Inside the Vitalik Buterin documentary

Transcript

GM, good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where we bring you the best of crypto, so you're always the smartest one at the dinner table. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Friday, April the 18th, and I know, like me, that a lot of y'all are invested in Ethereum. Yeah, it's been a rough few years, but I remain bullish. I remain long-term bullish, especially given the fundamentals, incredibly strong fundamentals when juxtaposed to the lowest sentiment really in crypto. It feels like the FUD is just off the charts. That really actually just continues to make me more

bullish. So today's episode is all about the creator of Ethereum. I'm talking about Vitalic Buterine. Everybody knows him. We're joined today by Zach and Chris, two awardwinning documentary filmmakers who recently released their new film titled Vitalic, an Ethereum story. What's it like to travel with a billionaire like Vitalik who carries all of his stuff in a 40 lit backpack? Uh why did Vitalik create Ethereum? How did he create Ethereum when he was only 19 years old? What happened in Vitalik's early life? What are the stories that led him to this incredible ability to build tech at such a young age? There's

some wild stories from his early childhood that will blow you away. And how does Vitalic see his role in the Ethereum Foundation? And how does he balance the trade-off between decentralized versus centralized decision-making? These are all questions that we jump into in today's episode. As we always say, if you are investing in an asset, it is the best thing to do is one of the best things to do is to understand the team behind that asset. And that's what today's episode is all about. Now, before we jump in, if you are going to be at Consensus or in Toronto or permissionless in New York uh in May or in June, so will I. And the rest of the Milk Road team are going to be at both. So, we've got a meetup, free beer. Come hang out with all the Milk Road community. Hit the link in the show

notes to see details on the meetup and sign up. Today's episode is brought to you by Moonay. Trade crypto fee free, fast, and on your terms. It's also brought to you by Coin Shift, powering top crypto treasuries with their yield varian stable coin CSUSDL. Without further ado, let's jump in and hear from the boys. Zack, Chris, welcome to the Milk Road Show. Great to have you guys today. Let's jump in. Amazing film that you guys have made about possibly the most interesting man in the world. Like I don't know if anybody is more fascinating than Vitalik. I want to start with a very direct question that has been on a lot of people's minds recently and then we'll get into a lot of the stories of the film. Vitalik wasn't at the White House recently when there was the crypto

summit that really stands out in an interesting way and sort of juxtaposes him against a lot of other crypto leaders. Well, in in your view, why wasn't Vitalik at the CryptoSummit and what does that say about him in comparison to other leaders in the crypto space? Yeah, thanks for having us. And I think that gets at this heart of this film, right? Vitalic identifies as a builder and a thinker and a writer and I'm not surprised that he wasn't at the White House. Like that's just not how he sees his role in this space. And I mean the film I mean like you said Vitalik is a fascinating person and story to understand about because at se

a great example perfect example of this at seven years old Vitalik's favorite toy was his computer and Excel specifically and he we were talking to we talked to his dad in the film and his dad pulls out his iPad and he shows us aundpage document that Vitalik made at seven years old that has graphs has descriptions of this world called about bunnies, the magical world of bunnies. And it it's called the encyclopedia of bunnies. A crazy thing for a seven-year-old to create. And at seven years old, Vitalik's already worldbuing, right? Like that's what Vitalik loves to do. He loves to think huge. He loves to bring in philosophy and math and, you know, technology to create a new

paradigm for the world. And so that's where Vitalik's sweet spot is. And it's not surprising, you know, Vitalik's weaknesses and and kind of difficulties is more on the leadership side, more on the like he doesn't like conflict. And so in this film, you get to see that unfold from, you know, 7 years old to 27 years old. To add to that, I think he also he's so committed to decentralization, as a lot of you know. I think that's been a principle of his that's a core value to how and the way in which he's built Ethereum. And I think for him, he doesn't always see his role as as being the one who should be front and center. So yes, he's a a builder and a thinker first and

foremost, but also he's been trying to design the system around him to to reflect those values. And I think that comes with a lot of challenges and and we've seen it and we follow it over a couple years in the film of those challenges that come up when you do not have that centralized leader at the center of Ethereum. Um, it can be a messier process doing something like the merge that we follow throughout the film of what it's like to actually coordinate across hundreds of developers in an ecosystem to to implement something as massive as the merge and upgrading Ethereum to be, you know, 99% more energy efficient. These are not easy tasks to take on. They're hard enough even if you did have a Mark Zuckerberg

