How TAO Is Massively Undervalued

Transcript

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to AI Supercycle episode number 26. We've got Rob Greer here talking about his big bet on big Bittensor and subnets. AI Supercycle is our premier weekly AI show powered by our friends at NEAR. Check out near.com or near.ai to learn more about their AI product suite. Without further ado, let's bring Rob up. Let's get this show started. Rob Greer, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for having me on, Eddie. I appreciate it. Big big big Bittensor bull. I had James Ross in here, the co-founder of Synth earlier talking about his thesis. We kind of broke down a lot of what what Bittensor is, what what the kind of protocol stands for, etc. Today, I'd like to get a bit more kind of into the nitty-gritty from the investment side and learn more about kind of what your

vision is for decentralized training and all of what's been happening. Before we do, Rob, we'd just love a quick background, man. How'd you start your fund? How did you get into the Bittensor ecosystem? Welcome to the show, man. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. And what what preface was saying that James is a great guy and Synth is an incredible subnet. They're having some serious traction right now and love to see what they're doing with basically taking their revenue and repurchasing their alpha tokens with it. Kind of similar to the concept of In- Invidia has a ton of excess profit, Apple has a ton of excess profit, and they reap and they basically repurchase their shares. That's what some of these subnets are doing now.

Obviously, with the idea of increasing their market cap and then their Tao emissions. So, would would applaud James for that and love to see more subnets. >> going to push back on that, but first, please intro. >> Please. Let's do it. And then in terms of my background, I come from a private equity investment banking background. Became an entrepreneur a couple of years ago and and run We're one of the few funds in the world that's specifically focused on decentralized AI with you know, with preliminary exclusive focus on the Tao Bittensor ecosystem. We think this is you know, the the third big you know, the third big coin. As Mark, my partner, calls it, the third great coin.

The idea that you could decentralize intelligence just like you could decentralize finance with Ethereum and decentralize money with Bitcoin. So, that's the underlying thesis and our third partner in the mix here is Jason Calacanis. He's a member of the All-In podcast. And you know, that's the that's the three of us here. Jason is is a partner of the fund. Jason is a partner GP in Stillmark Capital alongside Jeff and myself, yeah. Wow, epic. Okay, so I'm just going to start off with the hard question. Why are these subnets not just like a glorified kind of like DeFi summer pool to ponzinomics kind of setup here? Like you you take your Tao, you stake into the subnets, then you get the subnet token back. How is this not

just like a big kind of game of being early, being first, dumping the subnet tokens, getting more Tao? Like kind of walk me through the flywheel here as you see it from the more innovative perspective. And why am I wrong? Like how is this different than just kind of traditional yield farming and staking? Yeah, look, I I one, I'm glad you said DeFi summer because I think we're on the cusp of what will probably be a DAI spring or summer. And I think it could make you know, DeFi summer look like a small little appetizer. Our kind of controversial controversial view is that decentralized AI has a much bigger TAM than DeFi. And I think we'll see it, you know, potentially orders of magnitude larger when you kind of look back 5 to 10 years in the future. I

think 5 years from now people will look back on 2026 and kind of slap their faces as if, you know, why didn't you invest in crypto AI? It was pretty obvious that the intersection of those two exponentials would produce some interesting, you know, financial outcomes. But yeah, look, I think like the, you know, Bittensor's unique in that this is disproportionately an AI ecosystem that happens to get built on top of blockchain rails. And that's that's a genuine statement. You know, the the people in the ecosystem, the developers, the investors are people that are from the AI community that are teaching themselves crypto, which is something that you've never really seen in the history of crypto before. Um I would go so far as to say that Bittensor is like the iPhone moment for crypto, where a lot of what we've seen in the history of

crypto is just pure fluff and vapor. Um I think there's a lot of pure fluff and vapor during the DeFi summer. I think previous kind of crypto AI um kind of uh enthusiasm, you know, early 2024, uh late 2024 when Trump got elected. Um the one the one interesting kind of dynamic with Bittensor is that these subnets are going to pump like Solana, you know, shitcoins. Forgive my French, but you they're actually technically sound and foundationally sound. Like these are genuinely world-class teams building decentralized AI kind of open-source breakthroughs. And so, the actual price justify the fundamentals justify the price, is what I would say about that. But I think we're going to see some pretty nice price action. At

least that's how we're positioning ourselves. So, you said Tao is like Bitcoin plus plus the subnets and that Tao in 2026 is like ETH in 2016. So, what ETH in 2016 was kind of the inception of smart contracts and this idea that wow, you could build things on chain in a programmable fashion. Right? This was a a massive breakthrough in kind of like this idea of DApps, right? Like decentralized applications. You know, if you're developer, you you could come build smart contracts. You could almost build whatever you wanted.

Does that same kind of idea apply to the subnets? Like what is the comparison from smart contracts and kind of like programmability to the AI world with what subnets actually bring to to the Bittensor ecosystem? >> Yeah, and look, I don't want to diminish Ethereum at all. I think like it's it's an incredible ecosystem and project and like Bittensor is building on the shoulders of giants of Ethereum and and and Bitcoin here. I think uh you know, what what the Bittensor founders did here was take some of the best elements of Bitcoin and Ethereum and apply it to Bittensor and apply it specifically to the AI context here. And I do think like some of the deficiencies of Bitcoin and Ethereum were addressed uh, when when Jacob Steeves and Ala were building this

ecosystem. So, when we say like Tao is the Bitcoin of AI, that's actually a factual statement. You know, it has an identical tokenomic design to Bitcoin, 21 million tokens, four-year having schedule. Uh, the first having was in uh, December of 2025. So, apples to apples of Bitcoin were March of 2013 right now, which, you know, for the Bitcoin OGs would recognize that as the beginning of what was big Bitcoin's biggest run in the history. Um, so 82x was around this time uh, for Bitcoin. And then, secondly, I say, you know, you could have kind of like an Ethereum ICO moment with Tao because you have these subnets, right?

And you could have this demand shock of people rushing in and purchasing these subnets, which is kind of similar to what happened with the ICO mania, where you needed ETH to participate in the these ICOs. So, what we could see with Tao, you know, and this is hypothetical, but our expectation is that you have a Bitcoin style supply shock intersecting with a Ethereum style ICO demand shock at the same exact time with a fast takeoff in AI. And just like stupid amounts of money, trillions of dollars around the world flooding into the AI sector.

De- Decentralized AI as a category is about 15 to 20 billion. If you just look at the three largest centralized AI labs from OpenAI, um, uh, Anthropic, and xAI is about 1.5 trillion. Uh, so I think that's like a 100x valuation delta, but that's actually an unfair comparison to what Bittensor is doing. So, everyone is probably familiar with like these Chinese open source models, which are like, you know, Kimmy and DeepSeek. Call it 90% of the quality of Opus 4.6 and 10% of the price, right? And they're trying to commoditize these frontier labs because it's, you know, uh, you know, geopolitical angle with the CCP.

Bittensor is doing that to the application layer of AI startups. So, 90% is good, 100% is good, 5 to 10% of the price. The idea is that Bittensor subnets are going to steal market share from the cursors of the world, the scale AIs of the world, all these other overvalued Silicon Valley darlings. And from a financial standpoint, you know, like a ridges for instance, subnet 62 decentralized cursor, they have a model that at least from the software engineering benchmark is at parity, like the same quality as like a cursor, but it is five times cheaper. And ridges is a $40 million market cap. Cursors is a $50 billion market cap. There's actually like a 12 of like a 1,200 times valuation difference. And so, that's not for lack of quality. It's simply because

it's information asymmetry. We're in like the Mt. Gox era of Bitcoin. It's It's like really, really difficult to purchase these subnet tokens. >> Yeah, it is. But as soon as like Robinhood, Coinbase has these subnet tokens, there's going to be a flood of retail capital into this. And um yeah, obviously we're That's why we're positioning ourselves and so excited here. Yeah, I mean, you've said this kind of AGI or this you know, transition towards intelligence is going to be not just one model, this kind of economic growth of all these subnets.

There's a couple here that I wanted to ask you about. Shoots, Templar, Score, some of these others. Could you just walk us through from more of like a fundamentals perspective, like what some of the leading subnets that you're either in invested in or highly interested in are actually doing? Because I think you present a really compelling kind of comparative and comparable to the kind of closed source traditional AI space. But what are some of the actual subnets that you are actually excited about from a product and a team adoption perspective and from a kind of fundamental value creation perspective.

