How Blockchains Could Create Community Consciousness - Toni Lane Casserly, Cultu.re

Transcript

[Music] hello and welcome to the blockchain and us we're pioneers and thought leaders talked about their journey in blockchain technology crypto assets and a token economy and I'm your host manuel staggers this episode has support from my very own the blockchain and us a newsletter get an email from me every two weeks with a very short summary of new podcast episodes so you can immediately pick those interviews you'd like to listen to to stay up-to-date just visit www.cannainsider.com/careers [Music] in the digital currency and blockchain

industry including coin telegraph and she is the founder of culture a platform and protocol built to create global citizenship through cooperation and evolve the future of government into communities Beyond Borders and now to the conversation with Tony Lane Casserly hi Tony and many thanks for taking time today Green yeah thank you so much for having me Tony I'd like to jump right in and speak about your current project culture can you describe your vision for the project sure so culture is really the idea that the way we thought about organizing our human race for the last you know more than 500 years since a lot of written

history has been fundamentally the wrong way to organize humanity it's inhuman you say that because we live on this earth which we have destroyed or is scarce and that we will oppress groups of people or populations because there's not enough to go around but it wasn't always like this you know earth provided for us when we cared for her and the minute that we started destroying the world around us as the men and when we started destroying the well-being of our fellow man and we're reaching a new equilibrium place where resources are already so overly abundant if repurposed food we wasted in the United States alone we could literally cure

global hunger and it's this these resources it's just that these resources are not evenly distributed yet so what we are working to solve is to reconnect humanity to its purpose through community ok cool was there a specific event that made it obvious to you that things aren't going well in today's societies it's not just today's society I mean think about the number of times that men have burned down entire villages like taking advantage of an entire population of women and children merely to feel like they have ownership over something that doesn't even belong to them it belongs to the planet the minute that we started

feeling like we own the world is the minute that we started destroying it and so I don't think this is an example that is merely related to our present day I think that you can look at the first block and the Bitcoin blockchain for an excellent example of the way the world is going wrong today because Satoshi encoded a message that is you know showcasing institutions failing to serve the populations they are meant to in some way or shape or form represent and that disconnect is actually inhuman because it represents the absence of consciousness not the truth of consciousness and that's what separates us from apes that is what separates us from animals and these other forms of life is that we are living in a

different state of consciousness even though other forms the grass is conscious in its own way and there are spirits everywhere but this is what separates us from when I say apes I don't mean apes just like the animal apes I actually mean this deeper primal instinct of you know like the survival instinct and that what separates us so if we want to create that change we have to encourage a shift in broader consciousness and through encouraging that shift in consciousness and is shift in the way that we have access to essentially like an infinite matrix of resources that is what's going to shift our systemic infrastructure and our human relationship to each other and how does blockchain technology come

in there with that with that vision well blockchain is able to quantify ownership in completely different ways and so the blockchain isn't owned by anyone but the blockchain is managed or moderated by a community now that's not to say that blockchain eliminates ownership because now that we've gone so far down this path of property it's going to take a unity consciousness for us to really let go of that and transcend but it is to say that we are more able to effectively manage both supply chain and systems of ownership so for example if we're seeing that in the United States every year we're wasting 30 billion dollars on excess food production that we could otherwise be investing into other economies than we would shift the 30 billion dollars worth of waste into perhaps a 30 billion

dollar investment in new agriculture systems and growing our human race when we start to eliminate once we have an information matrix that is abundant and computers that have the power to process that information to generate insight and meaning from from that raw information or that raw data set then we will be able to more efficiently and effectively manage our planet and its resources in a way that actually leans closer toward a real sense of stewardship rather than the exploitation that the we've we as you know a lot of people and we as a planet have been enduring and that's one part of the shift is more effective changing you know the our relationship to information efficiency and

inefficiency really its blockchain ship relationship to information asymmetry by providing ubiquitous access through Ledger's to every person on the planet for example let me interrupt there quickly I think it's a great example with the food waste right but let's think this through quickly with with how blockchains can can help there so you're saying it's about transparency of the information first and foremost so what would that look like with this with this food issue there that you described well it's not merely transy it's also accountability and so you're engaging in something that's it's it's a completely different system yeah I mean it's a completely

different system of accountability when you are when you everyone in the world has access to information so it is transparency but transparency is almost a sneaky word because people say I'm being transparent but a lot of people just transparency to disguise secrecy and so I wouldn't say it's transparent I would say it's open source it's a computer language term when something is open-source everyone in the world has access when something is transparent can you see fully through something that's transparent no you can't it's like looking through Wagner paper you know what I mean if it makes something if blockchain makes information transparent that it's not actually giving everyone enough clarity to make decisions effectively it might give systems clarity if you're working on a