type leader in the C in a centralized exchange. you know, this is this is something even more challenging. And so, yes, I I'm not surprised personally, and it's part of, you know, this is part of what makes Vitalik really interesting to us. Yeah, there's there's so much to unpack here, and I think for all of our listeners, talking about Ethereum right now is tough because Ethereum has had a, you know, basically five years of of being flat when a lot of other cryptos have have had quite a rise. Now, obviously, everything's back down again. There's still a a lot of our listeners are still going to believe long-term in Ethereum and for a lot of good reasons.

I still believe long-term in Ethereum. I am still heavily invested in it as is a lot of the Milk Road team and a lot of other wellrespected. I'm definitely not the only one out there and you know it's the second largest market cap in crypto. What's so interesting about what you guys and this conversation we're gonna have today is you spent so much time with him and yeah, I've never I've never spent time with him, never met him, and he's so fascinating. What's it like to hang out with a billionaire like Vitalik who's not your typical billionaire at all, I would assume. Okay. Well, Metallica is the perfect documentary subject because he is so allergic to the spotlight. So, it makes him so authentic, but it's also very difficult

to film with someone who is so allergic to the spotlight. So, you know, we made this film in a really cool way. We raised almost $2 million from an NFT crowdfund in 2021 that allowed us basically the resources to follow Vitalic all around the world. So, we would get a call, you know, and be like, "Hey, meet me in Ukraine. Hey, meet me in Montenegro at this pop-up city that I'm about to create." You know, like these different things. And we would literally just have to like find our crew, get on a plane, and go meet up with Vitalik, who quite literally lives out of a 40 liter backpack, truly gets like $5 haircuts in Chinatown. Like, like these stories are real. These stories are real. I mean, it's just like

I thought it was just like this narrative that was being fabricated by this the Ethereum community, but like there's actually like you actually in the film get to see so much more of that. You get to see what's in his backpack, you know, like he'll like pull out a metal Steve Waznjak like business card or like he'll have like, you know, like just random things like all or like Chibau pants like he just that's so vital. I don't know. It was it was really cool to be able to spend that time for sure. Let's be honest, everything in crypto comes with fees. But here's a nice surprise. Moon Balance doesn't take a cut. You heard that right. No Moonay fees when you buy or sell crypto with your Moonay balance.

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interesting is understanding the motivations of somebody and their like what makes them tick like their why for existing. And I feel like Vitalik seems to have and if you watch the film you get this a very strong why like he is very purposeful. He's very intentional which is what allows him to be so authentic as you said Zach so unique. Take us back give us a little bit of the the upbringing of from what you guys learned through this film. What makes Vitalik who he is? And I know you told a little bit about the the bunny encyclopedia story, but talk to us a little bit more about the initial sort of what you thought would stood out as the the the monumental moments in his early life. Yeah, I mean there there are so many, but you know, maybe I'll start

with one where we talked we spent a lot of time with his dad and his and his family and his dad talked us both his parents talked to us about you know their decision to leave Russia when Putin was starting to come into power and go to Canada. um and their fear of what was happening within Russia at that time of this centralized authoritarian regime. Um and I think you know looking back at again Vitalik was around six or seven at the time and and that's left a very lasting impression on him and his value system. So I think it is why he's so committed or part of why he's so committed to decentralization and you know has really informed some of those those values for him. But you know, I think what's been fun about the film is

we've, you know, we've been filming for a couple years with Vitalik and in many ways the last few years have been these very formative ones for him where he's really grown up. I mean, he's been forced into the spotlight of this as a sort of deacto leader of a trillion dollar industry. Um, and he's had to wrestle with what his role is in that, how he speaks up uh or doesn't. you know, he's had a lot of challenges with some of the more overt uh gambling behavior around, you know, board ape yach club that obviously people know about. And he had a lot of he ended up becoming very vocal around Ukraine and the war with Russia to be able to use his platform and his voice to try to

