Leveraging the Gitcoin Grants Stack with Meg Lister

Transcript

foreign [Music] welcome to the greenpillow.network podcast if you're just joining us we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers who are focused on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and is published every Tuesday and Thursday if you want to learn more visit our website at greenpill.network where you can download the green pill book for free join the Discord and become a member of your local greenpill.network chapter my guest today is Meg Lister Meg is a web 3 product leader who has worked in crypto for three years she was previously the VP of product and DOW Ops at Flipside crypto where she led metric

style in her previous life Meg led new product launches in ad Tech and e-commerce Meg on this episode talks about Bitcoin Grant stack which is the new product which allows you to take the power of Bitcoin grants and deploy it to any evm based Community basically a protocol and web app that allows you to determine what your community needs and deploy Capital to what your community needs starting with mechanisms like quadratic funding but also featuring mechanisms like direct grants which allow you to directly contribute to the grants in your ecosystem so basically just taking the power of Bitcoin grants and putting in the hands of any Community it's been two years but get coin has finally delivered a protocol that it feels good about and a product

that it feels good about for putting the hands of quadratic funding into anyone's community and I'm happy to say that it is now decentralized and modular credibly neutral and Democratic which is what we wanted to do when we shut down Bitcoin the company and get coin grants the sea grants platform centralized grants platform and made it into a decentralized platform so um before we get into this episode a disclaimer I am a co-founder of get coin actually built the first version of Bitcoin in my basement and so in this episode I play a little bit of podcast host but I also break the fourth wall and just talk about get coin stuff during the episode Another disclaimer I have a stakeholder in get coin and I do hold GTC um but I'm a big believer in bitcoin's

mission of funding what matters and want to see get coin success successful in the ecosystem so I think this is an interesting episode if you are charting in coursing and learning about bitcoin's Evolution if you're interested in funding what matters in your community then this is an interesting episode for you and also just charting the course of a company Bitcoin grants uh becoming a Dao in a product a centralized product becoming a decentralized modular protocol it's an example of that so if you're into those things and I think you will enjoy this episode with Meg Lister Peace Valley Dao is an open Global Collective working to finance and democratize the governance of synthetic biology Technologies to protect the future of our planet research and progress into synthetic biology is

critically constrained by the world of nation-state regulations and bureaucracy from middlemen but the potential that synthetic biology has for the world is massive it can produce a world in total harmony with nature we can grow stuff using cells like software it's awesome and the best part is we no longer have to pull carbon out of the ground to grow and maintain civilization don't you think we should be funding this Valley Dow does and that's what they're here to do to try and make the solar Punk World of Tomorrow a reality today so join Valley Dao right now and save the planet at valleydow.bio how you doing Meg I'm great how are you Milwaukee pretty good thanks let's get let's get into it what is bitcoin Grant stack oh glad you asked uh geek coin grit

stack is a decentralized app that allows anyone to create manage and run a grants round I almost said quadratic funding grants around there and I stopped myself because yes quadratic thinning is our bread and butter and we're going to talk about that all day today but we're also supporting other mechanisms so basically this is an app that anyone can run a quadratic funding ground or a Bitcoin grants round in and um I'm wondering how it works so who are you targeting who's the who's the product for yeah so we're targeting basically with three grants managers if you are working on a project and you have a community that is looking for more ways to get

involved and make their voices known and they're in your ecosystem or if you're trying to grow your community and find ways or things for people to do because you've just had an airdrop or an exciting event um or you're in the growth stage even and you're trying to get projects funded and off the ground a great solution for all of that is to run a grants round and to set up a grants program for your ecosystem and if you're looking to do that and you're probably really excited and really overwhelmed because it's really hard to do and there's a lot of things to manage and we're basically here to make your life easier uh how does it work say I'm running an ecosystem that has a treasury anywhere from tens of thousands of dollars to a billion dollar Treasury and I want to

