Introducing SafeStake ( ETH2 0 stake ) 【 English 】

Transcript

foreign okay and and now I will give day opening remarks I welcome to today's learning sharing meeting with maintain and open source that look that development tutorials on GitHub we hope we can not only give Junior developers an executable and simplest blockchain type learning roadmap but also present Advanced developers with a platform for communication and cooperation today we invited Chris from safe steak to give us a presentation and

also an AMA now let's welcome Grace well good evening everybody I uh I want to say thank you for uh inviting me to give a presentation and tell you guys about safe steak um it's an honor to be here and um uh just to tell you a little bit about safe stake in Paris State uh Paris state is the kind of the dial the overseeing organization uh and safe steak is the project that we'll be talking about today which is a decentralized uh staking infrastructure and protocol and it brings some exciting things to

ethereum staking and East 2.0 and without further ado I think we'll go into the presentation so I'm going to go ahead and share my screen let's see oh give me one second here sorry let's go ahead and share this okay can everybody see my screen

uh yes okay great yes we can see your screen very clearly excellent okay so again uh you know kind of to uh put this a little bit more clearly safe stake um as you can see here is a trust minimized middle layer uh that Fosters the decentralization of each 2.0 staking um what we mean by that is uh with our system The Operators and the people that run it run independent nodes and they don't need to um sort of trust each other in order for the whole system to work so

um it's a it's a very interesting uh system and protocol let's get into a couple of things here um the purpose of this discussion I want to talk about e-staking and some of the risks that go along with it I want to talk about uh Lido and rocketpool because they're very popular right now look at how they handle staking and I know that your community sort of uh you know wanted to to see you know what they're doing versus what we're doing um so I'm going to kind of position it that way and um I'm gonna talk about how safe steak takes staking to the next level uh makes it a more reliable secure and

ultimately flexible way to stay Keith and keeps the ethereum ecosystem if you will in infrastructure decentralized so uh from a high level what is each staking um you know some of you guys are probably real familiar with this some may not be um but uh this is you know ethereum's proof of stake mechanism that replaced mining so instead of the mining mechanism that was in place to produce new blocks we've got our validators in place securing the network signing data transactions and um you know making sure excuse me making

sure that uh you know the network stays secure uh the validators they work by funding uh so the user uh puts in 32 eth they deposit it into the smart contract and uh they can run a validator uh you know they're putting their 32 eth at stake uh hence that term and you know the validators out there getting uh data requests from the beacon chain and and validating those and sending it back and that's producing your new blocks um and coming to consensus in the background

um so when a validator performs its duties correctly and on time the beacon chain sends a small amount of eth to the validator and that is the whole point right uh why why run a validator unless uh there's some reward mechanism in there and that's built in and that is what we're talking about so uh what's going on in the industry because of that is uh you know the merge happened it's complete it is it is working um there's nothing left to prove and the validators are doing their job so uh you know the market is starting to

see that and even before I mean staking was was huge when when I got into staking I don't know there was a couple hundred thousand validators on ethereum network and now there's I think upwards of almost half a million if if not more I haven't checked the latest but it's close um so you know people want to get a piece of this industry and staking services are popping up everywhere um you know letting people deposit their eth and make money and two of the biggest ones out there in uh in the staking pool Arena are Lido and a rocket pool um so you know with all of this

happening excuse me with all of this happening uh how how we see it at Paris State and and the safe stake project is the need for a robust scalable solution um that allows users to safely and reliably stake their eth in a decentralized way that keeps the network decentralized um and why do we need this because currently the risks of staking are just too high for many users um and uh let's let's talk about what some of those risks are so the big thing that comes into play is validators being online

um of course you get your rewards for doing your job correctly if you're a validator but if you're offline or something is faulty and the validator can't respond correctly or on time they're going to get penalized um so these penalties happen in deductions of you know small amounts of eth from the balance of the deposit and you know that's for validators that are staying offline for short periods they miss you know a couple of attestations or things like that there's a small penalty but it's not a big deal they'll come back online and uh they'll start making their money back but if the validator stays offline for

