Have We Topped, Aster vs Hyperliquid & Tether's $500B Valuation | Weekly Roundup

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You approach this two ways. You can't be caught in the middle. You're either a trader and are glued to the screen and like monitoring anime and accounts and you know or you're not. Where you get slaughtered is like when you're you're just like in the middle and you try to be a trader and you try to be an investor, long-term investor. >> I so agree. I so agree. >> Don't tell me you're a long-term trader and you're refreshing Coin Gecko every five minutes. Like you've got it wrong. >> This episode is brought to you by Block Damon. You'll hear more about them later in today's episode. Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell any investments or products. This podcast is forformational purposes only.

And the views expressed by anyone on the show are solely their opinions, not financial advice or necessarily the views of Blockworks. Our hosts, guests, and the Blockworks team may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the roundup. No Rob today, so we are free to bash Rob and talk about his horrible takes on the pod. But no, I hope you guys have enjoying having Rob. Rob is off uh I think to probably Token. I don't actually know where he is, but I think he's probably at Token. Um Santi and I are getting some real work done back home.

>> That's right. >> Look at us in the button-down shirts. >> I know, right? >> What's going on, man? It only took us five years to just, you know, wear Maybe it's the state of the times, you know? We just got to be more enterprise for for blockchain. >> I thought I thought it's when the market is peak froth, you're supposed to wear t-shirts and hoodies and then you go into a bare market and you're like, "Oh, I do have to appease to the suits." You know, >> right? What is the most frothy peaky thing you've heard this week? >> Oh, okay. Two I mean two for you. Tether raising at 500 billion. I mean is a little little frothy. and Nvidia investing 100 billion into open AAI for I think it was 10 gigawatts of data centers.

>> Uh for me it was an ETF on DATs >> that was just felt CD it felt like credit default drops CDS squared you know like big short. >> Yeah. Yeah. God at times >> I just rewatched the big short actually times like these go watch that movie you know I think I'm gonna be you remember the scene when they're in Vegas and in in Michael Bur's not Michael Bur Steve Carell is like calling his trader he's like sell short anything >> short it yeah >> and I'm gonna go to token next week I might I might give you that call >> short it short it let's talk markets actually so we um we started the week with the biggest liquidation cascade of the year or in many years I think at least definitely of the year. Um, and I think it spooked a lot of people. People

basically said, um, you know, been kind of calling for the top. It feels frothy. Maybe this is the top. You've got some other very frothy things like, um, what we I mean, those three things that we just mentioned, right? Tether is raising at 500. Uh, you've got every IPO that hits the market is just rip rips higher. Um, how are you feeling about just the market and the cycle and >> Yeah. What how are you feeling about things? Tell you the truth, I haven't been able to look at that. I'm not checking my portfolio much, which is which is a blessing. I I was on CNBC uh uh yesterday or day before and then everyone they asked me the same question. Um Q4 historically has been a good year, like a good quarter for crypto historically. Um you know, feels

like September is always a bit choppy in the markets. Um but look, we had a rate cut um that I think boats favorable. Um the thing uh okay people want to say okay what should you be monitoring if you want to trade this thing ETF inflows I think are probably the primary parameter you want to be looking at um and that I think is just going to continue to be the main driver. Uh how am I feeling about it? I'm not touching my portfolio. Um I still think that um so I was looking at um like options I think also are pretty indicative of what traders kind of are expecting. There's there's like pretty equal like um there's like 90k and 130k as as key

levels. I think traders just expecting volatility. But the reality is like dude, we we've been in this cycle and it takes one tweet to rattle markets in a very big way and I think we're just in that state. Um so I don't know if Bitcoin holds um I think we have alts running. Uh the thing I'm most worried about again is just this stat stuff. I think it could just like get pretty messy really quickly and just don't like it. I'm just seeing a lot continued just nonsense in that department >> and uh I think it's just sign of the times.

>> Yeah. So you're not touching your portfolio. You're not selling anything. You're not you're not buying anything new. You're not buying a >> No. So I missed that. We should talk about it. I feel and for I have for a while that we are in the second half of the cycle. When I feel like I'm in the second half of the cycle, I want to consolidate into things that I feel good owning long term. Bitcoin I feel very good at. So I am rotating when I have some spare time on the weekend just selling stuff that has ran up quite a bit this cycle >> and like plasma just um launched. You have a you have you know these are pretty pretty big um upticks. I mean multi-billion dollar valuations. Um I I want to buy stuff that has endured at

least one cycle. >> Yeah. >> I mean like the thing the stuff that hasn't gone through one cycle I think typically has the largest draw down and so you know I feel very comfortable holding Bitcoin and I want to continue to rotate stuff in a Bitcoin as I vest and stuff. >> Yeah, I feel the same way. I actually just did rotate. I I I just did the consolidation because I was feeling the same way. Yeah, I was >> What were you most exposed? What were your kind of your biggest wins this cycle?

>> Um I had a lot of Athena. Uh so I I actually sold sold all of my Athena. Um I sold I had a bunch of Kaito from like the airdrop. Um and I had bought some more. So I sold sold Kai. I'm I'm really only holding six. Uh, I I sold all my Fartcoin. Um, yeah, like just a bunch of other random stuff that like you don't really realize through the cycle that you accumulate this stuff and then you're like sitting on different stuff. So now I actually only hold six different coins now, which is Bitcoin, ETH Soul um Hyperlid uh, Avalanche, and Ripple actually.

>> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> Why? Uh, yeah. Should we talk about Athena and just double click there? Because look, the stable coin thesis has been all the rage. Um, you you talked about Tether raising at 100 $500 billion valuation. Uh, and then you have Circle, which you know, um, I think they announced some interesting stuff this week around like reversible kind of transactions and whatnot. But I'm curious like ENA, what drove your decision to sell that one versus cold? >> First off, I I think Guy is probably the I was going to say not I was going to say single greatest executor in crypto right now. He he I don't know if it's single greatest, but he's top five right now. I I I think like very very very highly of guy. Um it's just that

sometimes no matter how good of an executor you are, if the cycle if you get caught on the wrong side of a cycle, uh you're going to you're going to be in for a nasty time for an extended period of time, a year, two years, three years, however long it is. I believe very strongly in Guy and Athena on a long-term horizon. Uh, I just think that like when you to me the the market feels extremely frothy. Um, and I think you want to get I think you want to just I just feel safer sleeping at night when I'm in just like to me safer things like this doesn't feel like the time in the cycle to be exposed to maybe things that are further out on the risk spectrum. And I'd say there's things like Fartcoin that are way out on the risk spectrum, but there are things like

Athena that are maybe like medium-term where like I don't know two months ago I felt great about holding it even a month ago. And now I'm just seeing these things where I mean I saw a fund raise this morning with like a very notorious crypto scammer is on the is on the deck and it's like >> the people who are raising right now, the people who are actually they got 30 million of committed capital already. It's like there these these are just >> from this startup >> signs of the times. Yeah. Like this this this company that should never be raising in the first place, they're able to raise capital because of how frothy the market is. And I just I just see these little things and I probably have PTSD because I didn't sell at the top in 2017. I didn't sell at the top in 2021.