have crypto have a positive impact on the war in Ukraine. And I think, you know, these key moments that we've sort of followed throughout the film allow you a lens to understand his values over the la, you know, as he's grown up. I mean, he created Ethereum at 19, right? You know, he was he was a kid and and watching this growth and watching him form those values is is what's super entertaining throughout the film and and really has been so fascinating for us. How old is he now? Oh man, it's a great question. He's about to turn 30 or if not, he just turned 30. 30. Jeez. And he's still only he's not even 30 yet or he just turned 30. Like he's still so young. Oh my gosh. Uh you you brought up um Ukraine. I want to touch on that

because that's also a great part of the film that really dives into a I mean we don't we don't look for better or worse. We don't highlight a lot of the the use cases of crypto. I mean, even you guys being able to make this film because you raised $2 million using NFTTS, which look, NFTs is a a word that nobody likes to hear in investing because we all got burned in the last four years. But, uh, like even that, like crowdsourcing, being able to make a film as a result of crypto and raise money from all around the world, like those are those are big deals. But let's let's talk about Ukraine because Ethereum allowed some things to happen when the Ukraine war Russia war broke out that quite frankly

probably could not have happened if it wasn't for Ethereum and for blockchain. Tell us a little bit about that story. Yeah, I mean this is something that's really personal especially for Vitalik. Um Vitalik has Ukrainian ancestry. his you know he grew up in Russia left the country when Putin took power and it also came at a time when Vitalik was questioning like what is the real world value of of Ethereum like what is the real use cases here that affects people because Vitalik is a tech optimist right Vitalik believes that when you know crypto is used well it creates real value in people's lives and so you know Vitalik really wanted to support Ukrainians as soon as the war broke out

and he used his voice in a way that he's not usually very political. He like he really advocated to support Ukraine and the the crypto community, not just Ethereum, but the whole crypto community really rallied immediately when Ukraine was invaded. And in those first hours, this became really clear to me when I was with Vitalic in Ukraine, hearing from the, you know, the vice prime minister of Ukraine. He was describing that when the banking system was in chaos in Ukraine, it was they relied on crypto to get funds to the front to get funds to charities to get you know over $130 million was raised in the first hours of the invasion and you know

without crypto that wouldn't have been possible. While the world was kind of thinking about how to respond and figuring out how to get resources there, like the crypto community immediately responded and according to Ukrainian officials saved thousands of lives in the military and civilians and and seeing Vitalik like take that in in Ukraine in Kiev in a bomb bunker, this hackathon bomb bunker that you see in the film is a really emotional moment, right? Like for someone like Vitalik who invented this, you know, Ethereum, who is this worldbuilder in the abstract, finally gets to see this thing being used for good is pretty important, I think, for Vitalic. You know, really

believing and having continuing to have energy to put into this space. There can be such a a disconnect that happens between investors and the assets that they hold uh which is not necessarily a good thing. uh you should have strong conviction and really believe in your assets and like do your research, but you can really get that disconnect and you can you can forget why it was created and you can forget the people behind it. And Vitalik still, you know, as you guys said, whether he likes it or not, he still really holds this crown and wears this crown of all eyeballs on him. And not just for Ethereum, like even for crypto in general. He is, you know, he's been on the cover of time,

like he's been he he came in at a time he was at an age where he just for better or worse, he he got the spotlight and and it's sort of it's forced him to to figure out how to handle that. I know that he speaks and and Chris, you said one of your favorite quotes of his before we recorded from the movie was about his views on speculation versus gambling and the financial incentive of crypto. Let's just chat a little bit. Can you remind us of what that quote is? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, we did so many interviews and conversations with Vitalik and we obviously asked so much about investing or about the financial side and not surprisingly he often just wanted to talk more about

things that he was building or different layer you know layer two protocols that he was designing or solutions to problems that he saw within the ecosystem. Um but you know when we would push him on questions around investing or the financial side you know he did have a great quote that we use in the middle of the film where he says look you know financial incentive is like a fire. You can use it to keep yourself warm or you can use it to burn your house down. Um you know and at the time he was really reflecting on how people what he's done with Ethereum and and crypto in general is people are empowered to use it how they want.

