🚨LIVE: BTC Summer Lows In?! STRC @ $87?! HYPE & LIT Strong! Archetype, Streamex & AntSeed Call in

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Heat. [music] [music] Heat. [music] >> [music] >> 7.

[music] We'll see you around the timeline. Feels [music] good to be back. >> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media brands [music] in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. [music] >> Adding it to my library every day. >> Potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at Dev Connect day one here. I'll be [music] testing from space. >> [music] [music]

[music] >> Ah, [music] [music] heat. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Heat up here. [music]

>> [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. >> I'm bullish. >> HE SAID IT. HE FINALLY SAID IT. SO BULLISH. >> It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat. Heat.

[music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Heat up here. [music] Heat.

[music] Heat. >> [music] [music] >> a rollup is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top.

>> Roll up is my favorite. People >> from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. >> [music] [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music]

>> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. >> Good morning, rollup army. Roll up army. Good morning. Buenos Diaz. Bomb jia brothers. Bonjia. We are looking good here. Last night we were not looking so good. Today we're so back. It's so over.

We're so back. Welcome to the bare market. It's going to be like this for a little longer. But I think we're right right now. I think we nailed the Bitcoin not going to the goolog thesis. Stretch back almost to 90. Remember that was our bull thesis. The most asymmetrical silly bull thesis is stretch back within 10% of par. I think Sailor hit hit the sell button on some Bitcoin. I think he's buying back stretch. I think the fears are way overblown and I think we're looking good for the summer low bounce that we've been waiting for and counting on for continued strength in our coins.

And I think we're looking good here. As always guys, welcome back to the rollup. You're watching the rollup. is July 1st. Happy Canada Day to all the Canadians out there. My my parents were both born in Canada. Uh very small suburban regions of Canada. I used to go up there every summer, you know, hang out for a couple months. I was like that kid in school that like would go to the foreign country for three months and then come back to the States like one week before the school started from Florida, you know, so hot in the summer. Um so first generation American here. My parents are, you know, fully Canadian. I got the Canadian chats and the Canadian flags all over the text chats today. So, happy

Canada Day to everyone. W's in the chat. Good morning, NOC. Good morning, Freedom Guy. As always, guys, we are live from the tokenization tower, the Nest, broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, powered by our friends at Plume with their onchain asset management infrastructure called Nest Vault. We've got a great show ahead today. We've got markets, we've got charts, we've got our coins, we've got our thesises, and we have three guests. We've got uh welcome back to tower. Chanley's going to come on briefly just to talk about this news with world, the new uh Salana prediction market. Arch types partner talking about RWA's StreamX, a public company is going to come in and talk about what they're doing. And then AI supercycle with a very new interesting inference company, Ant Seed. Uh they are doing inference at

scale right now. Very kind of early stage company but doing pretty big numbers. So uh pretty stoked to be to be back in the tower. Had an insane World Cup match last night. Took our longest standing employee Alex to the game. Shout out to Predict Street for giving uh us the tickets. And I mean we saw France dominate Sweden 3 0. Mbappe two goals. I mean these guys are just the the These guys are just cut from a different cloth. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. So, good morning, Greg. Yes. Oh, Canada. Oh, Canada.

We stand on guard for thee. Let's go, Canada. All right, guys. Let's get into the show. As always, our topics are powered by our friends at Treasure. Visit treasure.io. Use code rollup10 to get yourself a treasure today. Let's get into it. Before we do, let me tell you about our stable coin partner, FRA. Building infrastructure, the future of digital money, open, stable, borderless. Visit fra.com today to learn more. Guys, it is hot as hell. It is hot as hell. It is 84 degrees and sunny. Um, there is a saying that I will not say, but uh, yeah, it is hot. Uh, it is hot in the studio. It is 79 and a half already in here, guys. So, yeah. Uh, dark t-shirt,

nice fabric, unique look. We're in good hands. But yeah, today's show will be long. Tomorrow's will be a little shorter. And then I'm flying off to North Carolina tomorrow night. Uh going to spend the weekend for July 4th in the woods with my brother and a bunch of our friends, his girlfriend, and a couple other girlfriends. So, should be fun. Um and yeah, that's my weekend plans, guys. As always, powered by Relay. Visit relay.link to start swapping today. Best crosschain swaps in the market. Let's get into the markets. Before we do, let me tell you about dinari, our tokenized equities partner, bringing any asset from the stock market on chain tradeable today. Visit dinari.org

to or dar.com to learn more. All right, guys. We got the lows. I mean, this is green, green, green. Salana up 6%, chain link up three and a half% near up 2% and Ethereum and Bitcoin up 3% as well. So yesterday we got those we got that sweep for Bitcoin down to 577 and I was in the office here at about 900 p.m. with Alex post the World Cup game and I saw the sweep happen and then I just saw massive buy pressure. Honestly, I thought we were we were going to be way up um by this morning on hype. Hype, you know, swept 62 and went all the way to 65. Came back down to 62 this morning. hanging out again at 60

647. Purr got a nice bounce. We need that thing to keep going for us. Bitcoin looks pretty good. Aeradrome looks pretty strong. Got a nice bounce when it needed. Lighter's cooling off. Lighter's cooling off a little bit, which I think is expected. Um, you know, it touched that $2 mark. They had a pretty nice tokconomics news drop. I think we're going to see more from them in the coming day or two. So stay tuned for that from us tomorrow morning on the show. Um and yeah, I mean honestly guys, Stretch is what is Stretch at? Stretch is at 88. Like I think we're good here for a bit. Might get another pullback on stretch and then it might, you know,

make its next move back up. But I think our bull thesis for the market bouncing is is happening. So now I think it's just about, you know, staying in the right positions and um staying emotionally strong because it is a bit sketchy always with Bitcoin at the lows to take positions, especially in alts. But I mean, the these tokens that we've been holding have been outperforming a ton. Venice is up a bunch as well today, 20% off the news that they're launching a or that that that they raised money at a $1 billion valuation or higher. So yeah, guys. I mean, overall, I think it was a little scary there for a bit, but I think a couple daily closes on Bitcoin above 60, a weekly close at 62, something like that. I think we get out

of the woodwork for a bit. You know, a weekly close above 63 would be amazing. We'll see if that happens. Um, but yeah, I think our thesis is playing out. S&P looks great. Um, NASDAQ looks great. Um, those are both pushing strong. I mean S&P is ready to go to new all-time highs and NASDAQ is basically at the same position. So both of those look good continued strength in equities. Um credit is expanding as per our friend Capital Flows. So as always on markets powered by our friends at Zama. Visit zama.org to learn more about what what they are doing with their confidential compute and confidential transactions on chain on Ethereum. All right let's move into the news. Before we do, let me tell you about Near and Near.com, your home for building,

discovering, and using apps on chain. One account, no borders, your financial life, all onchain. Visit near.com to learn more about what they're doing there. And guys, Andy Constant has been evaluating Hyperlquid. He has been talking about crypto a lot more in the timeline. This guy is a large uh basically strify asset manager. I think he trades his own book, maybe some clients assets. I would imagine his AUM is in the eight figures to nine figures. And so, uh, he's been paying a lot of attention to hyperlquid lately. He's been paying a lot of attention to tokenization and to what's happening in this kind of category. And so, here he

says, what if holding trifi and real assets on chain is not something that anyone really cares about and decentralizing is just a tin hat myth. There are plenty of anti- fiat stores of value without Bitcoin or crypto. Existing payment rails are fine as is, except for a small cohort of tech enabled unbanked transactions and the ones who need to avoid KYC. Traditional exchanges uh will meet all DGEN gambling and 247 trading demand. And so he's basically refuting the entire the entire thesis for uh tokenization per stable coins prediction markets right here.

Like he's basically saying, "What if all of this stuff is being built and no one really cares about trady and real assets on chain? No one really cares to hold Bitcoin because you can hold gold. Uh stable coins don't need to exist because uh existing a wire rails are fine and only a small cohort of the world needs stable coins and people who need to avoid KYC. And then what if PERPS don't really need to happen in a decentralized context? And what if the CME and the CBOE and NASDAQ and everyone else comes out and is able to meet the demand? Then why do we need why do we need tokenized assets, stable coins, purpose?

Why do we need crypto rails? And I just think Andy is just so wrong here. He's just so wrong here. it. The practical efficiency and financial access of crypto is enabling a far more um capital efficient financial system from the ground up. It's enabling market access from previously um not accessible regions of the world to trade US equities to invest into US dollars and earn the sofur rate. It is enabling folks like ourselves to trade 247 and to express our market views in a market that is so much smaller and has so much more upside than the traditional market.

It tokenizing all of the assets in the world that are going to be coming on chain is going to enable them to have a far more efficient uh ability to be traded and for price discovery to happen for these markets. It's going to unlock new markets, for example, inference markets and compute markets. The derivatives for compute are going to happen on chain. They're going to happen 24/7 and they're going to happen on chain. So, new market creation, new market access, financial efficiency, a young generation wanting to invest and get a lot of upside in a market that isn't overly dominated by boomers, and a very loyal, deep tribalistic nature to the libertarian um and anti-state, anti-entralization

community. So, sure, Andy, I get your perspective. I understand what you mean, but this is a fun hypothetical, and obviously I'm biased here because my entire career and portfolio is betting on this to not be the case. But I don't think that this is the case at all. And I don't think I don't think that people even understand what's happening with tokenization, stable coins, and per. I'm just glad that Andy does seem to get it and he does seem to understand the benefits. That's why he put this tweet up. So, good tweet, good hypothetical, completely disagree and completely would assume that this tweet

would be proven wrong within less than half a decade. All right, let's keep it rolling into Yano here. Yo, we hear strange strong move for ETH today. That [ __ ] should be dead already. Okay, interesting. Uh, chain link again. Will the value of cruel question be covered? It's going to be a really short segment, so I doubt it. Um, strange song ether will be fine. The one-year chart on lighter. Yeah, bullish, man. Bullish. Bullish. All right. It took us five years to realize not everyone needs their own chain. Let's not spend another five years to realize not everyone needs their own stable coin.

hole. So guys, if you were watching the rollup for like the last two years, you remember we went on like this modular bullish phase where we were talking about the expansion of L2s, the expansion of new chains and thinking about how how this is all going to work, right? Thinking about the scaling of these ecosystems and thinking about the kind of specialized need for different blockchains. We were just wrong. Like we were just flat out wrong. Like there is a massive consolidation happening in the chain landscape. massive. I mean, ETH Salana you know, insert a couple more here.

