Launching a Public Goods Social Network with Glen Weyl

Transcript

foreign [Music] podcast if you're just joining us we are building a coordination and network Society of thousands of hacker streamers and doers focusing on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and it's published every Tuesday and Thursday if you want to learn more you can go to the greenfield.network website where you can download the Greenfield book for free join the Discord or become a member of your local green pill Network my guest today is Glenn Weil uh who should need no introduction to the green pillow audience my work at Bitcoin um and later super modular has been built on top of Glenn's work uh radical markets and quadratic funding are some

of the things that we have talked about together and eventually this sort of Loop in which Glenn is the theorist behind quadratic funding well Glenn and Zoe hitzig and vitalik Buddha quadratic funding paper but I'd say my most active dialogue these days is with Glenn Weil Glenn is a lead at Microsoft research founder of radical exchange founder of globe core reality Institute and is also writing a book about the concept of plurality which is basically lots of fun ideas in there around cooperation across social distance and very applicable if we're building a regenerative pro-social crypto movement in this episode we're talking about a quadratic funding social network that I launched so if you're watching on video you may notice that I'm not doing this recording in my

normal Studio I am recording this episode in Paris France and I am about to step onto the ECC stage on Monday morning and to present a quadratic funding social network and so this episode with Glenn is about that quadratic funding social network and in general uh what are the ways in which we can in our town squares in our digital Town squares which are these social networking sites fund public goods and one of the things that I'm really excited about here is that people might spend 15 minutes per quarter funding public goods on bitcoin or on optimism or on CLR fund but uh we all spend many hours per day on social media and so what if we could embed these kind of

pro-social mechanisms around public goods funding straight away into our social media and um that's what we've launched at quadratic lenser.xyz so if you go to quadratic lenser.xyz you will see a fork of lenister um which is a social media app that kind of looks like a web 3 Twitter and on quadratic lenster um for the next four days you'll be able to tip people that have posted using that hashtag ECC hashtag and I've put up a hundred or sorry a 10K uh match quadratic match there so um you might be tipping a post on social media and but with like 30 cents or or a dollar but uh that Creator might get

tens or hundreds of dollars because of the quadratic match Okay so we've taken quadratic funding and um and we've and we've put it into the lens ecosystem instead of liking a post you can now micro tip a post and have that post matched by the quadratic matching pool that I've put up so um I'm really interested in the idea of how do we up regulate pro-social behavior in our information comments how do we move from this race to the bottom of the brain stem we've got an Advertising based business business model on Facebook Facebook and on Twitter um and because of that we're trying those those applications are trying to keep you on site more how do you keep

people on site more well you elicit dopamine rushes and you elicit fear and outrage and Division and um this is what what philosophers like Daniel schrockenberger call the race to the bottom of the brain stem is this idea that um these social media sites because they've got like super powered AIS putting in our brains and and trying to measure what we find to be the most dopamine-inducing or fear-inducing so they can keep us on site more our upregulating content that does those things more and so you get a generation should have content creators that are just focused on chit posting and and things that create fear and outrage well what if we could reverse the race to the bottom of the brain stem and go create a race to the top of the brainstem what if

we could create social media algorithms that up regulate public goods because public goods are good and they upregulate cooperation across distance and pro-social behavior would people use that and would it be a powerful way for creators to earn by contributing to the public good so that's some of the ideas that that Glenn and I will talk about in the episode but um this episode is an interview with Glenn but it's also kind of an advertisement for quadraticlenster.xyz which for the next four days will have uh quadratic subsidies for posts that that have the hashtag ECC tag on them so um while you're listening to the episode maybe

open up quadratic lenser.xyz in a browser window and play with the quadratic funding bill built into the lens ecosystem public goods funding in our town square is the theme of this episode um special shout out to the lens team for uh the lens ecosystem I should say for helping us build this they've uh we've been cooking this for about nine months now and also shout out to the gitcoin ecosystem who now have a protocol for quadratic funding I didn't have to rebuild uh any of the quadratic funding guts here we just use gitcoins aloe protocol which is their protocolized version of quadratic funding so uh putting Bitcoin in lens together in an integration has been a

