How MegaETH Enables Real-Time Apps on Ethereum

Transcript

what's kind of the origin of Mega East sure sure suspense suspense man don't lie to us right now it's called Mega E I feel like it's very clear that we're Mega bullish on theerum what's going on guys welcome back to the rollup welcome to a chain abstraction paloa where we just wrapped up an epic one-day marathon in the heart of New York City diving deep into chain abstraction with some of the top teams in crypto trust me this series is packed with insights laughs and a few surprises you won't want to shout out to omn network for helping to put this together with their upcoming main net soon targeting the interoperability and ux problem that we're currently facing in the ethereum and majer ecosystem we really enjoyed this series and looking forward putting

all this content out there let's jump right into today's episode after a quick word from some of our awesome Partners who make this possible welcome aboard on our journey into the singularity this is the endgame road map for fra and FRA the new L2 out of the frax ecosystem that is totally based on fractal scaling fractal a modular L2 blockchain built by fra with modular and fractal scaling in mind fractal scaling is based on the mandal BR set of fractal images and it explains how l2s become l3s and the entire app chain life cycle goes through its

Evolution the FR ecosystem is made of some of the top builders in the space and has stemmed from its OG days of the fra stable coin it is now in the LST space the LRT space and this fraxel L2 joins the existing Suite of fra products including fra Swap and fra lend you can see fra fairy the bridge to go from any chain arbitrum optimism or main net in to the fraxel main net Bridge your tokens and bring your FRA assets into the fractal ecosystem join today to get the best out of fraxel you are still

early join today take part in our Expedition into the singularity coent is solving the longterm data availability problem where a lot of the data availability providers today in the modu space when you post data to them they actually only hold that data for about 12 to 16 days and then it's basically it can go into an archive note or often times it's just kind of put away into the abyss and what coent is trying to do is build this long-term data availability solution which can plug into some of this modular data availability providers and provide this longer term Perpetual data solution so what we try to think of this as is when

you post transaction data onto Celestial or Vil or any of these modular da Solutions or even if ethereum coal is able to provide a long-term data storage and data availability platform for that data after the time period blockchains are Billboards not databases and you know we need these providers in the space to be able to kind of hold on to the longterm data that is providing from these providers and these blockchain State this is where coent comes in they just had a nice Rebrand check them out on Twitter as well as the website thank you for being here hope you enjoy the rest of the show all right uh live in New York City um Austin's wearing his Mady shirt which is pretty based if you

ask me and your pants are insane thank you yeah I don't know where you got those from little shop in London called scrit I feel like I should become a brand ambassador at this point okay what is your accent by the way well well it's I've been told it's a mixture between New York and London but I'm actually aeran turker cypriate so Cypress small island uh between Greece and Turkey and aeran which is like a Rel L small country between like Russia Georgia Armenia Iran so yeah that's me nice nice I think I match with a girl in Tinder from aeran or hinge beautiful she's she's quite beautiful yeah anyway so what's your what's your backstory into Mega eth um You're Building Mega eth

your what's your role at Mega eth how'd you get to Mega eth um what's going on yeah I'll give a quick tldr so basically God into crypto around 2020 was working on a privacy solution at the time which had like you know not in crypto had relatively decent pmf but retail end users could not care less about their data so I started going down a rabbit hole of trying to figure out why was able to get in touch with Tim burner Lee's office and they basically said his biggest regret ever uh if the web was not creating a native money layer to the Internet so I'm like hm interesting at that point I'm working with dubbing on this non- crypto privacy solution and I'm talking to her and she's like yo crypto solves this I'm like okay you're

talking to D beinging who was working on Mega E right now exactly so I've known sha for a very long time okay and we're working on this thing she's like crypto solves this I Get Down The Rabbit Hole uh most of 2020 2021 doing a lot of like defi nft Dow stuff mostly like as a individual contributing to a few Dows here there uh realized it's all super centralized does not really work and went to the Venture side so join a venture fund was there for a bit over a year focusing on like the modular blockchain feces most the infrastructure a lot of cross train stuff as well was lots of fun was still in college and was like okay let me like max out as many skill trees as possible even though I was by no means maxing out the Venture side went to do liquids so I joined a

