🚨LIVE: Regulatory Green Light Is On! HYPE ATH. BTC Perps Onshore, Paxos x SEC. Liberman & BenCera in

Transcript

[music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] >> 17 [music] floor.

[music] We'll see you around the timeline. Feels good to be back. I think the rollup is one of the most [music] premier media brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding into my library every day [music] potentially multi-chain deployments. We are at day one here. I'm guessing from base. [music] [music] [music] [music]

Heat. [music] [music] [music] [music] Heat. [music] JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, Fidelity,

the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. >> I'm bullish. >> HE SAID IT. HE FINALLY SAID IT. SO BULLISH. It >> is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] Heat.

[music] [music] Heat. [music] Heat. [music] [music] Heat. [music] >> [music]

[music] >> Corola [music] is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up. [music] [music] >> [music]

[music] [music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> What is the next? See you on the show. >> We are live on Hyperlquid all-time high day discussing our team's involvement in the hyperlquid markets. We've got team in spot. We've got team and per the treasury companies to ETFs all over the board. We are investing in the trifecta of the bare market. Absolutely incredible to hit assets amidst broader

weak market conditions. It feels like uh it it feels like if you can hit near hyperl liquid, if you had Zcash, Zcash consolidating a little bit. Obviously, this is the cold open in the show today. This is all anyone is talking about. We're going to get into PERS in the US. We're going to get into everything that is coming out of the CFTC, but you can't open the show without talking about Hyperlid at all-time high, an absolutely meteoric rise, and uh the the team is uh the team is fully invested. We've got all of our attention uh looking at hype, Zcash, Near VVV, uh and then the list goes on from there. Guys, another incredible show shaping up today. We're

going to get into the weather, the markets, the topics. Of course, this show is sponsored by Plume. I'm in South Florida, sunny South Florida, as you can see outside. We're missing the New York City skyline today. That skyline is sponsored by Plume. The tokenization tower is holding it down up there in New York City. And we're going to have another great show for you guys today. Um, we've got some incredible guests. First, of course, our topics powered by Treasure, the best hardware wallet in the game. Uh they recently just announced that you can earn uh interest on your stable coins directly from uh Treasure, which is very very cool. You don't really see hardware wallets

enabling some of these things. Uh I do believe it's optional. Uh and they are uh using Morpho to power some of that uh interest earning products. Uh and then of course uh the best hardware wallet in the game. We've got Yan uh coming to us from Deli a little bit later today. We're going to be talking about agents. We're going to be talking about Micro Strategy, Stretch, of course, Hyperlquid, and all the rest of the things happening in the market, uh alts, Bitcoin, and the like. And then we're going to get into uh Polar Pelosia's co-founder, Ben uh Sarah, who is also deep in the AI trade. This is what we're seeing. Uh this is what we're seeing in

the midst of pretty much broad weak market conditions. We did get some movement uh in the Middle East today. We're going to be chatting about that. But overall, this is the AI bottleneck trade and everyone has their attention. Whether you're in crypto, whether you're in generic markets, equities, all across the board, you're looking at the AI bottleneck trade. Guys [snorts] let's keep things moving along. Before we do, let's tell you about our stable coin sponsor, FRA. Stablecoin super cycle. We've got a lot of very exciting stable coin announcements that are be coming out over the next couple of weeks. FRA is our stable coin sponsor. They power our stabled up show.

It's open, stable, borderless money. Stable coins are going to power the AI trade uh and the agentic finance of the next generation. Uh guys, I'm in Florida. It's about 10 degrees warmer than what you might be used to up there in New York. It's partly cloudy today. The weather in Florida is pretty predictable. Actually, this during the summer, you can basically be guaranteed that you're going to get a little afternoon shower. 87° it's warm. And the weather is sponsored by Relay as usual, guys. From New York to Florida, from Arbitrum to base, Relay will take you everywhere that you want to go.

Relay.Link is your intense crosschain solution. Uh, relay.link is where you can you can go anywhere you need to. And I believe they're incorporating some more of these environments as well. The Zcash, uh, the Hyperliquids, the Nears, uh, of course, Near Intense, uh, is another great product as well. But Relay sponsoring our weather segment as always. Big shout out to these guys. Uh, we're going to keep things moving along. So, we want to chat about our news segments. Obviously, some very exciting announcements coming out of the per landscape. Um, and so, yes. Yes, let's do it. Uh, we're going

to go over two markets. Uh, but first, we're going to tell you about dinari, guys. Dinari is our tokenized equity partner. Uh, these guys are gearing up for a launch in the US. I can imagine that of course once we tokenize these assets both non-speculative and equities we're going to see a lot more a ton of things happen out of the CFTC today including 24/7 trading tokenized equities is going to help enable 247 trading of some very high quality asset classes. Dinari is going to help you do that. Look at the markets. No surprise we're green across the board. What you don't see here is Hyperlid putting in all-time highs at $67.

Absolutely incredible. I've got to refresh because every time I refresh, feels like Hyperlid is going up and up and up and up. Uh maybe retraceed a little bit just about at 67 near holding here 261 262. Uh I'm excited to chat with Yan about how we think majors are going to hold up amidst this AI bottleneck trade. Obviously Hyperlid near these are the coins that are getting the most attention. You heard Arthur come on the show last week and talk about effectively this 20x potential in near also talking about how he's bagged up on hyperlquid and Zcash.

uh our quant is saying that uh if we don't get some stability in Bitcoin and ETH, it's going to be difficult for a sustained rotation into hyperlquid near Zcash, these things. We really need Bitcoin and ETH to hold up in the markets in order for the rest of these quote unquote altcoins to surge. We did have some movement in the Middle East. The war seems to be coming near and near and near uh an agreement. And so if we can get that, it feels like that is going to be bullish for Bitcoin and ETH. We also have the SpaceX IPO.

People are speculating that this is going to drive a lot of attention for Hyperlid because obviously they have a preIPO market, perpetual market on Hyperlid right now for SpaceX. We're going to see how closely aligned this is to the IPO price right now. Now I think it is coming in around 2 trillion uh give or take on the preipo market on hyperlquid for SpaceX. And then of course what we have is Kevin Worsh coming in. These are sort of the macro headlines that we're watching. Uh we're watching the war, we're watching Kevin Worsh, we're watching some of these mega IPOs coming up. If we can get all of these things sustained, then there is uh then there is a case for Bitcoin and ETH

to hold their levels, not make new lows, take back 75K, take back 80K on Bitcoin and push towards 90 and 100K. And if we do that, it feels like the coins that are rallying now are going to rally even harder if we're able to get majors to hold up. Obviously, everyone is watching hyperlquid and near, but we need Bitcoin and ETH to sustain these levels in order to get a sustained rally in some of these altcoins. Of course, Zama is sponsoring markets. This partnership feels especially relevant as of today. I feel compelled to take a look at Zama, who is again leading some of the privacy trade. They're up today.

Uh they are above their launch price. Zama looks good. Zama's up 10% from when they went live. Uh they had a very uh uh novel and unique launch strategy. Um in the last uh 3 months they're up 76%. Uh they're up 44% in the last month. Zama is surging. Um I think they are certainly playing into the privacy trade. Up 22% this week and had a big big rebound. I think there's this cast of characters, this cast of tickers that are coming in uh kind of flying under the re radar a little bit. Um and obviously shout out to Zama. They've got

some amazing merch and uh they're going to be uh in the tokenization tower very very soon. So Zama's a great partner on the privacy side as well. uh token is obviously doing quite well as part of the privacy trade that is ongoing and amidst uh the uh the AI bottleneck trade. Um so that is the digital assets markets today. Guys, we've got a lot cooking. I feel compelled to mention that the rollup is going to get a facelift here pretty soon. Shout out to our friends at Streamless Media that are helping power the rollup show day in and day out. We couldn't do it without you guys. And we've got some very very fun uh stylistic uh upgrades coming to the uh system real real soon. Entire team

has been working on that and uh I'm excited to share that with you guys as well. Been testing this and we're going to be seeing a lot more guys. We have movement uh we have movement in the war. So I'm going to kick things over. Um I'm going to kick things over. Just want to save a tweet that I'm going to share with you guys in a little bit. Guys, let's keep it moving. Uh, let's head over and talk about some of the news. But first, let me tell you guys about Dar uh, excuse me, about Near. Near is a our AI partner. These guys are doing absolutely incredible. You hear us talking about them. They power our AI super cycle segment every single week and it truly is an AI super cycle. Uh

guys, we're teeing up for a Near uh Venice podcast episode. We're going to get that one on the books because Near AI is helping power a lot of Venice. Obviously, VVV is now uh included in Confidential Intents. And so, Near, I couldn't ask for a better AI partner as more and more uh flows come into the AI bottleneck trade and more and more uh demand and attention just continues to seep into AI in general. Okay, switching gears a little bit here from AI. The two things happening in the world. It's AI and it's per. And here we have Mike Celig and I want to I want to

make sure we stick on this because we've got some replies to this tweet that that we're going to want to read as well. So Mike Celix says in his first public remarks as CFTC chairman and I remember this when Paul when Mike Celic went up there with Paul Atkins and he made some of his initial remarks. He said that he made it clear that the first agency would use the tools as it disposal to onshore crypto asset perpetuals. And today the CFCC is delivering on that commitment. This morning the CFTC took historic action to permit the listing of a true Bitcoin perpetual contract by a CFTC registered exchange. They're talking about Koshi and we're going to get into this Koshi perpetual Bitcoin market in a little bit. Obviously, everyone is looking at how Hyperlid

reacts to the CFTC announcement charting a path for one of the most liquid segments of the crypto asset markets to exist within the US regulatory framework. So, this came in this morning. last night, the chairman of ICE, the founder and leader of ICE, which is the Intercontinental Exchange and the uh owner of the New York Stock Exchange, decided that Hyperlquid is bigger than the NASDAQ. And so, let's go ahead and read a little bit more because we want to put all these pieces together. Essentially, PERS are becoming regulatory compliant and legal in the US. Mike Celix says that in years past, bureaucratic regulators approached the new frontier finance with the assumption

that innovation itself represented a threat to the public interest. People get mad at anything that they don't understand. Uh Mike Celich takes a different approach and he says, "Fortunately, thanks to POTUS' leadership, these days are behind us. The US is now the crypto capital of the world." Um, Mike Celix says that today's action will ensure crypto asset perpetuals and it reflects the CFTC's commitment to fostering responsible innovation while ensuring that these novel projects are traded on regulated exchanges. This point in particular I think is important.