lot of fun and one more shout out to our raid guild raid Guild is the dev shop that uh that I that I've been working with on actually building quadratic lenster and if you need Dev Talent uh to build your web 3D app couldn't recommend Ray guild war they're awesome so um yeah that's that's the Preamble uh if you can't tell I'm really excited about this idea of public good spending in the Town Square I really think it's profoundly got a ton of upside for Humanity we spend hours a day on social media and so what if we could program public goods funding into that social media is the theme of this episode so without further Ado I give you Glenn Weil and quadratic lannister.xyz enjoy is an open Global Collective working to finance and

democratize the governance of synthetic biology Technologies to protect the future of our planet research and progress into synthetic biology is critically constrained by the world of nation-state regulations and bureaucracy from middlemen but the potential that synthetic biology has for the world is massive it can produce a world in total harmony with nature we can grow stuff using cells like software it's awesome and the best part is we no longer have to pull carbon out of the ground to grow and maintain civilization don't you think we should be funding this Valley Dow does and that's what they're here to do to try and make the solar Punk World of Tomorrow a reality today so join Valley Dao right now and save the planet at valleydow.bio hey Glenn how's it going hey Kevin always pleasure to be with you

yeah likewise so we just launched a thing today at ECC it's called quadratic lenster.xyz basically what we did was we took quadratic funding as we've all seen on git coin grants and uh embedded it into the lens news feed so now when you're scrolling for the next four days uh if you scroll quadratic lancer.xyz you can see any posts that are about hashtag ECC and you can attach micro tips to those posts and those will be subsidized by the quadratic matching pool that my company is super modular has put together ten thousand dollars so we're taking public goods funding and

embedding it natively into a social network and the kind of grand statement that I'm trying to to make here is you know you might spend 15 minutes per quarter doing your contributions on grants every quarter but we all spend several hours a day on social media or least some of the younger Generations do what if we could embed social uh public goods funding straight into the Town Square and um you know instead of creating social networks that are just around creating dopamine rushes and um you know things that outrage us things that that trigger uh Deep Emotions for social networks that are based off of advertising what if we could finally enable micro transactions through the internet and make them work and embed them into social media and do

public goods funding there is kind of my frame of uh bringing quadratic funding to social media but I'm really excited to get into this episode with you and talk about putting public goods funding into our digital Town squares uh what do you like about the experiment what do you think we should be looking for in just exploring that design space together so um that's my long Preamble so I'd love to get your your reaction first of all I mean the general idea is something I think is very important and exciting you know when you guys asked me during one of your shelling Point events to give in one word my favorite public good I said language uh and I stand by that um languages and communication are our

greatest uh public goods and you know you're for you're squarely taking it on in this project I think that's a wonderful thing you're also speaking directly to something that Jaren Lanier has been talking about for years and you know you guys should really be in touch with him and think about having them involved in this in some way because you know he said for years that you need to move to a sustainable micro payment based way of thinking about social media and content creation and I think that's the direction you're heading so it's uh that's exciting in terms of the details I think there's a lot for us to get into there's been a really exciting

development in the last few years of creative pluralistic incentive and attention schemes within the uh you know social media landscape we just had a plurality Institute Symposium that was largely about that uh the bridging um bridging system Symposium and a lot of other social networks are starting to take this stuff seriously as well with Twitter Community notes um you know people in Mastodon Community are enthusiastic about this kind of thing too so I think this this is having a moment that it needs to have it on it's super important and I'm excited that you're bringing quadratic

mechanisms into the conversation they're ones that I'm passionate about and um you know I think they because they are such a good mechanism for public goods and public goods are so critical to social networks and communication uh you know they're a great match for each other and we could talk about exactly how they match and all the same ways more as the program goes on uh I think that as the person who was one of the co-authors of the original quadratic funding paper I've got to say that it's been such a gift because for me as a developer to build a quadratic funding uh application at git coin and and now use this quadratic funding mechanism on social networks and the reason I'm