public private blockchain intersection but it's not necessarily giving the people who are moderating the systems enough clarity to really manage those resources effectively on a peer-to-peer level now transparency might mean institutions are saying we're managing these resources effectively on an institution to institution level without giving that database of information to peers but that actually eliminates the that actually eliminates the effectiveness of modern governments and I believe that if people are inspired and have economic systems that are actually more valuable than the economic systems that are created by institutions that are either depriving people of their access to resource or access to opportunity then people are going to

choose the platform that gives them greater access to take ownership leverage over their resources and of their opportunity in life and hopefully we have both peer-to-peer networks and peer-to-peer networks run through and by for institutions shifting in that direction and I don't think economically that they have another option mm-hmm to come back to that food example because I think it's a really it's a big problem it's huge and but what is what is the first step that you would that you would basically propose there where the blockchain really matters well it's actually already being done I mean this is what IBM is doing it's called the IBM food trust and the article says IBM food trust uses blockchain technology to make

this more hold on one second I just uses botching technology to improve transparency stay and efficiency throughout the food supply chain um so it's not only providing information in terms of data but the opportunity for any person in the world to get involved with their economy and that's what's going to be integral in creating the foundation for global universal earned-income is actually having a private sector open source tasks and work for people to get involved differently in doing the things that they're actually inspired to do how do you think will the jump happen from information to actually doing something so it's already happening and it's not just inspired by blotching it's also inspired by things like automation when

we have when McDonald's is installing machines that are doing the jobs for every worker that's there if you actually look at a map of the United States this is totally nuts more than 50% of the United States their largest employer in every state is Walmart yeah that isn't it and Walmart is not able to make enough sales to meet margins like they used to because the consumer class of people that are shopping at Walmart are not as big the margins aren't as big as they used to be because everyone's going online everyone's moving to Amazon and so Walmart is going to need to cut costs at a certain point in some way or shape or form and at likely one of the first costs they're gonna cut with with more effective automated labor are going to

be the livelihoods of the people that work there and Walmart is a corporation that in in several different instances has been known for doing this and so I see that as an inevitable trend and if that's an inevitable trend there's going to need to be some form of a support layer for the people that are going to lose the jobs they've had for the last 35 years working at this institution so automation is going to inspire a shift in the way we think about labor into a process of being a part of a system just a cog in the machine and a brick in the wall into something that looks a lot more like creative liberation and that process of co-creation is really the foundation of community economies which quatrains build on cool I also I

followed the discussion in the culture telegram group about the concept of building a society around identity instead of economic interactions can you maybe we explain how that's how that works I'm so glad you asked this question because the smartest people I know still I feel still have not figured out the simplest way to solve one of the most talked-about problems everyone talks about reputation in blockchain --is you can buy your rep but that incentive is don't tell me how that works you can buy your rep what does that mean like there are I know at least three different projects that have a rep our EP rep token and that rep token represents reputation and to part this

on the system you have to purchase rep now rep is usually really deep but it still represents something economic and I think the fact that we're using companying that is inherently economic as the foundation of our reputation is something that's out of alignment with a sense of integrity that we need to evolve as a humanity become more intelligent about each other and ultimately more sensitive to our relationship with with with time with resources and with our general humanity and that shift will happen actually strangely as a subset I believe of robots and artificial intelligence taking more jobs so people can have more freedom to actually behave like human beings the core root of the thing that makes as the human being is our capacity for empathy in Darwin's book The Descent

of Man he doesn't actually say extensively the survival of the fittest quote survival of the fittest is a dogmatic interpretation of a scientists work they exploited the work of a scientist to fuel a Dogma and when I say they is there one specific person Noah was an entire group of people that exploited science to for their own survival instincts but two chapters earlier in that same book Darwin actually talks about empathy and that groups that were more likely to survive during times of hardship where groups that exhibited the highest capacity of empathy for each other now obviously this doesn't relate to in in some cases things like bugs are insect but in in

mammalian species our capacity for empathy is actually rooted in survival during hardship and so I believe that we've misinterpreted most of what people perceive to be scientific quote-unquote fact have you've relieved this information as a false narrative that's that's been the last century has been the manipulation of a false narrative for the gain of the illusory individual you can look at McLuhan and McLuhan for positive examples of the use of this medium and you can look at Bernays who is the inventor of propaganda for the way in which this medium has been exploited since the early 1900's so I believe that our relationship to identity is not about self-identification and self belief in