It means that you look at the current swath of perpetual markets out there, the current, you know, cohort of perpetual platforms, these are on the path to regulatory compliance and CFTC registration. He says that these will be regulated exchanges and this is somewhat consistent with what we heard from the ice president yesterday. And so Mike Cely, just to wrap this up here, he says, "This commitment guided my earliest remarks as chairman will continue to guide the commission's work as it looks to ensure that the new frontier finance is built in America and therefore regulated by America. As you guys know, Hyperlid is not currently regulated by uh the CFTC, the SEC, even

though they list, you know, preIPO perpetuals markets and they list perpetuals on things like Bitcoin. Uh these are operating in the unregul regulated environment. they're operating offshore. The goal of the CFTC and this administration is to bring those onshore, but caveat, if they come onshore and they're offered to American citizens, they need to be regulated and uh under under some of the regulations like the CFTC is mentioning. So, this is much more a collaborative environment than the last environment. I anticipate that they will be working with the likes of Hyperlid and more perpetual platforms to ensure that they are on a path to regulatory compliance. Let's hear what Hyperlid has to say in reaction to

Mike's Mike Celig's uh announcement from the CFTC this morning. Hyperlid uh and this is coming out of Hyperlquid's policy center which I believe Jake Shervinsky uh left his previous day job and is now leading the Hyperlquid policy center uh in DC. He's making uh Hyperlid a stakehold household name. And uh they say that the CFTC uh you know they welcomed today's CFTC actions and just at the preface you know people saw uh Mike Celig's announcement. The market didn't really react for about an hour.

And I think the reason for this is because people were s sort of speculating, hey, is this bearish in the sense that now all of a sudden Hyperlquid's competitors are are compliant and regulated and going to be offering, you know, per in the US, meaning the CME, the CF uh the the the you know NASDAQ, the the uh New York Stock Exchange, you know, in their you know, given that they have incumbent status now that it there is a regulatory path for them to offer per they are the ones that are going to be eating into hype's market share in the per market not necessarily you know some of the some of the second and third uh crypton native perpetuals platforms that was sort of one one perspective the other

interpretation is this is incredibly bullish for the likes of Hyperlid because now there is a real path for them to compete with the likes of CME and uh and the likes of New York Stock Exchange okay so now if we look at Hyperlid's response to This this is when the the the market really started to move because it said, "Hey, the Hyperlquid Policy Institute is actually responding to this directly, which means they had advanced notice of this. They know how to react to it. They know how to use it to their advantage. And it says that they welcome today's CFTC actions because it means that there's approval of the US listed perpetual derivatives contract, which Hyperlid already offers.

Uh there's an accompanying commission policy statement on the listing of perpetual derivatives. So there's some guidance on how these listings should occur. Uh there's interpretive guidance and no action relief from the market participants division. Uh which basically says that you know even if hyperlquid is able you know they already offer these things. Uh and and so it means that there's a no action letter here. Uh which is great because it means that you know we can essentially do some of this financial experimentation. we can be innovative in the market and we're not going to be, you know, uh, issued enforcement letters by the by the CFTC.

And then, you know, this secondary piece here that people kind of didn't really take right away is this advisory on 247 trading, which we all knew this was going to come, but basically the CFTC did this in one fell swoop. They they made a path for regulatory compliance of PERPS and they made a path for 247 trading, clearing and settlement in one announcement. And so this is a long overdue acknowledgement that perpetual derivatives are a legitimate and essential tool for price discovery and risk management. Says for too long, regulatory ambiguity drove these markets offshore, depriving American traders and institutions of access to regulated venues and undermining US competitiveness in the global

derivatives market. This is an effort to reshore perpetual derivatives and perpetual swaps, meaning Hyperlid is going to be coming to the US. It means that they're probably going to have to KYC. They're probably going to have to do some of these regulatory things in order to become compliant with uh the CFTC's regulations. So, I'm particularly curious to see how Hyperlid reacts to this. Will we see a bifurcated market where we have a Hyperlquid front end for the US? It involves KYC, AML, and everything that they need in order to be regulatory compliant. And then separately we have hyperlquid you know in general hyperlquid abroad where you don't need a KYC you're a true decentralized platform there's a long road ahead still a very early innings as

to how hyperlid will react to this bifurcated market in order to maintain regulatory compliance and ultimately find a path to serve US customers. Let's keep things going. Obviously we can't mention today's news without talking about uh the first American perpetual future. Shout out to KHI. these guys were able to do it. Um, one of the things that I love about the likes of Khi Chainlink uh Hyperlquid uh some of the Goliaths of the industry, a sky, Ethereum, these guys pave the way for projects behind them and effectively open up regulatory rails for more projects to operate on. These guys are stewards. They're pioneers. So, in this case, it's Khi working with the

innovation council in the CFTC. uh Trek is part of that innovation council. Uh so is um Vance Spencer framework. Uh Shane from Poly Market. These guys are effectively the giants that everyone else will stand on the shoulders of. They go into the CFTC. They work closely with regulators and they carve out a plan and a market structure for certain products. In this case, it's a Bitcoin perpetual. Khi will offer this Bitcoin perpetual and the CFTC uh enabled them to do so and of course uh KHI is regulated by the CFTC. So you have a CFTC compliant perpetual future that is listed on a CFTC regulated exchange in

KHI and uh this has now opened up the entire breadth of Perpetuals markets and so obviously shout out to KHI for championing this pioneering and leading the way for uh perpetuals in the US. This now opens up this entire industry, this entire sector of market structure in perpetuals uh for the likes of Hyperlquid and more per platforms uh to offer these things to us customers. So very very very cool to see. Um guys, let's keep things moving. Obviously, this is the big the biggest news. I want to get you guys uh involved with our partner Infinifi because these guys are also doing incredible things in the DeFi

market. higher yield, no leverage, right? Transparent capital efficiency, earning uh efficient yields in DeFi. These guys are doing some really, really cool things when it comes to RWAs. They've got upwards of $100 million uh locked in their protocols uh which is doing really really well and I think they're gearing up for a significant launch and TGE coming up very very soon. Nothing confirmed, but we want to keep you guys up to date there. All right, here's the movement in the Middle East that I was mentioning. Uh, President Trump says the US Navy is lifting its blockade uh, in the Strain of Hermoose and he is meeting in the situation room to make a final determination of the deal. We're seeing markets react to this news. Let's just get a quick check in on

the markets. Believe. Let's see. Okay, Bitcoin is nearing 74, but it's retraced a little bit. Hyperlid back down under 67 near under 260. So, we're keeping a close eye here. Uh Iran must agree that they will never have a nuclear bomb. That is basically hardline uh what this deal is all about. The Hormuse straight must be immediately open. Uh which means that the US is no longer blockading it. Uh unrestricted shipping in both directions. No water mines or bombs. They will need to be terminated. I believe they're going to pull the enriched uranium out of the ground in Iran and bring it to the US. Uh so we're basically seizing the rare earth mineral

minerals that are coming out of Iran so they cannot use them in nuclear bombs. Uh no mines uh ships caught in the straight due to our amazing and unprecedented naval blockade uh which will now be lifted uh may start the process of heading home. Say hello to your wives, husband, parents and families from me, your favorite president. Inc absolutely incredible material coming out of uh our president here in America. uh the enriched material sometimes referred to as nuclear dust which is buried deep underground with virtually collapsed mountains uh that is going to be coming out uh and unearthed by the United States uh with the mechanical capacity of doing so in close in conjunction with the

Isbolic Republic of Iran and the ent international atomic energy agency and destroyed uh so they will be destroying this enriched uranium uh there was also rumors that they were going to pay Iran for reparations uh to rebuild some of the some of the sites that were bombed by us, the United States. Uh now, we're saying that no money will be exchanged. We will not pay uh Iran to rebuild uh until further notice. So, it sounds like the uh the door is still open for some of that, but other items of far less importance importance have been agreed to. So, those must have been the concessions that we made. Those are of course far less important. Uh and Trump will be now meeting in the situation room to make a final determination. So the war is coming to an end. We've seen

several uh of these things coming up. Um and you know there was agreements that were floated in both directions and it finally seems as if uh we are nearing a resolution to the war which is very very good to see. Um okay I want to keep going here. Um, I want to actually skip uh actually we can go to Paxos briefly. Uh, but I want to tee one up next here uh in our curators chat. We're cooking here behind the scenes. Um, okay. So, we do have more movement this time from the SEC and we're working on another podcast for you

guys with the SEC. Uh well before before you know we'll get Mike Celig on to talk from the CFTC's perspective as well but of course friend of the show Hester Pur uh we're going to work on her coming up very soon as well. Uh in this case the SEC granted registration to Paxos Securities Settlement Company. This is a subsidiary of Paxos. Uh and they are now the only blockchain native firm registered to provide clearing and settlement infrastructure as a central securities depository in the United States. So obviously the DTCC owns 97% market share when it comes to uh depository uh for securities in the US.

