Kain Warwick: Airdrops vs. ICOs, Infinex Token Launch, And Building Crypto's Super App

Transcript

And we tried both versions of this in the blog post and one didn't land that well and the other one really lands right. So we'll try it in real time here. Right. So >> if it's that good Kane and you're giving me the option to buy it at 10 mil val and this thing [music] is an absolute ripper then it's like all right like I'm in. Anything that you've taken into account what could have gone well you know what could have gone better what you know didn't go so well that now you've implemented into what you're thinking for INX. Welcome back to the RUP. This is your home to learn from the biggest guests, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation. Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber

and taking it to the real world. Sit back, relax, and enjoy it. >> All right, welcome back World TV. We've got Kane. Kane, good to see you, man. >> Hey. Yeah, good to see you, too. >> Nice studio. I see you've done some upgrades. [sighs] >> Yeah. Yeah, we've uh we we used to do it downstairs and we've got two floors in the office. We had a place downstairs and we uh moved it upstairs and uh improved improved the surroundings a little bit. >> We saw you showing off the guitar behind the scenes. >> Yeah, I've got a guitar back there. Um I've got more guitars in my house. Uh so usually if I do a podcast in my house, people are I've got like a Moog uh one as well back there. So any music people are like, "Oh, that's [laughter]

Well, dude, let's not bury the lead here. You wrote an article on paragraph.com, which may be my first time even seeing that site. So, props to you for introducing me. It looks like a a mirroresque site, like a web three kind of blog. >> Yeah, it's the it's so I was I got rugged by Mirror uh last week or two weeks ago. Um I think Mirror pivoted into Paragraph or it's evolved into that or something. So mirror is being shut down and moved to so >> well the title is Infinex is inevitable and INX is coming. Um and my biggest takeaway from the entire article was the Gainzy poll of have you tried using Infinex. 23 votes 91% said no while

everyone else is complaining about crypto UX. Meanwhile, you've done your part. The first time that we had you on talking about Infinex was well over a year ago. Basically, the theme was, guys, we can't just have all the trading activity and all the new people come on to Binance. It's just not going to work. We need to make a DeFi UX that is better than a centralized exchange that feels better, that operates better, and it's all DeFi. And needless to say, you know, you spent the last 18 months doing that. Thing is, you told me like or you put a tweet or I I was texting with you and you were saying that you still hadn't reached product market fit.

>> Um, this this may have been six months ago. So something changed in the last six months because now Infinex is inevitable. >> So I think I think that we are just on the edge like that's the start of the curve right for product market fit where you know we are we're seeing both internally like within our team and and also within like the patron cohort right um you know we've got this patron cabal group of like five or six hundred people um who are like our early testers. we're starting to see this loop of like, you know, they're using it more and more as their daily sort of crypto uh interface, right? The way the way that they're interacting with crypto. Um, I think the

big shift was like adding an extension. Um, but also the pers interface is very good. So, you know, not everyone's a per trader, but if you are, it's it's a very good interface. And then, you know, the the platform itself, uh, you know, the gas abstracted token swapping, bridging, etc. when you add the core functionality of like trading and and um you know an extension so you can interact with DAPs that platform stuff starts to really shine. Before we just had the platform but you couldn't go and use DAPs and that just it didn't really land.

>> Yeah. because you have to go to the platform to use the applications and the user journey has been so entrenched for all of us like you just go to a you just go to to the DEX aggregator you know etc. All right. So, let's go through this then because I I kind of like we can make this like the Infinex token, INX, everything that you need to to know kind of get get the a deeper understanding here. Um, yeah, maybe let's start with this idea of the super app. Um, and then, you know, that kind of goes into what you you were saying with this browser extension uh extension uh you know, leading into the token and the sale and these things.

>> Yeah. So, so you know the super app thesis is basically this idea that um centralized exchanges are the best UX that we have in crypto today. And the only way that we're going to be able to replace them or displace them um is if we build something that feels like something [clears throat] pardon me that feels like a centralized exchange but is onchain uses DeFi. Um and so what does that mean? It means you know you need to be able to buy any token, you need to be able to trade per you need to be able to you know do borrow lend. you need to have like confidence in the custody model etc etc and you have to just be able to log into it on any device right um so you know that that thesis I think

has emerged over the last two years and is getting more powerful and there's a lot of projects that are trying to take that on u you know the form factor of an onchain super app I think will be the dominant form factor over the next you know three to five years um but there's a lot of different ways you can approach it people people are trying to do like you pure mobile approach. Some people are doing web app. Um what we've realized is that we kind of need all of the different form factors. We need an extension. We need a web app. We need a mobile app. We need mobile responsive design. We need all of these different things to um you know make this work. Uh and we've finally landed all of them.

