LIVE WITH BREADGUY | MEGAETH, CZ AND MORE | 0XRESEARCH

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All right, guys. Welcome back to another episode live stream of ZeroX Research. Uh joined by my co-host Picacio, Triple Pacio, Salv Pacio, as well as Mark Arjun from the research research team at Blockworks. And we've also got Bread Zerox bread guy. Um you guys may know him from a variety of different things. I guess he's got his own other podcast um that he's on earlier than this one uh as he was just telling us about before the show. um and also at Mega ETH um more recently. Uh but maybe you know him just from Thread's CT general account status. So >> occasional nude >> the occasional nude and tattoo pick.

Yeah. Yeah. >> James Kristoff's begging for it. I don't know if you saw, but he's like make him take his ass >> in chat. >> Yeah. He's begging for it essentially. I don't know. >> I get that a lot these days, but I've already committed no nudes until mainnet. >> Very good. >> Yeah. Very good. So, Bred has um Brett, you're very popular. Um I think you did a very good job by branding. I imagine this is like something you did very explicitly. You you have your own like images and you put like the red background on them and they do really well. So, like anytime I see anything red, I'm like, "Oh, Brad guy. What is he up to?" I think it's >> Yeah, that was intentional. I actually copied that from Defi Ignis, if you know him. The the penguin. Yeah. Huge. I

think like um literally November of 2023, so almost two years ago at this point. I just remember like seeing him and seeing him grow and I noticed he did the same thing because he would create graphics, charts, whatever. And I saw that his PFP background was the same as that his images and I was like, "Okay, that's actually pretty cool." Um and it's a good way to like stop people from copying your [ __ ] and not crediting you, right? So like at least make it a little harder instead of like watermarking everything. Um so I just I noted it. I tweeted about I was like this pretty subtle but smart and I just started doing it since then with the PFP that I just had at the time and it's kind of just continued to evolve.

>> How did you come up with Brett? I know this you've probably done like a million of these but why is it Oh, I guess that makes sense. I just realized it >> because my literal my literal name is Brett with a T. Brett. And growing up people people just didn't annunciate the name. So like they would just like oh hey what's up Brett. And I had a friend that was name is Brad. And so like both of us would constantly get confused. It became a joke between us. So we kept doing that and then I don't know joined the space as a pseudonymous person. I had to think of something. So I just uh yeah, >> that's good. Last background question and Danny, I know we have more serious stuff to talk about, but like how did um because I know you as an add-on, right?

Like a smart add-on who posted a lot of interesting stuff, good takes. Um how did the mega >> A lot of that's because of Block Works. I like I grew up in the in the research streets with you guys and like I never like uh I don't know no one else like really talked about it. So like I feel like I've kind of grown with the crew a little bit just like in the back end and obviously not affiliated but like I always resonated with how you guys approached stuff and I just kind of did it independently. >> Yeah. I mean it's I saw what could have been right like who did you message? Who were you talking to? Was it Westy?

>> Yeah, I applied both. Both Westy Dan like Dan hit me up out of like out of nowhere. we were just like friends on the timeline and he's like bro you should join the team you should do all this stuff and I was like mfer I applied like four months ago and I talked to Mike at ETH Denver and like all this like I don't think one Mike linked my face me Brett as a person to like Brett the person online so I think that was disconnected and then I think that just like the application actually got lost also in the mix a little bit because coming through my face as opposed to like I think I probably had my resume which was like healthcare IT consultant at the time so like I had a my web two [ __ ] in there. Yeah, that makes sense. I

mean, it's a big fumble from us, but a huge um grab for Mega E, which I assume is is very happy with you because they you're doing a great job. >> I appreciate that. I'm trying to learn how to do marketing [ __ ] because like I'm a like I just said, I'm an IT dude. Like I, you know, computer science, I'm very literal. I talk about [ __ ] stats and like deep tech scaling [ __ ] Uh but their need was like a little bit marketing. So, I'm trying to get like trying to get pulled into like the classically trained like running a marketing campaign and doing all the, you know, the things that come with that design [ __ ] Like just things I've never had to do.

>> We lost him. Did I lose him? >> Yeah. Yeah, we lost him. >> No, the the marketing was stressing him out. >> It's okay. We can uh while he's lost, we can do our quick chills uh for the top of the pod one. D London Brett's back. We'll we'll do these real quick. We'll do these reads and then we'll come back to them. Uh D London coming up October next month. Um Pacio, Salv Pacio, and Mark Arjun, both of the guys on the show today will be there. Uh I know Ryan Connor, James Kristoff, some other names maybe that you know from the show will be there as well. And of course, a bunch of notable big names from around the crypto industry and also the Tradfi world um will be at at DS. So, get your

tickets. You can get 100 pounds off if you use code 0x100. And we're also running a bit of like a referral promotion uh if you refer 15 people to uh Block Works newsletters, then you can get yourself a free ticket. So, check that out. Um if you can refer the people, cool, get a ticket. If you can't get a 100 pounds off, use code 0x00. And we're going to be doing Bach, I don't know all the details, but Picacho himself will be doing a live Xerox research stream from the event one of the days.

>> Yeah, I will have on interesting people potentially. I actually haven't booked everything, which is why I haven't brought this up and I don't want to like overpromise and underdel, which is kind of a Bacio trait at this point. Um, but like we will potentially have people involved in the podcast at that and it should be potentially fun maybe. and interesting. We'll see. >> And maybe relevant to Brett's background, Block Works is hiring a research data analyst. So, if you love onchain data, crypto data, you love digging in the weeds, um having fun with SQL, making dashboards, all of that. Um we are looking to hire. So, reach out. There should be a link in the show notes. Um you know, get get your name in there, get your resume in there.

Hopefully, it doesn't get lost this time like Brett did. Um, and you know, >> that's a good question though and like I think I think like shout out the the team for um I was actually reflecting on it earlier cuz like I I thought about a few other research firms whenever I was going through that application process of like how do I get in the industry and like man like you guys have really like defined I think um at least for me the last like year or so, right? You have a bunch of these these other names. I don't want to like [ __ ] on people but like yeah man like uh it's cool. I think he has done done well and growth is just there.

>> Yeah, past year has been very good for Blockwork Works and not to [ __ ] on other people as well like they actually have very good businesses as well. It's just I think we we've done very very well. Um >> you guys impact CT more. >> Yeah, >> I'll say I think you guys have a a very good presence. Um, I don't know if that was a strategic thing that you guys all set out to do or if it was just naturally by like your people gravitated towards like that type of distribution, but I think that is probably where you guys made your mark the most. >> Can I I've I've been thinking a lot about this and like I'm actually reading this book right now called the Dao of investing or the Dow of Capital or something. It's by this guy, this old

investor. And he talks about this process of like how you can and it's a very simple thing like how if you just like wait to like do something uh for like a long time, the opportunity might eventually end up being much bigger. Um and that's I think what we did at Blockworks is like there's a lot of things that come to Blockworks that could like you know it could make you money but there's an issue with credibility and brand risk etc. And like we spent a lot of time like being very very careful with everything and we know that like I mean for a research shop credibility is everything. So like we took a long route for it. Um actually I've also been thinking about this I guess Brad. So I don't know what is happening but maybe like a big nostalgia hit hitting everybody these days works.