excited about it is that using quadratic funding you can give a dollar and you can have tens or hundreds of dollars of impact and I kind of felt like the whole reason why micro tipping doesn't work on social media is like you give someone 30 cents using crypto and you've given them a taxable event uh but you know you give someone 30 cents with a 100 quadratic match and oh my gosh you know that's that's a meal for them uh or at least or several meals and so um I I really love how quadratic funding makes the maker tips actually the substantial amounts of funding for these creators and it's been a real gift and so thank you to vitalik and Zoe uh and you for uh for writing the Project funding paper it's it's been a real uh game theoretic optimal tool to have in

my tool belt as a software developer the way I think about it is that there's kind of two approaches to sort of user feedback generating credibility in these environments right now there's linear tipping and there's ratings um and I actually think people are kind of more willing to rate they know it has some impact they know it doesn't generate a taxable event it does it's not as heavy weight you know um so they they feel like they get that scale on the impact they have relative to the amount they're putting in um but the incentives aren't very clear there you know they're kind of weird people cluster to the extremes you know

um on the other hand tipping um has all these problems with it but at least there's a little bit more skin in the game um and I think what you know the quadratic approach that you guys are taking has the capacity to do is to sort of get the best of both of those worlds uh I get better than the best of both of those worlds you know yeah I wonder if you could say more uh I know that you and I in the our prep call for this episode talked a lot about Twitter Community notes and I wonder if if you can say what you like about that and how you think that that's trending yeah so I mean um I think one core idea behind quadratic voting is to reward things that get support that is

genuinely broad or authentic um so those are like that you think Broad and authentic um and the problem with social media today is that we get too much content that is narrow and AstroTurf I think Twitter community no it's like what you're doing is an attempt to try to surface Broad and authentic content so it's a it's a sort of fact checking like service but rather than imposing facts from above from some Authority it allows them to emerge from uh the community on the basis of what a

diverse range of uh still trusted so they're not it's not like it's there's there's no role for authorities they do have authorities in it but um they've got a diverse range of authorities and the things that get surfaced to the end users are the things that attract a set from a diverse range of those authorities I think that's an approach that has a lot of a lot spiritually in line with what you guys are trying to do now there's some important sort of algorithmic differences and I actually think probably the best version is some mixture of these things and we can talk about that but they're a little bit more diverse Ascent you guys are a little bit

more focused on eliciting how important something is to people um and uh you know but both things are important signals well um I'd love to talk about those mechanisms uh we've had Joe Miller on the Greenfield podcast a few episodes ago um and talked about plural uh cluster mapping quadratic funding uh the the version of of quadratic funding social network that we launched on quadratic lancer.xyz uh is just plain vanilla quadratic funding but if it's successful if we successfully prove that people care about funding public goods in their Town squares will be iterating putting more Cycles into making it better and we might iterate towards something more

like plural qf cluster mapping qf um I'm wondering in your words if you could describe why why that's better and what kind of things we would see if we implemented cluster wrapping or plural qf let's let's take take one step back maybe first and just and talk a little bit about I think you know one issue is rewarding people but another issue is attention and I think that's an important thing to think about is you know um you could have the signals that come out of qf feed into rewards people get but one major reward people get is just that people look at their stock um and I think an important thing to think about is how you incorporate the

signals that you're generating into the algorithm uh for content prioritization and not into what gets rewarded so one of uh I I had a uh Daniel Spock they were on the podcast and one of the things we talked about is this race to the bottom of the brain stem that develops on social media where because social media ranking algorithms are based on the number of likes that you get um and the likes are based off of what either outrages people or um it was just a dopamine Rush um then the algorithms are upregulating content that is like is is the most outrageous to us because they want to keep us on site longer and that maximizes profit longer um and so there's a race to the bottom

of the brainstem because the it creates this race where content creators have to create the most like dopamine rush or fear uh inducing content in order to elicit that outrage and and that's what the algorithm is based off so one of the sort of like frames that I'm going to use in my CC talk uh is what if we could create a race to the top of the brainstem what if we create a social network that upregulates content that is public good um as opposed to just like what outrages us and I think that that's quite a provocative idea here is um the the people who are creating the most public good should have their content the most up regulated and that creates our a reflexive cycle where content creators see the people who are doing the most good getting the most