extended periods or acts maliciously does something on the network it shouldn't do uh you know then slashing comes into play and um in that case we're talking about bigger amounts of Youth being taken away from the 32 week balance and can actually be slashed right down to zero so that's a big thing if if you're going to spend the money uh you know put the invest in a validator you want to be sure that you know it's to get slashed down um and just to talk about this quickly we'll get into it a little bit more um but

right now the the instances of slashing mostly have come from operators and other people nodes and and whatnot trying to run a redundant configuration so that their validator is always online um and what they do you know what they've tried is to run it on two different machines run the same uh validator key on two different clients and if they both respond when a call goes out uh the ethereum network you know frowns upon that greatly and uh you know basically slash is the validator for for doing that I'm sorry about that

guys my fingers are uh touching the keys where they shouldn't um so uh so that's a big thing and then security um you know with the current way that things are staked uh you have to have your validator key online and stored somewhere a lot of validators use uh you know AWS Amazon web services or some other Cloud uh service and that key is online and exposed so you know that there that in and of itself can present some security issues so uh you know after taking a look at some of those now that you sort of understand what some of those uh those

risks are uh you know that have been identified and that people are working on uh that that projects like ours or are out there to solve let's take a look at uh the two big big guys out there right now um we'll start with Lido and um essentially lydo is a staking pool um that allows any amount to be staked um so it gets rid of the the 32 East minimum requirement if you will uh that you would normally need to run a validator so they're sort of taking these um these pools of of eth uh that people are staking and their uh sort of

crowdsourcing validators with it um and and nobody has to operate or maintain anything from an infrastructure standpoint or a a technology standpoint so you can be uh you know basically completely zero knowledge about staking and use uh you know a solution like Lido or rocket pool or us um and then that's what we'll get into so um that's what really staking this is our offering is is that ability to do it without having to know how really um so Lido is Dao based um you know meaning um when users deposit their eth it goes

out to some node operators that are members of the Dow um it's a relatively small pool uh so you know that kind of thing comes into play um with regard to how many are actually you know out there operating validators in this case stakers receive staked eth which is in uh erc20 token representing their deposit and any rewards and penalties that they uh that their validator incurs so it's sort of a one-to-one on uh on the if that's deposited you get this St eth token um and then that's a liquid token uh you can sell it and uh you don't need to

wait for the Shanghai update to happen which will release uh validator deposits and allow withdrawals there um and that's in the future not really sure when that's going to happen um and uh you know as a fee for all of this Lido is going to keep 10 of the commissions generated uh from the profits of the validators um so pretty standard stuff there um this is right from Lido's excuse me Lido's website really what their their solution is solving is the uh is the whole Shanghai update issue with uh

sort of validator funds being locked up and inaccessible unmovable until uh that that update happens when you know you could take your 32 weeks out and cash it in if you're running a validator so um this allows staking uh with liquidity essentially uh some of the shortcomings um you know as as we see it's uh it sort of lacks decentralization in the sense that uh as I mentioned the node operators are limited number uh creates kind of a centralized staking pool and if one operator goes offline or does something they shouldn't do

um it ends up affecting a lot of validators so um that's a little bit of an issue uh in addition Solutions right now basically all of them um and this is I'm going to show you how safe stay comes in and sort of solves these things is uh redundancy fault tolerance and enhanced security because we're running on a single node we can't have redundancy or fault tolerance and we talked about um you know the security issues with keys being uh you know exposed and online um so uh you know and then the other thing that was hard to say 100

and maybe you guys actually might know the answer more than I do I'm not sure but you know are they custodial non-custodial semi-custodial meaning are they keeping your keys and you're with withdrawal keys and things and sort of controlling that is it somewhere in the middle or is the user retaining all of that in the background I it was hard for me to find it and um I'm not really sure all right let's take a look at Rocket pool another big solution as you guys know um this uh rocket pool uh you know is more they're saying more of an

infrastructure service and pool um anyone with as little as uh .018 can can stake and uh also does it need to know any Tech and um if you want to stake and run a node which normally would be excuse me 32 weeks to deposit into the contract uh they only require 16 so essentially you're pairing up uh with another user of 16 and creating a validator for the 32.

uh again when you deposit if in a rocket pool contracts uh they're going to give you this token called Arif it's also a liquid staking token representing the deposit of all your earnings you can sell it all that kind of stuff Trade It excuse me it's a non-custodial staking solution uh users do retain full access to their uh their deposit their keys uh both the the private and the withdrawal um features a decentralized network of node operators and uh in this case rocket pool itself doesn't take a cut a validator earnings but the node

operators that are sort of keeping the infrastructure up and running the software and protocol they get commissioned somewhere between five and twenty percent the protocol sets it uh probably based based on their performance or something like that foreign some of the shortcomings here uh really you know it's a little more decentralized so really we're talking about single node kinds of things um redundancy fault tolerance and hand security they they really don't have that because of uh running validators on one node and one node only um let's see here uh let's get into safe

stake uh let's talk about how it is similar but different and how it sort of improves things overall um really what safe stake is is an infrastructure and protocol um still in testing we've got to test net up that is testing all of this functionality but really in the end uh you know what were the concept that we're proving is a secure reliable flexible decentralized way to stake teeth so um you'll see that uh it takes a lot of the goods from from staking pools uh combines this uh

allowing for some flexible more flexibility and uh and because we're going to run on more than one node and we'll talk about that we can enhance uh security and reliability so um safe state does operate as a staking pool like Lido and Rocket pool uh however there's a low barrier to entry um we we have the uh minimum you can stake as little as eight eth and uh also run a node um so remember rocket pool had uh 16 on that um so we bring that down to eight and then uh essentially there's the the pool

in the background that is going to fund the other 24. Eve to create 32 weeks validator um in future versions uh we are going to keep the uh low 80th requirement to stake and run a node but um users will if you want to not run the node and just be part of a crowdsourced validator and earn staking rewards that way we are going to um have that so that sort of combines uh the low barrier of Entry to stay can run a node with uh having a very little

amount of ease to just stake and earn rewards nothing else um in our model uh stakers uh people that are gonna you know deposit each and run a validator they're going to pay a fee to operators they're going to manage those validators on their behalf and um when you deposit into our smart contracts you also receive the state eth token at a one-to-one ratio and again these are fully liquid and you can trade or sell them at any time for their current value oh I'm sorry

and uh sorry Paris State Dao um will collect 10 of all of the validator and operator yields um as a fee uh for using the network and the protocol so again pretty standard stuff there um what we do is you know we're going to introduce things like redundancy fault tolerance and enhanced security via multi-node operation so um really safe stake is the first staking pool to implement what's called DVT and DVT distributed validator technology is exactly that it distributes the

validator over multiple nodes operator nodes um so that uh if one goes offline the others can step in and and respond and we're going to get into this in a little bit our Tech stack uses Hot Stuff consensus some uh excuse me Shamir secret sharing and bft threshold signatures as well as some other things combined um multi-party computation there's a number of things in the background of the tech stack that all come together to do this how does it work essentially safe stake takes the validator key

and splits it into four key shares so as you can see in the diagram here's your key protocol comes in splits those securely encrypts them into four shares and sends each share out to an operator okay the protocol makes sure that three Shares are always required to create a valid data signature and when I say valid valid data signature the signature is equal to that of the original validator key when three shares can come together provide the secret and get the information for the the uh uh the signature

so what does this mean again one operator node can be faulty offline compromised acting in a way it shouldn't and uh the other three operators can step in and will step in sort of automatically and uh take care of the validator duties uh meaning that it won't miss its duties and it won't be penalized so really we're talking about reward maximization here so from a staking standpoint if you want to be sure that your validator is going to be online uh and doesn't miss attestations or or uh even worse a block

proposal um you know you just want to make sure that it's going to be there it's going to be online uh here's a little bit about the architecture and um you know you guys can certainly explore this it's um it's a pretty in-depth diagram that we've got here but yet you know relatively simple um and the architecture makes it so that uh it's a redundant fault tolerance secure environment um really one of the best things is that it's staying true to the original goal of blockchain excuse me blockchain technology which is decentralization

all right let's take a look at further [Music] um we talked about the The Operators responding in the committee uh if one's offline uh the security so let's talk a little bit more about the security the again we talked about the minimum of three key shares being required to produce that signature but the other side of that is that any any one operator in the committee or you know can't ever recreate that signature on their own um so uh that makes it an extremely secure um