I'm I'm probably going to I'm going to lose. I'm going to I'm going to People are going should hold if you like Athena, you should just keep holding Athena and like it'll probably go up because Athena's great and Guy's a great operator. But uh I'd rather be a little safer this cycle. I'm also I think similar to you right now spending so more more of my time on Blockworks than I really ever spent. It's just like seven days a week. It's crazy right now and I don't like the feeling of having trading getting >> like what should I be doing with these tokens getting in my head at all? Um >> yeah, absolutely.

>> Yeah. >> Um no, look, it makes sense. Um I was just looking at the 7-day and 30-day performance of the top 100 crypto assets. Like some of the worst draw downs here have been uh pump had a big run up from 28.3 a couple weeks ago up up now to hit 0.9 sorry it hit like 9 billion. Uh it dipped to two then went to nine temporarily and it is now sitting at five. So it's over the last seven days gone down 33%. Hype has come down 28%.

Pudgy Penguins 27%. Bonk down, Worldcoin down, even though it's up on a 30-day quite a bit, 40%. Wonder what that was driven by. Uh, UniS swap feels like everything's just getting chopped. >> World coin Worldcoin was a DAT. I think Worldcoin was Tom Lee saying that they're going to add Worldcoin to the to the Bit mine or something like that. >> Oh, okay. And then things that have performed quite well on a 7 day period >> really just like a >> not much has done not much has done well on seven day. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's down >> seven day.

>> Yeah. It's interesting. So on the 30-day pump again up 87%. Story I know you guys had a conference I think in Korea. Um it was up 50%. Immutable Providence >> I actually got to give a shout out to Story. We did this event with Story in Korea. I have never seen someone execute partnership deals like uh Sy is the founder of story. I this guy is a um just I've never actually seen someone execute the it was like I mean K-pop demon hunters c guy person who created K-pop demon hunters like uh uh Baby Shark like the Parasite the the director of paras like he is just doing deals

left and right like the Wall Street Journal of uh Korea like I mean the the names that came to this event we we could never have if you are an American going into Korea you couldn't have gotten a single one of these names. There were like 30 of these names there. Uh it was it was pretty remarkable to see. >> I look I paid attention like I still don't understand what IP IP does. Like what's a oneliner two liner of what this thing does? Like they're putting blockchain like IP rights on on the blockchain. >> Um I think probably the idea is like AI is going to train on all this I well this is this is maybe what they would say is like AI is going to train on all the all this IP and uh right now they just steal it and maybe you need a way

to monetize it. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Look, >> I missed that trade. I >> the the more interesting thing I So, IP on the blockchain, I don't I don't know if it's real or not. It's a very early thing, but uh Sy gave an opening talk at the origin summit. And it's really not about IP on the blockchain. It's about Korea as a country. And I would really recommend >> uh people go listen to this talk on Korea. Here, I wrote down actually some of the stats as as I was watching it. Um, uh, South Korea stats. Second most paid ChatGBT subscribers in the world is South Korea. The number one's obviously the US. The second most paid ChatGBT subs is is uh, South Korea. More Korean Juan was traded against crypto than US

dollars. >> Yeah. >> So, more Korean Juan traded against crypto than USD. They have the number one YouTube video of all time, the number one boy band, the number one girl band, the number one rated movie in the world, the number one most viral soundtrack, the number one show on Netflix right now. Like Korea is a >> Wow, it's massive. >> Yeah. Yeah, Korea is uh very >> dude. Terra. >> Terara. Yeah, exactly. So, >> it's a Kimchi trade. Um, if you have been in crypto, >> it's funny. Someone sent me a video of like it was like probably 400 people at this event and they're all looking at a screen and then it zooms in in the screen and someone's just perpetrating like >> Yeah. Yeah. That was a I saw that like they have esports but like not per >> Yeah. It was nuts.

>> Yeah. It's it's a fascinating culture. I didn't make it out to Korea blockchain week. I was there last year. Been to Korea a couple times. Like if you're in crypto, it pays to understand what's going on in Korea. It just is such an important market. >> Yeah. >> Um and has been historically. So yeah, that's interesting. Uh is is there are some of the chats like live talks there like posted on YouTube like if people want to learn more about this summit? >> Yeah, I think it's it might be on YouTube. It might just go on either story or Blockworks' Twitter account and you can see some of the videos. Um we did actually Blockworks live stream the whole thing. So just go to the front of the live stream. You should watch SY's talk. It was quite good. Um so Anom had this tweet. He actually mentioned you

guys. He said um let me pull pull this up. I don't know if you saw this. Um, >> Anom has been quite bearish actually as of late. I think he's one of the guys. >> Yeah. So, I wanted to get your take on this. So, he said, I'm going to, this is a bit of a longer thing. I'm going to read it though. He said, Doge is a good an uh analog for this cycle. 2021 was batshit crazy with how high we pumped altcoins, co crash directly into never seen uh Fed assisted economic stimulus. This cycle's been lower highs across the board for most alts and liquidity has flowed elsewhere. I simultaneously believe that we've seen the peak of crypto price action driven purely on speculation about future growth and also that we are entering the most bullish period for businesses

for businesses augmented by blockchain rails. Uh the revenue meta being a term is just a reflects is just reflective of how far distance from reality crypto markets have traded this past decade. The difficulties in determining how to get long this new trend. two main drivers of majority of revenues in crypto. Users willing user willingness to absorb high fees because of how much speculation is present. Efficiency of low cost and low cost of blockchain rails compared to traditional systems. We are near peak of the former and we'll see more success stories focused on the latter. Salana has dominated both of these verticals and still think it's valued way too low comparatively to other assets. Also cool to see teams like Inversion that realize how transformative blockchain rails are while also being pragmatic enough to

realize that it may be more efficient to improve existing businesses with distribution rather than build everything from the ground up. Is side note is Ansom an investor? >> He's not. He reached me he DM' me. I think I shared with him in a deck way back. I invested in his company uh Bold Pen. We've known each other for a while. Um and he he DM'd me said hey congrats man. this is, you know, good to see you back in the, you know, on the driver's seat or whatever. And but no, I I I just retweeted this. So, >> he said, so to conclude, uh, we can link this in the show notes, but to conclude, he basically said, um, I don't agree with rate cuts being the main driver for bull market continuation. It's also clear to me that we do not need lower rates for bull market price action, as

we've seen with how high stocks and crypto have performed since late 2022. Um, uh, D. It looks like stocks are parabolic, momentum slowing on crypto assets. We've enter we've entered a period of the most uncertainty we've ever we've had in a while with regards to the economy. I'm expecting lower over the next six months and higher into the back half of 26 through 28. Would flip bullish on crypto if Salana weekly closes at 250. Bullish weekly closes above two uh 120. Optimal strategy at the moment is to sit majority in cash and have an ape stack set aside for re researching new launches and finding outliers with momentum and price action like pump IP and aster. I want to bid 90k Bitcoin, 25 to 30 hyperlquid, undecided and soul and pump. What are

