Improving Interoperability through Hybrid Rollups / Ming Guo

Transcript

now let me begin all right hello everyone uh how do you do today [Applause] um so today I'm going to give a talk uh improving interoperability through hybrid roll up and this is inspired actually by the city of Prague so let's begin a little bit about me so my name is goming so ming is my first name although in my own language it's the second name

although we don't call it like that so I was born in northern China uh but I spent my childhood in a city called Chengdu so the picture here is actually I went back a couple years to visit my childhood place and this is a natural habitat for giant pandas and there was there were actually a couple pandas but there but when I took a picture they just uh height so I'm the chief scientist of metis a smart layer 2 solution provider my Twitter handle is dark economy this is a construct that I promote for

decentralized economy doc stands for DAC decentralized autonomous con community and it is a construct for a sustainable decentralized economy which is something I care very much and I think it's at the heart of blockchain the ethereum crypto every everything so that's something I'm very passionate about all right I'm here to talk about layer 2 technology that is something I do and it is the technology we also develop at the

meetings so Roll-Ups uh there's just many roll-up projects spring up every day so do we have too many of them and the question is actually a different one for the sake of adoption because this is a point of view of Developers and the end users doesn't see it as we do because ideally they don't see Roll-Ups they don't see Layer Two and for that matter they shouldn't even see ethereum

it's like when you're using the internet right the cell phone do you how many times do you think of tcpip or CDMA so it is time for us to think from a product View I know that develop roll-up builders where at the bottom there's are yearly couple layers between us and the end user there are middleware developers and app Developers and they're the ones who have to deal with all this chaos so to make things easier we should

think of The Middle where developers and app Developers what do they see uh what do they think when dealing with users I think a inspiration that I by visiting this great city is think of a city right the city is a perfect unit between function and Community city was built to merge different sometimes competing communities right for cities there's never a problem of compatibility that's something prevalent in software

development but cities think in a different way cities got comedy people people come together to a city to live in harmony not to live in the environment where they have uh disagreement and conflict right there are conflicts but they resolve them by living together so what can we learn from a city from a software developer or like role of a developer's point of view

this is uh important especially for roll up because we're a decentralized software ecosystem it's different than traditional software development um the key word here is uh internal operability which means that uh different functions work together you can switch out Parts you can shift them and they just work like a city right a city has many parts many districts and people can just go to different parts of the city different shops different places and that's how a city

thrives and how it functions so we can definitely take a page from house City it's our plan in the first place and City Planning and software development have many similarities for example zoning right so software usually divided the function blocks and connecting them with circuits and City connect different zones different districts with roads waterways so there's a similarity there and we can probably take a page in in try to fit everything together

in the interoperable way so what are the problems facing roll up design and what we can learn from City Planning so let's see some of the criteria I call them the The Matrix so in a city space right there's a universal these using version factors cost time and task and in roll-up space yeah we're also being constrained by these factors so for cost in the city there's living right living cost is a major issue when people are living in the city if you it

would be to any uh big cities you know right some parts are expensive um so some parts are cheaper but you know further away from where you work right also time right for you to commute in the city uh sometimes you live uh cheaper but in a in a further place and also task tasks are the the life that you live right for work for leisure those are important because they live in the city not just to stand idle right you do things you complete tasks and it's the same for uh roll-up space as well so the cost is of course

mostly transaction fees time we have important ones confirmation time finality those outside of role of space you know don't really understand what they are but they're important for you to design the software and tasks we have uh very distinct but important categories for example withdraw right we withdraw some funds and also most most of the uh tasks that are not these type deposits but they're also important so I'll talk about it now we come to uh what I'm here to talk

about internal probability in action this is what we call hybrid roll up creates the best of all Worlds by Worlds I mean optimistic roll up and they can roll up they have different characteristics which are important for software infrastructure developers middleware developers and app Developers but what we should do is that we Shield users from all this view right they shouldn't be able to uh tell what role of they're using if they have to know that that's a failed design

so hybrid roll-up marries Optimus to roll up and ziki roll up through interoperability design and hybrid Roll Up is a result of a careful product Centric design uh because otherwise we could just use two right if we feel like a hybrid roll up we can use hyper real love otherwise ziki roll up so hybrid lab is a product Centric view design which is important as we have so many solutions out there so hybrid roll-up serves diverse users operating Harmony like a city of conflicting user cases just like