Right. And it's a it is a structure in that way. And some people decide to use it for things that might burn their house down or have negative real negative consequences on the world or on themselves and their own their own uh investments or or stability. And some may use it for a use case like we're talking about here with Ukraine that's that's truly helping people. And I think that's the beauty and the curse of what happens when you empower people with a system like this. Meet CSUSDL. The stable coin built for institutions and Dows. Don't just hold basic stable coins. Earn yield all without compromising security. Backed by regulated real world assets and secured with institutional grade risk management

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like a centralized company, right? You know, now you have Vitalic trying to build a decentralized company, which quite frankly, we don't really have many good examples or playbooks of how to do it. So, he's kind of like sailing the ship and, you know, building it at the same time. And you also have this market that's sitting out there saying, "Hey, all we care about is number go up, right? And who cares what the tech is and who cares what the road map is and blobs and sharding and L2s like they don't care about all of that language.

So it's it it is a I don't envy the position he how do you guys find that he like how does he handle all this? Is he quite a calm person? Like he must have throughout the film, I'm sure you saw him on days that were stressful and challenging and you know things happen in his in his life. Like is he is he able to manage it all? Yeah. I mean Vitalik will tell you this himself. I mean I I'd say like the majority of Vitalik's time it doesn't matter if you're on a train to Ukraine is him thinking about crypto. And then in the time that he's not thinking about crypto, he's either going for a run or playing chess. Like, and you see chess a lot in the film, but like that is what

Vitalik's doing. And I think those moments of like playing chess or going for a run are like so critical in in him staying staying sane in all of this. And yeah, there were really stressful times. I mean especially in these moments and you see in the film you know there is a a bit of a crypto winter like those there's so much criticism levied at Vitalik and I think in part of him growing up is realizing that like you know that's part of a cycle like it's going to change and he fully believes that you know that that the price will go up again. So he after being being through many crypto winters, I think Vitalik has been able to figure out how to live through that. And those are the

difficult times like you said, but in some ways they're also the times where a lot of the like fluff is stripped out and a lot of the people can get down and and build things. I mean, you know, that's NFTTS, uh, DeFi, like those all came out of crypto winters. Like, you know, it's it's an interesting moment for him. It's almost like things are a little quieter and he can Oh, I'm sure he prefers like the the winters. He prefers the bare markets. Most builders do. Most builders hate bull markets, right? Because and and and and let's be real, there is no other industry in the world where you as a founder also have shareholders immediately who yell at you all and and not only they not only are

they shareholders, they're internet dgen shareholders, right? like they are they're not like your like you know your dad who's like oh you know I don't use the internet or anything like that. They're like going to like meme the out of your Twitter and make you feel like crap, right? So like I I don't you know it's I don't envy any crypto founder that also has launched a token let alone the biggest like like Vitalic. Yeah. We we interview uh Tim O'Reilly in the film who's you know famous for actually coining the term you know web 2.0 know and and you know he talks a lot about like any of these technological markets what happens is you get all of this money pouring in and a lot of hype to figure out what really matters right

and you're you're searching you're you're trying a lot of things and then it's in these bare market moments when everything gets stripped away that you then see what is lasting and you know I think crypto is going through those cycles as any new technology does and AI does is doing the same thing. You know, we we see it with these these hype cycle markets and hopefully at the end of the day, the stuff that we're left with is what matters. And you go back to the, you know, do boom and bust and the and 90 plus% of those companies didn't make it. But what lasted was something truly beautiful that revolutionized the world.

And you know, you just never really know until you you strip away some of that noise. And I think I think that perspective in the film from people like Tim O'Reilly or Vitalic who've been through a lot of these cycles I think is helpful for any investor listening too who wants to think about the long term. A lot of crypto investors are very young as well and like this is a long-term you know you are investing for the long term whether or not you you want but you don't want to admit that though. You don't want to admit that because you want the money now, right? Like you want it now, you know? And all you see on social media is some influencer saying, you know, look at me. I got a Lambo. I made $100,000, right? And you think that it's easy and

it's not. It's obviously it's actually incredibly hard. We're all prone to the FOMO. Like that's real. Like no no judgment here at all. We've all gone into memecoins. But it is. Yeah. I mean, I think when it comes down to something like Ethereum, you know, this is this is just the beginning in some ways. Like Yeah. Talk a little bit about Vitalik's role within Ethereum. Like when you guys are seeing him, it's really tough to understand like what he I mean, a I feel like he's a robot. Like I actually question if he is human. I don't know if you guys I mean you guys give me your take. Wait.

