Ledger drama recap, Gravita now live and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #587 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Daily gray refuel where we cup the latest news in ethereum ecosystem I'm your host and this designer and Thursday 18th of May 2023. all right everyone let's get into it so apologies for missing yesterday's episode it's funny on Monday I said to myself this week I'm not going to miss an episode of the refuel but alas the world had other plans for me so apologies for that one uh but I shouldn't Miss uh tomorrow's episode so we'll get most of the week out there and also one other thing that multiple multiple people have brought up with me is that on Tuesday's refuel I mentioned that the DOW Event was a rollback of the ethereum chain now that is obviously not correct I misspoke I'm actually usually pretty good with that but what ended up

happening with the Dow the DOW Event in 2016 was that uh there was an irregular State transition it was not a rollback of the chain um no transactions were rolled rolled back there was a state change where basically the balance of the eighth that was drained out of the Dow was taken from the hakka and and returned to a contract which then was paid out later to all of the relevant users so it was not a rollback of the change it's what we call in a regular State change or regular State transition irregular meaning it wasn't obviously part of the regular functioning of the chain and it had to be done out of band via a socially coordinated Fork uh and that happened in 2016 for those of you who don't know so you can just Google the Dow ethereum and you can get a history

on what that was there but yeah thank you to the people who brought me up on that uh I was I obviously misspoke on Tuesday's refuel but anyway let's get into the news since then and I think uh it'll be a a Miss for me not to talk about this even though it seems like old news at this point but I'm sure you've all seen uh all the drama surrounding The Ledger I guess like new feature that they introduced called a ledger recover uh and this drama has been going on for about 48 hours now now I think a lot of it is Justified because a lot of people feel betrayed by Ledger the company but I think there's also a lot of just general confusion out there about what a ledger actually is and what a hardware wallet actually is so I want to start at

the beginning really and explain exactly what Ledger announced and why people are upset about it so they announced they announced this new feature called Ledger recover which essentially allows you to backup your seed phrase private key with uh various custodians now Ledger is one of them and then there are two other companies that they've contracted to be the others and essentially what you would do is you would generate this new kind of like phrase or I guess like this new secret phrase from your Ledger it would be encrypted and it's using Shamir secret sharing and then it will be fragmented into three different parts and those three parts would go to Ledger and the two other companies and then if you wanted to reconstruct it because say you lost your Ledger or you lost your seed phrase if you wanted to get access

back to your funds you would need two of three of those uh fragments or shards in order to recreate the private key now the reason why Ledger introduced this feature was because they have a huge user base and there's a lot of I guess people as part of that user base that are scared of I I guess self-custody they probably don't trust themselves enough to secure their seed phrase they want to know that there is some kind of recourse if they lose their Ledger device or they lose their seed phrase for example so I think that's why Ledger introduced this but the other reason is that they're charging for this service as well I think it's like ten dollars ten US dollars a month or something like that uh which is obviously something that um that ledger has been doing more and more of over the past few years is

uh is getting more into the software again because making I guess like profit on Hardware is is quite difficult in kind of like the end state so what ends up happening is you sell a lot of Hardware devices but then to make even more money obviously you're a business you want to keep growing you want to keep making more money you have to move into software that's what Ledger has been doing with the Ledger Live app and a bunch of other services that they've been offering like like staking and now they're doing it with this Ledger recover service now the drama starts uh basically from the fact that people feel betrayed because they thought that the private key could never be exported from the actual Ledger device now until now it hasn't been able to the way the reason why it can now be exported is

because Ledger wrote a new piece of firmware that allows it to get the private key or I guess like get the encrypted fragments of the private key from the secure Enclave that exists on The Ledger device now for those of you who don't know the firmware is not open source and never has been for Ledger that it is a proprietary piece of code they keep it closed Source because obviously it is a competitive Advantage for them to do that they don't want competitors coming along and just stealing their firmware stealing their code and putting it on Ledger devices they also do sorry on clones of Ledger devices and they also do it for security reasons as well right at least they believe it's for security reasons I don't know I I obviously prefer open source software to close Source software and I think when it comes to this sort

of stuff open sourcing the firmware is basically non-debatable or non-negotiable but I think for a lot of people they didn't care about that enough because they used The Ledger devices right now the the fact that they didn't care about it maybe a lot of them it was due to them believing that ledger couldn't actually export or the device couldn't actually export the private key and as long as you kept your seed phrase safe and no one had access to your device and they didn't know the pins of the device your funds would be safe that is still true like that is still true guys but I I think that what people were worried about is that maybe one day Ledger is forced by a government agency to write firmware that essentially backdoors the private key right or people are also afraid of uh they're