self radicalization that's extremely dangerous but our relationship to our identity is actually actually a process of the way that we connect to each other so when I talk about new systems of governance my thesis is not that governance is structured on economics because if you think that governance is structured on economics let's look at economics ok you want governance to be equal and you want governance to be fair and you want to talk about democracy but when you talk about democracy and equality in whatever sense you choose you choose to talk about equality if you want something to be fair provably fair let's just talk about provably fair you should not base a system that you wish to be provably fair on a system that is already completely exploited economics

is a system that is completely exploited markets are systems that in some ways are designed to be exploited by selfish people I agree I agree there with the markets that's totally true but economics that's just incentives right well and depending on whether the incentives work this is what I mean by Bernays so Bernays I'll give you a little bit of backstory on Bernie's Bernays is the father of prop not modern propaganda he's the father of propaganda he like invented the term he also invented the PC term public relations which is what he later coined it as to be accepted by a more mainstream audience he is the nephew of a man that we know as Sigmund Freud and we know about Sigmund Freud's work because Bernays mainstreamed it now what Bernays did was he realized from an insight that

his austrian uncle had that the most effective way to sell products to consumers was to materialize their unconscious pomazan projection into products so one was how he got women to smoke right the the one of the largest executives in tobacco came in and said and we're trying to get women smoked we're losing 50% of our target market and he said okay well let me hire the psychologist et Bruno's he's one of the most famous psychologists in New York and we'll figure out why women aren't smoking though he hires EE grilles and figures out that women are being shamed for smoking because the cigarette actually represents unconsciously a symbol of feminine power over the masculine and that something was a trigger point for males that made them

say women who smoke are unattractive and so Bernays countered this by hosting this rally and getting women to strap boxes of cigarettes so their legs these debutantes he calls everyone in the press and he says you have to come they're debutantes they're gonna be marching they're holding torches of fire so he basically led everyone in the press the executives in the press to tell the authors what to write and then had them appear with all of their cameras and these women show up rip up their skirts like stick their legs out like the you know the girl who's trying to call the cars stick their legs out rip up their skirts and whip out a pack of cigarettes and start smoking and so that way patient of an unconscious trauma and in later Y films represented cigarettes as a symbol of female the the

female sexuality as a form and a use of power and that court exploitative symbol has trickled down to like so much of what we see in in modern media today that is using this this relationship to someone's own the sovereignty of a person's own body and using that as an exploitive tool to sell products now that trend is shifting because people are starting to wake up but they're not fully there yet so the idea that you know economics have been actually exploited because the incentives can be exploited if you can exploit someone's mind because economic systems are human systems so if you can explain a person you can exploit a system and the way

that I'm thinking about governance the way I'm thinking about identity is how do we make the process of our identities something that is inherently insure dynamic and more related to each other because once you have these networks of mutual trust you leave less room for exploitation because you're building human context and you're actually making people develop a greater consciousness through your shared experiences not looking to have experiences with people where you decrease your level of consciousness through the consumption of like drugs and alcohol you're looking to increase that consciousness and that's the way we're designing the standard got it so the incentive ten is increasing consciousness yes the open source protocol behind the work at my

for-profit company it's called trust and it's basically the idea that we build a trusted network of peers and institutions to steward verify and make claims about both a ninja wa individual's identity and then steward it on top of that identity is reputation is a process of restoration then comes the third tier in culture you also have the concept of universal basic education and I think that sounds really interesting can you briefly explain it so the way that I talk about a lot of a lot of these processes is that it shouldn't be universal basic income because universal basic income implies that if you just get money for free like

let's look at so many people in blockchain who made a lot of money early on and spent all of their money on sponsoring parties when you usually get money and you don't have to do anything for it you don't value it you know let's not see everyone did that but it people don't a lot of most people a lot of people don't value money when they get it when they've had to do nothing for it but if you create a process of earned income where you have access models that allow you to earn different forms of income in different ways then you're shifting the incentive layer and you're shifting the process by which people are interacting and so universal basic education is a process and it's actually a if it's you know what holistic company structures look like or a holic rhotic

structure can you explain so hollow product structures are the idea that hierarchy is a dysfunctional system because you're essentially saying we're gonna give the most people the least and one person the most and that system is unethical and exploitative and but if you have a holic or CI how la cracy looks almost like like like like a sacred symbol it's a bunch of concentric circles where you have these nodes like block chains are set up you all of these different nodes that you have like a management node in a community node and this node and that node and you set up all of these different nodes and the nodes are basically teams of these like these people who are just working together to accomplish a goal there's not a sense of titling like here's the CEO and here's

