Hyperliquid, Crypto AI, Cycle Dynamics, and Optimal Exits | 0xSmac, Tervo & Tolks

Transcript

there's a bunch of guys who invest in copycats that just look Juiced up and this is why you have so many l2s this is why you have so many prediction markets this is why you have so many memec coin launchpads this is why you have so many AI tokens they all do the same thing and everybody would be better off they were all on the same pirate ship but instead a lot of people want to sell their own dinghy I have no desire to ever sail my own dingy into a sea full of pirate ships it doesn't make any sense you're not going to win chaos Labs the leading onchain risk management firm recently launched its new flagship Oracle product Edge Edge delivers integrated High Precision risk and price data for any application with the market follow and

reach out to chaos Labs on X to learn more what's up guys just want to tell you a little bit more about fuel labs and their new ethereum L2 fuel ignition so fuel Labs is launching fuel ignition a high performance e L2 powered by the fuel VM with the launch of ignition the team is also launching phase two for their fuel points program to reward users and promot make sure to check out fuel. Network to learn more nothing said on ZX research is a recommendation to buy or sell Securities or tokens this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions not Financial advice pachio Ryan and our guests May hold positions in the companies funds or projects discussed what's up guys welcome back to another episode of zerox

research today I'm joined by smack who's a partner at compound VC and turo and talks from page one um to talk about potentially the best week of my life what's going on guys how are you all doing welcome to the show baby welcome to the show doing good doing good thanks for having me yeah wonderful wonderful turbo you you gave an intro last time you were on but smack I do you want to give a little background on yourself on compound VC and how you got into the space yeah sure um I'll try to keep it short uh so I got a into I had like a trfi background structur credit trading um and a just a roommate of mine traded foreign exchange and so like found digital currencies through him he moved

to Hong Kong I was like damn that's pretty intense like I should spend more time on this stuff uh got crypto pilled incidentally by eth like smart contract stuff and then uh yeah have been around crypto since 2015 um was a lurker on Twitter Co happened started tweeting some of the things I thought at some point uh Mike from compound and I started talking about uh yeah random crypto stuff because they were doing that and they were doing a bunch of other Jeep Tech stuff and so uh we were like hey does it make sense for uh me to kind of like run a bunch of the crypto investing there uh just because he was

spending more time on other things and still found it interesting so um pretty uh pretty yeah accidentally fell backwards into crypto and then accidentally fell backwards into Venture so uh joined a couple years ago and yeah we do a bunch of deep Tech stuff I spend probably 95% of my time on crypto so uh yeah it's a bit about hopefully a quick tldr that it's perfect I think you're the you have the most experience in crypto here out of everybody else I'm the crypto Boomer when did you get on chain smack um yeah year probably like I bought I'm trying to think probably I mean definitely 16 maybe 16 17 I think

Boomer yeah I lost so much money in a lot of the OG uh yeah I was one of like the 10 people who used auger W oh man before before it turned into uh like assassination markets and now we have ply Market full circle yeah exactly yeah not even familiar with that lore yeah it was it was like the OG prediction Market thing and then uh yeah it got a little dark I did not know it had assassination Market they they had to shut that down quick but yeah that's uh it's funny just

that you brought that up cuz I mean I'm a known not poly Market hater on here just I saw you tweets this weekend smack about the open ENT just going down I was just not hating at all I love what they built it was amazing attention on the space and everything but I will definitely be watching the volumes and and oi over the next you know couple of weeks now that we have some calm yeah I thought that was like the poly Market stuff is cool I think prediction markets are really interesting but I just don't I I don't know I struggle to see uh yeah how you maintain adoption without some like different uh product or like mode of getting people to engage regularly with

it um but yeah whether that's like designed as some type of news feed or like I don't I don't know what it looks like but yeah I'll be I'll be curious to watch that for sure yeah I agree if we want to go off on a little poly Market here to start I tweeted what six days ago the token sector for prediction markets is still wide open while it's Undisputed greatest buoy meets expiry next time activity systemically spikes will it be on polygon I'd take the field will Innovation to maintain Interest come from the largest player on polygon we'll see I think there's a lot that can be done with prediction markets I've talked to my friend happy at happy substack really good brain about

different things that could be done to proliferate interest and it's really like I see it in like five years when you're watching like the League of Legends nerd tournament or satar is watching uh you know Counterstrike yeah CS:GO World Tour like there are going to be lines right next to the video yeah and it's going to be sold as prediction Market because that's what's legal see that's what I think as well but the volume that is that is like influencer or like gaming related is so right yeah and it's and that that too is

like they because you could put prediction markets on Twitch streams on Tim the tatman playing Call of Duty how many kills is he gonna get in this match of what's it called I don't I don't know um and it's going to be really interesting just because like we've already seen cases of lines that are very obvious viously manipulatable you know and it's like Tim the tatman playing Call of Duty on stream like we're going to we're going to get in some really interesting water yeah I think that's true I I I kind of agree with both of your guys view on like what that looks like in the future

the thing that I like I don't know if you read or have seen like adjacent news which is something that uh yeah they're dope yeah what's it Nate I think his name is or o yeah and so adjacent news shout out them they're a prediction Market aggregator they do a bunch of work in that stuff really good stuff yeah it just feels like that at least to me like okay what do people do every day they like they don't they don't go to poly Market to bet they not everybody but like is there is there a way you can capture like a larger audience who does something every day whether that's like read the news like a boomer or do something else like how do you how do you get these things in front of people in their like

everyday activities easier right right and I see it taking you know disguising itself basically it's not going to tell you welcome to the prediction Market it's not going to tell you welcome to the gambling book it's GNA ask you something very normal and you're going to answer very normally yeah I I agree with that Vision it's more yeah about reducing the friction and having it just in the normal flow of users um go ahead goe no you know who kind of does this adri right there drift um like they have bet and I assume they're going to implement

blinks into it um and try and launch it into whatever like Twitter or something I agree with you there but I think they'll make it as easy as possible yeah and it's really like it aligns with the financial noism Type Beat Just because I mean dude like I was at a show on I was at a show on Friday night and I'm standing next to my buddy and he looks at me and they're like the like dude we got to get some bets up and they're just like firing like $25 lines on like B on like college football or basketball games looks to me you go you gamble I said on Sports yeah it it's the drift like bet like what you said Bach I mean integrating that with blinks like directly to Twitter like stuff like that is I mean you can see where it's going

