RWA trading side of things as well. Incredible. HIPP4 is just I think we have another piece of news around HIPP4. No more guests today. >> Uh so we can cover quite a bit more news.

>> Wait, what's the HIPP4 news? >> So I heard there was some drama with Poly Market and Uber trying to resolve a Sailor Cell. Uh and Hyperlid for some reason was going to fix this. I don't know how Hyperlid resolves the Oracle problem the same uh in in a better way. Well, because they don't have UMO whales trying to finagle it. They just have consensus. >> You just have hyper you just have hyperlquid whales. You have hyperlquid validators trying to finagle it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. >> Right. Let's >> This hasn't really gotten >> No, but you Right. So, obviously, you know you >> No, I I just mean like this hasn't really gotten much, you know, this is $65 million of volume so far. It's like still very It's very small still, >> but obviously, you know, a lot of the volume and the thesis behind Hyperlid is

the growth of the HIPP3 markets. you know you the next evolution of this platform is HIPP4 markets. So as we can you know we're going to see more markets we'd anticipate that this is going to drive a significant amount of open interest and volume. The nice thing about per uh uh about prediction markets, >> yeah, >> is that it has a lot of open interest that rests on the platform because outcomes are are longdated into the future and you can have perpetuals of these markets. And so if you have, you know, the presidential election in 2028, that's liquid, that's interest liquidity volume resting on the books for years, right? And that is very very sticky

liquidity. And so that is going to drive a lot of open interest and a lot of traction. But I don't see how they they will also run into, you know, the same issues. I don't know how they don't uh, you know, especially as you get into more exotic markets, you know, just because it's less validators and they're in the h they're validators of Hyperlid and it's not a secondary platform. >> I look I look I'm I own Hyperlid. you you obviously, you know, I'm I'm taking kind of the the alternative case here in in quite a bit, >> but I think um it's important to just look at the thesis here for a lot of these a lot of uh you know where Hyperlid is heading and uh and stress

test it. >> I mean, HIPP4 is definitely definitely early. Yeah, >> definitely new. Um dude, Near looks insane. Oh my gosh. >> Where are we at? >> Near looks ready to go. 2.55. Uh I got to be right back. I'm going to pass you over to the news. I think you got some AIXTE and then I think you can go into that poly market thing. I'll be back in just a sec. Um but yeah >> near looks Near looks nuts. >> Let's see what we got. Obviously got to check on Near, our exclusive AI partner. These guys are leading the wave. Near.com is where AI agents go on chain. You definitely want to get your agent uh from Near. Ironclaw also uh very very uh uh important stemic to this entire industry. Let's go ahead. Let's see what

AIXBT is uh tweeting about. Kind of hit or miss when it comes to AIXBT, but he's had some bangers. He, she, they, this agent has had some bangers. One of the few remaining uh you know, tweet bots, tweet agents from the the first generation of AI X crypto. Uh now talking about Hyperlid processed $50 billion in oil, natural gas, silver, preipo volume. That's $30 million a month in fees from some of these uh hip 3 markets.

Uh these are all from tradi derivatives. You know, obviously we're talking about trade xyz being the uh deployer of over 90% of these markets. Uh kind of cracking on some of these other players in the RWA market. Uh ando does maybe 15 million a year. Uh Hyperlquid's doing 30 million a month. the protocol that never once called itself an RWA play that's hyperlquid is doing 24x the revenue of the entire RWA sector as a side feature uh and so this is you know what it's talking about uh quickly uh HIP3 is becoming the main feature of hyperl this is what I think everyone is watching you know this is the preipo markets it's the commodities markets it's the equity

plays uh it's it's the indices plays the S&P you know uh oil Right. All of these are hip three markets. Uh, Hyperloop would never called itself an RWA play, but it's certainly becoming one. And it's doing twice as much volume, uh, excuse me, twice as many as much in fees per month as the RWA player Ono is doing per year. Um, as a side feature, tokenize all the T bills you want without leverage and liquid secondary markets. It's a PDF, not a product. This is what we continue to talk about when we think, hey, as we go and we tokenize more and more of these assets, then what what what do we do with these assets