>> Yeah the um every fostering everyone's individual brand pretty meaningful as well. So, you know, even if hypothetically, you know, you're at Mega ETH, but if Zerx Bread guy was at Blockworks, like you'd still be posting on your account, sharing your brand around. Um, which I think is pretty meaningful, >> right? >> You might know a lot. >> It's it's a it's like the founder marketing thing, right? Like it's the same ethos. >> Yeah. >> I mean, both Yano and Mike are great at it. Everybody else on the team is one thing I want to say about your marketing and then we can get into more technical stuff. I think it's much better if you can approach stuff from a stats and I you also clearly know this like because if you're purely focused on marketing you're going to miss out on a lot of

people. It's too general. But I think if you're like pulsing about interesting stuff while also like supplementing that with like some form of marketing knowledge it's it's a lot better, right? Like if you're actually interesting and then you can use some of the strategies that you learn is very different to like being purely focused on marketing. I don't I don't see like I don't see how like a large purely marketing or purely PR firm could come into crypto and like really really dominate very organically and like it would like stick with a lot of people right like you want to have some form of base background in CT and tech um knowing how to scale something um business finance and then you can apply other things I think you'd have a leg up always as opposed to um like Ogilv coming in I'm sure they do really they'd

clean up but >> I agree with you and I think most of that is around contribution like everything you're talking about there where you do you talk about doing stats for like different ecosystems talking about conversation on a thing that they're naturally interested in which gets them to engage like give you like presumed expertise domain expertise in something and the fact that you can do that on someone else's turf let you build credibility which builds credibility for the brand right it's like you and that's just how social media works everyone's inherently selfish for the most part like if you're not doing just like straight up cluey style marketing bait where you just like, "Oh, this thing is weird. Click my [ __ ] and like and yeah, retweet it, whatever you're doing. Hey, this is something that is interesting to you

because it's your ecosystem." They then engage because they're selfish, frankly. And then that allows you to propel that into like the next thing which maybe not is not focused on their ecosystem. So, talk about Salana, then the next thing could be about Cardano, talk about Cardano, the next thing could be about Tron. And like you get those social circles that are interacting because they're selfish. They want to hear stuff about their specific stuff. and then it cross-pollinates because the algo feeds them the next thing. Um, yeah, you can't do that if you don't have any kind of impact on any of those individual circles where you can contribute. >> Yeah. And but that thing is very key is like hitting the right circles. It's very very important. There's a lot of people who spent a year talking about things that just didn't matter. And it's

at that point it's about a bit about like visioning what the future will look like. Um, I can do a good segue here. Danny, am I cleared? >> I have one, but go for it. Rip it. >> Uh, talking about what the vision of the future might look like. Um, what is happening with Mega E? Is there anything exciting that um I guess >> how can I phrase this? Yeah. Like what are we looking for here? What's going to come up? >> Farm me baby. Um, I mean like the probably the things that we recently announced, right? Like that's the thing that I think is still um fresh and new and and topical for the broader conversation. Um like obviously we did the USDM thing in partnership with Athena. So we launched you know

stable coin that is a meg stable coin and now we can use that to to like generate uh revenue that is independent of like the actual transaction fees on the chain right so like if people who are familiar with L2s you know you have the sequencer sequencer charges to actually execute the transaction they charge a little bit of margin on top of that and that margin is what they make their money out of. uh but it's kind of at odds with with other with like the users of the chain and applications, right? Because like you're just artificially increasing gas costs. So we were able to do the the stable coin now bring all that yield inhouse and hopefully create something that is synergistic with the growth of the chain and that scales with it. So as you know the chain grows like hopefully and like

the USDM uh supply grows we collect more yield on the back of that. We can deploy that into the ecosystem in various ways that hopefully attracts new apps. Those new apps that are attracted hopefully attract new TVL which increases the USDM supply which then and all of that is independent of like directly being subsidized by the users and skills a little beyond sequencer fees which I mean if you look at the I'm pretty bearish on just like infrastructure broadly. I think all of it just is going to compress. I think you guys probably share a lot of that same sentiment. Um and in a world where apps get smarter, capture more of the fees that they generate, which they should, right?

They're going to continue to do that. It means that the valuations of these smart contract platforms and the to underlying tokens are probably going to compress a little bit. Uh and that's just my opinion. Um then we want to create revenue sources that are independent of that which is why Hyperlid is so successful, right? Hyperl is a chain. Yes. Is an app first in my mind, right? HyperPS is the thing. That's what's generating all the revenue. That's where and that because they're an app, because they're doing that stuff, they're going to continue to grow crazily, right? Like have the ability to anyways. Um, so we're trying to m mimic some of that without like directly cannibalizing um specific apps on the chain.

>> I think that makes sense. And did the I guess the whole USDH debacle kind of validate that thesis in your mind where you were like okay like this is something that we should pursue because we can get revenue off it. >> Yeah, I mean we yeah we were like cooking this for for months ahead of that. So like the timing was good slashbad whereas like it it took over the timeline so like it validated it for everyone else. It reduced the educational hurdle that we had to do of like why we did it for sure. everyone else like speed ran that. Um, but it also was like the headline for like the majority of the time whereas like, you know, our thing was was second tier, which is, you know, fine, whatever. I think it just helps everyone. But yes, I I think broadly you're going to see a

lot of these stable coins get um taken out like this like that that all of that um uh yield that is not getting going back into an ecosystem is seen as now an opportunity, right? Your margin is my opportunity situation. Like you even saw Mert trying to call for uh for S USD manlet, right? So he can like internalize that [ __ ] Now the advantage that I think we have is that because we're starting with zero, we don't have to worry about undoing a USDC or a USDT or whatever. We can start day zero and like try to build up all of our our liquidity with USDM and we'll work to do that. But like so it's going to be hard like USDH once it gets adopted that's going to take a while to go migrate from USDC and maybe [ __ ] maybe it doesn't. I

don't know. >> I think that makes a lot of sense. Um, I think the the the obvious question it asks of all of these ecosystems that pursue this type of strategy is like how do you tow that line of, you know, if there's further revenue streams that you foresee, you know, maybe the the chain wanting to acquire in the future. You know, you have Mega Mafia, for example, you know, incubating apps within the ecosystem. How do you tow that line between like, you know, we'll let people build this versus, hey, maybe we should just build this oursel and capture it? >> Yeah, I mean that's a big criticis criticism, right? you don't want to nationalize anything uh or you don't want to be perceived as the thing that's always going to poach um poach teams or whatever. Uh I think our stance on that is that you know we like even for this

initiative we we tried working within our ecosystem first and then just for a multitude of reasons some regulatory stuff some like it just didn't work out. Um and frankly even this current deployment is not uh even uh in competition with anything else on the chain. Cap is a stable coin project that's in our mafia. They're like their thing is natively a uh a yield bearing token. So it's actually complimentary to cap the token and what they will be doing on the chain and our token. They've already committed to like using it as collateral within their their basket of underlying tokens. So like it actually uh lifts them up. Now like as far as like the future and like would we ever do that stuff like I think we we're going to continuously look for just like synergistic ways to deploy this stuff. I don't I think but we're also trying to

foster an ecosystem of people that are just competitive. So, you know, game is game situation. >> Yeah, totally fair. I think we're going to be seeing experimentation in this area probably all over the place as you mentioned with MERT, for example. >> Yeah. >> And this the USDM was in partnership with Athena. Um, but it's not a USD wrapper. It's USDTB, right? >> It's actually anything. So, like it'll start as USDTB. So, like that's that's the flexibility we have, right? And the criticism we get is like, "Oh, well, bro, you're just getting T- bill yields.

What happens when they compress as like rates continue to get cut?" Uh, on the back end, we can actually uh add a at a whim like switch it over to USD whenever like rates get uh cut and then like USD is inversely correlated to those numbers. So, our yield is actually can be dynamic on the back end. Uh we have like exposure to or we can have exposure to the full suite of Athena products like as we we go on. So, uh it's got some flexibility and that was another key reason why we end up going with them as a partner because it allows that flexibility and uh gives us some some uh flexibility in a downtrending market, right? Whenever maybe rates come uh or yields come, not real rates, whenever that stuff increases again.