deploy some of that through Grant stack how does how does that work yeah so first of all if you've got a billion dollar treasury let's definitely talk right first things first you need let's say 10 minutes and a wallet and you log in at manager.com Deco which is totally open if you're a grants manager and you want to create a round go there if you just want to check it out to have fun also go there and connect your wallet and we support a bunch of different chains and are always expanding so you can choose to run on ethereum optimism PGN etc etc um and first things you do is you create a program which is basically hey my name's Meg I'm going to run grants with

my friend Kevin and I'm going to add both of our wallet addresses as admins so great okay let's say that you're 90 seconds in and you're done setting up a program so next thing you do is you set up a round and around is something that is basically constrained by time and money so you set up the dates that you want to receive applications the dates that you want to receive Community donations as well as commit in writing to the amount of funding that you want to provide as well as the token you're going to use to provide funding um you check a couple of boxes that help us help you prevent Bots and spam in your round you click publish and all of you know five to ten minutes later you

have to play to Grants round on chain and so basically once I have a grand surround on chain what can I do with it there anything you want but the first thing you probably want to do is to get people to apply to your round um so your brand is going to go live on our grants home page um under the section for Builders who are looking for Grants programs um or places where you might send filters in your community to apply for Grants so you're going to publish a project to start receiving applications it'll live on the grants homepage at getcoin2 which is just some great publicity for your project and a great place for Builders who are looking for

opportunities and want three to go um once you start receiving applications you'll have kind of a swim Lane in the grandstack manager for you to review those and either approve or reject them and then once you've gotten through applications the fun part starts and this is where you engage your community to help decide where your grants funds actually go and it's a really meaningful way for your community to participate everybody loves to have opinions on how money should be spent and not only are they getting to make their voices heard like you're as a grants manager getting to harness like the collective intelligence of your ecosystem to determine the best things to fund yeah I'm wondering if we could talk a little

bit more about that I feel like I've given the quadratic funding explainer a billion times before and I'm wondering if you could just take us through how you explain what quadratic funding is and how it helps your Community Fund what matters yeah I'm a big believer in quadratic funding and I still feel like an imposter when I explain it um which is one of those things that um probably a lot of other people feel when they're using it too um and so I'm always trying to remind myself that it's actually pretty simple at its core um so quadratic funding is a way for your community to make their voices heard in a way that's meaningful and significant because it involves money but also doesn't allow money to steal a

show and so you're basically using your communities dollars as boats for where your matching funds should go and so let's say that I am a donor who is super passionate about the ecosystem and also we only have like five bucks to spend so I spend a dollar across five different projects and that's great that counts as one vote for each of them on the other hand you are a donor with very Deep Pockets who also cares enormously about the ecosystem and even though you can outspend me a hundred to one you can't out vote me a hundred to one because we take basically the square root of the donation that you make and we count that as a vote so if

you donate nine dollars towards the same project that's going to count as three votes so the the broader the support the bigger the match basically exactly yeah and um just real quick shout out to Zoe hits a Glenn wild and vitalik buterin who are the inventors of the mechanism the brains behind quadratic funding we're just one of the uh get coin is one of the apps in the ecosystem that that builds on top of it always like to give a shout out to the mechanism designers when I talk about qf so so Bitcoin has funded 18 rounds of Bitcoin grants as I understand it according to impact.getcoin.com it's it's done 50 million dollars worth of funding two point something million transactions so far and um Grand stack just allows me to

take the power of that what was working for the ethereum ecosystem and deploy it to my own Dao or evm based Community is my understanding is is that how you understand it yeah what I always tell people is gay coin did this thing over and over again and got really good at it and also realized that while we got really good at it everybody else was asking hey like what can we learn from you guys can we use the things that you've built because we started out super early and you guys started out super early I've been here four months um but trying to bootstrap the and grow the ethereum ecosystem and then as parts of that ecosystem grew into their own they were like great um now we're going it's like a Russian