once they're tokenized? Hyperlid has shown that they want leverage. They want secondary markets. And then obviously all of DeFi has shown us staking, looping collateralization uh farming, lending, all of these are are use cases of tokenized assets. So first step is tokenizing and there's you know tremendous companies that are doing this. Uh but once it becomes okay all of these assets are now tokenized on chain you know let let's go ahead and we can do more with that. We don't just want tokenized assets we want to do something with them. Hyperlid has the distribution rails black rockck and Apollo are spending billions trying to build. Last sentence I would push back on a little bit. Hyperlid has a distribution rails

for sure, but Black Rockck and Apollo also have distribution rails. They just have distribution to another customer segment. If you have Hyperlid with its customer segment, you have Black Rockck and we heard the owner of the New York Stock Exchange, Jeffrey Spectre. We heard him talking about the distribution to his clients. These are very complimentary and so they're talking to one another. They're learning from one another. Hyper Hyperlid is going to get regulatory approval in the US. We're going to see them uh start to tap into this US market. We're also going to see companies like the New York Stock Exchange and ICE tap into the per market. And so these guys are starting they're they're going to start tackling

a very similar market just coming at it from new from different angles, right? uh New York Stock Exchange obviously, you know, the the the lion share of American equities volume, but they're going to start tapping into PERPS because now there's a path to regulatory compliance. Hyperlid obviously doesn't give a about regulatory compliance. They've already gotten market share in the the purpose market, but now they're going to come into the US equities market by way of HIP 3. And so we're going to end up at, you know, one place, but by way of two very different paths.

Andy, you're on the show. >> I I I just I just bought more Near. I just bought more Near. I just bought more Near. >> That's what you had to You had to run away. Buy near. Now you're back. >> I had to go to the bathroom. I just bought more Near, guys. Just bought more Near. Let's go, Ilia. Turn this thing back to three. Let's go, man. Let's go. Let's go, man. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. The thing looks great. Thing looks ready to go. >> Heater when they drop the token on variational. Yeah. So obviously there's more there's more per you know >> I'm excited about variational guys. I just bought near 2.55 got in quite a bit lower. I just I mean it it looks great.

It looks it looks ready to go. Again I don't want to turn this show into a screen sharing trading view. But I'm just letting you guys know Tuesday 2:22 p.m. Just went to the bathroom and bought more near. Um Andy, I want to ask you about the timing of the rotation out of uranium into hyperlquid. >> What did you see in the markets that signal to you that this was the right decision? >> How did how you know the flows were talking to you? You were dreaming about the flows. The flows are in the room with us right now. What is it about the flows that told you, hey, >> come over to the hyperlquid ecosystem.

It's time. >> I don't know. So, I was I was always holding since um this this guy says, "What are you drinking, man? This is water and Celsius. Trust me, I had a big weekend, but it is Monday. It's Monday afternoon. We're not we're not we're not that degenerating here. The hype needs to get like 200 for us start drinking on the show." Um and so I was in that uranium position. I was getting freaking nerd sniped by like this AI trade. I thought uranium was going to have this big breakout. It faked me out twice. I lost like 100 G's on it. And I was like, I'm tired of this trade. I cannot be holding this thing. Like this is pissing me off. At the same time, I was like looking at hype and it was just it was you know I I had like a decent sized

hype position Robin Hood and I had I had sold some to pay some taxes and I had held some but I was like way underexposed to what I thought was about to happen and that and this guy that's coming on tomorrow that capital flows guy he was like kept hammering about purr and so I had been holding a little bit of per and then I you know bought some more. and it kept going up. I bought some more. And so, every time I log into my equities account, I see like perr was like rising. And my uranium position was getting smoked. And I was just like, dude, hype's at 47 right now. 447. If it breaks out here, it's going to rip past alltime highs. And then God knows where we're going. And so that was like Friday. I had bought purr. It did great.