>> When you say flip the switch, do you mean like entirely flip the switch or can it be a combination of the two? >> It's it could be basket. Yeah, it could be even now it'll be a little bit of a basket. It won't be 100% USDTB, but it'll be majority. uh and we have the ability to to mix and match so we can slowly go from one to the other over time like as we we observe the market. >> Are they going to come on the chain separately as well >> like as you >> No. No. Like yeah like we're that that was also part of it where we like the like we want to defend you know the ecosystem and try not to have too much fragmentation within it. So >> that makes sense. Uh by the way if you can't answer any question it's

completely fine. You can just See you can um my question next question is going to be so goes really really well with two protocols. It goes really well with Pendle like really really >> a and pendle. Yeah. The >> So, is that is that something that we should also be expecting? From what I I guess I heard this or like it just somebody said it to me but it can you guys even onboard a because you're like too fast or something >> that so it's we're we the chain is very fast and the chain does require special um special mechanisms to deploy if you're going to try to maximize the actual like effectiveness of the chain.

Uh so I will say nothing is like impossible but like some things may require some refactoring. Even though we are EVM equivalent, even though we do have like everything is is backwards compatible. Everything we do like you could do a onetoone transport you just wouldn't you wouldn't um experience the full benefits of what meth can offer. Um so they could deploy easily. uh whether or not they will be there is like it's a permissionless chain so they can uh I we don't have a firm commitment from them and uh a lot of that is is based on some other infrastructure components like you know there's different oracles that need to be in place like there's only certain that need to work with and sometimes they need liquidity agreements and frankly we're kind of taking a little

bit of a hyperlquid approach where you know we're just going to build the thing that we know which is awesome and we are going to attract awesomeness through that right like if you contribute like continue to just make things good and then build up the ecosystem and give opportunity for uh native applications like within mafia. Avon is one that like would be uh is offering a claw lending product instead of like what a would be. Um but yeah, so we're we're offering that opportunity to the ecosystem teams to like grab that. Um frankly, >> I think from the liquidity side, it kind of makes sense. we see a announce that they're looking to pull out from scroll and zkync just because it's just not worth the operational cost to be there.

I mean, and kind of a wakeup call for those teams, too. >> What do you think of the You're the Ethereum guy. What do you think of the commentary that uh Stani had against just like L2s broadly? >> I mean, I think rightfully so, Stani is getting a bit fed up, maybe jaded in in in the space. is like so I I mean I I I don't I I'm here for it. I I think we they need to start to be especially in the Ethereum ecosystem start to need to be a little bit less kumbaya and a little bit more margin driven. Um so I'm definitely there for that and I and and I love Stanley as an individual and as an operator. Um but I I wanted to ask so so so I mean that makes sense why AV is

not going to give the commitment to for for Mega Youth. maybe they want to see how well the system flourishes and that's from the liquidity side. Um, from the technical side, is it is it just oracles? Is is it is that the only technical limitation like you know it it it needs to be a really fast oracle in order to work on mega ETH or is it anything else? >> Uh, it's not even that it has to like everything will work. It just won't be the best form of itself. But we've we've made sure to work to get um some net new [ __ ] on the chain and a lot of teams see us as an opportunity to like really flex their tech their engineering skills. So like we had the Redstone guys, right?

The Redstone launch push oracle that pushes every 2 milliseconds on chain. Like it's a Redstone by itself if no other users are on the chain will generate around 400 TPS on the chain, right? Which is double what base does with all of its users and all of its or push oracles and all of its everything. Like day one, zero users, 400 TPS. like that's just how it'll operate assuming it pushes every single mini block. Um so like there's teams that have stepped forward to do all of that stuff for us. Um but otherwise, no, it's like it's it's straight up um EVM compatible and and everything is in place. Like uh the other nuances that we have that I think our people have the ability to lean into to like actually um pimp out pimp out their stuff is like our contract sizes

are like 512 uh kilobytes, right? Whereas like on mainet you have to go gas golf around 24 kilobytes. So they're talking about bumping it a little bit like I think it was like 64 256. Um so like you're you don't have to to uh break up your contracts into a bunch of things. And I'm actually even talking to I don't know if you've seen Ross who's the guy who pitched um singleton contracts who uh back in the day because state growth on top. You may have seen the the thread that came back yesterday that uh um Timbeeco I think is the one that retweeted it and it was like 97% of Ethereum state is redundant smart contracts that are being used that have no calls to them and like dead addresses. It's all basically wasted state which is a concern for a chain that's super [ __ ] quick like us

because uh data is just a lot of data right you guys know that as a as a platform right it's a lot of data it's like Salana Salana has a lot of data because it's a fast chain um but Salana's advant advantage is they use programs and programs can be like like the metaplex guys right they have a single SPL program that is used by everyone instead of having 150 deployments 150,000 deployments of SPL22 or whatever u but that Ross guy created singleton contract which is like an EVM equivalent of the same thing that would uh knock that down a lot. And so we are also while even though we have the capacity to do all this crazy high-end stuff, we're also looking to do stuff that like Ethereum mainet is looking to do as like a gas golfing optimization thing so that we have both ends of the

spectrum that are leaned into. So like there's stuff like that that people can do or will be able to do on the chain to just like really lean into what we have. >> Ross's um ZAM, right? >> Yeah. Have you used it? I've been meaning to use it. >> I have used it before. I used and I used Nani. It's okay. Like >> it's very cheap if that makes sense. Like the >> Yeah. >> I mean, the thing is that there's no like on Ethereum when you try something out, it's there's nothing like wow, this is like life-changing. It's just like instead of being $2, it's like 13 cents, which is fantastic, but it's also like on any other place I'm paying a cent or sub a cent. So, it's like

>> Okay. >> But it was very impressive and I liked this. I I like Nani a lot when it originally launched. Um I haven't checked it out since. I don't know if you're familiar. It's like a AI agent for swaps and stuff. Um it launched before like the huge AI agent boom on on Salana and like an >> like bankerbot. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I would recommend checking that one out first and then checking out Zam because Nani was pretty cool. Um, it creates like smart contract wallets for you. Does a bunch of random stuff. Whatever you wanted to do, it does it. It's interesting. Um, I I didn't look too much into the technicals on either of those, which is why I can't give you a very interesting answer to like is it cool? Um, like on the user side,