prop shop of New York uh tra was trading through the depths of the bear and uh ended up deciding to join consensus to work more of brother Bing and that was lots of fun was doing strategy in BD uh primarily on metamask and Linea trying trying to figure out like what can be done that's very cool and then Mega popped up and yeah I joined alongside sha part of the founding team and you know what do I do exactly is a bit of a question but it's mostly uh heading growth a lot of strategy and just like Vibes all right tell me you Mega eth popped up how did it pop up what's kind of the origin of Mega eth sure suspense suspense man so

effectively what happened was elong was you know doing his PhD in low latency computed Stanford and he's like probably top 15 top 16 in the world when it comes to this very particular vertical uh working with like data centers and [ __ ] goes to alphabet goes to meta like yo like look at all this cool stuff and they're like this is a bit too far Advanced like there's nothing we can do here and his only other option was to become a high frequency Trader and he's just not that guy so started learning about blockchain started learning about the power of blockchains and as well as like the Deep inefficiencies between like like these systems are just like not optimized like full just simply set they're not optimized so he then gets in touch with uh Lei who's one of our other co-founders uh also our CTO who was

studying basically high performance networking at MIT for his PhD a little bit of lore he actually co-wrote uh the famous data availabity data availability white paper with shiram from aan uh so yeah they basically start jamming come up with this very particular architecture which is Mega happy to walk you guys through it as well I like to give a very simple pragmatic exper exp ex what's this word explanation yeah you see English is in my first language uh a very simple explanation of how meie is truly structured and they come with this basic architecture then they're like okay how do we productize this how do we create like zero to1 applications how do we create an ecosystem and it's where myself and brother Ben Cayman got it

yeah okay so I mean mega eth mega eth what what actually is it it's the first real time uh real time blockchain is that the like meme of it but is it an L2 is it an L1 like help us understand what actually it is 100% so first and foremost me is a blockchain right it's an environment for people to create and interact in a peer-to-peer Network the way we're able to reach this level of performance which is 100 ktps 1 millisecond block times is by inheriting the security of ethereum right what has actually changed in the design Space Landscape over the past couple years well a lot of really smart people have worked on fraud proofs and a lot of really smart people have worked on like this escape hatch right and I think in

our opinion that is the new information which entered the market and that allowed us to build the most performant possible environment so yes we're layered to in the way that we inherit aerum security and we're able to create this extremely performance environment I've also just heard that you guys are like like the rumor mill amongst the VCS is that you guys are transitioning to an L1 that you guys are ditching ethereum yeah so this is like fundamentally impossible right cuz I it's a great question right like I've been asked this before are you going to abandon etherium yeah you guys are I have no idea how this we're called Mega don't lie to us right now it's called Mega E I feel like it's very clear that we're Mega bullish on ethereum but let me explain to you why right I think a lot of this is a

good question because a lot of l2s could become l1s a lot of these l2s what they're benefiting from is the fact that they're able to leverage aerium liquidity able to leverage eum's user base and get a level of money and activity which they just would not have been able to get as their own ecosystem right the difference is that Mega we're able to leverage this achieve this level of performance solely because we're built on ethereum right like how does mega work we basically said this guarantee of e decentralization allows us to go back to the uh you know first principles for what a blockchain should look like so you know most nodes are homogeneous right on most l1s that you can think of including ethereum what that means is one node will do all of

the tasks associated with blockchain the issue is these tasks are fundamentally very [ __ ] different and they want different kinds of outcomes so by inheriting ethereum security we can say you know what instead of having one node that is both validation and sequencing why don't we in execution why don't we have one node that is amazing at sequencing and execution and that means we're centralizing block production which we think is fine because we're able to inherit theerum security so what we do is we we hyper optimize the hardware we hyper optimize the software and we make like a match made in heaven that's how we're able to hit this level of performance imagine way way way beef than salana but on the other end we're able to build a validator improver node architecture which is way way lighter

than etherium right and does a subset of the sequences transactions so our architecture is built by taking the security and decentralization of ethereum as a given if Mega was to become an L1 it would just become any other L1 so Mega is not gonna become an L1 Mega is not GNA become an L1 because then we're not going to be the most performing possible blockchain you're not going to be Mega eth at that point we're not going to also what we have to Rebrand come on yeah I mean I love the name I think the make ethereum great again is a cool tagline but it also signif it also like alludes that ethereum is not great now something to think about we can talk about it yeah yeah we can talk about but but first are you guys confirmed using I