I'm really excited about the innovation that's coming out of these subnets, like genuine world-class breakthroughs. It just like so happens that um they're going viral within niche corners of AI, which is why like crypto Twitter is not waking up to this quite yet. Um but at some point they will. You know, our expectation is that retail is going to be purchasing Tao as the Bitcoin of AI, and then people like us, you know, that the institutional money is actually going to be, you know, diving deeper into to, you know, kind of the brilliance that it that is Tao. But, you know, Shutes is incredible, right? You know uh I I believe that they're, you know, the inference layer for the largest number of tokens in the entire world uh for open-source models. So, uh it, you know, a decent chunk of Silicon Valley startups are probably running on Shutes,

and they don't even realize that Tao is on the back end of this. So, Tao is when people say that this is the Linux of AI, that's that's what they mean. You know, Bittensor is powering just that single subnet, right? And uh Shutes, I think, is is like a a core blue-chip asset in Bittensor, and always will be because Shutes is probably powering a significant percentage of Silicon Valley. But, guess what? Other subnets on Bittensor are leveraging Shutes, as well. And Shutes will probably power a significant portion of the Bittensor economy. So, like these subnets are selling external to Bittensor and internal to Bittensor. They have revenue in the form of bit Tao emissions, and then they have USD revenue. Um and that allows them to underprice in AWS. So, for instance, with Shutes, 85% cheaper

than AWS for the same exact quality and less downtime. So, you know, hot take, you know, when when AWS servers are going down because the Iran war, Shutes is having no downtime. Uh so, it's it's actually a superior product. People just have to wake up to that, you know, to it as an available inference option. And then, um you know, Score is awesome, you know, uh sports prediction. We We recently announced that, um you know, they're they're a portfolio company of ours. Uh you know, within the sports context and in vision context. We like the subnets that are kind of, uh you know, Doc Docs teams, we've met them in person, they have real revenue, they have enterprise customers, but they also have a subnet that is going to be comprehensible to retail capital when it comes in, right? Because you could have

subnets that are doing like genuinely significant things technically, but if retail doesn't like it, then the capital's not going to flow there versus oh, like Bittensor's sports prediction subnet, I get that. I'm going to buy that, you know. So, uh trying to position ourselves accordingly there. Um and then Templar obviously is is is an incredible breakthrough. This was the decentrali- This was the deep seek moment for decentralized AI. And, you know, this came out of Bittensor. Uh the idea that you could train a 72 billion parameter model with nodes across the world, that's incredible.

Um and what's really exciting is the exponential they're on. I believe they were training about 1 billion parameter models, you know, about a year ago, 6 to 12 months ago, and then they've gone to 72. And so, what makes us excited for that in the coming years is that Bitcoin is the world's largest supercomputer by 500 times. Why couldn't that story play out with GPUs? Why Why couldn't that story play out with decentralized training? It's just an engineering problem to stitch millions, tens of millions of GPUs across the world and use those in a coordinated fashion to train a model. And so, decentralized AI models pro- training will probably catch up to the open-source frontier at some point and then potentially even the closed-source frontier. And that just a single Bittensor subnet of what of you know, and the idea is that there will be

many thousands in the coming years. It's an entire economy. Yeah. If a hater or a person who wanted to criticize the tokenomic structure and the economics of Bittensor was to say that it's too inflationary and that it's going to be a hard time to fight the inflation of the Tao token itself, how would you answer to that to an investor who wants to understand the plans to be able to actually accommodate the inflation schedule. All right, if if I'm an institutional allocator, I'm I'm looking at this. I'm seeing supply coming on the market. Obviously, we've got dynamic Tao subnet expansions coming, but still this kind of inflation question will come up. How do you kind

of address the inflation of BitTensor the Tao token itself? I mean, that person would also be you know, taking issue with the Bitcoin tokenomic design. So, that's the short answer to that question, right? So, that's a pretty hot take. I think that's pretty controversial. And I would debate that point any at any point. But, I think like the Tao emissions and tokenomic design, I believe is a qualitative update over Bitcoin because you're actually shutting shuttling emissions to the subnets which are proof of useful work. It's proof of intelligence. So, what Bitcoin got right is that you can incentivize people across the world to donate electricity to a network and incentivize them to do these SHA-256 math problems. And

ultimately, it's it's you know, energy expenditure. And it secures the global monetary ledger. With with BitTensor, they're like, "Okay, well, why can't we just make the incentive mechanism programmable? So that, you know, a weather prediction subnet could say, 'Hey, miners, all you GPUs around the world, all you AI devs that have an extra Nvidia chip, we're going to reward you if you can submit a model that best predicts weather patterns.' And the winning miner gets rewarded with with Tao, you know, these alpha tokens. What ends up happening is through this ruthless competition, you end up getting best-in-class weather prediction models. And then the subnets could build a business around

that. So, these subnets are producing engines and then the subnet teams build a car around those engines. And you know, obviously, then USD revenue comes into the ecosystem. And so, the idea is basically that the miners are an outsourced AI developer team and the network pays for it. And so if you're a, you know, a a brilliant developer in Poland, um, are you going to go to Silicon Valley and go to Y Combinator and get diluted equity funding? Or are you going to start a subnet on Bittensor where the miners are your AI dev team which you don't even have to pay for? Uh, I think obviously you choose Bittensor and then all of the market cap built from all of those subnets accrues to the token Tao because the only way you can get access to the

alpha tokens is by first purchasing Tao. Um, and I think that's like the upgrade over Ethereum, right? Because like the whole controversy over Ethereum is that like all these layer twos, like what is the value accrual to ETH, right? Whereas with Tao, um, you have to purchase Tao first. And it's really interesting positive sum game too because Templar pops off and that increases the the Tao price and then all the other subnets are like that's awesome because that benefits their subnet and their emissions. So you actually have subnets rooting for other subnets. It's a positive sum game. I think this is the most brilliant tokenomic design in the history of crypto and I think a lot of people would agree with me on that.

What do you think is the biggest misconception of the Bittensor ecosystem? What do people constantly get wrong about the design, about the product, about the actual blockchain or the subnets themselves? What are people constantly getting wrong and and how do we kind of reframe this misre- mis- representation or just mis- kind of like understanding here? >> Yeah, no, it's interesting. Like I have a lot of these investor conversations, you know, we're talking to like family offices and uh, fund of funds and, you know, ultra high net worth individuals and it's the recurring thing is like I've heard of Tao, you know, that's a top 50 crypto token. It's actually the only thing in the top 50 that's that's AI and not like DeFi or anything else which is which is interesting. Um, but

they haven't like kind of gone deeper. They haven't peeled back the onion that is Tao. And Tao is admittedly extremely complex. You know, Barry Silver, obviously OG Bitcoin guy, he likes to say, uh you know, back in the early 2010s, you ask 10 people to describe Bitcoin, you get like 17 different answers, right? And that issue is even harder with Tao because it's like it's like describing Bitcoin, but then you have all these subnets on top of it. And that's what I mean when you say when I said like yesterday like Bitcoin equal Bitcoin their Tao equals Bitcoin plus subnets. Like that that's what I actually meant. So, it's extremely complex uh and we're trying to we're trying to kind of like dumb it down. Um and I think like in the in the fullness of time it'll it'll be it'll be made easier. But, um

misconception um I don't know. I mean, I think I think I think like just the complexity of the ecosystem is um is is kind of a barrier to entry and I really think that's what's been weighing down the Tao price than anything else. I think if if people understood Tao and what was happening here, uh it would be many many multiples higher even without any change in the ecosystem uh from from where it is currently. Um but, you know, people are starting to wake up and uh the right people are starting to wake up. For instance, you know, Jason, our partner um Chamath and Jensen Wang were were on stage filming an all-in podcast on on Thursday at Nvidia's GTC event and uh Chamath was actually applauding the the decentralized training run from Templar.