>> bro, even even the price difference because like like yeah, the difference you see on on Ethereum may not sure $13 to to 12 cents like that that may not be a huge unlock. It may it makes things a little bit better, but it's still like not as cheap as some of these other fast chains. But then if you have that same magnitude of decrease on a chain that is already 1 cent and it goes from 1 cent to a fraction of a fraction of a cent, right? And then you can do that stuff at scale. Like now you have that infrastructure underlying which can actually bring on like market makers to utilize the stuff on chain which is like the thing that we even today are having to make sure we optimize our gas between like one letting these market makers come on chain and operate high frequency

trading and we're like we're even still playing with um our gas model to where like it may may have some special tweaks specifically for high frequency traders um so that they have like a fast lane that allows for them to to like come on chain frankly. Um, but still early days. But like if those kind of optimizations lead to something like that, make it more realistic, like that's a huge unlock for the users. Even if it isn't like them directly making the swap, it allows for tighter spreads. It allows for, you know, deeper liquidity, like all that [ __ ] >> Completely agree. Also like uh I hope I didn't come off like a dick because I I realize like I spent quite a bit of time being upset with Ethereum but like I shouldn't be upset with Ethereum if they're launching like because the thing

is this Ross Ross spent yeah >> time building out like these apps which are clearly innovative like clearly trying to work on if because one of the things that I guess like we have on the research side sometimes with Ethereum is that the existing like founders and protocols are quite large and they don't really need the to innovate as much as like some competitors have to because like you said like for you guys Avon really has to innovate as much as possible because someone could bring in av3 AV v4 trusted contracts like we saw this with Hyperlid they have hyperlend it's just like another team forked it so like Avon really has to work really hard um so you see it on new chains versus like on Ethereum everything's kind of slow moving on innovation side um so I think it's very interesting that they're

like still working on it and people are spending like hours and hours of their day trying to optimize something from 2 to 13 cents And then an idiot like me is like, "Oh, that's actually not that impressive." Like, it's not true. It is quite impressive. I hope I didn't come off with that. >> Yeah. I mean, we're seeing this on Salana actively with prop amms, right? They're consistently trying to undercut each other. And so, like, if you enhance that dynamic where the pricing for like HFT or algorithmic traders or market makers is further reduced um probably for trading on purpose as well, right?

Then it it makes that type of operation more feasible. Um, so you're more likely, I feel like, to see more of that type of activity that we're kind of starting to see fostered on um, at least Salana, maybe maybe some other places, but the prop amm thing has really started to pop up there. >> I'm I'm glad you brought up per because I mean, as much as optimization is definitely necessary, especially on Ethereum, I would pay double, triple, four times if I can just stop clicking twice, right? And that's why, >> bro, what is taking wallets so long for 7702?

What is going on? >> I I see these charts of it getting adopted, but then I never see any actual program using it that I use at least. >> You know what the adoption is? I saw someone break down the numbers on on a Dune dashboard. I think it's like 85% rugs like literally like like quick deploy like scam scam transactions. >> Why Why are these scammers so good to innovate? Why are they so quick to innovate? It's it's like tech industry getting advanced by porn and what's the other one? It's it's always like porn and gambling are like always on the vanguard of everything. Scammers in our industry are on the vanguard of like adopting tech because it's new ways to trick people in ways that they are not familiar with and they don't know they're being tricked. So like they're there.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. Um in terms of optimizations for pers, I assume you're also doing uh priority cancels, right? This is something that relates to the fast line or is this not possible? So you can't actually do priority cancels in like a we're going to be FIFO to start and then we'll have a priority uh mechanism at some point. Uh so for us like the like if you think back to first principles of why the the cancel orders or pri prioritization is there is because market makers want to avoid um they want to avoid toxic flow from other market makers, right? So they do that just so they can frontr run each other frankly. So we can't do that unless we identify those people or put in a speed

bump and we don't put in any speed bumps. So we're exploring some alternative methods that actually allows uh these market makers to identify each other uh and then avoid each other intentionally um knowing that who is who is making trades because then you can put in the trades and avoid taking or picking off each other. Obviously you can still have malicious people come in there but uh we have some other stuff in place because we don't want to intentionally slow down the chain, right? We want to be as as fast as as possible on all fronts. So, it's currently what we're exploring, but it won't be cancelled priority. >> Makes sense. Um, how is Did you guys finish up Mega Mafia, too?

>> Is it done like the You do like a meeting. >> Ask Mark. He was there. He got to come and hang out. He was in Copenhagen with us for like a week and a half. >> What What are some some favorites? Do you have any favorites you want to list off? Mark or Brad? Or maybe you have to be neutral, but I don't know. >> Did you actually get to like Did you get to you didn't get to experience the full suite or like get to like that? you talk like >> I I I I mean I was there for three days. I met who was there at the time. Um >> I don't have to be neutral. Um so maybe from cohort 2. I mean I I liked I I think the obvious one is Cap. Um what's the name of this one who was

looking to do Tur Turkish LRA? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. They haven't been revealed yet, but yeah, they're they're doing interested. Yeah, it's a basis trade on the Turkish lera. It's basically Athena, but for for that trade, >> we're cutting rates on the Turkish LRA. We went from 45% to 44 and a half%. So, it's coming that way. I don't know if this is sustainable. >> Yeah, it's crazy. Like, they showed the back testing of like how how large this trade is and how people have held up for the last couple years. It's it's frankly ridiculous. Um, but yeah, it's a it's a team with very strong connections within the industry to like be able to bring that to market.

Yeah, when I talk to them, they seem uniquely well placed to tackle the market. Um, both from a personal like experience side, personal side, as well as the tech side of obviously with our Mega Youth. >> Yeah, say that. I'll say the one for me is uh Blitzo is one I'm pretty excited about. And this is Blitzo and then there's another one that's to be revealed that Mark didn't even see that I think is going to blow the pants off a lot of people because there's some big names in it. Uh but the Blitzo one is uh they was revealed in the first little cohort is so we have the second cohort and we have three batches in the cohort.

We're releasing them in phases or revealing them in phases and the big one from the first batch reveal was Blitzo and Blitzo is gamified payments where it's a team that is taking just like your normal payment flow, right? you walk up to a um a whatever ex uh cashier and you tap your phone do whatever but or at the end of a restaurant and at that moment you have the ability to do additional things and they just got a really slick UX UI and uh they're turning that moment into a thing like into a viral memeable actionable enjoyable uh activity with you and your friends. Um and then the team's just really good. So, we're excited to see that come to market because it's kind of it's new, different, um, and consumer

focused. >> Mark, how come they flew you out? >> Was they Brad? >> They did not. >> He surprised us. >> I I booked the flight and flew out. Um, >> yeah, >> I think another team who I met I like I like the uh was Ubital. um like with combining TES with broadband and yeah I thought I thought that one was pretty interesting too. >> Yeah, their moat was surprising to me which is so like what they're like it's a edge compute deepen like everyone gets broadband [ __ ] Uh, and their unique moat is that inside of every phone, obviously there's a SIM card. So whether whether it's physical or an EIM, uh they

like basically worked for a couple years to get in with the I want to say like Qualcomm guys like actually write code and be able to like get access to the code inside your SIM cards and they turn that into a TE and because they can turn that into a TE it means you can actually do some verifiable edge compute so that like now you can guarantee the contribution to the network in a deepen network uh and actually like avoid some of the civil problems that a lot of these these deepen projects have. So like they're doing that to just bring broadband basically anywhere. >> I think even if they don't like expand or verticalize themselves like just the licensing on that proprietary stuff enough is enough for them to like just grow.

>> Oh, maybe I said too much. >> We will silence you. >> You're gonna get embarrassed. Um >> what do you guys Yeah. What you guys been trading these days? Like like Okay, enough about us. Like I got liquidated. I got liquidated on a soul long last night because I got greedy and reopened it. Um, but I'm still so >> Let's get into it before I let you run the trades. Uh, we will do a quick shout out to today's sponsors for the stream. Uh, Aptos Bitcoin Defi is heating up on Aptos with nearly 400 million in BTC assets on chain. Aptos users can now earn yield on their Bitcoin via Echo BTC and OKX's XBTC without the typical bridge risks and high fees. Thanks again to Aptos for sponsoring today's stream

as well as Igen Cloud. Is your treasury losing value to inflation? Learn how to make digital assets like Ethan Soul productive with uncorrelated protocol-driven staking rewards. For CFOs, Dats and Corporate treasures, the path to integrating liquid staking and restaking should be riskmanaged and aligned with long-term strategic goals. The productive treasury report from liquid collective and IENC cloud outlines practical adoption and a forward-looking vision for the role of the modern treasury as a strategic enabler of new technology. Read the productive treasury report today by following the link in today's show notes. All right, we'll get back into it. Brad, sorry for cutting you off there. I do actually want to hear about your trades. Um, and I'd love to for us to get into that one. Um, you were saying you lost some money on sold though.