Now we've got an extension that's going to roll out to everyone uh you know in the next uh week or so. >> Holiday is unified crypto payments. Give your users more wherever they are. Go to holiday.xyz to never write a smart contract again. >> Looking for yield that stands out? Infinifi gives you just that. Deposit stable coins and earn far more than the current savings rate. Infinify is a battle tested, reliable defy platform that is ready to go. Head to infinifi.xyz. Kshi is the world's largest [music] prediction market. You can trade on anything in all 50 states. Go to kshi.com to [music] trade today.

>> Very cool. Um, I'd love to hear more about uh, INX in particular, how it's integrated into Infinex. And, you know, you also talked about how patrons weren't necessarily the right form factor for what this value acrruel mechanism could be. You ended up, you know, transitioning that to what, you know, a more fungeable token looks like. Uh, why were patrons wrong? Why was why is INX uh, the correct >> the correct >> as patron holders, sir? You know, >> must mention there a little disclosure. Disclaimer, we are patron holders. We are incentive aligned.

>> Yeah. So, so I think you know the patron was designed for um distribution. We did it effectively an ICO back in in September of last year. Um but it was an NFT mint, not you know initial coin offering. Um but the in in principle the approach was the same. We wanted to sell tokens to everyone at the same price. um and you know not have a seed round that was you know uh fully you know uh spoken for by Dragonfly or something like that, right? Um you know we wanted to to let everyone have a chance to get access to the token at the same price but ICOs back then were probably on the edge of the risk curve and so it made more sense

to do an NFT mint. Um the problem with NFTTS is there's sort of a cursed asset class. Um, and so, you know, there's something to be said for like, and I say that I've got a lot of different entities. Many >> my penguins are just are in a little igloo right now and they're they're quite cold, man. It's >> brutal. It's brutal out there in penguin land. Um, but yeah, so so um, you know, we did this thing with NFTTS. Um I think in the end what what we will get out of it is that the kind of barriers to entry actually ended up being quite um powerful because it forced people to really understand and so you know we didn't have many tourists. There weren't

many people like oh yeah let me just go to Binance and like buy the token and you know dump it or pers or whatever. You had to like go to Blur or OpenC figure out what is this thing why should I own it you know there's a bit of lore behind it. So, so I think we made it much harder and so the people who became patrons genuinely understood the project, understood we were trying to do um but having high barriers to entry for accessing a token is not the best approach long term, right? So we we eventually realized about six months ago like this is just not going to scale. Um I think at the moment there are like 900 patron holders. Um uh it's it's about 3,000 that are in the escrow contract.

So, you know, we people could choose lockups in in the patron sale. So, a lot of people are still in escro contract, but like genuine liquid holders of this NFT, there are 900 people. Um, which is bad even by like NFT standards. Uh, you know, so, so we just don't have wide distribution is the end result. And so, it's like, okay, let's do a token. If we're going to do a token, what should it look like? How should we distribute it? Um, we've had some really interesting information come out, you know, from watching what Meg, Eth, and Monad have done. So, yeah, we we've got a plan for how we distribute the token now and and how we get it launched >> and >> yeah, >> and not just what Meg Ethan and Monad have done, but what you have done with

SNX and Synthetics, too, right? I'm sure there's plenty of learnings as a result of that. anything that you've taken into account what could have gone well you know what could have gone better what you know didn't go so well that now you've implemented into what you're thinking for INX >> so I think one thing that we definitely will not do is an airdrop >> wasn't that the title of the stream today ICOs versus airdrops >> yeah exactly exactly and you know I think so here let me I'll give you like this is the um so you know I wrote that blog post uh I think there were like 10 different versions because we were using it as the kind of framework for us to dial in exactly how we were going to approach this. Like what was the distribution of crates? Who was it going