to end up um there's a lot of a lot of work to do to get there but that's kind of ultimately the vision I see so whether it's you know drift or polymar or Jason news like you kind of have to work it into the the normal flow of of users for having you know the Standalone site app I mean I think that's where we're eventually had it yeah all right um it's hyper liquid day I want to hear where do we think it launches um I want to hear I know tols is a hyper liquidable I don't know if turbo smack you guys are interested in the product at all so I want to hear your thoughts on it and um yeah do you think it dies out because typically pers kind of die out to the air drop yeah I mean that would be my default assumption just

going off everything we've seen previously I mean there was vertex and I thought you're the hyper liquid bull no I mean I I like hyper liquid it's it's a great product um but I'm just you know realistic about the way that these things generally Trend once you know points end and and the air drops out um but I will say I mean you can look at their volumes the past week two weeks um since points ended and I mean tvls up but that's you know just a function of generally prices going up but I mean the deriv derivatives volume in total is I mean it's it's still up and you know approaching highs so I think there's some signal in there um just because like I said previously I mean you can pull up any chart of I mean

people have tried to make you know these perex is a thing for a long time and the the uh you can generally pull up on defi llama you know their volume and you can point to the exact week or day where the points program or incentives ended and I will say that we haven't really seen that so far in hyper liquid so um it's early but it's a good sign I kind of agree I mean I think hyper liquids this is this uh like the product is great in my opinion uh and so what degree does it fall off I'm sure there will be like some there's some people who are literally just farming it and then don't really care but I actually I don't know if you talk to if you talk to people doing like a

lot of volume on there who actually like using perss my sense is that yeah people just like that like the hyper liquid product way more and are like way more bullish on go forward I mean obviously they're a little bit incentivized to feel that way but I actually I actually I actually do think yeah you see like I don't I I don't have I'm not smart enough to be like oh it's going to drop off x% but I I think you'll see sustained volume like post uh yeah incentives and all this stuff and post air drop yeah and so I haven't used the product I'm not a perpetrator I've never used leverage in my life um but I think it's very clear

that it's a good product and right now there's still too much left to be defined to really make any projections about what's going to happen like whether or not there's going to be I've seen people say they think there's going to be volume requirements to claim part of the airdrop this that the other thing um once we get all the details on the tokenomics and all that stuff I mean we can look at it and make more accurate assessments but I think the thing that's very clear is that there the product is actually good and there's actually a real Community around it and you can see that from perp trators like stow and Nexus

you can see that from spot traders who are on hyper liquid spot you can see that from people building things on top of it like PVP trade um there's already hyper liquid investment collectives that are focused on proliferating the ecosystem uh I'm I'm most as as me an onchain guy I'm most excited to check out the onchain the L1 and see what's what according to everybody else it's it's good stuff so I have been meaning to get in there and familiarize myself with it just because this week we're gonna you know that's the arena that

people are going to be in um and you know you know me I'm fine with missing whatever I miss it's life but it's definitely and and then the other thing is just that they haven't raised money which is incredibly interesting in this day and Agee especially relative to their competitors so admirable too you know very admirable I mean it's like Jeff has values and he sticks to them and it's like those are the people that will figure it out you know it's like he's not asking anybody for help he's they're just figuring it out and I think that's dope yeah I actually do too even though obviously I'm a DC like I think a

lot of times people either over rais or they raise money because they're like oh it's cool to raise money or I should raise money it's like I don't know I I I see stuff like I see stuff like hyperli and I'm like this is pretty sick like yeah it's really easy to misalign your ascentives when you raise and raise just a lot of time yeah and a lot of the time you don't realize it until three years later when you're running through that Silicone Valley scene where he's like wait could I ask could I just ask them for less money and and the guy's like oh my God that would have saved my whole company and I respect that Jeff and the hyper liquid team did it on their own very

much I mean that's kind of my deal Bach you're hyper liquid bull too we got to get your thoughts yeah I I think it's going to do well I don't I think we see like smack said we see some drop off um probably not too much I think Farmers stop using it um I think like one of the main things that is really good about it is like turbo you said there's a bunch of apps building on it PVP trade pvp. trade is fantastic like dude one of the coolest things we've seen in yeah in the past year it's so funny like jez and Stig going at it Stig being at the top of the leaderboard just from holding Giga is so hilarious that's like um talk

if you guys aren't familiar it's telegram trading but exclusively for hyper liquid you can long and short um pers but you can also buy Spot and it has you can start a clan so us four could be in a clan and then we would compete against other clans based on Equity value like how much money we have and how much money we made over the past week it is really [ __ ] fun it's funny I have the that they they have the telegram bot whoa we can swear on this podcast you can say whatever you want but stepan's going to get upset because he's going to have to edit some stuff out very cool what were you going to say smack about the P like yeah a bot that you can add to your telegram chats yeah yeah I've

been telling there's yeah I'm in a group chat a small group chat who's been I've said for like weeks yeah all right I'll I'll I'll do it uh I'll do it this week or this week and it's just I get the update at the end of every day it's like kind of just telling me too much um no it's St I think it's it's tough to do the math unlike protocols if they you don't have their tokenomics but I like kind of safely feel like it would launch at one to two bill um and I think that's pretty attractive for like what it is cu it already has as an L1 it has the best product that we've had this

cycle one of the best products which is hyper liquid so and and like you think of the I mean the pie is also massive right if you think of how much money just like binance obviously binance is a different beast but still like the the the money that binance has made over the last five years I think probably like even capturing portions of that like it's just it's just Nutty Nutty dollar amounts so right yeah you can get some to some wild valuations and I agree I mean one to two billion I mean I'd be pretty comfortable shoving on that um so that would make me happy but I mean it's also you know the valuation game is is you know in crypto a lot of times it's it's very relative too and it

helps when you know everything's up 20 30% in the week you're launching like it gives you a little higher Baseline too the drift performance lately has been uh eye-catching yeah I think that's a market kind of front running hyper liquid a little bit too I mean obviously drift has has their own stuff and um you know the listings are are good Catalyst but I think that's kind of a little like a little bit people playing that relative valuation game you know get drift up there and then hyper liquid does XYZ more than drift and so it should be valued you know at what cost so I think that's a little part in drift's recent run too th honestly this is like one of the most interesting

things I think uh when people talk about crypto stuff is um like in both directions the mental gymnastics that you can play you're being like yeah I really like this thing and instead of but instead of buying it I'm going to go buy this other thing that I think because I like is doing like it's just like hilarious sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but like when it doesn't work you look back and you're you're like the thing I really liked went up a ton but I bought this other thing it is hilarious yeah it's uh that's one of the best dynamics of of crypto to be honest it's um like you said some of the mental gymnastics you see are just it's incredible I think one of my biggest