>> I did. Yeah, I got greedy. I had it 20x long and like uh into the the FOMC come out and I was like, okay, sick. Just ride this thing for a little bit and then I closed it. I was like, I don't want to get greedy. I want to go go uh go to sleep on this cuz like this is I'm honestly not a big trader. So, like now that I'm I'm just like yeing into 20 X's. I was like, I don't want to sleep on this thing. Uh, and then I did. Woke up, market's green. I got caught FOMO. I was like, [ __ ] man. I shouldn't have closed it and knew whatever. So, I opened up another one, went to sleep on that one and woke up and it was gone. So, uh, yeah, but thankfully I took a couple shorts on the same uh same trade

to like uh, you know, catch some downside or cap some of the downside. >> But yeah, what do you >> You were just trading that you were I was just asking, you were just trading the FOMC or were you like were you trading soul originally like around the DAT trade or Yeah, I mean obviously you like you guys put out a great report on the uh Salana DeFi, right? You look at you look at Kyle Sani's his port codes and see like okay where is he going to deploy the $1.5 billion uh into the Salana ecosystem. So like one you have the pressure where he front ran Salana the Salana buys like you have these other dats that are coming. It's like, okay, I think that you can probably run a lowle long and just like ride Salana for the next probably couple weeks, like just

catch that trade. As as predictable as it is, I still think it's like the size is so big that you just it's kind of like the ETH that trade, right? Um, and then Salana and DeFi. So, like looking at a few things that I trust and and are uh comfortable with. And then pump is the obvious one within not defi, but DeFi adjacent, right? because everything it's going to be doing is going to flow into Cheeto and and probably prop up this a few of these other other um applications. So, I'm broadly just looking at that sector, frankly. >> Yeah, I um I have some thoughts on this. Um specifically, not my thoughts, these are Noah's thoughts. He shared them on the live stream last time. So, um >> the that trade >> uh compared to Eve, I feel like it was

kind of front ran. um like the original 1.5 like very obviously as well because it bottomed before everything else they ran it up a 100 bucks like on from one >> whatever 140 to 200 um I still thought >> do you know who freaked me out about this effort Capital are you familiar with effort Capital Brad >> of course yeah dude >> coming >> do you know do you know his history >> no I don't >> he comes from the Vchain streets >> oh yeah I do know this actually yeah held it all down and he that's his like story that he brings up like his old man story you know >> he and I go back to then like we like back I bought Vchain bags in 2017 rode

the [ __ ] down brought it back up in 2021 still had my bag and like yeah like that's like a lot of these old names like I was back in the day watching Twitter and Reddit and that's how I came across D way back in the day. >> Yeah. So after I didn't know this, he he mentions V chain a lot, but I guess he doesn't go into the detail because it's a little painful for him. >> Um I will push him on it next time he's on the like really get him started out. Um but he was like very bullish Camino. >> Um which stressed me out a bit because typically >> when he's really bullish something it like >> tell him I rotated out of coin. I I'm slowly going coin to to hood. I think that one has uh um losing confidence.

>> Yeah, >> trade coin. >> I think he's been trading it as well. I don't know. >> Yeah, >> cap likes to go crazy. Even this is the thing is when he hits a winning trade, he'll he'll hold it. He say no, it's like by 2030 it's like another thousandx >> or he'll start like doing the short-term options on top of that. >> Yeah, >> honestly like me for real. >> Yeah, legit Michael. Um, yeah, Camino is a pretty clear one there. I guess like JUP as well, probably with Jupand. Um, what is the other one? JTO, I don't know. I don't like JTO.

>> Drift caught a huge bid. Um, I think it went up like 150% the last like three days or something ridiculous. Um, uh, I saw also uh, Sanctum. Sanctum also caught a little bit of a bid. Um, >> they're pivoting. >> Not pivoting, but they're expanding their business model as well. So, >> what are they doing? >> What are they doing? >> Um, I um it was on the Lightseed podcast, the second best podcast that we offer. Um Um BA basically, I would say they're going to do more of what Cheeto does.

This is what they're looking to do, like more on the transaction level side of things. um because maybe their um LST margin and AMM wasn't giving them enough of a premium, they were still pretty low cap. But I think naturally as they like partner with a lot more validators, they started getting deeper into that like transaction level processes and and it just kind of like happened naturally for them more organically. >> Okay, I can respect that. Whenever you said like going LSTs to like me, I was like that doesn't make any lot any sense to me at all. But then okay if he's they're working with validators understanding the stack a little bit more and seeing where their pain points are maybe how they can optimize that.

>> Yeah exactly and I think like with their I think Binance's soul is now the second largest LSD after Cheto and you know that came up through Sanctum. So um you know I think they're just in a lot more of those conversations and when other exchanges perhaps see that you know it just it starts to just organically improve from there. Is that just free money for exchanges then? Like because you just allow you just take whatever five 10%. I don't know what the commission rates are on soul these days, but >> it's just free money. So I imagine all of them just launch it and they all launch for them. I >> I got to imagine it's a ton. I don't know if Coinbases is still the same, but I know they were taking like 20% of pretty much every staking network that they were

>> the regular ones are probably half them because Coinbase likes to double whatever fee they can get because they >> Yeah, I mean, you're probably right. >> They crap the American population so they can just do whatever. >> That's like Apple's take fee on the app store. But um just to rewind it back to like Kamani's do that trade I I mean apart from like or dots MNAV blah blah blah I think like this might be uh this might be a a vehicle that people can substitute as an ETF like you want broad exposure to Salana Salana ecosystem and you don't want to you don't want to size yourself you don't want to go to the chain and buy each one individually and you know maybe you don't know how to then just buy the DAT it's like a pseudo

ETF and So thoughts I I I see I see thoughts >> argue about this because this to me makes very little sense because soul is is g soul has an like it's going to have ETFs right in October like it's 99% guaranteed and like we saw the EH ETF didn't get that much volume in the early days. I assume the soul ETF will not get that much volume in the early days compared to >> ETF got a lot of volume from gray scale selling at all >> now. Okay. But like why the [ __ ] why would any like I assume by the that you mean we're creating a D that we're going to put a bunch of random soul not random but like soul D5 projects and a Camino Jupiter

drift etc. I feel like that's like the amount of size that would go into that would be very very small right unless like Sani starts putting in his own stuff into it which in that case is like kind of incestuous even for him. No >> like at that point you're just turning it into a hedge fund. know and then you're just buying direct exposure to these things >> quite >> yeah and like yeah the thing like I don't think they'll be doing direct exposure like he's saying or a basket of them like yes like they're probably more flexible that they can do that because you're basically just trusting the management team to do whatever the hell they want and then like whether that's diluting you or raising debt or buying tokens and whatever their goal should be or at least how most of them are

articulating it is we just buy soul and we're going to strategically place that soul in the ecosystem so that it earns yield. That yield gives us the ability to operate above MNAV, which then gives us the ability to raise more money to then buy more soul to then like like it is still purely a sole play, but they're utilizing DeFi to generate yield to justify a MNAP above one. Um, and then you're you're basically just banking on the the actual management team >> when the last thing here is didn't sorry Danny just like didn't Tommy kind of >> um mess with the balance of the ecosystem that he created by introducing Worldcoin.