Now what this is doing is I believe Paxos is going to be entering the market. They think that the DTCC is kind of out over its skis. Obviously they own 97% market share but when it comes to tokenized equities on chain the DTCC is entering an entirely new world and a new ballgame. And so Paxos, I believe, is saying, "Hey, we already operate in a blockchain environment. We know what it takes." And so whether it's stable coins or it's tokenized equities, who really cares if we can get regulatory approval? We have the infrastructure. Uh we know how to operate in this environment. The DTCC and the incumbents, despite owning a lot of market share in the traditional game, the traditional market when it comes to securities, this is a whole new competitive landscape. And so these two

are coming at it. And I see this as Paxo starting to compete with DTCC, which by the way does quadrillions. Yes, quadrillions with a Q quadrillions of volume every year in security settlement volume on their depository. Paxos is entering the game. Uh I imagine that they will be able to take uh meaningful market share because they understand onchain infrastructure. They know how to operate it. Um, the DTCC obviously understands securities infrastructure and they know how to operate that. But when it comes to tokenized securities infrastructure on chain, these two both have their own specialties and they're both experienced in their own way. And I imagine that they're going to end up

competing uh and both uh have some meaningful market share. Very, very excited to see how this plays out for Paxos and the DTCC alike. The future is clear. We know these things will end up on chain. They will be tokenized. Um, we're also, and I want to flip, let's go ahead to, uh, the ICE chairman. Uh, and before we do, we're going to do a quick shout out to LeFi, our onchain intense partner. These guys are forging universal market access for digital assets. I'm excited because they're opening access for new market classes just like the tokenized equities that we are discussing today. I also believe that they are going to be operating in a shared liquidity environment which is ultimately the path that we're seeing a

lot of these aggregators move towards. So Leafy is doing exactly this and they have a great team behind them pushing forward. Okay, this is what I want to get to because this is a great segue from our last uh our last um uh shout out. Um where the ICE founder and CEO Jeffrector uh he owns the New York Stock Exchange. Yes, you heard that right. Owns the New York Stock Exchange and he was talking about Hyperlid uh over the last couple of days. And so he says Hyperliquid is bigger than NASDAQ. Okay, if you haven't heard about it, it's bigger than NASDAQ and it's pretty damn big. And if it

wasn't clear that hype has grown far beyond crypto, now we have the founder and CEO of the owner company, the holding company, the New York Stock Exchange talking about Hyperlid, putting it uh at bigger than NASDAQ in comparative terms. Uh there's a lot more that I want to get to and I'm going to read uh some of the excerpt here. Uh we're just going to give it a quick we're going to pull I'm going to pull it up on my side so that I can really give you guys a full look into exactly what's happening here. Put on the glasses because there is quite a lot of tidbits uh in this. Um but just as I mentioned you know before Paxos is starting to

compete uh with the incumbents uh in the tokenized equities world. Um we also have uh quite a bit happening when it comes to the vice president on Hyperlid. So he says uh one Jeff has and this is when I say Jeff I'm talking about the owner of the New York Stock Exchange. Okay. So Jeff uh is obviously uh the founder of Hyperlid Jeffrey Yan. Uh but then Jeff Spreer is the CEO of ICE. And so he says first of all they've been talking quite a bit and they like what they're doing. So they've met a number of times personally. They talk about what they're doing, what we're doing.

And there may be some common overlap that they can work together on. Uh they've gotten plenty of attention because they've been trading oil on the weekends. And it just so happens that this conflict in the Middle East, there's been a lot of activity that happens on the weekends. So a lot of decisions are happening and it's gotten a lot of interest. He also goes on to say that there's this pre-IPO market. He says that it's going to be really interesting to watch on June 11th when SpaceX goes public because what this private market has discovered as the price and whether the price impacts the IPO. And so he says that people are either going to love Hyperlid or they're going to hate Hyperlid and and it's either going to be highly irrelevant or highly relevant depending on how closely the real IPO market tracks the Hyperlid

preo market. Uh so he says he's going to withhold judgment on how relevant this is really going to be. But this is going to be increasingly important as we see how impactful and relevant the preipo market on hyperlquid is for the space x IPO. Um he even says that depending on how big this market gets, it's possible that this perpetual market for the SpaceX IPO could be bigger than the IPO itself on Hyperlid, which is absolutely insane. He says, "I salute these guys for doing it." I mean, these are very, very smart people, and this is partly why we're seeing Hyperlid at all-time highs today.

Um, he also says, uh, when it comes to price discovery, they're watching it. They're watching the price discovery of oil as it happens on weekends. He also says that, uh, they're just going to have to get used to the interplay of retail and professional trading 24/7, 365. These things are happening, uh, right in front of us. Um, he says that if he was younger, he would be doing it. By the way, the number of billionaires that are being created by doing this Hyperlid, what we're talking, if you haven't heard, it's bigger than the NASDAQ and it's only 11 people. Wow, that's really something. Couple other blurbs to pull out here. Um, there was a a article that was uh uh written about uh CME, New York Stock Exchange, and it had some people that were kind of

skeptical of Hyperlid and some of the risks. Jeffrey uh of of ICE says that is completely fabricated. uh it had us in the head headline uh said we were freaked out. We're not freaked out. We're actually talking to the these people meaning Hyperlid and they're learning about it. Uh they're learning what we're doing. We're helping them understand our world. They're helping us understand their world. And in a sense, this is a joint admiration. And so I'd imagine that there is going to be a partnership in the works between the New York Stock Exchange and Hyperlquid. Uh what we're saying to the regulators is can we do that? This is a point that is extremely important as we heard CFTC talk about perpetuals uh this morning.

So from Jeffrey the CEO of ICE he says what we are saying to the regulators is can we do that meaning why are we why are you prohibiting us from doing this when it's already happening hyperlquid is already doing this abroad why are we at New York Stock Exchange prohibited from doing this in the domestic market and can't we have a level playing field by the way this stuff is global so and the US is very under this administration very pro- digitization and so how do we square that circle because we'd like to do more of it meaning that New York Stock Exchange and ICE would like to do more perpetual contracts. Uh but we'd like to do more of it if you think it's lawful. Speaking directly to the CFTC, literally less than 24 hours later, they say yes indeed it is lawful. There is a

path to list per regulated perpetual contracts. Um and if you don't think it's lawful, then how come they're not getting the same nasty letters that you send us? So basically saying if it was unlawful, why isn't Hyperlid getting enforcement letters? Well, the reason is because it turns out it is lawful and uh the CFTC came out and said that this morning. So now there's a path for the New York Stock Exchange uh to list these perpetual markets as well. And so this is kind of the back and forth that we're seeing. I think we will see New York Stock Exchange list their perpetual markets. But now there's also a market for uh there's a path for Hyperlid to become regulatory compliant in the United States. And so we're going to see these two go head-to-head.

Um he also goes on to say that you know this thing it's called the perpetual future in the traditional world it's called a swap and there's a long long storyried history of how swaps are treated in the US uh with DoddFrank title 7 in DoddFrank basically lays out exactly how these things are treated seems like CFTC is making a carveout uh as part of their innovation exemption uh their innovation council they've been working on carving out perpetual uh exchanges uh so now we're going to see that uh then uh New York Stock Exchange CEO Jeffrey Spectre goes on to say that he is working on a blockchain for the New York Stock Exchange. Uh they've achieved success working on this internally. Uh he says that uh they do 1.7 trillion transactions a day and

currently we just don't have a blockchain of that throughput. Uh but he does say uh that that is staggering volume on the New York Stock Exchange. It's more than Google search and there's no chain that can handle that kind of volume and so they had to build it out internally. there is this alternative trading system that they're working on and we also have 247 trading from the CFTC uh get approved today and we've seen some guidance as a result of that. We've got our guest uh just about ready in the back. The last thing to point out as part of what Jeffree Spectre is saying in uh on ICE, uh this is the last thing and it kind of ties together, you know, how Paxos could compete with DTCC for tokenized security depositories on

chain, how Hyperlid could compete with the New York Stock Exchange for market share when it comes uh to uh you know perpetuals. It says uh Jeffrey says I think blockchain as it exists today even the best chains are not good enough to net positions relatively quickly and move collateral near instantaneously but not at the same speed. Uh that velocity that trades are being done and so I think that what it will be a relatively easy and painless transition for most people because collateral movement against the positions that you all take is done by your back office. It's well understood how to move capital. think this is just relatively different set of pipes.

Basically saying this is a foregone conclusion. All of the trading that New York Stock Exchange does will move onchain. Whether that's on hyperlquid or it's on this alternative trading system remains to be seen. But he says that the big banks are working with us and accommodating that wiring and that network. Eventually most people will coalesce around a single chain. This is something that I think is extremely important. Most people will coalesce around a single chain and or multiple chains that can talk to each other. And you have to wonder is he talking about this alternative trading system from NY?

Is he talking about hyperlquid? Is he talking about Ethereum? But he says this will happen pretty organically but relatively quickly. This is extremely important coming out of uh Jeffrey uh the founder and CEO of ICE, the owner of the New York Stock Exchange. I'm excited to get our first guest up, Yan from Deli. Uh why don't we uh go ahead and uh get him up on the show because we've got plenty to chat about um when it comes to the CFTC um hyperlid uh Bitcoin, the markets abroad, AI, bottleneck trade, there's tons to talk about. Uh Yan, welcome to the show, man. It's a pleasure to have you.

>> Thanks for having me. Yeah, excited to be here. >> Absolutely, man. I mean, you know, last night, uh, you know, we heard this this Jeff, uh, Spreer, the the CEO, founder of IC, the owner of New York Stock Exchange, talking about Hyperlid, saying it's bigger than the NASDAQ. Uh, and and then just this morning talking about, uh, you know, the CFTC basically giving approval for a path of uh, regulated perpetuals in the US. I mean, I'm just curious, you know, when you hear some of these news pieces and you think about the scale of the industry and where we're headed, what is your reaction? It feels like I mean these like lofty goals that we had to basically tokenize everything and every asset will be on chain. For a while it was like you know we said it, we claimed it, but did we really believe it? Now it

feels like it's happening. What's your reaction when you hear some of these announcements? >> Uh no. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's it's kind of a necessary step to get to that point, right? you need something that people outside of the crypto audience can immediately understand the appeal of and and the value proposition and and Hyperlquid certainly does that. Um I I think it's shown its its utility particularly in kind of the the weekend trading elements where people are looking to to price some of these assets when markets are closed. The other uh component being kind of the pre-market trading for for preipo stocks or or market trading for preipo stocks. that's a a very, you know, obvious natural fit.