attention and they'll switch the type of content that they create uh around um being worry oriented towards the public goods and this this can just happen by replacing the main feedback mechanism in the network with likes which are just things that give you a dopamine Rush with it with tips uh and especially quadratic tips which will be the most plural uh public goods funding oriented content out there and so that's like kind of one of my big Ideas is um reward where people with more attention the more public goods they're doing and I'll just say that this is not purely theoretical I actually built a quadratic funding social network into Bitcoin V1 back in 2020. uh this is one of my covid projects and I actually kind

of was able to decentralize customer support on the network people would ask oh how do I do X on the network and then people respond oh you got to do Y and Z and then they will get microchips and they would get up regulated in the content and um it was kind of interesting to see that behavior change when we introduced quadratic funding micro tips in in git coin V1 so I'm excited to bring it to the broader World um does that elicit any thing to for you and is that we were talking about when you said you want to up regulate uh attention of uh reward people with attention when they when they do things for the public good yeah I I get I mean all I miss like very simple which is that uh if likes or the in to the standard algorithm similar

sort of quadratic funding uh scheme can be an input here um and now really interesting thing to work with Glenn you know yeah so so my sort of frame had been that like likes or things that like give you a dopamine Rush um whereas tips are like a little bit more skin in the game it's like something I actually value if that would be my hypothesis but there's also a lot of subtlety to all of these things because um of course quadratic funding in its simplest version is just based on the basically the number of people and the amount of money that they give and it's possible that that could come up from a uh small and concentrated community and

in fact we do see things like that happening so um if you think about small donor campaign contributions which a lot of people are excited about and celebrate um if you look at like who what candidates have actually managed to succeed most in in those um it's been extremist candidates um it's been you know Sanders and yeah so it's important to keep in mind that there's something to that logic right but uh without having neg down votes and without having an accounting for

Community groups that can be captured by a small Enthusiast group now that I I genuinely do believe that if you have downloads and you normalize them and it's it's accepted that won't happen because um there's more enthusiastic negativity on both Sanders and Trump then there is enthusiastic positivity on them but I think if you don't think about those things and you just have the positive side you could have a tendency to encourage extremist voices to be surfaced even while you don't but you know it's something unexperimentally obvious obviously yeah well I'm just remembering Bitcoin grants around four

when we experimented with negative voting which was basically you would give a dollar uh to the matching pool in order to take away matching from someone that you thought was a public bad and um uh I think that it's it's something that uh Bitcoin did not continue using but it's it's something that we could experiment with as we uh explore the quadratic funding social networks everyone wanted to all be positive and and you know right be and what but the reality is content moderation is a central part probably the social networks it is absolutely essential part you cannot have a functioning social network without content moderation now it can be done in a centralized way or it can be

done in a decentralized way and if people are just too squeamish to do content moderation themselves they are inviting Central authorities to do it so if you truly believe in decentralization you have to leave in community punishment as well and this is true of policing as well like uh if you end up in communities that are unwilling to do community policing or unwilling to call out Neighbors when they do something that's problematic then you're gonna you're welcoming in an outside police force so I I genuinely believe that this just sort of I don't want to do anything that is uncomfortable for me

attitude is uh against public goods you know what I mean like public goods require that you discipline yourselves uh so that someone else from the outside doesn't have to come and do it um I think that's an important point and uh if I had to guess I'd say the new guard at Bitcoin probably doesn't even know about negative voting so maybe this will uh be a good reminder to tell them about it during uh ECC um I'm wondering if we want to talk about plural quadratic funding next ah absolutely so um this this comes back so I think one side is negative but another side is that you want to think about those clusters as you define what it means to

have broad support so you know we we said the goal is to get broad support and authentic support right and qf does a great job thinking about authenticity um but breadth is just defined in terms of the number of people but I think many of us would want breath to be defined in terms of not just people but not reinforcing existing social divisions right and it's definitely possible that you could get some very specific pre-existing group to be enthusiastic to have an enthusiasm among significant number of people