I was like, "Holy I should have sold it all, you know, and made this rotation on Friday." So that that following Monday, so I think it was like not last Monday, but the Monday before uh so two weeks ago, I just full ported my entire equities uh portfolio into PUR pretty much almost all of it and then a little bit in the Zcash debt and uh yeah, that was the that was that man. So I'm pretty >> Did you have to wait for the equities uh trade to clear when you sold the uranium? No, you can you can I you set you sell it all and like I was just tewing out of it like limit orders okay out of it and then I was just limit ordering like immediately into purr.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. PER's at 11.45 by the way up 15% today. Hypes up 1%. >> And two weeks ago, this was maybe a couple weeks after Sheamus came into the tower. >> Yeah. I mean I I was holding the position when he was in the tower, but like a minuscule amount. >> Right. you were still in mostly in uranium and then he came in >> and in and in like hype spot. I had like I had like 10 20 G's in pearl. I was like it was like I I've been holding Coinbase since like $40 and it went up like 350 and then back down to like 200 and I was like I'm done with Coinbase.

I'm done. It was it was fun and uh and so I took my whole entire Coinbase position in the purr as like my crypto exposure in the equities account because I was getting bearpilled by a lovely friend and then I just took the bear hat off and full ported purr and now we're at 11.5. Vatons telling everyone in Long Island to buy and you know so it's Yeah. So let let's get to the UMA thing that you wanted to talk about Mr. Prediction Market expert because I feel like uh feel like this is your this is this is your lane. >> I mean look I was I was nerd sniped by prediction markets in 2019. This was the uh I I I mean the app on Ethereum that I found first was Augur and I was like whoa this is weird and cool and there's

nothing like this right now and I had gotten into uh digital assets crypto originally by playing poker uh and then there was all sorts of markets uh that kind of came as a result of that and then I got into augur and got nerd snipe by prediction markets and then found UMA uh which was able to essentially fulfill a lot of what Augur had initially tried to do um and UMA by way of poly market ended up you know becoming uh ubiquitous with prediction markets um and learned a lot about that model why it has continued to work whereas other prediction markets have failed over the years. Khi, you know, as of late has uh, you know, raised a lot of money and been able to compete, but early on uh there

was none other than Poly Market with UMA powering uh the resolution of those markets, which is extremely difficult, especially because Poly Market has some very esoteric markets. Um, here Uma Wales are currently trying to resolve the May 31st market is no on the basis that the sale wasn't announced until today. I look, I want to defend Uma. They don't get enough. >> Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Before you do, can we get the full facts of the situation up? Okay. So, can we scroll down a little bit? >> When the rules clearly state the market will be resolved based on information from MSTR and onchain data, Sailor Sailor announced 32 Bitcoin were sold in the period ending 4 p.m. on May 31st.

Correct. Sale price of 77135 indicates a sale no later than May 26th. >> Correct. >> Uh there even onchain transfers of $30 million in Bitcoin from Strategy to Coinbase Prime on May 29th. So, obviously, all of this is in May. uh like the market says what more evidence they want hit four fixes this look >> you just said it they're fighting over this when it clearly was in May >> there's no incentive for UMA to lie like what do you think Umaa there's some Uma whale that has a position that it was going to be a no like I doubt it I doubt it there's no reason for it they're trying >> said that it happened in May >> I guarantee you there is a cohort of UMA voters that are advocating for this to to resolve this yes because you're At

least on the face of it, it seems like a yes. I I I would vote for yes just presented by these facts. If there's others that it there probably are other facts that are leading some people to believe that this is no. Let's let's read the market context here is that the market will resolve yes if Micro Strategy sells any of its Bitcoin by 1159 on the date. Otherwise, this market will resolve no. The primary resolution source for this market will be information from MSDR and onchain data. However, consensus credible reporting, you know, so the onchain reporting uh the chain itself says that this this bitcoin was sold I believe May, but the announcement the the reporting from MSTR it was announced in June. That's

discrepancy. I don't think that there's UMO wales that are co colluding behind this. >> No, I agree with that. >> Right. And so they're they're just trying to read into the rules. They just saying look it was announced in June onchain it was May which one do we believe this is more so a a discrepancy in the description of the rules they should be more uh specific the rules are vague and that's why you have a a a difference in uh consensus uh you don't you don't quite have a a quorum when it comes to the UMA votes um but ultimately these things get disputed they get they get they get uh the hierarchy gets up the I don't have a problem with this and I think ultimately there's probably a very deep and rich discussion happening the UMA right now because that's that's

