How to Build Institutional-Grade Crypto Infrastructure

Transcript

thanks so much hi everyone so nice to have you here and we are delighted to have this session with you to dive into how to build institutional grade crypto infrastructure we have some of the longest standing crypto crypto Valley Association members such as Ledger and a bunch of new companies uh upload we have kaiko and we also have Talos joining us to share their viewpoints and also to just elaborate on the topic of today um what an exciting topic but also what an exciting week in the history of crypto and um my name is Emily Lawrence the CVA president I have the the honor to be the

president since February this year and the cva's mission is really to Foster collaboration among the members be it corporate or be it institutional members let's kick this off and uh start with uh with introducing the panelists please all introduce yourself and to share what your company does in the ecosystem Lila would you like to go ahead please sure hello everyone thank you Emmy and it's nice to be on this panel I have to preface it I feel like I need a big Ledger sign behind me everyone else has like some swag that they're rocking so um Lava Garcia Global head of customer success at Ledger says the sign behind me um I've been with Ledger for about a

year previously I was working in traditional financial services at what's now called London Stock Exchange group and Bloomberg Ledger Enterprise is a global technology provider really empowering organizations to participate in the digital asset ego excuse me the digital asset ecosystem securely and at scale we have a SAS platform that delivers treasury management defy nft token creation capabilities with secure governance pleasure to be here tonight thanks so much Oliver would you like to go ahead sure thank you for the invitation as well I'm glad to be on this panel um so Oliver Yates I'm the co-founder and CEO of Apple um we're a French company is about three

years old um and we're a leading provider of private brokerage services in the digital asset space in France um in the EU but also globally so um we offer Best in Class services for trading custody lending and we also offer some intelligence around you know Security Management reporting and research great thanks so much Oliver great to have you buddies would you like to go next of course thank you so my name is I'm joined Kaku two years ago we were placed has been around since 2014 personally I've been in Marx infrastructure since I started working so we're at primary

express training system for traditional finance and then I spent six years at your next building exchanges literally but traditional Finance exchanges people joining kaiku and working on these nutritional great financial infrastructure infrastructure result crypto sounds like you you've seen a lot uh thanks so much for joining and being here uh Alphonse hey everybody my name is Alfonso mandisi I'm head of sales and business development at Talos um I'm gonna tell us for about two years prior to Telus was at Ledger Enterprise actually and then prior to that traditional Capital markets uh mostly inequities at Citigroup um great to meet you all I think just a

little bit about Talos so we are a single point of access to a network of institutional service providers so we are a technology provider uh powering both buy side and sell side interactions um with the street and so those service providers include exchanges otcs settlement networks custodians and lenders and our goal is to really take both buy and sell side participants through the entire trade life cycle and we can get into a little bit more of what that means later thanks so much for having me yeah we are so happy to to have you here uh all of you and maybe let's dive a bit more into first what is the what is the USB of your company's Lila and Oliver if you can allude to that how are you

setting up the institutions you you cater to or you serve how are you setting them up for success go ahead sure thank you Lyle I'm happy to start um so you know for decades investors have been using prime Brokers to access multiple asset classes like you know equities or Commodities or foreign exchange and they do that because it just makes their life simpler and they can focus on the strategy that's really the sole purpose of a prime brokerage is to take care of all the the low level operations at the plumbing and so if you look at the crypto space right now um if you look at funds for example they'll have to resort to using a bunch of different providers it's pretty

fragmented in order to build their own stack for investing that can be quite time consuming and so the idea with apple is that institutions can trust a single provider to take care of all of that um and you know make their lives easier at the end of the day it's the same purpose as traditional Prime Brokers the the method and the tooling is just different [Music] thanks for for uh giving me a sign guys so Oliver besides how are you setting them up to success also how are you making sure that their risks are managed or how are you protecting them

absolutely so that is true I it's one of our our main jobs and uh and I I didn't want to cover that one just because I don't want to enter into too much technical aspects but there's two ways we mitigate counter priorities for our customers the first one is that we are a qualified custodian with the French SEC the AMF so whatever assets are in our custody they're not on our balance sheet which is quite relevant right now in the current set of events um and secondly you know our customers are going to want to access multiple exchanges venues and you know execute through us and at that point the way we mitigate counterparty risk is that first of all we have a system that rebalances assets across all the venues and minimizes the amount of

assets on said venues for any given customer so it's less than if they were doing that on their own the second aspect is for some customers we can also take the counter probably risk for them on those venues against the premium and at that point they don't even have have to you know take care of any specific Exchange I hope that answers the question yeah absolutely we can dive deeper into that uh towards the second part um Lila what is the what is the the ultimate uh selling point of Ledger Enterprise if you would be so kind to uh allude to that you're in exchange a custodian

um an asset manager or a corporation that's looking to launch a new nft strategy for example um or a corporation that's looking to manage treasury um you know the first concern should be security um and then scalability so what we aim to do as a platform is allow companies to grow securely and then at scale while also unlocking the larger crypto ecosystem thanks so much uh I'm interested to to learn also that um all phones and and but this your companies make it easy for businesses to tap into the potential of crypto and of course how is Talos enabling their clients to succeed and uh

and then I will ask the question two baddies as well sure I think there's kind of two main pieces here so uh really what we're trying to do is set a new standard for crypto trading and that's what we sought out to do when we started the company and so we have our roots in building high performance trading systems for both the buy side and the sell side in traditional markets across FX and equities and really crypto is no different we knew that there was a standard that we needed to reach in crypto when it comes to the feature set that you are used to the workflows that we can adopt and adapt to um the general safety performance and reliability of these systems and so the first step was very easy it was thinking

about things like liquidity aggregation multi-dealer RFQ building out Algos making sure we had really strong Market data but now there are things within the crypto ecosystem that we can do here that we couldn't do in traditional markets and that's actually thinking about that full trade life cycle so what can you do post-trade um you can actually hook into custodians and settlement networks you can manage your working capital and you can settle Direct through the talus platform and really the whole goal is to you know build the system from the ground up based off of what we learned in the past about how to build high performance systems but also cater to kind of the nuances and idiosyncrasies that you may run into and the constraints you may run into in crypto around exchange pre-funding obviously connecting over the Internet lack of standardization and

reliability from some providers that everyone generally is getting better and so really we're trying to be this resilient and performant layer on top of that and then cater to not only just buy side workflows but also cell site workflows as well with a brokerage and a box solution that we're building out right now there's so much to unpack there and I think yeah and later we can totally uh unpack a few points you mentioned um but this one when we prepared for this then you were saying that kaiko caterers in four ways uh to to its clients can you please uh share which are these four ways

so kaiko we're a data product services and solutions provider all along the different the different needs uh for the for the investment life cycle and I think something worth mentioning is the trend that we have now in crypto in particular but also in in the whole traditional finance and fintech and all of that world is that Tech and solutions exactly what that is doing very well is getting commoditized to a certain extent infrastructure is getting commoditized and that's the whole blockchain this is right so that makes the next level of difficulty being data in all of its aspects and what we do in four ways indeed to ease the job of our of the

whole ecosystem including infrastructure providers and system providers uh all along the value chain it's first making sure that there is resilience and institutional grade Market data services available across any type of exchange is standardized and so on so that's pure what we call C5 Market data services the second thing when it comes to everything that happens on chain there is a deep need there for for data to be worked on in a in a very particular way because there is a lot of business being done into network data a lot about all the data a lot of birds follow like there are incredible companies doing a

good job at it but what we saw and what we started doing is that you don't have the same venue level Market data that you could have on on centralized or traditional Finance exchanges so what we we've been doing is literally extract Ledger records that you have on chain and engineer Market data out of that which means we reverse engineer the protocol we read the blockchain from inception and we maintain this kind of real-time View and real-time tick level Market data engineered out of the blockchain for all of the protocols that we cover we're also looking into building Oracle solutions that kind of bridge what is available through web3

oracles and so on in their own channel the the Third Way of easing the job of um our clients is through quantitative Solutions um in the risk management uh world so typically if you look at traditional finance and you do get a big Bitcoin back loan and so on you need interest interest rate curves you need uh a set of what is perceived as being extremely vanilla in traditional Finance but that doesn't exist to some extent or not yet in in crypto so we're heavily working on making that available and at scale and according to those standards uh for the crypto ecosystem and the last piece is

indices and reference rates whereby for whether it is passive investment whether it is Benchmark whether it is marking prices uh pricing is as hard today whatever the development that we've been through and all of the ecosystem has been through as it was five years ago when you end up with ftg tokens being priced the way they were priced while there was literally no liquidity to absorb such a price on the market that means that there is no proper Mark to Market proper Market model way and of determining fair value and and so on so that's everything that we're doing and all of those matter from Trading settlements investment

research back testing and all of those use cases that we don't address from a software solution infrastructure which is whatever is doing super well for instance and and pro and apple and other actors we focus on the data it's so kind of you to uh to help the pitch of your co-panelists or us into to put in a good word um and their recognition so like I can imagine all the exciting daughter you were you were staying on chain yesterday or I seen I'm sure you were uh glued to the screens like like many of us um the next question is really around the the challenges and the con the main

constraints when institutions come into the crypto world and they want to trade digital assets then then what are the the main adoption breaks according to you guys uh what is holding institutions back to to jump full in um Laila and Alphonse I can jump in on this one I mean I think breaking into crypto there's multiple pieces that come with it first you know it's having the expertise and then you know the the foundation and with that it's really choosing the right partner so understanding um how to select the right Partners to ensure a smooth and painful pain-free operation uh for example we use kaiko

for our pricing and billing I mean in order to not only manage our own internal systems but also to make sure that our clients are being priced accordingly and that the rates that they're seeing on on the data that they hold or the assets they store are in line with what we see so it's important to have the right foundation to choose the right Partners so then you can focus on your corporate business which is um you know whatever it may be whether you're an exchange a custodian a corporate Etc so I think that if you have the right foundation and the right infrastructure behind you your operations are going to be much more easier and you can focus on that Core Business uh with uh much better mindset yeah pretty much enabling uh the the

institution to focus on what they are good at and then and then yeah freeing them up uh freeing time up for them um our phones anything else you you would like to add thanks so much Lila yeah I mean yeah I totally agree on the partner selection side of things um I think in general institutions come to us and they say hey I am trying to either launch new services and crypto that I previously launched in FX equities Etc or I'm trying to run a similar strategy from a buy side perspective but do this in crypto and there's just the basic questions of like how the heck do I do this right I want to run this strategy across 100 coins which providers do I

need to connect to to actually get a breadth of coin support in order to run the strategy efficiently and have some redundancy and resiliency and diversity of uh of counterparties um there's also the question around how do I connect this to my existing systems right how do I get my infosec compliance and risk teams comfortable and so a lot of this turns into this sort of Education phase and so you know we're doing our best on our side um to help educate those those customers and obviously to button ourselves up and hold ourselves to really high standards and I think everyone on this panel is is certainly doing the same but that's a key part of it is finding those key partners and identifying the right ones to align yourself with and being pointed

in the right direction because the reality is you'll likely need to interact with not just one or two but maybe four five six seven Partners in the space to be successful super thanks so much uh we have a question in the meantime from their seal by the way we we had over 200 sign ups and then hopefully more people are joining along along uh the way of or do the um during the the session of today and there so uh we will answer your question live so the question goes as following if a crypto company or a 3-5 company sorry trade fight company approach to help to

set up an offer to their clients any kind of crypto products what would be the main step and I think now personally this question was answered because the working with the right Partners in Vendor selection but what else uh what else should the trade fight company uh consider of course this is really depending on what they want to do but if I mean if I may jumping on this one the first thing also that needs to be taken into account is current macros beyond what happens in the in the crypto space so tradify uh looking into okay in innovating and entering the space for a

lot of strategic reason but there is also a search for Capital efficiency right now so it costs effective Solutions are important and I think that's where everything that was said about the right partnership and so on is being approached by through a horrid name which is supplier risk management and I think that that is most probably the one angle that is the most important because on the one hand um you cannot have real good sustainable suppliers like all the people on this panel or you and at the same time looking for the cheapest and and not sustainable will actually acquisition of solutions and and so on so that's where

today there is a balance that is being uh that is being set because at some point um people have been onto a growth at all cost spree which means growth at all cost means okay I'm gonna go for having stuff for free I'm gonna cut prices I'm gonna do anything to acquire logos but from a traditional Finance institution point of view that means that you're actually subsidizing the price and what and revenue to your capital investment from your VCS and for whoever has invested in company because at some point that has a cost so growth after all cost becomes almost a race to the bottom so that's where there needs to be work and and and

everything that we're doing and saying about partnership and so on I think is the most important thing of this bear Market because at the end of the day only the sustainable businesses and growth will make it and if I may just jump in my very quick answer to what the trade fire institution should do they want to set up a quick crypto offering for their customers is figure out whether they actually want to manipulate the crypto or not there's really two approaches you can take the first approach is whether you do it with providers no it's you actually have some rule as a financial intermediary in which case you're going to have to figure out a lot of things around regulation and the other step is well I could just white label you know somebody else and that the offering

might be less unique but maybe it's quicker to Market and so I think that's like the main questions about strategy that's the first step super I see um everyone um of the from the panelists were nodding so uh I think there is a big agreement here would you Oliver and just to just to um make the audience a bit more aware of of really what upload does and also how um typically Ledger Enterprise operates or who are the clients maybe you guys can give a bit more color uh before we we move on to other questions and and specifically which areas do your

customers like skills in sure I'm happy to start on this one as well so at Applause service institutions at every step of their journey into the the crypto space so that means that goes from you know novices right to the most experienced digital asset Traders so we'll have crypto native funds um trading firms will have some fintech some traditional hedge funds some alternative fund managers Banks family offices it's quite it's quite Broad and because it's broad it means that the skills that they need the skills where we kind of you know fit in at some of the Lego bricks it's super different between the different customers so in

some contexts they'll really be looking to optimize one part of their whole process that's really the case with no more sophisticated customers and then you'll have other smaller size customers that will use us as their One-Stop shop and what they're looking for is essentially an operations team where there are outsourced operations team it's all automated and then you'll have other customers who are really looking to us because what they're lacking is the Regulatory know-how and so they're trying to figure out how to set up their operations in a compliant way and they know that by using us there's that stamp of approval from The Regulators so it really depends on how advanced they are on their Journey for just last I'm fairly certain that the other people on the panel have had the same experience as well

yeah I mean I'll build off of that I think that it's hard to pinpoint um a skill that's that's lacking I'm not sure that that's fair to say and if there's any clients on the call there's you're perfectly skilled well skill set um I think but it goes back to what what Oliver was saying and also also what Alphonse was saying a little bit earlier um a lot of the time you know there's a um an educational Gap our clients um at Ledger Enterprise we have exchanges custodians um corporations minors OTC desks trading platforms um we have really crypto native so deep Tech guys and then we also have novices that you know we have corporations launching nft strategies that you know

people have literally like web3 for dummies next to their their laptop so um there there is an educational Gap in terms of um understanding what strategy they want to implement and then how to best do it and best practices within within the industry so you know what we try to solve for is is replicate what we see other clients that have been successful doing and and share that knowledge with new clients that we bring on or you know new clients that we're talking to explaining how to best put forth some of these strategies um and then of course you know I think when we're speaking to prospects and or new clients you know often we find out that they don't understand their own

pain points um they're not able to identify the gaps in their business it's for example you know security is a very complex topic and a lot of clients or particularly large organizations don't have the luxury of spending too much time or even you know small organizations to that matter don't have the luxury of spending too much time on figuring out the intricacies of you know what security actually means and so it's important to take the approach from you know our stand point to educate them on you know what they're doing currently where the gaps are in their current business model and then try and solve for those um hopefully solve for those gaps the little sister the little brother of

security like like I said is risk management and essentially what Leisure has been doing and being super vocal on for the past years is risk and and be careful and know your risk and and everything and that's the whole risk management we've seen that in the May cycle now same is all about risk management that we need to everybody needs to step up our games not your keys not your coins this never gets old right crypto one-on-one but it is it applies um cool so maybe before we take a question from the audience then

um you guys uh alluded a bit to to the buy versus build so institutions shouldn't shouldn't try to to build internally um the infrastructure because there are so many well equipped and adequate providers who who really help you um help you spare time and uh add so much expertise to what you're trying to do so because crypto has so many layers of complexity what is your main uh argumentation for for the buy case versus the build case yeah I can take that um so I guess my view would be focus on

your Alpha and your expertise so if your Alpha comes from being the fastest to The Exchange and you're a high frequency Trader for example build that connectivity that's going to be your Edge but if your Alpha comes from a service you provide or your distribution channels or from a specific strategy that you run then Outsource the commoditize things because actually the commoditized things in traditional markets are even more complex and difficult to build and maintain in crypto so let us deal with the headaches the apis the connectivity the guise and then the last thing is really just around kind of what are your timelines um if you want that easy fast path to Market buying is always going to be your sort of best approach I mean for us you

know we're onboarding buy and sell side clients every day we have clients on the buy side that sign and are up and trading within days and on the sell side that are up and offering brokerage services to their clients uh sort of in a Restless principal fashion over API or over GUI within weeks in some cases so that's also a consideration to definitely think about if I may add on this so from our very narrow experience at Apple what we've been noticing is that at this stage um cell site like big sell side firms you know like big Banks or very big Brokers they're not even trying to rebuild the whole thing themselves but they they're mainly going to be shopping for multiple vendors and building some kind of big like internal solution with

multiple vendors so that they have redundancy and that's what I've been noticing so far and then on the other hand you look at like smaller sell side or any type of Bio site to be honest and at this stage they're really going mortar is the buy option and that's what we generally advertise because they're I mean South Side is Alpha as you were putting it alfonsi might come from you know how different their own services but on the buy side it's not about service it's not about infrastructure it's purely about their investment strategy so two three years ago they were still some of them were saying wow we're going to build our own stuff at this stage that doesn't even seem to be an option anymore super urgent thanks so much for chiming in there Oliver

um do we have questions from the audience please feel free to you can also just raise your hand and we will unmute you unmute you and you can ask your question live if you wish uh otherwise we will just move on and and we really can't have a conversation about institutional crypto adoption without uh just unpacking a bit what happened yesterday um right and touch base on that but the bed is before there is a question for you I will read it out loud can you please badly celebrate on the risk management capabilities at kaiku do they revolver and treat fight techniques or are they more on-chain uh specific so what we do for instance at Keiko and

he is leisurely put all the the the solutions and practice around risk management in portfolio and so on available as a service for anyone in any kind of client person if we take an example for instance on the liquidity comes that happened not not the recent one but the one that happened uh earlier in in the year that's a very basic absence of cash to compensate for for volatility and for for movement of the market in in very classic way of managing it at the vanilla level that's called value-adge risk so you know the movements of your portfolio you have a

level of volatility that is associated to it and you get a bundle and provision an amount of cash to compensate for that if we look at currently traditional Finance the whole clearing is migrating now today in equity stocks and so on from the pure evaluation together risk model at clearing level so it's it's literally extremely classic and that's the thing that doesn't exist at all currently or is not deployed at scale in crypto in the very post-processing I'm not talking about investment strategy I'm talking about middle office back office oh saying okay we need to have risk management policies Associated to those so what we are doing on a daily basis is putting out there

the solution that okay you don't want to build the value at risk model then you have a solution that actually to even if you don't want to act on it now measure it measure it and look at it and it's the same when it comes to environment Clause it's the same when it comes to implied bullets region and pricing options is the same and implies you can also be used as a monetization tool by the way because you can monetize implied volatility and it can also be used as all of these tools and data because we look at it from a data perspective all of these are extremely classic when it comes to traditional finance and their Inception in the crypto ecosystem thanks so much Amit I think your

question was was answered so I will I would just uh mark it as Oxford and Hillary has a question do uh or how do you approach the uncertainty around institutional trust in the space considering the events that have transpired over the past few days and months and will the trust from institutions be be gone after yesterday what do you guys think what is what we can do better and um and and make sure that this doesn't repeat itself I can jump in on this one I mean I think you know people have a a legitimate reason to worry and and you know if if

one of the largest centralized exchanges ended up in financial difficulties then you have to think about you know where does your money lie uh with and with whom and I think that you know it we go back to what we said just in the beginning you know not your keys not your crypto um that's you know on the retail side of course we saw the sales of Ledger Nanos you know triple uh in the past couple days because of what unfolded so great for you know grateful the retail investor or for us because that's an educational piece you have to be aware of where you're you know where your money actually sits and then on the institutional side you also have to be cognizant of you know how is that money being managed at Ledger you know we have um we we say security at scale so the

idea is making sure that there's governance in place to ensure that there's there's no single point of failure and that when those transactions are happening no matter what size um you know they're the right triggers in place to ensure that they can and should happen so I think it's important that when you look from institutional standpoint um how the money is being transferred transacted where it's going who's signing off on it and making sure that uh where it sits is in a secure place um that is not subject to you know either Market manipulation as we saw earlier this year um or you know fall victim to a centralized um body you know in financial

difficulties so it's it's really important to do your due diligence and make sure you understand exactly where your money sits thanks so much Leila um someone else wants to what's to chime in or is there something to add or maybe Oliver absolutely I mean you know if you look at traditional Finance it's unsurprising to see consultation in the exchange space you know you probably end up with like one major exchange and then like a second with like 30 of the market share that a contender that's coming up with 10 that's what got in the states for example now it came out as a surprise that FTX you know failed the way they did came as a surprise for everyone I mean we'd be mod we've been

monitoring the situation for a few days at Apple but still two weeks ago three weeks ago for it to tell and this will just slightly speed up the pace of Regulation which until in turn will reassure institutional investors I mean the FTX situation sure institutional investors will probably not try to use FTX or even binance more after this who knows but regulation is always positive for these types of players so that's heartache yeah and just to add on that I think you know there are a ton of providers out here doing things right buttoning themselves up from a risk management um I think with sped up regulation like Oliver you're mentioning uh we will also see a lot of the larger traditional

players potentially use this and view this as an opportunity to come in um they have great reputations they have built these services at the highest standard and scale uh historically and I think they have an opportunity to come in and take market share and you know we've anecdotally been working with a few of them to help them build Services I think most of them view this as an opportunity at the same time this doesn't mean that there aren't high quality incumbent providers that will also continue to gain share from this as well and benefit from this and I think it's again going to be a gravitation towards those highest quality service providers but also maybe some additional diversification of how you think about your counterparty risk so maybe if you were coming into the space and you know

thinking about trading with one or two players maybe now it's three or four and it's risk factors into those risk management decisions thanks so much for chiming in all phones and really good really good points uh across the board from everyone thanks so much so the next question is that since the the company represent was founded and you have been working with over these various Capital markets players or or FX trading companies what are the major lessons you and the founders of the company learned along the way working with these institutions I know that some of the points may may be

um the ones which were already mentioned but but yeah if some something else comes to mind that what what did you learn along the years um with dealing traditional financial institutions then then it's great if you can add or share happy to chime in briefly I think you know touched on this a little bit but um I think a key lesson that we learned is you know you can't just Jam a traditional system into crypto um so take an fx system for example we come from uh building these high performance FX systems we realize that you kind of needed to build this from

the ground up to really make sure it's performant can kind of handle a lot of the uh new challenges of crypto right there's Precision that's vastly different the symbology is different and not standardized there's this whole notion of exchange fees and crypto and sometimes exchanges are charging fees and dollars other times they're charging in uh in uh in crypto and it just creates a whole host of kind of headaches and I think it's also don't underestimate sort of the time that it would take to build these systems um and to do it really right at the highest standards of security the same goes for custody I mean we learned this ourselves I think if you asked our CTO how long it would have taken to build Talos when he first started he'd probably have said

maybe nine months or a year I think it took us maybe two before we were really comfortable letting institutions interact with it because we didn't feel like it truly met the same standards uh that they would grow accustomed to that had grown accustomed to um so I think these are all just considerations uh there's just a lot more behind the scenes that needs to be tackled though the industry is definitely getting better and uh from a technology perspective more reliable for yeah I'd also add on top of that I agree completely without funds I think that a lot of these traffic companies move into the crypto space and they come with their in-house infrastructure and they attempt to sort of replicate what they've done and and and then move it into the crypto space and it's very

difficult I mean you know particularly with these large players they and even to what Oliver was saying before on the South Side you have like you know a conglomerate of providers or in-house Solutions which can become a beautiful mess and then maintaining the in that solution that we've built for the tradify space and and scaling it to crypto is really difficult and on top of that you're subject to much more regulation when you come in um you know from a different standpoint so I I think you know that causes them to be less Nimble and Building Solutions and building new offerings so I I think that um you know I consider it a little bit of like the slow and steady burn when you see these big Trad Five Guys moving into crypto particularly expecting that they can use what they've already built and replicate it in what

is seemingly only a similar industry but not quite yeah and to piggyback on on this I think the the very very good thing that could chime out of these conversions is the fact that indeed when you look at the market crypto and trade fire and so on 80 of what is in trotify could apply to crypto and so on and however the 20 remaining 20 are structurally different so Ledger knows that through the custody like nothing to be compared with we know that through the data because essentially when we've designed our implied volatility model well the first thing you see you look at is how much

crypto is going to break FX and Equity models and it does break it very well so you can't just take uh crypto markets and try to use an efficient Equity model to just try to model the market and and and I'm pretty sure at home standard review will have similar examples happening in their early Fields so that 20 however needs also to be compensated by the fact that and a form of recognition that tri-fi will come with a certain level of standards and that level of standard whether it is through technical standards whether it is regulation because regulation is nothing else but an enforced standard and that level of standards in service slas data Training Systems compliance risk

management policies and so on that will actually help to some extent because yes there are people businesses and individuals groups being heard by what is happening in the absence of standards as well if if I may add a last point in terms of what we've observed or our lessons from you know trying to work with institutions among the years it all boils down to one essential piece of capital markets called the Clearinghouse the mere fact that there is no Clearinghouse in crypto makes every single discussion about crypto tooling and infrastructure

very difficult to have because we're not speaking the same language all the rules that exist in like you know the equity space or even the FX space they all exist because there are very big entities that are willing to take accountability risk for everyone this is not the case in crypto so when you know a trifle institutions would come to you and ask oh so you're a broker okay so like where's my custodian and then how do you connect to the Clearinghouse you're like what Clearinghouse the Clearing House is it's binance where it's us you know there's no choice so that was you know the a lot of Education around this and if I mean it's it's most probably the most structural Point what what Oliver just said like I come from an exchange and did the whole thing back in

traditional finance and and people tend to mix between Technical and business in the topic of clearing NC plus one to plus two and so on what exists in traditional Finance which is hunting trades after they executed whether it's t plus two one uh after six hours whatever the model comes from a business reason and not a technical limitation it comes from the idea of being able to deploy capital and mobilizing it after the fact so decoration of deployment of capital and mobilization of capital when you prefront you have to mobilize the capital before you report it and that is

the 100 business structural business difference between crypto and traditional markets and that is something that often when I look at the topic people say okay it's just because it's all system in traditional finance and that's it they can't do in the intraday settlement or Atomic system no it's not that they don't want to or whatever it's a real business infrastructure Market logic that has been implemented for XYZ reason now if it's a good or bad not opinionated on the topic but it's important and that drives of the 20 of difference that's maybe sixty percent of it yeah thanks so much um super good insights here and now we

looked we looked into the past if we look into the future then um how are you making it more attractive for clients to to work with you so when it comes to addressing yield generation uh then Ledger has a ledger Enterprise has a great uh offering when it comes to staking and D5 but but also curious how kaiko is addressing quantitative analytics and defy so um Lila you want to take it away yeah sure I mean the way that we're looking at it right now is simply that we're just leaning in um you know we are really approaching um yield and device strategies as as the

you know what's going to Define our next year and on from an Enterprise standpoint you know what our clients are most looking for it's that passive-yield generation or that passive income and then the ability to access and unlock new strategies that they're interested in in you know diving into um so you know by end of year we will have launched singing on five new protocols uh we're adding an entire d-app Suite Into The Ledger Enterprise platform and we're really gonna you know open up the ecosystem directly through our um SAS platform which we think is going to change the way our clients not only use us but then can interact with the ecosystem and I think that you know when we look at yield and defy it's all

about you know one different customer profile types you know is this strategy right for me is the strategy right right now um and the idea is to make it accessible for them when at the time is right and to make sure that they can simply generate yield off of the um relatively large positions position positions that they have on those proof of stake and or um you know potentially D5 capable protocols super thanks so much but this uh do you want to give the Viewpoint of kaiko and then how are you guys uh addressing D5 what products are you building in order to be able to monitor the evolution of D5 more when it comes to defy The Stance we've

taken is really around bridging and bridging by the data not necessarily bridging technically and so on why because if you look today okay you're going to look at coinbase you're going to have payroll the books trades and so on you're gonna build your stack onto that it's a lot more difficult when it comes to decentralized venues and and I call them venues because we don't know exactly yet what they'll become in the short meet long term but they have the news to some extent and those venues currently we need not to forget the roots of this blockchain is a badger so registry so once you have are records of individual and contextualized events

so if you want to build proper Market data that can be used in Back testing and so on there is a piece of work that needs to be done to take those records and make and and output Market data out of that and that's what we do so that's where how we off ramp data from the blockchain in a market data way so that tomorrow you can consume use coinbase centralized exchanges decentralized venues marked data exactly the same way obviously marketing infrastructure is not exactly the same so there are differences and in the way that that is represented in a way that as much as we can make it fungible that's one and and the second piece is

the other way around um if we want to have more resilient D5 tomorrow and a lot of people and and working a lot on the topic and successfully so far even if it's not Making Waves yet but that is most probably the future is in the tokenization space and what I mean in the tokenization space is not like issuing from one day to the other Equity tokens uh sort of security tokens and so on at scale because we know that will take time but you have a lot of player token anything existing security such as packages such as all of other actors doing that what they enable through then decentralized protocols such as maker and so on they enable to have a

tokenized version of collateral the tokenized version of assets that enable to really build Define some point at scale when they'll scale so with proper tokenized Securities real estate everything you can imagine and including by the way that's exactly what nft art Etc I have the potential to do with the additional factionalization feature to it so all of this is the very big Trend but to be able to do that you need to price these to Value these and to find a way to have data making sure that all of this is interoperable and for approval technically from software

perspective but also from a value perspective and that means data and when you look at traditional Finance well venues are concentrated like exactly like Oliver said earlier there is no 100 100 prices for the total stock it trades on one exchange and you're gonna take the price from that and and that's it which is why data is heavily monetized and that comes from from a reason so we need to find a way to bridge that world which is the complete opposite of what we have open source open data and and the whole world of War 3 but enable D5 web3 with proper Data Solutions that are compatible with both worlds and that's not an easy task

foreign rightfully so uh it's not an easy task but we get there I'm optimistic here and maybe we can take Zero's question from the audience because he's curious to know which institutions do you see getting active in crypto is it only financial players like Banks and funds or do you also start to see corporates treasury teams and I think Lila you can allude to this that it's not only financial players but but we see a bunch of other um other actors coming into the ecosystem yeah I mean we um we have seen a large influx of Corporations come into the crypto space

one from a treasury management standpoint you know corporates that are now accepting um Bitcoin and or ethereum or other um crypto and forms of payment so you know they're looking to make sure that their digital assets are secure and manage their treasury that way and they'll come to us for support and then on top of that from the corporate you know nft standpoint a lot of companies as you guys see I mean it's hard to miss in the news you see um you know Lionel Messi uh signing a deal here and uh you know whichever other pro athlete signing a deal there I think Lionel Messi was the last one I saw in my news but um you know there's pro athletes there are um there are Brands there are so many people organizations

um companies entering into the web 3 space in the nft space particularly for either branding marketing strategy and so you know crypto I wouldn't say is simply for the institutions as we think of them you know Banks exchanges custodians trading platforms Etc um but the web 3 adoption is coming um much more um globally and uh it's wild to see the adoption but fairly exciting thanks so much and I think this answer is a advanced question as well that that what does um what do decentralized exchanges and nfts play or what are the role are they playing in the in today's

world in the foreseeable future and nft is definitely ever being a massive role in in speeding up adoption and I would love to take that the last question let's enjoy this question as a closing question but but uh before that I have a question to you all a sort of a closing question but um yeah like like this one that especially in the bear market now what is what you guys pay attention to and also what is what you're excited about when it comes to your roadmap what is what what you think is going to be a a really big success and and and uh yeah just um you're you're super excited about

makes your blood boil if you can share that that is there something what what you're all looking forward to uh maybe we can start with Oliver and then um all phones Lila that is sure absolutely I mean in our case you know but look at the.com bubble you know after that a bunch of really great businesses were built in this sounds like a very generic statement but it's still what we believe you know there's now is the time to build Now's the Time to try to replace the financial system that revolves a lot on on Greed and and biased decisions and and in some cases you know things are not super Equitable so this is the right time to do it

thank you yeah totally agree with that comment um you know I think over the past couple of months we've seen some of the some of our best months ever in terms of new account growth um now naturally we're in a risk-off environment and we've seen some slowdowns in buy side volumes but the service providers are truly here and truly building and I'm sure many here on this panel can uh Echo that and confirm um and really they're building to usher in kind of the next wave of uh of Institutions and so that that's what makes me most excited and most positive about the Outlook and you know who knows how long the downturn will last but I'm confident that when we do come out of it we'll come out of it stronger and with really the high quality providers that we need to uh to usher in this next wave

thanks very much yeah I mean I'll Echo the the two guys before me I think you know Focus On Core Business keep your head down um focus on building that's certainly what we're doing at Ledger and then you know as Global head of customer success I'm of course going to say reach out to your clients you know be there to support them partner with them build with them uh you'll be stronger together when the build run comes great and and honestly I as head of product I think the the the lighter olive oil and Alphonsus would agree it's not the very big flashy announcement that actually can make you excited and and what I'm excited about is all the tiny little things that actually make sure that that whenever

you grow you grow in a sustainable fashion I'm extremely happy to see that um I don't know the block dashboard you end up with data graphs that are empowered by Geico built up by titles and that ends up on the black on the blog code and and those are very little success stories and that that is what we need to to Showcase a lot more rather than the very painful and and toxic extremely hard competition uh that actually will not serve the market and and it and honestly this is our third crypto winter we've been through two already this is the third and same for legend and and here and people need to start listening on on

the fact that if we want this market and ecosystem to grow um trying to grow too fast and the practices of the race to the bottom and so on no growth at all costs whatever you name it it's two names for the same thing um those are not gonna fly you guys are also optimistic and thanks uh so much buddies when you're saying we're mentioning the little things it's it's also a little success that you guys dedicated time today to share your your uh viewpoints and also share your knowledge with the CVA community so thanks so much for that in the cap this with provocative but playful question of joy for for the last part he's saying that he believes that we are set back

five years uh given this week's event that changed my mind um I I will also chamin I think every time something like this happens like if you think about man Cox or if you think about uh Luna we always learned something and we can can incorporate these learnings into into the future and um church I said once or Churchill used to say that never missed a good crisis so uh that that's what binance did here in a way but um yeah curious to curious to see how you guys would change Joey's mind if I may

um sure you know right now sure we're really focused on the news and so everything seems to revolve around a few big entities for crypto but let's not forget this all started from like some dude buying pizza with a lot of Bitcoin and and we got to where we are now from something that has nothing to do with exchange with financial infrastructure so I don't know if there is a place for everyone who's building stuff in the crypto space right now but for sure as the concept itself has been so useful until today that it you know a lot of good projects were born so a lot of new good projects will be born that are not exchanges not Brokers not Financial providers but just other things gorgeous thanks so much Oliver and and if bitcoin price went back five

years ago which is kind of the case today that doesn't mean that the ecosystem went uh five years ago and there is a big difference between price and value and people tend to forget about that there is value that is not always priced in and there is a very very large difference between the ecosystem today and the ecosystem five years ago spot on difference between price and value yeah that that is something to yeah I mean to Echo that if you go back five years ago none of our companies existed really I mean I think Ledger the b2c side did but Ledger Enterprise certainly didn't so um if you set us back five years ago

none of us would be here so I think that is completely correct I mean the infrastructure the ecosystem that has been built um you know you certainly can't go back to five years ago that's that's not fair we wouldn't we wouldn't be here if that was the case but on top of that I'd add you know it's more important now than ever to you know make sure that you're doing your research you're diversifying and that your assets are secure you know more than ever now today especially given the complex ecosystem spot on thanks so much anyone else has anything to add uh we we were so efficient with uh with the time um thank you for the great insights also

from Mark and I would love to put my hands together to all of you Lila alfonse Oliver badis this has been amazing and thanks so much for your time see you soon thank you thanks for having us thanks for having us bye-bye