a functional city right a booming sometimes chaotic but prospers functioning City so we continue uh doing the music what we can learn from City Planning so the challenges in this space are the roll-up space I mean what are the challenges so optimistic roll up have this seven day fraud proof window this is enough for now but consider right right now we're probably in the very bearish very down Market

consider in three or six months right we have the coming boom of layer two right Layer Two boom uh roll up boom so uh maybe the tvl would triple you know uh double triple you know and it will become you know so significant it's worse a major attack on ethereum right sometimes you think this is um unthinkable but you know when the stakes are high you know anything is possible so in that situation the seven day fraud proof window might not be enough so certain users so so here's this is

why it's important you know we talk about planning so first certain category of users uh they actually don't care too much about the uh fraud proof seven-day window right because they are not the withdrawal kind of users right those are the deposit type probably two Banks you know or to private businesses right they want to deposit a large sum of crypto and um they think oh seven day you know this amount of money will attract uh attackers right they want to spill all fund so they want you know longer uh fraud-proof window

right they they don't you know because they're depositing right they don't have urgency to use it so they can tolerate the longer ones they want security so can you provide a 30-day 14 or 30 day fraud proof window right I bet most of people think of optimistic uh they really ignored this uh small but significant use case because those actually involve a large amount of funds all right so this is uh some use case challenge for optimistic roll up so we have many uh ziki evam Solutions um

and uh evm is uh constantly evolving so there's a evm's stability problem right the circuits you developed for one version of evm might not be compatible with a version three days from today so it's a bit exaggerated but uh you know you know you know what I mean so unlike other mature VM right for example like the Java um evm changes are very frequent and that make zke evm uh very hard to maintain so those are the challenges so how can

we learn from a city planning point of view to solve those problems right so we have to adopt a mitigation strategy as for optimism roll up we designed in our project the Middle East team what we call ziki mips that enabled a hybrid roll up that we can provide a much longer window and this is not by Glue SDK roll up with optimix roll up it has to be designed carefully like you know like planning a city like when Romans develop a city right Roman studies are

usually developed from Roman garrisons so their functions are already pre uh pre-design and plea pre-planned and based on this initial setup and you know city was developed this way so this is how you know all these big cities started um okay so for Z key rollup uh to solve the evm stability problem uh MIP we adopted the mips instruction set so this is a very stable instruction set it's not like the evm also they set them different planes of software

Hardware stack all EVMS are VMS they're software stack and mips actually are CPU instruction sets so they're much lower much stable all right so so how does hybrid real love work in the city planning kind of way not just kind of roll them together in an arbitrary way so we basically embed a ZK solution ZK mips inside and optimistic roll up so this is still Stars so when you use the hybrid roll up it still start us a

optimistic roll up right so transactions according to the use case uh will go at first Optimus way so there will be a roll up to uh layer one right as as was just a Sim just a pure optimistic roll up but most of the use cases that fall in the middle right they they want faster withdrawal and they don't want to pay much a lot of gas those can probably be uh uh utilized be solved by uh ZK solution Z key role of solution in our case is

zika mips these users will want low gas fee and also a moderate well you know moderate uh confirmation and finality time those are not those we say they're they're instant but they're actually not instant you know sometimes takes an hour or a half depending on your Hardware right so this uh suits certain uh use users and for the remember the the deposit users that we uh mentioned I mentioned earlier those can actually be accommodated by the rest of the optimistic uh route

um they can we can give them 15 30 days of a frog proof window so so this is uh the hybrid roll up that suits a lot of users a broad spectrum of users and from product point of view most of the app developers middleware developers don't need to think which roll up to pick to use right they just pick hybrid Lop because hybrid roll up by careful planning and Design solve the problem that different Spectrum user face okay I guess the that's my talk

right any questions thank you okay oh it moves yeah but this is this is uh this is a little bit about what I mentioned the ZK mips um so ZK Maps is our ZK roll-up solution is very unique um that basically the devs you don't need to know anything about ZK so you know um that that's uh you know you can't Dodge bullets but we do it for you right I'm telling you when we're ready you won't have to so stay tuned for ZK mips see you guys in Paris are there any questions

[Music] if not then thank you again all right thank you enjoy the ceremony in Studio One [Music] foreign