what's happened in all of these contentious markets you have uh you remember when the submarine blew up they were looking for the Titanic there was a market will they find the submarine well they found the capsule of the submarine but it they didn't find the entire structure well if they found a part of the submarine does it constitute finding the entire submarine these things and then there this goes on and on and on for all these esoteric markets because it's not cut and dry >> but I'm just saying Rob there shouldn't be any argument about This is obvious. So, >> I'm sure it'll get resolved in >> I don't think it's that obvious. Do you do you look at when it was announced or do you look at when it was when it was sold, >> right?

>> Yeah. I mean, I guess, but it's like very obvious like Micro Strategy sells any Bitcoin by blank. Like if you >> like they sold it all you can look at their wallet like >> zooming out a little bit from this market in particular. In general, if you have a problem with how UMA resolves these markets, you can buy UMA and you can vote on these markets. It's a totally permissionless prediction market. It's like the reason I really like it is because it's a prediction market itself. You could build a prediction market based on how you think UMA is going to resolve. And that's effectively what Poly Market does, right? It's just a prediction market based on how you think the voters are going to resolve this particular market.

Anyone can submit any claim to the the voting quorum of UMA and then it's up to them to resolve and anyone can participate in as a voter. I think >> are you an UMA Are you an UMA holder? >> I've been an UMAO holder in the past. I've been an UMA voter. Honestly, it's a lot of fun because you kind of >> never done that. >> And and the inflation rate is very high. Uh but you earn a lot by voting. Uh so it's not great to hold. Uh but if you're going to hold it and you vote with it, then you can get like 20 to 25% yield on it. But it it you know there's a lot of inflation in the token because of the yield to incentivize voting. So, >> you know, there's there's complicated token. You have to own it and

participate as well. >> That would be the way to yeah, you wouldn't want to own it without participating in voting because you would lose quite a bit of um you get diluted very quickly. Um the other thing to mention here is that the reason Poly Market has been successful is because they have weird markets. People want to trade on weird stuff like that is what gets the people going. You have a a gazillion venues for trading Bitcoin and trading indices and commodities. Like the five minute markets, the 15, all of that's great. Sure. But people want the weird markets. That's what's fun and that's what's difficult to access and get dis exposure on.

>> Those are also the most difficult to resolve. You need a super permissionless and flexible oracle resolution mechanism in order to resolve those markets. I think and and from what I read about Hyperlid's um Oracle resolution mechanism for HIT 4, it's essentially the validators that are consuming this like automated news feed and then they try to automate the resolution mechanis mechanism as much as possible. Those are going to result in a very it's almost like it's almost like communism when it comes to like these markets. you get your information from one source. All of these markets are going to resolve the

same unless you have this, you know, uh very, you know, uh unless you have like a robust biodiversity of news sources and you need multiple participants in order to do that. If you only have like 12 hyperlquid validators, you're not going to get a very robust diversity of ideas and thought and and news and and ideas and opinions and perspectives onto these markets, which means that they're going to resolve around one convergence of of thought and you don't get a very broad thesis on on how these things are supposed to resolve.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Rob, I mean, look, we'll see what this resolves. I think this shouldn't even be a question, but um we'll see where it ends up. I think that I think that's about it from us today. I just bought near. I want you guys to have a look at that. Looks great. Purr looks great. Um or I bought more near. Uh PUR looks good. Uh hype looks great. Bitcoin's barely holding the 715 mark. It needs to hold this level. It's a pretty important level. Um, and yeah, I mean like we have to see a real like we basically have to see like a real uh a real holding of the line here on Bitcoin. Um because if we don't then yeah it's going to be kind of

problematic to uh the rest of the like like just like the the rest of the market in general and we definitely want to >> do you think so? I mean it's look we have our quant saying that that yes you're right like if Bitcoin folds >> it's almost impossible for like Hyperlid near to continue to outperform but on the other hand you have the you have Bitcoin essentially folding right before our eyes and Hyperl and near look better than ever. Yeah, I mean they do and we just need it to hold. Like we don't need Bitcoin to go to 62K. That's not going to help. Uh that's not going to help the >> You don't think we get some sort of liquidity suck. People are saying, "Oh I got to get out of Bitcoin. What