And I think something like this is really important to just bring attention and capital back to the space in general in order to make all the other kind of products and and ideas that we want to to come to fruition more viable. Uh it's just the additional capital and users is always something that it's kind of needed to to kind of be the lubricant for for a lot of the growth and development. Yeah, it it feels like all the attention is coalescing around um kind of like these two themes. Obviously, AI is an extremely extremely significant when it comes to pretty much every market these days, but then you've got the entire tokenization flywheel super cycle and Hyperliquid is capturing a lot of attention there. And so you've got sort of this hype Zcash near Venice

AI like like you know foreheaded beast of of a market segment that's building and and it feels like these things are are capturing all of the attention. Um, how sustainable do you think, you know, this narrative, this trend, this thesis is is is, you know, if we're seeing equities just continue to sustain, charge on, Bitcoin and the majors are just kind of kind of just, you know, holding the line to a certain extent, how sustainable do you think this cohort of companies and and and and you know, this market segment is in the current broader market dynamic?

>> Yeah, know it's a great question. Uh I think it's it's quite sustainable for a handful of reasons, right? Uh one, the market is is kind of indicating it where you see, you know, we don't necessarily need Bitcoin to go up for these things to do well. We just need it to kind of take a a breather and as soon as that happens, you see all the focus kind of shift back to these. Um it helps that in a market with less liquidity than it had previously had. I think, you know, 10 10 was kind of that that event that drained a lot of the the appetite and and just hot ball of money that was moving around. You need it to be a handful of assets, right? Rather than uh everything going up because the firepower is is more concentrated and it allows it to

run. And I think it's particularly important for some of the more kind of momentum and and and and uh TAM type assets that are less fundamentally driven. So like a Zcash where you're, you know, you're paying it to a percentage of Bitcoin, but it is a flow driven asset and and so you need there to be actual capital flowing into it and the momentum there. Um whereas I think for some of the other ones that are more fundamentally driven, those are are a lot more comfortable to bid as they come down because you can kind of uh separate the momentum from the business. And so if you think the business is going to continue to grow, then then you're actually good to see the the asset go down, assuming you have some some cash left to

deploy because it it's uh you can pin it more to fundamentals rather than a momentum component where if momentum is lost, you worry about what happens to the price um in general and because you don't have this underlying business to kind of pin it to. you know, it it it's it's interesting to hear you talk about kind of the fundamental, you know, business models here with a lot of these tokens because it feels like there's not many of them out there. I mean, obviously, there's, you know, some of some of these, you know, crypto companies have kind of taken the realization that they do need to return to fundamentals. They do need to focus on revenue and ultimately acrewing that value back to their sh their shareholders or token holders. And I saw a great chart from from Aerrum recently where you know it was basically uh you

know this net token value flow right you you kind of spend the uh you know emissions and that's essentially an expense to token holders and then depending on how much revenue you bring back to token holders you can you can offset that and then ultimately drive greater value to token holders. You know there was a couple of names up there but there was very few with positive flows to their token. you know, Aerome was in there, Hyperlquid, of course, is in there. I think uh Pump Fun and and uh Cake Swap from BNB. Do you see more and more companies, projects kind of following the footsteps? Are are there companies out there aside from that cohort that kind of fall into this, you know, okay, there are positive flows

back to the token despite emissions and and expenses? >> Yeah. No, it's a great question. So I think one important element and and something that can be a source of kind of signal in the market is or or kind of uncovered signal. So what they're measuring is obviously emissions offset by capital flow to the token. And so there are also projects that are doing well but aren't necessarily sending money to the token yet because in a lot of cases these are still relatively early stage businesses that are better uh like the trajectory for them would be better off if they reinvested capital into the business as most do. So I think if you look at the common theme among that list, it's a lot of kind of DeFi apps which typically run with incredibly

high margins, right? And so they are able to begin to return capital to uh to token holders and and I think part of the reason other reason why it's necessary is in crypto in particular you kind of see this uh gap between equity and token holders and and you know when things are going well everyone just describes all value of the token but when things go south you really realize who has actual claim to the business and who kind of falls uh to the bottom of the totem pole. So uh I think part of what's happening in crypto is that these projects are also forced to return capital fairly early on because uh just to to signal that you know the token is in fact the value acrewing mechanism and so um taking a step back and and kind of answering your other question what other

projects uh would fit in that area I think >> um you know this is where the AI component come kind of comes into play so I think Venice is certainly one of them where they're just reinvesting a lot of of capital into the business and and um it's one that you just you need to grow that way. And I think one other one on the AI front that that's been a bit overlooked I'd say is grass. Um and and so I think part of the reason there is that there just hasn't been a lot of uh information shared by them. Um and it's it's kind of this deepen that actually made it out of the deepen death loop, right? the the deep and death loop basically being that you subsidize a network to grow it and you get it to a

point where the network is sustainable enough and has hit escape velocity and can now meaningfully generate more than it costs to to to kind of subsidize the network. And so in most cases it struggled to get there, but I think um Grass is is one of those that has gotten there. And so, you know, they they had a basically you have these sparse updates and I think that's part of the reason why it's been overlooked where the the most recent one happened in November of 2025 where they mentioned they they're doing um 12 million in revenue that quarter. I think it was around 12 somewhere between 11 and 13. And and so if you think about what Grass does, they've basically created a a residential uh opt-in network. And so the idea is um Grass allows users to

kind of contribute their unused internet bandwidth through an opt-in application or a browser extension and and through that unused bandwidth grass is able to scrape the internet. And so if you think about one of the bottlenecks to AI and and that that whole space data is is is certainly one of them and the need to constantly scrape data is a big one. um most models have exhausted kind of common crawl and and and other free sources of data and now there are other sources that they can't tap primarily because these websites block uh data center IP so you need a residential IP to actually get access to to this information and so grass has kind of created that through this network and and and I think I can go deeper down the rabbit hole of that but I think they're

one of the unique ones where they're actually profitable now because of the way that the network operates and and kind of some of the their decisions they've made to to build their own data centers, but um they're not returning capital right now and and I don't think they should. But, you know, the market penalizes them for doing so, I think, unfairly because they're kind of accustomed to some of the the DeFi models that do return capital early on, but that's not necessarily the trajectory of of typical businesses. And so this is the fundamental um question for you know businesses at large um is you know the capital that they that they are earning especially from businesses with customers with you know even even profitable customers. They're they're looking at growing their own business

not necessarily giving away you know that that ear those earnings to the shareholders directly. And so kind of zooming out from grass, but you know, keeping this theme a little bit more in general. You know, as a company progresses further and further along its adoption curve and it starts to get more customers, when would you say is the right time to, you know, switch from reinvesting some of that capital into the business uh and and start returning it to shareholders. Um, you know, obviously we've seen Hyperlid uh basically take, you know, and they've been able to grow their business with only 11 employees, right? So, they they aren't spending a ton of money uh they don't need to spend a lot of money

reinvesting into the business. They're able to basically take all of their earnings from uh the proceeds of their business and and you know, return that capital directly to shareholders. Um, but a lot of companies are not built that way. generally what is the right rationale or calculus in a founders's mind to say hey you know for every dollar that we're we're taking in you know 40% of it should be going to the business 60% should be going to shareholders what is what factors into that equation >> yeah so I mean I think the the technical correct answer would be much later than people want to hear right if if the appropriate proxy is public companies right they eventually start to do share buybacks or or or distribute dividends and these are very late stage companies,

right? And so if you look at the the the the kind of the the starting market caps of companies that actually do share purchases or or dividends, it's it's quite high. So, um and I think the reason is that as an equity holder, you know, the the idea is they're returning capital because they think there isn't necessarily a better way to spend it to grow the business. So, we're just going to return it to equity holders. like right as as an equity holder I'm either getting the money directly or I'm indirectly getting it because you're reinvesting in the business and there's appreciation and then in crypto the the issue is that uh people are apprehensive about what they actually own. So I think in scenarios where the the link between the token and

the business itself when when it's fairly flimsy, you're forced to do it earlier to signal confidence. And if you can kind of structure it in a way where as a token holder, I know that there isn't this the probability of of getting rugged is near zero, right? As an equity holder, you know what you own. And on the the equ on the crypto side, you don't necessarily have that to the same degree. I think that that's a changing landscape and and I think it'll be very positive for the industry because it'll allow these companies to be more long-term oriented with kind of their their capital spend. And so the truthful answer is is not for quite some time, but I think um in in crypto it gradually tends to happen earlier. And and so um you know I I think there's a spectrum.

So you can, you know, you can do a small amount of it, but when you're doing, you know, like what you were suggesting in a 4060 split, that that's a lot of bis money that that uh can be spent to reinvest in the business. And and the I think the the correct framework is basically imagine they have a competitor uh and they're competing in the same area and this company now gets to spend all of that money to grow the business whereas I'm sitting in something and I'm like, give me 40% of it back. I don't care if it handicaps you. Um, and then that's kind of I think like the the good a good mental model for why they're better off reinvesting.