>> Yes. >> Because if he had just done E, you know, E's great 56x arrow, you know, he goes on Squawkbox says E is going 56x. That works. But like if you're introducing other things into I guess like with soul it's a bit more relevant because you're like soul is great soul defi is even better. I don't know Mark I I hate disagreeing with you but >> the the last point I'll add is like it feels like if you're saying you know a lot of the the speak has been around getting the yield but you know if we're if we're basically just waiting for you know yield you know yield included ETFs to come along for ETH soul etc. I mean, is is this is just kind of like a front

running those vehicles coming to market? >> I would agree. Yeah, totally. And I I've said that on the timeline and people pushed back that said that like the the actual structure of the vehicle has taxes associated with it that make it less efficient at doing that. So, there's some overhead there. Um, but I've seen push back on that too. And I'm not deep enough to actually say whether that is something that can stand up. But like that was the big push I got was that these vehicles are less tax efficient. Therefore, like you have to out earn pretty significantly to be just like a straight up staking ETF. >> Yeah. And it's definitely a lot of front running because I was, you know, Solana normally trades in line in correlation with REV with DEX volumes especially and to some extent um application revenue.

Since late August, it's not been trading in line with any of those fundamental features. it the price has gone up and some of those things are are flat or you know worst case down. So I wonder what happens if the flows aren't as much as the expectations seem to be. Um or if you know whether or not they are I mean are we going to see a big retrace a big retracement um we haven't seen that in ETH yet. >> Yeah. Can't they issue four bill now? Didn't they just do that? >> They as in Yeah. The trading volume's quite low though, which is what what would allow them to sell shares into the market. Um, >> who said this? It's like 23 mil. No, >> it's like Yeah, it's in the it's in the,

you know, 8 figure range, whereas like Bitmine's peak days were billions, you know four five six seven eight billion in trading volume a day. So, they were definitely able to like pull from that. >> A lot of dispersion for sure. One thing I will say is that about Kyle Sami is I think he'll make sure that it's figured out. Like he's >> he's a much better talker than >> like like Tom Lee is going to come off as like a crazy person. Like the the sailor he's doing his best sailor impression like mostly because of the reasons that you guys harp on or have over the last like couple years, months, right? Like there's no like fundamental numbers that you can look at to say like oh ETH deserves to be $66,000

right like you have to go oh stable coins are worth a gajillion therefore it's worth a gajillion and but there's no like direct correlation to that and whereas like the what you guys have been honing in on with like the rev creation all that stuff is how can we actually quantify the underlying to justify uh like the above price and then that is where you can um have a better conversation with, you know, people that are used to putting [ __ ] in spreadsheets and saying, "Oh, look, it's a 22x multiple." Like, cool. I I used I you know what that is and I'm I'm fine bidding it. Um I think he'll tell that story much better.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I agree. It's easier. The Salana story is a little easier on that end. I will say the the selling talk is still, you know, over the top, but you know, when you got to sell, you got to sell. So, I guess I get that. But the certainly Tom Lee's like, you know, last time at 54x, so I don't know what'll happen this time, but you know, we've seen the past. >> I know that. Yeah, >> that's that's pretty egregious. >> This is the same stuff the Bitcoiners did years before and then the gold bugs laughed at them. So, >> you can you can meme these things into existence. There's there's precedent for it. So, >> which is why I actually even I sent a DM to um Sean Ryan Adams yesterday, two days ago. um where he he did a response

to like they've been harping on the slashing stuff recently and like he him coming over the top of like listen guys the big the grown-ups are talking people who actually have slashing enabled in a proof ofstake network like and like really just like going over the top of the stuff and I sent him a deal I was like bro like I know we go back and forth on the timeline I fud the blob stuff all the time and like they tell me it's it's dumb I tell them they're dumb but I was like but this is like Ethereum legitimately needs this if it wants to achieve the upper uh upper echelon of what this stuff is or like meme this stuff into existence and it's like you're playing the role well and I think it's necessary. So like you you're doing what needs to be done. So GG's on that.

>> I agree. I mean I it it's weird. It's like I agree that that's what you have to do but at the same time you know kind of dislike the nature of it. But regardless I mean I see accounts you know I see pretty large like non-crypto accounts on Twitter now talking about yeah Bit Miner ETH to the moon. Like I just started following this thing a couple months ago. You know, Tom Lee's a genius and it's like they they've been fostering like exactly that type of individual. So, >> it works. They like Ryan because like what happened was that remember when they said like, "Oh, what's the GDP of whatever?" Like they >> whatever that was like they did that we made fun of them right inside the industry because like you just took the GDP of something and made it a price point and but then a day later on like a

Yahoo post or something I got forwarded a push from Google. They're like, "Hey, here Ethereum is going to 100 gillion because it's going to be the equivalent of the GDP of of oil." And it's like, "Dude, it works. It's [ __ ] It's propaganda. It's great. We need it." >> Yeah. We actually had David Hoffman on the show like maybe that same week and we we kind of talked about it how >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like we get it. We get we get the game. Um Well, some of us do. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, I think both are on our end. I think like what one thing about like the the actual narrative stuff versus the fake narrative stuff like the 56x versus the RA the way that

Mark mentioned like it's been front run etc. Um crypto likes to get attached. Um retail within CT I think retail probably generally likes to get attached including me as we are all retail here. um likes to get attached to this idea of like oh everything needs to trade on revenues because like now everyone knows about revenue and rev and fees and fundamentals and stuff and then Tom Lee will come along and you know shill EA as it's going to go I'm not saying it's not going to go 56x but it might to boomers and then they all allocate in or whoever is buying E at that point um and then it'll go up so it'll be interesting to see. Are you um did you guys trade Aster?

>> I don't >> I avoided I didn't have assets on Binance. Uh I was looking to short um uh Avantis because Avantis called the same trade, right? I was like, "Oh, it's bases per DEX that was like it had a TGE. Everyone was was screenshotting how much money they make on the farm." So, I was like, "Okay, I want to short this thing because I feel like like looking at the volumes and the the fees it generated was just nowhere nowhere close to like an actual profitable thing." Uh, but I couldn't find anywhere that gave me the had it on the listed on a perex and I didn't make the trade over to Aster, but same [ __ ] right? You you're anticipating CZ coming in and cringing the charts because he wants to go against Hyperlid. I'm hearing rumors or saw rumors that he was like straight up

trying to get Hyperlid banned in Asia outright, which is like I guess the front end. Uh, so like, yeah, it's a play, but it's a short trade for sure. Sun Pump, like Justin Sun is doing the same thing. Sun Pump or Sun Per, they just got launched and they're doing a road show for it. >> I um I don't know about the Asia thing. Um, I also heard the same rumor, I think, and then everybody started posting about it. Um, >> yeah, >> I hope it's not true. I don't know about the short. I I'm very scared of shorting anything that Justin Sun or Changpang Xhao are involved in. I feel like it's like that they could remotely be involved in. I feel like it's not something you want to short like

>> or or the base team now too. >> Oh, did did they run the the stops on Avantis? I just mean they they've they've leaned more in this direction similar to what B&B has done and Justin Sun has done historically where they're, you know, picking their ecosystem favorites and uh they drum up the attention for them. You know, the Zora promotions and then the coin pumps a [ __ ] ton. It's like you don't really want to be on the other side of Brian Armstrong tweeting out tickers for his, you know, stuff on his platform.