the whatever there are just different groups of people working on different things to accomplish a goal for a project and so polychronic structures what was my starting point on holographic structures I think because we spoke about universal Basic Education yes so it's the idea that universe alleged basic education is a part of that the universal basic education comes from being a part of a community and so different communities will offer different forms of education for free to different members that have different economic standing in different levels of trust in different ways for different systems and if you do have this level of transparency then you're able to see who effectively needs to get this education for free or who doesn't necessarily need

to get this education for free but really needs to learn this new skill and wants to use this new skill to give back to the community and so it's really this process we're changing the model of ownership to stewardship I mean to talk about education even just holistically like I I dropped out of college the minute I was told that I might have to take out a loan because I said why in the world would I pay for something that should be free to me why am i working for a piece of paper so I can sit in a corporate job at L'Oreal for the next seven years and maybe like you know gain an executive position one day where I'm gonna be in in the this the great ivory tower of feeling like I have a sense of self-identity because I'm a part of

something that I didn't create and that's the problem is that people feel like their self-identity is related to things that they don't create they feel like their self-identity is related to their trauma and when you're living through a world where self identity is related to trauma we're creating these exploitive thought bubbles where people are basically communicating only with their subculture only with their in-group without actually having meaningful conversation from within a world of other intelligent beings um who might want to teach them and I believe that the way that we start expanding this capacity for connection is by sharing mutual experience and the number of people who want to create and who want to share mutual experiences are

many but the amount of information we have to connect right people to right place is actually more scarce and I think some would imagine but with universal Basic Education where does blockchain technology come in there so in many different ways just like anything else like universal Basic Education isn't gonna be provided by a chain I don't think it should be provided by one chain at this point because if it is provided by one chain I think we're right back in the system that we're trying to change it's the same thing with things like universal basic income it's like say Bitcoin will give everyone Universal in okay except bitcoin is owned the majority of the

Bitcoin blockchain is owned by seventeen percent of people so pretty sure that that's not universal because you're not able to give every person on the planet the opportunity to own something universally we don't have the opportunity for people to own universally in blockchain infrastructure if it's economic because economists are not equal we're not starting in an equal playing field and thus it's it's not going to be equal it won't evolve to be equal and we don't necessarily want right and it will mess it might necessarily not ever be equal until we unless we transcend into a form of unity consciousness but at least we can hope and work for things to be fair and free for things to be fair for an entire

society and I think that's really I think before we reach a higher state of consciousness that being fair is really the level at which we need to gain an understanding for and so I think the fairness starts with both having a you know peer-to-peer stewardship and from within that diverse economic opportunity so Universal basic education is not going to be provided by one community it's not going to be provided by one school it's not going to be provided by one piece of infrastructure it's not going to be provided by one blockchain app or infrastructure or protocol or economy it's going to be provided networks of these things working holistically to establish something greater for all and then testing in

between those understand what works for what person when and where because different people learn differently and for some universal basic education might actually be a process of going out into the world and experiencing something you don't get an education on how to be a photographer by sitting in a lecture hall and and telling someone teach you how to take a picture like it's cool to know how to use the camera but great photographers get out there and shoot they get out there and take the photo that's what a great photographer does it's good to know how to use the equipment which you can learn how to do online but if we're talking about the future of work being something that's informed more by our ability to create than it is by our ability to be like a

cog in a system or to be someone who's this kind of like process is still gonna be super important everyone's gonna need to have their own process I'm not saying let's eliminate structure in pursuit of creative like creative liberation if you've ever met a creative professional they're very structured they're very structured needs to be tell me about it so I'm not I'm not saying let's eliminate structure in the pursuit of some form I'm saying form is a form of structure you have to have structure enable form but the way in which we enable that form I believe for a lot of people might be a bit more experiential than we could imagine and for those that want to continue to ingrain themselves and you know education is whether it's academia or science or research there's

definitely still going to be a there's definitely still going to be a room for that and space for that and there will still be a market for that but I think what we're really changing is the amount of people that we're able to liberate to live the life that they actually want to live in this world most people don't necessarily want to go to college if they knew if people didn't feel ashamed about not going to school how many people do you think would stay cool so I believe that the way we think about education as a whole will also shift because the current education system is also completely perverse and totally exploitative the idea that we are urging people more than the mortgage for their house and car do go to college twenty

five-year-olds now it's like when you were 25 maybe like when our you know two generations ago you already had a mortgage on a house you already had like your car taking out you're getting loans to your car that you knew you were gonna be paid off and now you're a 25 year old and you're so deep in debt that you're working a job and you're like I'm so I've already spent my house mortgage and my car loans on my college debt yeah it's crazy do you at least yeah if I get a house or a car I'm I'm gonna be in debt for the rest of my life and that's the reality that most people from my generation have lived in and I I do think that is oppression it's not political oppression it's not you know it's a form of