Um and so, the the right people are waking up to this and like if you kind of just look at the standard adoption curve of any new technology, we're in the early adopter stage, which is generally when when you want to be deploying capital. Yeah. So, the way that I've kind of thought about it is is Tao is like your is like your is like your powdery and you've got all these, you know, 128 subnets or something. I kind of think of it as like liquid venture within the kind of BitTensor ecosystem. So, I'm sure there's going to be like a power law of returns. I mean, there's probably already been such that like these things started, you know, anywhere from under a million in in total market cap, you know, across like the smaller subnets all the way up to

about a hundred million I think is where shoots and Templar are kind of oscillating around now. And then basically as a TAO holder you want to basically be looking to uh invest into these subnets as almost like a a liquid venture bet with teams as you said that are docs, have clear product market fit, clear revenue, clear adoption and basically be an early supporter of these of these subnets, stake your stake your TAO, get the token back, you know, hold some, sell some, whatever it is that you want to do, and basically be thinking about kind of like, yeah, TAO is like your Bitcoin or your Ethereum, and then these subnets is like these liquid venture plays that you want to allocate to. Is that like the right way to think about it?

Think about it. >> Okay. By definition Stillwater Capital our fund is a liquid venture fund. And so, you know, these are liquid tokens. So, like, you know, we're structured as a hedge fund, but, you know, we're taking a venture capital style approach to these subnets and having medium to long-term holds in them. And you know, power law absolutely. I would expect that, you know, the top 10% of subnets will drive 90% of the outcomes here. The success of TAO is going to be the success of subnets for sure. And the basis of our fund is to allocate in in in size to to what we think are going to be the blue chip subnets of tomorrow to into the Uber, the Amazon that is getting built on top of TAO. You know, TAO is the internet of intelligence. You know, the idea is that intelligence is

going to be as widespread and abundant as information is. No single government or corporation is going to control it, and you need an internet to organize all of this intelligence just like the World Wide Web emerged to you know, to organize the world's information. And there's one thing you said earlier which is, I don't think there's going to be a single god model coming out of one of these corporate labs. As Balaji says, it's it's a bizarre of of AI, which means, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of different models. And if if you look closely enough, that starts to sound like BitTensor in a couple of years. Thousands, tens of thousands of different subnets. Subnets equals websites. That's the way to think about that analogy. But, um yeah, at our fund at our fund, you know, the the way to think about Tao, to answer your question

directly, is that this is basically an S&P 500. You buy Tao and you get exposed to this kind of economy of decentralized AI startups. But, if you want to take some risk, and if you have, you know, alpha, then participate in the subnets, cuz you can outperform Tao, maybe even meaningfully. So, in our fund, you know, we we already are significantly outperforming Tao. And, um you know, we expect to do many multiples of Tao in our fund. At least, that's what we're underwriting to. Well, Rob, this is an amazing kind of concoction that's brewing because all of the market, especially in digital assets, kind of isn't getting exposure to the AI kind of super cycle, let's say, right? Like, it's happening. And it's hasn't been easy to get exposure. You get an SPV for

Anthropic at 380 bill through some sketchy, you know, pooling thing, and you have to sign, and who knows if you ever get those shares. It was impossible to get any exposure into any of these large companies. And now those valuations have kind of ballooned to such a level that it's like for any average investor, it just doesn't make any sense. I mean, you're going to bet on these Yeah, the only thing I Right? The thing I would say is that like I think Tao is the best value in the world. I think it's the best value in crypto, and it's the best value in AI. Okay, well, you're a crazy mega bull. I was kind of getting there, but like, yeah, it's an it's an investment opportunity to get exposure to AI. Yeah. Right? In a world that's hard to get decent exposure

to AI. Yeah, I mean, decentralized AI, and specifically BitTensor, could be existentially disruptive to all these corporate labs, and certainly the startups startups that are that are raising at tens of billions of dollars of valuation with just a a couple of teams that spun out from Open AI. That and yeah, I mean the frontier of decentralized AI is 3 billion. Right? And so like from a risk-return standpoint, I think like Tao is way better than punting money into Open AI at 850 billion, right? Like where are their moats, right? If if AGI is open source and sitting locally on everyone's computers, where's the moat?

I don't get it. You know, and I would rather put my money into the decentralized AI infrastructure that that Tao is building. I actually think that people in retail are going to be buying Tao as the Bitcoin of AI. That's going to be the narrative. And when AI is displacing white-collar jobs in large sums in the coming years, I think people will be looking to Tao as as an investment of hope. Um because I think most people would agree that a world where intelligence is decentralized and cheap and abundant is far better than a world of, you know, corporations controlling AI. Um that seems much higher probability of producing, you know, a dystopic outcome for humans versus the the Tao vision. Um and so when people start to wake up to Tao, I

think, you know, that that's what's going to happen. So you would say that, you you know, Tao is probably the most mispriced asset in crypto right now. I think no doubt. >> I think BitTensor is one of the most important inventions in the history of humanity. I I do believe that because it's just it's just producing these these digital commodities, right? So like Bitcoin is a digital commodity just in the form of money. BitTensor is producing dozens and eventually hundreds and thousands of them. Decentralized drug discovery, inference, all these things. I I mean, I I've been on the record saying like I think this is going to be a trillion-dollar ecosystem by 2030 because 5 years in AI land right now, 5 years in the future is is like an eternity. I think we're going to see

some some price outcomes and things happen over the next 5 years unlike anything we've ever seen in the history of financial markets. And Tao feels like one of the the safe havens where you can invest, right? Like in the equity markets right now, the whole issue is that people can't price terminal value. You know, like how are you going to price salesforce at a 30x PE multiple when you don't know if they're going to have a business in 5 years because there's no modes in software. Um so I think at some point people are going to wake up and see Tao as that as that hedge. You know, by investing in Tao, you're actually investing in the future of AI.

And is the core team of Bittensor, you've met them I I assume and, you know, seen a lot of their work and grow. Like where are they most, you know, kind of focused on or like what are they doing now? Like how does that work with the subnets? I don't think they work directly with the subnets. Those are their own team. So what is like the Bittensor core team actually working on on the road map for 2026 from the tech side, from the kind of intelligence side? Like what's actually happening there? You know, I would say like the the the people at the pinnacle of Bittensor, you know, the OGs are not only some of the smartest people I've ever met in my entire life, but also some of the some of the most ethical and and quality people I've ever met in my life. Like

these are not, you know, capitalists. These are people that genuinely want to decentralize intelligence for diligence for the benefit of humanity. Const, Jacob Stevens, and then Ala are the co-founders of Bittensor. Ala is, I believe, an AI PhD and Jacob Stevens was working at Google DeepMind underneath Const in the mid-2010s before the transformer paper. And he had the foresight to say, "Hey, can we apply what Bitcoin got right and apply that to to AI?" That was 10 years ago. Um and it's crazy that, um you know, people like Andre Karpathy are now arriving at the conclusion that the the the next step in AI research is actually going to be more decentralized research.

Um so Karpathy was on a podcast the other day where he was describing Bittensor one-to-one without realizing Bittensor exists. Um so, yeah, I think like in terms of the OpenTensor Foundation, um Bittensor is going to be a geopolitically significant ecosystem uh probably before too long. I think, you know, sovereign countries around the world that are not named the United States or China, I think will probably be running on Tao and the models on Tao um as part of the sovereign AI play. They're not going to be running on Anthropic or Deep Seek models. I think that's that's for sure. Um and so, yeah, I mean, I I I think that's that's how I think about it. And so, like the as a result, the the OpenTensor Foundation is disbanding. So, Jacob

Steeves is probably the closest thing to Vitalik Buterin for Tao, and he's actually he's stepped away from OpenTensor. He's building his own subnets. So, he's actually building in the ecosystem rather than on the ecosystem. And um yeah, so they're actually taking It was kind of like a Satoshi moment where they're taking a step towards uh Bitcoin-level decentralization. I think it's admirable. And Rob, when it comes to new subnets launching, how does one get in the loop on this? Where where's the information for new subnets and what is the process to for price discovery on a new subnet, right? Like how how just like just be straight up, how insider is it? Like or how fair is it? What is the price

discovery and and kind of launch process of a new sub of a new subnet? I anticipate there are going to be more and more coming out, probably more and more better ones. Absolutely. What does that look like? Yeah, like on on the number of subnets is currently 128, so it's 32, 64, 128. We'll see if they go to 256. I think it's a function of the Tao price and the US dollar value of Tao emissions, right? With with Tao at a $3 billion ecosystem, that's probably sufficient for 128 subnets uh to have their funding to kind of grow their teams. But you could imagine a scenario where Tao rips a quick 5x, and uh you you could actually accommodate more subnets in the ecosystem as a result of that.