>> Yeah. The thing is you can be as smart as you want, but you're gonna get your ass handed to unfortunately. That that was something I was going to say is like we and I think it's probably because B&B doesn't get talked about in the west so much. >> Is that true? I feel like people just keep saying that. They're like, "Oh, we don't." >> It's true though because >> every pod. >> No, but it's like to the extent that you everyone knows about Tom Lee and he's like talking about 54x and meanwhile B&B hits a thousand a coin and like >> the only the only thing that people are talking about is like I haven't looked at B&B in you know five years. How is it at a thousand a coin? It's like Yeah, because >> it's just not like covered or you know

thought. >> Same as Tron. Tron's been grinding up for the last three years. Like it's just been up only just left or right. Yeah. >> Yeah. Same [ __ ] It's like no one No, you don't transact on the chain. Like I didn't have funds over there. I think I've bridged over there once or maybe tried one little uh shitcoin, but like I didn't have anything to even access. At least I have a little bit like AVAC to like shitcoin something. I didn't have anything. >> I I've never been over to Tron. zero. >> Yeah, me neither. >> I've never used Tron, but I have used BNB. >> BNB >> up.

>> Yeah, after the the buy bit announcements. >> No idea why, >> dude. >> They've been running it up. A lot of exchange tokens actually like OKB as well. If you've seen that one, a bunch of these exchange coins have just been like >> CRO Crypto.com as well. Yeah. >> Yeah. They've all been rocketing >> on the >> Can we What? >> I can't I don't know if you told me this in private. I won't share it just in case, but like there's a reason that these tokens go up like this. I don't know if he shared it with me privately or if it was on the bot, so I have to be careful. But Danny, did he talk about it last time it was on the bot? Like the exchange tokens and how they work?

>> Who? >> Ian Unsworth >> from Cairo's research. >> I don't know if Ian talked about it specifically, but I feel like a lot of the re like we know a lot of the reasons that they do pump generally is that they own a lot of the supply and then they make big announcements and they get retail excited again. And you know, like Crypto.com for example, like, "Yeah, let's burn 70% of the supply. Let's reissue all of the supply we burned." Okay, let's burn it again. Like >> they can just manufacture these events to pump the price. >> And didn't they didn't they partner with like WFI or some [ __ ] too? >> I think Yes. Crow and Worldi are partnered.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's >> I think there's also a Bonk Fun partnership with World QSD1. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. between that like when the with the mantle stuff melting up. I I decided to go look at the actual chain and it's still there there's zero activity there. It's basically dead. So like you're and you're valuing it entirely based on the buy bit exchange and like how much mantle you need to acquire to get feed reduction and [ __ ] Um I don't know how much that's worth but that's what's that's where the bid's coming from. We um we wrote about it a while back maybe like two years ago. So, I I need to go and look into it. Not to, but like maybe I need to go back and look into

it. I um one of those chains that I just ignore. I've um with the I mean, you would know this better than us, Brad. Like, you need to really really distinguish yourself because there's a million of these that have come out and there's probably going to be half a million of these that will come out um over the next few years. Obviously, >> just chains. >> Yeah, just chains. Like so many chains constantly coming out. We had a huge burst of L2s. Um, >> well, their thing was their treasury, right? You're like, "Oh [ __ ] they're going to deploy their $1 billion dollars of of assets into this ecosystem and goose it." But they never really did or at least it wasn't enough to move the needle.

>> I mean, it's also their own token. So, their asset is in their own token. Um, so that I don't know that was like to me that whole thing was always a bit fake, right? It's like, yeah, they have they have one and a half billion dollars, but like it's in it was in Bittow. I guess it's in mantle now. It's like it doesn't really matter. >> Hold on. I think they I think even if you take out the the MNT, it's still one of the largest. Like if you take out Let's see. >> Yeah, they have a good bit of like just ETH and stable coins, right? Like it's quite >> of their own though. Yeah. But yeah, most most of it is the native token, but they do still have I think the last time I checked maybe a couple hundred mil in

Ethan stable coins. I could be wrong though. >> Yeah, looking now >> if I if you rank them by total excluding own tokens, they are fourth across the entire ecosystem behind Ethereum Foundation which has a billion. I guess they're including Ether, Sharlink, Gaming, Gollum Network, and then Mantle at 275 mil. If you >> Gollum is >> Gollum is the guys that raised E a while back right? >> Yeah. Just sat on it. Yeah. >> Long time ago. >> That's a great protocol because they've made everybody Well, >> you know, not a great protocol, but >> All right, let me uh I'm going to jump in here one last time and shout out our sponsors for today's

stream. Thanks again to Aptos. With nearly 400 million BTC assets on chain supported by a secure, fast, and affordable MVM environment, Aptos has become the BTC 5 growth chain. Appto users can now earn yield on their Bitcoin via Echo's ABTC and OKX's XBTC without the typical bridge risks and high fees. With support from Ekko, OKX and STAX's SBTC, Aptos is the best place to go for best-in-class yield on Bitcoin. Appreciate the support Aptos as well as IEN Cloud. Corporate and protocol treasuries face a major challenge today. Cash and traditional instruments are losing ground to inflation. A new industry report from liquid collective and iOC cloud lays out the next evolution of the digital asset treasury. Moving beyond just passively holding Bitcoin to actively making digital assets like ETH and soul productive through liquid staking and

restaking for CFOs, DATs and corporate treasuries. The path to integrating liquid staking and reststaking should be riskmanaged and aligned with long-term strategic goals. The productive treasury report outlines practical adoption and a forward-looking vision for the role of the modern treasury as a strategic strategic enabler of new technology. read the productive treasury report today by following the link in today's show notes. Um, one last thing I was going to bring up that was just slightly related to what we were talking about is um, prediction markets have become a pretty big thing. Uh, I saw this one. I thought it was kind of funny. Um, who will Trump pardon in 2025? And CZ is actually number one on this list right now at 47% chance. Um, just kind of interesting like I don't know. He he he came he came back to like Twitter in force recently

and we see a bunch of B&B coins pump and BNB hitting a thousand and I don't know I feel it feels like every couple of months they they've figured out this strategy where uh you know CZ can can name some tickers and maybe fill a meme coin or two and it pumps all the the B&B metrics uh and kind of goes AFK. >> Two and a half mil is also nothing to scoff at. Like that's not it's not bad volume. for something that >> I assume hasn't >> Roger Ver is number two on there also >> somewhat relevant >> George Santos is number three >> yeah you want to look at that Steve Bannon SPF at seven this this would be absurd >> yeah I don't think it would be >> if if SPF got got the pardon from Trump

that would just >> he has the same odds as well almost the same odds as Diddy so we'll see >> these names Jesus yeah the volume drops off at the bottom there Joe Exotic >> Joe Exotic Do you guys So since CZ was at the top maybe thing, do you guys remember like what was three months ago where we found out he doesn't even know how to trade on chain? >> Yeah. And that was the start of their prior like um run >> fun [ __ ] right? Yeah. They were like, "Oh yeah, like launchpads are cool. This is the launch pad we're going to use."

>> It was I thought that was so interesting where he was like, "Yeah, I've never made a DEX trade before." And so he was like, so he he makes test token and then like they run it up to 500 mil >> or whatever. It's very interesting like I don't know CZ touches something and um it just like >> million dollars. Yeah. >> Motion. >> Um I will say I find it kind of hard to believe that he hasn't made a DEX trade ever. I I don't think that's ever pos like to me CZ doesn't seem like the kind of guy that wouldn't touch a deck. I mean, he's building a sex since day one.