your thoughts when you read something like this? >> Look, got to hand it to him. He's been fairly right on some of his calls. And I think Anson is one of those guys that really is um you know, pretty good trader. He's had really good calls. He had the Salana call right. I think he was you know reasonably early on on on um hype and pump um and and you know trading around memecoins. So you know the guy understands like the order book flows and whatnot. Um I I don't know. I don't know what to make of it to be honest. Like I'm not as close on flows. Um, but it does feel like the market wants to go lower. And in in those instances, look, you either approach this two ways. You can't be

caught in the middle. You're either a trader and are glued to the screen and like monitoring Ansim and accounts and, you know, or you're not. Where you get slaughtered is like when you're you're just like in the middle and you try to be a trader and you try to be an investor, long-term investor. >> I so agree. I so agree. Don't tell me you're a long-term trader and you're refreshing Coin Gecko every five minutes. Like, you've got it wrong. >> Or you're flipping based on a handsome tweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, look, and the other thing is like, you're not going to be an expert on all this stuff. So, if we had a live stream right now and you asked everyone who who missed Aster, you probably would have had like 80% of them just raise their hands like, "Oh, I missed it. I was late to the game." And

then and then psychologically, it puts you in such a bad spot because you're like the catchup trade is what kills you. like, oh, you know, I I I was late to the game. And you buy Aster and goes down 20%, then you sell it and you buy back. I'm like, why don't you for a second just go look at Aster and go look at Hyperlquid and say, is there something real here? Am I willing to hold this thing for a year? And like I just feel that like how how many people have you met that tell you, oh, I discovered this thing, Bitcoin and ETH, super early and then I didn't make much of it and then I bought it and then I sold it. I'm like, >> yeah. And then in hindsight, it's like you could have just like sat there, developed a thesis, re-underwrote that

thesis, but like just make up your mind. Are you going to be day trading this thing or are you going to be holding it for 5 years? Don't change your mind. Like just, you know, but anyways, um I it never hurts to have cash. Um like are we going to see Bitcoin below 100,000? Yes. like 90% confidence that we'll see it at some point below 90. And so if you if you have if you're if you feel overly exposed, maybe hold cash and be in a position where you're going to be feel you're going to feel great buying it at 90 if you if you love the asset.

But the problem is most people are overly exposed, right? And so if you're if you're max long on something like Bitcoin at 106 or whatever, it goes down to 90, you a don't have cash, b you're going to be, you know, panicking thinking it's going to go down to 50. And so maybe just hold five. It's so psychological. Even if you have >> or maybe just don't do anything and just hold your or just hold your Bitcoin. Just don't touch your Bitcoin. >> That that is true. >> I think that's the honestly the best thing for 98% of people to do. Just don't touch your Bitcoin. But d some of the people that I think have made the most amount of money is guys that I was telling at like 2014 like Bitcoin's like a couple hundred bucks or whatever. It's like dude put a mill and they were

family offices like put a million bucks do not touch it for 10 years. And those >> you know who I think you know who I think did this I was hearing about the other day is do you remember the institutional case for the institutional case for digital assets by John Feffr. >> John Feer? Yeah. The KKR guy. >> J John Feffer. John Fever wrote the piece in 2017 that was like this PDF got passed around. It felt like the world like it was like everyone's reading this article. It's called the institutional case for digital assets. I think it's by this guy John Feffer PF ff I think it is. And um someone mentioned the other day they're like yeah you should have just done what people should have just done done what John did. Like oh what John do? He's like they're like, "Oh yeah, he wrote this piece, loaded up the

stack at did it in 2017, market went down, bought more in 2018 and 2019 and then has just walked away from the industry basically and hasn't touched anything and has just ridden it from 3K, 5K, 7K up to 120 and he's he's he's sitting pretty." >> I mean, that that's sort of what I feel when you asked me earlier about what I'm doing with my portfolio. I'm now because of inversion taking a super long-term view on things that I just want to literally wake up in 10 years and say, "Okay, is this thing going to persist, endure? Is there durable stuff here other than Bitcoin? I don't know.

I I honestly don't know." And then the question is, is Bitcoin going to outperform the compounding of what you see in the stock market? And that's I think the point that Anson is making here, which is I'm of the mind this cycle that it just there's a couple of different dynamics here. You can get exposure to crypto through other instruments and other ways that weren't possible in other cycles. And I think that has certain implications of how tokens actually behave. >> Coinbase, Robin Hood, Galaxy stock, Circle Stock. Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh, one, the OBSC, right? If you buy the ETF through your brokerage account, very different. I mean, of course, you have to trust like custodians and the setup of of of Black Rockck and whatnot, but for most people, you know, when Normy's asking, "Hey, what should I do?" I'm

like honestly go buy IBIT or something like keep do not like most people are not equipped to do it themselves and so um but then you know I I just I don't want to get into the fundamental discussion but like is Ethereum worth 300 I don't know what is it now 300 340 500 billion what is it >> oh god I don't even want to go >> it is it is 400 is it 500 billion 483 fully diluted.

Is it worth that? Like it was cranking up REV and if you price it on that basis, what would you rather own? Tether or ETH? It's funny because Tether is now valued a bit more than >> That's funny. Yeah. >> Who had a nice tweet about Tether around look sign of the times. It's like um I think it was Tushar if you want to pull up his tweet. He he was tweeting something about uh tether along the same lines of circle which is like these businesses stable coin issuers are you know some of them have more than others but rates come down that business gets impacted.

Yeah exactly >> yeah so two said te tether's raising 20 at 500 there's currently 173 billion of USDT outstanding the market in the market expects interest rates to average 3.6% 6% over the next year given the expected Fed cuts. This implies 6.2 billion in revenue for Tether. That comes out to a 77x multiple. Obviously, three threats to the sustainability of the earnings. Uh, one, lower interest rate rates means less revenue for stable coin issuers. This is true for all of the stable coin issuers, not just Tether. Two, post Genius Bill, there are a lot more stable coins coming to market with huge amounts of distribution.

WhatsApp, Facebook, etc. Um, you know, maybe would try to do it, things like that. And three, as the USDH discussion showed, uh this was the hyperlquid conversation from a few weeks back, there's increasing pressure for cryptonative stablecoin issuers to pass their interest income back to holders and developers. So yeah, all all good points. >> Yeah. Who is uh do you have any insight into that round? Like who would be giving them 20 billion? the boss of the world like or g like the the same guys that invested in Binance.

>> I think you should look at the people who are investing in Binance. Um I think you should also look at the people who are investing in uh some of these mega open AI Nvidia type deals. Uh these big data center type deals. Um and you should look at the capital partners behind those deals. Uh, and you should look at the connections to Howard Leutnik and Caner who is by the way just on a fundraising tear. I mean Tanner Caner like you see these >> for crypto is like Caner's like number one by a countrywide mile.

>> Like we we met with the Caner guys and they kind of walked us through a bit of their playbook of just like how how they're doing these like they've got the they got the distribution into the webinars. The webinar converts into the lead list, converts into the one-on-one calls into the dinner. like they've got they've got fundraising down better than anybody I've ever met. And um yeah, I think Paulo and I mean Caner took a bet and a risk on on on Paulo and Tether back in the you know years ago and and banked them and uh I think there's I think Caner actually owns what 5% of >> I was thinking about that on the shower thought >> who had bought in Tether and had ownership in and um you know there there were times where

like not long ago like during the prior administration where like they were fing tether and I don't know if you like if you had the capital it's one of those counter signals like you want to maybe and this goes back to Anom's point is you want to bid when everyone is running the other way you know it's like and I think that's the bet that Caner did I mean that is probably going to be single-handedly his best trade in his life >> right >> building can from the ground up right but it's like 4% of this business is monumental it's 40 billion >> no two 20 billion The what the raise?

>> Yeah. No, if he owns 4% of Tether. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 20 billion. >> Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. >> Anyways, um, good for them, honestly. Across 30 plus networks and 180 endpoints, Block Damon Earnstack unites staking and DeFi into a single institutional toolkit for crypto rewards with multi-layered security, full asset control, and 247 support. Block Damon Earnstack is built for scale and regulatory clarity. Non-custodial staking and seamless DeFi access allin one stack. Direct access to DeFi with no intermediate smart contract or vaults.

To book a demo, make sure to click the link in the show notes or head over to BlockDamon Earnstack to find out more. Thanks to BlockDamon for making today's episode possible. The machine economy is here. Devices are monetizing data for their users all over the world. Tokenized robots are generating revenue for token holders. The first machine economy free zone is live in the Emirates and it's all happening on Peak, the machine economy computer. Head to peak.xyz XYZ to find out how you can benefit from the age of automation or click the link in the show notes to find out more. As always, investments in blockchain technology involve risk terms and conditions apply.

>> You've been following Aster CZ. >> I mean, yes. Uh I I missed it. I didn't put a put a position. Did you? >> No. >> Yeah. >> No. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, what do you what just maybe zooming out from like the price of the token of Aster? Like, what do you make of just I mean, this is the first like real competition this market for uh against Hyperlid. Um >> yeah, >> what do you make of it? >> Um well, should we give a quick overview? I mean, it sounds like look, CC at one point woke up. CC's back the helm of Binance. Um and he you know obviously you poke a bear enough and he wakes up and obviously a lot of teams you know probably Binance exchanges but also crypto native teams like Solanas

are saw hyperl and what they did and they want to do something about it. CC being the phenomenal builder that he is launched aster in competition and to you know capture that opportunity it's deployed on B&B chain um and it's captured decent amount of volume >> I think others too ETH Salana arbitum I think or is it just B&B >> no you're you're probably right on that um but it's gotten decent amount of traction um a lot of other B&B chain tokens have rallied as a result >> it's gotten a lot of traction you should say it's gotten a >> No it's it's gotten a lot of traction for sure.

>> Um, it reminds me a lot when um you had uh what was it when unis swap was all the rage. I think B&B responded with it with its own AMM like DEX. What was that? Pancake Swap. >> Pancake Swap had a ton of traction. What you need to remember is you know by B&B like the chain has all that distribution from Binance the exchange which the largest exchange in the world and so you know when when Binance launches something it immediately gets traction because it has the mind share it has the distribution um is it going to persist um I don't know it would be interesting to look at

like what Pancake Swap has done since right like you know unis swap is still unis swap um but yeah something to you know I I don't know It's too early to tell for me, but obviously impressive that they launched it. Um, especially in a space where most other things haven't really gotten off the ground of the purpose space, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if people remember Pancake Swap. So, Pancake Swap, was that summer of 21? >> Yeah. This was like peak DeFi summer. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think it was summer of 21. They I mean they ripped it hit like five or ten billion in TVL, fell, got cut in half, then ran right back up to like five or 10 billion and then just kind of like slow dragged down for years and now I think it sits around like two or three

billion of TVL. Um Aster is interesting. So Hyperlid I thought this chart by H put this chart together of volume versus OI. >> Yeah, >> we can pull it up right here. You see this? This is the uh 24-hour volume and the open interest of the different per uh dexes. Hyperl, lighter, aster edex paradex orderly jupiter. So, hyperlquid and aster hyperlquid did 5 billion in volume. Aster did three billion. But hyperlquid had 15 billion of oi compared to aster's 368 million.

What do you make when you see those two numbers to to me? Like I think the to me I see this I'm like oh someone's just washing a bunch of volume through Aster but there's there's no real OI on it. Um but what do you make of this? >> Yeah, I think so. Um so I don't know this. Do you know the only reason that the why you'd be doing that is for some sort of rewards, right? like you're farming um and trying to get you know a lot of times the airdrop is is determined. >> I mean that's like most of the like edex I think edex is going to have a big I think it's the one of the the hot airdrop farming things right now. It's like why is there a billion billion and a half volume?

>> Yeah, I I think open interest is is is a far more enduring and interesting stat here and it's staggering, right? I mean nothing really comes close to what Hyperlid is doing. Um yeah cuz that that relationship is pretty damning right I mean what's that five billion in volume yeah that's 33 that's like a third and you have you know very different dynamic with uh Aster >> yeah that's one10enth >> yeah yeah >> talk to me about uh it's funny so Mike I was talking to Mike months ago about hyperl and he's like how he's like look I don't I don't your >> Mikeo. Yeah. My co-founder. And he said

uh he's like I'm not sure I see it. He's like I get it, but like he's like I think people are too quick to forget that these per there's always the next great per platform that's going to take on the sexes. And yeah, Hyperlid seems like it's doing quite well, but like he's like, I feel like everyone's forgotten like GMX and DYDX and like that we were just these things were just fighting and then we moved on to the next one and there's always the next one. And um maybe shed some light on like 2020, 2021, DYDX, GMX, just like the the long evolution of per stexes. >> It's well, it's the holy grail, right?

I've invested in in a few of these. I looked at the round of DYD uh DYDX ended up passing. It was too expensive. I think three arrows that round, you know, made sense like CZ being like at the time like one of the most, you know, prominent like traders. Um and they were using it extensively. It was not a cheap round and then GMX I had a small position in that. It's it's it's a holy grail, right? It was like everyone and the thesis is something along the lines of, you know, per killer product since, you know, uh Arthur Hayes kind of kind of and and um Bit mix, right? They are the money makers for exchanges. Um and and it's a super novel product. It should catch. It should work on chain.

And there's like a variety of reasons why they haven't really worked before. um you could have pointed to like slow execution environments or high fees back in the day. Um and then some sort of like internal stuff like the team wasn't as competent. Um and and I think just you know without diagnosing specific protocols but like um a lot of times like if you were to talk to traders like I remember looking at DYDX a lot of the there was very heavy concentration among certain traders it wasn't as um it wasn't as efficient to do it on chain. It hadn't been I think until Hyperlid came around. Um and by

the way are you there because you're >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm here. I'm here. >> You just froze it. Yeah. So, I I think um it's one of those where like we talked about poly market last episode. I think in this case as it relates to per you just have um a much more different execution environment, low fees which allow people to do it without because because a real comparison is traders don't really care whether you're doing it in a centralized exchange or a decentralized exchange. It's like where do I get the best execution? And historically, execution on chain was nowhere near execution offchain. And so you wouldn't do it on your right mind unless you wanted to play these airdrops or whatever. But Hyperlid is actually just very novel. And it reminds me a lot

of, you know, Hyperliquid, I think, cracked that nut in a very interesting way in the same way that Curve way back in the day cracked the stable coin swaps. >> Yeah. like and this is was like a key thesis Ben and I paraph we were sitting there because you know Kevin who runs the quant fund was trading these stable coins doing like stable coin arbitrage and the credit fund and he's like wait a minute guys like it's it's actually quite interesting it is cheaper to you get best pricing on chain through curve than what you do with coinbase like if you wanted to go from USDT to USDC and that was like a huge aha moment for us at the firm it's like okay like this is there's something here because it's so rare to get better execution onchain

versus offchain and I think that's why I think hyperlquid has worked. Now someone in the here might say wait a minute like GMX was pretty good. The way what you need to look at when you're looking at perk is how's the funder rate calculated? Um how is that being calculated and are you getting good execution and sometimes it's a function of liquidity is very low. Um, so like when you talk about Hib's quote about open interest, yeah, if if there's not a lot of OI, if the if it's not really um if you can't really trust the way the oracle works on chain, like you know, it it's not going to be viable for traders, especially traders that put on big size. And so anyways, >> that's my conclusion. I don't know if if you're familiar with other perplexes or

or or why hyperlink would really just work the way it did. >> No, I mean people are looking at like Ed people like Edjax and Lighter and stuff like that, but I don't I'm actually look I'm looking at the platforms right now. um like for the aster pair itself oi is six times higher on hyperlquid while the volume is a billion versus 2.5 billion platform verse plat like I don't know it seems like a lot of this volume is either just fake or wash volume or um yeah I I don't know I'm I think basically it's a CZ trade right I think that's it I I actually think this as I'm looking at these things like it has nothing to do with per or whatever it's like see how do you bet on CZ and uh it's like if you can it's like it's like

Elon starting a new company. It's like just take my money just like just gonna like put a blindfold on just like take my money. It's like CZ is like starting a new thing. It's like just take my money. Um I'm not >> at a time where B&B just hit an all-time high of cross a thousand. >> BNB what did BNB ICO at? 10 cents. I think BNB ICO at it's just hit a thousand dollars, right? So, you've got so many people who have made I mean, you and I know people have probably made a hundred million off just BN BNB, right? Like, there are people who have made so much life-changing money from just BNB and Binance. Like, >> BNB is a top five um crypto asset, right behind Ripple um and and quite ahead of Salana. And so, I'm super impressive

what he's done and it really is just a reflection of the industry, right? So again, you're not going to you look at that, you either missed it or you made a lot of money. Either way, you're going to you're going to support this project. >> Yeah. >> Um >> the other thing that I wanted to just bring up is a interesting this week as we think about big fund raise. You have bulk trade. >> Um just raise capital. It's a reasonably small round 8 million. It was led by robot and sixman ventures. Um you know, sixman has been very active in >> Oh yeah. This was the trade trade anything. Did you did you do this one?

>> No, I didn't. I mean, indirectly through sixman. Um, but you know, you had really good mostly the Salana Cabal kind of investing in this. I think this is a response. This is Salana response to hyperlquid. >> Oh, interesting. >> Just reading behind totally was part of the round and you had big brain and sixman and Wintermute and some of the bigger guys. Look, for a while Salana has tried to, you know, I think they were caught off size with Hyperlquid and they were thinking they're sitting there and saying what happened because you had drift. >> Yeah.

>> And but it, you know, hadn't really gotten to this nowhere near the scale and you haven't had a really good per in Salana for and so this is I think the restart and an initiative and so we'll see. Yeah. >> I think internally the Salana team is just this is probably one of the biggest misses that Salana's had over. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the thing they're most nervous about right now. >> That's a best that's a better way to put it. They're definitely very nervous as is everyone else about Hyperlink and what they've done.

>> Totally. Totally. Um all right, let's talk IPOs and fundraises and things like that. So, I put out a list of um upcoming crypto. Did you see Bitco filed for Bitco filed their S1? Very interesting to read through. I love I love when these companies file their S1. You can read through like you're like, "Oh, like they that's how it works. So this is how much they're sitting on." So I thought it was really interesting. >> Can we This is a great list. But before we go there, okay, you're going to go in Bitco didn't Galaxy have a like that transaction fell apart? >> Yeah.

>> Okay. We should as we go through it and prices, we should think about >> I mean that. So yeah, Galaxy had a deal to buy Bitco for I think it was a billion two. >> Yeah. >> In the last cycle and then the market started turning and I think Galaxy basically said we we we got to get do anything we can do to get out of this deal. Um >> and I think that there was something in the acquisition from what I've heard that was like if if they're they can pull out if they're not listed on NASDAQ at a certain point in time and they weren't listed in NASDAQ, they're listed in Canada and so that they were able to pull out. I think they I think there was a 50 or 100 million bucks that changed hands in a someone in like a pull part

of the pull out deal or something like that. But yeah, anyways, they did not spend 1.2 billion. Now Bitco IPOing. Do we have a price on it? >> No. >> Yeah, I don't think so. Um, let's pull up the numbers. All right, Omar looking through the Bitcoin and the headline numbers benefit from some generous accounting. Digital asset sales and staking revenue are both done on a gross basis. I.e. when a client buys 10 million of Bitcoin, the full 10 million is reflected as revenue. Okay, this is what I was I knew that number looked inflated. Even though the Even though the net >> two and a half% in H1 is only 25K. Ah, okay. So on a Okay, so client buys 10 million of Bitcoin. The net on that is

25K. They're booking 10 million revenue, right? You got to look at the fees, right? >> Okay. Okay, so you can see the true net with the sales cost line item on a net basis. Still impressive with 171 million of net revenue in H1 of 25, but 4% of the headline and far closer to the economic reality of the business. So really, this is a business doing so they 171 million of net revenue in H1 annualized that 342. Okay, so we've got a B. Okay, that's exactly in line with if you had asked if you had asked me to project Bitco's revenue, I would have said somewhere between 300 to 400 million.

>> So this this makes a lot more sense to me. >> What you are need to look at when you do this analysis is that take rate of Bitco analyst that is looking at Coinbase is thinking about the same thing which is what is the difference between gross and net revenue. And that's going to give you an indication of how what's the relationship with their clients? What's the spread? Are they will are they able to capture? Because what you don't want to see is so say that say that the the grow the gross revenue which is all the volume in the platform that they're they're you know custodying is going to go up. Okay fine but maybe you have a compression because Fidelity and State Street and other folks are going to get into the custody game. So the percentage that they've been able to charge

historically will come down as you have competitive pressures in the industry. And this is something that I'm I'm intimately familiar because when I, you know, when I have positions like a lot of these projects, you know, will will custody in either Bitcoin or Anchorage, the pricing of some of these platforms is not very competitive and and Bitcoin. Bitco had very good experience with some of the other platforms, their pricing is just a bit off and I I just don't think it's sustainable to be honest. And so those are kind of you just need to spend a little bit more time looking at that take it's it's a take rate number effectively marketing platforms same deal. Um, hyperlquid, same deal, right?

You're going through a ton of volume, ton of custody assets. What's the take rate of this business? That's the main KPI of of these type of businesses. >> Yeah, it sounds like they're it sounds like they're IPOing in I mean, I think we'll get it in October in a couple weeks. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they've listed a range there, but thinking through what's their what's their EBITD number? You know, off the top of your head, >> I'm gonna make it pretty >> like flat, I think. >> Well, no, no, no. But what's their what's their like just a gross like IDA like? Is it 100 million, 50 million?

>> Probably here. Wait, wait, hold on. >> Because you said 300 million of revenue. >> That's it. Uh expenses of 25 loss from operations, net income. >> No. Okay. Yeah. Well, IDA will be heavily adjusted in this case because there's not gonna this is not going to trade on a PE basis, but yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Oh, here we go. Adjusted. IDA. >> I got it in their S1. 2022 eight. They lost eight. Okay. 2022 is 8 million. 2023 is negative negative 29 million.

>> Got to look at is 6.8 in the first half of 20. I'm doing this live. 2025. I'm going to run rate that generously going to run rate that this business is maybe going to >> 13 to 15 less than 20 million of IBIDA for the full year of 2025. >> So their guidance maybe next year you're generous you say god this business I don't know got to do 30 million of IBIDA on a forward basis and uh what's figure and trading at like uh Coinbase trading at I guess I guess Coinbase probably the better analogy here. I'm gonna ask chat with what's Coinbase out trading at like 60 70 billion.

Okay. 300. Yeah. Yeah. That's Coinbase forward EVD but multiple 24 times. Okay. I wasn't that off. So anywhere between 20 and 30 times. So if this business generously So remember folks, it did seven 6.8 uh million in the first half of the year. Maybe does 15 if you're aggressive. The second half is going to be greater, right? Um maybe next year double. So, it's going to do 30 times 24. This is going to be a surely not a 720 billion um enterprise value business. Sub a billion.

>> Sub no above a billion. It'll this thing will trade higher than the billion. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Look, let me let's just let's just let's just get these facts straight. You're telling me IDA was six billion six million in the first half of 25. Did we get that right? Yeah. So, we're we're annualizing it and giving them a little bit of a a bump to 15. >> 15. They're going to more than double 15. Next year, they're going to double it. >> Sure. 30. >> Let's just say 30. Maybe it's 40.

>> You need to believe that this business, if it's going to trade in line with Coinbase, by the way, and it's going to crank out 40 million of next year, which by the way, big uncertainty as we thought about macro and stuff and competitive pressures in the industry. And if it trades like 25 times, which is it Coinbase forward EB to Ebadano, it barely cracks a billion. This might be the smallest. What was Gemini? Smallest IPO uh of the Coinbase of the crypto names that have gone public. I figure was at six to seven. Circle obviously much higher than that. And it certainly run up. Uh Gemini, what was Gemini? What's Gemini?

>> Gemini trading at three billion. Gemini eval let's go let's do >> sometimes these things don't trade on but >> I don't think Gemini is profitable >> really there's always sir you will always >> adjust >> well you will always adjust IDA such that it is a great number okay Gemini no Gemini space station not what's the ticket for Gemini >> no it is space station it is space station >> Gemini Wow that's great Gemini space station is trailing sorry trailing 12 on EVA 32. Oh, negative 32. I Yeah, right.

>> That's what I'm saying. We're not in the market. That's what I'm saying. You're trying to fundamental analyst this this thing like we're we're Gemini. Gemini is trading at $3 billion market cap with a EV to EVA ratio of negative 33x. >> Gemini, you're right, is 4.7 billion EV. >> Four to five. Okay. I might I might just uh have midcurve that it >> honest to God as as I was doing that exercise.

>> That's a good That's a good It's a good exercise to do. >> We should do more of these live exercises. You got to do a quick Okay. It just tells you everything we're in the cycle. It's a great It's a great way to probably end this discussion of back to Anom's point. It is It is frothy. I'm sorry, but like Gemini at 5 billion and it's not a profitable thing. I don't want to own it. I wouldn't want to touch it as much as we're like going to the moon or whatever. It's something that I've said before which says I think more value is going to be captured of this industry in other names that are going to integrate this technology man. Western Union go look at Western Union EVA. I'm going to do the slide. There are there are like deeply unsexy businesses that are

trading at distress multiples and then there's like there's like a very big divide of >> Yeah. Western Union's out here. Yeah. two, three times. >> Western Union's got a a PE ratio of three. >> I'm gonna go call Aman or the Elliot guys. >> That thing's trading horrendously right now. >> Distressed steel mill operators in like the last century were trading at eight times P ratio. This thing is been left for dead. I'm way more excited looking at like businesses that are deeply overlooked than punting something at 20 30 40 times forward Ibida baked on the most aggressive assumptions that bankers

are going to pedal on the [ __ ] you know marketing materials. I'm like you need to believe that a business like Ebidaf you can buy businesses by the way for three times four times five times EBIT 10 times EA I remember even in good times like investing in enterprise software with contracted revenue durable businesses and you're saying there like you're paying 10 times 12 times there is nothing contracted of these businesses like dude assuming that a business is going to double next year and giving it a super lofty multiple I don't care how bullish and And how excit I mean you and I don't need more bullishness than any you know what I mean like we're skew very very bullish I wouldn't buy it at 20 30 times forward IBIDA because there's just so many stackions of this

business go buy a [ __ ] business at 10 times Ebida you know do the work but I'm I'm just saying I get more excited about this western unions of the world that are deeply overlooked across 30 plus networks and 180 endpoints Block Damon Earnstack unites staking and DeFi into a single institutional toolkit for crypto rewards. With multi-layered security, full asset control, and 24/7 support, Block Damon Earnstack is built for scale and regulatory clarity, non-custodial staking, and seamless DeFi access all-in-one stack. Direct access to DeFi with no intermediate smart contract or vaults. To book a demo, make sure to click the link in the show notes or head over to BlockDamon Earnstack to find out

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Okay, here's my IPO list of who's coming next. Here's my watch list. 2025, BitGo and Coin Shares. Coin Shares is like a Galaxy of Europe. They're going they're doing us back in the NAC or in like London or whatever. >> Maybe London. I don't no uh maybe the states. Maybe I don't know actually. 26 bit Kraken I think Ripple will IPO uphold. Uphold's doing like similar to Bitco 250 to 400 million topline I think. Chain Analysis, Falcon X, Bit Panda, Gayscale I think IPOs, and Ledger.