Um and so I think that's that's what's likely to happen. Um and then yeah, like the economic incentives to mine on Bittensor and to build subnets on Bittensor, I think reaches the point where you're going to start getting defections from um potentially centralized AI labs because you can make more money and you can mine Bittensor, you know, um you know, sipping a pina colada in Bali. You know, if >> You think you think Bittensor is going to poach Open AI employees? Uh I don't think they're going to poach Open AI employees. I think Open AI employees and you know, other centralized labs are actually going to willingly, They're going to join. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz they're already flushed with their equity and they could just go to Brazil and they could mine Bittensor subnets, you know?

Um or you could build a subnet on Bittensor yourself. Um and so when that starts happening, that's that's when the real flywheel is going to take effect. Like everything we've seen with Tao recently is just like a a small little appetizer compared to what's to come. I think what what happens is like, you know, the crypto AI season comes again. Bit- Bittensor's likely the catalyst for that. Tao price goes up, more subnets, more innovation, Tao price goes up. And that never stops, you know? And so I think it's going to get pretty explosive here. It's going to be a fun ride in the coming years. Never stops is just not how markets work. But what's your time frame on this? What's your >> AI supercycle podcast. Why wouldn't there be a supercycle?

I mean, there is an infinite CAPEX right now on AI. Yeah, and all that CAPEX is going to converge on Tao because those GPUs contributing them to the Bittensor ecosystem in the coming years will be a far higher ROI than contributing it for for any other use case, just like the same happened with CPUs and ASICs with Bitcoin. So I actually think like, my hot take would be like all the CAPEX around the world right now from the hyperscalers, they're actually just bootstrapping what will be compute that goes to Bittensor in the coming years. And from a ethos perspective and from a just a pure kind of understanding of how these technologies work with large techno corps and the data sharing and the privacy and all of the kind of ins

and outs that go in. I think there's also like a big ethos kind of emotional attachment to this idea of decentralized AI just from the perspective of you don't want Altman and Zuck and whomever else to be controlling the future of the humanoid robotic AI VR kind of physical and digital reality that we're living in. You want that to be far more distributed and far more equal and fair at at the very least. So, I think that there's something there as well for BitTensor and and for Tao.

Sure. Yeah. >> That's kind of why it is, I think. >> Yeah, I mean and that describe, you know, that explains why such a significant percentage of Tao is staked to the ecosystem and just doesn't move. Um and I think that's just going to play out even if Tao, you know, even even as Tao goes up in price. Um yeah, I think like decentralizing intelligence is the most most important thing um of all time. >> Well, yeah, it's a mission-driven like Yeah. counterweight to the fiat uh currency and Federal Reserve kind of printing money recklessly. And then Ethereum emerges as a counterweight to Wall Street. Um and BitTensor is is emerging as a counterweight to the mag seven and specifically corporate AI labs. Um but like you and I, Andy, we're going to in our lifetimes are going to live through

a technological singularity. Uh and there's going to be an intelligence explosion uh we're not going to be the apex intelligence on this planet by 2030. So, I think it's like very important that, you know, AI is distributed um instead of being weaponized uh by by a corporate lab in the coming years. Um that that sounds pretty terrifying. But I don't think it's going to happen and I think it's going to be because of Tao. Rob Greer, thanks for spending some time with us today. Safe travels to New York. And I'd love to do it again. Love to see where we're now going to be tracking the big tensor ecosystem and the subnets.

It's part of the show here. I think that this this is going to give people something that they want to learn about and get access to as far as upside investment opportunity for this AI trade. As I said, I mean, it's been hard to get exposure to it unless you're in SF, unless you're very well connected, unless you're very well capitalized. It's clearly different here. You have a lot of very very very bullish takes. I probably have a bit more of a moderate tone here, but it's always good to hear from you and I'm glad that we got your perspective today. Yeah, thanks, man. And you know, any anyone can kind of reach out, book a call stillcorecapital.com.

If you're an accredited investor, I'm happy to talk about Tao anytime. And we have some thought pieces coming out regularly. I think it's @stillcorecap on X. So, feel free to read our content and you know, looking forward to doing this again Andy. Guys, check him out at rob_svr. This has been AI Supercycle episode number 26 live from the Empire State Building here in New York City. Huge week for DAS. Rob, won't let you go, man. See you soon, all right? >> Thanks, man. I appreciate it.