for something that actually reinforces those divisions right and so a natural approach is what I mean you know status which is that it looks at the patterns of typical disagreement defines opinion groups by those and then up regulates content that um achieves support across those different groups and there's something called um plural funding which is an extension of quadratic funding which is an attempt to do things like this um and uh there's you had an episode

with Joel Miller this is very much still evolving and developing but um it's a natural way to think about this possibility yeah Joel's on the podcast a few episodes ago we'll have a link to his episode in the show notes um basically I think it it in a very reductionist way the work that he's doing is trying to find ways to build more cooperation across social distance into quadratic funding so basically if person X Y and Z uh have um are very different from each other and uh then their contributions uh to um it will be Amplified if they cooperate across social distance whereas if there's a group of people that only

contribute to the same Grant then their comp contributions will get dampened almost as if they're only one identity so if you have 100 people that only contribute to the same Grant they'd be treated as one identity would be an extreme version of this plural quadratic funding and so um that's the mechanism I'm excited about it in social media given how divisive and polarizing our existing social media is having an algorithm that not only funds the creators but helps them Bridge across their distance their differences and help regulate that kind of behavior while it feels like really like we was talking to Greenville about programming our values into our money uh but it feels like we're programming our values into our social media uh infrastructure for doing something like that and that makes me very exciting excited so any reactions that have you

ever um have I ever told you about Lionel Penrose and the digressive proportionality rule uh you have let's go for it so um the origin of quadratic voting if you want to take it back very far is this paper in 1945 by this guy named Lionel Penrose um and he asked the question if you have like a European Union how many votes should member states have based on population like one answer is it should be proportion of the population another answer is that every state gets more and various institutions in European Union have at various times used those

different rules um but neither is totally satisfying um and what he argued is that the correct answer is that each country should have uh votes based on the square root of its population and in fact in the nice treaty something roughly like that was implemented as something exact that exact role was proposed by the Polish delegation um and the logic was that uh the people who have are in the same country who have aligned interests and aligned interests will tend to Trump uncorrelated interests

so either if you want everyone to have equal say you actually have to down weight the votes of those people who are strongly connect correlated with each other right uh and so that was actually way before anything like quadratic loading was ever thought about um and actually you can think of quadratic voting and that rule as both just like two special cases of something much broader so quadratic voting is roughly like you start with some kind of coin voting but they say well the problem is like what if you have a whale who like takes all the interests and like concentrates them in one person and uses that to adapt the system right

and so you say okay well that's actually the same problem that Penrose was talking about it's that like you have all this money that's like correlated by this one person and so you sort of want to down weight its voice with a square root you know yeah and um in uh in the Penrose case it's people who are quarterly but in more generally like there's all kinds of things that are correlated in all kinds of ways through different entities across different settings and really the the principle is much broader than that it's actually a principle that comes out of statistical Theory called generalized linear estimation which says that you basically should like figure out all the set of

correlations and you should put them into what's called an eigenspace where you have genuinely independent contributions to the conversation and then you should take the independent contributions and sort of all the ways that they're affecting the conversation should be sort of netted out and square rooted um so like that's actually kind of deep principle that lies underneath all this stuff and that Joel's work is sort of trying to get towards yeah well it's exciting stuff knowing just how solid of a theoretical Foundation it stands on and um the fact that Joel is building it into bitcoin's aloe protocol um is exciting to me because a Rube like me who could never ever do the math

could just integrate it into my quadratic funding social network uh behind some apis so um yeah it's exciting research and I and I'm looking forward to seeing how it evolves I think you know part of it is the back end that Joel is developing but there's also going to be a lot of really important work or sort of designers and communicators because um getting people to visualize those social relationships to understand them they need to understand their funds impact the eventual decision when there is this very rich formula that stands between the it's going to be a really interesting and exciting challenge I think yeah yeah I always remember um when we launched WTF is qf.com um which is has a little calculator on