solution and uh also they you know our The Operators never have access to any deposit funds you know never have access to keys so it's a completely uh non-custodial solution where we don't we don't have anything The Operators don't have anything Staker retains at all and um you know if one operator in the group decides to do something they shouldn't act maliciously try to double spend do something you know uh something that the the network isn't going to like uh you know it's gonna quickly be uh noticed and you know that guy will be

taken out of the the equation and then the other three are going to run it um so the validator isn't going to get slashed and really what does that mean the investment is protected bottom line so kind of the conclusion to all this sort of to wrap it up um safe steak is gonna offer stakers kind of the best of all worlds that combines you know that flexibility of having very little East uh to stake in as well as the low barrier of Entry to stake and run a node um it's liquid and uh it provides that security and

validator uptime at a very similar cost um so that's that's really what we're talking about um today guys and uh um just want to let you know that the the Dow uh or the peristate Dao we are running a safe stake test net it's called Galileo and we want to add as many validators and operators as we can so that we can take this this concept prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt that it works uh you know and can and can handle the you know a massive number of validators and just uh just run as it's supposed to

so we are encouraging everyone we can who's interested in this to go to this uh this URL here this is our safe state project website and um you can go there and find out how to join how to become part of our test net either as a validator or an operator and become part of the future of e-staking so uh I want to thank you guys um for taking the time to let me you know go through safe stake with you I'm going to kind of leave this fact sheet up here

and uh this sort of has a little bit about our attack it's kind of a kind of a nice overall kind of card about what's good about safe steak and and you know what we're all about what our road map is and um things like that so I think at this point uh take some questions uh did you guys want me to kind of look at the the questions you sent me on the screen okay great yeah did you want to do that you want me

to let you have it or do you want me to do that um both are okay maybe you can do that it will be mostly I guess okay sounds good let me uh let me get out of this presentation well before before I get into those does anyone have any questions about anything I went over in the presentation before kind of moving into uh these these uh these questions we gathered no okay so um

let's take a look at these what kind of staking strategies are available and what are their annualized returns respectively that's a that's kind of a big question um there's a lot of different staking strategies that are available from centralized kinds of uh staking solutions that are things like a coinbase or you know um you know others along that line where we're talking about sort of centralized exchanges that are allowing people to buy and then stake their eth um so those exist

um to more decentralized taking Solutions like the one we're offering to staking pools um where you're you know pooling with other people to run validators so the annualized returns are kind of tough right now to say um if you're running you know and you can always run your own validator too and just stake your teeth that way which is probably the highest return so um probably you know five six percent is is pretty standard right now for uh you know what it's looking like post

merge for If you're sort of running your own staking node in the in the pools I'm not sure that it's that high it's probably you know three and a half four percent maybe on each maybe a little higher in some uh but I think I think that's a good way to to answer that question without um being too specific because those things are still being figured out post merge what are you know how much your validator is going to make and and all that kind of stuff um okay um

now if we're talking let me let me take a step back on that if we're talking about what kind of staking strategies are available with regard to safe stake uh so again you can do with us you can do a an 80 all the way up to 32 weeks deposit you can run your own you can do anything there and then in the future again and that would be a higher return than if you're doing the future which is you know real small amounts of eth and crowdsourced and that type of thing it's going to be probably a little bit a little bit less um okay will it follow ofac standards

um no not necessarily the so and I was Kelly and I were talking about this a little bit before the the presentation but the the concept of Mev and the maximal extractable value that you can get out of a block and block production and the way things are ordered in the block as well as the fees that people have paid in gas and in tips to you know priority fees to get their transaction included this has led to you know what's going on right now with censorship with you know specifically the flashbots relays that

are um following ofac standards and either delaying these transactions or omitting them from the Block uh resulting in censorship so the the thing with safe stake is and why I say no is that we're not committed to anyone ammy V relay uh we use lots of different imev relays when the validators go out looking for Med so the vast majority of them are going to be