being uh uh leaks of of users um private keys because the way that they're doing this Ledger recover service is through kyc and and ID so if you were to I guess like request these fragments from the different companies you have to basically identify yourself but we all know that identity theft is not actually hard to pull off so people are worried about their IDs essentially being uh well I guess like their ideas being stolen or leaked somewhere and then those being used to recover the fragments uh and then get and then still their crypto essentially now the service is opt-in this isn't something that everyone is automatically subscribed to but if you do update the firmware that a capability now exists on your Ledger

device right and this is this doesn't apply to Ledger Nano s's yet it's only to the newer devices but and it's only to the ones that have updated to the latest firmware and and you'll know which firmware it is because it'll be in the in the firmware notes you can check that so if you haven't updated your Ledger I think over the last week or two then you don't have this firmware installed but still like people are upset uh again because I mean it's close Source they don't know exactly what's going on they had assumed and Ledger had said multiple times actually that there was no way to export the private key and now they're saying that there is uh which I guess rightfully so it has angered a lot of people now I spent the last couple of days looking for the best Twitter threads that I could find on uh

on this and I think one of the best that I found was from Ansgar here who is a researcher at the ethereum foundation basically describing how this all works from a technical point of view and how he believes that the update itself doesn't change the trust assumptions around uh around Ledger Hardware wallet but other people would argue that it does because it increases the attack surface because now I guess like the Secret's outright and you can basically uh no and then if you were able to compromise Ledger the company and push a malicious firmware to the devices you could potentially steal everyone's private key uh or I guess like export everyone's private key uh and and then uh you you need to decrypt it in some in some fashion right and as I said because the firmware is closed Source we don't actually know how it works on the hood

so there's no real way to to know what's going on there now where I sit here is basically so I sit in like the middle ground I try to sit at the middle ground for a lot of issues but I think with this one in particular I thought a lot about it and I think okay well I use multiple Hardware wallets I don't just use one right I use I've used ledgers in the past I use the lattice one which is the how to wallet from grid grid plus I've used trezzles in the past but I don't really use them that much these days I mostly uh use Ledger and and lattice one um and I have my own various ways of backing up my seed phrases and and things like that right obviously I'm not going to detail that for for opsec reasons but that's how I go about it uh

and I also make use of multi-seg which I think is a is a underrated Point here and I think that the most secure way probably these days and the most trustless way to secure your own funds in a kind of cold storage way and I guess it technically can't be called Cold Storage but still I think that getting a multi-seek having like a two or three multi-sig that you control all the keys to so for example you can set up a safe multi-sigator address and then all the signers on that address can be different Hardware wallets one can be a ledger one can be a lattice one and one could be a trezor so that way the even if for some reason The Ledger firmware was uh was compromised and it you know the the private key was leaked uh they

would still need the two other kit well sorry at least one other key if it was a 203 multisig from your other devices in order to access your multi-sig wall and that's why multisigs are so popular because um even if one device is compromised the other two or even if one I guess like private key I should say is compromised and it's a two or three multi-sig you would still need to compromise another one in order to get access to the funds so I've made use of of multi-sigs myself uh definitely and I know a lot of people do as well uh and I think that is just a really great uh Middle Ground where essentially you don't have to trust anyone you don't have to trust any of these Hardware manufacturers basically what you just have to trust is that the safe if you're using the safe multi-sig

you have to trust that the code hasn't got like some massive exploit in it where all funds could be drained or anything like that and it's been I mean safe has been running for quite a while now it has a massive amount of funds in there so if anything was was Ultra secure as a multi-seek it definitely is safe but there's always a risk there there's no perfect way to custody funds on uh you know in crypto guys like even there's no perfect way to custody funds in the traditional world like for example if you have cash it's very hard to custody cash in in large amounts of cash at least if you have like a million dollars in cash which hardly anyone does except maybe any drug dealers right but uh how are you gonna custody a million dollars worth of cash and be sure that

it's secure well if you leave it at home I mean if your ass gets broken into you you know you have to hide that somewhere right you have to be sure that you've hidden it somewhere that uh that that those people can't find it if they break into your house right and then uh bank accounts for example get drained all the time you know maybe you your your account gets hacked because you use the weak password or maybe it gets socially engineered so it's the same kind of concept here it's like security is is very hard there's no perfect solution to security uh securing your your crypto funds obviously there's a heightened risk there because it's irreversible sometimes you can get your funds back um if your bank account gets hacked and things like that but with crypto I mean once the funds are gone they're gone

because it's it's immutable there's no one that's going to be to be saving you here uh and and that's I guess like the scariest bit for a lot of people but the way you protect yourself uh in in my mind is that you just uh use common sense right don't obviously write your seed phrase down on a piece of paper and leave that piece of paper on the kitchen table for it to be thrown out or for it to just lay there for anyone to see or anything like that right like that that's just using common sense but overall people's security posture I think generally uh in all facets of basically everything got to do with digital security and even physical security is uh is not great unfortunately and I think that that's why I Ledger introduced this recover feature I think that's why a lot of

people custody their funds with centralized exchanges even though we've seen multiple of these things blow up I think that's why custody Solutions are just incredibly popular are because you don't want to be responsible for your own funds A lot of the time a lot of people don't want to be don't want to be responsible for it because they don't trust themselves right uh so yeah it's all up it's up to you how you want to custody your funds I think that a lot of people listening to the refuel obviously would prefer to self-custody but if you want a custody on an exchange you just have to accept the risk right you have to accept the risk that I mean there are multiple risks obviously exchange going under is one risk your exchange account getting hacked is another another risk your exchange account getting social engineered is another risk uh The

Exchange itself being ordered to freeze your funds by a government is another risk right so there's no risk-free way to custody funds here there's no free lunch when it comes to to security and and custody uh but as long as you're aware of those risks and you're comfortable taking them uh then yeah I mean that's all you can really do right so so yeah anyway that was a bit of a tangent about digital security generally but I think when it comes to just The Ledger situation as I said people feel betrayed because they didn't think that it was possible to ex-fill the private key from The Ledger device ice they also feel like this feature was uh in the fact that this feature can exist on on the existing Ledger devices is kind of silly they should have uh the people believe that they should have um

introduced another separate Ledger device that you could get Ledger recover on and and just left the existing devices as they were obviously they weren't going to do that because they have a huge uh I guess quote unquote install base with the existing Ledger device owners and they want to tap into that base so yeah I mean it as I said there is a there's a middle ground here I don't think it's as bad as everyone is pointing out but I don't think it's it's good either I think that the communication around how the device actually worked and the communication that ledger has put out for years now is obviously not great and hasn't been totally accurate and truthful so if that's a problem you have you can change you don't have to use Ledger Hardware wallets you can change through as I said like you can have a multi-seg

where you use The Ledger Hardware wallet but then you use two other um uh different Hardware wallets as signers you can go use the grid plus uh lattice one which actually just got restocked I believe you can go check that out and you can check out their thread as well about how uh closed sourced firmware is just a massive I guess like security hole and they use the example of um the CIA having products backdoored for decades because they were able to run a company called or at least be be part of a company called crypto AG which installed backdoored for firmware onto their devices which a lot of uh people and governments around the world are bought and that gave the CIA basically open access to all this encrypted information

that they could they could decrypt right so the same could be done for Ledger you know because Ledger firmware is closed Source we have absolutely no idea if a government hasn't installed a back door on it right then and and and and that's why I think a lot of people are now waking up to it and being like oh wow okay this is what can actually be done in a closed Source world now grid plus has actually made the public commitment here to open source its firmware in Q3 that's a huge win that's a huge win for for the for grid plus that's a huge win I think for the space because this should encourage other um uh uh I guess like a cold storage Hardware device manufacturers to open source their firmware because if it's not open source it's a black box you have no idea what's going on in there

and really you shouldn't trust it no matter what the company says I mean I don't trust Ledger the company at all um I I I definitely don't like that it's closed Source I definitely think that it is a black box obviously um and to be honest I'm thinking of just getting rid of my ledger devices completely and even getting them off the multi-cigs and things like that and I'm thinking of just basically going with other devices especially the open source ones like like lattice mom will be in Q3 uh uh yeah but like you can always be improving your security posture I think generally and it's just stuff to think about so hopefully I've given you a bunch of things to think about in the 15 minutes wow okay I've gone a little bit overtime here but yeah hopefully I've given you a bunch of things to think

about there but that's my take on The Ledger stuff obviously there was a lot of noise on Twitter so hopefully that summarized it for you there anyway moving on to a bunch of other updates so off chain Labs uh or prilabs who is what was acquired by off-chain Labs has put out there a post-mortem report on the ethereum mainnet finality issues that primarily were caused by the prism and techu clients here now the tldr that Joe here um has tweeted out said uh the trigger was many attestations using old Target checkpoints plus large deposit queue validator registry uh the effect some clients would Dost or denial of service due to unoptimized attestation

validation during these conditions and the result of course was delayed finality and reduced block through put for 10 10 epochs Lighthouse kept the chain alive but could have further caused issues if a fork occurred concurrently less than a dollar in eighth loss per validator no slashing and the fix was updating the attestation validation logic to defend client resources during similar conditions so that's the tldr but you can go read the full post and the full post modem here which I'll link in the usual description below but great to have this this week I did say that I expected this to come out this week and thank you so much to the off chain Labs team for putting this out there I think it's a great way to alleviate a lot of people's concerns around uh I guess what happened explain

exactly what happened how uh this was you know a bargain not like a critical issue with ethereum's consensus mechanism or anything like that so yeah if you're interested in learning the full kind of scope of this and everything about it I'll link this blog post in the YouTube description below for you to check out all right Hill Dobby had an interesting tweet today where he said over 2 million eighth were sent to be staked this month and it is only May 17th and you can see the source here which is his own dashboard now I actually had some fun before where I was doing a bit of calculations around this in dollar terms and it was actually quite quite quite shocking it to an extent so 2 million eighth in dollar terms um I I've actually forgotten exactly

what it is right now so if we do two million eighth times I guess like eighteen hundred and twenty eight dollars you get 3.6 uh billion dollars right three billion 600 million so 3.6 billion dollars worth of eth has been staked in the last uh uh just this month right just in may just over the last seven day 17 days now that two 3.6 billion dollars that's actually a a bigger than most of the l1's market cap out there so the ethereum network just just to give you some context here of the scale of the scale of difference between ethereum as a network work and a lot of the l1's out there ethereum as a network and has staked has had more eth and dollar terms staked in the first 17

days of of this month than most uh market caps of the different l1s out there so that's a crazy start more crazy stats there are 20 million each staked right now right so if you do the dollar conversion of 20 million each staked I believe that would be around 36 billion dollars I think I actually want to check my mouth on that because I want to make sure that uh yeah 36 billion uh 500 million so 36.5 billion dollars that is larger than every other L1 market cap every single one right every single one um and I don't I don't count um B and B Because BNB is not just the BSC chain it's obviously binance as well so I'm talking like every single L1 out there

except Bitcoin obviously but like all the other smart contract L ones like uh cardan I'm going down a listing on coin gecko cardano is at 13 billion you have uh Solana at 8.2 billion um you have uh I guess Litecoin but I mean smart contract change polka dot at 6.6 billion and I think at 36 billion it might even be more uh I guess uh sorry higher dollar value than all of the other l1s put together all the other market caps put together which just shows you the complete difference in scale between ethereum and every other smart contract L1 out there and just for context here ethereum's market cap is 220 billion the next closest L1 is cardano with 13 billion so it is just so

in such a different world it's a completely different world to everything else here um and that's why when you see these kind of numbers you've got to put a dollar amount into it because it is a huge dollar amount I mean as I said 3.6 billion dollars just this month of newly staked eighth we obviously expect that to keep going of the total amount staked over 36 billion dollars just crazy right absolutely crazy and if you want to keep track of all this sorts of stuff of course you can check out ill Dobby's Eve staking dashboard here which I'll link in the YouTube description below but I've talked about the staking dashboard a lot on the reefer before it is one of the best if not the best for tracking all this stuff I believe it's just such a nice dashboard it's got so many

different metrics here I'll link it in the YouTube description below uh for you to check out all right so I guess like in a similar vein or a similar topic of discussion around ethereum staking here the ultrasound money account put out a tweet today which I thought was actually pretty mind-blowing so they said that 4994 eth would be issued per day if all eth was staked so if all of the 120 so million eth was staked we would only issue 4994 each per day as new issuance to the trainers new consensus layer rewards then they said since erp1559 went live the average daily burn has been 5068

each per day that's mind-blowing that means that we have burned more eth than would be issued at the max amount of ether could be issued per day based on the current eat Supply like think about that for a sec digest that for a sec we have we have actually been net deflationary right even with the I mean since 1559 went live but even if all eighth was staked even if we were issuing the maximum amount of heat we could issue we would still have burned more eat per day since 1559 went live almost two years ago now CR that's crazy I'm still mind blown about this that I saw it and I'm like surely that's not right and I checked the checked it myself and I'm like holy that's actually right that actually is just