nesting doll of funding public goods we're gonna fund the next layer down in our ecosystem and so it's such a like fulfilling and rewarding idea to me that we just keep funding and supporting these different layers of the ecosystem through different types of support and tooling first through the rage additional grants program and then by actually giving some of the original recipients of that program the tools to do it themselves one of the things that I've always sort of liked or just found kind of fun is that the alumni of the grants programs so you know say your Project X and you raised and get going around two through five you might now have a billion dollar towel and you're actually trying to allocate Capital your community and we've seen a lot of those projects go

back and give back to the main matching tool on the grants program but then also have their own grants programs to pay forwards there's sort of like a full cycle reciprocal relationship there yeah our first self-serve customer earlier this summer um they were amazing and I had never worked with them before and was like how did you guys get this idea they said oh we've been funded through the Greek coin grants program years ago and now we're growing our own ecosystem and paying it forward so Props to geom for doing that yeah the school um I really like the idea of bootstrapping an economy that's not just transactional if you do X I will do why uh but it's based off of these reciprocal social relationships where it's like you give without the

expectation of return and when that project succeeds you share in that success in the future I mean it just feels feels very regen which is what this podcast is all about um what's the grants program um the currents program is kind of the historical backbone of Bitcoin that presented the um idea and also the initial implementation and customer base for Grant stack so they're like the grand stack ogs in many cases the grants program started out um raising money to fund things that were important to bitcoin Community supporters and now they do the exact same thing but they use Grant stack in

order to do that got it so it's kind of like the showcase for the grand stack program it's the biggest customer of of Grant stack right now um I'll be curious to see if it ever becomes not the biggest customer of Grant's deck though if it gets if it gets surpassed by someone else using it yeah I think that uh I want them to always be our best customer but not our biggest customer if that makes sense the idea that we get to work so closely with a team that has such deep expertise and grants and gets to try all kinds of crazy things and fun important things is just such an awesome advantage to have as a product manager working in the space yeah totally well uh so Bitcoin grants round 18 just happened and that was run

on top of Grant stack how do you how do you feel like that went pretty good actually um I say this with the caveat that hey it's an early stage product we launched publicly earlier this summer um like the end of May beginning of June and so we're we're an early stage product that has early stage product Growing Pains um I've been joking with the team that this is our Pinocchio season um if you are a fan of animated Disney movies and have watched Pinocchio you know the like I want to be a real boy and we want to be a real product we're cleaning up our code and our infrastructure and building things that are important to people um but really proud of the progress that

we're making we have made some really big steps since the last grants round two and and so when you're early like this the more testing you can do the more incremental progress that you can make um that's the stuff that makes me really confident that we're going to be successful yeah I mean I think that so 18 rounds of Grants and and if three have been run on the new products of which you've only been there for one or one and a half or something like that it feels like one and a quarter throwing you in the deep end but yeah so it's like the so there's 15 rounds of product iteration that have happened in the past on the old platform and then kind of get going declared rank bankruptcy and then moved everything

over to the new products so how does it feel to be I don't know hitting zero and then sort of starting with a a clean code base but also you know people aren't are expecting features that used to be there that aren't there anymore and you know like how is that how is that reset felt oh it's been so strange honestly um I've launched a lot of new products in my career like I've done the zero to one thing several times and so when I walked into keep client I was like great I I know how to do the zero to one thing and I can do it again um and I totally just personally as a product manager like underestimated the history that comes with the get coin grants program and the old platform

um and so in many many ways it's such an advantage for our product and that people come back and use it again and again that they're so invested that they have such great ideas and also the the expectations that people have at this point um is so wild to me as a or while it's the wrong word to use it um the expectations that people have are sometimes reflective of a product that's been along around for a long time um versus the product that I know in recent history that launched publicly in June and so making sure that we respect the needs of the community that has been around for so long and balance that with

all of the traditional things in early stage product development um it's definitely challenging yeah I see you out there feeling some questions on uh on uh Twitter it's like all of people's expectations for the grand surrounds the whether they're rooted in the old product or just in imagination and and stuff like that and so I see how they're like really leading in front and engaging with the community I just like appreciate uh appreciate that you're getting out there and hearing all the feedback and uh people are really engaged during Bitcoin grants rounds I think it's because it's been such a funding source for people for for many years but it's also hard to go from 15 rounds of progress down to zero and and sort of decline from that local Maxima up to that that Global Maxima I don't