Vitalik is the funniest person that we have time with. So I like he is if you spend time with him he's not a robot. He's we had a hilarious time spending you know hanging out with Vitalik and and getting to make this film and um just seeing the little connections that his mind makes with the world around you. You know it's a privilege to have gotten to to see how somebody else's mind works in that way because it is a bit different. Yeah. I mean, in showing Vitalik this film, right, scariest moment in any doc filmmaker's life is when you show the subject of your film, the participant of your film, like the film. But like Vitalik's favorite moments are like when he's making breakfast in the film or talking about tea. I mean, Vitalik's mind works in

wild ways. Like he'll give you a whole lesson about like the history of the word tea versus chai. Like chai with it like just how does he know that, you know? Like that's the opening of the film, right? So it's Yeah, he has a great sense of humor. Yeah. Another great moment. We're walking around a garden with him and and you know it's ask him a simple question like you know how are you feeling or what are you thinking about and he goes off well you know photosynthesis is actually the process where you see you know it goes off on a whole beautiful tangent that just shows the the yeah the capacity that his mind has for for thinking and world building and understanding systems. It's it's incredible. It's not where my mind is never on photosynthesis. I don't know about you

guys, but that's not a topic my mind goes to. I think honestly Vitalik probably thinks we're really dumb because we would ask these questions over and over again to try to synthesize these big concepts down to to a digestible narrative and an entertaining film, right? Like we're filmmakers. This film is fun. It's entertaining. It's thoughtprovoking. Like it's a journey to go on. It's not a podcast. And I think we had to always something and hopefully something that you can send to your mom that she would actually understand, right? Yeah. Like that's the goal of this film is to be on Apple, be on Prime, like it's something that that the rest of the world can finally kind of engage with because I don't think that's happened yet with the crypto world.

Yeah. So, right before you know you go home for Thanksgiving or something and you need to tell your family what what you're doing and what you invest in, uh this would be a great film just to send in advance. That's right. Before you get home and it'll it'll help uh assuage some of the questions that'll come around the, you know, the family dinner table. Well, and and it's and it's a great point because I do think this film is for everybody. It's not just for for crypto people. I also think this film is is very entertaining. It is not a It's not a typical like educationalbased podcast. It's a entertaining film. You guys did a fantastic job making it. And we really are in a position where the biggest one of the biggest I mean there's a lot of issues in crypto. Um there's a lot of great things too. I say

that as if it's all doom and gloom. But one of the biggest issues is marketing of crypto. Mark like crypto has a horrible reputation outside of crypto. It is still seen as a scam. It is still seen very poorly by most because that's what the media likes to tell. It's, you know, great clickbait, right? This person lost millions of dollars is way more exciting than this this helped Ukraine raise money. Unfortunately, it's just the truth, right? You guys are in media, you understand. So, it certainly is is a film for everybody, which which is really we need that. So, I'm Yeah, shout out to you guys uh for making making it. I want to go back for a second. you mentioned uh tomorrow's episode that we're putting out tomorrow

is an episode that is called I don't remember the exact title but it's something like 99% of crypto is trash and how do you find the 1% because it is true right it is true like I'm in crypto every day I've been working it full-time for five years and I can confidently say that that it is mostly garbage it's mostly absolute garbage that is very challenging to work and invest in a space that has so much garbage. And the only reason it has so much garbage is because it is so easy to be a grifter in this space. It's very easy to come in and capitalize on it and monetize trash basically through memecoins or through whatever. There's many different ways to

do it. You don't even need to be a scammer necessarily to do it. You can do it with without even trying without being like complete absolute fraud, right? So, it's it's a challenging challenging space to be in for sure. And that's why the hopefully the film is just refreshing to watch. Yeah. Too, you know, uh it's a different side of, you know, that 1% that you were Yeah. I think, you know, we're not we're not here to like market crypto, but I think ultimately we're also here not to like tell the same story that's been told a million times. Like I think what's refreshing is that there are people that really believe in the utility of crypto and like see that in in the real world in Argentina in in Ukraine in all these places where like you know as an