realizations has been that instead of trying to buy some random beta to something I should just buy the main token like every time I just get wrecked or shafted and I'm like I should have just [ __ ] bought the token well also the the other thing I think is like what can you even measure like do do people ever look and try to actually measure the beta of something like I was I was thinking about this the other day when uh was looking at um something that was beta that's like beta to bitcoin um like closely baited a Bitcoin that I would think um but I was like is this like I think in my mind that it's beta is it actually like can I go back and look at like whether or not it does trade as beta or just like underperforms you know

less than one less than one% of Market participants have ever run any form ofal nobody does that work yeah but it's hilarious that Dynamic it's just like oh yeah this is beta because like it sounds good but then like you said you go back you know six months year performance and you're just like oh maybe it's actually not sometimes it's actually important do that kind most things people call beta are mediocre cope trades yeah yeah that's what that's what I get into one thing I have realized I I ran some beta calculations um and there there is some beta but the thing is that I think the downside is a lot worse than the up like a lot worse than what the upside is like the upside beta is lower than the downside beta I don't know how else to

describe it I know it sounds stupid but no I think it's a good point because it's I mean it's how crypto trades like in general like you see those charts about you know BTC like performance you know x% of performance is captured in like you know a 10-day window and that's the thing with the betas like yeah they're they can be betas but if you miss like a 4our like you know they can go up 30% in a 4our window and like if you miss that then I think that's kind of what you're getting at there too Bach like you the timing has to be perfect and generally you know crypto is such a highly volatile asset class and things go up a [ __ ] ton like you don't want to be relying too much on timing yeah also like for example let's say soul is

BTC this isn't a good one let's say popcat is be Soul beta um or like you calculate it it's like 1.7 or something when Soul goes up popat goes up 1.7 um but when Soul goes down popcat goes down 3.4 like the downside beta is a lot more pronounced than the upside is and it gets really like you need to be really really careful with how you manage that and I can't do that I'm not like I'm not good at that crap so I would just rather like not do the calculations and just shove and like try and figure it out that way you know which is stupid but yeah I mean it just goes to the trending asset environment like you know when things are are strongly trending up like

you're probably okay but again like you're relying heavily on timing and that's not necessarily something that I want to have in my day-to-day calculus because you know it's uh the things go up so much like you don't you don't want to be so relying on that but yeah I hear what you're saying let me let me ask you this also do you guys think that uh going forward let's call it I don't know the next like 24ish months um do you think that we see a much greater diversity of returns of assets or do you think everything Trends up or down together like uh the way it has in the past effectively like oh good environment everything's coming

up doesn't matter what you buy bad environment everything's going down getting wrecked I think there's a going to be more dispersion than we have ever seen I was tweeting the other day about um how this industry is just overweight on [ __ ] that people don't use at all and what I mean by that and most of it is on ethereum and so the the main thing in the sole eth trade now is no longer salana and eth L1 tokens it's about what is on the chains and what these things are valued at the reason that Soul e is going to continue or at least Salon tvl the salon tvl ratio to ethereum tvl ratio is going to continue going up because there are things like

de Central land and sandbox that are collectively worth $1.8 billion doar that is not going to be the case in six months yeah there's a so many things like that that are basically just value waiting to be moved and so a great example of what I mean by that nft statistics uh runs or he used to run this stat a lot of what percentage of nfts on eal1 have been moved in the last 30 days 90 days more than 90 days you can think of it as a histogram very very if you look at Borat

club or even even the most traded collections very very few of those tokens have moved in the previous year we're talking about maybe 15% of those tokens a lot of this tvl is just value waiting for somebody to get up off their couch and decide that they're going to liquidate it and the liquidable value is not the market value yeah I think that's definitely true uh I always wonder how much dead capital is on not like all of these chains almost um every time I go down the coin gecko like top 200 let's say I still am like how much of like how much of this FTB of this kind of chain that I haven't

heard of somebody using in Forever that's at a billion dollars or two billion doar whatever the number is how much of this is just like dead Capital that like you can just effectively Z be moved yeah yeah it's wild um I guess in response to the dispersion question I think unquestionably over 24mon period like dispersion is way up I mean there is something to you know over time markets get a little more difficult and efficient and I think we've seen that I mean we really saw it happen um in the throughout I'd say 23 and really most of 24 until now um I mean crypto is still such a strongly correlated and um just

when everything's going up I think you know the dispersion talk you can kind of just bet on a lot of things but you're going to be left holding you know a lot of a lot of dead bags like you were talking about so you know week to week day to day um I think dispersion matters a little less but you know if you're talking any mid to long-term time frame like I think dispersion only goes up I think I'm G to take a bit of the opposite side here I think and obviously I am younger in the markets than all of you guys so please take my words with a grain of salt but I don't we need we need yeah need a different P perspective I'm I I I need to find the people who join crypto like this year like who who are those I need to hear

what like what they think too I have a I have a bunch of them and their opinions are incredible I love it all right sorry I cut you off no it's okay um too first of all that liquidity question I want to get to that because that thing also blows my mind and I think it's mostly just it's not real it's fake um it's just like how like Sol like some tokens on Solana the market cap is like 600 mil but because the liquidity is CR the real market cap is like 100 Mil um but in terms of dispersion I think that people are overestimating how mature the market has gotten this year I don't think it's as mature as people think it is like I

don't think that all of trafi is here I think that there's going to be some tokens that are valued fundamentally um I think deepen is probably a big for this and obviously like D5 1.0 so those might crater Less in a bear um and over the 24 months they might like perform differently but I still think that we're still in that phase for crypto markets that is whole Space thousand X and not um oh like selecting alts is important um but not as important as it's going to be let's say like next cycle or the cycle after that I I think people are over indexing a bit on how how much the markets matured I think I

think you're right in terms of like and I'm probably overestimating as well like in terms of how much it's going to move around but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm being I just brought this number down I just cut this number in half 35% of the top 100 is different in six months yeah I think that's that's probably about right I mean again though like if you know you're in in like acceleration like trending markets like the dispersion you know and picking matters a little less like you know there's still going to be some brain dead stuff that 3 to 5x is which you know I guess you can be fine holding

that but um I don't know I just think over over a long enough time and and it really matters like we saw you know in kind of like the the six months across the summer like um down from the highs like that's when you really see the dispersion and and you know the coins which coins you're in mattering so it just depends on on the market environment which again like over time like that's a that's a healthier ecosystem so I was glad to see it and I think it'll continue I don't necessarily think it'll matter in the next you know 3 to six months but you know you look out 12 to 24 months like I think asset selection and and dispersion would be would be pretty crucial yeah there are still way too many coins though to send