really have a question but if you have any comments on that uh let me know oh yeah it's um one of the things that has struck me the most is just the faith that the coin Community has placed in the Dao and the team to do that and I really don't take that lightly to say hey we've built something that works but we're gonna rip it up because we think there's something better out there wow like that's the kind of community that I want to be part of long-term focused decision but um I mean I guess you know I've been trying to like sit here in podcast host mode and just ask questions about it but maybe I'll just like break the fourth wall right now and just say that as someone who is involved in making that decision to decline that local Maxima from sea

grants centralized grants down to D grants we felt really like um public goods funding infrastructure should be credibly neutral and Democratic and if it was going to be a company and a platform that it would could never be that way um also there's a lot of spaghetti code that I wrote when I was just trying to figure out what Bitcoin was and so hitting reset and having to close close a new Cloud base that was open source decentralized and modular was like the new Hill that we were trying to climb there and so that's why we felt like it was appropriate to reset and go down to um to decline that local maximum and then start climbing the new decentralized modular Global Maxima I'm really excited for the point in which that becomes like an obvious choice in hindsight uh because it's been a lot of

pain of like 24 months or writing the entire organization not to like the whole product but not to mention the organization to make that happen yeah I I can't imagine honestly like again I've been here for four months and so part of me is already feeling though like oh wow early stage product development is really hard um and yeah having worked on Startup products for a long time it's it's super painful to do that and again just really respect and admire how much the community has come along for the ride and been willing to support such an inspirational and also like long you know long game of a mission yeah well public goods funding is

I feel like people think it's this like altruistic hippie dippy thing that uh that you just do it for for good and it is that in some ways but it's also I mean I think the stat is that there's trillions of dollars of capital deployed by governments and ngos and uh to open source software developers across the world and so I actually think it's like a really interesting Market that that people don't see so um really excited to see how it grows and and now that anyone can just take the power of Bitcoin grants and put it into their Dow evm based Community or Community then I'll be curious to see how it grows in what kind of different communities use it yeah not just but different kinds of communities use it but I want people to

use it in like really weird ways too we're like really unexpected ways um I had a like mental breakthrough a couple of months ago when we internally were doing some testing we were like oh we just deployed on PGN we need to test running rounds on this new network and so we're gonna launch a meme contest and it was the most fun thing I've done at work um in I don't know a year and just understanding the ways that quadratic funding can be used to not only fund open source software and public goods but just means in ways that like truly connect and engaged communities is so cool yeah it's funny where like in crypto and open source software memes and [ __ ]

posts can be a public good uh if you're like the whole the whole the whole idea here is fun boy matters right so if what matters to your community is having a dank meme game then then maybe that's something that you that you fund that's true I keep threatening to fund a cute cat pictures round two yeah so stay tuned promise or a threat I don't know what um so tell me about you sort of teased at the top of the episode get coin started with quadratic funding but it's sort of becoming more of a Swiss army knife of different mechanisms tell me about that what's the what's the plan there so as ecosystems grow and also just as our knowledge and expertise on Grant spending and ecosystem growth

gross itself one of the things that we've realized is hey many jobs many tools um and so to use your swissarly knife analogy sometimes you've got a job that requires the tiny scissors and sometimes you've got a job that you requires the tiny tweezers and not all ecosystems are created alike not all ecosystems are at the same stage which is all to say that quadratic funding is a fantastic tool but not the only one that you can or should use and so we are working to introduce different types of funding mechanisms and help organizations deploy them at the right stage for them

and so for instance we just ran a round with Phantom they came to us and said hey we want to run a quadratic funding round and had an episode in their Community where a bridge was hacked and they didn't feel comfortable asking their Community to donate funds and so instead we spin up a quadratic voting round for them which they've gotten super high engagement and has been super successful so far um so great example of an alternative mechanism making an impact um we're also introducing direct grants which is an opportunity for communities to give back to projects that are funding a specific initiative or making a specific or prescribed impact um and is a great way to get things