to? All of this stuff. So like this this blog post was one of the most painful blog posts I've ever written. It took like two weeks and and just a lot of thrashing to get there. Um but there's no airdrop. Um but there is in crates uh INX vouchers. So, I'll give you the two like and we tried both versions of this in the blog post and one didn't land that well and the other one really lands, right? So, we'll try it in real time here, right? So, um you know, imagine Andy, I'm saying to you, okay, um you know, come and connect your uh X account to Infinex, you know, connect your Telegram account. You're a

patron, so you get a bonus. Um and we're going to give you, I don't know, 50,000 INX, right? So, it's going to be like three grand. And you're like, "Okay, cool. Great. Awesome. That sounds good." Right? Okay. >> The alternative is come and connect your X account, connect your Telegram, uh connect your existing Hyperlquid account, right? Or import a wallet, start doing some activity, and we're going to distribute crates. And in some of those crates, there are vouchers that give you the opportunity to buy the Infinex token at a 10 million FTV.

>> Oh, [sighs] that's uh interesting. >> And so you're like you're like which is like on paper worse like clearly worse. Um not as positive EV as the airdrop of free tokens, >> right? But your brain clicks into a different gear of like, wait, you're telling me I get to buy this token for >> just start gambling. You just want just full gamble mode. >> You're like, you're like, okay, that's 100x right? >> Yeah. >> At the current at the current price, right? So all of a sudden you're like, wait, you're giving me a chance to have a 50x, you know, return, and all I got to do is find these these vouchers and and it just shifts your versus like, oh yeah, you're giving me some free tokens

which I'm going to cheat straight away. >> Yeah. and I'm not going to care about it and I'm I have no skin in the game. I'm not, you know, buying them. There's no risk for me, etc. >> And, you know, I wouldn't cheat them because I don't like it, Ken. I would cheat them because I got income tax that I have to pay. >> Sure. >> It's like, >> yeah, exactly. Yeah. >> Do an investment there. There is becomes a long-term cap gain structure that incentivizes you quite literally not to sell. Like, you know, obviously within some given parameters, but I mean, there's other reasons, but as an American, airdrops are really not that great. No, they just I was I was talking to to Luca about this as well, right? And like we saw this when we did the Pudgy airdrop. We did a Penangu airdrop to everyone,

right? And we watched this in real time because we have like real time data. You could see the stream of every single person that was like claim claim jeet. And you know, Invidex is so easy to use. You didn't need to have gas call like we just made it like you know ultra. I was like, we should have I jokingly said like we should have just had one button which was like just like claiming Jeep, right? Like why make people press two buttons and it was dude it was like 95% of people just were like like max sell right um and then I came over to the other side of the room because we have like our engineering team and and um our like marketing comms ops teams are separated by like a staircase in the room. Um, so we call it the DMZ. And I

went over to the other side of the DMZ and I was like, "Hey, um, you know, we need to get a list of all these people that are selling so that we can punish them later." Um, and my head of engineering was like, "What? Uh, we're punishing people. What's going And I was like, did you sell did you just sell your airdrop?" And he's like, "Uh, yeah, I did." And I was like, "Dude, come on." >> Even people in the room that were like just like, "G." >> Yeah. Okay. So, just some just to put some numbers behind this. Um 100% of the INX supply goes to goes to the patrons. There are 100,000 patron NFTts. There'll be 10 billion INX tokens. So 100K INX per patron. This includes the U patron holders as well who will get which is like the the vested ones. Um that the

they'll get a 1 to 10 INX to patrons ratio. Um the Infinex Treasury still has 33% of the supply. Um, and basically still the primary way to access the token is to be holding the NFTs. Um, it'll be a one to 100,000 drop as I just mentioned. Um, and you'll get to keep the NFT which will convert to a PFP kind of like Kaido style if you will. And then there's also going to be a sonar sale. But before we get to the sonar sale, the the the decision that you guys made was to do this crate run idea instead of an airdrop. Um, and the and the incentive structure was such that like you want someone like me to come in, plug in my wallets, plug in my Hyperlquid stuff, plug in my, you know,

Twitter and start to actually use the platform as my main hub of DeFi transacting, uh, to be able to earn different crates and earn the ability to have this early investment opportunity, which feels like a jackpot. Uh, and kind of also is reminiscent of of like Monad boxes in a weird way, too. Um and so like that structure was just clearly more appealing than just like hey Andy here's a couple grand like sell it for your tax purposes and then move on and not use my platform. >> Exactly. And you know you give people an airdrop and there's no you know the challenge is right you give people an airdrop and make them jump through hoops um like opening boxes over the course of three days and you know no one understands why the boxes.

>> Tunes is at our happy hour in New York like last week claiming the fame for it. He's like, "Dude, that was all me. Just, you know, thank me for it, man." I'm like, "Bro," like, >> "Yeah." And, you know, like it was fun. My kids enjoyed it, right? Kids, my kids have pudgies and they enjoyed it. Um, but my daughter the second day was raging because she got less tokens than her brother and she has more pudgies and she's like, "This makes no sense." So, even an eight-year-old was like, "What is this nonsense? Like, why are you doing RNG on these boxes? Like, just like put the tokens in the box, bro."

Like so so [laughter] I think uh I I think there was a there was um a bit of like frustration of you've got to do this stuff which doesn't do anything doesn't help Monad in any way a bunch of hoops like connecting stuff like where was the connectivity to actually you know helping the network launch or whatever like and and so it feels just disconnected and it's like this performative thing um We genuinely believe that we have a good platform and you know one of the interesting things is we sponsored Gain's stream right um and Gainy started using the platform and I watched in real time as he was like holy [ __ ] this is actually really good

like what have I been doing with my life he's like I'm over here using Phantom and like moving Saul and paying gas and like I can just click a button and buy Zcash and and I was like yes exactly right but the problem is everyone on crypto Twitter is like attention poor. Um hard to get, you know, uh hard to get cut through with them. The noise floor is really high. So, we're like, "Okay, we will give you access to the token. We'll give you um some free stuff, prizes, you know, some NFTts, whatever." Um but in order to do that, you have to use the platform.

>> Yeah. >> And and you know, if you don't use the platform, we can never show you that it's good, right? So, we could do an airdrop to 100,000 people and 98,000 of them would dump the token and never look back. And, you know, for what it's worth, I do think there is some sense to that, right? Like to those airdrops because at least those 98,000 people are like, well, I'm not going to FUD them on the timeline. They gave me free money. >> Yeah. >> So, [snorts] it's like, ah, whatever. Like, you know, I I've been calling it like the CT mafia, right? >> Yeah. It's like a hush hush. Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's like a nice project there. it would be a shame if I burned it down sort of thing, right? And it's like, oh, here's a sack of cash. And like, yeah, yeah, you're a good kid. Go get out of here. Um, and it and it's like that's what it's become, right? It's become >> 100% agree >> kind of blood money, which is fine. Like, you know, incentives evolve over time, right? And that's where the incentives have evolved to. So, again, I'm like, sure, you can have your blood money. We'll give the CT mafia their tokens, right? Um, but before we give them to you, just use the platform once, bro. Like, just like create an account, import one wallet.

Like, it's not that hard. And then if you hate it or you don't care or whatever, you can cheat the tokens and move on. But like, I'm not going to just give people tokens without getting them to at least try it. Want simple, want fast, want every chain? Use Relay.link, the fastest bridge in crypto. Transfer your assets crosschain instantly [music] with very low slippage right now on relay.link. >> Yeet is built for big moments. The most fun you'll ever have with your crypto. Go to yeet.com to yeet into your next game.

>> Yeah. I mean, look, I'm stoked because I've used it multiple times. Not in the last, let's say, quarter or two. So I I have not seen like the updated UX but I think like from a you know five to six year onchain DeFi users perspective. It's more kind of about my habitual uh kind of you know thing like I have massive OPSSEAC and like security paranoia from surviving for six years. So I have my sites bookmarked. I have my my my using like the apps that I use. I have the chains that I use and I have the, you know, devices that I use and that's it. And any any point of going elsewhere, there has to be like this massive chance of return for me to do it because it's like I have my habits and I

know what's safe and I know what's smart and like that's what I'm doing and and and honestly it's not it's I don't love it. Like I used to just go ape into any smart contract at any time and just go for it. And you and I talked about this in Hong Kong how like the memecoins changed the market from like who can be earliest to like who actually has some idea of alpha and has done some research and you know and anyhow so I think it's a lot about >> let me ask you this though right like when when Rabby came out so presumably you were a Metamosque user. Of course. >> So, so when Rabby came out, um, did you try Rabby when I did not until about a year? I tried it once. I could I instantly converted over and I've never gone back.

>> Interesting. Okay. So, it took you a year for you to be like, "All right, this has got enough Lindy or like >> like my friends suggest it, you know, yada yada. I see the UX. I saw some improvements on there and I was like, "All right, I'm going to try this out." And then I once I tried it, I was like, "Okay, um, this is just better." >> And so, so this is this is kind of the situation we're in, right? We're in that like rabby metam mask moment of like, how do we incentivize people to try the thing so that they go, "Oh, wow." >> Yeah. >> You know, you faded rabbi for a year. >> Well, if you if if it's that good, Kane, and you're giving me the option to buy it at 10 mil vals ripper, then it's like, all right, like

I'm in. You know what I mean? It's like Yeah. So I think I think the philosophy is right. Let's keep let's keep uh rolling throw rolling through this though. So you guys will also do a sonar sale. Again, this is the distribution that you guys wanted um you know coming from the NFTts. There's not that much info about it quite yet, but maybe you can just give us anything that's not in there or any ideas that you have about this about this. >> Yeah, so you know again in the in the patron sale we had about 3,000 people that participated. It was pretty small.

It was more like an NFT mint, right? Um, you know, NFT mints, you get a few thousand people and then it takes a bit of time for distribution to happen. Um, Sonar, obviously, Mega E had something like 50,000 wallets participate in like 150,000 people KYC, just a an order of magnitude or two more, right? Um and and so um you know we we think that there is an opportunity to um before we do TG when there's kind of you know maximum interest uh to you know give people a chance to buy the token again right um the thing we have to dial in is like pricing and you know how many tokens do we sell um obviously um again there's

data that is you know emerging in real time like >> monads pricing versus mega eat and you know meg being 20x overs subscribed versus like a different mechanism that's not an auction like you know there's a lot of different ways that you could cut this so we haven't yet locked down exactly how we're going to do it but the goal is get you know a lot more people exposure to the INX token before TG >> Yep makes sense >> not your keys not your coins from the team that pioneered cold storage treasure has just released its new wallet Guys, if you are still using hot wallets in 2025, 2026, you are missing the entire [music] point. Secure your coins. Get a treasure at treasure.io.

>> Havachi is fast [music] and private per trading secured by ZK with Celestia underneath. Go to habachi.xyz to start [music] trading today. >> So, I think I mean, not that that's not the interesting part, but we got to come back to this crates because I'm reading this more now and there's a you're basically taking the gambler out of all of us and saying, "Go gamble, guys." Like, good luck. you know, you're you're going to give away hyper NFTts, Pudgy Penguins. Um, you're there's a chance to buy uh with the INX vouchers, there's a chance to buy the token at 1 million FTV, not 101, all the way up to 500 million. Obviously, I assume it'll be somewhat of a normal distribution curve.

Uh, the majority being maybe in the 300 range, 250 or maybe even closer to the 500 range. Um, >> and so, so how do we get So, okay, how do I maximize my crates? like I I I just go all in on crate maximization. What's the strategy here? >> So So we did this with Crate Run. So we had a campaign called Crate Run, which is a TVL campaign um late last year um which I think was the most fun interesting thing that we've done so far. And and you know, people loved it. The the OG crate runners um you know, still talk about it. It was it was um a very fun campaign. And it was simple.

you just, you know, the more TVL you put in, the more crates you got. But inside the crates, we had this um mechanic where you could get basically bonuses, like TBL bonuses, right? And so it created this very interesting race condition where like the earlier you were, you got compounding bonuses, you got more crates, and um you know, it it became a very interesting game theory. Um we've tweaked that a little bit with this where you know, this is not about TVL. um we you know we have 500 mil of TVL now so it's not you know more TVL is not really useful for us um what we're looking for is as many people as possible to try the platform um so we're we're trying to make it um very easy for

people to uh bring their existing um uh seed phrases and import them um so you know you got a ravi seed phrase you can import it you can use it in the infinex extension um if you have historical uh trading activity on per whether it's like hyperlquid or GMX or synthetics or whatever you'll get rewarded for that. Um so there's a whole bunch of retroactive crates that you'll get and then there's also going to be crates for using the platform today. So the first the first kind of campaign is going to be um centered around per uh but eventually we will have a swaps campaign, we'll have an NFT campaign, we'll have a bunch of different campaigns for different features within the platform. So, this is not the only

time we're going to do crates. It's probably pret, you know, kind of intentional um to really drive people to create an account, get a wallet that they can start using. >> Man, this fees paid in ETH for chain usage for me is going to be oh my gosh. >> I know, right? >> I remember mid2020 looking at it and it was like 50 ETH and that was like five years ago. So, I mean, we're in there. And then so then, okay, so there's the CT mafia. Your, by the way, your writing style is just, I mean, it's just it's I mean, come on, dude. Like, is this a real industry? Like the the bot extermination, the smelly old crates, the what if you don't trade perspects

volume? Because I feel like that's a little bit unfair if it's just pers volume. >> Yeah, that's a good point. Um we have uh a bunch of data sets that we're curating right now. Um there are some challenges I guess with the difference between per spot volume and how you you know uh different fee structures etc. Um so we don't want anything be gameable I guess. Um so we will be looking at that and and figuring out how we dial it in. Um I'm trying to get like OGDYDX volume and and Antonio's ghosting me so um like hopefully he sees this eventually. I don't know what what he's doing uh living over there in Cosmos land, but um but yeah, hopefully we can get, you know, we're just going to get a pile of uh per legacy per data and then we'll

slice it up and figure out how we distribute it. >> Yep. Yep. Very cool. Um and then I guess the last thing that we got for you is just like timeline here. I mean, anything you could that you can share with regards to like like what does your Q4 look like here? So I think first thing um you know again this is all leading up to TGE right? So the step one is um do this big release and get the create run uh campaign going um so we can start to get some traction. You know the anecdotal evidence we have from like new users who've never used Infinex coming in and importing a wallet is that it's fairly compelling when when they see it. Um, so you know, we're going to be watching very closely for how

traction goes in that in that first period. And you know, the best vouchers, the cheapest vouchers will be in the first maybe few days or you know, first week. Um, so there's a strong incentive to come in and like not fade and wait. Yeah, exactly. So, so um that's probably the most alpha I think. >> Yeah, that is the most alpha. We should we we could have just had this part of the conversation and I cut it out. Yeah, exactly. So that that's probably the first two weeks, right? Once we've got a level of traction there where we've kind of maximized attention, maximized mind share, then we'll do the sonar sale. Um so that takes us into sometime in December. Um once we've done the sonar

sale and that's wrapped up, which we're going to try and do hopefully in about a week, keep it fairly tight. We don't want it to drag on for a long time. Um then we'll be ready for TG. >> So TG moving quick here. It's quick. Like, you know, it could be late December, it could be early Jan. Uh, no one really knows right now. So, if you're uh betting on that poly market uh thing, unfortunately, I got no info for you. Um, it's still a coin right now. [snorts] >> Very, very cool. I mean, that that is uh this has been what, like twoish years in the making since you announced this?

>> Yeah. I think like the first so the first uh inkling that I had that I was going to do this right that I was going to like do a new project um and it was funny actually I tried to do it as a like a non because it was going to be just a front end for synthetics right so I was like I don't want to have all of the baggage of like me doing stuff I'm just going to come in and and build this thing get a small team of like two or three people do it as an anon team release it and just see what happens um That was in uh April of 2023.

Um so, you know, we're going we're going I woke up I had a dream and I the dream was like I've gotten this wrong. Uh like synthetics, DeFi, like decentralization and and I woke up from this dream and I was like I'm going to solve this problem a different way. Um and yeah, that was that was you know a long time ago now, two and a half years. >> Yeah. Wow. Well, thanks for spend some time with us. It's uh it's been fun just kind of watching the Infinex patrons get traded on Blur and OpenC and not really have any inkling to sell at all. Just been kind of like, well, I don't know what you guys are doing, but there's something at the end of this tunnel >> and it's probably going to be better than whatever you guys are doing. So, >> um yeah, thank thanks for the full

breakdown. And I'm just honestly stoked to have Andre building Flying Tulip. uh Michael from Curve launching yield basis, you launching in Infinex. There was just a lot of like there was a lot of like, you know, for lack of a better term, crash outs from DeFi summer. Um just for a variety of reasons and it's just good to have, you know, the boys back in town. You know what I mean? >> 100%. Yeah. Feels like Feels like it's uh cranking again. >> Yeah. [snorts] All right, guys. Uh great episode. >> Yeah. Thank you, guys. Nice kid.