it where you can input the some numbers of different amounts going to Grants and that was always a really effective way for me to explain quadratic funding to people but um so that stepwise leap of explaining quadratic funding what are the ways in which we could visualize the plurality of communities that we belong to you know uh I play Ultimate Frisbee I'm a father I'm a husband I'm a computer scientist uh I live in Colorado like these are all the intersectional identities that I ascribe to in comparing those with with everyone else and seeing how that affects uh how plural quadratic funding would allocate funds to me I think that there's some really interesting visualization communication opportunities and um yeah maybe maybe I'll twist some arms and see

if we can't build them into WTF sqf or maybe host some bounties or smackathons on that theme as things develop so um that's definitely a takeaway for me there's very cool things that one can do with like graph visualization and so forth so I I think it gets into the point of like actually being sort of visually beautiful potentially uh to show some of that stuff so a few other things to think about uh Kevin one is um the get in get coin got a little bit lost over time um but if you think about get Hub you know which is someone I work with a lot it's kind of a social network uh in a certain way okay priorities are prioritizing issues is a huge part of

uh what it means to do a collaborative open source project and so thinking about the way that a variety of different social network contacts can harness this type of thinking I think is very interesting and in fact in the work we're doing on the plurality book and got forget we're gonna be prioritizing issues using quadratic funding or variations there are those just on a call with Leon and others about that yesterday so like that's another intersecting context that's kind of like this um but of course you know similar things are true in Reddit a variety of different social network contacts um another thing to think about in terms

of the plural quadratic funding thing is um you you know because you want Bridge differences you naturally want to have some um you know role in the algorithm for this bridging there's many different differences at many different levels and I think actually the sort of crypto uh social media environment's very interesting one to be looking at is it doesn't light up with a standard U.S political divides so like within the the crypto Twitter whatever crypto you know um lens um my guess is divides are more likely to be about

um different protocols that people are excited about different uh properties of those protocols stake versus you know other decentralizations Etc um and bridging those divisions and making the crypto World more cohesive um is an interesting goal uh but it's also the case that the crypto world has differences from the rest of the world right now you know and if the crypto World becomes more cohesive it's not even that on Nat reduces the divisions within like say U.S politics or whatever

you know um yeah so but that to me that's great that's what pluralism is about it's it's it's it's okay there's a lot of different Collective organizations there's there's different churches there's different states there's different countries there's different um you know uh uh there's different religious groups and Civic groups and and so forth and you want each of those to up regulate content that promotes solidarity and Community within their group and you want other groups to sort of come in and cut across that and not

break solidarity that cuts across them in other groups you know yeah and that's exactly how we get pluralistic cooperation you know is by what I would call quilt we think you know quilt with a lot of different cross stitches don't rip welds with a single uh seam are very easy to run that building of a diverse range of solidarities even if some of those solidarities um undermine uh potentially even broader solidarities is I think exactly what we want I think that John Lennon Imagine there's no religion imagine there's no country I think it's actually precisely wrong

it's not countries and religions that divide us they unite us into some kind of a group but we need more solidarities beyond that you see what I mean so um we shouldn't want to tear down a thing things that bring us together we should want to build up new ones on top of them I think that that was one of my favorite things we talked about in our prep call for this episode is just the idea of the intersexual communities that I'm in being like sort of like a fabric uh between myself and those communities and myself and all these other notes of people and if we can build social media that strong strengthens that fabric instead of upregulates tears and tearing

in that fabric that I think that um there's there's really something beautiful that we'll start to see across all these intersectional communities um and the type of content and conversations we would have um building within those within those communities so I'm excited to explore that for now I'm just hoping that people use quadratic lenster and experiment with quadratic funding and social media and if I have a small part in uh in in micro tipping taking off in in some of these social media experiments um I'll be tickled pink but the long-term iteration that we want to do is have many groups of communities uh doing quadratic funding rounds around their uh their topics on Leinster and um you know if the the ideal case for me