moving when an ecosystem starts out or to drive prescriptive asks that are surfaced by the community maybe elsewhere in quadratic funding rounds it feels like if if quadratic funding is a screwdriver I'm just going to continue the Swiss army knife analogy here if quadratic funding is a screwdriver then the idea is to build sort of a multi-tool that can be used for different things depending on how your community wants to allocate Capital to uh to to what it needs yeah that's exactly it so is this Swiss army knife going to have three to five different multi-tools on it in a few years or is it going to have a hundred like how many different allocation tools are there so who knows what the future holds like

the thing that I am most committed to is building what communities and ecosystems need to be successful that said my running thesis is that over the next we'll call it like one to three years we'll probably support three to five funding mechanisms um and maybe some like permutations of each of those funding mechanisms so not just quadratic funding but retroactive quadratic funding and the reason for that is that the Koreans ecosystem is growing and super promising but still pretty immature I think in having success metrics and having playbooks that people rely on and processes that they know work and so rather than introducing a hundred

mechanisms over the next one to three years we really want to support people having viable workflows and being able to measure the impact of what they're funding and feeling more kind of strategically competent in the programs they're running so it feels like doing a couple of them and doing them well over building a bunch of hundreds of them is kind of where your head's at but um uh I'll be curious to like invite you back in a year or two and see which parts of the Swiss Army for most used by by granted program managers yeah I will be too if I've learned anything in crypto it's to get really comfortable with being wrong yeah I mean tell me about it um but I feel like my learning

velocity has increased a lot by being in crypto and I know you've been you've been in a couple different positions in the crypto space so uh there's a lot of learnings that come from that yeah totally can you talk about uh aloe protocol yeah so Alec protocol is like the unsung hero of Grant stick we are built on top of valid product protocol and it makes everything happen on chain and and so we just like I was talking about the program being played the best but not the biggest customer of grandstack grandstack hopes to be the best but not the biggest customer of Ella protocol in that we hope we provide a way for people to see what's possible in terms of different funding mechanisms they can

use in terms of the power of finding what matters to your community um and go forth and build additional apps on top of Valor protocol yeah and um what does allo protocol stand for allocation protocol there you go right past I have some people that they're like aloe like the plant I was like no Outlet Capital allocation um I first started I thought like a French person was saying hello yeah okay yeah I guess wouldn't the French person saying hello be the bonjour protocol though well maybe they're trying to do English people with a princess okay all right I see where we're going here this is a good pun to make in an audio uh version of a podcast

is so if I'm interested in prototyping Grant stack in my own Community how do I get in touch with you uh what kind of people are you interested in hearing from it this at this point I am literally interested in hearing from anybody who's got something to fund um so if you are trying to figure out how to get more people building on top of your project or trying to figure out how to get your community to weigh in more about what matters to them um would love to talk about running grants for your community you can find me on Twitter at meglister you can also find me and our team on our gitcoin.co website where you'll find links to grandstack and to schedule a demo or get in touch with us got it is there

anything I didn't ask that you want to say about Grant stack get coin web3 one thing that I never want to leave a conversation without emphasizing is people always ask hey how much do you have to spend on grants for them to be successful and my answer is like I don't know a thousand bucks like if you can dig up some meaningful change from the couch cushions you can run grants um and just getting started somewhere and starting the process of engaging your community on this um is always better to do with a little money earlier on than waiting till later this is like a crawl walk run kind of approach to uh to deploying capital in your community yeah exactly yeah what have been your some of your favorite

projects to work with oh gosh it's like picking my favorite baby or yeah that's true well um not your favorite but uh what are someone that come to mind uh since you can't pick a favorite band or maybe or anything like that um so I I've only been here for a couple of months but I'll also name some Bitcoin historical things that um I thought were really cool and reasons why I came on board um the first one is UNICEF um the idea that these Noble funding mechanisms resonate with people outside of crypto is super interesting to me um also knowing that git coin has historically funded some upstart