>> The the inexperience and impatience of a lot of the investors in these tokens shows and they shoot themselves in the foot because they demand that. And the it feels like at least in this day and age, you know, crypto or digital asset investors are noisier, louder, and more inexperienced and impatient than a lot of more traditional investors. and they demand that capital returned to them sooner uh because they want to go invest into another opportunity when like I said they're shooting themselves in the foot. The the reality is the best you know the best approach would be to stay more patient allow the business to reinvest into itself greater you know build a more expansive and sustainable business and then like you're like you're saying you know return that

capital to investors later after they've been able to to reach s uh sufficient scale. So yeah, I think a lot of um a lot of teams maybe fall short of that expectation because you know that there's not proper investor alignment. Um but uh this is ultimately where we're where we're going to see some of the winners and losers start to separate from themselves. Um, you know, I I I also want to ask you, Yan, like we're we're seeing so much attention in this in this, you know, sector of assets, uh, this hyperlid Zcash Near VVV like we're we're talking to a lot of people that agree that these like this cohort is bullish, but they are still

sidelined because these things feel like they've gone up so much. For these people, what should they do? Is it a matter of like get in while you still can? like do you wait for a dip here? How how do you how how should people be reacting to uh you know some of the some of some of the market moves as the market does seem to coales and consolidate around this cohort specifically? >> Yeah. No, it's a great question. Um you probably want to do a gradual entry if you're sideline. Uh I mean if you look anytime you get any kind of dip in in Bitcoin even the strongest assets will have doubledigit percentage pullbacks. So you you like it's unlikely that we just go continuously up from

here, right? Especially in an environment where uh Bitcoin isn't particularly strong because there's now, you know, all the the micro strategy concerns in terms of their ability to continue bidding, which was kind of the big source of of of bullishness leading into the past couple of months, right? It's always been STRC repex to 100 and now you have Sailor T-wapping and and that kind of created a lot of momentum and just excitement and it wasn't necessarily purely about his T-wap but but just about the incremental bid that would come as a result of it. And so if you know there's a scheduled buyer in the space then there's a lot of kind of game theory around when you'd want to bid. But ultimately it it did lead to to a lot of buying. So, I think you kind of

have the the uneasiness of of where Bitcoin sits now and and um I think it's, you know, you basically try and want to want to try and pick your spots and and wait for these flashes of weakness on BTC and and then you get, you know, uh late leverage longs that that pile into some of these alts get flushed out and you get these entries. Uh but I I don't think there's like a perfect model. I think you kind of need to gradually move in. And if you get a meaningful pullback and and you kind of look at the the the multiple for some of these assets and and um and the positioning, then it could be a good way to kind of deploy a big slug and and then wait.

>> Yeah. You know, we we had Arthur Hayes come on the show uh earlier in the week and I mean the guy's max bullish right now. kind of flips back and forth a little bit, but he said the only thing that could stop this rally is an anti- AI presidential nominee, someone in 2026 or seven that basically comes in like an AOC and shuts it all down with, you know, some anti-AI rhetoric. It feels like the, you know, the war seems to be like kind of nearing a resolution. Do you think we get like what? So, so kind of flashing over to Bitcoin because like you're saying, these things are going to have difficulty holding up in a in a Bitcoin down environment. If we get Bitcoin

sideways or or up, these things could really start to take off in a more sustainable way. What are you seeing when you look at Bitcoin, you know, in in the current macro environment? >> Yeah. Um, it's a good question. So, Bitcoin obviously trades on in line with equities and I think equities despite them doing really well, they're I wouldn't say they're extended. If anything, you know, uh relative to earnings uh basically if you look at the multiple of S&P before the recent earnings um uh season, the multiple was actually higher earn this was just an incredible earnings season and and the the overall multiple has actually

contracted despite price being up so much. So, I don't think the stock market is particularly extended yet. There's obviously going to be the concerns around the liquidity drain of of the IPOs and and and that's a real one because it's just such a gargantuan sum of money. So, it's hard to say what happens there. But, if you can kind of continue with some strength, you assume that will not be a tailwind for for Bitcoin, but it kind of indirectly is because it it drains the attention and capital away, right? And and so there's the idea that if that market continues to do well, then the relative catch-up trade is also very interesting because you kind of want to move into something that's less crowded. And so I think assuming that strength there continues, that that should hold up well for Bitcoin on the strategy part. Uh yeah,

that that's a tricky one. I think you you kind of need him back in the market in order for there to be uh a meaningful move in in Bitcoin. um it's just too large of an asset right now and and there's too many other liquidity vacuums for uh there this thing to move meaningfully on its own. I think it needs a bit of a catalyst and and he's in a slightly tricky spot. I think um you know the financial engineering they've been able to pull off is is has been brilliant and I think the first you know hiccup was probably this uh repayment of of that 2029 debt maturity.

Um, basically they they they they prepaid uh some debt that was likely never going to convert because the conversion price was too high. But the game that he's playing right now is is one where it's about survival, right? He he's just trying to prolong any kind of of debt payments uh any meaningful debt payments. Survive as long as possible and the bet is that Bitcoin will eventually appreciate. The tricky part is his ability to survive is is is basically a function of the the market's confidence in in him and his ability to pay back this debt consistently. So going from um you know 2 billion in change cash to down to like 7 months worth of of of basically max payments hurts his credibility uh because now

everyone who's trying to buy STRC now is going to be a bit more apprehensive because you know it's it's a game of musical chairs and there are far few chairs left few fewer chairs left with the amount of balance sheet capital he has. I actually think it'd be prudent for him to sell some Bitcoin and it's like sell to buy. So you basically sell a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin that gives you a billion in cash which is basically a year's worth of STRC on 9 billion in notional. So you can you know set that aside issue that gives you the ability to issue quite a bit more than a billion in STRC. So the amount of Bitcoin you sell and use that cash to pay back the the dividend will allow you to issue much more of the underlying preferred. And so, um, that that's the

the tricky spot right now where we'll see, you know, each, uh, X date basically what's been happening with STRC, right, has been going X in the middle of the month and and you've had this this situation where it hits 100 and then there's like previously it was like two weeks worth of just him selling this in the market and raising billions, but each each time it's gotten shorter because he has less cash and there's much more of it outstanding, so it takes more to rep. Um and and so the last one it it basically he had I think like four days worth of of issuing. And so I think this one there's a chance he doesn't rep because of the um the cash outlay he made on on the bond. And so then that'll require uh him to increase the dividend,

but he's got to source that cash somewhere. And so I think all of that will be a headwind for BTC because it'll no longer be this tailwind that we always expected it to be. So I I like yeah BTC is in a in a tricky spot. I think in the long run it'll be fine, but right now, you know, the market's always looking for a bidder, a a telegraphed bidder and then and then everyone kind of rallies behind it. um especially because you have this this kind of liquidity distraction with everything happening in AI and and so um I think until you get that you know BTC kind of chops around but you know because we're we're focusing on you know a handful of assets in crypto and and so you don't necessarily need that much money to move in to get them excited uh I think as

long as Bitcoin stays flat we can have uh a pretty good alt season. >> Okay. Um, I'm excited to see the comments on this clip of sailor of of you saying sailors should be selling Bitcoin. I think that is uh I'm I'm very very curious to see how that's going to go. It makes sense when you talk about it because you can, you know, essentially give yourself some more balance sheet cash. You can use that to kind of settle people's apprehensiveness and then you can go raise more cash to buy more Bitcoin. um uh you know basically you know do one thing now but then use what you raise over a longer period of time. So yeah um and >> in an ideal world he he kind of does this thing where he basically sets aside let's say uh every billion you raise you

set aside 15% of it in an account and you throw it in money markets and you say this will only be paid for dividends. So every dollar of STRC you issue is covering its own dividend for the next year and a half and then plus whatever it earns uh in in the money market, right? So you can almost get to like two years if you if you set aside 15%. And that I think just prolongs it massively because every new issued is like liability is covered for a year and a half to two years and then you kind of kick the can down the road because that that's basically what he's doing is just how figuring out the best way the least expensive way to to kick the can down the road and and eventually hope for BTC appreciation that kind of solves all his

problems. >> It it's a it's a long road and the can is getting heavier and heavier and uh you need we need sailor to hit leg day. so he can kick [laughter] that thing further and further. Um, all right. Very, very cool on on uh, you know, Sailor and Bitcoin. It makes sense. Um, you know, obviously if we can uh, like you're saying, you know, maybe we don't get that tailwind, but if it can just hold up, the rest of this cohort can do well. Bitcoin obviously is the major when it comes to the major caps in crypto. Um the only other one when we think of majors I mean hyperlquid is increasingly in that cohort of majors but um you know ETH I I want to ask you about um as well because obviously there's treasury companies that we've come to expect a tailwind as a result of

their regulated bid um we also saw when it comes to just treasury companies in general uh sharplink is getting added I think bit mine might be added too to the Russell 2000 3000 this is sort of you know a price incentive just regular bid on on the asset also uh hyper strategy is going to get added to those indices as well. Uh when it comes to ETH you know generally are we dead like what what do we make of the situation with Ethereum now? uh before you joined I did I was kind of reading this commentary that the ICE uh president uh Jeff Spectre uh you know he was kind of describing uh his view of Hyperlid at the very very end and we know he kind of has plans for an alternative trading

system then with the New York Stock Exchange um you know he also was talking about Hyperlid he did say that you know he kind of expects one chain to rule them all or you know a a multiple of chains that are all composable with one another. Um, we've heard Black Rockck basically, you know, have a similar thesis. Um, and understanding is that, you know, uh, Black Rockck is talking about Ethereum when they're saying that and it feels like, um, Ethereum is the home for a lot of tokenized assets, but e the asset itself is just cooked. Value acrruel mechanism is broken. You know, they're scaling the chain. It's great.

Doesn't cost as much to send transactions, but it also means that there's less, you know, revenue and and earnings for the chain itself. um that they're you know can use for the burn or whatever you know mechanism that they want to pass on value. What do we make of Ethereum these days? Is it you know the chain is great, the asset is broken or is there another thesis that makes sense? >> Yeah. No, that's a it's it's a it's a great question. I think um it's hard to be very bull basically if the the tricky part is like if you're bullish ETH then or or just the ecosystem growing there are better ways to express the bet and and I think in particular because the the surface area

of of monetization has really narrowed relative to you know the kind of the thesis that was happening in in like 2020 and and what really blew things up on the DeFi front where, you know, the idea was you'd have a wide variety of apps in in every vertical that were on these L1s and and they would bring in users and gas and and and and the value of kind of sitting there and having all of that liquidity was really valuable. But what's been happening is increasingly the value is kind of concentrated around these power law defy apps, right? And so you're hyperlquids of the world and and ultimately for them it was more profitable and and more economically viable to start their own

chain. And so you have this kind of adverse selection scenario where every time something uh progresses it it kind of shifts off and and is is going to be uh looking to start its own chain and what you're left with is kind of the residual smaller stuff. And so, um, on the ETH front specifically, I think the probably the most bullish thing that can happen for them is is, uh, is Tom Lee doing his ST, his own STRC equivalent, right? And and like you have yield on on ETH and so you could actually fund it pretty meaningfully and and like he can actually raise quite a bit. Uh, the capital stack for them is very clean.