is you're running a Bitcoin Grand trial let's call it for like 100k why don't you put 10K into uh the community that would be talking about your uh community on Leinster and um you know if we can get to this this world in which you've got many quadratic funding rounds running it once the overlap of those communities and the fabric that we're sort of building at the intersection of those communities with that incentive Matrix gets really exciting uh to me so um yeah the mental model of fabric I think is what I'm gonna gonna take away from this conversation for sure the uh there's a basic conflict between an advertising or a subscription business model and the goal the like you know company uh like a social network

usually says that it has right the social networks usually say our goal is to connect people and to build like a social graph a social network but the thing is that individuals advertisers don't have an interest in a social network right like the thing that they want to buy is attention so you know you can you you can be saying that your goal is X but if what you're selling is attention you're going to maximize attention right um yeah and even in subscription what people are maximizing is entertainment they're not maximizing um

you know it's a consumption good but but Community is not a consumption good right um Community is a productivity good it's a social good right yeah and um there are lots of organizations in our lives that have the purpose of maximizing those things like companies want to maximize the way that their Workforce works together to achieve some goal countries want to achieve some kind of national solidarity to dance a common interest so there are people who want to buy the social graph behaving particular way they're not individuals or advertisers you know now

of course some of them social graph to behave in a way that we wouldn't want them to affect but but the but with you know there's a lot more potential for alignment there if the people who are your financial backers rather than manipulating the algorithm to sell you things are manipulating the algorithm to uh have you connect with other people across lines of division for so that that Community can hold together and be productive there's companies that sell in that way there's companies that sell to corporations there's companies that sell to

governments yeah they sell to organizations like that that have those goals and you know that maybe social media should be funded in a way that's more similar to that well I mean our information Commons in in a way are a public good that's Upstream from all of our other public goods you can't sense make about which public goods are good if your information comments are are poisoned and so I think that there's there's there's maybe something important as a leverage point for uh fixing many of our community dialogues by fixing social media so it feels like a high leverage point to me yeah I think that's right well um Glenn I'm really uh thankful to you for having for doing this episode uh my work is built on top of yours and I hope to continue the

dialogue as I keep practicing stuff and you tell me where the light is uh uh so it's it's been a real pleasure is there anything I didn't ask you want to say and one other thing I would mention is you know um I understand lens is sort of like anyone can sign up for it style social network is that right um I think I think they're behind an invite uh list right now but uh they're eventually going to make it so anyone can sign up well so the invite list is a benefit and a cost I mean one thing that really helped Facebook grow was that they started uh exclusive and they grew gradually from then they tried to grow with people that'll people wanted to interact with and you know a really interesting thing

the quadratic funding could be used for is for invites um and in fact we we use it that way in radical exchange voice um the way that you become part of the radical exchange Voice voting Community is that you get delegated credits by other people for contributions you've made to their to the community and um you can imagine uh growing a somewhat exclusive social network by effectively Community nominations with people being able to weigh in on if someone's a jerk or a disrupter or whatever so anyway that's uh I think another interesting way to apply quadratic funding within this type of

context great well um every time we chat I always come up with a bunch of different build ideas so I'll add that to the list and then also I think earlier we were talking about visualization of plural Concepts in in the intersectionality there so this those are the two build ideas that I'm coming away with uh with from this episode yeah great to talk to you yeah yeah thanks so much for uh for being on Glenn and I'm looking forward to continuing the dialogue or time and keep up the great work yep teacher [Music] already we just heard from Glenn Weil

really excited about some of the ideas that he's working on from plurality to how we can build better social network to um the book that he's working on so um thanks for listening to the greenfield.network podcast again we're trying to feature that people who are building that coordination idea doers person dreamers book sing on using crypto to bring positive sub digital systems to the world I think that Glenn is a shining example of that again my work at git coin was built on top of my theory um and we sort of into this cycle of Glenn coming up with ideas and get coin and myself implementing them and then that gives Glenn and his researchers more data about how they're actually

working empirically so um if you value our work then please make an offering to our algorithmic overlords Please Subscribe rate in a review if you gratify us with likes and sharing this episode that is the source of all of our powers until in a less we create interviewer right until we write our social media algorithms so please subscribe rate review and share and thanks so much for listening to this episode with guy wow peace and love