projects that are now huge names in the ecosystem like bankless and uniswap and dydx um again really great proof points in the power of quadratic Vending um I have a couple of conversations going with other um great great organizations in the ecosystem that I'm afraid if I say it on podcast something's going to happen and and something bad will happen to their grants around so I won't name them but there are some really exciting awesome rounds coming on grandstack this well I gotta say this is a special pleasure to ask you all the questions that I usually get asked about Bitcoin so um maybe I'll turn it around they'll

turn the mic around and I'll let you play host for a minute or two but like you know is there anything you want to ask me or or anything else I didn't ask that you want to say yeah the classic product manager question that my job for so long um what's one thing that you would change or do differently about Grant stack if you were in my shoes oh it's a good question um I don't know if you know when I got off my my judgment because I might build a centralized in with a bunch of spaghetti code 2019 Kevin would have done that um although that was before Bitcoin had found product Market fit and we were like a team of five and we were really Scrappy and just trying to figure out where we would uh have product Market

fit um but I'll say that like the thing I always tried to do was build a experimentation and iteration machine so Bitcoin was one of six uh side projects that I had and then when I realized it had legs like everyone in web 3 was going to need developers then I went double down on it it went full time on it I was also lucky enough to get funding by Joe Lubin and back then the product was bounties which is like if you do X then I will give you y tokens get coins it was like you're getting coins there um and again we in the in the bull market of 2017 we we launched four or five different products we were like nfts and ethical ads and hackathons and we launched kernel and

um so we had this sort of like flowering of different different experiments and then the bear Market happened we had to prioritize and it was ended up being hackathons and grants that we prioritized so we doubled down on grants and um grants went from like being a subscription product where you could subscribe to your favorite projects to be in quadratic funding and then Bitcoin grants round one and two we entered this ooda Loop in which we were just experimenting with how to do the most effective quadratic funding for the community and it was just this Loop of like observe Orient decide and then act every quarter as we were running out of Grants Round We Built This like experimentation machine where we would just double down on what's working and um

uh you know like release our some costs on what wasn't working and so we're we're not only 18 iterations deep on bitcoin grants now but there was iterations before that on the products where we had to like Traverse the design Space by going through an ooda Loop and so um I I think that's the most important thing if you're going to build a culture of innovation is just building that ooda Loop and that that like metronome that Cadence with the community in which you're just you're [ __ ] around and you're finding out and like repeatedly so um I know that you're doing that and so it's not something that I would do differently but I want the audience to see the sort of like Buddha Loop of iteration and experimentation and especially when there's controversy on Twitter about Bitcoin [ __ ] something

up Bitcoin only makes the makes the same mistake once and then it fixes it the next round so it's like a infinite evolutionary game of finding the global Maxima of public goods funding in my mind so I don't know how does that resonate with you yeah that resonates a lot um both in the necessity of iterating throughout the product maturity cycle like we've talked a lot about how grants deck is kind of a mature product in some ways and kind of an early stage product in some ways yeah regardless you still got to try a bunch of stuff out and iterate an experiment a ton one thing that I'm curious particularly since you brought up the transition from centralized to decentralized software is

that experimentation Loop in a decentralized community in context one of the things that I mean I love decentralized communities I've been working in Dallas for years and one of the things that bugs me is that Dows feel slow sometimes like how do you recognize or reconcile like the slowness of decentralization and decision making with this need for fast experimentation yeah oh this is fun you're like fully podcast hosting now do you want to do cool actually this is what it's like yeah I know it's it's easier to ask questions than to be the answer sometimes um okay so um I think that slowness is a feature in some parts of the protocol or in the

world so like when you want something to be credibly neutral and dependable you want it to be slow you don't want it to be changing a lot because it can [ __ ] something up so aloe protocol being immutable and deployed on chain I think is like the slowness of that is a feature right but um it's only a feature once it's hit product Market fit and it's able to hit scale and it's like an anti-fragile hyperstructure right and so um early stage startups are all about iteration and hitting that ooda Loop where maybe you're you're deploying protocols but you're doing like you to swap V1 V2 V3 you're doing Bitcoin grants V1 V2 actually aloe protocol I think is is going to be able to be too soon and so you want to have that like iteration Loop when your pre-product

Market fit and moving quickly um and I guess there's advantages and disadvantages to decentralization um in the early Bitcoin days when there was a product bug like I'm just posting up in front of my computer I'm having a glass of whiskey and I'm deploying straight to prod in order to fix it and like I can contain it all in my head because I'm the founder and lead engineer um but that's not possible in um in a decentralized ecosystem but now because it's decentralized and modular ideally you could have different people that own different modules in the community and you can kind of like break apart and separate concerns and and like do more things um at the same time because it's a super

modular ecosystem right you have contained scope and Leadership but everything fits together in a way and so I think that in a way you can go faster because more people can like parallel process things it's almost like that old Trope if you want to go fast go yourself but if you want to go far ago together um uh but I don't know sometimes it doesn't always feel that way when uh when it just takes coordination across multiple people in order to get something done but I guess that's why we have great product managers to do do stuff now or at least very busy product manager yeah one thing that I'd love to ask the community too since we have so many great listeners is this is something you and I have been talking a lot about like the challenge of building something that feels cohesive that has the great ux

that our community has been consistently asking for and also allows for this modularity and like see feature ship feature and so if anybody knows other examples of Open Source software or can people building decentralized front-ends that are doing this really well I'd love to hear about them or love to talk to them yeah you should write them on the podcast yeah for sure I mean that's what this podcast is it's for exploring and learning sort of the frontier and one of the things is shipping products that other people can use but it's also about building cultures that work in dowels and work practices that work in dials and web3 and being on the frontier is unlike being in the Metropolis where you can kind of depend on a ton of infrastructure there's a certain amount of just being comfortable with ambiguity

and not having a lot of infrastructure that you have to have on the frontier and the working practices are we're discovering the meta as we go along but the more we can share it with each other I think it's really fun and it's really exciting time to be alive and be exploring the design space yeah yeah you're right about that yeah for sure never a dull moment um let's do some outro questions here what is your favorite public good libraries libraries okay is that um those have what are they called books oh yeah those are pieces of paper they're all glued together actually okay so it's like Twitter but over 150 years yeah and sometimes people are a little

less angry who's a political philosopher that really inspires you um in particular with public goods funding Eleanor Ostrom can you say more about that yeah so Eleanor asked him really reopened the conversation about funding the commons and the commons as public goods um in her work as a professor of Economics at Indiana University um and I aim at public goods nerd going back several decades now I wrote a senior thesis in college about Community forests as public goods and got to interview Professor Ostrom which was a academic highlight oh cool wow

um well I know uh I had Griff on the podcast and he's a big fan of the eight principles for managing the commons and we actually have a podcast coming up about Elder Ostrom so oh no way it's easier for that yeah yeah yeah um do you have any favorite mechanisms for determining our values especially like collective decision making rock paper scissors oh there you go uh a random chance decision making but at least it's yeah all right well these are all the popcorn questions I can think of uh on the moment but uh Meg thanks so much for coming on the podcast congrats on all the progress on Grant stack and looking forward to building this movement with you thanks so much for having me all right peace and love

[Music] you just heard from Meg Lister I'm excited about chatting with her because it's interesting to see the evolution of Bitcoin grants going forward the evolution of bitcoin's Mission to funding what matters and the ability for anyone to deploy get coin grants in their own Community thanks for listening to thegreen total.network podcast again this podcast features the people who are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focused on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems to the world really excited about Meg because I think that she is doing that and gitcoin is doing that but again I'm

biased as a founder of get coin and disclaimer I hold GTC if you value our work please make an offering to our algorithmic overlords Please Subscribe rate in review this really helps with helping other people find the regen web 3 movement and to find the greenpill.network resource please remember to subscribe rate and review as you're closing out this podcast peace and love and I will see you next time