American is actually quite it's much harder to understand the real value of this stuff. But when you live in a society where like truly the government doesn't work or you're in a war like it becomes much more relevant or much more apparent like why you'd be using this thing. Um, and when you're, you know, so yeah, I think hopefully you can see that a little bit a little bit in the film. Um, yeah, on my team we have people in Argentina and in Russia who we I mean the the the one in Russia, we legitimately can't could not pay her anymore once the sanctions came on if it wasn't for crypto. We literally couldn't pay her money, right? like, you know, and then the ones in Argentina, they're

so happy that we can pay them in crypto because if I paid them in Argentinian pesos, it's inflating at like 50% a month or something like that. So, you know, and as you said, it is I think a lot of a lot of the the real use cases of crypto. I mean, the biggest one so far being stable coins. That's the non-speculative use cases are not so relevant to the developed world. And so, it's harder for the developed world to get that. Uh, okay. Before we wrap, I want to give you guys one last chance to share any any stories that we missed or any anything that stood out in the in the making of this film. Oh, actually, you know what? The one question I did want to ask was, did you see him interact with other Ethereum leaders?

Because that is one part that I think our audience would be very interested is like Ethereum. There's this constant comparison that is made in our in crypto between Ethereum and Salana, right? Like they're the two. And Salana was very much built as a startup, right? Much more centralized type of startup, centralized vision, centralized power. They are slowly decentralizing whereas Ethereum took the opposite approach, decentralization first, fully decentralized. And so it's very you can you can very easily compare them. recently, which I know you haven't been spending time with Vitalik necessarily recently, but recently the big news and the big talk has been Ethereum's leadership and who is who is the leader and there's been a change in leadership

and blah blah blah, but I'm just curious, did you get any insight to how what role it sees himself playing in the Ethereum Foundation or others and how he thinks about leadership? Yeah, I mean actually Shawei who is one of the leaders of the Foundation now is in the film in the background. You'll see her in there. So, uh, you can check that out. Yeah, I mean, we spent time with a lot of different leaders. We had like 300 hours of footage. It's really hard to shrink that down to 90 minutes. A lot of stuff got lost, but we actually made five short films. So, if you go to Ethereumfilm.xyz, you can watch a film on Uniswap. You can watch a film on Gitcoin. You can watch a film on on the Constitution Dow. Like all these moments that are like so fascinating. A lot of

the kind of like big leaders in the space speak in those interviews. So you can you can actually have a bit of a more of a sense of who else is really influential in the in the space for sure. Final things. I mean I think we just hope you'll watch the film, let it speak for itself, come to your own conclusions about what you make of it, what you make of Vitalic. And I think we need to understand these the creators and the leaders behind this technology, you know, to understand where it's going in the future, what the positive and negative consequences will be and where we're going to put our money. I mean, I know again so many of you are investors.

Like, we got to ask the questions and be be curious and um I think you'll be, you know, you'll be a better investor after you watch the film. Um so, check it out. Apple Prime, it's all over the place. You can find it uh find it online. Apple Prime are the two best platforms to go to watch. Apple Prime and then certain international territories. Vimeo on demand, but if you just go to Ethereum.xyz, you'll see all the links. Awesome. We'll link to it in the show notes as well. Zack, Chris, thank you so much for joining us today and and truly shout out to you guys from the whole crypto community for making this film and spending years of your life making it. Although I am kind of jealous that you got to hang out with Vitalic so much. Not a bad gig, right? Not a bad

gig at all. A few years off our lives, but we're we're better. We're better for it. Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for listening in everybody. Have yourselves a wicked awesome day. Thanks for listening to today's episode, y'all. Really appreciate your time. Before I let you go, if you are doing any trading over the Easter long weekend, which I know you might have some time, you might be doing some swaps, you might be rebalancing your portfolio, maybe moving out of some assets and moving in some different assets, especially as the macro conditions are changing. Well, if you are doing that, please check out Milk Road Swap. Give it a chance. If you haven't used Milk Road Swap, I highly recommend. It is our decks which we built on top of cow protocol on Ethereum and then Radium over on Salana. It's got

some of the lowest fees in the space. Why? Because we're not we didn't build this to take money off it. We built this to offer a great product because we know how difficult swapping can be and how a lot of the other players out there, especially the centralized one, take really big fees. So, I really recommend you're not trading there. Check out Melro Swap. If you have any questions, let us know. Link is in the show notes. Have yourselves a wicked awesome weekend, y'all. Thanks for listening in. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free 5-minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh. And if you're willing to step up your crypto

investing game, we're going to also leave a link for Milk Road Pro. You get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying. This is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto. One final note, this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice. Investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome