Layer 2's and sidechains, EPNS governance and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #206 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone welcome to another episode of the daily gray refuel where recap the latest news in ethereum ecosystem i'm your host anthony sosano and today's the 10th of september 2021 all right everyone let's get into it so the first day of bitcoin grants matching round 11 has been amazing i mean you can see here git coin put out a tweet and there were 4 600 contributions from 351 people totaling 36 701 in just the first day with 465 grants contributed towards um and yeah i mean you can still go donate of course this is only day one of 15 but this is amazing to see i mean i would love to see just millions being donated and we have a 950 000 matching pool um you know over the next two weeks to support everything uh that's

happening on git coin here but i won't go into it again i spoke about it yesterday just go donate if you haven't yet you've got two weeks um and i think it's your duty as an ethereum to do so all right i think for the majority of this refill i'm going to be talking about scaling again sorry guys i feel like like a scaling dad at this point but i think it's like a really um really important thing to talk about right now in the context of just where this ecosystem is where it's going and a lot of confusion as well around right now so i guess i want to start with this tweet from scott lewis who says the ethereum community needs to do three things embrace side chains embrace roll-ups and build that's it and i wrote today's newsletter about this but essentially i mean i fully agree with

him here i think that uh the ethereum community is probably being too pure right now when they need to be more pragmatic and what i mean by this is that the they're kind of like i wouldn't say the whole ethereum community i would say some parts of it are kind of like well you know side chains are just a temporary thing we shouldn't worry about them because we have roll ups coming and and it's all going to be well and dandy i have never personally taken that view and and you know obviously polygons pos chain which i mean some people call it a side chain some people call it commit chain uh some people call it layer two but i you know i think the best technical explanation of what it is is a side chain or a commit chain it definitely doesn't fall into i guess like a layer

two like a roll up or something like that but i think that that doesn't even really matter at the end of the day i think what matters is kind of like what each scaling solution does on the technical side and on the social side and um just obviously disclosure here i'm an advisor to polygon but i want to use the polygon kind of i guess pos chain is a perfect example of something that is socially scalable and technically scalable as well um but it's not kind of like a competitor to ethereum just because it's not a true l2 or something like that doesn't mean that it is parasitic to a theorem doesn't mean that it's taking activity away from ethereum because when you think about it people are using the pos chain because they can't use ethereum they can't afford to use ethereum right now and and

for the longest time that this pos chain has been live for since basically the start of this year um the roll-ups haven't been out like optimism uh uh i only really started kind of like releasing things in july with uni swap arbitrage only recently and and those are still very limited as well they can only scale as much as basically ethereum's l1 right now um and they've still got training wheels on they're still kind of like centralized controls and levers which is totally fine like i think uh that's okay but at the same time if users can't use ethereum they're going to go elsewhere so my kind of logic with the polygon pos chain is that it works as a very nice kind of like pressure release valve for for the ethereum ecosystem where we can still keep people in the ethereum family because i view the pos channels like an

allied nation to ethereum for example um rather than uh something very competitive like a a solana or or kind of like um uh whatever other chain you want to kind of think i don't want to pick out what chains are a what but like a taser i guess or something like that that the things that have been antagonistic towards ethereum and obviously want to share take ethereum's market share away um so from that perspective it's it we shouldn't expect users to wait to use the best thing ever right to use the fully decentralized fully secure roll up in its final form because those things are still a very a very kind of like far way away we have roll-ups live today but as i said they still have a bunch of different centralized controls and stuff like that and they're still very early in their life and they're not

you know they're not um basically at full capacity or anything like that which is which is again totally fine but in the meantime we have these users coming in who just literally cannot afford to use ethereum's layer one it's not that they don't want to it's that they can't afford to if they're coming with a hundred dollars uh and want to do kind of like more than one thing on on layer one they can't and i totally understand that like not everyone has tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars that they've made of crypto over the last kind of year to to kind of like wish wash the fees away like i totally get that and i think that from that perspective we should be embracing side chains we should be embracing the polygon pos chain um and other kind of evm compatible side chains

that are friendly with ethereum i don't think that we should be embracing things that are not friendly like bsc for example not friendly um a bunch of other kind of trains and stuff i don't think that we should uh we should embrace those because that's just kind of like feeding users to our competition so if we're we're stuck in like this hard place where the users that want to use ethereum can't do it because of the fees uh they can't do it on on on layer tool they could and until recently um and you know they're looking for somewhere to go well instead of them going to competitors why not get them to go to the pos uh the polygon pls chain and do their stuff there yes it's less secure and less decentralized than ethereum yes they're essential points of failure uh and kind of like central

points along the lot of the way especially the bridge contract um which is just like a five of seven multisig right now but at the end of the day that doesn't really matter what matters is keeping the users in the ethereum ecosystem and that's not to say that the the pos chain will uh will kind of like fade away over time as rollovers become more mature i think side chains are always going to have their place or commit chains whatever you want to call it um uh the the pos chain or what um will always have their place for different kind of things and i you know i'm hopeful that maybe one day the pos chain can basically uh get turned into a roll-up or something like that right where essentially you just migrate over to a fully mature zk roll up or whatever and and then uh we

kind of get to that point but i think that's still years away i don't think that's coming anytime soon so in the meantime to scott's point here we should embrace all of these solutions whether they be technical or socially scalable or both uh there should not be a kind of warring factions within ethereum about this because as i said at the end of the day if they don't go to the polygon pos chain they're gonna go uh elsewhere they're gonna go to competitor chains at least that's been the case maybe up until recently but even still as i said the roll-ups aren't mature enough yet and i know there's different kind of trade-offs here like obviously with the pos chain on polygon it has its own kind of like validator set it has like that bridge that i just spoke about um and there's different kind of like uh i

guess like central points of failure there but as i said before these roll ups like the austin uh the arbor trim and optimisms of the world and stuff like that they have centralized sequences only they can process transactions which means they can either front run you or they can censor you um they have upgradable contracts they have all sorts of things on there um that kind of like are they central points of failure so scaling ethereum is not something uh you know to the point where you have you know almost the same security guarantees as layer 1 on layer 2 or on a side chain it's not going to happen overnight it's going to be a long process so in the meantime let's just embrace all of these solutions and build let's stop kind of like fighting and stop kind of like uh kind of like having

this elitism about certain solutions and just embrace what's ready today because i mean as i said if we don't then competitors are going to hop on about this and kind of like still kind of like gain market share from ethereum not that i think that that's like a huge deal right now because the the pie is so small that uh and it's going to get so much bigger from here that i don't think any solution or any kind of like change should be worrying about market stealing market share from other chains at this point in time but i would love to keep the uh i guess the people in the ethereum ecosystem and are in the ethereum ecosystem even if they can't afford ethereum layer one and one way of doing that is the pos chain the other ways is kind of like roll ups and layer

twos and stuff like that uh so from that perspective i think that uh yeah let's just shut up about it embrace it and build um but yeah there's a little bit more info in my newsletter about this but i'm gonna move on to another kind of like related tweet from patrick mccrory here who said who put together this tweet that i thought was really good he said an underappreciated fact of roll ups is the potential for experimentation this includes new blockchain protocols new virtual machines and smart contracts including zk vms new fee models the 2015 dream of sidechains while retaining main chain security is alive and well so use build and play um so what he's referring to here is this 2015 dream is basically from the bitcoiner camp they kind of had this dream of like scaling via layers and via

side chains and kind of inheriting bitcoin security but unfortunately because bitcoin doesn't have the expressive kind of base layer it's much harder to scale at layer two than it is for something like ethereum and actually on a related note here i should mention that the way you should think about ethereum and bitcoin and other networks and kind of like i guess mainly ethereum and bitcoin is that they're settlement layers now what i mean by this is that ethereum layer 1 is a sediment layer or will be a settlement layer in the future for layer two it will not be the layer that most user or almost all users sit on because where basically the way you scale computation is you take it off layer one put it on layer two and then you can kind of like do all the

computation up there and then just settle that computation on layer 1. that's how these layer 2's work with the batching of transactions with posting data to layer 1. even that doesn't have to be posted to layer 1. you can kind of keep that off chain as well but there's additional trust assumptions there of course but essentially um i think what people are kind of like have a wrong frame of mind about is they think ethereum is competing with other layer one blockchains that are trying to scale at layer one like ethereum will still scale on layer one via sharding but it's kind of a little bit different because they're gonna be data shards which just enhance layer two it's not gonna be executable shards um so from that perspective the other chains are competing with ethereum's layer two ecosystem and the theorems like a layer

two ecosystem is so amazing because it gets to inherit the layer one security and gets the settle on there and we have this like super secure proof of work chain and then we're gonna have like a an even more secure proof of stake chain once the merge goes through uh to kind of like settle on so so that's how you think you should think about the way that layered scaling approach i get the other approaches of wanting to scale everything on layer one i don't agree with them i don't think they're sustainable and i don't think they'll actually um be able to scale past their their kind of like limits that they have um due to hardware and stuff like that so from that perspective to patrick's kind of tweet here the exciting thing about layer twos is that you don't have to change anything on

layer one to do this because you get this kind of like wide design space at layer 2 to do whatever you want and you you can basically bootstrap your layer too by just settling it to a ethereum settling at security there you can do stuff like this you can create entirely new blockchains that sit on top of ethereum and just inherit it security but you can do anything with it you can have different kind of like uh uh transactions per second of course you can have different block times and stuff like that you can have different batch times or different kind of technologies optimistic roll-ups zk robs whatever and then inside of that you can have new virtual machines you don't have to use the ethereum virtual machine or the evm which means you can do new smart contract stuff like uh starkware has their um

their stock os which is kind of like their own kind of little vba av vm virtual machine with their own cairo programming language and they have all this tooling that they're building around around it and stuff like that and then on top of that you can get new fee models as well you don't have to copy what ethereum is doing you don't have to have the 1559 style fee model you can do something else or you can do meta transactions natively at the protocol layer uh you can do all sorts of things because you're not limited by i guess the kind of like layer one constricts you're basically inheriting layer one security while also being able to move much faster because uh you know you can start off centralized or whatever obviously ethereum is decentralized so it's much harder much harder to change the base protocol but

also changing layer one ethereum affects everything changing your own layer two that you're building on top of ethereum only affects your layer too that's the beautiful thing about it that you have this siloed risk and that's why the ethereum layout being a settlement layer um and and and being conservative and how it develops over time is so important because if the base is is kind of like weak if the base changes um and is insecure then everything built on top cannot survive it's kind of like the base of a of a hotel building for example right like a massive hotel building uh in the city if the base the structural base is weak if in say five years it's going to lose its its sturdiness and collapse while the whole building's going to collapse there's

nothing stopping that from happening um whereas if if like the top floor of the building for some reason just kind of like catches on fire or whatever then um you know the the building is built in such a way where that's top uh top floor of the building is kind of like isolated from the rest of it it's not going to bring the kind of like whole building down um unless the fire like i guess travels to different floors and stuff like that but they're usually not designed like that um and and on that note that's the same with ethereum if the base layer if something happens on the base layer it can potentially affect everything else built on top but if something happens at a layer two say the layer two gets like exploited and all the funds are drained well that only affects that layer two that does not

affect the other layer twos it does not affect ethereum itself and and that's exactly why you can you um you know the rollup centric roadmap for ethereum the layered scaling approach is just so much cooler because you're not limited anymore you're basically having the awesome security of ethereum while also having the ability to experiment as much as you want on layer two and this just again is another reason why i think the layered approach to scaling is the correct way to go about it when it comes to blockchain networks rather than the let's scale everything on layer one and and kind of like increase hardware costs to compensate for that and and kind of hit scaling limits anyway i i just and you know obviously there are trade-offs here you lose composure some composability um you fragment liquidity and stuff like

that but if the world is going to be multi-chain anyway then it doesn't really matter because they're going to be solutions that come out like the um the bridge solutions that i talk about all the time and other kind of things like the l1 to l2 asynchronous communication technologies like the relayers that's all coming it's i mean some of it's here already more of it's coming these things are not problems that are unsolvable they're just trade-offs this whole space is just trade-offs that's all it is the entire ecosystem it's what trade-off have you made to achieve something is it a good trade-off yes or no is it long-term sustainable yes or no is it you know going to affect this your decentralization security yes or no if you take the trade-off of um requiring super nodes to run your chain well then you've given up decentralization or at

least a lot of decentralization you've given up inclusivity for people to be able to validate the chain you've made it harder for things to kind of like sync over time but in return you've got scalability or at least short to medium term scalability and you've got cheap fees and all that sort of stuff but you know if you take the late ethereum approach you have to go through this transitioning period of the l1 being like super high fees for end users and the l2 ecosystem not being mature yet and again that's to my point before about how i was saying people should use the polygon pos chain even though it's less secure it's it's kind of like at least you can use it right you can't use ethereum if you don't have a lot of money right now um so from that perspective uh there's kind of like just

trade-offs on both approaches but for me the trade-off of ethereum right now not kind of like blowing out the gas limit kind of like trying to scale at layer one to just compensate just in the meantime to kind of like get some short-term scaling the trade-off of that is long-term kind of i guess like um state bloat and and and and less decentralization and stuff like that i just don't think it's worth it i think that you know we're taking a bet on this trade-off we're basically saying we can kind of wait a little bit longer we can transition the ecosystem to layer two we've got this we've got side chains that can help we've got other ecosystems that can help and stuff like that and once we get to that point where uh we have like all the users on layer two and l1 is truly just the settlement layer

where the l2 settle to there's some whales sitting on there and stuff like that providing liquidity and anyone who can afford to be on there will be on there i think that is the very sustainable long-term approach at the end of the day but anyway i'm going to move on from that uh speaking of bridges elias cmos i think cymos or simas uh from uh kind of like uh coinbase here uh at bison trails put out a nice little dashboard on do another licks today which is basically a bridge dashboard so you can see here the total value locked in different bridges going um in and out of ethereum such as uh the polygon bridge the solana phantom avalanche arbor trim all these bridges right you can see the value locked in them broken down here on on the chart on the left then on the right you can see the unique

depositors stuff like that um market share uh you know over time a relative tvl asset distribution all those sorts of things so i mean i love doing analytics disclosure i'm an investor in doing analytics but i invested because i love them and i've been supporting them for a very long time um but these dashboards are just an awesome way to visualize kind of like how things are evolving how things are going in the ecosystem and you know it's funny to see you know this orange bit here is avalanche and you'll note that like a few weeks ago avalanche did this thing called d5 rush which is just this massive liquidity mining program for for avalanche and so everyone like plowed into the bridge right and then you can see here this this large kind of like pink is polygon and you can see how much growth polygon has had since kind

of like may and and the growth's been steady and kind of like taking off again here and then all the all the minority bridges here all the smaller ones and stuff like that what really caught my eye though was this kind of like unique depositors thing here this is like tiny numbers like look at this i mean if you kind of like look at uh avalanches unique depositors like each day it's kind of like a couple thousand at peak i mean i think peak was like what three thousand or something like that um then i mean the polygon one at peak was like four thousand three hundred this is like tiny numbers like we we just keep fighting over like who's got what market share when we haven't even onboarded 99.9 of the world why why are we even bothering fighting like the pie is going to get so incredibly like

stupidly bigger i i spoke about this i think last week on the refuel when i talked about the the valuations of kind of this market and how i think the total crypto market cap's going to go through multiple hundreds of trillions of dollars which means the whole pie is just going to get so absolutely massive that there's going to be plenty of market share and users to go around and right now we're all fighting over this tiny little thing which is mostly existing users just jumping between different chains to kind of earn some money here and there that's that's not the way to think about it the way to think about it is let's just keep building because we're about to onboard hundreds of millions if not billions of people over the next five to ten years so let's just stop thinking about this kind of day-to-day bickering and and

following things and saying this is going to kill this because the price went up and this price went up and i made money here it's it's just all recency bias it's just all short-term thinking it is not sustainable to think like this and i i preached this a lot on on the refill on the newsletter that long-term thinking is how you win in this ecosystem whether that be financially win or socially win um short-term thinking is just going to end up getting you wrecked it's going to end up making you like uh anxious it's going to end up making you upset especially if you're kind of i guess like tied to different kind of ecosystems and stuff like that so best to think that the pie i think about the fact that the pie is going to get much bigger from here and we just like really

scratch the surface of all of this sort of stuff here so uh loopring uh kind of uh i guess shared a blog post today from their cto steve called what is the real future of layer two networks this is a 14-minute read so it's quite a long blog post here but essentially this is an amazing blog post i mean i i read through most of it today it basically goes through optimistic roll-ups ck roll-ups loop ring of course uh different solutions out there like zk stinks zk sync stink star queer and stuff like that and kind of like compares them talks about them talks about kind of like how they work and all that sort of stuff i highly recommend giving this post to read if you want to kind of have a look at the kind of like future of what layer 2 is

going to look like i think a lot of it is is definitely stuff that i've said kind of like on the refill before which is awesome for me kind of like validates my view and my thesis on things um because this is coming directly from the cto of a protocol that has been working on layer 2 stuff for a very long time blueprint was one of the first zk roll ups live on ethereum if not the first i don't know if they're actually the first but they were definitely one of the earliest and they've been growing and they've been kind of like promoting the virtues of layer 2 for a very long time now so if anyone knows you know the uh how to kind of describe this technology the trade-offs the the benefits and all that sort of stuff it's definitely looping so definitely go check out this

blog post when you get a chance all right i think this is the last thing about layer two so lyra announced today that they have integrated with one inch on optimism so you can now basically use the one-inch decentralized exchange aggregator on uh on kind of lyra to do uh to provide in-app swapping which is really cool uh it's obviously accessing the best pricing across multiple liquidity sources in d5 um one inch uses the user's pathfinder which is their kind of like i think proprietary algorithm uh which finds the best pairs across like ethereum um uh bsc polygon and and optimistic ethereum of course and all that sort of stuff so i mean this post has more detail about it what you know and how to use it and

and how it's directly integrated you could see there on the gif uh if you just click swap at the top here it kind of like brings up this which is powered by one inch which is really really cool uh so it's not like you have to go to a different site you can just start a different website different app you can just stay on lyra and do this directly from the app which i thought was really cool um but yeah the blog post has more details definitely go check that out if you haven't already so the epns project announced today that they are kind of like beginning their journey to decentralizing the protocol over time so there's this street thread and this blog post here um that basically describes uh how they're gonna go towards community governed push notifications using the push erc20 governance token now disclosure i'm a

seed investor in epm and scr uh but i think this is really cool to see i think it's it's awesome when projects or protocols at least kind of like do or at least try to decentralize um from the start like from very early on rather than leaving it to later because if you leave it to later it becomes harder because what ends up happening is that it's kind of like what happened with uni swap where they had a massive community and they basically said okay well here's the token he you can do governance now we'll do decentralized governance and what ends up happening is you have way too many people in the kitchen you have no kind of like i guess i wouldn't call it centralized leadership but you have no stewardship at the higher levels because um uni swap labs release this and basically wipe their hands with it

because they didn't want any regulatory pressure uh and you know what that leads to is basically indecision and and kind of a little bit of a mess and i'm just using unisop as an example there's plenty of other examples out there but that's why i like to see kind of decentralization and setting up kind of like these dowels and governance things uh from the start here so there are kind of like four roles within epns governance the first is a push nominee which uh community members who can be delegated push to vote on proposals a push delegate nominees who have 75 000 push delegated and can create new proposals uh push delegator push token holders who can vote and and or delegate tokens and push champions individuals from across the ecosystem who help champion the epnf governance framework and keep the community updated now

this blog post goes through each of these in detail it's quite a detailed blog post i'm really glad that they kind of like described it all here and how it's all going to work and how i guess like the the governance process in general will work with the push tokens and you can kind of see like the distribution of tokens and stuff like that as well so definitely go check out this blog post if you haven't already so this new dao i guess called enter dao was announced yesterday and they claimed to be building a gateway to the metaverse so they were announced and they also oh sorry they came out of stealth and they also announced their fundraise so they raised 1.75 million dollars in a seed round from a bunch of uh different kind of investors in the ecosystem here uh uh backers from kind

of like lime chain uh universe xyz and barbara umbridge here and these are part of like the core team as well um which is which is cool to see so you can see the core team kind of like everyone working on it here uh but essentially what uh entertail describes it as itself as is a decentralized organization on the ethereum blockchain founded with the mission to build products enabling new markets within the metaverse economy through a lineup of core products enterdow aims to empower users users metaverse land owners investors brands and djs of all kinds by tackling pain points like access to metaverse land its capital efficiency as well as ux and onboarding to metaverse games um so their immediate roadmap includes the dow governance module yield farming campaign nft drop and most importantly

two core products entered and entered there will be governed by the inter token of course uh and more details are coming in their white paper so just a kind of like i guess exit stealth announcement here this kind of looks to me like something like yield guild where essentially creating a dao where people can kind of like come together tackle the pain points of getting involved with different uh different kind of like nfts or metaverse stuff whether that be not being able to kind of get access to an nft to play a game because it's too expensive so you just kind of like borrow it and stuff like that so yeah this is cool to see another kind of player entering this arena here but as i said there's not much more details in the blog post but they say a white paper is uh which is coming soon

so uh you know this this person uh from uh the ethereum foundation i've come across him before his name is actually very similar to mine i thought it was funny and he's in ethereum his name is antonio sanso it's just so similar to my name but anyway um enough about that he he basically published a blog post today uh uh on the ethereum foundation's blog called secured number one protecting the ethereum consensus layer so this seems to be following in i guess the kind of i get a vein of uh the uh the posts from uh danny ryan when he does uh kind of like finalize the finalized uh which is covering kind of like the group's taking consensus layer in the in the research and development side of things whereas this blog pro series seems to be wanting to cover the kind of like security of

the consensus layer that being the proof of stake beacon chain so basically this post is a small update on the security uh kind of like stuff that's happening there what they're doing uh bls signatures stuff like that i mean it's pretty technical but if you're interested in this sort of stuff definitely go read these blog posts and from the looks of things it's going to be a series as well so definitely keep up with what uh and antonio sanzo is doing here all right last thing i wanted to talk about was this interesting metrics metric that coinmetrics put out today where they said ethereum added more than 6.2 million addresses that are holding 0.01 to 1 8 from year to date so from the beginning of the year to today there's been 6.2 million new addresses that are either holding 0.01 to 18. now

they say here user adoption is growing rapidly and was not meaningfully impacted by the crash being kind of like the the i guess like the crash over the like maybe may and june like the recent one as well but the funny thing is is that i think when you look at these kind of charts you have to contextualize them and i know i do this on the data pump which i know i owe you guys it's been like three months since i did the last one i promise to get one out soon i'm gonna try really hard to do it this weekend i just need to find the time um but anyway uh the way i would contextualize this chart is that the ethereum network's been expensive to use for a while so you need eth to just just for the gas phase like if you want to do a unisop trade it's

like what fifty dollars at a hundred grain or something like that so that is uh at current price of eighth i mean that's what zero it's not it's zero point zero one five eight or something like that you right so everyone who's got more than zero point zero one uh or zero point zero one five eight just to pay the fee to to use uni swap is already gonna fall into this so i think as the fees trend up in dollar terms they also are kind of like obviously trend up in eighth terms as well um and then you get kind of like uh this happening here so for me what i like to see is i get i mean i guess in context as well this makes sense because it means that more users are kind of using the chain but they need kind of

like ease to pay the gas fees and all that sort of stuff but it's just like very nuanced where it's like okay well are they uh you know how much kind of like is this is new users or how much is it people using new addresses and kind of like having uh ethan there to pay fees or whatever how much is is going to fees i mean obviously a lot is going to fees and all that sorts of stuff so i tend to look at these on on the data pump videos i usually look at the the metrics that are higher than this like one ether or more or kind of like 10 eighth or more rather than 0.01 maybe 0.01 is too too kind of like uh i guess small here to take into account the gas fees maybe you want to kind of like do

something like a thousand dollars so like 0.03 or something as your baseline because a thousand dollars i mean the gas bays aren't that high but maybe someone's just put a thousand dollars into ethereum and he's playing around with it they've got a thousand dollars worth of eight they want to go use some d5 they want to go do some things uh and obviously they're paying fees as well so i'll go over this more on the next data pump that i do because as i said this is one of the metrics i look at but always always when you see metrics you need to put them in context you can't just take them at face value and these guys this is the same for any metric in life i mean you can use a metric to paint any narrative that you want that's why whenever i see see things like this

not to say coinmetrix is trying to paint any narrative one way or the other but when i see generally kind of like metrics being posted by people and people are trying to paint a narrative about it i kind of like dig deeper and say okay what are the nuances here what is actually true and what's not true what what's a gray area all that sorts of stuff so yeah just to kind of little bit of a i guess context around that but i think that's going to be it for today so thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give the video a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all next week thanks everyone