da yes nice what's the thought process there versus Celestia or aale I mean firstly I love Celestia I love ail I love everybody right we're friends of everybody I think for us Igan da makes the most sense right Lei has a very strong intrinsic understanding of the stack we work very very closely with igen we work very closely with Ian da and we have a similar strategy on how to kind of scale blockchains so there's a deep ideological and Technical uh overlap like we work we have Engineers that are collaborating already so pretty deep integration so does does aan Da or any of these da teams provide large financial support to integrate well we what do you mean like are they paying us

to is there grants or like is there certain systems that are in place or is it just really a tech thing yeah I mean there I'm sure there are lots of grants that IG does I there's a lot of things going on about igen today the reason we use igen is for the tech [Music] cartey is your home for app specific rollups at the Forefront of developing new tools and platforms that enhance the capabilities of blockchain Technology cartei enables applications that are flexible and built to scale build on a full Linux environment and use traditional software libraries but in blockchain development go to

cy. that's cy. to learn more about building your own app chain today ever C is pioneering the clearing layer the clearing layer can almost be thought of as splitwise when you go on a trip with friends but for the blockchain what I mean by that is when users are sending cross Ching messages there's often times fillers and solvers who have balances left on different chains that they need to rebalance and reset their positions this is where ever comes in ever is pioneering a collaborative approach to the chain abstraction future and they are willing to work with interoperability Partners solvers and other providers in the space to build a

interoperable and chain abstraction future check out Everclear ever clear.org and welcome back to the L up okay one interesting design Trend and I feel like from what you said previously I maybe know where your head is at on this but you're totally right in the sense that these things have been uh under optimized like we kind of over the past you know 7 years have been trying to make things work simply put not necessarily like make them work well and in a performance sense um I think it was Mona that was the first over the past like that's really the first one that I saw come up that's like we really really care about performance maybe you could say salana but like uh at least in the ethereum like evbm world uh monad uh SE

was talking about this as well um how do you guys conceptualize the like differences between the work that you're doing monad say some of these other just like fundamental optimization parallelization of protocols does it come down to your relationship with ethereum or is there like something else that I think it's a great question right so there are optimizations you can do on the L1 and you can create a more optimized L1 which is really cool which you're not doing which we're not doing cuz we're not one confirming again yeah but what what we're really focused on is like how do you create the most performant block train imaginable because in our opinion like what what's La doing right now like 3K TPS not enough

10K TPS onad not enough right when you look at really deeply understand the mega architecture you'll realize we are truly bound only by Hardware so we can continue to scale linearly of hardware and become even more performant increase the capacity of M even further right I think another one is like what kind of performance are we talking about right we're really bullish on single threed performance right because yeah we do paralyzation as part of our optimizations too but paralyzation doesn't necessarily increase the capability of the kind of application that can exist it can increase the capacity of the kind of application so for us it's really a game of like latency enables net new applications and to reach this level of latency and this

level of performance you simply can't do it as a layer one and mega if is performance first uh buzzword later second I guess like okay um with I feel like we have fallen into this kind of funny reality I think things will be far more clear 5 years from now but in order to develop the first rollups it had to be a rollup I think the most clear case of this is op mainnet where they built a rollup but they have now moved to a point where they're acely tweeting like optimism is not OP M optimism is the super chain and especially with polygon and ZK sync uh talking about shared Bridge contracts uh I feel like the world in 5 years is going to be uh

shared Bridge contracts and roll ups might look more comparable to a server so are you building a rollup or are you building like Linux that people will run on ec2s kind of like in that parallel world are people going to be running their own Mega eths or is there going to be a Mega E yeah I think that to borrow from the wise friends over at salana Mega is building a Global State machine okay yeah one roll up one roll up not a million roll all right you said you wanted to make this spicy can I make it spicy let's go for it all right so one reason I care about building in the ethereum ecosystem and this sounds very like there is a ton of ideological alignment with your team and the ethereum ecosystem one huge issue I have is that 43% of blocks today are censored on the

eal1 network because block production is outsourced uh to just like literally a handful of parties if you have a single node and you're talking about really juicing block production does that not uh degrade the whole point of ethereum uh like do do you not lose censorship resistance with that yeah I mean ethereum like ethereum is more decentralized than Mega yes I agree and I think that we're not trying to pretend that's not the case we think performance and decentralization fundamentally do not go hand inand it's very not it's not very hard it's like impossible to create an environment which can scale with like web two levels of adoption right and also things in web 2 become more computationally intensive

every single year as well we think that there are free guarantees which uh Mega is able to give its users which is sufficient right the first one is proofs Pro proofs right make sure the sequencer is not wilding out the second is escape hatch if if we go like if we go malicious your e is safe I think that's so powerful right I don't think people will index on how powerful that is it's it's very very strong and thirdly we're going to enable people to rotate the sequencer right so there'll be a rotational sequencer architecture where not one person is you know King of the castle forever so yeah I mean that that works some of the censorship resistant properties out but I think like the core

of it like the Crux of it why arbitrum just posted their road map including sequencer decentralization why teams working into that is that's the only way to like get true censorship resistance I think as far as the centralization for Mega eth they've got like from what I understand it's like decentralized block validation centralized block production I think that's kind of like like the thesis but if an entity wanted to shut any centralized sequencer L2 down they could birex Edge is now live on say Network say users can now trade 50 plus spot and per markets with the unified order book liquidity of vertex Edge across arbitrum blast mantle and SE the next 6 weeks

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resing protocols and defi protocols and earn yields in the form of powder which will eventually be turning into a governance token Mantle's been around for a while we like them because they use their own form of Ian de uh they have a good ecosystem and they're growing so check out this 100 day metamorphosis campaign and hope you guys enjoy the rest of this video I can touch on a couple things you guys mentioned here right so so go first just to kind of like clarify the things here liveness is uh a concern Downstream uh it liveness is its own property like make sure it's still up there and people can do the 100,000 uh uh TPS um censorship resistance though is an alternative thing where it's independent of liveness and it's just that anybody across the

world can get whatever they want to post to something um I'm not asking you to have an answer to this because frankly the entire ethereum research Community doesn't have an answer to this currently and it's something that is just uh I don't know kind of sad to see and I'm not not saying like uh that I have the solution by any means but just like I've built in the ethereum ecosystem for so long and seeing that just like a handful of actors are able to censor transactions at this point definitely especially with ethereum's business model being in question like is the ultrasound money me the thing or is it not like uh yeah I just think it's like something that is kind of an existential like question for ethereum large on the L1 I fully agree this is a big problem right uh on the L2 it's kind of what

Andy referenced right maximum centralized block production maximum decentralized block validation is is a general strategy and it's kind of what vitalic wrote in this 2021 endgame article right and for us we think like yes one sequencer might be shut down but that's why we're having rotational sequencer architecture where at any point in time like let's say from a block interval metic you know model you have different sequencers running at different times for us and yes part of the arbit from road map is decentralization of the sequencers that's when we have performance degradation when you bring consensus among sequencers into the game that's when you lose the level performance of Mega E uh you know says and that's why

we're never going to bat an eperium we're like the like we're actually our road map is e yeah and I think like the difference here between the l2s that are doing this like Mega E versus like the l1s like monad say is that I I feel that these l1s that are super high performing eventually are are just going to have to choose in some capacity do we centralize more to scale harder to scale to more throughput whereas I think in this case um you have that ethereum level uh security for the settlement and so the question is less of a I guess of a centralizing the I guess it's more of a hardware question right than it is a do we centralize the nodes because there really is only one sequencer yes you're moving it around rotating it but it's

more of like how much do we boost the hardware yeah exactly less so how much do we constrict the number of nodes to basically fight like like light propagation and laty yeah and if you're able to effectively decouple the note that there's like obviously production validation right the idea isn't that everyone in the world should run a sequencer like we don't that's not the vision we see yeah no that's not going to happen and it's it's just like it's it's not pragmatic right but we do want absolutely everybody to be able to run a or note yeah I think it's even uh I totally agree with you in that uh it's not pragmatic to have everybody doing I think even ethereum it like the path that's going down like solo staking is becoming very difficult uh even with

like peer Das like getting shipped like uh have you guys seen Peter from The EF kind of going on rants on Twitter about like this is like I feel like this guy worked on this stuff for like seven years and now the whole dream of just solo stakers across the world being able to run nodes is kind of disappearing in front of him and he's freaking out about it a bit like rationally in my opinion um so I'm totally with with you on the design principle there and I also really like that uh you're kind of taking a stance like no there is Mega eth there is not you don't get your own Mega eth there is everybody's Mega E that is One Vision I think uh salana has had for a while and it hits it makes complete sense where the way anol can communicate

it people really resonates with like hft people and who like actually work in like traditional Financial like Traditional High Performance uh Financial system you know it's interesting like I we can talk a bit about the eal1 stuff for cuz I find to be fascinating the way I kind of uh you know mentally like my mental framework for how these l1s operate is like and again this is going to be like repeating what everyone's been saying but there's like all these trade-off curves that you need to make and etherium decided to like really really settle on like being the most decentralized possible turn complete uh you know layer one right and then the success of salana by basically saying hey we want something more performant has brought a lot of conversations of should we drack up

Hardware requirements right like should we should we kind of make this not as inclusive to like a solo Staker or anyone who's just trying to participate in the in the in the layer one and I think the reason why it feels this much pressure is because there is no answer for performance and that's what I hope Mega can solve right if Mega is able to come and say the reason we're a because I gu ask this question a lot like why etherium why not Soul why not like you know some L1 that hasn't even launched yet um and the reason is because theum is the most decentralized layer one and that allows us to create it allows us to make these design tradeoffs to go performance first so like you know my uneducated wish is that hopefully in the

shortterm future right when Mega is live and we have all kinds of super cool applications being built on Mega guys like these are applications which when you first got into crypto you got in because of a dream of like a peer-to-peer app not because of mcoin trading I assume uh we're having really cool stuff built on me because of the latency because of the frut and my hope is that effectively like we will be able to allow eperium and all of the all the noise around the fum L1 road map to kind of settle down being like hey we should actually remain in our uh Market positioning as the most decentralized air one because I think that's immensely powerful and the second you lose it it's a rat's race to like yeah centralization what's the meme like chasing two rabbits

at once like you're not going to catch either exactly yeah I mean your point is like basically you can you you can just optimize rollups now for maximum scale rely on ethereum for security there we shouldn't be building rollups that are under 50K TPS under 100K TPS under 10k TPS anymore we should just go for scale and basically use ethereum which kind of started on what you you were saying there in the beginning about how how we've built a lot of tech but we haven't really built it for like the most optimized version of it um you you mentioned kind of like when Mega eth goes live I feel like you guys have a interesting uh kind of setup where you have this deeply embedded research background and then like uh brother Bing and like the way that you guys push this

cultural level of marketing is very like almost like Zoomer almost like in the now Crypton native I'm a Zoomer so that checks the Bing is is also like somewhat like you know she will push the flames on Twitter especially recently she pushed some [ __ ] on Twitter that was like pretty aggressive you know it's so interesting that that was not we got a lot of messages that was pretty aggressive but it's yeah but it wasn't against other like Builders but it came off that way I know I know but it wasn't against other builders it was about like there's a lot of VC's that lar in the space like a lot there's a lot of larpers it was just to the larpers saying like hey you know uh you're going to get mogged basically which was yeah definitely this is what I mean though

and so and so you're talking about Mega E coming live and I'm saying okay I feel like the structure that you guys have for approaching your your like marketing is is going well because you have the strong Research Foundation but also where the whole Community is waiting for something to try out right there's been there's a lot of like we're going to MOG you so is question when main net so the question is what is the development and like when can I try this this kind of system yeah so we're hoping for October for testnet and then January for mayet yeah awesome and so that's pretty quick to development timeline for sure I mean inah yeah yeah right yeah cool Okay cool so that'll be the chance for users to

kind of jump on like those in the audience watching this who want to you know try out the chain Etc yeah I mean awesome yes okay cool um kind of Switching gears like pulling out of the technical um and getting us into more of some of the economics of your ecosystem so a couple things here like I've been like vocally like kind of like okay guys we don't really need any more evm l2s like basic like arbitrum Forks optimism Forks these general purpose l2s are a lot of work to spin up they cost a lot of money they're not really going to AC much value app chains are going to rule or basically next gen VM or highly High TPS l2s on the contrary I've also been saying okay yes this is right but we

also need to like figure out ways to give Builders of apps sequencer Revenue such that they stay on Mega eth in this case or on other chain and not leave and launch their own H chain and there's other composability benefits and network effects that you know Mega eth could have but like how are you approaching sequencer Revenue how are you approaching app Builders uh distributions of value and how are you going to keep and or how you going to attract and keep builders on Mega eth instead of them occurring value to Mega eth sequencer you guys making the money and then then being like screw this I'm out I'm going to launch my own chain sure so I think there's a lot of stuff to go there's a lot here so I want to actually start eight questions there I we answer every single one so I want to

start with the evm point right I think the evm has the most public good work and like literature written around it right and it's like next gen VMS is in a lot of ways like let's first optimize the evm before we start chilling like oh let's just go back to zero with all of the public goods technical work technical literature that's been provided right so our feces is that the evbm itself is fine right you can create optimizations to make a an environment which is highly performant right and that's what Mega is doing so I think that's the first point the second point is like our relationships with our Builders basically

right sequencers make money in either world if you have a highly efficient sequencer I.E like our block times and you're using like Ian da8 sequencers should not be making all this crazy money right the reason why people build a mega is not because they're like ah you know what I'm just going to go to whichever chain gives me like the fastest Grant the reason people build on Mega is because they're building applications that can only exist on Mega these are applications that can become multi-billion businesses because they can bring in net new users Mega brings the performance of web 2 with the crypto economics and peer-to-peer networks of web free that is ridiculously powerful right if we're going to bring it any users it's not going to be because like

you know we've come up with like a fun little tagline it's because like you have really good apps that bring users in and they don't know they don't know what's going on they don't know what chain is being run like I don't want like an end user that's leveraging Mega to know that they're using Mega just like I don't know what like a computer like I don't know what my computer is using for like Ram I was going to ask about like your take on chain abstraction at large I know we think about this a ton um and I think there's a number of things you could say but you almost kind of like answered it there where you are extremely focused on on the developers themselves building applications that could only be built on something like Mega eth um and so it almost like doesn't matter if chain

abstraction like wins or not because there is that like Mo on the developer like is that kind of how you all I I I wouldn't even say I focus on devs I focus on Founders right I focused on people who want to build the next generation of the internet right and I think we've lost this over the past few years like that's how Andy and I initially met like there was a lot of optimism around like you can build more Equitable World using crypto and now we've devolved into like watching live crazy [ __ ] up live streams on pump. Fun by the way I think it's a great product right but like you know that is not going to be the future of our industry by the way yeah like it's it's cool but I don't think it's it's a chief right so chain

abstraction to you is like it's like maybe it's important to bring new users from other rollup ecosystems but for you it's like I'm not focusing on existing crypto users but do you believe in in the idea of abstracting away gas and multi-chain complexities I think like gas abstraction is great okay gas abstraction on yeah we all have Masters or something the app level or at the at the sequencer level uh I believe it's going to be on the app level cool so ultimately though like when what do you really need for a really great gas abstraction you need consistency right gas prices right of gas prices because someone is paying for that gas somewhere and that pay Master is going to be thrown out of the whack really quickly if like you know the price of gas is spiking it's like it's absurd so like

our focus is on creating the most stable the most performant environment for to be able to build really cool things on top of it right and we have really cool Builders yeah we have like insane defi stuff right which is sick and I love defi but we have a lot of really fasy and consumer experiences that would break any other chain we have deepen solutions that would literally could not work anywhere else and they have been tried in other places but because of the block times on Mega E it's now feasible because there's no performance degradation or web to counterpart any application in crypto needs to reach feature parity with their web two counterpart for it to even mat and no application in crypto has feature parity with their web two counterpart and that's why we're stuck trading memin is

this on devnet right now what you're speaking about deep in things is this priv we have a private devet okay cool well that's all the questions that I have um thanks for coming on yeah 100% dude yeah it was a pleasure guys great