am I going to buy? I'm going to buy Hyperlquid." No, it doesn't doesn't happen like that. >> I I mean, maybe maybe. I it's going to be hard to see if there's any sort of I mean, yeah, we'll see if we'll see if we get a uh like a that big of a rotation. I mean, I could see it, but yeah, I've never seen the market react so positively to like a couple names when Bitcoin's just so crushed, you know? So, >> yeah, >> what I do know that no one's talking about is Ethereum and honestly or Salana.

>> Ethereum or Salana. people people are not really really that excited about it at all. >> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. >> I mean, >> um so I don't know, man. And then you have Bit Mine continuing to buy. It's pretty incredible how they just continue to buy as these things go down. So, like is are they just going to buy on the way down forever? I I I just got to imagine that ETH and Bitcoin do return eventually. I just don't know what the catalyst is for it yet. But when you see injective near stellar, these things are up like 50 60 70% in the last week.

>> Yeah. >> I see I I I I hear our quant and I hear him saying that, you know, majors are telling us something and it doesn't bode well for the rest of the ecosystem. But then >> what are these exit exit pumps, bare market bounces? It's like what what >> or just the beginning of a bull market in parts of the asset class and a bottoming of the rest of the bear that's still taking a little bit longer in the other parts. I mean that's kind of like the ideal scenario. >> That is the ideal scenario and these are the two competing thesis about where we go from here. This is either the the end of something or the beginning of something. And I it feels like we're going to find out here pretty soon.

>> Yeah. Actually, let's just go into this last thing here. Um if we can here uh Killer says we need a concrete ceasefire. That's the catalyst that we really need. >> Wait, why? >> Because I think there will be a pivot into ETH when it gets cheap enough. I agree with that. That's that's when I'd be buying a ton of ETH is like if we get down to that $1,000 range and people are just calling it over and dead, man. I'd be like I'd be all over it. >> But then h how do you think like hyperl and near react to ETH at a thousand? >> I don't know. But to me, it's not appealing at $250 billion valuation. I mean right now Ethereum is >> in a real narrative forms. I agree both of those things.

>> Ethereum is only what eight times the mark. No, sorry. I'm looking I'm not even >> It depends on how you look at these mark caps for like hype for example. But >> um but yeah, so I agree with Kilo though like I think it's like a pivot when it's cheap enough type of thing. Um >> but here I mean we were kind of hoping that we had a >> 15x Hyperlid is uh needs a 15x in order to get to Ethereum's market. Are you on one of those like uh X with Y market cap sites? >> Uh no. I just did the math in my head looking at >> all I'm going to show you. Uh I'm I'm gonna pull that up. It's uh those are always fun fun >> fun little exercises there.

>> I think it's 15x. Um yeah. So obviously, you know, the war is just it it's just playing with our assets. Um Iran announces it's ending all negotiations with the US and vows to completely block the straight of her moose. Uh, Iran says ending negotiation due to repeated ceasefire violations, including Israeli strikes in Lebanon. Man, it's it's funny how, you know, funny, maybe not the right word for it, but um, America and Iran are technically at war, but all of this hinges on Israel and Lebanon going at it. Um, Iran also threatens to block the Bab al-Made straight. I believe they did block that straight as well, which I think is on the coast of Oman. OG Killer

says Tom is not dumb, bro. I mean, that's not what we're saying. I mean, we're saying like like he knows what he's doing. So does Joe, which is like they have the right thesis. It's just like it was just like a very It was very aggressive like uh illtime buys at the top. It was just like very aggressive. It was just like slamming it instead of like, you know, letting the market come to them a bit more. New type says, "What happened with Celestia?" I I don't know. I don't either. >> I I I met with some of them a couple weeks back in New York, but not a whole lot really uh uh you know, kind of came of it, but they are working. I mean, they have a ton of money. They have a huge war chest, so you know, they're still around. Um and so, you know, the