Robin Hood chain I think is coming out. Um, I think I saw that I think we covered that on Monday. I think that's coming out like this week. So, like there's a consolidation happening of chains and we don't need everyone does not need their own chain. In fact, everyone needing their own chain kind of defeats the whole purpose of composability that blockchains bring. So, I think this is kind of like a funny tweet. And on the stable coin side, when it when it came to launching your own chain, the economics were such that you were able to generate fees, launch a token at a higher valuation because you're a blockchain and you know, you had this kind of infrastructure premium that doesn't exist anymore. It's really just more of an application and revenue premium now. And so why people are

launching their own stable coins is because they've seen the success of Tether and Circle where you get a couple billion dollars in your stable coin and you don't have to pass back yield and so you're earning three to four% on $5 billion annually and there's your business and there's your profitability and so people are very clearly seeing this move to launching the stable coin as a very easy economic win. Problem is a lot of these people are going to find out what the same thing that people who were trying to launch chains found out which is that at some point that you you reach this commoditization point where the market is just saturated with chains and saturated with stable coins and your

stable coin doesn't surpass $200 million of TVL because nobody cares to use yours and then the winners just kind of um become the winners, right? and they kind of amass the majority of the TVL and of of the yield and of the profits. So, I agree with Yano here. I think he has a good take and I think that I also don't want to see stable coins launch for the sake of it. Yoyo, just joined. What's up, new type? Are you guys going to talk about World XYZ? Yes, and we have not talked about it yet, but I believe we are about to talk about it. Um, we're going to get actually William up. um and and we're going to get uh him as part

[clears throat] of the show [snorts] and we're going to talk about what's happening with the world. Before we do, let me tell you about Infinifi, building DeFi infrastructure for simpler on access to onchain yield, liquidity, capital allocation, higher yields, no leverage. Visit infinifi.xyz to learn more about what what they're doing there. Everyone's sing to tempo like this is the kingmaker in the industry. Defi dad coming out hot. Guys, what is your opinion on Tempo? Tell me in the chat what you guys think about Tempo. Um $15 million of total value lock stable coin market cap 31 million.

Um and yeah, obviously not a lot happening. Um 25K in daily volume. Um, and whether or not we even need this, $215 in fees, $0 in revenue, $7,000 active addresses. So, there's two parts to this. There's Tempo's early and obviously they don't have a lot of traction in this bare market and obviously there's more to come from them. And then there's the why should we use Tempo when we can just use Ethereum, Salana, Tron, Plasma, Arcs launching, that's another competitor.

So, I have zero stake in tempo in tempo. And if I did, I would probably defend this a lot harder. But since I'm just kind of looking at this from afar, I would say they have a lot of work to do. But I would also say that these stats don't really accurately represent the like what's happening behind the scenes. Like I think what's happening behind the scenes in Tempo is that there's actually enterprise adoption happening, but I don't know if it's necessarily reflecting in DeFi Llama. So yeah, these guys have a lot of work to do. Their brand also had like that highly highly like, you know, I don't know, it was like that sage branding where it's like the best kind

of like knowledge like higher power vibe. Honestly, I think people have just stopped caring >> embarrassing >> about tempo a bit. I think they've stop I think people have stopped caring about a lot of things and I don't think it's a tempo specific thing, but I think that that that they're doing really great work and I think that as someone who wants to see this industry succeed, I think you want to support them and you want to see them win. So, we'll see if the corpor chain is the end all be all. Personally, I'd rather see this on a permissionless public chain, but we'll see. We'll see.

All right, guys. So, New Type is asking about world. What is the story behind Tempo? I mean, they launched this chain and Stripe is like their big backer and they're basically part of Stripe and they're very early on. And so the story is that they have a very nice distribution wedge with Stripe and a lot of potential enterprise B2B deals and that there's a lot to have, you know, to kind of potentially see there. So that's the story. All right, guys. We're going to talk about world launching as Salana's number one prediction market.

So I think this is something interesting. We actually have a special guest for this part as well. Uh we've got William Riley, the head of of CFI and global sales at Chainlink. And so uh we're going to talk about what is happening with World and get into it. So let's go ahead and get into the segment with World. Zama has 40 million in total value shielded, 14 million in Morpho Vault, curated by a steakhouse finance grade A, and they're making moves in RWA Sleeper. Okay, I like it. I like it. All right, let's get into this world uh prediction market news here. So, world launches as the the Salana prediction market. Will,

welcome to the show. Good to have you back, buddy. Um, world launched as a fully onchain prediction market built directly on Salana and accessible through Phantom. Users can trade outcomes tied to crypto prices and the 2026 FIFA World Cup. Every position, trade, and settlement uses real Salana liquidity rather than an off-chain order system. and chain link is providing the primary data feeds for fast market uh resolution and the platform uses uh phantom stable asset cash uh for lowcost trading and automatic redemption. So Leo, if you just kind of scroll down through here, we'll be able to kind of read through this. Will man uh welcome back to the show. Good to have you.

That's the context. Obviously prediction markets are hot. We were talking about this in the tower just a couple weeks ago. World Cups heaving. I was just at the game last night. It was epic. Um, you know, you see all the prediction market talk overall. I mean, for lack of a better term, sports gambling with the the young generation is growing rapidly. Predictions kind of tangential here. Talk to us about this, man. What what is world? Um, and kind of what's your read on Salana launching their own kind of prediction market? >> Yeah, what is world is a great question that we were asking him for roughly over a week. Um, so I think maybe you saw some of the tweets come out.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I think we even we kind of touched on this, Andy, that, you know, the big ecosystem that's missing um, last time we spoke, the big ecosystem that's missing a a really solid uh, prediction market product is the Salana ecosystem, which is a a natural fit for uh, a bunch of folks who are into into memes and taking uh, you know, quick hits on um, you know, Salana. um you this world is being accessible via the likes of Phantom. Um and you know we're really excited to become the the Oracle layer 4 uh world in their prediction market. Um right now we're we're powering their their FIFA

World Cup markets as well as their updown markets. And you know the reason why world and again I think kind of just expand on what we touched on the last time we chatted these these types of prediction markets are coming to Oracle um an oracle layer such as chain link is they need highly reliable and scalable infrastructure to run these markets. You look at a team um like the team behind world is very well known for order matching and creating some of the best onchain um order matching systems in specifically in the Salana ecosystem but also in the DeFi ecosystem. That's that's their focus. That's their bread and butter. they want they need a reliable system to scale upon and that's

where they you know we've been working with them for for many months now um you know scoping out their integration system help developing the Oracle layer and this really just allows us to accelerate their growth um from uh you know day one you know which begins today. >> Beautiful. Beautiful. And so when it comes to world kind of launching here with the um world cup markets as well as the up down markets part of this is fast market resolution right because from the user perspective like when I'm using poly market or koshi or whatever I'm I'm typically uh like in the world cup right for example these games are like an hour

apart and sometimes they start uh you know sometimes there's two in the same time and so it's like for entertainment man purposes, people like to roll over these predictions quickly, right? Like you hit one or you lose one, you want to keep going. >> Um what is fast market resolution mean in the context for chain like here? >> Yeah, so fast market resolution, you're absolutely right. People want to get back into the game. um any or or any prediction market that's using um kind of like a legacy optimistic oracle is um you know one of the resistant factors is that they have to wait for the humans involved to all come to consensus and then the payout can happen. This takes anywhere from 45 minutes to two hours

depending on the market type. Um I was even speaking to uh one of one of my fellow friends and they're using um a prediction market that has you know that leverages this type of Oracle infrastructure with the optimistic layer and he likes to play um some of the props up on in in the first half of the game. He said you know he was telling me he said well if I if I land a win in the first half of the game I can't take that money back and put it back into the system until the game's already over. I I pretty much wait for the game to conclude before I can even get my first half bet back uh my position back. So, um this is where Chainlink's um deterministic oracle setup allows for uh

resolution to happen within minutes of the game ending um with high confidence. We check multiple data sources from data providers to the order books itself and look for multiple matches to provide this immediate um resolution factor. Not only is it a better UX, but it's also better for the prediction markets that uh themselves, these platforms, as they get a um a higher uh availability to money velocity, which naturally increases the volumes that that uh happen on their prediction markets. >> Yeah, I love it. I mean, just kind of like last thing here, more more broadsp speakaking, obviously you've got Poly Market, Khi as the leaders of the prediction market world. Um, and then when you think about kind of other chains launching prediction marks, it's

kind of an interesting uh predicament here for Salana where they they're like, look, we could probably aggregate, you know, these into our wallets and and have distribution that way or we could, you know, launch our own and and and try to grow our own user base here. What's your like like what do you anticipate from um prediction markets like world? we're obviously starting, you know, much smaller. Um, when it comes to kind of launching on Salana, does this just then kind of become like the de facto Salana prediction market? And is this something that maybe you could see, you know, start to happen across other uh, you know, L1 and L2 ecosystems as well?

>> Yeah, for sure. So, I think you're going to see definitely a continued proliferation of prediction markets coming out um, month over month. And I think as everything matures, world will establish themselves as the de facto prediction market within the Solano ecosystem. I think they have all the right players behind them within that ecosystem to make that a reality as well. Um, you look at, you know, Poly Market's not going any anywhere. Koshi's not going anywhere. Um, world is is kicking off and establishing themselves today. I think what we're going to see is in the the matured state of prediction markets, you're going to have your clear-cut winners, but they will be clearly uh available in certain

ecosystems and in certain uh regions. So, just like we see um different regional adoption or different um kind of market types or structures across different blockchains, we're going to see this in different prediction markets. And then if you want to look at prediction markets similar to exchanges in the world um you still have you know by Binance is huge but OKX is still massive as well. Coinbase does quite well you know and you still have players like Kraken and Gemini. So um and they all provide the same services right they're just in different uh regional ex asset assets points and um it's just something that um people will have optionality for. So I think World is

going to do a phenomenal job and we're really excited to be partners with them on this launch. >> Love it. Uh World's also using uh Phantom here, Chain Link. Someone is curious about other other companies that that they may be using obviously Salana. Do you have any insight on that? Any other partners from the world side? >> Yeah, so I think they uh from the best I know is they have um a phenomenal relationship with one of the largest market makers in the ecosystem. Um I don't know if I can name names but >> I think they're quite well known. Um and I I'm going to guesstimate that there is uh many folks within the Salon ecosystems that will integrate as a

front-end provider. So just because you see Phantom as a go-to place today, World will have their own front end and I I think you're going to see dozens of others also have their own front end as well. >> Love it. Well, congrats, man. This is awesome. I think this is the one of the first iterations of actually putting sports data on chain. So, uh, congrats and this is a whole new kind of uh, territory for for for the entire ecosystem. >> Fantastic. Always a pleasure, Andy. Uh, thanks. >> Cheers, buddy. Quick one today, but thanks for coming. >> No, anytime. Have a good one.

>> Cheers, buddy. >> Cheers. Byebye. [cheering] >> All righty, guys. The block says that ST or sorry, Standard Charter is [ __ ] bullish right now. I mean, they're coming out and they're saying A to what do they say? A to 3500. I think that's what we read last time, right guys? A to 3500. Uh, standard chartered is saying Morpho is going to 33x to $60 by 2030. Guys, I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I'm telling you guys, we are underestimating how bullish these banks are on our primitives. Like they are they know they're going to bring just

billions of dollars of tokenized assets and stable coins on chain and they know they're going to deposit them in protocols like Morpho and a like guys we are as much as this sounds absolutely [ __ ] right now. It's 33x. It's like deep bare. Nobody can see this thing. Dude, Morpho trades to $10 and then what? It's a 6x from there. It feels like it's it's a pitching wedge, you know. And so the bank cites morpho vaults and defy lending expansion as primary drivers for the projected valuation increase. Why guys? Why? Because the amount of tokenized assets and stable coins that are coming on chain is going to explode and they will live on Morpho. Morpho needs to figure out their tokconomics though. Uh the

only reason I don't own Morpho in size right now because I would love to is they don't redirect any meaningful amount of revenues back to the token and there is just just not a clear value acrruel mechanism for Morpho the asset. Freedom guy says I've I've been saying we're super early just back it up. Yeah, I feel you. Uh asked if there would be an integration with PERS and Hyperlid. I think they're still trying to figure that out. I'm not exactly sure what the Oracle integration pipeline is right now for Hyperlquid or Lighter actually. So, Bitcoin's pulling back a bit. 597. We need this thing to hold up here. We need this thing to hold up

here, guys. All right, let's keep it rolling. Um, into the next piece. I just thought that this was sick. This was awesome to see for for them. Um, and we need to see more of this. I mean, we need to see more more bullishness from banks and from people inside the industry as well. I mean, come on. Um, let's get into daily equity, guys, because semiconductors are going through a bit of a reshuffleling here. I think it's important to cover it as always. Powered by our friends at Let's get into the daily equity segment of the show today.

>> [music] >> US chip stocks are on historic run. The semiconductor index, the Philadelphia semiconductor index has outperformed the S&P 500 by 85 percentage points in the first half of this year. I was at a bar about three weeks ago for the Knicks game. Maybe it's about a month ago and I was asking my buddy who works at Blackstone which is obviously a massive, you know, financial services company. He probably makes like 400k a year. He's like 27. Absolute legend. Um and he's like, "Yeah, man. Um I am all in 3x levered semiconductor ETF." I don't know how he's doing right now. Let's let's check that out real quick.

Semi what is it? XOXOX. I mean, this thing looks pretty topped out, but I mean, it's just insane. I mean, how can you fight it? Um, this would exceed the previous record set by the dotcom bubble in H12000 by 15 percentage point. It is is up 94% in 2026 compared to a 9% increase in S&P 500. Both of those are still just insane. S&P and SOX being up those amounts. SanDisk has scored 700 764%. Micron over 300%. The US chip stock boom is rewriting the record books. You scroll down a bit. I mean, you see the absolute outperformance here. The best first half versus the S&P ever. Ever.

Ever guys. I missed it. I missed this trade. I missed it. I missed Micron and I missed semiconductors. I missed memory as well. Completely missed it. Actually, um that guy Greg on Twitter, um he's got like a weird looking PFP. He put up this post about the cage and how the cage has caught a lot of people. And unfortunately, a lot of us are probably stuck in the crypto cage this first half of the year when really our time was better spent throwing our capital on the AI stocks. I should have done it. I had I had a good bit of

capital in my brokerage account. I should have done it >> and now I just don't think it's I think it's too late now. >> I'm not FOMOing here when when crypto looks like this and I have a lot of conviction in hyperlquid lighter Bitcoin select assets. I really want to see more folk get their tokconomics dialed and it's a it's a it's a fat shove. I don't think I don't even think that that they need to necessarily but if they can it's a shove. It's a big shove for sure. That's our daily equity guys. Semiconductors are leaving the S&P behind. Insane first half performance. I am not buying here.

I'm not shorting. I'm staying away from this trade. I think it's been very very I think it's been ran through. Yeah. So XL, I've been invested in Link for over six years. Simply disappointing. Unless they have Monopoly. I don't see it happening. I think that I think Link's going to do well. We had the um virtual baking guy come on the show and talk to us about how um Link is a digital commodity as per the SNC rules. So, I I think it's going to be just fine once clarity gets through. All right, guys. That's our daily equity powered by our friends at Dinari. Um, as always, great great friends at Dinari. Let's keep it rolling into the next piece. Before we do, let me tell you about LeFi, our premier crosschain partner. Uh, universal market access for digital

assets. Visit lee.fi or jumper exchange to learn more. Guys, Lighter is doing their end of Q2 investor call on Thursday, July 2nd. That is tomorrow at 10:30 a.m. Uh, it'll be an update from their founder, Vlad, and a Q&A session. As you guys know, we're big lighter bulls here. Um, and think that that this category is going to massively expand uh in the coming years. Uh, there's a Google form to fill out. Would highly recommend filling it out. I know that Edward in the chat and a bunch of you guys are bullish on lighter and are holding. It is one of our core holdings.

Um, definitely want to see what's coming from this. Obviously, they just had that uh that news about buybacks that sent the token to $2. And just like more generally, guys, I think this is what has to happen for the industry and projects like like lighter are setting the standard here where it's like, hey, look, we're going to do a quarterly investor call. We're going to be very transparent about our finances, about our token economics, about our roadmap, about our plans. We're we're probably going to launch some sort of like partnership and news around it. And we're going to make it a marketing moment and we're going to make it a community moment. And more teams need to do this. More teams need to have an actual investor relations setup that does quarterly calls that is

very transparent about their finances and has a CEO taking questions from the audience and actually running like a 60 to 90 minute quarterly investor call. These tokens are going to start to look more and more like equities. And I think the the projects that are actually going out and doing that and and kind of pushing that trend forward are going to get the benefit from the market reaction. Like I don't want to bid any project that isn't doing stuff like this or that isn't fully transparent. They're not investable. They're not investable. If I don't know what I own, if I don't have a the founder answering community questions, being transparent, doing transparent economics, then I don't want to invest in the project. And so I think this is going to be a great investor

call. Might be some surprises, might be some bullish news, and I just think that that this type of stuff is going to continue to set the standard for the space going forward at large. And so I'd recommend guys hopping in that call, checking it out. Uh especially if you're holding the token. Buying our select quality coins now is exactly like buying Apple Nvidia Microsoft Amazon Google in 2002. Our 20year upside is incalculable. A,000x, dude. [ __ ] [ __ ] Music to my ears, man. Let's go, Greg. Let's go.

We're still early, man. We're still so early. We're still so early. We're so early. We're We are winning. We are so early. Guys, we've got our first guest, Dimmitri Baronzon, a partner at Archetype who put out a amazing RWA report. I'm going to pull it up here as well, guys. So, so I have it front and handy. And we're going to talk about exactly what we've been talking about, which has been this tokenization thesis and how this is going to explode.

And it's going to explode. And Demetri has a very interesting kind of like evolutionary thesis here for like how stable coins are going to lead to the rise of um RWAS and how that's going to lead to the tokenized equities and how this all kind of comes together. And so excuse me there's kicking hard. um he basically wrote a piece that proposes a taxonomy for the different types of RWAs, discusses the adoption sequence of them and outlines the issues that are preventing the continued adoption of them. So I think it's going to be a really insightful piece. Lighter and hype, just like Pith and Link, remind me of the cola wars of the 70s.

Coke and Pepsi both did well, but Pepsi was the much better ROI. Wow. Yo, that is crazy. That is crazy. So, Pepsi outperformed Coke in the 70s. >> Wow. >> Interesting. You could argue that Pepsi is lighter and that Coke is hyperlquid. Greg is on point. I agree, Greg. I'm with you, man. I'm with you. All right, guys. I think that was it on the little Bitcoin dump. I think we go above 60K and we stay above 60K for a while now, guys.

And I think that's going to bode very well for our Coke and Pepsi bags. Summer bounce, baby. [applause] Summer bounce is coming. The Bears were telling us that Stretch was going to zero. And what do we do? We told him to go home. We told him to go home. All right, let's get Dimmitri up. We're going to get him back in the live room. Let's get him up on the show and let's get this party started here. I'm actually also going to pull my screen up. uh throughout the show and we're gonna roll through his piece. I I I think there's a lot to kind of unpack here uh from the graphic side as well that he put out. And so um yeah, let's get into it. Let's get let's get

Dimmitri up. It's been a while since I've chatted with him. Um Demetri is a partner at Archype VC. He leads research and investments in crypto infra deep in DeFi and RD ways. previously a research partner at 1KX, held roles at Bowlinger and Koi Fund, Cal Blockchain, and Berkeley alum. Uh he's known for his clear writing on stable coins and backing early stage projects for the onchain economy and whatever else Claude is going to tell us about Dimmitri is what we're going to tell you guys about Dimmitri because that's the world that we live in. We don't think for ourselves anymore. We use these LLM as our brains. Welcome to the future, guys. This is the This is the dystopian future that you that you guys invested in. Dimmitri, welcome to

the show. Good to have you back, man. Uh love the article that you wrote. It's good to see you, man. >> Good to see you. Thanks for having me. >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's good to see you, man. Um man, so obviously this is happening like this being RWAS, this being tokenization. I'm kind of thinking about this right now as tokenization, stable coins, per like these are like three exports of this industry that are all like interconnected in various ways and contributing to the rise of tokenized equities on chain stable coins, tokenized deposits and far, you know, and other asset classes as as well. And we're just seeing all of these right now explode in attention, in value, in mind share, and in adoption.

And so you kind of have this thesis of like this evolutionary view of how this kind of is going to happen and so just want to lay the landscape here for you and maybe you can just give us some highlevel context of your thesis as far as what is happening in the tokenization market today. >> Definitely. Um so two things one is that as you know this is not a new topic. You know, this has been something that the industry has trying to to do for over a decade. And so from Tether and Circle launching, I mean, that was like 2014. And so, a lot of things kind of went right around stable coins to get to where we are today. And so, my claim is that RWAs

are way more broad than just a tokenized asset. It it also says stable coins are a type of RWA. And I make the claim that the order of operations of adoption of other RWAs will generally follow those that have the characteristics of what made stable coins attractive in the first place. >> Got it. Okay. And that is that attractive uh nature of stable coins, whether it being the 247, the global access, the efficiency, the cost, the speed, all of these things, >> all those things. Um other things to mention fully transferable generally a relatively high quality issuer

uh roughly US government. Um short duration I think is particularly important. Um, it is highly liquid, basically instantly redeemable. And so you can start to look at the landscape of RWAS, which I consider them to be both financial assets and physical assets, and you could start to map which ones actually resemble those properties. And I think that is going to be the thing that makes onchain capital and off-chain capital going onchain most comfortable to kind of like allocate to.

>> Got it. Okay. Okay. And then in this you've kind of formulated a taxonomy and then we'll get into kind of some of the roadblocks and some of the uh kind of broader thesis here in the second and third order consequences. But I'm going to pull the taxonomy up on the screen here for the audience to have a look. And you kind of laid out it's almost like a a a market map here for RWAS. And you can have you have uh financial assets, you have uh physical assets as pretty much like the main two categories and then there's subcategories here of private credit, debt, equities, funds, etc., etc. Under physical assets, you've got commodities, real estate, collectibles, GPUs, etc. So, you're kind

of bucketing this into physical assets and financial assets. What Let's start there. Why? What? I I you know, you kind of just explained, but why did that make the make the most sense? >> Yeah, I think uh it's probably unintuitive for a lot of folks to think about RWAs as something more broad than financial assets. And I wanted to call out things like, you know, Pokemon cards. Like I consider those to be RWAS if the card is tokenized on chain. And so I think like that framing is also important when when thinking about exactly what you're tokenizing. I think the other element is there's generally different properties depending on

whether it's physical and um uh or or financial. And I think there are nuances that you need to think about either as an issuer or as a potential holder of these assets that I think has um effectively like an impact. And so, um, I really tried to like broaden the framing, um, which I I think is important for for folks to to think about. >> Okay. So, so some some kind of like specific questions here about some of these categories. Um, we had Carl from Sixman Ventures and he kind of talked to us about this tokenization spectrum. And his thesis was basically like there's a spectrum of value unlock based on different asset classes that is more or

less valuable to tokenize. So his thesis was basically it was almost like a risk curve, but it wasn't. It was more about it was more of like a liquidity curve. And on one side of his barbell, if you will, he had stable coins and tokenized deposits being the most, you know, one of the most valuable assets to tokenize. And then on the other side, he had um another very liquid asset class being equities and like tradable commodities. And then in the middle he had kind of like some of the things that you have here. Real estate, uh, venture capital, um, maybe, uh, uh, GPU is probably not so much, private credit, debt, some of these much longer dated asset classes,

things that mark to market once a quarter, twice a year, things that aren't so liquid. And so his thesis was that tokenization is far more beneficial to assets that are marked to market more regularly are more liquid and are basically traded more than the kind of assets that are far less um like exchange. They're more of like buy and holds or they're like longer term less liquid you know you know less uh you know like rather than a collectible it's like you put a fiveyear venture capital check in you're expecting your liquidity in five years.

Sorry, Demetri. One sec. [music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> And we're back, guys. I see you in the

chat. It it froze for a sec, but we are back. Um, and Demetri, you were basically saying that you think it's a it's a relatively fair mental framework, but in the way that you laid it out, it was a bit, you know, a bit different, >> right? So, what I'm saying is that there are going there will be some assets that will be more difficult to tokenize. And a common misconception is that by tokenizing it, you remove the issues or the characteristics of the underlying market. And I think a a good example of this is real estate. And there were many attempts at this and kind of making the claim that tokenizing um a piece of real estate will magically make it more liquid. I don't think that

this is the case. Um the uh the other issues that we do see are things like private equities where you tokenize but there are a lot of nuances around transferability restrictions. This can be like roofers. It can be in the uh corporate charter or or or bylaws. Um and I think that there are those nuances that make it more difficult to tokenize. But I also think let's put it all on chain. I think there's still value propositions regardless of the asset that I think makes it valuable to kind of like have blockchains as this kind of like black

hole or or like sync for a number of different assets over the next decade. >> Yeah, totally agree. And I mean I I'm gonna ask you as well kind of like how you think about what the second and third order effects of that. How do you position as an investor? You know, we saw Standard Charter put a 60x on Morpho or 30x on Morpho today and they did the same thing with a last week. That's kind of been part of our thesis. But before we get into that, um I one category here that I think is particularly interesting is this uh GPUs tab. And so in this tab that that that I found to be something that's particularly interesting is tokenizing uh compute and then having like financialized compute markets. Uh

just curious if you guys have done investing in that category because I think a lot of what we've talked about and what what we see talked about is is like the access is the access problem like oh you know global investors want to get access to these assets that's great they you know they can hold stables they can um you know blah blah blah but I think like what is really interesting is this next order of like creating new markets because we have 247 global rails we have permissionless dexes and perexes, we can literally tokenize assets and create new markets instantaneously which would require filings and ETFs and etc etc in the traditional world. So when it comes to creating new markets such as like the

financialization of compute um and there's obvious reasons for this you know hedging your inventory or if you're a inference provider you can kind of go long and short based on what you think um the demand may be in a coming quarter. talk to us about how you think about the creation of new markets um as it pertains to kind of this kind of uh onboarding of >> RWAS. I think it is fascinating. Um the dynamic over the next uh decade is absolutely this insatiable demand for compute and um compute energy. I think those are all fundamental inputs into um intelligence effectively. Um we have an

investment in a company called Odin. Um uh they're not tokenizing compute. They're uh they're more so aggregating heterogeneous compute resources for both uh training and inference. When I think about tokenizing compute, the first thing that comes to mind is what is the fungeibility of the compute resource? uh is an uh a 4090 fungeible to an H100. Um if if they are not fungeible, how do you start to build liquidity in these markets? And so I think there's a lot of known unknowns, but this is definitely an area we're looking at and I think it's quite an interesting opportunity

for folks looking to build something in the space. >> And what about alcohol? You've [snorts] got alcohol in here, which I anticipate is like actual booze. Um, what what are these companies doing here? >> Companies are trying. They're they're they're I think a lot of this I think the purpose also to kind of like broaden the landscape is to show that there's a lot of experimentation here and so like things will break >> um along the way. Um but there are attempts to say like what kinds of physical assets can we actually bring on chain. I think one example of of of one of my favorites um they're they're still in stealth, but they're um and it's not a tokenized asset per se. It's a vault,

but there's these um low production oil wells in uh in the US called strip wells. And uh these are owned by small uh like families, mom and pops in in in like rural Texas. and uh they don't have enough money to upgrade these wells, but if you do put some capex into it, you could 34x the production. Um and it's often an overlooked sector for traditional private credit firms because they're simply too small. Uh but the nice part about using, you know, blockchains and these kind of like global capital rails is it gives the ability for capital to flow into opportunities that might be overlooked by traditional capital markets. and um

you know they ran a few pilots um they are roughly looking at uh 55% return over a year um and that's quite attractive you know and and I think um I I also have this concept called like the yield fairy so it's not real um there is no free lunch there's always like implicit risk in in in what you take and you need to think about are you seeing this opportunity because they could not have uh sourced that capital offchain or is there actually an important reason um uh why it's enabled by blockchains and stable coins?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was always the question is like um all right, you know, we're going to tokenize this, but then what you know and why, right? And I think that question is starting to be answered, right? because you can see like you know even just if it's just oh you can trade the 247 version of it on pers or you can trade it on spot okay then that's why you know and we haven't even gotten really to like the DeFi primitives enabled around like tokenized equities for example or tokenized funds or commodities and so in this you kind of have this like waterfall here stable coins started it and then it's you know going all the way down to stocks funds commodities and this is part of like your evolutionary

thesis which we for we also firmly agree with we've been saying we kind of uh describe it as we started with very high quality non-speculative assets that stable coins T bills etc you know deposits and then we move all the way down into you know you've got asset back credit and then you get into priv or uh tokenized equities and then commodities and then private credit and it's kind of like this risk curve evolution from our perspective in terms of speculative uh versus non-speculative and so that's kind of how we've been framing it kind similar here, but I think your idea is a little bit different and so maybe you could explain the nuance in your take and then also get into some of the obstacles to adoption that you've been seeing.

>> For sure. I mean I like I think you framed it well. I think it's along the risk curve. I also think it's along the duration curve. I think that's another Yeah. very important property. Um I think that you will have additional utility um that kind of is a forcing function for uh for folks to adopt this like you said 247 trading for equities very important. I can also imagine once you have more of these equities actually tokenized on chain you can start to be a lot more creative in the portfolios that you're creating. And so I look at this as almost like financial like personalization I suppose um at a cost

structure that traditional brokerages uh simply cannot offer. Um maybe you want an index fund but you want to exclude certain assets. Um there's like fascinating agentic type use cases that uh that you can also start to plug into this. Um and so I think we'll we'll see a lot of that. And of course things like leverage and looping I do think um makes even relatively less volatile assets like corporate and sovereign debt a lot more attractive and there's obviously a lot less risk of liquidation. Um I think in terms of the challenges there's probably a few things. Um one that is most top of mind is around secondary market liquidity. And so as we start to

expand the duration, say like vaults start to have, you know, like three-month lockups, then six month, then one year, then uh then five year, there's for sure going to be capital that is okay with that. But I think what you want to have is strong secondary markets that can like take that if a user chooses to exit. Um, this can be either the issuer offering a partial redemption or it can be market makers that step in and agree to take that duration risk for some amount of return. I think there's other things where we can just get better at around um, you know, curators just like doing better around reporting, risk management. I

don't want to call them fiduciaries, but I do think that they have [snorts] an important role in the ecosystem to make sure that the capital of users is being allocated properly. >> Yeah. Yep. They almost are like rias, you know, you don't call them that right now because they are still waiting for kind of the SEC ruling, but they are they are very ve very similar. Um, so just kind of zooming out from the nuances here from the physical and uh the financial categories as well as just thinking about this this kind of speculative adoption curve. We've been just formulating this thesis that we're so so early to this kind of broader spectrum of tokenization. RWAS on chain

I think are like 30 billion stable coins or like 300 billion. We're thinking to the tune of there's about a 100 to$250 trillion dollars of assets that are likely to be tokenized. Let's say in the next decade uh maybe two decades in the next five years we're looking at maybe 10 to 20 trillion dollars. So we're looking at like orders of multip orders of multitude larger than the current total crypto market cap and I'm thinking many of the top 20 assets will be kind of like these real world assets in the future. We have figures heliloc already in the top 15 and I think we'll see more and more of this kind of happen. And so when we start to think about the second and third order effects of this happening, you know, the the thesis that

we've just been constantly reshaping on the show is who is the biggest winners here from the investor's perspective. You know that or you have high confidence, right, that there's going to be this massive onshoring or onchaining of this capital to our to our home base here. Who wins? Which protocols wins? Which primitives? which companies from the investors perspective, from the entrepreneurs perspective, how do you allocate and think about investing in outliers? If the tokenization thesis is correct, who wins?

>> Yeah. Um, I think first and foremost, individuals win, right? Like blockchains, public blockchains are democratizing technologies and it allows you to distribute financial assets at the scale of the internet. And so there are many capital markets where people do not have access to highquality assets and this really I think is an engine for economic prosperity. I think that is an incredibly important point and I am not a judge of PMF and things around speculation but I think if you're just able to have people around the world just be able to you know own a share of

Nvidia US sovereign debt still relatively high quality I think that actually does a lot in terms of uh uh prosperity there. I think the second point is that there are companies like Robin Hoods where they are new relatively in the context of financial institutions and they're moving quickly but I also think there's a new class what you know a lot of people start to refer to as like neo brokers um that start to penetrate markets and they can get there a lot quicker because of the non-custodial nature of things and they're able to distribute assets in those local jurisdictions in in a way that those incumbents uh cannot. I think [snorts] the third is the opportunity

for um highquality issuers. I think about like the black rocks of the world um to expand market share because again you are effectively providing access and the products that have the greatest access generally have the highest quality issuers. um there is an opportunity I still believe for new kinds of issuers and novel kinds of financial products and I think that's more like a democratizing like capital markets function and so what I personally like to look at is how weird is it you know like how how unique is the uh kind of like access that you're

offering and is it something that the market just cannot get access to um because if it's not weird then it's black rockck and I think that's totally fine but from an investment perspective I like the weird stuff. the esoteric things that are too small maybe for these large firms or issuers to touch but have like a very unique value proposition when you enable different you know when you take the enablement of the onchain economy and you take these products it's kind of this really interesting opportunity that these larger firms may not pay attention to but with the knowledge that you know you have on how it all works and then this new kind of esoteric product that

creates an interesting opportunity interesting Interesting. So those products might win those those funds, those these oil companies that you speak of this these kind of more like perhaps underinvested companies may may perform well if the onchain economy can unlock like you know you had a great example right with like sovereign debt and things where it's like very boring, very safe, decent yield. But if you can juice that yield without really amplifying the risk much, then all of a sudden that product, the risk-to-reward becomes asymmetrical.

>> That's right. Absolutely. Spot on. >> Interesting. Demetri, thanks for your time. Thanks for the article. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I have the attention span of an ant post AI, so I had to put it through an LLM to actually get it actually through my brain. Uh, but it I did great. It did great. And thanks for coming on. Um, we're just so bullish. We feel like we're so early on this and the constant question that we're asking ourselves on the show and asking guests and talking through is just like okay then like how do we put our money in places to be like how do we express this view just constantly trying to learn how to express this view and so um it's honestly not an easy question like securityize is going live on the NYC tomorrow like is that a buy I mean I

don't know it's already at the bills so like we're kind of retail we're kind of like you know all right I guess it could be a buy um stable coin is also hard to expressive view on pers obviously you know you have hyperlquid lighter easy to just buy for anyone but the others tokenization and stable coins you could argue ethereum you could argue some for salona and then it kind of gets a little bit hairy as to like where you how you allocate or express that view outside of the private market so >> yeah yeah and and and remember it need not be a um a token or a piece of equity maybe it's another way to um earn yield as part of a broader portfolio strategy.

So, a lot of different ways I think that we're allowing the markets to kind of express the demand and I think we've made a ton of progress. Um, but I do think we're we're we're still early and I'm spending most of my time in this place uh and on the sector. Um, so incredibly bullish. >> Beautiful. Well, we'll let you get back to it. Enjoy SF as well. Um, and we'll talk to you soon, man. Go USA tonight. All right. >> Thanks for having me, man. >> Yes, sir. Bye. All right, guys. Um, are we are we up? Are we like What's good? Can we get the screen, please? I'm there. Can we please get the screen up real quick? Um, we're just going to leave you guys here for a

sec after that. I mean, guys, we've been talking about that category for a while, right? Like we we just are going to consistently find ways to express that bullish view. ex expressing that bullish view is the number one challenge and the number one way that we're going to do well in markets over the next couple years. How do we express the bullish tokenization, stable coins, and per views? What's the best way? That's the question. So, I'm going to leave you guys with this for a sec and I'm going to take a little breather. So, enjoy the chart.

Maybe we can just make the chart the whole screen here. Um, and uh we can just do a little uh we can just do a little uh waiting for this breakout to confirm on the one minute chart yo yo gentlemen, ladies, gentlemen,

welcome to the party. Um, yeah, I mean, looks pretty good. I would say it looks pretty damn good, guys. I would say we got that sweep last night that we were looking for and I think it looks good. Hype's just like not showing the same strength it did. But I think if we reclaim 65 on a Bitcoin move back above this. So like this MA has been killing Bitcoin, right? It like hasn't really we haven't traded above this yellow line for a while on the one hour. On the 4 hour like we haven't traded above this purple line for a long a long while. I

mean barely here, right? So these are all like somewhat significant. Um like they're pretty significant, right? I mean the one hour is not as not nearly as significant. And then on on the daily, it's like we got a lot of work to do, right? So, I mean, we'll start with this, we'll get above this first one, and then we'll, you know, try to attack this next one. [snorts] And then same with these others. And so, for hype, hype is clearly just hanging out in the middle. Like, hype structure is way different.

You know what I mean? And so, same with lighter. Look at that. Oh my gosh. This thing is unreal. This thing is unreal. >> This thing is unreal. All right, guys. Um, we're going to break. Whoa. Yo yo yo. What?

Yo yo yo yo yo. What bro? Bro, did Lighter just make that announcement? Oh my god, bro. Bro. Yo, wait. What is that? Not real, dude. It's [ __ ] That shard is not real.

Oh my god. What happened on Bitstamp? That's not the token. Guys, we're we're going to get Henry Henry [snorts] McI, the uh co-founder of StreamX up here in just an absolute moment. Lighter just bounced super hard. You guys saw that, right? We saw a god candle live. Yeah, but I don't think it was real. I think lighter's trading at a $1.90. Why is Bitstamp got it at 280? Dude what?

Man, this is just how we know we're still like so early in this market. The inefficiencies are just ridiculous. Like something's going to come out about that. What? That that like that doesn't just happen. All right, guys. Let's move on from the charts. I don't know. I don't know what's going on out there, guys. What the hell was that? What the hell was that? All right, guys. We've got Henry McY, the co-founder of StreamX. Uh they are executing hard on tokenized commodities, a gold one to1 physical goldbacked yieldbearing tokenized security. Uh it's kind of following up on the conversation that we had with our friend Dimmitri. Um and they launched February 226. you get paid in APY monthly in extra gold via leasing out the gold. Uh they had $14 million in

uh AUM in Q1 and they distributed a bunch of yield as well. Um they also have partnerships with T0 and more. So again on the tokenization trend guys. Wait, dude. I'm still so Okay. Yeah, look at that. Back down to 1.93. All right. Uh, I'm not using that lighter market anymore. Let's get Henry up on the show. Uh, I did not mean to go on a lighter chart god candle uh, run there, but you saw what happened, so I don't really know what happened there either.

H, how you doing, Henry? >> Good, man. Good. That was uh, that was a crazy chart. I was watching that as well. [laughter] >> Never seen a God candle live. Um, good to have you on, Henry. Um, would love to just hear a bit of of your background being a co-founder of Streamax. Um we are very very big tokenization bulls in the show. We've been talking about it and just kind of uh exploring the idea quite you know quite deeply. So you know who's Henry? What is StreamX? And what is your kind of broader vision for what you're building? >> Yeah. No amazing. Thanks uh thanks a lot for having me on. Um to to give a quick intro myself uh like I said my name's Henry Mcy, co-founder and CEO of StreamX. Our focus is is really on commodity asset tokenization. And so

we've been operating the space for for almost four years now. We went public last year and so we're traded on the NASDAQ right now under the ticker STEX. My background itself is is much more focused sort of in the digital asset space. Have have been in the industry for for a number of years. Everything from NFTTS to had a software development company doing early stage tokenization stuff on the Salana and Ethereum ecosystem. And I also have a mining engineering degree. And so what what Streamax is really is sort of a mixture of of all of those and and bringing commodities on chain and really innovating within an industry that traditionally does not really see a lot of innovation. And so our first asset sort of flagship asset is is GLDY that you touched on it essentially it's it's

a gold asset that pays you to to hold it. And so really turning gold from an unproductive asset into a productive one and and sort of getting rid of that that pet rock theory where you know if you have an ounce of gold and you wait 10 years you'll still have an ounce of gold. Now with GLDY you actually have the ability to get paid and and get a yield from uh from gold itself. >> Yeah, that's amazing. And that process is done via leasing that gold out to other um other storage facilities, other other uh merchants who who's kind of the counterparty on these on these loans.

>> Yeah. So the the yield itself is generated through like you said something called gold leasing. This is a market that's been around for a very long time, but traditionally has only really been available for large institutions who wanted to to do it. And so the simplest way to think about it is you have gold and and StreamX we have gold. What we do is we rent that to manufacturers, companies and large institutions that are using it in their in their processes as working capital. And so a good example would be a jeweler. And so a jeweler for example, they need to make a lot of jewelry with gold. What they do is they would essentially rent or borrow lease the gold from us. They pay us to be able to do that. We ensure everything on two levels from Alons, Lloyds of London, two

of the largest carriers in the world. There's a full credit underwriting. There's there's a lot of security that sort of goes into the process. And we also only lease to large companies like, you know, for example, our our biggest client is a $5 billion jeweler who's publicly traded with 67,000 stores. And so they essentially they pay us to be able to use the gold. They have the ability to turn into chains or or rings or whatever they want to do. And we're able to pass that yield essentially. and and what they pay us to use it for onto our holders while keeping title of the the gold the whole time. And so it really is turning gold from an unproductive asset that sort of just sits there and and actually, you know, using it and giving people the ability to to get that yield while keeping the

underlying exposure of the of the asset. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I mean gold had that insane run, right? Like it was, you know, January it topped out at like 4,700 or something. And I, you know, I think that I think that >> as this kind of like fiat debasement theory continues to run, people will want to have um, you know, the ability to get exposure to gold and then have it in its kind of tokenized form. Obviously, yield bearing form is, you know, a cherry on top. And so, you know, when you're thinking about the expression of this kind of gold thesis and this kind of fiat debasement thesis, who are the people that are using StreamX to get this extra yield? Is it like the average gold bug? Is it like

other kind of more sophisticated younger retail investors? Is it uh firms and funds who, you know, cuz owning like for example, I own a bunch of gold. you know, some of it is in like uh a safety deposit box, some of it is like in undisclosed locations, and it's kind of like that thing for me where it's like, you know, it's just it's just there. Like it's just it's like a stable unfuckwithable asset. And you know, even the concept of like taking any risk to earn yield on it feels a little bit strange to me. And so who is the user base and how do you kind of uh think about expanding that investor base uh a as you guys scale your your AUM?

>> Yeah. No, it's a it's a great question and and I think the the way that we look at it is there's sort of three main pockets of of capital that we're working with right now on on the distribution side. And a really good example of a a goldbacked asset that is probably the most popular in the world is obviously gold ETFs. And so like GLD for example, GLD is is the largest gold ETF around 180 billion in assets within there. And it's an asset that tracks the the gold price, but it costs you essentially 40 basis points every year to be able to hold it. And so when you think about it, you can't redeem an ETF for for physical gold really. You you can sell it and it's liquid and it's it's easy to to use. But now with GLDY, you still get

all the benefits that you would get with holding an ETF, but you actually get paid to hold it. And so there's almost a 4% delta there. If you're thinking about what asset should I own to be able to hold gold, you can own the GLD ETF where you get gold price minus 40 basis points. Or you can own GLDY where you get the same gold price exposure but plus 350 basis points with the yield itself compounding in additional gold every single month. >> Yeah. And so when we look at the sort of the the interested parties who are who are you know we're working with on the distribution side we announced a big partnership yesterday actually with a group called or on Monday with a group called Seabert >> and so Seabert Financial they're

investment bank and wealth manager they have around 20 billion in in assets under management in their wealth management division and we're actually working with them as the the first tokenized product and and tokenized security that they are bringing to their network to be able to sell through their brokerage. age network, you can hold it in a traditional brokerage account. And it's really sort of when you think about the the bridging of TRDFI and DeFi. This is that really in in practice. And so that's a big, you know, group of of investors and people who are traditional investors who want exposure to gold. Now we're giving them the ability to get exposure to a a tokenized version that pays you a yield, which is is really exciting. When we look beyond that, we're also working with, you know, a number of RAAS and and IRA custodians,

too. And so RAS, investment advisors, groups that have pools of capital where people deposit. They are looking for gold exposure. IAS, we we announced a partnership with a group called Equity Trust, given the ability for you to hold your GLDY in a IRA account, so tax uh tax efficient account in the in the US. And then we also work with a number of ETF providers and then just general accredited and and you know high net worth investors who want gold exposure with a yield on top of it. And so our biggest focus really is on expanding distribution. The the Seabbert announcement was a proof of that and really excited to be able to show how that you know grows AUM and grows uh you know essentially distribution for GLDY.

And so that's basically that's how we that's how we look at it. >> Yeah. And then when you think about the actual um monthly yields you are you guys paying those in additional gold holdings to people's underlying? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Got it. And can you choose to get that dividend essentially in cash or gold or is it just just gold? >> Yeah, so the dividend right now is is paid in gold. And so you essentially get additional GLDY every single month which is which is additional gold. You can actually sell that GLDY. You can sell it on the secondary market to be able to get cash. And so if you want and and say you get an ounce of yield one month, you can go sell that on Orca or on T0 or any

of the other exchanges that we work with and and get your USDC or or cash and then have that as a cash denominated yield as well. There will be a point in the future where the the yield will be paid in in cash. But right now yielding gold is is a pretty good uh pretty good one for people. >> Yeah. And then thinking about, you know, obviously, you know, this is the product, here's the offering, here's what we do, but thinking about more broadly about like the macro uh tailwinds behind gold, right? There's, you know, as an entrepreneur, you know, you take bets on where you think the world is heading with your capital as an investor and then as an entrepreneur with your time and your career. And clearly, you have a directional view on gold being uh an asset that people are going to want to continue to own. Maybe

just talk us through why you are um taking this kind of career uh bet in terms of the time and the effort and the resources and what kind of like the macro tailwinds are for gold as an asset that uh lead you to believe that this is going to uh drive asymmetric returns to your business as well as to the investor base. >> Yeah. No, it's it's a really good question and and I think when we when we look at it, whether it's gold or or other commodities in general, I I think the commodities market as a whole is poised to grow exponentially over the next next couple years. I think the gold market especially when you look at the the sort of the world right now and you look at the different macroeconomic

things that are happening with inflation, in inflation, currency debasement, all these sort of headlines that you see in the market. Gold itself, it had a a massive run over obviously over the last two years. It's pulled back a little bit now, but I don't think that that run is stopping anytime soon. I think when you sort of look at everything that's happening, gold is something that 100% everybody should have in their portfolio. And I've seen things people talking about growing it from from a 5% allocation to up to a 20% allocation in gold to be able to hedge against a lot of this uh uncertainty that's uh that's in the world. And so when we look at gold itself, I think gold is a a great bet over the next couple years and and even beyond as it has been for the last 50 years, even

even longer. And I also think when we look at commodities in general, I think there's so much, you know, so much benefit to holding commodities and investing in commodities just because of everything that's coming. Copper especially, silver, gold, they are great assets to to be able to hold. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and do you are you a believer in this kind of like fiat debasement idea as well? Just like the denominator is worthless. So like buy Bitcoin and gold all you know that's like the Bitcoin bull thesis right you know in a nutshell is >> do do you feel like >> you know gold bugs see things in a similar way sometimes they can be even more doomer they can be even more doomer >> no I think I think to an extent I I think there's you know there's the the

far end of the spectrum where everyone's like no either own Bitcoin or gold the the dollar is going to zero I think if you look at it over the last you know 50 years the dollar especially the US dollar has lost obviously a lot of its value. And so when you see when you see gold going up, that's gold is is denominated in in US dollars primarily. And so when you see gold going up, that doesn't necessarily mean that the price of gold is going up. It means that the the price of gold denominated in US dollars is going up. So the US dollar is going down. And so if you want to actually hedge against that, you want to hedge against inflation and and earn an asset, gold returns over the last 50 years, an average of 8%. Gold is a great hedge against that. And so same thing

with Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is also, you know, a great asset to have maybe a little bit of a smaller allocation than than gold just because it's a lot more volatile depending on your what you want to do with your portfolio. But I think overall it it is something that there's there's a wide end of the spectrum. I think I'm probably more in the middle. I think the dollar is going to continue to to go down in value just because of inflation and the amount of money that is being printed and the debt and everything like that. That's why I think gold is definitely an investment that people should hold. And you know, like I said, with with having GLDY and earning a yield on it, you get an even better return profile.

>> Yeah. And then when it comes to the yield part, just kind of closing up here, what is the risk that I'm taking by holding GLDY? Is are these loans like like fully secured loans? Um, with, you know, with with these counterparties that you measured, they're insured by, for example, Lloyds of London, etc. You know, what what is some of the tail risk that I'm taking as far as like worst case scenarios go? >> Yeah. So when we were creating the asset, the most important thing for us was to be able to to make it institutional grade and so work with the right partners so that those risks are essentially mitigated. And so when we look at it and when we're looking at gold leasing, one, the counterparty itself is very important. So there's an 18step underwriting process that we go

to to be able to actually pick the counterparty who who gets the gold on on lease and pays us back. That's why why we only work with very large large companies to do that. The second piece is if the gold ever, you know, there ever is an issue, it is insured. And so, like I said, we ensure it on two levels by Alons and Lloyds of London. On top of that, we do daily spot checks. The gold is RFID tag, so we know where it is at at every point. And we can go get the gold at any point if we feel like there's an issue with the with the lesser. And so, you know, there's a lot of uh a lot of it has been mitigated.

There's a lot of steps that go into to, you know, making this process efficient and also making it institutional grade. And so when you think about it, you know that, you know, StreamX, a public company, is is underwriting it. We are working with these these groups to make sure that it's it's safe and and efficient and, you know, like I said, an institutional grade product. >> Love it. Love it. Henry, well, congrats on the growth of the AUM. Congrats on the growth of of the product and of the idea clearly getting traction. I think gold has had a bit of a pullback this year, but I mean the the breakout from the last, you know, massive range that it had into now we're clearly in now what is going to be like um a decade long gold bullish trend, I think. And so, um anticipate more investors kind of

pivoting into uh gold and other commodities, which hopefully, you know, has a direct correlation to the success of of StreamX. So, wishing you the best of luck. Thanks for your time and uh I know you're busy so we'll let you go and keep at it, man. It's like it's like uh sisfist, man. We're pushing the rock up the hill and sometimes we get some pullbacks, we consolidate, we go back up again. And so, you know, we're in we're we're in the uh bottom to middle section of that hill now on goal and we're going to just gonna I mean, I'm a long-term holder here, so I'm just hanging on. >> Amazing. Amazing. No, thanks a lot, Andy.

>> Thanks, Henry. All right, buddy. Gold, guys. I am a gold bull. I am a gold bull. I bought gold after the 2022 bull cycle and I never really thought about earning yield on gold. Like I never I never thought about how that actually works or if that's something that is actually going to um like catch on, but it seems like it is. I mean they have a ton of AUM. they have a ton of uh actual, you know, demand products products that people are using.

So, it's definitely it's definitely working. It's definitely working, guys. I cannot believe that we saw real time like some absolute some absolute market making shenanigans on on Letter. Like, what even was that? I don't even know what that was. All right, guys. I'm going to pull up some of our favorite ecosystem charts here and uh cruise around for a bit. Checking on per still. That MNAV is super low, guys.

Super low. Still, I think I still think that has a lot of room to grow. I think it has a lot of room to grow. I don't know why it would be so low. I think Sailor honestly Micro Strategy is kind of just like killing the DAT trade. So, as we kind of said, guys, strategy is fine. I know. I mean, we still have this level that it's going to retest. We'll see what happens there, but it's fine. It looks fine. Stretch, dude. Guys, our bull thesis is playing out. Our bull thesis is playing out. Our bounce thesis is playing out. Our bounce thesis is literally just stretch stretch

back up into this range. Like it doesn't even need to go to 100. Just get back in here and we can have some relief. I mean, if this thing gets back up into the high 90s, I think we bounce super hard. Super hard on Bitcoin. If it just gets into the low 90s, I think that I think that we get a nice bounce. Do you see Drift has rebranded into Velocity? I did. And I also saw that the announcement was literally written by Chad GBT.

Like how do you how do you do a product in a massive rebrand following your exchange getting absolutely hacked and your users getting cooked and then you do this >> embarrassing >> velocity is the exchange you've been building toward mdash a cleaner architecture a stronger security foundation and a clear sense of what the platform is for the name carries is that intent. This was definitely written by A.

And so as a human, when you see this stuff, you're just like, why are we why like do you care about your users? Like I don't want to be negative. Like I really don't want to be negative. I hope they figure it out. I hope that they, you know, get the the transition done, that the users are made as whole as possible, but like this just shows like a lack of care in my opinion. We need clarity badly for the institutional money to come in. I agree.

No way. Are you kidding me? Seriously, not going to make it. I agree. Not going to make it. Rocky roll up. Good to see you, buddy. What's up, Rocky? Freedom guys crying. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So, I I didn't think that was all that I didn't think that was that was really great. Something's happening on Hyperlid right now with the priority fees. Something's happening. Something's happening. Something's happening on the priority fees.

I don't know what's happening, but for some reason the priority fees on Hypquid are drastically increasing. I don't know what it is. It's good also to see HIPP 4 volume continuing to grow. I mean, it's nothing crazy. We had a couple good days, but we've talked about how this is an additional kind of thesis here. I mean, $3 billion burned. I mean, you see Soul start to kind of creep up here.

Like, it's very zoomed out, but look at this. Soul's actually outperforming hype on a 30-day basis. Previously, hype was outperforming everything. You see that? Soul's actually outperforming hype on a 30-day basis. Obviously, when you zoom out, it's a lot different, but it's outperforming it. 30 days and today. What is soul up today?

I mean, Anom is just going all in on just bringing this thing back. I mean, Soul's up 5% today. I mean, Soul is touching the most important level it's had on the chart for a while. Like I mean look at this. Like it needs to it needs to hold this level. I mean this is like this is this is it for soul. I mean this is probably a good signal for the rest of the market, right? Like if that line can get flipped and this isn't just an instant short, I think the rest of the market has has some legs too.

You know what I mean? But this line is just it's going to be hard. I mean, there's one, two, three, four, five touches. Six time it broke under. It's going to take a little while. But like the bull thesis to be early to soul will you kind of missed it. It was buying down here. But what you're looking for is like something like that on soul. That's what that's like that's like the bolts just reclaim and go. I think it's possible and if this happens I think the whole market sense I think soul has that effect on the market like when Salana is pumping it's risk on. That's kind of my barometer as well. When Salana's pumping it's risk on.

That's my barometer. Hype, I don't know, man. I just zoom out on hype. I don't really try to do much TA on this thing. Soul has to get back over 100 before he can get excited. Yeah, I agree. Graham getting list on Nance tomorrow. Oh, that's Telegram's coin. Pretty good spot around 1.54. Robbie got yellow fever or what? Hope he's okay, [laughter] dude. Robbie's in Machu Picchu today with his girlfriend. Guy's leaving us to the stream, huh? Leaving the boys to hang out. We are uh we're investing a bunch of his into his studio for you guys. got a whole new sign, new cameras, new lights, new everything. It's going to be great. When he gets back over the coming week that he's back, it's going

to be great. But yeah, guys, I mean, I don't really have much here other than looks good. Looks good. Close over 60 today or 65 would be fantastic. This got a really nice bounce. And this this is the daily close above 60 is everything to us right now. Everything for Bitcoin.

So stocks I mean these things are just unreal. Like unreal man. Pangu man. Damn, we did a early stage investments in in Pingu and it just we we never got to sell up here. Now we're just waiting for the next bull run if we get like a memecoin bull run. Pump up 4% today. I mean, it's definitely trying.

It's definitely trying. I don't know what happened to Sky, man. Got smoked. Fundamentals did not change, but it got smoked. Near's holding on. Near probably looks pretty good here. If we get a a broader turnaround, I think it it could have some pretty strong moves. I can't believe we saw that lighter candle. Lighter looks amazing, man.