crazy and the fact that I didn't see more people talking about this is even crazier to me I just think they don't they don't understand what this means here I mean to me it means that ethereum as a network is just completely economically self-sufficient and economically viable um now this isn't to say that this is you can extrapolate this out and say that it's always going to be like this but if you believe ethereum is going to keep growing if you believe that ethereum L1 is actually going to be a global settlement layer and continue to grow from here then it's a it does it makes sense and it logically follows that the burn will stay at these levels right it will stay at enough of a level to be above the ultrasound barrier at all times times right even if all of the eighth uh in existence was staked now of

course if we keep going and burning more eighth then we're issuing each day today this number gets lower and lower over time because the eighth Supply right now is 120 something million like if I go to the ultrasound money website you can actually see in real time what the eat Supply is so I'll bring up the website here so the current heat Supply is 120.27 million right now we actually peaked at uh and you can see here we peaked at 120.5 million uh back in back basically at the merge now since then we have been coming down and we are all we are eventually going to get below 120 million here but like that's the that's the whole point of having like ultrasound money of having a

deflationary eat is that we peaked in Supply and now we're going down eighth doesn't have a supply cap you guys know that right and the point is is that it doesn't need a supply cap because we generate so much demand for the network that we have something better than a supply cap which is a deflationary supply which is just absolutely amazing to me and often people will bring up oh well you know if atheist too deflationary no one will use it my like and I've said this before and I say it again the only reason it's deflationary is because people are using it there is no arbitrary deflation here it's not like the every um ethereum block randomly you know 50 if he's burned in someone's address no that's not how it works at all obviously people have to pay to use the network and about

70 to 80 of that is burned as part of the erp1559 base fee and that's how we get a net deflationary eth Supply here so you have to use the eth for it to be burned so the bearish take of no one who used to deflationary is just completely wrong because it cannot be deflationary unless people are using it so just wanted to make that clear I know you guys are clear on that but I felt like it was worth reiterating that but yeah anyway just a mind-blowing tweet for me today figured it was worth sharing with you all all right moving on gravatar protocol is now alive you can open your first vessel now and borrow gray using wrapped eth rockable eth a wrapped uh lighter staked eth and uh BL USD uh and then they said

here you cannot resist the pull of gravitar now I believe that there's a dashboard that I can bring up here that you can track or do an analytics dashboard you can track the current growth of gravatar I believe in the uh I guess like since they launched they've got around 6.3 million tvl uh and 3.7 million borrowed which is which is very cool to see that they've grown uh so quickly already so yeah 6.6 million tvl here you can see on the Dune analytics dashboard and there's a bunch of different metrics around here that you can track I'll link this in the YouTube description below but for those of you who don't know what gravitar is or what it's trying to be it's trying to be an eighth Centric borrowing protocol for the various lsts out there so the main goal is really to increase the liquidity

and usefulness of LST so liquid staking tokens such as rocketpool safe such as lydro staked eth um you know CB eat beef any other future lsts that come out and any other kind of like restaking based lsts as well can be used within gravatar protocol and that's what they're mainly focused on now of course there are other you know money markets out there and other lending markets out there that use uh the lsts but none that just focus their core I guess like value prop on it which I think is a is a pretty big deal and a pretty uh a pretty cool thing to do and I should disclose here I'm actually an investor in in gravitar protocol I met the team in Denver super awesome guys like I just love what they're doing obviously anything got to do with ethereum staking uh and

increasing kind of like the liquidity for ethereum is taking them all about so I just wanted to disclose that there but if this is something that you're interested in if you're looking for stuff stuff to do with your you know your lsts definitely give gravatar protocol a look here now I should also say that it's new uh it's obviously risky because it's new uh be sure to read up on you know the various documentary station uh the audit stuff like that so that you know what you're kind of getting into here there is always risks with uh um interacting with smart contracts on ethereum of course but if you're comfortable with that you can definitely check out gravatar and and potentially use it I'll link the tweet in the YouTube description below as well as the Dune analytics dashboard if you would like to check out their