them all up no we need more Co no we we need more we need more coins like it's it's not like just the Hedge might be right they there are too many to send them all up but we still need more we yeah we need more smack what do you think no I was I I was just curious what you guys thought just because I I do sometimes think uh I uh am mid curving it or like coping about the idea that that will get more dispersion uh depending on asset selection uh I think I think that could be more me being more hopeful it happens sooner than uh than it actually does I just don't think it's as easy as it used

to be it's it's hasn't been as easy as it used to be for the past year there's been more dispersion than ever I don't know why that would stop especially with what I said in terms of just so many m things that are yet to be deflated and whether they can be deflated or most of that value is still locked in VC tokens is you know a case by case basis but a lot of this stuff is like you know I mean yeah that's the other thing I was going to say is I think it matters more at kind of like the earlier stage like VC and Echo type stuff like I think you want to be more um I guess selective in that sense

because we've seen you know stuff from previous cycle that raised that insane valuations like launch under that previous valuation and then trade 30 40 50% sometimes even more lower um so I think there's a little bit of difference between the liquid aspect and the early stage aspect and I think smack you can speak to that more than more than I can but I think the dispersion you're seeing it there first and the valuation there and then that kind of trickles down to the liquid markets eventually chaos Labs the leading onchain risk management firm recently launched its new flagship Oracle product Edge Edge delivers integrated High Precision risk and price data for any application with the market after 2 months of securing

Jupiter Edge has already secured 30 billion in volume and more than 60% of all salana per volume EDG is comprised of three components High Precision price data with an integrated risk engine automated delivery of real-time parameter adjustments on chain and secure delivery of custom data points via zero knowledge proofs follow and reach out to chaos Labs on X to learn more thanks again to chaos labs for sponsoring today's episode what's up guys fuel ignition is finally here fuel ignition is a high performance L2 solution that aims to solve both state sustainability and performance execution as an eoll up ignition is built upon the fuel VM and a utxo based asset Centric architecture with e grade security make sure to check out the growing fuel ecosystem by participating in phase two of the fuel points program today visit

fuel. Network to learn more yeah let's ask maack what he thinks of the private markets how how how were they earlier in the year how are they now and how do you see yeah yeah um I would say there was definitely they were definitely quieter uh there was a period of like six eight weeks there where it was super kind of I want to say dead like everybody I talked to was seeing the same things and also just kind of not excited uh just like yeah yeah not not that interested in the things I'm seeing I mean a couple months ago maybe uh you saw like a zillion prediction Market examples pop up everybody started launching their own because they saw some of the traction poly Market was

having and uh I think that obviously happens all the time uh like maybe a year or two ago it was everybody launching Peres um and so I think there's I don't know there was definitely a period of of I don't know what the word is it's like very lethargic uh I think more recently I would say the AI agent stuff has been it's like everybody's launching an AI agent related company now um so classic yeah it's definitely shifted there but I think just in terms of like overall Market there's there's been more

interesting things I would say over the last couple months that I've seen uh particularly on the app side I think people are people are there's there's like a definitely a broader pivot to uh the application stuff people are talking about of oh he apps can capture value we need stuff that quote unquote people will actually use uh so there's been I would say a shift to that but I don't know if that's just because I've mostly been saying I'm less interested in new block space stuff and so I'm seeing more of those pitches um and then PR pricing wise like I don't know we we invest like it's it's a little bit harder to say because we typically are doing literally first

check uh and so like that that pricing doesn't vary as much as the next round uh but I would say of a spectrum yeah I would say the pricing side is kind of starting to oh start has has kind of like yeah rated a little bit over the last couple months two or three months i' a perfect that's that's um that makes me happy what what are some yeah I was going to say the app focus makes me makes me excited I want to go back for one second just cuz what I call the proliferation of ideas after one idea is successful the many

captains problem it's a thing I talk about quite frequently because I could never bring myself to work on like a meme coin Launchpad right now when pump is around it's like you're sailing a dingy into a sea where there's a giant pirate ship and you're going to get you're going to get wrecked and I don't understand why so many PE actually I do understand why so many people run into the many captains problem they love to it's because VCS and Founders largely a lot of them lack independent Vision a lot of them lack courage to try an idea that's new and might fail drastically

and the people who are doing those things are people like seed club and Alliance Dow who have invested in the hottest things over the past 12 months because they wen't playing yeah and compound and collab currency and these you know there's a bunch of guys who are good at this there's a bunch of guys who invest in copycats that just look Juiced up and this is why you have so many l2s this is why you have so many prediction markets this why you have so many meme coin launchpads this why you have so many AI tokens they all do the same thing and everybody would be better off they were all on the same pirate ship but instead a lot of people want to sell their own dinghy I have no desire to ever sell my

own dinghy into a sea full of pirate ships it doesn't make any sense you're not going to win I agree with that what did um sorry about smack you what are what are you guys looking for that are pirate ships and not dingies like what do you guys want to see built what are some things that you're particularly excited about great question okay so for me like my my whole thing with everything in crypto is like all right is the thing you're building actually either like like is is there like a big market like if you win is is does it matter and so I I don't know sometimes in crypto I feel like there's the ambition is almost too small where it's like yeah this is maybe

an interesting feature for something else but it's not not like this is not a a venture scale outcome if you build the best version of this so like the stuff that's been interesting to me on the app side specifically is like I'll give you what's one example I the things that are cool like the wearables company we didn't invest in these guys but um what's the name of the company n NYX is the founder pulse I think um so pulse is I think they're shipping their first version the the like a whoop device where it's owning your own like owning that Healthcare data um which I I think is interesting

because there's all kinds of problems in the healthcare space with data and so there's like it's very siloed there's like actually huge markets there that have real problems that are like nobody in the web 2 space is necessarily incentivized to solve or wants to solve and so the crypto side of that I think is super interesting and the markets are massive so if you can start with some type of wearable that's maybe an interesting way to to like tap into that market and you can abstract away a lot of the stuff so it's like okay um that's interesting because they're building kind of like a app Hardware product first to try to solve that problem um I saw a recent pitch around um like uh

roaming so roaming data like Telco roaming data problems and how using eims is is really a pain in the ass you have to constantly switch or you have to buy a bunch of them at once and uh the service isn't necessarily great and it's kind of rips your face off and so building building uh specifically an application designed for roaming and like people who travel a ton and and use a bunch of eims uh that's like an interesting wedge again into Telco which is a legacy institution Market that is huge and has all kinds of problems no it it almost reminds me of like cable companies nobody brags to their friends about how awesome their Telecom provider is it's

like I use this version or this version they both suck but for different reasons uh nobody's happy about that so it's like those are big markets where people are trying to build like a first version uh a first like application Level okay let me solve this problem and and potentially have some sequence of why this like why I can capture a bigger slice of this massive pie down the road um yeah so that's maybe two examples I guess yes stuff like that's definitely interesting and I mean it goes back to what you said about what do you win when you win and that's something that should always be top of mind for everyone I mean you're talking about you know Healthcare and health tracking and and measuring and Telecom like those are you know two of the biggest industries in not only the us but the world generally

so stuff like that is is really exciting I think connected to that there's going to be we're going to see a lot more boring stuff coming on Shan you know Telecom it's you know objectively compared to the dumbest dumbest Financial products the world has ever seen it's rather boring but it's a real thing and I think we're going to see a lot of stuff like that there's a there's somebody putting a bunch of commodi stuff on chain there's multiple people putting a bunch of commodi stuff on chain there's people doing map data there's people doing natural resources data there's people doing all this different stuff a lot of boring stuff is going to come on chain I'm most

interested in the AI stuff for sure I've been kind of locked in on that for like three weeks and I think and so I have a tweet about how the most important thing that came out of nfts in 2021 isn't any of the ideas or the iterations of the ideas but it was really just the entrance to cryptocurrency and the blockchain of a new bucket of users before 2021 it was broadly speaking obviously there's exceptions blah blah blah it was mostly devs and Traders smart people and profiteers nfts brought in artists and creatives in a way that we didn't have

before this AI stuff is doing the same thing we now have ai Twitter interested in our stuff real people real Brands real thoughts phds and real jobs are now playing in our sandbox Larry Finks in the sandbox Sam alman's in the sandbox people are starting to see that they should probably get in the sandbox and so what two weeks ago we had noose who is an open source AI research company publish a paper on T the pet rock that can you know use its own wallet and blah blah blah and you know we have goat blah blah blah and that ball is just all

those ideas are out of the box anything that you can think of you can probably figure out a way to do it within the next five years and so I'm most interested in what appears out of that and I'm not particularly trying to predict it I don't think there's much use in predicting it I think you just have to read and react um because there's been a bunch of stuff I mean yesterday this sentience coin I do own it um basically acknowledged its own token and and like acknowledged that the price is important independently

and the this is this ball is just going to keep rolling when when people see somebody do something I you know I wrote about this in 9 out of 10 monkey brains four minute mile okay after after the 4-minute mile got broken 350 340 okay you see somebody do something and you're like oh wow that's not impossible and then you go build on it yeah all the and so where we are in six months on the AI side I have absolutely no idea anybody who tries to tell you they do is probably trying to sell you something that was good yeah I mean it's definitely like you said it's that Pandora's Box thing where it's just you know it's it's opened up and smacka definitely need your thoughts on the on

the cryto AI stuff because I know you guys you guys have a dedicated AI team at compound VC too right for traditional AI stuff too so that's why I like getting your thoughts on things as well because I remember when we first talked about the AI and crypto stuff this was maybe like seven months ago and it's just like oh yeah but you know I talked to people that actually invest in this like you know in the traditional sense for a living and it's just it's funny like the mental gymastics like we were talking about earlier just what the difference between reality and the stuff that people tweet about on on crypto Twitter so yeah I don't know if you have any they call Top tick crypto crazy he's a Visionary he's supposed to come on the Pod he still won't I'm gonna

Sue we'll get him we'll get him but yeah smack what do you think about the whole crypto a I mean obviously it's you know it's bare metal right now but you can kind of squint and see the vision a bit yeah yeah um I definitely think that's true I yeah when we talked about it previously I was like yeah stuff's all Vapor yeah well well mostly still is baby yeah yeah people would tell me like you obviously I spend like uh like Mike and Shelby and McKenzie spend more time on AI specific stuff but yeah like so we've part of our fund does AIML robotics investing and has been doing

that since 2016 16 2 so it's like I think yeah the like it like you get this compounding knowledge of okay will this work does this make sense like over time as you see companies built get built that way um I don't know you get like a better appreciation the same way you would in crypto of hey I've seen this kind of I've seen this route I've seen this attempted uh this won't work for these reasons or it will and so yeah I think back then I was like yeah this is mostly mostly vaporware it doesn't feel like there's a ton of Hardcore ml AI Talent who's interested in the stuff that we're doing um I I actually

think one of the one of the like interesting problems that to me is is related to AI but less on the agent side has been um the distributed model stuff that I think a lot of people didn't think was possible um including like really smart people on the like AIML side uh and so there is a crypto AI company out there who is in is it in yeah inel they're running like a 10 billion parameter distributed training like they're yeah using distributed training on a 10 billion parameter model which is um like it's not a huge model but uh it's something that I think a lot of people didn't think was feasible and so

you're seeing excitement from traditional AI labs and people who are like this is sick um like I'm interested to see what these loss ratios look like how the performance is I think it's probably around two-thirds done today so it's like it's going to take takes a while it's like these things you can't like up in a day um and so it's like very TBD but to turo point I I do think I I agree like the more you can get different groups of people who have specializations outside of crypto interested in the space for one reason or another uh mostly for non mostly for reasons that are not profit is the important part yeah yeah yeah yeah like

like I don't it's it's less interesting if you have people from research Labs who come and are like o i can launch a token laun a token anybody anybody can be interested for profit that's not interesting right yeah yeah I think that's true um and maybe and and this was something the last two years I think uh I guess during like the bare Market people were wondering you know people talked about the nft boom and it was like Hey this brought this actually brought in a ton of people uh some of them wash out and leave which is fine but you get this consistent growing base of people interested in crypto and so uh if AI crypto is something that brings more smart people more people interested in

like playing with this technology is a good thing uh still fairly skeptical of the crypto AI stuff I've seen personally so far um but yeah I don't in reality Alpha leag I'm just waiting for one of these Bots to figure out that it needs to make an oh flywheel um make it own make its own proof of work chain or proof of stick chain now we're absolutely cooking dude that's to man we can't do another to we need to pump the only tow that we already have to needs to needs an AI agent that's as funny as zerob bro to pump its flywheel

I don't know what to tell you uh why don't why doesn't T make a subnet with a zerob bro okay um and before I forget AI wallet UI like wayfinder and there's another one let me find it because it's cool um and it's worth it show the the most interesting like near-term feasible thing on the AI agent side that I think would be cool just from a user experience and like almost of a reality thing too is um the ability to kind of tell your agent or wallet UI however it's designed like go do these things for me and and and have it come back

like have have the ability to come back to you with questions it's like yeah almost treating it like intern like hey I I have these things that I would like to have done and come back to me when you have questions as you're doing it but like longer form context for doing things on chain I think would be interesting yeah and so the other one that I'm thinking of is is called Nani shout out shout out Shout Out n as well xbt um but it's it's n niore z00 z uh they are a AI wallet UI just like um similar to white finder and I've previously said that I think that AI wallet UI is one of the few

hopes to solve ethereum fragmentation just because you can type a sentence and have your AI agent run across three chains from and it's like I have that tweet and I have another one that says when I when I talk about liquidity fragmentation on ethereum I'm not actually talking about theoretical Prospect of liquidity fragmentation I'm talking about the fact that it takes me 400 clicks and 12 minutes to go from one thing I want to do on eth to another thing I want to do on E the thing that could solve that is tell typing one sentence to your AI agent and having him do it in one minute without you clicking another button I've also said that that's if that is the savior of eth

it's going to be a shame when the eths act like it was a plan man and not a serendipitous savior um but that's beside the point I will say two things about this first of all I love the idea of the agent instead of the crappy [ __ ] UI where I have to revoke and then do stuff all the time um I wanted to do auto compounding stuff as well because for some reason like all lending and yield stuff doesn't have Auto compounding but the issue here is that anytime that for example let's say anthropic um updates Claude uh or like the model it it does it starts doing something differently like it starts [ __ ] up in

some way and I don't like I don't like that chance with like I I know like in the long term or not even like over the next six months this probably won't be a worry anymore but like in the short term that's my only serious worry with agents is that right when weights are changed or when parameters are changed or when like the data input into these models is changed or when they update something in the background something like things change and I don't like that things can change when I'm interacting with money like I don't want to tell it like oh bridge over to salana and then it like Bridges to F says good luck I don't like and and I think that um I would guess that projects like Nani and wayfinder

aren't running on like a claw API that can be changed by anthropic without their knowledge I would guess that they're probably running their you know you would hope that they're running their own models with their own weights that they update themselves so that those issues can be prevented but it's definitely one of those things you know it's kind of like it I agree just because it's it's similar to the feeling I get using a zura I've been using Aura lately um shout out them I like I like them better than other trading terminals just because the UI feels like it takes itself more seriously and um less dark pattern type stuff but I you know when you use these terminals

it's like oh and and so they also have they're working on making your wallet some form of trustless I don't have a full understanding of that but you do have a seed phrase and they're working on that still I think um but like I get anxiety when I have too high of imbalance in Aura because if this goes down or whatever like even if there's maintenance for 15 minutes like I can't have that you know yeah and it's the same deal you saying you're profitable must be nice this wallet this wallet has a Target this wallet has a Target painted on its back already it's two months old oh I think also just like to Box Point around the agent stuff like

you're not you're kind of uncomfortable with the existing experience and you're probably think about like the average person who's not even in crypto you're probably way out on the risk curve of like yeah I'm comfortable with lots of stuff and this is something I'm not so it's like right our understanding is so much deeper yeah and we're uncomfortable that's great point if I'm uncomfortable with something then it has to have extremely extremely high RIS if we are uncomfortable with something the chances are the lay person doesn't even understand what we're uncomfortable with yeah oh um I guess you know another 10 15 minutes or so if that's uh that's cool smack I got to hear your thoughts a little bit on on deepen I know you guys put out that the to's the host

now I got I got to hear deepen you know my my love for deepen and um you and Noah wrote an excellent report that I know a lot of people aren't going to read um but if you want to give I listen to the AI summary some high level if you want to give some high level thoughts there that would be and kind of where you see deepend going because just going back to you know what we were talking about earlier just bringing more things on chain more people from other expertise like you're seeing it with you know solar and energy um just kind of your your general thoughts on on where that's headed yeah yeah shout out to Noah too I mean he spent a crazy amount of time working on shout no um yeah so I think the deepin stuff

like it kind of goes back to um just originally at least how I and compound kind of thinks of where we want to spend time and be investing in the crypto side is like again if you win if you win is the prize big enough to matter um and so the deep inside I think there's a lot of interesting markets that exist that are kind of broken or have these like huge problems uh that are either there's no incentive to solve them in a traditional way or they're just like the most slow moving Legacy institutions ever and yeah like keep going and I'm gonna come back to that those those are the ones you would expect like of of course it

happened for financial institutions first for crypto U but there's tons of other industries that are just very stale or or just not very Innovative and so the technology away from crypto like specifically on energy for example like you brought it up tlk so like energy is super interesting because uh because like battery and solar storage technology has gotten so much better over the last like 5 to 10 years that you can do stuff today that you couldn't have done back then then so like there's just these other waves of technology that have improved in the last decade so much that it becomes feasible to start like disrupting those

Industries in a different way and so like distributed energy super interesting because markets are massive uh how it's done today is not good even on the financing side um and it makes sense like there's a reason why a distributed Network uh is better than a centralized one for something like that uh and so look moving power around is not exactly the easiest thing in the world so it's not like oh yeah just throw up some panels and we're good to go but but like but but the whole thing is like okay well usually if you're building like a company that's going to be some multi-billion dollar decillion dollar outcome like you don't really

spin those up in 24 months 36 months like that's not normal in crypto sure we get ftvs that are ludicrous very quickly um but that's yeah like it's it's not the norm and so uh obviously it's going to take time but the in yeah the industries like Telco uh energy healthc care in particular I think there's just these waves yeah yeah there's just this wave of like hey people kind of feel like they're getting wrecked by Financial by traditional institutions or Legacy institutions across like a bunch of different vectors like money data all of these things and it's like all right uh if you have more ownership in crypto like how do you actually build

businesses that get to like this very these very acute points that people have and then like you go from there U and so deepin is the natural is like a natural space I think for uh for a lot of these companies to be built and yeah I I mean the markets are just massive like there's there's one thing we joke about is this like acoustic Network like there's a company public company called shotspotter that does couple hundred million dollars a year in Revenue that most people have never heard of and it's like okay why would a distributed version of this not actually be a way Superior one um and yeah it's just there's just a ton of stuff like that uh that I think maybe

more crypto native people just they don't think about so the other real quick the other thing that always excites me is like it's the justifiability of the token as like you know incentives and like some connection to Hardware real life work like even you know the Wall Street analyst or you know the your local news station like you can understand why you can see the the strings between why the token is necessary in a world where you know there's a bunch of unnecessary tokens like that always is one of the things that I hang my hat on with deepen and why I'm excited about is because it you know the the token matters in a sense more than a lot of a lot of other

sectors within crypto yeah it actually has a real value Loop and now you can uh potentially Direct Value acral back to the Token maybe in right right that'd be awesome what a time so to go back to um Legacy systems and such and no incentive to upgrade my other domain my day job is physical Commodities and so I work with these systems I've worked with these systems for three and a half years every day and I can tell you for a fact that these are billion doll industries that move billions of dollar maybe trillions of dollars of volume every day week um

over the Internet over systems that many of them were literally built on Windows XP some of them actually launch a virtual machine that runs on Windows 2000 or it's not XP it's the one before um and these companies and their users neither of them have any incentive to upgrade that because the the users can only use that software there's no alternative you have to use that software to do the job there's no incentive to upgrade it it doesn't make any sense some of these things are infuriatingly terrible UI all this there's just so much room for

improvement across the board and you're basically everybody's just kind of waiting for somebody to get up and do it and like for example I've told my boss before that the first person to plug clad into all our data and use it to 10ax our thinking is going to wipe the floor with everybody for a couple weeks until everybody else figures out what they're doing and that can basically be applied to all of all of these industries especially trade related commodity Industries um but yeah there's there's an incredible amount of room for new ideas because like I explain my day job to people and they're like oh wow I've

never even heard of that and like nobody thinks about how coffee is shipped okay nobody thinks about how oil is shipped nobody thinks about how power moves no thinks about how natural gas moved dude I I'm honestly I'm super interested in oil just because like I don't I don't understand the process compared to my um profession my industry has more rules more uh more constraints and it's like with oil like you're you're like communicating with with vessels and stuff dude D like that's what it is for coffee like how is milk traded okay I

don't know one of my accounting teachers in school told me the reason that I actually reneged on my accounting offer and went to take this job is because I asked the TA or the professor that I was ta for and he said I mean I don't know man one of my one of my former students took a job trading milk and he's doing really well and I was like what does that even mean okay a lay person has no idea what a commodity Market looks like and they don't need to and but somehow those markets are going to be upgraded their Innovation is going to come for them they're going to become more efficient they're not going to run on Windows XP forever the only other kind of like Point around this I would make

is just that um which I think is important and probably underrated is like the career risk now for suggesting some type of alternative that's involved with crypto is a lot lower than it was three or four years ago like it a th% yeah that's a great point four years ago if you if you said oh well there's this there's this deepin network that uses crypto like people would be like let me tell you about the blockchain and now you now you can go to your boss and say Sam alman's in the sandbox Larry thinks in the sandbox [ __ ] are we doing over here it's legal it's legal now the president is in the sandbox yeah the career Isis just like infinitely lower I think which which matters if you think about decision

makers I will say the thing I wanted to say was like a lot of the Legacy systems run on Windows XP but I feel like that's you know how like flight systems are also run on like Commodore 64 or some [ __ ] like from way yeah and it's just because it's a giant it's such a large cost and such a headache to replace these systems and so they do it peac meal and it's like every once in a while like you'll get a new upgrade on on one part of it and then over time sometimes you end up you know what's the smack name of that myth with the ship if you replace all the boards is it still the same ship oh yeah yeah yeah God you don't have that right off the top of your head no what do I keep

you around for it's it's thank you I I knew I should ask the European um but yeah it's like these things get replaced peace meal over time and then eventually you know some salesman for a new system comes in and convinces some guy at the top to replace the whole thing thing and then they do it it's a giant pain in everybody's ass until you figure it out again three months later and then it's way better that's a good point I'm going to ask one one last thing um and I think we can can we talk about markets BTC is at 83k dude dude yeah we haven't even like what is going on over here man jeez Lou right all right all right let's R um how

about peanut dude that's that's Welcome to The Purge welcome to financial crime is once against legal onchain this is what I meant by the way smack you know when I ask you like what can you say on the podcast this is specifically what gonna knock off my door say hey man I don't know how I ended up on this in this group this probably added by a third party definitely added yeah maybe just in closing like smack your kind of thoughts on on liquid side and I mean vc2 just kind of the next I don't know maybe couple quarters to

through 2025 if you have any any thoughts there yeah um bullish no um yeah just kidding uh no I think yeah look I I I think um I think the setup is um Obviously good about as good as you could have hoped for if you're just like a crypto specific person um realistically I think the stuff like any regulatory movement and change is going to take longer than people expect I don't think you really see anything like material that happening there until probably this summer uh obviously markets don't care they're going to front run a lot of that

anyway I just say that's good you don't want the dev you don't want the dev shipping should we you want the you want the anticipation anticipation should we wrap up with should we wrap up with inning talk dude I can't do inning talk TBO I was going to wrap up asking you about your thoughts on nfts but we can do inning talk I don't I just don't know how many innings there are in baseball that's the thing it's nine or 10 we don't we we don't need to do inning talk we don't need to do inning talk are you a cricket guy no no Cricket smack already wrot the article about inning talk he doesn't want to go over again I don't care it's m it's dime it's it's I forgot you call me that it's Mady it's dime it's smac I'm not changing I

think all right so the the one thing I'll say on the market side is like I I don't really understand and maybe you guys maybe you disagree with this I don't really understand people keep asking me like oh you going to sell during the inauguration or you gonna sell Q2 oh like when we're going to top in the summer like what why why why are they're so concerned with they're incredibly concerned with bridges that are are on the horizon just now they're like oh when are we going to cross that bridge that's [ __ ] 10 miles away I don't know how I'll cross it when I get there yeah I'm I'm more of like all right I'll just keep paying attention to the things that I think matter and that'll if they if those things look horrendous in two months I'll be like ah

yeah I don't things don't look great if they don't look that different and prices are much higher I'm not going to be like you got to like this is the top G up like people people were doing that this summer they're like no we topped it's over like dude people were people were Hawking coinbase coinbase App Store rank in [ __ ] March before we made alltime high it's like hey settle down bucko keep it in your pants dude I had people messaging me when it was I think we went alltime high and then we had a correction and I have this guy that I know um and he's just like a Perma bear for crypto for some reason but he's one of those ones that like brings it up a lot um you know like and he just he

messaged me and he was like is it over like is this the end yeah it's so over I had I have a buddy actually who trades like IG credit and he's like a very try like very plugged into traditional markets texting me yesterday being like is this like should I start selling some of my Bitcoin here and I was like I was kind of like what like what is the thesis for that and he's like I mean how much more can it go up and I'm like all right like oh buddy I I'm not I don't want to have this conversation right I'm not gonna defend it now to you uh so do whatever you want I don't know I think Market's look

good yeah oh wow thanks thanks for the Insight you got anything else y I think things look things look great yeah I mean it really it's like such a like bell curve meme but it's literally like us Capital markets like they run the world and like crypto is literally just essentially legalized for the first time ever like the president is going to sell a 1 million piece nft collection for one Bitcoin each and people are like should I should I buy yeah it just doesn't have to be more complicated than that like and I think people like what smack said about you know timing one to sell and you know the inauguration or q1 Q2 like I don't know I mean you have a

constructive View for the next month or two and then you constantly observe like the metrics that you look at that you think matter and there's no reason to sell like I'm not GNA sell it's really I wake up every day I read the tea leaves I click the button they tell me to that being said selling is definitely harder than buying so I do think why would I ever sell selling selling is not that hard you press the red button you press the red button and then you press two more buttons and it's in your bank account everybody should try it why would I ever sell the market can only go up because I'm not buying I'm not buying your beers forever no yeah I don't know my my my uh my view

on like the selling stuff is also it's way easier to think about it today like I as even though I just fed people asking me one to sell I I think like the timing stuff doesn't matter but you should probably think about about the stuff that you own like I don't know maybe this is yeah Kobe has the tweet I it's I have the screenshot of it where the guy asks him I'm stealing your stealing your rant here um and I'm not sorry uh let me pull it up just because Kobe has so he used to have that pyramid right about allocations and it's from 2017 satar quoted it this from November 11th and Kobe says God I really

need to post an update on this thing that I no longer agree with a bunch of chatter and somebody says Kobe goes if you have $1,000 and you bought $100 salon at $1 does it make sense for you to be selling it randomly at $10 because it's now half of your portfolio or is it better to try and identify good exit for the asset based on the assets reality to me if you bought a winner it's very unlikely to be the top exactly when some portfolio rule of yours kicks in instead it's better to try to figure out why it's a winner and figure out an optimal exit for this bet you rather than selling for reasons the market doesn't care about it the old school crypto it was more fine to sell stuff arbitrarily because you never really missed out on anything meaningful maybe it went three to five x higher

than you thought oh well but post 2020 it goes 100 x higher than you thought and becomes a legitimate asset so yeah optimal exits is what you look for you're not looking for you know you're not looking for when Lil pump launches another shitcoin okay you're not looking for when soldja Boy comes back for his 20th scam these aren't these aren't top signals anymore they're things that happen all the time because crypto is not Niche anymore everybody knows what it is yeah you're never going to sell it like selling the top I think is unrealistic and you actually I I was doing a little bit of analysis on this recently of previous cycles and like how

long you actually had to if you look back and said if I sold at all during this range I would be happy and like those ranges are a little bit longer than you would expect I mean they differ depending on the the coin obviously like 10 weeks they're shorter they're shorter for like the more speculative stuff obviously but there's if you if you're not thinking about those things I think ahead of time then that's how you can start to talk yourself into uh round tripping a lot of stuff so dude I I'm definitely round tripping and I'm definitely going super cycle mode like 100% I already know it hell yeah um I'm going to fly over there and click your buttons for you dude I just I don't know I I have that tendency I get really

hyped up and I I caught myself yesterday I was like because I have let's say like I think token X is going to go to 200 mil and that's my like price targ but I I was you know what like markets are going up this one actually might go to like just quadruple your target no but legit it's yeah this is why this is why I think it's it's just like even if you're scaling out of stuff you're not going to be you're never going to be perfect like you're not going to be mad yeah down the road CT's obsession with you know entries and exits like it's just it's you know again like goes back to the discussion earlier like this is a highly like volatile you know an asset

class I can appreciate a lot in a short time frame like you don't have to be perfect like that's just you know get that through your head I need to figure this out I actually might need to sit down and look at my back so you you B Bach you're telling us you're actually doing beta analysis on like tokens but but then it's like the uh two there are uh whatever two wolves inside of you B being like let me do very sophisticated let me do this analysis on beta and then also price Target 5x just because I'm feeling good dude but it's just like perfectly balanced perfectly balanced I always see like that I like or like Twitter people that

I respect talk about how the majority of the battle is actually like psychology um yeah and I always I'm like I don't know about that but then like I've started to realize more and more that it literally is just me fighting against my monkey brain which is constantly like hey man this one could go a little bit higher you know just hold a little bit more and it's it's 100% true like the for me at least like it's just about trying to figure out [Music] it's just trying to outsmart yourself yeah it's literally been that um I think that's a good way to well what what do we think talks talky do you

have anything else you want to ask Mount Rush movies I don't think so no I think uh I think we cover it all I mean smack I don't know if you have any any final thoughts on on anything in general um if not you can just tell people where to find you in compound VC and always DM smack he will respond yeah yes uh you can find me incidentally on Twitter uh it's probably easiest zerx smack uh and compound. VC is our uh company site lots of writing on there that some people read a lot of people don't but people should go read it probably we'll probably keep writing anyway I say I read it on Twitter

nice what about how can people reach you uh just get me on Twitter it's turbo foros um but yeah I don't know I got I got a bunch of stuff cooking I got all I got some announcements I got coming up pretty exciting stuff so announcement of an announcement yeah that's the hell are you announcing my entire life is just slowly becoming the things I hate like I used to be the guy who' be like when one of my friends was like oh my God I know this unreleased ID I was I would be like dude shut the [ __ ] up okay and now I'm the guy who's like holy [ __ ] I know this unreleased ID and now I'm the guy who's doing announcements of announcements it's whatever turo is Turbo is dming me some wild stuff uh in the last week or

two he was he was multiple multiple Michelin star dishes in the oven I don't know which one is going to come out first we just kind of let them cook are you writing again I have like 15,000 words in my computer that I'm just that I need to organize into an order that makes sense it's releasing his Opus I imagine page one is just TLS whipping turbo until turbo produces like a single lately it's actually just boping writing writing essays and me and tol's [ __ ] off and then coming on the podcast as well all right uh smack smack uh turbo smack smack don't listen to

Turbo um talks I'm not going to thank you anymore because you're it's like fifth time on here um damn he a he is a co-host um turbo smack thanks for coming on I appreciate you guys taking the time to come here talk about yourselves the markets and everything that's near and dear to you a great pleasure thanks for having us yeah thanks fellas [Music]