Unreal. Unreal. Completely unreal. So, the Pango community is still strong. Yes, I agree. All right, Robbie's okay. Yeah, he's okay. Don't don't don't you worry. Don't you worry. Pump still needs to deal with the lawsuit. Got to wade through the BS. Everything is highly manipulated right now. Yeah, I feel you. I feel you. I think we're looking good though, guys. Guys, we've got a very interesting guest.

Yes, we've got a very interesting guest, Amos Meerie, the co-founder of Ant Seed. Uh he also co-founded Colorco Coins in 2012, one of the earliest projects for issuing digital assets on Bitcoin. He later co-founded Node Capital and is the co-founder of Ant Seed AI, the peer-to-peer open market for AI inference, which we believe is going to be probably the most which is becoming the most valuable part of the entire AI stack. We're going to take a super quick break and we're going to get Amos up for AI Supercycle episode number 40 live from the financial capital of the world. Be right back in just a second.

[music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> We get we get

we get deep. We get know we get deep. [music] We know we get deep. >> [music] >> Welcome back to AI Supercycle, our premier AI show airing every single week presented by Near. We cover the ins and outs of decentralized AI, privacy, and [music] the future of this massive technology. Near is the blockchain for AI and the execution of AI native apps.

You can check out Near's latest AI product at near.ai. I'll sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. [music] >> Welcome back to AI Supercycle, our premier AI show airing every single week presented by Near. We cover the ins and outs of decentralized AI, privacy, and the future of this massive technology. Near is the blockchain for AI and the execution of AI native apps. You can check out Near's latest AI product at near.ai. Now sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

All righty, guys. Welcome back to AI Supercycle episode number 40, our premier weekly AI show powered by our friends at Near. Uh visit near.com for one of the best portfolio interfaces in all of crypto as well as near.ai for their private inference product. Today we've got Amos Miri talking about the AI inference explosion. Amos is a longtime crypto builder and investor, was one of the first builders on Bitcoin with colored coins and is now the co-founder of a company called Ant Seed, which is an open-source peer-to-peer marketplace for AI inference. Amos, welcome to the show. Good to have you, buddy.

>> Thank you, DV. Thank you for having me, man. Super happy to be here. >> Of course, man. Of course. So, we've kind of seen the iterations of decentralized AI happen. We saw this iteration of decentralized training compute and inference about a year and a half two years ago. Then we kind of ran through this like agentic framework with like these uh different forms of agents on chain as well as having like X accounts and and you know memecoins associated with them. Then you know then we've gone through through GPUbacked stable coins like USDA. Um and then now we're you know we're quite firmly in this open- source AI era where the uh CEO of anthropic is saying that open source AI is progressively moving in a very scary direction and it's something

that the US is also trying to onshore through this there's been a persistent demand for compute across the board we've seen memory stocks fly we've seen um chip stocks fly semiconductor stocks fly and through this there's been a kind kind of new golden goose which is inference. People are realizing the value of inference in the AI stack as being the most valuable part of the stack. And so in today's conversation just want to understand what is happening at the at the inference level why it is so valuable what ant seed is building open source AI and more. So maybe Amos, you could just give us a start of what is inference and why is it

catching so much fire and traction in the AI world as being the most valuable part of the AI stack. >> Yeah. All right. So so many things to talk about. Uh but I'll start firstly enough for you. you mentioned like the crypto and how it evolved and the the terrible memecoin period uh for crypto which was very hard for me seeing being in the space for almost 14 years. Um so so yeah I'm very happy to start seeing actually things that make sense in in in crypto and um uh for me it was you know a very long journey uh but um I got really excited about AI just I would say a year ago something like that and

really went deep into understanding where crypto and AI could actually work. there are many places that I think they they want but we can talk about them. Um and and yeah like um you had a lot of uh uh different attempts and in in stuff that were early you know like for example think about a cash and and project like that that were very early to market and now are booming which is very very nice to see you know people holding for for that long and building something that actually meaningful and um inference is uh is uh yeah I guess one of the hottest topics because it's kind of like the new oil right Um there are basically two type of works I

would say in terms of AI. The one is like the training part and the other part is the inference. The inference to to very you know simplify it. It's like when you're talking with GPT cloud whatever it is that work that the AILM is doing is is basically the the inference. So you're paying for that uh uh service that compute. And um um I look at inference really like the new oil because you know if you look at airline companies if they're um uh we're hedging oil prices because that's their biggest expense. What we're going to see is that inference is going to be one of the biggest expenses of the new tech the new company. So as we move forward, this

market is going to evolve a lot and uh we'll start seeing you know stuff and I think we're already starting to see that like people looking at hedging inference prices and um you know you have uh uh Venice um uh doing also something interesting in this intersection with DM which we can talk about as well. Um so yeah I think inference is going to be a big thing something with basically endless demand. Uh if only like five or 7% of the population is paying for it think about what will happen when when we'll have more and you will have robotics um and everything will use compute and inference.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so just a way to kind of classify the value of inference when you're thinking about using these tools when they are like writing back to you like oh we're thinking that is the inference you're you're producing tokens to get an outcome that like a response to your prompt. And so this the the inference explosion or the bull thesis for inference is the demand for tokens. Is that the right way to think about it?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's basically when people say the demand for AI, what they mean is actually the demand for that. So yeah. >> Okay. And right now the token production is, you know, growing exponentially, right? like the amount of tokens being used on a day-by-day basis across Frontier Labs is growing exponentially and there there is kind of starting to be this financialization of the AI stack, right? like we've heard about uh these compute markets being available for uh data center owners to hedge their inventory or for um different AI programs to kind of think about going

long or short on the price of compute based on what they're seeing in in their internal data. And so we're seeing like simultaneously the growth of both inference and compute demand and then also the financialization of these markets to create like the best fair market value. How do you how do you think about what is happening right now with the financialization of the AI stack? >> I think we're really really just starting right? uh we're really just starting because you know I sometimes it's it's really funny to me because I look at the the day space like in general and you know you had like GPT and everyone were using GPT like I don't know Bitcoin you know I really like I can compare it to to blockchains right and people think like

yeah that's going to be like the main thing and then you you had cloud you had some others Gemini etc etc and now what we're seeing is basically a boom of uh so many different models and I think this is just going to to increase. We're going to have also saraniant like countries, you know, having their own intelligence. That's a whole new by the way competition and and and uh that's happening behind the scenes for sure, right? Like uh that that's going to be a very big intelligence uh uh war, you know, between uh uh countries having their own proprietary intelligence is going to be the most lucrative and important thing for a country in my

opinion. But anyway, so um you know, you have all of these models and um endless possibility where inference prices are going to be also pushed down. And in terms of uh uh the financial part, it's really really just starting. Yeah, it's it's it's I see some you know different applications uh there was a big company I forgot it's named that kind of like raised now for doing futures and and some derivatives on top of that. I forgot the name. So yeah, it's just starting. It's going to be very interesting space to be in was actually also what kind of like turn on uh um the idea of starting Antid. Yeah.

>> Okay. So maybe we can just get get into then what what ANED is um for someone new to this you know what exactly is ANED and how does it differ from you know platforms like open router and other kind of similar platforms? Yeah, actually the the best way to explain it is to compare it because people understand and use Open Router. Open router is an amazing company. Um and and basically what they're doing is they're uh connecting between buyers of inference of any type of model that there is to um uh sellers uh providers who provide inference um different models etc. So it's a marketplace right?

people are looking to buy inference and other people try uh uh want to sell inference and open router sits in in the middle. Basically curates the provider you know it's a centralized marketplace that basically control the supply control [snorts] the demand and uh growing pretty pretty fast and um um anid is basically open router without open router in the middle. Okay, there there is no gatekeeper. There is no one who decides who is going to provide and what he's going to provide and there's no one who decides who is going to um consume uh that inference. And uh the way that it works it it takes a kind of

like an old idea which is the torrent network uh which by the way I think kind of like didn't work. It did work. It had millions of users. Yeah. But um because UI was very very important uh but in the edge of uh the of um uh agents like they don't care about AI but we we can get into it anyway. So um um Anid um doesn't have anyone in the middle and the exploration of the network happens on the DHT network which is the same B torrent network that you use to download files from one another. It works in the same way and the settlement and the agreements basically and the payments happens on base on on [snorts] the

blockchain. >> And um all of this thing is so decentralized and permissioned that we uh when we went live just uh I think almost three months ago uh at the second day we had a provider like we never talked with him. we didn't know like who he is but it's someone is just you know uh read something and connected and started to provide inference. So it's it's really like a truly decentralized protocol for that. Um, now already with um after only uh 3 months uh with more than 1,000 active users, more than $100,000 in in in volume and um with the

product that we're going to release, which we can talk maybe a little bit here, uh it's it's going to to go very very big. Yeah. >> And then Emos, maybe you can just kind of walk us through practically how how like what the user journey looks like on an seed. So I'm a buyer of inference. I come to the platform and I can use the platform and I pay the seller in the marketplace. How ho how does that work? Um and you know what does that process actually look like for those who are listening who want to try this out? What does that look like from the buyer perspective of wanting to buy inference to to use you know any LLM?

>> Yeah. So uh basically you can find all of the models basically that exist there are more than 1,000 different services AI services and what you can find there is and and the idea behind um ants that it's not only raw inference like you can have specialized inference like skilled inference or you can have even a router that you're paying for a specific router. So it's any type of uh service. on the user side, the experience right now is a little bit uh still rough and that's why yeah I'll talk about how it's going to look like very very soon. Uh but right now basically you download um a client you need to download endstation which is a chat uh client chat which is

kind of like a node as well behind the scenes and you interact with the network through that or you can use a CLI or you can connect it to your Hermes or your claw like pretty that's pretty pretty easily. So that's how it works right now. You know for someone who's uh a little bit technical I would say that's an easy thing to do. Um the way that it's going to work, it's going to work a little bit like a VPN. So you download um um a client like a very uh small client just like a VPN and you just click on that's it and you're connected to the network and you can use whatever tool that you already using today if it's open cod um cloud whatever it is

really um super super easily. Uh so the on boarding is going to be just like any non-crypto non-technical um product. >> Yeah. Love it. And then so this infrance market that you built is you know still in the early days you said you know it's the there's been $100,000 of volume thousand users. is kind of growing these kind of more marketplaceoriented inferences like oriented uh marketplaces for inference versus kind of like the centralized providers. How do you see this divide growing in the future? What are the advantages of using something like ANC versus a centralized inference provider or marketplace? And how do you

guys leverage blockchain rails open- source nature to kind of build a more a more dynamic and a better product from this uh you know you know foundation and then what is that kind of divide and how do you anticipate these two separate paths uh playing out for the next 12 18 months? >> Yeah. So so the idea is that um open market creates competition and competition creates better prices. that that's the whole idea behind this uh open market. Um and uh we don't care how people are providing their inference. Uh of course as long as they're following terms and conditions and rule and

everything, but they can run their own GPUs. They can uh they have credits to to a model that they want to uh resell. They can do basically whatever they want on on on on the network and provide inference. And if their product is good then people will use it and they will pay for it. The main challenges on on on on the network are basically two. One is you know how you make it easy for anyone to use which we I think figured out very well and we'll release it pretty pretty soon. And the second one is is creating this trust layer because when you have a decentralized network, you know, there are people who are trying to do some uh tricky stuff and it's not like we're a centralized platform. We can do, you

know, stuff. we need to cryptographically proof that someone uh saying that he's selling um I don't know GPT or whatever model it is that it is really what is uh uh uh selling and we're using for that for example uh blackbox API fingerprints which is it's a way to understand which model uh you're using T at the stations uh some uh different things so so that's kind of like the main main challenge when when you create something that is uh that open.