economic violence though from which people don't understand that they actually have another route because there's there's so much not only social shade but institutional shame you can't it's very hard for you to apply for a corporate job and get a corporate job if you drop out of school I should know because I dropped out of school and I applied to 4,000 jobs that's not an exaggeration I did not get a single I did not get a single interview I applied for 4,000 jobs what kind of jobs where does any literally I was on for a year right for the last year that I was in college I was applying for jobs for a year and I didn't get a single whether it was like some random agency some like

small 20 person shop like whatever it didn't matter what kind of company it was like whether it is in like marketing advertising communications like I was applying to every company that I could possibly humanly apply for but I couldn't there the way that I I mean we I still there was still people that I went to college with that were in their graduate program getting an advertising degree that we're still working in unpaid internship yep yeah it's it's always interesting you know people say yeah college is expensive and I'm so in debt now but I have to degree but the most important thing is still what I learned from my friend you know when you said you should do it this way and that's actually what shaped my life yeah

in in culture how many people are collaborating on this project you know it varies because there are certain people who come in and they say hey you know I have the summer off from school or like I'm taking three months to travel in Thailand and I just want to build stuff and I'm like great come join come be a part of stuff let me connect you with people that you can stay with in Thailand let me help you figure out this situation and let me actually if you want to be a part of our community let's figure out a way to get you in grains in community if that's what you like to do if you want to live by yourself that's obviously your that's your personal decision I totally both respect and completely 150 percent support that it's not the answer for everyone I know some friends who that

would drag totally bonkers but that's you know it's it varies and it changes like there there are so many people there people who come in and they say I don't ever want to leave and we say well let's figure it out and there are people who come in and they say you know I want to do this one specific project look I'm really specifically passionate about making this one thing happen and if I can make this one thing happen like I'm gonna be so thrilled so it varies like there's so much this is such a big work of art that it really takes it takes a lot of and it's not only a lot of people it's not quantity of people it's quality of people yeah to make it happen in the right way mm-hmm how do you plan to roll out the project you know on a larger

scale that is something I'll be happy to talk to you about in our next interview because I would rather be able to we have we have work or it's we're in progress right now and so I want to put a loading bar status on this is when I really I really want to talk to you about this when I have something for you and for every our audience to to play with and to really be able to give you the gift of that experience instead of merely explaining it to you but if you are who's listening to this wants to learn more you're welcome to join the telegram group at t dot me slash culture is future which also contains the link to our discord channel where our discord

channel is more comprehensive and more people are actually this is the channel that we organ for more people to talk about actual building fantastic and we'll put a link of that channel also in the description here when will you know that the project has achieved division that you have well if I can help one person live the life they want to live then maybe my life will have meant something so I don't really look at it as this process of like my big vision to change the world which is what I think everyone wants to hear that like everyone wants to hear I'm gonna do this thing that's gonna change everything and people that are changing

everything is where it's so much and I'm like okay that's great and like yes we do want to it's it's more than I see change coming and I want to steward and facilitate new infrastructure to be able to help people live happier lives through the systemic evolution that is already taking place amongst many different people so I just really want to help people be happier and I want to help people connect with more people and more community and build stronger relationships and better projects and more empathy with each other by forging environments where we're actually gaining the ability to be more deeply human and more deeply true

and I think that will change the incentives of a lot of things whether it's how a company is built or whether it's yeah I mean whether it's how a company is built or or anything and whether it's whether it's how we live you know and that is the I I want everyone in the world to have a sense of home and of community a family of connection of shared experience joy and meaning meaning making and anywhere they are in the world and so that's what we're we're undoing you mentioned before you mentioned Bernays now in your view what is the role of the media in this current state of the world that were in

so the media is a factory of illusions that centrally owned and to exploit people I mean I started my business in media but I didn't start in media because I was interested in running media I started my business in media because I studied propaganda theory and I wanted to create a platform that could change the way we thought about these systems and so the first project there's a video I have online it's ironically titled how to media how to move a million hearts and make a million smiles or something like that and I spend the entire time talking about journalists getting murdered and human rights protections and our needs shift our ability to shift these

incentives into a new system something similar to I don't know if you've ever read the book Snow Crash but I didn't really looks for crap okay it's a Neal Stephenson book it's in like he has a very crypto economic science fiction view of the future and and he's an incredible science fiction author well-known for Snow Crash in the Dimond age and I would read the crash I would just suggest that everyone read it just as a baseline if you're interested in science fiction but I didn't read Snow Crash and so three or four years after I had actually created the concept that I had been working on which I now have a few companies that I work with that are working to build which is basically shifting the information model out of

consolidation and into stewarded marketplaces that can build group coherence around unifying separating both facts from fiction and unifying consensus around what is quote unquote true because if you look at something that's true it's usually all media at this stages opinion so if all media is opinion how can we design a front end that inspires us to have people from totally different backgrounds coming together to share and reach some form of common consensus on fact or agreement and to find those releases that release those pressure points and some positive but productive ways not in ways that just release pressure artificially and then how do we create a back-end that

can protect whistleblowers to upload information anonymously for an economic incentive though how do you give someone like Edward Snowden the ability to not endanger life and well-being forever by releasing files that he finds about the exploitation of an entire citizen population Benson though the real platform that I was the real platform that was you know I wanted to create was based on honoring anonymous incentives for whistleblowers to remain anonymous work through a network of trust and actually upload information that needed to be shared for media to actually do its job for journalism let me rephrase for journalism to actually do its job we live in a world where there's a minutiae

of people that actually give a rat's whatever about journalism and most journalism is paid for it like the number of people I've had five people reach out to me this week it must be like I don't know if it's like Christmas and everyone's like trying to get more gifts and so they're reaching out to people but I've had people reached out to me saying I want to write about you and then kind of like almost like wanting me to bribe them hmm and I'm like no I will not I will not give you money to write a story that is so unbelievably unethical damaging and wrong to any person who represents any sense of credibility in your profession and in your industry you should be ashamed you're not a journalist you're

con artist and a thief I'm sorry that was strong but it's really how I feel well it happens though that's how I feel and that's that's the actually the point the tension point for me that made me want to go out there and build build something like this so I have a few companies that are working on it now and if anyone else is working on it it's something that I'd love to talk about because it's a it's a very deep passion of mine too Riaan scent of eyes liberation through cryptography realistically and I think that's the closest tool we've had to actually encouraging political liberation maybe in the last century yeah cool interesting I mean you just mentioned this some pay-to-play ethos that that many people have and and I just wanted

to to ask one thing about that because you also co-founded coined Telegraph and and of course you know in the whole crypto and blockchain space it's quite common that you know people pay for this or that coverage and and it's part of people's media plan to roll out so what's why do you I mean that's one of the reasons that is how they run their media yeah and I don't appreciate it yeah but how do you reconcile that well I mean I I'm not there how do i reconcile I don't encourage it I mean I have people that are messaging me on LinkedIn saying that they've spent two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on an article I'm like yeah I mean it's completely and totally like this is not that's that's no longer at this point

like there's a level at which you just need to brand yourself as just yet this is ads yeah this is not this is not news you can't brand yourself as representing news and information because you're not representing information you're representing capital interests so don't pretend to represent information I mean I have the reason why I mean I have first-hand experience with in and of this and so I mean I can get into it but I think I've said all I need to say and it's true I just I mean it's it's a kind of a pet peeve of mine because you know it's kind of sad that in in a technology that is so important and so a transformative most of the information that many people get is actually just ads in disguise it's either an ad in disguise or it's a purchased capital

it's a bride it's either an ad or it's a bride yeah yeah good point and that's just being aware of that is why I no longer engage in I do not engage in news media I do not read the news I do not engage in the news I want to know something I want to learn about something I will get on a plane I will find the person I want to talk to and I will learn about that thing firsthand yeah cool awesome do you think at some point there will be some kind of revolution you know where incumbents and maybe people who benefit from the current paradigm will just say this can no longer go on that you know people reinvent and and start you know destroying our revenue channels we have to do something about this people say the revolution will be decentralized but

they're missing the point of why people are interested in black shade it's not that the revolution will be decentralized block chains aren't decentralized the revolution will be economic that's it you create better economic incentives for someone to have a job for a politician to their job as a politician and do something else where they're gonna make more money and they're gonna have just as much influence and get just as much whatever then they will leave that job create better systems you don't make an existing system obsolete by attempting to destroy it to fight it to throw rocks at it to kick it shins you make an existing system obsolete by building something that is fundamentally better that's what we have to do yeah good point do you ever get some pushback from from anyone with your projects no I mean

what do you what kind what do you mean by pushback well for example you know um there's people I know they said they got calls you know from the NSA for example and said you know you can't do this no I mean I'm I'm the opposite listen I spend most of my life working with anarchists so I mean I don't even know how to explain it's I don't even know how to explain this it's kind of like you don't really worry about stuff like that when the here around people that are kind of like setting fires and pissing on them and with every step they take you know what I mean it's like there's other like I don't know and now I'm not want a dog because I think most people so let's let's really quickly talk about Anarchy

which is a very misunderstood theory people believe now now people believe that Anarchy is basically like you know burn the system down throw some malt up cocktails let's set off some bombs and let's say like everyone be free and just let's all live in chaos and break into abandoned houses and sleep on the floor which is like the cool that's I mean the last part of that's like the cool part of Anarchy is saying like we don't need the system to live like we're gonna build a life outside of the system and it's the subculture of Anarchy that's actually really interesting I find violence to be abhorrent so violence isn't interesting to me and I don't like engaging in violence but violence and Anarchy aren't tied together and there are a lot of anarchists who identify as anarchist or

voluntary assay but Anarchy has an image that's too closely related to violence and volunteerism is the idea that we just want to live in a world where people voluntarily engage in what they want to engage in and do not have to engage in what they do not want to engage in so volunteerism was really it is spelled by voluntary ISM was really this like another it was like a branch of a subculture that spawned off of theories of Anarchy that could create a more harmonious brand name for a movement that whose very nature is so threatening to institution that it's obviously it's it's obvious intentions are immediately exploited and so their cities with the people who are involved in Anarchy however actually exploring and our key

volunteerism libertarianism any anything you'd like to explore as a political theory I would suggest that people I mean you don't have to take interest in exploring political theory if you have no interest in engaging it but the way that a lot of groups are structured are inherently based on forms of organization and so I look at political theory as just one form of organization and I just really went down the far other path before reaching this kind of harmonious I went down both roads so there's learning what these worlds are like and I've just found myself in this really healthy equilibrium but I think that there's a big misunderstanding from a lot of people about what anarchy is and and and the idea that a person

represents the community of Anarchy or that a person's actions represent the community of Anarchy are actually completely out of alignment with the entire political ideal in and of itself yeah and so I think there's now am I do I personally politically identify in this way no I'm Way more in a bit I personally identify in a way that is more more indigenous than it is artistic because I'm more believe in our relationship our harmony with the earth and and harmony with our fellow man and that's the system that I use to structure I still I mean I I believe in sovereignty but from more of the

indigenous perspective and less of the you know fight for sovereignty against against the person who wronged you it's more saying that we're also caring about the earth as a sovereign person and we're looking for burns he has a process of its collective sovereignty and collective unity and global stewardship of the planet and it's and so I'm far more my political views are actually I think far more spiritual and far more indigenous than they are identifying with this other end of the spectrum but I have to say it's a very when you're entering into a system where every person in the new system is understanding the baseline of free markets as the structure for the world

similar to the wait bill Stevenson perceives like his his future societies that economics are the foundation in the root of the way the world is structured you have to really I I really wanted so like we were talking about education I really wanted to experientially understand where these different communities were coming from and and what were the commonalities what were the behaviors what were the similarities where were the connections where is the overlap and how can you regardless of what community you're working with how can you create new how can you create new unity even if people believe even if people believe completely different things and see the world in completely different ways and how can you find a way to create maybe not a full bridge

but how can you find a way to create little bridges and from creating little bridges how can you encourage a deeper sensibility around our shared humanity and then and the shared humanity that we should feel an experience with and for our planet cool Tony who are your role models you know okay this is actually a really rough question because I I don't actually know like there's some strong women that I really I've never liked here's the weird thing I never really like looked up to someone but I've never really I've always lived my life in a way where I've been my own master and I think that's why I was so I hung out

with so many people in these different groups is because I didn't grow up with parents who told me what to do I grew up in a house basically by myself because my parents were always traveling I've taken care of myself generally in a lot of different ways in my whole life and so I never lived in this world where I had a master or an authority or even perceived teachers as authority figures that her teachers were my friends and they were people that I hung out we've been engaged with and so I guess that because I've lived so much of my life with this philosophy of self mastery there are actually a lot of beings that are I would say most of the people that I admire actually spirits

um and the spirits that I admire the spirits that I admire aren't necessarily present on this earth that might sound really strange and I'm sorry if you don't know what I am talking about I I wish that you know in some ways they think it would be it would be amazing to have people embrace this this level of of consciousness and and in other ways I'm just letting humanity evolve as it's evolving because what is in my control I'm just kind of in gating responding to life as it happens but there are a few women who I really like add I admire Dolly Parton I admire young Beyonce like there are there are some really strong

powerful I admire Elinor Ostrom even though I haven't probably been as deep in her work as as many other people have there are many people who I admire and I have a great deal of respect for I also want to throw it out there that not all of the people I admire our women there are a ton of men who are my friends and women who are my friends that I admire I try and surround myself with people admire because then we become better people together and it is that it is that admiration that I think is that's that's the foundation for a form of love is admiring I think my greatest I my greatest sense of admiration is for the

invisible world and then for humans it's a it's my human relationships it's a it's a different kind of it's a different kind of admiration and so I I that might be different for me than many other people and that's not to say that there I don't have a great sense of respect and that I feel I can learn so much from people and but I find that most of my work is yeah I mean most of my work is or most of what I admire is not something most people can present and I am okay with that and I I love human beings for being human beings and and you know making

their mistake and growing and learning and being who they are and and most of all I look when Humanity is is good to itself and when it really reaches a higher state of consciousness cool Tony what are you learning at the moment oh gosh I mean what I was really just talking about I'm learning more about what I mean I'm not under the impression I I kind of M just my friend said it really well the other day and I wish I could rephrase him but he says I'm really just sitting and seeing what comes to me and in exploring what comes

to me then I can understand what I am what I am attracting or what I am supposed to attract and so what I'm learning is largely what comes to me I'm not learning as a process of forcing myself to understand new knowledge or as you know reading a lot of books I have to tell you this a lot of people are shocked when I say this I don't really read I read science fiction pretty exclusively I don't read really non-fiction books I read white papers I write but I do not really I do not really read a lot and I do not really sit down when I'm learning something I

want to learn a process or I want to have an experience that can teach me something where I want to do something and maybe I just learned differently I used to be an avid reader I read through like the whole library when I was a when I was a kid and I used to be a deeply avid reader but at a certain at a certain point I think that there was this moment where I just decided that the way I wanted to learn was by doing and I just started doing and so what I'm learning right now is I'm learning more from what is is coming into my path and I am learning how to be better at calling experience his or

situations in and I am yeah I mean I'm learning as I go I think I think we're always learning I'm learning from every person who's around me at all times and I think if we really yeah I mean I think we're always learning and growing and yeah I'm very I'm very honored to be doing the work that I'm doing and even though I want to circle back and say even though I mentioned this one meditation that I have that there are there is it's it's not it's not one person that I love over any other person it is that is the all all of the light and all of the goodness that that is the

endless compassion of the invisible world and that is my role model and that is what I admire and that is who I want to be I want to be the endless compassion of the invisible world because it's a state and it's an energy and so that's that really is is is the thing I give one popular example to provider one example to provide clarity but I don't want to give that example in a way that prioritizes that example over the unbelievable stewardship of the cosmos to our planet Tony what is in

your view what is one action that everyone can do today to build a better world be a better person I mean that's the easiest thing you can do just be a better person notice if someone's not having a good day notice if there's someone who's struggling to get a door open because they're holding like 6:00 in Tanner's of coffee notice these things just just notice people notice where they're at notice what they're doing and just be a good person be kind be considerate love yourself more and in turn love others for who they are just love and once you reach that place in yourself you you want to share that you want the

world to experience it that state and so yeah I mean I would just say that the best thing that you can do to make an impact on the world is to first impact yourself and then impact yourself to be a better person and then when you become a better person start positively impacting the lives of others mm-hmm yeah be the change you want to see in the world yeah do you think you'll still work with blockchain technology in five years yes what makes you so sure I wouldn't have I wouldn't have picked a lot of the companies that I picked if I thought they would have been gone in five years yeah good point Tony did I forget to ask anything you

know was there anything you wanted to add that would wrap something up or compliment something that you did you mentioned that's a really good question I just want to say that I hope every person who's out there or every person who's listening and that I don't know you and I haven't met you yet hi um I hope good things for you and I hope that if you're going through something right now that you know that everything is going to be o.k and if you're not I'm glad that you are doing well and I hope that you are happy and that you are enjoying your life and if

you are not enjoying your life get up and move and do something that you love don't just do it because you feel like people will enjoy it do it for you and when you are living that joy for you you will expand that joy like a field to the world around you fantastic Tony where can people find you my my telegram is the same as my Twitter it's Tony Lane see at I LA and II see and the link to our telegram group is T dot me slash culture is future which is also the same as our Twitter handle

cool Tony this was really great thanks a lot for taking time yeah thank you so much for thank you for the time thank you for listening and I'm still feel so happy that you had me on today so thank you for thank you for your time and for being so wonderful thanks so much for joining us today more info on our guests and our sponsors is in the show notes of this episode and on the podcast web site the blockchain does calm to help people find it podcast it's important that you download subscribe and give it a top rating and review on iTunes or on the podcast platform of your choice I'm Manuel staggers and I thank you very much for listening

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