>> Y >> 27 I've got Consensus, Anchorage, Fireblocks, OKX, Crypto.com, Bit Vavo, Moonpay, Blockchain.com, Uniswap Labs. Some of these guys from 26 will go in 27. Some of them like 27 27 will go in 26. But yeah, >> who of these you have to pick three that you're buy and hold for the next five years? Who are you buying and holding? public markets companies, Anchorage, Fireblocks Uphold Kraken. >> God damn. I mean, it depends on the price, man. I don't know. Can't tell me.

I'm gonna I'm sorry, but if I don't know the price, I can't give you an answer. It's like the price dictates your return. This is the point I'm trying to make. I don't care how bullish you are on the business model. If this thing is trading at like 70 times or 100 times or negative 50 times EVD, DA, I'm not touching that. I'm not touching. I mean, I remember my mom one day is calling me said, "I want to buy Amazon because I'm using it all the time." I'm like, "Okay, everyone thinks like that. What's it priced at?" >> It's like, I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Uh, so even you can you can buy a great asset at a terrible price and it's going to be a terrible investment. You can buy a dog [ __ ] asset at a great price and it's going to be a phenomenal return

there. I'm telling you, Western Union at two times PE, that business is not gonna that Western Union will not go out of business. And this is something that like I this is something a framework that I've adapted now is like as much as if you love technology I think the market is like has this stareyed version of technology and get super excited about AI and all this stuff crypto now again and and because of that you then say it's easy to just do the lazy analysis and say all these businesses like creative destruction they're going to be going out of business newspapers they're all going to go out of business right and and you're sitting there probably saying you're hearing the Collison brothers say um you know stable coins are room temperature semiconductors are

going to totally borderless finance blow up businesses and you and then the lazy things like oh Western Union remmens they're going to go out of business because stable coins are going to eat their lunch and you're like yeah go talk to smart stable coin guys and people that understand payments and they'll tell you one thing which is you still need connectivity of the real world. Yeah, >> let me tell you folks, Western Union has a lot of connectivity in the real world. It has a moat, but it's not going to go away. It's mispriced. That's all I'm saying. This is not a recommendation. I'm not telling you to buy Woo. >> Why are we talking so much about Western Union here?

>> You know what we should be talking about? Cloudflare. Cloudflare. >> Let's Let's fine. I'll end my rant here. >> I'm done hearing about Western Union. I was in a cab. I was in a cab the other day. this Western Union support team was just ruining this cab driver's day and I felt I was like I'm I don't like I don't like Western Union. >> Yeah. But I get more excited about our business trading at two times DVD. But >> I get it. >> I'm trading at >> Cloudflare is uh CL So Cloudflare um sits basically behind the whole internet. Um a lot of things are built on top of Cloudflare. Uh they introduced net dollar which is a new US dollar back stable coin that will enable instant secure transactions for the agentic web.

Little unclear who how they did this. Um actually Robbie Rob said uh had a nice tweet. He said Cloudflare not announcing their issuing partner is weird. Could it be that it's a partner who is not yet public? Maybe a white label product that someone like a large bank or Circle are launching and they aren't ready to announce yet. But yeah, very interesting to see Cloudflare launch. Um, this is the first like big tech company, I'd say, to launch a stable coin that I can think of. Um, and I think it will open the floodgates for many, many, many more. >> We said it before, Stripe doing it with Tempo just has opened the aperture here of companies exploring this in a very meaningful way. We should, if there's anyone cloud wants to come on, would love to have you guys on. Um, my bet is

on Paxo's probably like doing the backbone infrastructure here or like someone like Anchorage, right? >> Yeah. Because Yeah. Who's doing a lot of the Genius Act? What's the first Genius Act compliance stable coin? Is that like Athena's? >> I think Anchorage is doing a lot of these from what I've heard because they with their acquisition of Mountain Protocol. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So, it's probably Paxus or Anchorage or or combin I don't know if it could be a combination, but that that's okay. >> Yeah. Um >> what does this do by the way just on on this point like what what does this do?

Okay. If you're a stablecoin issuer dour if you're like or you're a lot of these cryptonative projects like trying to like build in this space I've invested in a number I think you have invested in others like when you see this are you aren't you like super nervous when you see like cloudfare or stripe uh or you know JP Morgans over the world like large companies trying to adopt this technology um >> dude I don't know because it's like I uh was talking to some people who were at the um actually exec annual exact planning of JP Morgan and um it was it was it was last week basically like their whole budgeting for 2026 meeting and without sharing too much half of the conversation supposedly was about crypto

and stable coins and uh it's like yeah these companies these big companies do set their plans for 20 for the next year you know months months ahead and uh you've got a bunch of companies sitting there basically planning for 2026 anyone from Stripe to JP Morgan saying like what's our plan for 2026. I don't know. AI and crypto. So, >> is is crypto going to make the cut for this budgeting like AI and crypto? Is that >> I think it will. I think it will. Now, what's what could happen is, you know, like prices go down and things still get built. But, >> well, that's what I'm saying because if you've set the budget for the year, this is the point that I made before. It's like companies are not going to make a decision to build in this space because Salana went down 80%.

I I think we're past that. I think the tech is sufficiently viable from a regulatory perspective that companies are now going to credibly deploy and not just sit on pilots, you know, because because it's going to pump their like the Long Island TE's I I think that era is gone. I think now if if JP Morgan is like now committed, by the way, they have a massive team and they have the muscle and they have the resources and they're committing for next year. Doesn't matter if it's a bull bear, they're just going to deploy, right? in the same with it like companies have adopted you know Excel and CRM and and stuff like that no matter the micro environment. So yeah I mean look it's open source technology and so I I I'm don't know if there's been any updates on Tempo. They came out with a pretty

interesting um you know ecosystem tweet. There's a lot of really good you know a lot of interesting companies there. Um that's the latest I saw. But that to me that's one that I'm paying a lot of attention like can tempo be the it's almost like on on on on left side is tempo like enterprise chains and then on the right it's like codexes of the world that are trying to be just cryptonative ground up. I don't know who wins. Is there a opportunity for both? Maybe. >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Oh there were two two interesting fundraisers. Archetype um venture fund raised 100 million. Also, Zero Hash raised 104 million um at over a billion valuation from Interactive Brokers and uh I think Morgan Stanley or maybe

they're just integrating with Morgan Stanley. But actually, it was very this was this the second order thing was more interesting. Morgan Stanley's stock went jumped like 2% on the news that they're going to roll out crypto through ZeroHash. So, uh maybe a sign of the times, but yeah, shout out to Zohash. Shout out to Archetype. think this will start to be the norm moving into Q4 is these mega hundred million raises, $200 million raises. I think uh a lot of the actually series C and D companies that raised in 2021 at these crazy valuations that we've talked about for years and years and years, they're actually finally now able to raise at valuations that are roughly similar to what they raised at in 21 and 22. So I know a lot of these founders who uh you know run

crypto companies that were valued at 3 billion or 4 billion or 5 billion but they can't IPO yet and now they're actually raising again at similar valuations. So I you know I I think I will be have been wrong on this. I said that they would never get back to their valuations and I think I'm going to be proven wrong which is great. I mean to be fair I I'm I'm seeing a lot of inbounds large like traditional allocators uh sub 10 50 100 billion allocators just wanted to deploy and these are probably the same people that are like looking at tether and looking at some of these names for preipo kind of rounds and so I think look there's a there's a lot of capital out there and and and that capital is now wanted to direct and get more exposure to crypto and no surprise but someone probably

says wait a minute why didn't we invest in circle pre IPO why didn't we invest in you know figure why didn't we have exposure to these things. They're performing very well. So, you know, they want to put size and and you can get it in some of these companies. >> Yeah. Last thing of the week is Plasma just went live. Um it's trading at I think it >> 8 billion. >> Yeah. Uh what's it's Yeah, it's priced at over a dollar now. >> It's priced at five. I'm sure that'll change throughout the day and by the time you're listening to this, it'll be too late. But yeah, I mean this is just another thesis of like what can get bid will get bid. like the main attention things if you can bid them they will they will get bid. So plasma interesting thing it is um the we we talked about on

last pod it was the pre-market um poly market was like six billion it's currently at 10 but you know remember I think your point is let's see where it is next week pro like pump obviously was you know came down quite a bit um so there's a lot of all uh in the first seven 30 days of these things so >> we'll see >> but shout them >> yeah content of the Yeah. Want to go? >> Yeah, you go. >> Well, uh, speaking of Korea, there's like this Netflix show of, uh, basically, what's it called? They're like trying to manufacture like a K-pop from scratch and they're documenting the

journey. And uh I've been watching I've seen like two three episodes now, but it's like they're casting and it's uh they'll they'll select people from like Tik Tok and socials and then they'll put them together and they'll train them for a year and it's like the main studio um um and directors from Korea that like have mastered the K-pop theme and like what's that gang gang style and all that like I think it's K-pop and they like combine it with like LA Hollywood people and They're trying to like create like the next star band and like uh and I think there's going to be multiple seasons, but it's kind of pretty pretty neat to see that inside world of of like >> what's it called?

>> I forget, man. It's on Netflix. Uh Korea. I'm just going to say uh K-pop Netflix series. >> Oh, I don't even know, man. >> All right, we'll find it. We'll find it. People, that's part of the hunt. All right, I got one. I also have a Netflix one, which is >> uh Pop Star Academy. >> Pop Star Academy. Yeah, pop star academy. I think >> pop star. >> K-pop training program. Yeah, aspiring pop stars. K-pop training program. >> Dude, I have a great Netflix show. It's called America's Team, the Gambler and his Cowboys. It is about >> Jerry Jones.

>> Jerry Jones, baby. Jerry Jones. Oh my god. I I'm a I love Jerry Jones after watching this. It is the best. >> How good is that? >> It's He's a savage. He's a savage. >> Jerry Jones is not trading fartcoin. the the man. >> I'm like, I love this man. This guy this guy's a legend. Uh I know I I know Jerry Jones like the old NFL owner. I don't know the the the young Jerry Jones or the story. Like I don't know like I mean he's >> what I've heard actually. So I've like uh I've now t I've now since watching it I'm I've I've messaged some people who know Jerry Jones. I'm like what what is there to learn about like his life? Like

tell me like you know him like tell me about his life. They're like, "There's nothing to learn from him. He the He has bet everything in his entire life. He's bet the farm more times than anyone else, and he just wins every time." They're like, "You shouldn't take any lesson away from Jerry Jones." They're like, "He's just a savage." >> I mean, what what was it the opening scene? I was captivated by this first episode. >> Oh, the music is so good, too. Yeah. He made some money on this is like Yellowstone but like real life like um um he bet he made money on an oil well in Oklahoma in Tus I think he's from uh Arkansas. Arkansas.

>> Yeah. >> He made like $100 million. He parlayed all of that stack into buying the Dallas Cowboys and like the first couple of weeks of ownership is just crazy. And I remember the scene of where he start one and 15. He fires like one of the most legendary coaches of all times. Like >> he's like the the nemesis of Dallas. It's it's crazy. But man, incredible story. Um >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. For all you deans out there, >> I also liked it. So when I was when I was 18, I got like I was really into I was just like I'm ne never working a nineto-ive job. Like I hate this. And like I was like I was look seeking mentors basically. And I found these two. There's a thing called there's a guy named Zig Ziggler who was a like uh

like a 1950s60s like sale 1940s 1950s 1960s like sales guy who was like he's basically like the Tony Robbins of the 1950s. His name is Zig Ziggler. And I hadn't I listened to hundreds of hours of Zig Ziggler when I was like 18 and 19. And uh I hadn't thought about that name in like 10 years. And Jerry Jones goes, "Look, when I was when I was a teenager, I listened to Zigg Ziggler. I was like, "That's my guy. Let's go." D I was with Dana. She's like I was like, "Zig Ziggler." She's like, "Who?" Like, "What are you talking about?"

>> It just looks strange face. >> Yeah, >> dude. Yeah. Everyone go watch that. It is just >> it's great >> phenomenal life story and you know honestly amazing amazing what he's been able to do. >> Yeah. So >> Is that the most valuable NFL franchise right now? >> Probably. >> I think it's the most valuable sports team in the world. >> Yeah. >> Most valuable sports teams in the world. >> Let's see. Yeah. Dallas Cowboys. 10 billion dollars. 10 billion >> to be Yeah. Yeah. >> For the ninth straight year in a row. And the thing Okay. So it's Cowboys. The Golden State Warriors are number two.

That's interesting. The Rams, the Yankees, the Knicks, the Pats, the Giants, the Lakers, the Jets, the Niners, the Raiders. >> It got traded recently. >> It's basically NFL, the Yankees, but NFL, it's mostly NFL, some NBA and MLB, and then Real Madrid is number 12 and Manu is number 14. >> Surprised no Formula 1's there. Like, collectively, Formula One is I think Saudi. >> The league is the size of the size of these teams. the league. They just got bought for what, five billion, I think it was.

>> Uh, Liberty Media. Liberty Media bought it for like No, >> no, no, no. I think that I think F1 just sold >> to Saudi guys. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. Bernie Ecklestone sold it for three. >> Oh, no. Excuse me. I'm wrong. I'm I'm wrong. >> Oh, no. There were rumors that they were bidding on it, but they're not. >> No, no. McLaren I think I think the McLaren team sold. >> Oh, interesting. >> I think so. >> That's great. >> Um, >> amazing. Anything else, man? >> That was great. Um, we have Mike Novograt's episode dropping on Monday.

Um, it was good. He's a stud. >> We will the next up. Are we recording? When are we recording live? Is this uh Dash in London? >> Maybe. >> Probably. Rob and I might do a, you know, intimate recording at token. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Get the hotel recording. Run it back. All right, folks. Thanks for listening. Good hanging with you guys. See you on Monday for Novagrats and Santi and I'll be back next week. Peace. >> Thank you guys. [Music]