He's just always created on his own platform, maybe. I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's that crazy. I feel like they they never really had that close. Like, they launched BSC and >> Pancake Swap. They pushed Pancake Swap. >> Yeah, but he didn't he didn't make it. >> Yeah, he didn't make it. But surely he used it at least once, right? >> Because there's like two options here, right? Like CZ is either like trying to say, "I never used it. This is the first time I'm using it. test token $500 million market cap you know or the second option is like okay CZ like he always like Brett said he's always been a sex guy um he just never used it he became too big before like they launched BSC I was like I I never need to use

this like >> which one >> I think the reality is a little bit of both probably right like he probably maybe he did use it maybe he didn't but like probably didn't really ever need to touch on chain like Binance was so large by the time they made BSC that >> right >> it's like you know the centralized exchange is making them so much freaking money that's probably took all of this time but I also believe that like and it's definitely like a little bit of a marketing stunt to like have a push to go out on Twitter and say like yeah I'm going to use Pancake Swap and I'm going to use like our launchpad for memes and I'm going to like create a token. They definitely played into it. So it's I think it's a little bit of both. Yeah.

>> I think they do well though. I think >> very convenient. >> Yeah, I think they did well. I mean, we'll see. The rumors I've heard about CZ Asia once. >> He already went to jail once, man. What are they going to do to him? >> Scary guy, you know, like CZ is a scary guy. Objectively, he's a scary guy. >> That's what I hear. Yeah. >> Best of luck. Best of luck to everybody. >> Is that why the hyperlquid stuff scared you? Like you hoping he's not gunning for him?

Uh I don't know. I I think I I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually gunning for them first of all. Like that's all that the thing is that I have no experience from that day, right? Like I'm compared to like some of the people who know like CZ and his heyday, very active. Um if it's true, I feel like he kind of learned he learned by experience, right? based on his experience in the US, it's like, well, if they're going to do that to me over here, maybe I need to, you know, crack the whip back at home.

>> Yeah, that's what it's also. I mean, he went hard with FDX. Like, do like that was >> Yeah, he did. >> Like, nobody says, "Whoopsie, I didn't know how much debt they had. We're actually not going to buy them, right?" Like, you you get in you get information from the team and then you go public with it to like end your biggest competitor. that's very clearly like designed to do something. >> Do you remember watching that [ __ ] on chain? He's like says a tweet and then you get like everyone starts like, "Oh my god, someone just moved X amount from here to there." Like like they don't have the reserves. That was I remember that in real time that [ __ ] was Yeah, >> I do feel like in that scenario, I mean, they were they were probably pretty doomed regardless. I mean, at the point

with the amount of money that they were missing like >> somebody somebody was going to notice the hole like that. I mean, people were taking money off other exchanges at the time too. >> Well, they could have backed it with whatever the FTT sale was going to be. And I think that's what they were trying to do, right? Like they were shopping this FT around. >> Um, and then if the large if your largest competitor goes and says, "Well, this is worthless. I I'll bet this when it's like a cent. I'm not going to buy it for 22 bucks or something." Um, like then you are finally cooked. Um, but yeah, I mean, they were doomed anyway. like they didn't have the assets and they were trying to back somebody.

>> [ __ ] knew it. FTT is up 20% the last seven days. >> Makes sense. That's a that's a pretty good like riskon indicator as well as like Farcoin is a pretty good risk on indicator. Um >> coin is a pretty good one. >> Yeah. Anytime those are up, you're like, "Okay, something like we're doing well right now." Um although you can probably also tell that when all of the assets go up, so it's not >> that's a big block prediction. FTT DAT to kind of like mark the the peak of the degeneracy. >> Not FTT that, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get really really degenerate. Like the thing is like a lot of people were like, "Oh, like we're getting like solds. That's like too degenerate." I'm like, "No, bud. Like Soul, Bonk, these are like these people

just have like a lot of money. Um they're large investors. Like if you think of Bonk, it's the same investor base as Soul. It's like it's privilege for them to spin something up, find a chairman, run this >> when we're getting like really really stinky like >> maybe not FTT, but >> I don't know at that level like Luna, FTT, um, Wolf Swap, that's when you're like, okay, I'm like, you know, I need to get out of this market right now. Um, I don't think it's as bad as like people think. I mean now everybody like after the FOMC we're back up so people are like oh I guess like it wasn't that frothy I guess but um I think people forgot what froy looks like because we

haven't had that like although we did like we were pumping ordinals and ruins to like billions of dollars and it's it was impossible to buy right like you >> I left so much on the table with that [ __ ] >> yeah same and I think a lot of people did and maybe the ancient Bitcoin whales actually came and bought and then dumped on us like we don't know But that's when it was like silly. I feel like bonk that isn't particularly silly. Although I'm sure like we'll go down 5% and someone will dunk on me and say, "Look, you were this was the local top or this."

>> We'll see. >> Yeah. >> No, I agree with that idea though. We like a lot of the you know like Mike Dudis and other notables are in a lot of these like early Salana projects and even the memecoin and even like Bonk as well. So, that one isn't too surprising to me. It would be more absurd to see like a fresh, you know, a fresh meme coin straight off of like a pump fund migration like, "Hey, we're spinning up a DAT next week." That would be kind of insane. >> Bonk is barely a memecoin as well, right? Like, it's more >> They have apps and you know, one of the biggest revenue generators in this entire space, right?

>> Yeah. Like with multiple products. They have a trading terminal. They have their own bot. Although I'm not sure if they're exactly affiliated. I think it might >> The Launchpad does even more from them than Bonkbot does too. So, >> exactly. So, like I wouldn't I wouldn't be like upset about it. Commamino, etc. These are large very large protocols. I don't think they're getting at that, but if they got at that, I wouldn't like they're well connected. Um I think you got to worry later down the line, but we'll see. D, do you want to >> Yeah, we can call it there. Brad was happy to have you on today. feel like we should uh we'll have to we'll have to call on you more often. Uh this was a good conversation. Very fun. Uh Boach, I'll leave it up to you though uh if you

want to talk about the newsletter >> newslet. You're muted. He doesn't want to talk about it. >> Embarrassing things that can happen to the podcast. Um CRX research podcast. Can we restart? We can't. This is not This is live. Can we >> Yeah, go again. >> There we go. That's what I was looking for. >> Yeah, take two. >> ZX research newsletter is every day um the analyst team does a newsletter called the Xerox Research newsletter.

It's very good. It's like what we write on the Xerox research newsletter ends up becoming flash notes and reports that are given to the stuff. So, it's like actual content from us. It's what we're looking at. It's what's top of mind for us. It's like what we're looking um what we're interested in the market. It's our thoughts on the market. If you are not a subscriber, please subscribe. You can do it through the QR code. You can also search up Xerox Research newsletter Block Works on Google. Don't click the first link. That one's a scam. The second link is the correct link. Click on that. Subscribe. It's a good newsletter. I promise you won't be disappointed. Um, if I asked Ryan right now what he thinks of the newsletter, he would say it's free, but it shouldn't be. And that's really how we feel. It's

a very good newsletter. Highly recommend that you subscribe. If you have any feedback for the newsletter, you can always message me on Twitter and say, "Bock, this sucks. Can you guys write about this more? Can you guys not write about this more?" Um, and I'm always happy to oblige within limits. Um, but yeah, it's like it's kind of my baby at this point and we're going to pass it on eventually, but until it gets the amount of subscribers that I need, I can't. So, make sure to subscribe. >> Great, great, great ad read. Awesome app. Thanks for coming on again, Brad.

Um, if you want to plug anything, Zerox bread guy, Meg Eith, check them out. Otherwise, we will see you all next week. Enjoy your weekends. Touch some grass. Uh, have fun out there. >> You want to plug anything in? Do you want to plug anything, Brad? >> No, you got me, man. Mega Eve. >> Mega Eve. Brad got me. >> There it is. All right. We'll see you all next time. Peace. There it is. [Music]