It's all equity and and so you can use the yield of all of his existing ETH to pay off quite a bit of of kind of a stretch equivalent for them. So I I I I think maybe that hasn't happened yet because he's actually been very prudent with how he's deployed the cash and so that's why he's still able to buy unlike, you know, most ads that kind of just size it all in um at once. And so um maybe I think that could be a big tailwind for it. Organically it's another tough one. um uh like the the thesis for why this should go from you know this multiundred billion dollar asset why why how you get a 2x out of it is is tough because again it just requires so much capital to move and and at a time when you know we all agree

that capital is not that deep in crypto because of you know the washouts liquidations and and kind of just attention going elsewhere. it's just hard to move that asset without um someone coming in in size to buy it. And and as a result, that has kind of negative reflexivity where you lose your incremental buyer because you just know that there isn't going to be a bigger one behind you. And so you're better off kind of speculating in some of these smaller assets that require much less capital and also have a have a cleaner path to to uh you know, a reason for why they should be more valuable than they are at the moment. And so um yeah, I think ET's in a tricky spot. I obviously it doing well would be great for everyone because of the the knock-on

effects and and you know whenever I think the market sees that it gets extra excited and and so um I think everyone would like to see it go up but it's just uh it's hard to figure out where who's going to be buying that much in size to to make it meaningfully go up. I think you'll have these, you know, periods of of people being off sides because it's often used as a as a as a hedge um and and like a pair trade uh type of thing. And so you you can you you know you have scenarios where people get squeezed and and and stuff like that. But to see a sustained move higher I think would require a pretty uh systemic shift in in kind of how capital is being deployed in crypto. And at the moment it just it kind of seems to bypass the the majors

or like the traditional L1 majors and and is it's all about trying to find the ones that are going to make the next move up rather than seeing the next 5x in ETH from here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. I mean, we've had opinions on both sides of the aisle when it comes to Ethereum. Uh, I think consensus is Ethereum, the ecosystem is doing great. Tons of tokenized assets and all these things are end up on chain. But like you're saying, it's a very difficult unless Bitmine goes and offers that stretch product, which seems to be an increasingly, you know, consensus view as well. Hopefully Tom Lee sees it. Uh, Yan, I just got a couple things left for you. Um, actually just had something come in over the wire. uh Jaime Diamond saying that uh they will not accept the current version

of the Clary Act. He says Brian Armstrong is quote full of and no one is going to bow down to this guy or that company. How important is the Clarity Act? Jamie Diamond's flipped on a lot of stuff. He's obviously, you know, building out some of his own blockchain rails. Uh Kexus is coming out of the JP Morgan ecosystem. I mean, when you hear Jaime Diamond and, you know, uh, JP Morgan take this stance again, what's your reaction? Is it, you know, just kind of a nothing burger clarity act? Is, you know, inevitable? What What do you think here? >> Yeah, it's uh, I mean, everyone's always going to be talking their own book, right? And so, I think that's that's certainly what Jaime's doing and and, um, the risk being that they want to ensure

that, you know, cash and deposits stay in banks. Um, and if you make kind of this other form of yield too accessible, it takes away from their dry powder and and ultimately a bank uses cheap capital to reinvest at higher yields and capture that margin. And so that that hurts kind of uh their source of their cost of capital. Um, it's obviously, you know, you don't want to fade him, but he's generally been bearish on on crypto from the beginning outside of like a handful of of comments here and there. on the act itself. I I think there's a lot of of back and forth on on there's like like a lot of like kind of backroom conversations and dealing and people are trying to get things uh added and removed and and so it's it's a tricky

one. I think it's net positive for it to happen more so because if you can have some structure in place if you get an environment where the SEC turns very adverse to the space then without some form of regulation I think they can cause a lot more pain. So if you can kind of put something in place some a framework where maybe it's not perfect but it still offers some uh uh framework around how to kind of think about these assets whether like how how to how to think about the issuance of them or or what you're allowed to do with them. Uh I I think it provides kind of a floor on on the regulatory risk of of a different

administration. Um I don't know how much will change if it doesn't go through in the near term. I um I I think it's it's more of a um an issue in in the long run if if uh you get Yeah. basically someone who's who's not really super friendly towards crypto. And so I think in the best case scenario, we'd see it go through. Um >> uh but I think, you know, there's a lot of hidden agendas that that are happening. And so you kind of need to look through the tea leaves and and assume everyone's kind of out for themselves on this stuff. It's crazy to to see, you know, Trump putting out truth social posts and Bessant, you know, talking about this every chance he gets that, you know, that that we will make, you know, America the crypto home of the uh home of crypto and and then,

you know, you have uh you know, the incumbents uh basically just shooting it down. Um la last thing I got for you is just, you know, generally anything that we missed about, you know, what what you guys have going on at Deli? Obviously, you know, tons happening in the markets. We covered, you know, pretty extensively Bitcoin strategy, stretched, ETH and the whole, you know, hyperlquid and and AI complex. Um, I know you guys are focused on, you know, plenty of venture stuff, lots of research. Um, definitely deep into AI as well. Um, you know, what you guys have going on internally at at Deli and, uh, what what are you guys most focused on, most excited about, uh, with respect to the current current, uh, situation out there?

>> Yeah. No, we're we're certainly continuing to invest in in crypto. I think you've seen kind of a general attrition, but um at the same time I think you know some of the stronger funds that have been here will continue to to be here and and that's great to see. Um ideally it kind of leads to more quality being funded and just helping the the external pers uh view on crypto and and kind of how it's perceived in terms of you know quality and and um legitimacy. So yeah, we're excited to to keep looking. we're, you know, we're looking at in in various DeFi and and AI, the intersection of AI and crypto as well. I think that has ebbed and flowed where it it it was pretty big early on and then, you know, it got frothy with kind of just the agentic tokens and and

all of that and and so then it washed out, but I think it's coming back quite a bit. And so there's I think there's a lot of interesting uh stuff happening as you you kind of uh the oversection of kind of inference in crypto and and tokenizing GPU access and and even on the D5 front with stuff like um uh chip um and and USDA and and I think that that's a you know a unique compelling product to to help bring liquidity to those markets in a way that that you can't do without crypto. So, it's great to see the intersection there because I think in order for crypto to really continue or do well and and continue to grow, you have to tap into the largest markets, right? And before they were purely the financial ones and and so and and gold and and just broader assets,

but now obviously AI is on the forefront. And so it's good to figure out ways to grow with that market because it also brings in a different audience and and it's helpful because I think the AI folk view crypto they they kind of poo poo it pretty significantly and we've seen that even with companies that are AI focused but have a crypto element. They they kind of catch flack. And so you know that's a stigma that would be great to to battle through. And I think creating legitimate products that can actually uh help on the AI development side is is a is a great step forward. So we're certainly looking at that. On the research side, we continue to publish content and try and find great opportunities. I think markets like these are actually really

interesting ones to find um uh solid stuff where it's not, you know, the the nearest meme token, which is is a a bit of a game of of kind of uh Russian roulette and and and a crapshoot, but rather something where it's more fundamentally driven and you can justify putting capital to work and are actually excited to see something come down because you have a fundamental reason for why you're bullish on it. And so I think these types of environments are are very uh you know conducive to both just the there's a big reward for doing proper diligence and and that's kind of what you want the space to become rather than this like shill and dump fest um which you know has really fun spurts but but burns quickly because people just

get washed out and and there's no method to the madness and and so if if it's none of that then people think that like there is no way I can win at this random meme game. But if I can spend time, find interesting projects that that are growing, I think that brings in the right type of holder that actually wants to buy things, hold and grow, and you see things appreciate and and you know, we we kind of all know the the benefits of having runners and and what that means for the rest of the market. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's currently, you know, that we've we've, you know, we've seen this before. This is honestly what separates, you know, the the the winners from the losers. uh which makes it much you know it's not as easy of a market.

You know obviously when everything goes up you can kind of just you know close your eyes and throw a dart but in this case it feels like you know it's a lot more meocratic in a certain way where you can you can do some due diligence. You can do some research and and pick something because you're right the market is a lot less correlated than it has been in the past. And so, uh, those with good fundamentals, uh, are starting to show themselves and and those with without, you know, are are kind of retrading. And so, it it feels like there's this reshuffleling of, you know, the top 100 market cap or or something like this where, uh, things are are ultimately starting to fall into place.

So, uh, it's very very cool to see. And, uh, Yan Lieberman, thank you so much for joining. Absolute pleasure. You guys are crushing at Deli. Uh and we're going to uh we're going to continue uh you know following along and uh appreciate the market takes today. >> Thanks so much for having me. I had a had a blast. >> Thanks, man. We'll see you next time. >> Looking forward to it. >> Thank you, brother. >> All right, guys. Well, we uh we aren't going anywhere. We're sticking around here. Lots that we covered today uh with Deli's co-founder. um you know the CFTC announcement reaction net token values you know will will these flows ultimately dictate which tokens go up and which ones don't market's a lot less

correlated than it has been in the past um and uh we are just seeing uh you know what is going on here uh he also gave kind of a shout to uh grass uh which I don't know about you guys but I'm a little bit less familiar with it's more on the deepin side definitely some AI components they're building out some data centers themselves. Um, we are Let's check in with the markets a little bit while we set up our next guest. Um, okay. Bitcoin retreating under 735. I think we might have gotten a little pullback on the war agreement.

See, what do we have here? Trump concludes meeting on Iran deal without reaching decision. So, he went into the situation room. He went in there with the intention of reaching a decision, twiddled his thumbs a little bit, came out, he said, "I have not reached a decision." Then why'd you leave the room, Mr. President? Trump did not reach a decision on any new deal with Iran, according to a senior administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity. Trump puts off final determination on Iran proposal.

>> Yeah. met with aids for two hours on Friday about possible ceasefire extension after suggesting on social media he was ready to make a decision. So he was ready to make a decision. He announced that he was ready to make a decision. Went into the situation room with the intention of making a decision. Something happened in the situation room that said, "You know what? I'm not going to say no, but I'm also not going to make a decision." What a What a journey this has been in the Middle East.

>> All right, we are getting our next guest set up. Ben Sarah, >> we're going to get him set up in just a moment here. In the meantime, we're keeping track of markets. Guys, I don't know about you, but can you hear me now? >> I kind of want more hype. >> Oh, maybe in settings. >> Kind of want more hype and I kind of want more >> near is up 17% this week. Hyperlid is up 13% this week. Um near to that 250 range. Didn't quite get to three bucks, but it was getting close.

Man, you guys have heard I think I think Yan makes a great point where if uh Sailor is unable to stretch his stretch product, >> uh we're going to end up >> uh you know, >> you know, if if everyone thinks something's a tailwind and all of a sudden it's not happening. It's not just a it's not just not a tailwind, it starts to become a headwind. Uh which is effectively what we're seeing play out in the Bitcoin ecosystem. uh in Ethereum. It feels like there's an opportunity to issue a similar stretch-like product, but we just haven't really seen that out there yet.

>> Um we're gonna get our next guest up here very very soon. Man, you guys heard Jamie Diamond saying Brian Armstrong is full of Pretty funny. Um okay, what do we have here? Anthropic launches a Gentic Economy Fund focused on investing in areas of crypto that enable participants agents to participate in the global economy. I think that's probably bullish for the whole AI crypto scene. Let's get Kyle Sanmani's reaction to the Mike Celig CFTC announcement. Three possible outcomes.

Everything Khi did to get to this moment was irrelevant because you can just offer unregulated perks in the USA anyways. Number one. Number two, a protocol passes the eightprong decentralization test as is written in clarity act such that you can offer per in US without >> I have a podcast. Sorry. >> Sorry about that. >> Or three, you remain a product that can attract users but not one that can be lawfully distributed in the US financial system. [sighs] >> I think one or two is probably the most uh the most likely outcome here. All right, guys. We're going to get our next guest up on the stage. Let's get him into the live room. Let's bring him up

on the show. We're ready. We were a little bit a little bit delayed here, but we're going to bring him up any moment now. And we're going to be chatting with Ben Sarah. >> We're going to get him up on stage in just a moment. He's the founder of Pulsia, an AI platform autonomously building and running entire companies. This was sort of the dream when we first had the agentic revolution of AI. Uh handles engineering, marketing, sales, support, and operations. All of this, I mean, look, we're entering the era of one man companies. Uh Jeffrey Jan and the hyperlquid ecosystem have been able to do this uh build a juggernaut with 11 employees, build one of the most

profitable companies on a per employee basis ever. I think this is the first of many and I'm excited to hear how Ben is helping more solo entrepreneurs build out these sorts of companies. Uh former background quant trading on Wall Street and entrepreneur in New York. Previously spent five years at Cloud Kitchens with Travis uh Kalanick uh who I listen to on the All-In podcast pretty frequently. Uh, and now we are entering uh, what we're believing is the solo entrepreneur era. Guys, let's bring up Ben, the founder of Pulsia. Ben, welcome to the show man.

>> Hello. How are you? >> Absolutely great. I am happy to have you on here. It's a lovely Friday. How are you doing? >> I'm pretty good. Pretty good. Busy, but good. >> Absolutely, man. As always. Um, and so, man, I mean, you know, it's just you and it's just you and your cast of agents over there, huh? Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I mean, it's like I'm trying to hold the ford and be staying solo. Uh, which is uh increasingly hard. Um, I'm very thankful to start working with like a bunch of uh SF agent companies uh agent infra companies that like helping me build a lot of the infrastructure so that I can focus on the product side and on the marketing side. But yeah, it's been it's been quite intense being solo with agents.

But I think it's the future and it's it's what Pulse is trying to do. uh empower you know everyone to become a founder uh having an AI sort of like team work for you uh and I'm living I'm living it with my customers. >> Beautiful. And uh I want to get into your customers because uh you know uh you guys are are doing amazing things. Um you guys are at $10 million in ARR uh I think over almost 10,000 companies. Um, but I have a I have a question for you first before we kind of get into the the demographics here of the companies that you work with. Um, you know, typically payroll I think accounts for 15 to 30% of a businesses you know you know take your revenue uh you know maybe

20 25% of that is attributed to payroll. You guys raised 30 million uh uh with zero employees. You guys don't have any payroll. uh what is what are you guys spending your 30 million bucks on? >> Well, there's a there's a few things, right? So, first of all, payroll is replaced by compute, right? Because AI is actually quite expensive. Uh AI runs a ton of workflows within Pulsia. Uh, of course, it it operates businesses for uh our customers. It uh it handles support autonomously. It handles uh bug and feature sort of like triaging autonomously. It uh it fixes its own bugs not always but like most of the

time autonomously um etc etc right and so it's a lot of automation and that's a lot of compute that's being used. Second of all, you know, the vision of Pulsia is to democratize entrepreneurship to make everyone, you know, what I call the n% not in a, you know, not in a negative way in like the in the masses, right? It's like the people that don't have access like, you know, I'm thankful to have access. I'm thankful to have an engineering degree. I'm I'm thankful that like I've been an entrepreneur for a while. I've I haven't been intimidated by entrepreneurship.

I've hustled. I have access to capital. But like most people don't and some most people are actually blocked by the perception of what it's going to take and what they need to to be able to achieve. Uh and Pulsia takes that barrier today. It's a product that is, you know, 50 bucks a month, which is a barrier to a lot of people, especially to try. And so, a lot of this compute uh sorry, a lot of this this this this fundraising is on the one end for compute for the company to operate faster and better. On another end for marketing to educate more and more people on like this new world and try to get, you know, the masses to adopt those tools. at least try those tools so then

they can decide if they want to be part of this new economy that's coming. And number three, try to like lower the barrier to entry, make a free version, make a lower price version, just make it more affordable. And so that costs a lot of money because obviously that means that like you reduce your margins, but it also means that like you need to invest in more infrastructure with like GPUs, build your own models to be able to actually offer abundant cheap intelligence, right? Like the Open AI and Entropy can do because they have all this capital. And so capital is not just like to hire people, it's also to be able to build this infrastructure that enables the mission.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Of course, you know, uh 15 30% of gross revenue is significant, but you know, that that opens up 70 to 85%, you know, capital is is spent on these these, you know, existing functions. Um, you know, I I got one more one more question about the fund raise and then I'm I'm very curious, you know, to get into the product and the customer set and all the all these things, your journey of being a solo entrepreneur. Um, because I want to say congratulations on on, you know, raising $30 million. It's a significant feat, but I I don't know if I should be c congratulating you or your agents. You know, I'm sure you can't do this alone, but you know, what what were some of the processes that you were able to get your agents to do uh as you were going on

this fund raise? Like what were some of the functions that they were running uh that typically, you know, a human uh is doing whether it's research analyst, you know, drafting these things? Uh what were some of the functions that that these agents were doing uh as part of the fundraising process? Yeah, I mean it's interesting because this, you know, I actually came I I had raised you know myself [laughter] a preede round like summer 2025 a million dollars that like I was supposed to spend in like headcount but I I ended up never hiring. Um and so when I started building when I built I launched it and like I could see clearly that people were very engaged with it. I was like, I need to grow it and to grow it, I need to start doing marketing stunts or like

marketing, you know, campaigns. And so the first market campaign was like, well, what if I let Pulsia just raise the round, right? And and so very pragmatically speaking, the idea was like, well, what happens if AI raises the round? Well, first it needs to be in contact with with investors. It it needs to have all the context about the company, which it already does because it's itself. uh it needs to you know I need to configure it to be connected to my mailbox so that it can answer any emails. uh it needs to it needs to have some information on me, right? So I gave it more information about what happened before the fundraising uh and and and besides that I kind of let it just reply to any email that was receiving, right?

Uh what I also did is I created this live dashboard page that it was that was meant to be the data room. So like when investors ask you questions, they're like, "Okay, they want to talk to you so that BIA could do the conversation about what's the vision, what's the road map, what's the product, what does it do, tell me some of the metrics." But then it's like okay you know what go to the live dashboard and you can see it in action and you can see the revenue numbers the exact you know number of customers number of companies number of so the idea and then you could actually chat with the AI in the live dashboard and ask it more information and so that was sort of like a full transparency built-in public thing where an AI has nothing to hide because it's like I

don't care like it's like let let me advertise what I do. Uh, and so that's sort of like how it started and like it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because I essentially, you know, I I tweeted about it and like that tweet got went semi viral. I got like 300,000 views. Then a lot of investors would email me, get in contact with Pulsia. Pulsia was telling them, "Hey, I'm raising at a billion dollar valuation." Uh, people were like upset telling other people. Other people would email me. Then serious investors started like coming in. I I uh we created a slash bossia slashdeck and to with a a full deck that Psia wrote with me and then we had Possia term sheet where people could submit term sheets [laughter]

and so this full loop like I think it's interesting because like people were just going back and forth with Pulsia at the same time the because of that more people were signing up to Pulsia and since the live dashboard was showing revenue in public people were like following the live dashboard more and more I was posting on Twitter those numbers going up and then it just like then more people signed up and then there was like uh more investors came in, more investors wanted to talk. I was overwhelmed. So I was like well thank god I have this AI responding to my emails and pitching investors and explaining how the round dynamics are because I could never do all these calls while the product was scaling and started breaking things and like infrastructure broke. So it was [laughter] a show and so you know

and so at the end of the day what happened is like all these investors were talking to me. I was not responding to anyone except a few calls here and there uh from people I knew or some persistent investors and and at one point uh you know like some investors were like okay like well they set a really high bar on the on the price and the valuation and that's sort of like how it settled really fast right it's like investors set a price they're like okay we want to invest at this much I wasn't like oh I want to raise at this price I it's more like it sort of like the the the market settled at this valuation >> and this amount of money and of course since my mission is to democratize entrepreneurship through AI. I know the

more capital I have, the more compute I have, the more marketing power I have to democratize this and it's going to it's going to take a lot of capital to reach billions of people and uh and so this is was the first step with amazing investors that are like forwardlooking um that are like that trusted me and trusted Pulsia into really trying to to change change the world for a better place, you know. >> Incredible, man. That is quite the uh quite the founder story. Um, you know, obviously this thing's running out there in the wild. It it's testing cases. I mean, it's collecting feedback. And then, you know, after all this market research, you ultimately land at a price. Uh, and this is the price where, you know, there's term sheets and and

things get closed. So, let's let's kind of dig a little bit more into the stack. So, you know, h how does it how does the product work itself work? you mentioned, you know, you're you're kind of like building models so that you can commoditize this intelligence and and offer it, you know, with a lower barrier of entry, but there's obviously, you know, uh, kind of this orchestration that you've been able to create versus different models. How out of the box is it where I can just basically say, Pulsia, I don't have an idea, but I want to make a million dollars. Like, do it for me.

Don't make make no mistakes. versus like you know there is custom setup and these sorts of things like how much does an entrepreneur need to have done or get over the line in order for them to then be ready to hire Pulsia. So I mean the the way I look at AI is that you know obviously the models that were built by that have are being built by entropic open AI to me it's it's been AGI since like end of 2025 meaning it's a models that are like can reason in a super human intelligent way uh on any topic you give it and it can use any tools pretty fluently right it's like you tell it like to use an MCP

tool it will figure it out and like act on it so The result of that is that um is that AGI is means that like you know you can use that's why Entropics valuation is skyrocketing because they sort of like pioneered cloud code TMCP skills like a whole series of infrastructure that enables agents to really be useful. >> When I saw this I saw this very early. I started using the agent SDK like in like early summer 2025 and I was like this is the future for sure. Um and so to think about pulsia it's more like okay of course anyone and like technical people can use cloud code directly and build this very custom agent workflows to to fit their their needs but when you go to

the mass market people don't know what cloud code is don't know what public cloud is they don't know what an agent is they don't they're not technical they don't know what an API is they don't know what a skill is and so the idea with pulsia is like to really dumb down every process and be very opinion ated about how to do a task so that it repeatedly can be done and it's useful and it's easy to understand for the user like what it does like because people they really just want the task to be done. They don't really care which model was used. Uh they don't really care about which provider was used. Uh they just want the task to be done and so the role the the the pulse you can think of it as an orchestration of of of agents that are that that have been told

playbooks to do different tasks. The task obviously can be make research on a certain industry and create a report. It could be like do cold outreach to a certain like set of uh target demographic and research their real email and then send an email that's thoughtful. I could be run meta ads and so there's a specific very opinionated playbook about how to run meta ads that I implemented. uh it could be like of course like build a product but like I give it like a specific database, a specific uh sort of template of a codebase to use and a specific language, a specific server. So I'm very opinionated about how to build a product which means that the user doesn't have to think about it, right? Uh they don't have to they don't have choices. They

don't have to ask cloud code. So I need to host my website. What should I do? It's like well you could do Versel, you could do Heroku, you could do AWS, what do you want? It's like >> most people are like I don't know. Just put it online. I don't care, right? And actually, like, can you just do it? Well, no, because I need an API key. What's an API key? I don't know. I don't care, right? Just take my credit card and just like do it. >> And so that's the mission of Pulsia. It's like when you It's like my deep belief is that everyone's a creative, everyone is a founder, they just don't know. And I actually spend a lot of time meeting my customers. And it's so amazing to meet people that have I never would have met because they're from different circles, different spheres,

right? And you meet them and they're beautiful people and they're smart and they have ideas and they have they have wants, they have like dreams and a product like Pulsia enables them to try. It's not like a getri rich rich scheme. It's not like I want to make a million dollars, you're going to make it. Like in 2025 I built six five different products before landing on Pulsia. Most of them didn't make any money and most of them didn't have revenue. Doesn't mean I'm a bad entrepreneur. No, I was using cloud code and cloud code I was like this is the best product in the world. My customers see Pulsia the same way. It's like >> it's like okay Pulsia enables me to try and to try once to try twice and it's all set up right and it and it also it teaches you about entrepreneurship. Oh

called outreach. I didn't know that. I I didn't know how I would do it. Oh, meta ads. Oh, I never tried actually. How do I Oh, interesting. This I can run an EGC ad on meta and etc., etc. And and the idea of Pulseia is like to have like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of agents that are specialized in doing various things so that the user can say just build rebuilt you know this you know build this idea in my head and PIA can autonomously build it day by day or or faster if you want to give it more money and more compute to for Psia to work faster because obviously you can say hey work 24/7 for for 24 hours that exists it's god mode it's like I don't know like 100 bucks or something and it just runs for 24 hours. But you can also

say, I want to choose a free version where it's like, okay, cool. I'll do a little task every day and then in 60 days you'll get your product, right? So that way people can experience what it feels like to have an AI work for you, which I think frankly it's the future. Obviously, everyone should have a Pulsia that just does, you know, builds anything they they imagine. And that's how you build a society where everyone's a builder, everyone's entrepreneur, everyone is well educated on engineering marketing finance everyone is like sort of like a a contributor to a society instead of like this thing where everyone's an employee, you know, like the visionaries became employees.

>> Yeah. >> The the dreams became data sets. >> Um and and that's what you get. you get people that are scared of being fired or scared of be becoming, you know, on welfare and I think there's a better world and that's what we're trying to do at Pulseia. >> I love it. I love it. Um I'm just curious, you know, maybe there's some success stories that you can share. Like I guess I'm curious, you know, you've got a $10 million uh ARR um you know, that's maybe like an average of maybe a $100 uh subscription. uh like what is per per month? Uh and so what is like the like how what is the average you know number

of employees or humans at like one of your customers companies? Would you say most of them are solo founders and they're they're relying predominantly on P uh Pulsia and then also like if you could just share you know maybe your top one or two test cases. It sounds like the number one is you know Ben Sarah and Pulsia like that is the the best you know example of the product itself but you know other than other than yourself what are some of the top you know two or three you know test cases for this >> of the customers of Pulsia are solo I actually introduced the team feature so that you can add another person in your Pulseia company to have sort of a

co-founder with you uh and and there's like you know a few I would say like it's in the five 10% of companies I have more than one person but most most people are solo because it's easier to start alone right it's like easier to have one idea and be getting it alone I mean not alone with with with AI >> uh in terms of like uh the the sort of like the use cases and the and the customer stories obviously most people are try starting a new company right and so uh the companies that are being created uh it's either someone has a specific idea so it's very varied ideas on like a v variety of of of of of things from AI SAS to like e-commerce to sort [snorts] of like you know

marketplaces like you know any idea someone can have um there's also like people that use it for their existing business where uh they sometimes rebuilt a software that they be used to have and then rebuild it with Pulsia and sort of like it becomes their OS for their business. Uh you also have people that use it for personal project or like just ideas. You know, you can use it for anything you want really. It's branded to be around building a company because I think it's the strongest thing that like is the most exciting for someone. But but you tell PCI anything, it will help you on doing anything because it just you will use the tools to execute autonomously on your things. In terms of like the the best customer stories, I mean it's you know the the the most successful customers on the platform

make like a few thousand dollars a month of revenue. we're not yet like at like 10,000 100,000 revenue in terms of like new companies. Um and and those companies are, you know, the companies making like that type of money. It's like it's like AI SAS type of businesses, right? And you know, obviously a lot of companies are like a month old or two month old max. Uh so it's early. I think we'll see more and more successes. Uh there's also other there's existing businesses that are actually making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on Pulsia but it's there it was an existing business they ported over and they use it as their operating system. Sort of like the way you see Shopify. It's like some people start something from scratch. They have they literally like have no user base,

completely new idea and then it's going to take a little longer to get to revenue, right? Because you I mean it's it's not crypto. It's like you know you have to build a real business or maybe you try to do new business and you pivot. But obviously Shopify also has people that come in with an existing business and they use Shopify as a platform to enable sort of like the to be the the sort of like the central hub for their business. And so some people use it like that. And so the revenues are larger, but they're not they were not made from scratch. They were like empowering an existing business and operating it sort of like for the user.

>> Yeah, understood. Ben, uh, really appreciate you joining us today. Uh, I feel like, uh, you know, this is ultimately where we're going to get, uh, a lot of new entrepreneurship and I think, you know, people are a bit worried about, uh, maybe the AI, you know, layoffs, uh, the labor market and what what could happen. But I do think if people are using this technology for their own benefit, it is ultimately going to be much more effective and helpful uh, and not overtake them. uh which I think is what a lot of people are are scared of. Um I it's also not lost on me that you know uh Pulsia is uh spelled as AI slop but backwards which I think is uh is is very very fun naming.

Uh and uh yeah I mean great work you know almost 10,000 customers$10 million in ARR. Obviously this has been an undertaking in developing the system itself and now you know you're you're helping entrepreneurs uh as well as yourself. Uh so great job. Keep up the good fight. Using AI for the right reasons and uh thank you so much for coming on today. >> Thank you so much. Have a good one. >> Absolutely. See See you again soon. >> See you. >> All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is today's show. You guys heard from Ben Sarah on solo entrepreneurship and AIEL businesses. Uh pretty fascinating stuff there. Um obviously this is, you know, it's it's make or break time. If you're not using AI on a daily basis, you're

probably falling behind uh because people are using this and they're accelerating significantly quicker than ever before. The tools are out there. They're right for the taking. You just got to go out, find them, seize them. We're going to keep you guys updated on everything that uh is out there so that you're uh fully aware of all the tools that you can use at your disposal to accelerate your own business, life, health, personal success, portfolios. Let's check in with the markets. What's going on? Are we going to have a good weekend? Oh my goodness. Bitcoin is just flopping [snorts] like a fish. Hyperlid 65 near holding up around 250. All right.

All right. All right. I think Trump wants to save this little war announcement, this peace agreement for the weekend. If I had to guess, he's going to, you know, 3:30. He's got an hour left. I don't think he wants to waste this this uh this agreement on one hour left in the stock market uh till close. I think he wants to uh open up Sunday with a fresh agreement with Iran and watch this thing rip all of next week. But obviously, crypto doesn't sleep. We're 247 over here on the rollup, guys. Have a great weekend. Keep up the good work out there. We will see you bright and early Monday.

Have a great weekend, gents and ladies. [music]