war continues to rage on. There's a couple of teams that are doing this. Yeah. I see I know we're saying quite the opposite. Tom is smart. Like, there's a reason he's buying. Joe Shalom is smart. These guys have massive amounts of capital. They decided to port it all into ETH and they're doing so for a reason. Um, and it's going to take time to play out. Ultimately, these things do need a catalyst in order to rise. What is that catalyst? Because the quiet part out loud, bro. No, I mean like both both Tom Lee and Joseph bought a little bit too aggressively and and Celestia has a massive war chest and a a ton of work on adoption and product market fit. It's It's nothing offensive or wrong with that. So, here's hype with

the mark cap of Soul. >> Um, >> that's only at 3x. >> Yeah. I mean, it's going to overtake uh it's going to overtake soul. Uh >> Oh, yeah. In terms of price pretty pretty quickly, I think. How about near? I mean, bro, like like this is I mean this starts this is where you start to get I like the hopium kind you know I like that. >> But even like this like right like >> yeah there you go >> you know. >> Yeah >> or this you know.

>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. >> Stuff like that like these are probably these are probably probably doable you know. or what is another like >> I mean look you've got tokenization super cycle you've also got AI super cycle so yeah I I think look AI is not slowing down anytime soon um anytime soon like I mean dude some of these are so obvious like how about Cardano like where's is near above Cardano at this point >> no Cardano is still above Hyperlid isn't it >> no it's not Cardano is down like 15 oh yeah bro like I mean come I mean, come on.

>> Hold on. Hold on. Let me see your screen. >> Card Cardono is going to be out of the top 10 soon. We can do it. Let's go. Yeah, I I agree, man. I agree. >> Yeah. Card Cardono is out of the top 10. Cardano's 15. Zcash. >> This is the one that that everyone's going is going to be excited about. >> Whoa. Zcash. >> That's the one that gets the Zcash people super excited. Um I think Arthur was saying 10% of Bitcoin's market cap uh should be Zcash >> would be 15x exactly. Yeah, sounds about right. See Zcash 10% of Bitcoin's market cap.

>> I think that's enough for today, guys. Um per looks amazing. Sooie, lol. Cardano dead. Sooie dead. See, now you're saying the quiet part out loud. I'm not saying that, man. You're the one saying that. >> Yeah. Hyperlid. Uh man, they're just going to keep chipping away at this top 10. >> Figure Heliloc is next. >> Yeah, they are. >> They're I mean obviously they're, you know, a stable coin, if you will. So, uh they're going to continue, you know, shoving out loans, but they're not growing super super quickly. Um what we do have is >> lost Rob again.

>> You know what that Can Can you still hear me? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um >> All right. Well, we're gonna >> This is the This is the B&B um uh hype with the market cap of B&B 5.77 5.77x. I still think that's kind of like aggressive, too. I don't know. I think that's enough for today, guys. Um I saw Cardono cancel their event because they failed to pass some foundation vote. Interesting. Did not see that. has haven't been paying that much attention to the uh to the Cardano uh world if you you know to be honest with you. But I thought Injective would do this, but looks like Hype Kid is a new kid. Hype is a new kid on the block with the best

moves. Thanks guys. That was fun. Yeah guys, I think that wraps us that wraps us up for today. You are watching the rollup live from the tokenization tower in New York City, the Empire State Building. Guys, if you're on YouTube, uh give us some love. James, thank you for the $10 donation. Much love, man. Uh, give us a like, give us a subscribe. We'll we'll be live here tomorrow, actually, with James and his partner on his show, Capital Flows. They've got this gamma squeeze per thesis. Uh, so we're going to start with them immediately at our usual go live time about 12:30. Uh, we'll have James and his partner on for a good 45 minutes understanding what that per gamma squeeze means. Uh, so look looking forward to that. Thanks again, James, for the 10. And thank you everyone for watching uh here and being in the chat.

Great show, great vibes for hype holders. We're at 73.2. Per looks amazing. Near looks great. So guys, stay optimistic. Someone's got to be optimistic in this market. Thanks for rocking with us. We'll see you guys tomorrow.