you know not following ofac standards but uh you know it's not that some of the validators don't run um uh that client so that's the issue there um but no we are not we are we are anti-censorship in the sense that we want ethereum to be a free network uh blocks included and um not censored based on what relay they go through what if ofac requires safe stake to censor some transactions that is a great question

um we are not block builders so that is um so the the the thing to talk about here is the PBS relays um proposer Builder separators um and the concept of proposer Builder separation so the validator that proposes the block can't build the block uh a block Builder does that uh and that's subbed out if you will um delegate it out uh what's the word I'm looking for outsourced it's outsourced to a block Builder but the issue right now is that

flashbots had owns and runs both Mev really relays and PBS relays so your Builders are still going through some flashbots at least some of the blocks being built and there's where you're where your censorship comes into play also so it isn't really us that would have to censor that it would be Builder and that's what we have to worry about because there's not that many right now and flashbots has a huge percent of the market making it a centralization problems a problem excuse me uh okay what do you think about the

problems that semi-centralization that poses the POS poses to Heath I mean these are some of them um you know the other ones are things like consensus clients um being you know upwards of 60 plus percent of the validator clients that are run out there uh you know there's that there's inferior there's things like you know every time somebody goes to uniswap and makes a transaction we've got inferior you know that's handling it so there's a um there's a centralized thing so you know again what I'm going to do is

send your group an article about or a series of articles that our team has written about how how this happens and how decentralization can be defended through infrastructures like ours and specifically with an infrastructure like ours so I'm not going to dwell on that I know we're a little over time and I appreciate you guys sticking with me how to ensure that the proceeds of staking are released openly and transparently excellent question again we're non-custodial so that's not an issue we never have any ownership of your keys operators have no access to your funds the Dow never has access and the stakers always retain ownership

of all of that and um sort of ensures that that their funds can't be tampered with if you will and what is the composition excuse me composition of Paris State's ecosystem are there any plans for future development um that's a that's a big question also uh our ecosystem really is the is the Dow so our community members a lot like you know your your community that are running nodes that are keeping the safe stake Network up and running um and they're all over the world and they you know

uh it's it's true decentralization so that's really what we're talking about and yes there are many plans for future development with safe stake and continuing to take the protocol into the future uh and just make it bulletproof make it a complete solution so um I'm gonna give these questions also to our team if that's okay with you guys I mean that's my take on it but my team isn't here to support me and give their take and they're um their point of view so if it's okay I'd like to present these questions to the team and get their answers and send them back and let

you guys uh hear from the entire team on some of these if that's all right okay okay all right yes so I'm I'm all set if you guys have any no more questions I just want to say thank you again I hope you enjoyed it I hope it was worth your time I hope you learned some things and um it was a pleasure and I'd love to to do it again if uh if you guys had the need foreign there is no more questions and I want to

ask um is there any questions from tenza meeting uh tunnel Jolly can you tell me are there any other questions from Kansas meeting or uh I think right now there is no question from cancer meeting okay okay now uh uh I have one last question about the uh key issues uh why uh why is this steak decided to uh split the key into four shares rather than uh three or other things like five uh if there are

any conclusion or any any um any uh any reason that's a great question um okay so I'm going to be completely transparent with you I'm not a coder and I don't know all of the answers in the background but I'm going to take a guess and I'm going to pass it along to my team in that there is there is something to do with the uh the need to have you know three out of four operators okay and then I'm sure you can have more but from a cost standpoint for the validator that's

going to run the operator I think what they're going for is the minimum number of operators that uh need to be there from so that the validator isn't paying you know six eight ten operator fees um even though it might be a little bit more secure but I'm going to pass that along to the team that's my guess uh I'm gonna pass it along to my team and find out if I'm correct uh okay thank you yes okay yes yes yeah I'm just I'm just responding to the chat yes over there the 3F plus one you

can go to our websites and look at all of the formulas and things and we're also going to be publishing our get books soon but you can get more of an answer to there on the the formulas and the algorithms okay okay I will I will do it okay I think there are no more questions thank you Chris thank you very much it's a I think it's a big sharing thank you very much now let's wrap up the meeting and later on we will post a recording on the YouTube chat on the YouTube and I will watch a new Link in the telegram thank you thank you so much guys I

appreciate it have a good good rest of your night have a nice day goodbye