>> All right, so most let's get into what our audience is really going to want to hear about, which is this Ants token. Um there's a 1.04 billion token hard cap, no minting beyond emissions, no admin mint functions. The current supply is 55 million, uh 5.29% available. You're on epoch number 11. And there are basically emissions to track eligible real activity on the network. And so um we've seen the success of Venice. we've seen how how strong that token has performed as well as uh just the actual growth of the inference token production, excuse me, that they've done on a day-by-day basis. And so, you know, you guys have generated a a

significant sum of revenue. You guys have a pretty good business model. I'd like to hear about that. And then I'd like to hear about how you're thinking about this ants token as it relates to to this system because again a lot of us uh you know have been holding Venice and been bullish on Venice. We had Eric on the show in February when the thing was trading at like a dollar and they were doing like maybe five million uh you know tokens per day or sorry five billion tokens per day. Now they're doing like 80 to 90 billion per day. And so you know I think our audience would be very happy if this is a uh you know Venice style outcome. not you know no financial advice here. What is the uh the uh ANC business model? How do you guys generate revenue and then what is

the plan for the ants token and how can we get involved there? >> Yeah. All right. So so first disclosure I'm also an investor through nodes capital in Venice and a big fan of what uh the team is doing and super happy for them today for uh raising that amount. Um okay so uh basically um we decided to take a path where there is no conflict between a labs company and the network. So we're not going to have a a company but we're going to have a foundation is going to basically help manage the the network and all of the revenues from the network are going back into the network itself through a buy and burn. Um um so

nothing goes basically to a company. There is no extraction of value. Uh we want to create it in a very very decentralized way and that's the only way that I know. Um and um the first and easy uh fee is the network takes already 4% fee for every uh transaction or consumption of inference on on the network and that will go to buy and burn. There are other things um um that are going to happen in terms of fees. There are going to be more fees more fees generated on the network. The token have two layers. The first layer we're going to release in in in a couple of weeks and that layer focus the utility of the token is focused on the

reputation layer. So we talked about trust that it's hard to create trust in a decentralized network. So staking into a provider is one way to create that trust. Um so uh we'll enable staking of the ends token into providers and the rewards will flow both to um users who are using uh sellers and stakers. We also have another component into the tokconomics which is verifiers. It's it's people companies who's doing the work to verify the work on the network and the authenticity of the the provider is on the network. So that's the first layer is going to be uh up and

running in next couple of weeks. And the second one is the interesting one which I'll talk just a little bit to give you um the view. Uh we're looking into building kind of like a liquid inference token on top of the ants token. And the idea is that every time you stake the ants into a provider, you're receiving an NFT. That NFD is going to trade and it's going to be some kind of a bond to create that liquid inference token. Um that's the second layer. We're still working on it. It will take us time to to release, but that's kind of like the utility of the ants. But in general,

like we wanted to be to do like as fair launch as possible and this is why we didn't pre-mine, you know, bit didn't prem sorry uh tokens. Everyone get the opportunity to participate just like us uh from day from day one. Everyone get a chance to earn the tokens. Um we self-funded uh in the beginning only me and Shah my co-founders. So, we're only two people. We're only now bringing on board another two people to the team. Uh, so yeah, like super excited about uh everything that that that's coming and um yeah, try it out.

>> Yeah. And then on the revenue side, you mentioned that that you guys are planning on having the revenue be directed to the token. What is that like monthly revenue look like right now? >> Right now, you just take 4% of the 100,000 that we um uh we generate. But there are going to be other mechanism like for example if someone is is because you're locking for example your ants on a provider for a period of time and this period of time is like the strength of that position. Uh if you want to move it you will need to pay um uh fees um there there are some other fees mechanism. So it's going to grow.

We look at it as a this protocol as a business. It's not uh you know it needs to generate money. It needs to create value to the people who participate in it. Uh really like a win-win. Not not just saying a win-win. We're trying to create something is truly decentralized and and a win-win for all the players. >> Yeah. Okay. And yeah, on the bond token, right, that you mentioned this kind of NFT in the Venice design, you have this DM token that gives you a guaranteed amount of credits to use on their platform, right? Is is this bond token built with a similar kind of understand like a similar idea of this kind of guaranteed inference?

Um it's a little bit more problematic um to do when you're in the same model because it's not one provider just deciding that he's going to uh provide the inference. You need to basically align a lot of different providers into accepting the same inference token. So the mechanism is going to be a little bit uh uh different but I think the vanish mechanism is is is is one of the most innovative mechanisms I see in the past 14 years. And by the way like we have also the DM pool.

>> Yeah. >> Where DM holders are able to pull in into a smart contract. And this smart contract is a provider on Anid. So we have a Venice proxy provider on Antid which is basically people pulling in their unused DM into a smart contract and they're receiving basically the usage all the USDC usage which by the way is growing like crazy on this uh uh uh provider. Um and and they're receiving also of course ants as as a rewards for that. So yeah we're you can use basically Venice right now at 50% discount on an SID. Yeah.

>> So, one of the things that you mentioned about the providers, right, where you stake the token into uh one of the providers pools, um how do you prevent providers from being bad actors with no central control, right? Given that it's like this kind of decentralized system, what what what rules do the providers have to maintain integrity in the Anse system? Yeah, they don't have any rules because we can't create those rules. We can control it. The only thing that we can control is to kind of like create this trust layer um and have the wild west, right? Like the wild west we we can control, but we can basically help users explore trust and all of this trust

layer is not like us saying, "Oh, this one is shoots or this one is like, you know, a known provider." like we have to cryptographically prove you know that they they had a good uptime that they uh provided the model that they said they're going to provide you know that their identity is their identity like all of that it's a little bit harder than just building a centralized platform but that's why we're excited about it and I think it could scale um yeah >> yeah and then just thinking about kind of like the market at large how big is the inference market today and if we're talking about you know ANC getting a couple bips of this market to start how big are we talking in terms of total uh

token production and you know what is the scale of this market that that you're talking about >> it's it's it's endless it's uh I think we're we're seeing now only that even if you look at the biggest player I think this market is going to explode like in ways that you know there is I guess an AI bubble okay it's okay that there is a bubble because any new type of market like that. But it's also not a bubble, you know, because the the the demand to inference is is just uh to sorry to intelligence is just it's endless. It's an endless. Yeah, it is. So, >> yeah, I I think it's huge and I think there is a a place in the world for for

you know a permissionless a truly permissionless inference marketplace where everyone you know equally can consume or provide and I think also you know looking ahead one of the interesting things is specialized inference because think about for example designers you know people who used to do UIX UI and you websites and stuff like that and they have like really good workflow for that but they're going to be out of job like most likely right in in in couple of years like I think those people are going to develop their own specialized inference >> where they create their own workflow um you know connecting to different models to get basically the best output

and in the future people would not care if it's you know oppus 4.8 in a GPT 5.5 like you know I need now legal advice I'm going to get the best legal advice you know that someone can provide me so I think the future is going to look a lot like that and ANID is just you know >> open to that and we already have some uh some things like that >> last thing for you from my side and most what is the one big why for you for [snorts] building an seed and what's your boldest prediction for how these open source P2P AI marketplaces will evolve in the coming years.

>> So for me it's you know I've I've been to crypto for a very long time very exciting early days of Bitcoin was working with people like Vitalic on colored coins before starting Ethereum and all of that. So, so seen a lot in the space and and I came there from really an emotional and and that belief, you know, in a new system and everything. And as time passed, um, you know, things like memecoins, like sketchy token mods, all that like really destroyed everything. I hate it. I hate what pump uh uh fund like did to to to our crypto market. I just I I really I truly hate it. And um um and for me it's like I invest in in

in crypto companies through node capital. We run three funds and uh I felt like you know this older generation we've seen a lot of things and have the experience and everything need to step in again to start building stuff that are meaningful for crypto. And I felt like the intersection between AI and crypto is the right place uh uh for me. So that's why >> I love it. Amos, thank you for your time and thank you for being a part of AI supercycle episode number 40 here powered by our friends at Near Amos is building an seed guys. Uh you guys can check out an seed and their website uh it is at an seed.com you can learn about the ants token and more and everything that is going on with the open-source

inference marketplace that you guys are building. Wishing you guys luck as you scale and come into this launch and appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much man. Bye bye. >> Cheers buddy. Boy is this market going to explode. Boy is this inference market going to explode. Man, we are so so so early. It is I mean we are so early to this inference market and we are so early to this kind of tokenization market everything else. So guys, uh let's get into some of the final kind of charts, final things happening here in the space. Uh and just have a quick look at what's happening. Um because

yeah, I mean what a day. What a day out there. Um quick look around, guys, and then we're going to wrap it up here. Someone says someone says Sky is Sky had a major investor move tokens to an exchange. They haven't liquidated yet, though. Is that why it's dumping? Interesting. Bitcoin looks fantastic. I mean, it looks fantastic on low time frames. It's the best we've seen Bitcoin look in a while. I hate this hyperl weakness, though. What are you doing?

What are you doing? Lighter got dumped on that Robin Hood news as well. That's all right. We're It'll find a low. Bitcoin looks great. Looks really good. If we can close up here, we can close up here in the 60.2 60.3 range. It looks really strong. Really strong. Really good. Yeah. So guys, I think we're looking strong on on our thesis. I think we're looking good. Even if stretch is just at 87, I think we're good.

Guys, that has been the show for today. What a show. What a show. It is a beautiful day in New York. The US is playing tonight. Actually, I want to look at We'll look at that real quick. Let's look at this. Wow. We are very very favored to win by a lot. >> Wow. >> Wow.

>> W's in the chat. >> And then I think we play France if we win. [groaning and screaming] >> Yeah. That's not going to that's not going to be good, guys. The way I saw France play yesterday, I don't think the US has much of a chance. Oh, it sucks to beat a patriot patriot in soccer. These guys, it's the 250th anniversary of the United States of America. If we beat France, we will burn this place down. If France loses, they will burn Paris down as well. They The French always do that. They always burn their city. I don't get it, guys. I think Bitcoin looks great. I

think it looks ready to go. ready to touch 61. I don't really think that many people are long. I think people are pretty short and pretty scared right now. So, I think it's perfect. Guys, go USA. W's in the chat. W's in the chat. What a stream. Great stream today. You know where we'll be tomorrow. We don't have a stream on Friday. It's the long weekend. Great stream today. Markets look strong. We look good here. The rollup looking good here. The rollup arm is looking great here.

Our bags are looking strong here. Our thesis is looking good. Our summer bounce is looking good. Our interviews today are looking great. The US is looking great tonight. It's a beautiful day out. Lot to be positive about. Stay positive. Bearable. We're going to be here. We're going to hang out. We're going to do the show. We're going to rip. We're going to invest in the right assets. We're going to pick the right coins. We're going to time it right and we're going to crush this next bull. We're going to crush this next bull.

We'll see you tomorrow, same place, same time from the financial capital of the world, 12:30 p.m. Eastern. You know where to find us. Much love and shalop army. [music] >> [music]