growth as well all right so Mustafa here who works at uh the crypto division at Visa tweeted out at Visa our goal is to always stay ahead of the curve we're currently exploring the untucked potential of smart contracts the future of programmable money and payments we've recently delved into account abstraction enabled by ERC 4337 and the exciting possibilities it opens up and then it continues with a thread here about this very cool to see Visa involved with uh account abstraction right guys like ERC 4337 as I said like back when we were when I was in Denver I felt like we were finally seeing movements uh out on the account abstraction space we're finally seeing a standard being set finally seeing a lot

of development happening there uh and it seems like Visa has joined The Fray which is just absolutely awesome to see you guys know Visa is very heavily involved with crypto especially the ethereum side of things and it makes sense for them to delve into obviously um account abstraction because that is definitely going to be one of the next big things that we see in the ethereum space here now if you want to read mustafa's Thread about how they're thinking about this how these are thinking about this you can check it out I'll link in the YouTube description below I believe there's also an accompanying blog post uh yes there is there's a coupling blog posts that was published on the Visa website uh called rethink digital transactions with account abstraction and you can read this and this gives you actually a really good overview of account

abstraction and ERC 4337 as well so definitely a recommended read which as I said I'll link in the YouTube description below uh but great to see a Visa continuing to be involved with the ethereum ecosystem here uh as I've said multiple times before I don't think that the ethereum ecosystem exists to disrupt and destroy all of the traditional Finance uh companies I think it exists to improve their processes improve the technology improve the way they do things and also offer an alternative right offer a decentralized open alternative rather than going through the the centralized intermediaries you don't have to use Visa when you have uh a kind of like a mature ethereum when we get to the point where ethereum is just a mature and has a mature payments layer

you probably wouldn't have to use Visa but the thing is that Visa is probably going to build something on top of it right build their own um uh products on top of the the rails and people will want to use it because it's more convenient right but you have the choice that's that's always been the point really is that you have a choice there but yeah anyway I'll link the thread in the YouTube description below you can go check it out for yourself all right optimism has announced that season 4 of optimism governance will introduce a handful of new experiments reflecting optimism's continued commitment to iteration and Improvement you can get the full details from this post here or read the Twitter summary for yourself so basically uh the optimism I guess community and and Collective is at the Forefront of community governance and they're trying

to do a bunch of different experiments with it and as I said this is season four so they've had three seasons worth of experiments so far that have done a bunch of different things especially with the retroactive public goods funding that I've talked about before and how in in the last round it was actually a pretty big payout for a lot of people which is very cool um but if you want to know what season four is all about you can definitely check out uh the the Twitter thread here but the trdr is basically that the season four of optimism governance was inspired by a lot of research that they have been doing and some a handful of new Concepts such as collective intents missions and alliances and Collective trust tiers so if you want to learn more about all of that as said I'll link the thread in the

YouTube description below for you to check out all right finally here we have uh base introducing something called a base camp which is a self-paced learning program for smart contract development designed to empower experienced developers and on-chain enthusiasts alike with Basecamp you can learn about ethereum fundamental solidity development environments token standards and more so yeah you can go check this out at this website here which I'll link in the YouTube description below if you are a developer that's interested in in learning about this you can get started at docs.base.org if the website wasn't actually load for me yeah yeah so here it is so basically there is an introduction to ethereum section smart contract development section and a token section here so far what I really love

about this initiative is that as I've said before base uh well what coinbase is doing with bass isn't just going to be a massive deal for users and for built for bringing new users on chain it's also going to be a really big deal for bringing new developers into the ethereum ecosystem because once you develop on base right because it's evm compatible you'll and because it's part of the optimism ecosystem you'll be able to export your skills essentially to everything else within the ethereum ecosystem obviously especially if it's evm based which is huge I think many people underestimate what the actual I guess moat is or maybe they misunderstand what the actual mode is of blockchains of crypto networks to Me overall it's the social layout but one

critically important piece of the social layer is the developer ecosystem the chain that has the best and most active developers will be the one that gets the most mind share and market share because without the developers building all the novel products and and services that we know and love and use and love then the users aren't going to come now obviously you can't just build it and expect users to come themselves or a bunch of other things that go into that as well such as marketing and business development and all that stuff there but if there's nothing to Market if there's nothing to business develop if there's nothing for users to actually play around with then obviously they're not going to come to your ecosystem they're going to go somewhere else they're going to go where they can play around with things where they can get

the most value from so that's why it's critically important for new ecosystems to focus on getting the developers to build on them so that the users have something to use and play around with once they come and you know bridge to the change so to speak so yeah anyway you can check out bases base camp I'll link in the YouTube description below but I think on that note that's going to be it for today thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to newsletter join the Disco Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone