GET IN HERE! LIVE: MONAD, BSC, METADAO, AND MORE | 0XRESEARCH

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It's a wonderful, beautiful Friday on the Zerx Research live stream. I'm joined today by my co-host Picacio, the one and only Bacio. Triple Pacio, Salv Pacio, all the other names. >> I think those are the only two. I hate that one. >> I hate the other few. >> How you doing? >> Uh, I'm doing good. Uh, >> I haven't chatted with you for a bit. >> You missed uh the morning call today. We had a good conversation without you, honestly. I'm just >> What did you talk about?

>> Uh, what did we talk about? We talked about office chairs, um, mattresses, eight sleep, talked about, we talked about a little bit about metadial, talked about privacy coins, a lot of stuff. >> Did you um, wait, you have to do something very important and I'm gonna ask you a few questions. >> Do you want to do it? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was going to say uh it's last chance. This is this is quite literally your last chance if you're out there listening, watching, reading, hearing this. Um D London next week.

Pocacho himself will be there October 13th through the 15th. Uh you can still get tickets. Uh if you want to go, you should get your tickets now because then you need to also book a flight or a train or whatever else and get yourself out there. Um, I'm wondering if it's a bit late. I feel like now I feel like we shouldn't be doing this one. >> I don't know, man. 0x 100, you get 100 pounds off. Uh, if you still don't have your ticket and you want to go, it's next week. L like literally Monday. >> Yeah, Monday I have a talk actually. If anybody's going, you should check it out. I'm talking to I'm talking about prediction markets and pers with a lot of people who are a lot more interesting and important than me. Let me um I I'm going to share the promo um image. Um

I'll share it throughout. I'm not going to pull it up now, but um and also on Tuesday I'm doing full four hours of podcasts um live streams. I am going to be talking with Paul from Plasma, Guy from Ephina, Sid from Maple. Um as well as we're going to be doing an hour together with the the Blockworks research team that is sent over across the pond. Um Ryan uh Karolina who I actually don't think has no I think she's been on the pod once only um for the Hyperlid episode. So she just came on was on the most popular episode and just never again. Um so yeah that that Tuesday should also be a fun day. Um and of course if you're

going to D London um like already booked or if you're not going but you want to book um we are having a podcast meetup on Tuesday um right across from the venue. So, if you It's It's the Walrus Pub something. Um, apparently I'll um I'll link to that somewhere as well on the Twitter at some point. Um, but that's like something to look forward to. Um, think it should be on Mr. Yanowitz's dime as well. So, come in and try and drink us bankrupt. >> Yeah, it'll be free. I uh That's It's good they're doing another podcast meetup. I feel like we got a little we got a little snubbed at Permissionless.

I don't want to be too grumpy about it, but we were supposed to have this little setup with the with the dunk tank and all that and they were like, "Nope, gotta get out of here." >> Yeah, it was that's okay. Um the thing is that you can't really bring that up to events people as well, right? Like >> I mean, they're they're just kind of like this is what we were told. We're closing this up. We'll see you. So, what are you gonna do? That's okay. >> That's nice. Um >> make up for it at D. So, if you're gonna be there, that should be fun. Yeah. And then after this one, we're going to start promoting dance New York City. So guys, if you're worried about the promotions and >> Yeah. After this conference is over, we'll be we'll be talking about the next

one. So >> we'll probably have give Danny a oneweek break and then we'll start. >> Dude, I don't know. They're going to have the they'll have the copy already ready like before D is over >> for sure. Um I guess like before we get fully into talking about I want to talk about Meta now. Um, we want Oh, we forgot. Shout out to AFTOS for sponsoring this live stream. Did you do this? >> Yeah, you got it. You nailed it. >> Very good. Um, I think Umbra raised like 120 mil.

>> Yeah. So, they Let's Let's talk about it. Um, Metad went crazy last week. Price insane pump. Umbra is conveniently at this time like opening up an ICO. They're they wanted to raise minimum 750K and then I think it filled with 150 million. And so they the founder I think just tweeted uh I think we h I think I have this tweet. Let me find it. Pull it up. >> 155 mil in deposits. Free mil raise.

Everyone gets 150 for what they deposited. That's a lot. Yeah. So, he they just followed up and said, "Hey, we're going to cap this way way way below 150." He wrote a a long long long tweet and said, "Uh, we've decided to cap at 3 million at an $ 8.5 million FTV." So, I think that was the smart choice. I was I was actually talking on the call this morning without you with um Nick and some of the other guys. >> No, I'm I'm serious. You can ask Nick cuz he that's why he put it in our chat and and targeted at me. Um was saying if they basically ran with the 150 and then like filled everyone at that Val. I mean

it would have made no sense for Umbra. Um given that they only they they were asking for what like 30k or so in run rate um on the initial raise. So it's like they would have basically just gone and raised like $100 million that they can't use and it would have opened at like a over 100 you know $200 $300 million valuation u for like a early you know pre-product kind of like VC type of deal um everyone would have been filled and then it's like who like who's going to buy this now um and if and then people ended up selling it and then it went below >> uh and then it's kind of stayed below its kind of initial launch price, then

they would have been open to potentially, you know, being voted to return the funds because that's kind of how Metad works. So, it would have been very silly to like take all that money. So, I I think it was the smart decision that they cap this much lower. >> Yeah. I just I thought it was really funny that they raised Well, I I put out a tweet and it was when they raised $80 million and apparently >> Yeah. >> Well, they got deposited 160. Um, it's good though. I mean, that's the ideal way that Like if you're going to do uncapped raises for VCs, you want to um if you're going to do uncapped raises for projects, um you need to have a mechanism to because or else you're just giving

somebody like they probably wouldn't make 180 mil over the next 10 years like until they finish the product, right? Um, so then you would just be giving $160 million. >> Yeah. I mean luckily I think I think the good thing is even if they had made the decision to not cap it. I think the it the discussion around this sort of highlights the benefits to Metad's platform at least when it comes to these ICOs because the the community then you know if they raise that amount of money and then maybe it trades down or even if it trades nowhere like if it's just flat for whatever for 6 months uh but the product is clearly not worth that the um you know investors on the platform can

choose to uh vote to claw back the funds and of course the team has to like if they wanted to spend more of the money like they s you know they're like oh we just raised 150 like let's ask to burn like 15 mil a month or something they they have to put through a proposal and then people have to vote yes so um I think luckily the platform is like well equipped to handle >> very long like there's a chance >> with a different mechanism like they could have ra you know a team like in a max extraction team could have come in you know walted in on the narrative and then raised you know 150 mil and cashed out done no work and everyone would be left crying. So I think the design here uh of Metadau's platform is you know got

to give them props. So >> yeah it is cool. Um what is the metadal FTV? I wonder if it was less than the range. It's not a bill. >> Metadau right now. >> Yeah, let me check. >> I don't think it's quite that large or even close to that. like maybe a couple hundred like 100 mil. >> Yeah, they raised more than the market cap of metad. >> That is funny. Um I think this is worth talking about too then. Um for metad specifically they there is a proposal in right now uh from is it proposed by the metadata team or

is it proposed by DBA and variant? Um, >> it's proposed by DBA and Variant. >> That's what I thought. Let me I'll pull this up and share it. >> O DC, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I'm just going to share the market because we can kind of look at how it's being traded, which is sort of the futur part of Metadau, but basically they're proposing to do a $6 million OTC to for Metadau to mint new tokens and for them to buy them basically off market at a discount to current price of Metadau tokens uh to give the team some additional runway. The proposal down here Oh, it doesn't Oh, it's showing balances. the proposal down here.

They're talking about we could hire some additional team members and maybe grow a little bit faster. Um though they they do indicate that they have about two years of runway at their current size. So um big I guess question or controversy uh around this is that you know why let them buy at a discount and now that the token price has gone up even more it's like a significant discount from the like $4 or so that they initially proposed this at. Um, but I guess the interesting thing is you can look at this market here and um, while the token was running up, you can see that like the reject got valued up quite highly because it's like why would you, you know, the token just ran up to $8 and they want to buy Metadau at four

bucks. Um, so clearly, you know, pricing up reject on that movement. Uh, and you can see that that gap has kind of closed a little bit. I'm assuming the token has probably traded down a little bit, but also um maybe that gap was a bit a bit wide. >> Um is metadquid? I wish we had no liquid today, but I got to check. >> Um cuz like I mean I guess you can't really buy six more of a token that's at 100. >> No, I mean you Let's see.

Most of the liquidity is on Meteora. >> Yeah. I mean, this would also be used for the team specifically, so they would just use it as a runway. Um, I think >> it's not doing a ton of volume, like 7 mil. >> Yeah, I think DB just got unlucky here. I can't imagine that an OTC thing is very controversial normally. Um, >> I think in just this specific scenario, it's like putting out a proposal like while the token is kind of pumping like crazy. Uh, it's a little unfortunate the way that like Few Turkey works combined with the attention on the token right now. Uh, that's kind of a bit of a double whammy I think for them to insert

themselves into the middle of. Um, that said, I mean, on seven, you know, 7 8 mil in 24-hour volume, you you could buy a decent amount a day. But, yeah, I mean, it would take you a while if you wanted to actually get six mil into this coin that without, you know, just shoving without slamming the price up significantly. >> I haven't heard about bearings in a while as well. I know they did like Farcaster and stuff. That's interesting. Um, best of luck. I not sure how it's going to turn out. Seems a bit complicated. I wouldn't This is one of the issues with governance, right? Like there's some things that are required for a business to run. Um such as like

getting buy in from venture capital firms to get higher uh like a longer run. Um, and if you have to put every single thing into governance, it's it just ends up complicating things. Like a lot incentives are misaligned. Like this is clearly not like a negative thing to do. But then like everybody's like, "Okay, well just ship it into the token office." Like >> if I'm holding Metad and I'm like, "Yeah, just buy six% in the open market, buddy." Of course. That makes so much sense to me.

>> Yeah. I want my bags to go up. Yeah, I agree. The having having the nitty-gritty gritty governance stuff come down to community decisions. I I guess the the main thing with their platform is that they largely like they operate the product and they they build that out and you know their growth and whatever objectives are that's that's up to the team. It's just that the token itself um ends up being governed by the market and that's sort of like the check on you know having low market cap IFV and other stuff um that we typically see with tokens or like dual token equity structures that uh you know we've come to hate.

>> Yeah. >> I we should talk about double zero now that we're talking about dual token equity. Okay. One thing I wanted to mention here is um it would be cool to see if it if a um I guess Soner can do this and Echo can do this, but it would be nice to see because I think most of the times when you do Soner and Echo, you're only doing it for um preede. Um, but it would be cool to see some like I think Metad would have a lot easier time if they if they had also sold some at discount from the team's treasury on the open not on the open market but um you know through like some form of investing

schedule etc. I think that would have been an easy way for them to like also say look we're also going to do this on the side or something. Do you know like to normalize some of this things? I think a lot of people generally hate things that they're not able to get exposure to. >> And I think if you um I think if you normalize some of this like because these aren't even like super nefarious things. It's just like the team trying to raise additional funds. So it's I think if you normalize this across like if if you and I are able to get into these deals then I don't care.

>> I think that's a good point actually. Like the the purpose of their platform is to do exactly that. like to allow anyone to invest in these ICOs now and they're like sort of provably fair um via their mechanism. So yeah, I mean they could similarly do like a OTC style raise from the community and it doesn't have to go specifically to couple VC funds. >> Yeah. I mean if you're going to sell it at 4 mil to DBA and variant, why not make that allocation? No. If you're going to uh sell it six mil, why not make it like 8 mil instead? And then you let other people buy in as well at a 50% discount.

Give them the same vesting schedule. And then people realize, okay, well, maybe it's not actually a great idea for me to buy something at a 40% discount because they slapped the freeear vest on it and I'm actually not like that's actually not suitable for the way that I invest in markets. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, we'll see if it's up to the market here. So, the the futary market is going to decide if this passes or fails. And um that does seem like it would be an interesting sort of counter proposal to drop out of this.

>> Oh, they're selling it at 85 mil with no vesting. >> I don't really trust though. That's the issue. Uh, I think he's right on the valuation. So, the proposal is listed at $48, >> which is it's a 50 it's uh it's a 33% discount from the current price. And I don't I don't know if the Oh, tokens would be fully unlocked. So, yeah, I do think this is kind of one of those things. It makes sense to me that there's some

upset folks. You could just do a a more open raise. Am I crazy? Maybe there's a legal there's you sort of maybe get into the legal complication there of then if you do it as more of like a regular raise then you'd have to like bar US residents and some of those other things to safeguard yourselves. But you could do it that that's a typical thing we see now, right? Um, for a lot of these like ICOs as well, you'll see US terms and non- US terms. So, the US investors are always locked up for at least one month or one year, 12 months, and then like EU and other investors have like they're fully unlocked day one. I don't know why that

is, but some some legal complication in doing some of these pre-sale ICO deals um has led to that distinction. I don't know if that would if that would necessarily be the case for an already live token. Um maybe that's that's only for like an initial sales of these assets versus like a sort of OTC kind of secondary trade of them. But either way, >> yeah, I don't know the legality behind any of this. I wish everybody the best of luck. Uh did you you said you want to say something on double zero?

>> Yeah. What is um what is happening? I missed the stream that you had with him. So did you ask a bit about the the tokconomics over here? What are we what are we doing? >> Yeah, we didn't we didn't talk much about tokconomics. I think the big thing I mean they just highlighted that you know they had there were a few like core engineering lab teams behind the initial development. Um, and that's why like Jump and then Malbeck Labs both got pretty large portions of token supply.

Um, I don't have much else to say there. Like I think the price action makes sense. I mean it was definitely like way overpriced at immediate launch. It went to what 6, seven, eight billion maybe like immediately. Um, and it's pulled back from there. I think naturally like if you look at like what's what's GTO priced at and I think I think Nick Carpon needed kind of said this on when we were on the uh when we were on that initial live stream uh that you know if you look at doubles and you kind of compete since they have kind of a similar operating model in the sense that you know they kind of get a cut of fees and revenues from validators essentially

um it it doesn't really make sense that zero would trade at like a massive multiple over on basically day zero when they're not at a point where they've like they have plans to unlock additional revenue streams like kind of going from uh just a cut of fee revenues to then like a cut of inflation like to sort of like capturing all the different pieces that validators make from operations. But today they don't have all those revenue streams unlocked. So um yeah, I don't know. I think just kind of a like the launch was a bit overhyped from a price perspective and it's gonna have to correct from that with GTO. I mean goto's at 1.5 billion FTB. So

it's weird to look at double zero >> at zero market size though very different. Yeah. >> Yeah. At some point but today they're Salana only. So it's like you have a very similar story where they're taking a cut basically of validated revenues and they don't have the Yeah. Yeah, I mean, sure, if you're pricing it forward, it's like maybe at some point they're going to capture, you know 96% of the stake on Soul um or similar to what GTO has and they'll charge X% of the revenues and all that. But I don't know, you can only you can only price in so much growth on day zero. I feel is kind of my feel.

>> Yeah, I think they also got unlucky because they didn't They did. I think they launched at too high of a price and then Yeah. And I mean it's something that's going to take quite a bit of time. >> Yeah. >> Um to gain any to gain its meaningful form of traction, >> but some I guess I mean some info I was talking to Ian because he was telling me prior to the launch that they were not on zero. um they weren't they weren't supported yet from like uh it uh the links that zero had available um in terms of like you know access to the the fiber network or what have you were not available to them quite yet. Um but he

said since then they've they are now kind of within that coverage area or that's no longer an issue for them. um and they've signed up. And the big I guess I think the big kicker here is that Double0ero has a massive they have like 13 million soul for their their delegation program. >> Um and it sounds like that is a clear reason for a lot of validators to hop on board >> in the immediate term because it's like even if they're going to take a cut of some of your revenues, if they're going to give you a big chunk of new stake to support you, then it's it's worth it. It it kind of maths out in your favor.

They're um I think double zero is also the first instance of a protocol we've seen where they've done like traditional startup style tokconomics like allocations. >> Yeah. >> No airdrop. Uh I think they they did like a very small validator round but apart from that it's like all team right? >> So >> I don't know. I um and I guess like that kind of suits them because they're very clearly trying to be like B2B. They're never gonna deal with you and I.

>> Um >> yeah, >> same as with Jet to be fair. Like no, I guess Gito has J cell. So they have to deal with you and I at one level, but like on the block engine side, they don't have to deal with us at all. So if Jet was just a block engine, I wouldn't even expect them to be uh to have a token. I'm kind of surprised Double Zero has to have a token. I um feels like they could have just not done token and just kept everything in equity. >> I guess you need to give some form of incentive some way, but if you have soul >> Yeah, I think since it's sort of like a classical style network, they they need some it's like Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it would probably be more It's weird because they

do have the delegation program. So like they do have a big stack of soul that like hypothetically I guess you could sort of inject into the network but it probably just makes more sense to have your own token that's associated with the network and the SEC just like I guess they you know their lawyers or what have you have been speaking with them and the SEC just dropped that no action for deepin style network tokens broadly. Um, so from that perspective as well, it's like there's the risk of any sort of risk associated with having a token here in this network has like evaporated. So I think it makes sense.

It's just I think the question mark is like, you know, historically the deep pin tokens have not really been massive like value earners. So they they really need to like prove out that they can make this this network token valuable. through the revenues and then and then I think that's kind of where the question mark of like I'm assuming I think and I'm assuming that they do have a dual token like a token and equity structure right now. So that's going to be the the question of the future is are the revenues all going to go to like the token to buybacks? Um do does the equity side of the business get portion of those revenues? How does that work out? That's always still a

question in so many of these launches which is tough to navigate. All right. Uh before we jump on anything else, then I want to give a quick shout out to our sponsor for today's stream, Aptos. Uh Bitcoin DeFi is heating up on Aptos. With nearly 400 million BTC assets on chain, Aptos users can now earn yield on their Bitcoin via Echo BTC and OKX's XBTC without the typical bridge risks and high fees. Thanks again, Aptos, for sponsoring today's stream. Bach disappeared during the ad read.

>> He has to he has to hide during the ad reads. Um I guess the other one the other one that we can talk about is Monad. Um we had I want to say we had intern on a couple of months ago to talk about it. I think the big thing is we've all just kind of been waiting for this one. Um they did their initial test nets like beginning of this year like February I want to say. It was a long time ago. So, I wrote two reports, one at the end of last year, one at the beginning of this year on some of the early ecosystem applications. Um, and then it's been like, you know, more than half a year since then. Um, we're still kind of waiting, but um, they did the Monads sort of like drop or at least like I don't even know

what to call it. It's like a pre-drop like confirmation. Hey, you you're getting a card. Um, and I think we weren't really sure if those were going to be worth anything, but the Monet accounts have been tweeting lately, like mainnet is coming, like 95% complete type thing. Um, the airdrop checker for Monad, which was a big question mark for a long time. Are all the Gonad typers in the Discord going to get an air drop? I think not really sure yet if that's going to happen or if there's going to be a test net allocation or if it's just going to be the cards, anyone who received a card. totally unclear, but October 14th, next week, uh they're going to drop the checker. So, I'm assuming here in like the next week or two, we should be looking at mainet TGE

launch of Monad. Um, and I guess this is this is kind of a still a relatively big one in terms of networks that we've kind of been waiting for to launch. I would say Monad, Mega ETH. I don't know if there's anything else. I mean, maybe Plasma is probably one you would have thrown up there before they launched, but they've already gotten the they've already got the network out. >> Yeah. >> So, those are probably the two like sort of big remaining ones that that >> Monad and Mega E. Yeah. >> Mega E has has the optionality to wait, right? Like they can not >> Yeah, Monad is um >> Monad actually has some interesting things happening this past week. They had um well they released the cards two weeks ago, three weeks ago and then

>> they're releasing the checker on the 14th. >> Yeah, 14th next week. >> Okay. And then but on Poly Market, a lot of fresh wallets have been created and they're saying airdrop won't happen until the 31st. So >> interesting. >> After the 31st. So in November. So I don't think that we're getting a token in October. I think we're getting a token in November. Which means that if you're in chain like Mega Eve and you want to you want to take a risk, right? Like you want to be first to market. Mega and Mona are competitive. Well, it's true.

Like you want to take a risk, you want to be first to market, you go launch next week, then launch token two weeks and you're good to go. You could Do you think they would do that though? I don't know that they have to or that they need to or that it matters. >> You can do I mean you can get you can do the same thing by like by waiting a month and then >> Exactly. It's the same thing like the you wouldn't you probably wouldn't want to launch the same week but I think you can wait one two weeks on either side and it's like it's as if it didn't matter.

>> Yeah, we'll have to see. Monet is going to be the f first network in a while that's kind of like more Salanaike I want to say um in the sense that like Aptos and SU kind of went for this you know more scaled higher throughput blockchain design but I think they they're kind of limited in terms of how many validators they can have like 100 150 or so they those networks kind of cap out is from my understanding unless that's changed anytime in recent months. But um I think Monad like it's their their hardware requirements for validators are very consumer like um I've written done some research on this and like you know you

you could pick up a PC with those specs in the you know thousand to $2,000 range um and run and run a node. So seemingly they can maybe be in that in that middle ground of networks where you can have hundreds to thousands of nodes but also operate at a high throughput um like Soul does and not not how ETH does. Um which is interesting. But I I think the big question mark as with all new chains that we need to see is like are they going to be able to do anything

meaningfully differentiating that um pulls long-term capital and users into the ecosystem? Um I feel like we I mean we talked about Plasma recently and it's like they've got the emissions and some of the hype, but it's just going to be tough to to maintain longterm momentum there. as we tend to see with with newly launched networks with tokens of high high valuations that run a bunch of incentives. You know, the people come in, they farm the incentives and then when you know when the incentives get a little, you know, priced in then they move to the next thing or the next thing with with higher incentives pops and and then they move to that one. Um so but they

are in this cohort of chains where like you know mega monad um even plasma some it's become more common where spend a lot of time before launch incubating you know a bunch of teams making sure you have 10 20 30 teams that are going to launch apps um for users um ideally a bunch of trading apps because that's where a lot of network fees and money and revenue and excitement are are derived. D from um so that's a plus for them. But yeah, it's just it's so competitive. It's it's very very competitive market these days.

>> You have any thoughts, Baky? >> Yeah, I'm trying to think. I um I feel like attention is not as it was before. like the soul times like when soul was really really popping off early days it was there was very clearly like outsiders coming in and I feel like they've stayed some of them have stayed but a lot of them have left um and then you really need like somebody to push your chain to get attention >> so or like you need constant upgrades

right like you need some of momentum to keep going and it's tough to keep that momentum like you said like even plasma I I I think plasma is cool but like it was tough for them and these guys like executed a really really strong strategy with the incentive mechanisms like they onboarded tons of stable coins very difficult thing to do to get stable coins to move from one place to another because intrinsically stable coins want safe safety so like to make them go from one place to another at a large quantity is it's quite difficult Um, and they managed to pull that off, but like still they need momentum because the market wants momentum. Um, and then or else it's like you have to

be CZ, right? And you have to say we're launching a billion dollar fund as YZi YZ YZ Labs. >> Yeah. It's like easy >> easy labs. Um and then like you have to bull post four, you have to b post and to did this really really well in the early days as well. And then Alon also did really like they just like they put their weight behind certain they take risks. Um as Dan Smith likes to say it's like shots on goal for them and I mean they get a lot of negative feedback as well.

>> Um and I mean there's tons of chains that try to emulate this doesn't work out. Um, even on the bank side, I feel like it's not like they have the weight of Coinbase behind them, but I think like they need to launch the token and then Brian needs to really start full hosting and then it can do better. But like Coinbase has the added benefit of they can throw out a headline once every two weeks that says Coinbase to partner with Mastercard, Coinbase to partner with Coinbase, >> pump that [ __ ] >> you know, and then it goes up. Um, on the hyperlquid end, it's very low-key and it's like they've somehow created they've somehow weaponized people by giving them a lot of money so

that every time something on Hyperlid happens, they're like, "Oh my god, this happened in Hyperlid. This bam bam million things." But if you're a new chain, it's difficult. Like one thing that I was talking about with um with a few friends is like monad is and you wrote a report on monad so you know this as well. Monad is cool and interesting tech right like it's actually it's actually good stuff. Um like they're trying to scale the EVM. They're trying to and they're like doing both software and hardware changes. It's interesting, but the onboarding that they've done for um for like their growth side is a lot.

Like I feel like every free accounts that I follow are like of monad growth. I'm like guys, like how can this be like this? Um I mean I'm like I'm sure they all put in work on the back side the back back end. Um, but like I'm hoping that they're thinking about like look, like we have all these growth guys. They spent the past two years tweeting out, but like we have a set plan when we go live. Like we're going to hit them with XY Z over the next month and then we're doing like three things a month, two things a month.

We're trying to gain attention. Ke is going to be bull posting every single token. like you need something because or else I mean or else there's like a graveyard of tokens out there of like L1's that only get bit up when it's like oh soul is going up what's the next like you want to be the soul hype and you don't want to be like the phantom Sonic right I mean I guess >> yes >> yeah it's um you don't want it to just be like a one month incentive campaign and then after that like nothing happens anymore and it's just kind of and it becomes a ghost town. Um I agree with

that like and I think you even see the difficulty of this like with even with CZ bull posting BSC stuff and Jessie and and Brian Armstrong bull posting base stuff. It's like you see what happens in that people like ignore like they don't pay attention to it for a month and then they bull post it a couple times in a week and it's like oh this is like it's back like let's go bid the stuff in the ecosystem and then naturally like that fades again for a couple of weeks and then you know CZ comes back and he says hey let's tokenize my dog on the blockchain and then they pump all the coins again and then he like goes AFK for two months and then he comes back again and I and I You see this with base

as well and like Zora is a really good example where it's like new Zora announcement, pump the token uh 5x and then you know nothing really happens and then you know new announcement pump it you know pump it 3x and then people forget about it again. Um but yeah, you have to constantly have stuff coming out. Like ideally they would have they would know like all their teams that are going to launch products and maybe even tokens and like have that ready and have like a very clear road map of like we're going to do you know early bridging or liquidity or whatever incentives XYZ this that the other thing for you know these weeks that weeks and we know that like week one these guys are going to launch and we should talk about them and

then like the next week we know these guys are going to launch we're going to talk about them. um or at least just have like enough different things going on that you can kind of direct a community at the different onchain things to do cuz I agree with you that like to Salana like they've kind of they already have like something of a core community that's like there probably somewhat captive like you can just kind of see it and even when the like meme hype sort of dies off or like pumps and then dies off a little bit there's still like a baseline of of trading that's happening on like pump fun for example so they have there is like an amount of people that are just sort of like relatively sticky, but having those like events every once in a while or like new

things pop up that like drives up a new surge of speculative interest, >> it pumps all the chain metrics. So yeah, you have to be able to do that like consistently like over and over and over again. So having good builders, having like constantly new products, having like new updates, >> I totally agree with you. like they it would be a good thing for them to have like that very mapped out or have like a very clear idea of of how they want to approach that. >> Yeah, another Yeah, agreed. Um hackathons probably a huge thing on that end and ideally I guess you want like protocols to have their own hackathons as well so that they can build protocols on top of the protocols. I mean more tokens more >> and they have a huge war chest, right?

Like I mean they've raised over 220 million Monet has. So um I mean they have the funds to do obviously I mean they have a pretty big team so that like all the growth guys all the BD guys etc but different you know they've done a several hackathons already um you know a couple different like million-dollar hackathons early to get some developers into the ecosystem uh kind of beforehand but yeah to do more stuff like that to do different initiatives to maybe do liquidity incentives I don't know that's pretty typical for an early launch just to get some capital on the chain because you kind of need that um for people to do trading and whatnot.

Um all of that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We'll see how it goes. I It takes time. I think it it takes time. You need to like build that core like sticky user base at the bottom and then like kind of have those different exciting events that like pull in external capital over and over again and compound it. >> Yeah. Another um thing here is like teams shouldn't think that they can do what CZ does. He can't >> CZ can do whatever he wants. >> Yeah, he can't do what CZ does. Um >> heaven's mandate.

>> There's money and power that an influence that certain founders have that others don't. And it's just it's not much you can do to compete with Kangs out. So I wouldn't rely on like tweeting once a month even totally like after his first second third tweet you're like okay this like I forgot I mean people aren't thinking about it but Aster went very very high after CZ tweeted about it and he managed to keep and he knows the game like I talk about this with Ryan he just like CZ has been here since since probably before it started and he knows what people look at he knows when to tweet He He's clearly looking at

charts and tweeting through resistances and supports. >> Tweeting at the bottoms. Yeah, >> tweeting at bottoms. He's making bottoms. He's insane. Yeah. I don't think like as a founder you can you can you can attempt to imitate him. I think you need to develop your own strategy and I think I think a lot of uh founders are hopefully going to figure out how to do it. Yeah, I I think that's fair. Actually, what I think is interesting on the B&B side of things, and I don't know, there's so much being talked about over there, but they are doing this new like they have Binance Alpha, which and

like in the Binance Wild app, them and Bass are kind of doing a similar thing where more and more they're like rolling out these products that are like onchain connected, but also you're still integrated with the centralized exchange. Um, but they rolled out like this new you know, they want to get meme trading and like meme they're calling it meme rush, but there's a bunch of meme trading activity from like for me and the launchpads and stuff on on BSC lately. And so they rolled out this meme rush thing, but basically they just they want to get more people on their Binance Alpha and like Binance wallet apps to trade in there because obviously they make money, they make they make trading fee um income from that as a business.

Um but then it like it like rolls into everything else they're doing. So then they they they've announced this like pre-TGE prime sale edition on the Binance wallet and basically your your eligibility is dependent on how many points you have from farming volume in Binance alpha. So >> can I say something like this is the type of crap that I hate. I know >> to me this is like the worst type of user experience that you can have as like but I mean people like it, people use it. It's like >> it's um it's like the >> complex and I feel like this isn't something we do a lot in the west to be honest with you. I feel like it's in the west people try to do things but like

you know how if you look at Japanese websites or Chinese websites they're like a lot more condensed and there's a lot of it like everywhere versus like in the west it's become like very minimalist and like very straightforward to do things. So I think they can they think some of the I think I think in Asia you can get away with some of some things that you probably cannot in the west but I mean it allows you to launch six programs on top of one product when >> like here if you did like one product on top of one program on top of one product like what >> I just I think it's one of those things where I don't know if just like the way that

western versus eastern like business like breakdowns and like product offerings are. But it's it's kind of like that everything app sort of thing that that you see more frequently in the east. And I think Binance is really just they're kind of leaning into that where it's like, yeah, we have the centralized exchange, we have the onchain, we have the DEX activity, we've got the, you know, TGES, the token launches. So like, let's tie it all up. It's kind of like a it's like a loyalty system. You know, if you use the airlines, you earn points if you keep using them and then you get free flights. But this it's just like way more concentrated. And so it's like if you do all your trading in here, then you get a bunch of points and then it's like when we do TGES, you can get allocated and and it kind of compounds

on itself and and I think that as a business like that's obviously very it's probably incredibly profitable for them. I'm sure that does a ton for them. And I think it's similar to >> I don't know if you look at something like Robin Hood and and some of the like fintech apps. I feel like there's definitely a shift where in the west they're trying to go in that direction, but it's very difficult um I think relative to the experience in the east just because I think it's just harder to get a consumer to like >> do all of those different things in one app over here unless you're like the comp like Apple kind of has that for certain things where it's like >> they can't do it all like they they added wallet >> which is good and then like the phone you expect the phone to perform certain

things, right? But like I don't know if I would use an Apple credit card. Like I know they have one out. I don't think I would. Like I I like to keep my stuff separate. And I wonder if like that's a lot of how I wonder if it's also tied into like maybe like some personal freedom or or liberty thing where you're like I don't really want my data all in the hands of one. But I feel like if I'm spreading it across like six, seven when they get hacked, you know, I'm not getting all of my data hacked, but I'm getting twink. I wonder if it's that like there's so we have quite strong like anti- monopoly things. I know that like in Japan for a very long time they actually um promoted monopolies because it was a more efficient way to to run

the economy. No, I'm being serious. This is in the for the 80s. Uh I read about this recently. But anyway, like that's what I mean. You don't want to do >> you don't want to do that. Um so I wonder if it's related to that as well. But I mean I'm thinking about it now. I don't think I use like I feel like I separate out apps per like I have very clear distinctions, right? Like if I was using Robin Hood, I wouldn't use Robin Hood for credit. Maybe like their their card probably >> their cards are very popular. >> Maybe I'm wrong.

>> I think I think you're right in the sense that like historically it's been like that, but it does seem that we've been trending in the direction that it's becoming more common to try like all these companies. I don't know. I think this is a thing that like Mark Andre says, but like tech has been like historically the concept of just like bundling and unbundling services. And so like in some cases it's like one company does everything and so then a bunch of startups come in and they do like the individual thing for cheaper for each individual thing. And then in another case it's like okay there's a bunch of startups that do all that thing all those things cheaper but then you can just have one startup one company that does everything bundled all together and it's like more convenient and I think we

just kind of like >> sometime the consumer kind of oscillates between those things sometimes. So it it feels like we've been in more of like a I don't know a bundling up type of market where I don't know more and more I feel like you see businesses it's like okay we're doing really well at this thing now let's offer this other product get our people to use both of them um >> we're doing it in crypto as well right like >> yes >> there's no reason for realistically for an aggregator and RFQ system and a DEX to be separate and Jupiter realizes this and says you know what guys we're just putting it all under one >> and it it feels like a market maturation thing as well like um >> I think for many years we you know the

products didn't really make that much money in the first place so you really had to struggle to like find actual product market fit for your one product much less two or three um but now we're at the point where like the initial products work they make money and then it's like okay how do we make more money um you have to make more products or offer more services so I think that's kind of natural Yeah. >> Um, wow, that was a great topic. I was so heated up. Um, before I lose that steam, I want to give another quick shout out to Aptos, our sponsor for today's stream. With nearly 400 million BTC assets on chain supported by a secure, fast, and affordable MVM environment, Aptos has become the BTC 5 growth chain.

Apttose users can now earn yield on their Bitcoin via Ekko's ABTC and OKX's XBTC without the typical bridge risks and high fees. With support from Ekko, OKX, and STAX's SPTC, Aptos is the place to go for best-in-class yield on Bitcoin. Appreciate the support, Aptos. Thanks so much to our sponsor for today's stream. >> What do Man, I feel like we talked about all the things that >> we did. >> We did. I don't know. I um I was having fun with that conversation. I was going to mention that. Yeah, go ahead.

>> Salana did a lot of this very early. Um, I think they essentially got a little bit lucky. Um, because while crypto is becoming more and more mature, they also got a lot of attention. So, a lot of teams had to adapt very very quickly. Um, and they got very wellunded like Jupiter made bank on fees and they also launched their token. So they they just made a lot of money and then they could spend that money buying up other companies or making official some of the relationships that they had like the Meteora backend side. Um and I think on ETH we're just starting to get here but feels like everything is still relatively separate because people trust

certain things like people trust a for lending. Um, I don't know if they would trust it for like I'm sure they would to an extent they would trust it for swaps, but like if you're a firsttime project like Camino, you kind of have the chance to go both lending and swaps day one, right? Because it's like like you you're just getting started on building up your reputation, so you can just go with it. Um, and I wonder if like some of these established players like a and I'm I don't think that they would care about this at all anyway because they are capturing such massive lending um borrowing and like money market activity that like they probably don't ever need to go into other products. Um, but I wonder if that's kind of like a negative

for them slightly in that they're a bit they matured before the market matured such that they have a name for like one thing now and if it's going to be e more difficult for them to get get into other things. Um, like they tried a social networking app. I don't think it did very well. Um, what was it called? Lens >> lens. >> Social networking in general is just didn't work out very well. But >> they have their they have their stablecoin go. >> Yeah. feel like that's kind of related to lending. So, you can make it kind of work. It's still not doing particularly well, but it's not a bad product. I don't think I wouldn't say it's a failure. I wouldn't say anything bad about a on stream because people might get upset.

>> They'll kill you in the streets. >> 350 mil market cap on on Go. >> Pretty good. Like 350 mil. I mean, for a it's not great, right? Because like AB is such a massive play here. >> Yeah. I mean they have such massive overall deposits and lending volume but I guess relative to the size of a itself in market cap >> to one >> if I was a I would probably just work with um I don't know stripe like a combination of me stripe and a third bank large banking provider and then go into go into like issuing a stable coin for them and making that like an

official obvious sponsor like I think is doing this very very well in which they're very actively seeking um white labelled stable coins like they did the mega one they're doing the Jupiter one if I'm not >> um that's the next step right like it's recognizing that okay there's a million institutions that are going to be onboarded on chain they're all going to want stable coins if I'm going to like if I'm going to get a pie of this if I'm going to get slice of this pie. Um, I need to be involved somehow. For Athena, it's launching stable coins. For a it's probably just um all of that deposit flowing into you because you have the best best name. Um, but lending is also

getting more competitive like Oiler um Morpho obviously, although it feels like I've been hearing less and less of Morpho recently. Feels like I was hearing a lot more about them. >> Yeah, the big um the big shift that happened was that a enabled Pendle PT token collateral which for a long like a lot of Morpho's early growth growth was because they were like one of the few places where you could kind of lever those up um and earn yield on them from borrow lend. Um but I think once a recently enabled that like a month or two ago, it was fairly recent. Um they like deposits and l and borrows for that uh spiked pretty quickly.

>> I mean I can see here I imagine it was in June because in June it went from 24 bill to like 36 bill in two months and now it's at 45. So like ATV I mean it's such a massive protocol. I was thinking like can you even compare you can't compare to morpha morpha has 20% of the deposits that a has oiler has 5% of the deposits that a has like these these are just not comparable protocols um >> the um I feel like the real story for Morphos specifically is that they have they're sort of like anointed as the base Coinbase lending app um which could be pretty meaningful for them like

longer term if um if Coinbase is going to keep leaning into these like onchain DeFi app integrations to the to the exchange um and if they you know just keep broadly like sort of generally growing as a crypto um exchange platform um that that seems pretty meaningful to their long-term growth. But I I think the maybe the downside for Morpho is that like it's still it's still relatively early stage. Um and they have a you know it's like their FTV is like 1.5 billion. It's like 50% circulating the supply I think. But yeah, their FTV is like 1.5 1.6 billion relative to a at like 4 billion. The like relative value

there is pretty like questionable today based on the scale of the business. >> Yeah. But you can you can draw up the growth picture I think from for more folk because of because of Coinbase. It's just like how much how much do you value that growth? >> Yeah, it's Coinbase does have a lot of venues to expand at this point. like they have base which I think post token base will see I'm hesitating a bit about what I want to say because what I wanted to say is I think most token base will do well because I feel like not a lot of people have been farming based but on the other hand I don't have the same insight that I think I used to have into like what people are farming because the entire

farming thing has it got like so boosted in20 22, 20, 23, like everyone was wearing farming dress. Everyone was wearing air farming dress. Um, and then now it's back to that thing where nobody wants to share what they're farming anymore. >> Yeah. >> It's very private like which I think is is good overall if you're like a farmer, a big airdrop farmer. So, I'm not sure if it's like if a lot of it is from airdrop farming. I um post token base. I'm not sure how it will do. I what I want to say is that the token will probably do okay and it'll do and that will probably lead to increased activity. Um but they have like they have a Coinbase name itself which is

getting a partnership a week at this point. Base um Post token we'll see I don't expect to do horribly and then they also have they benefit a lot off of um the work that Aerodrome do the work that Morph do the work that who else they have they have a few smaller participants like Avantis is one um like they're trying to anoint small pieces. Yeah, there's a bunch of teams that Coinbase Labs has backed that maybe aren't like necessarily integrated or anointed yet, but like you know, maybe at some point or probably I guess I think Zora is kind of another one as well.

>> Yeah, Zor is a good one. Um, >> Zora changed their I don't know why the hell they would do this. They changed their uh token launch date on their tokconomics. used to be March 11th and then they changed it to a different date. >> There's like no reason that they could do this, right? >> Well, it wasn't like a typo, was it? Like if you go to like onchain the I saw that that sort of circling research. No, in the Xerox research chat.

>> Xerox research chat. Yeah. Let me I'm going to look on chain. Uh, well, I don't know if this is the original pool. I could just look at the token. What? I'm being stupid. Yeah, apparently original used to say 11th March.

11th of March. >> Yeah. I don't know what this guy was saying. Actually, I'm wrong. It's March 11th. >> It was deployed >> March 11th, >> February 28th. I'm just looking on base scan. The token contract was deployed 223 days ago on February 28th. Um, but that's not necessarily when the TGE was. >> Well, >> I'd have to do a little more digging to find when uh it became transferable. So, >> I don't know. It's kind of like a funny thing to do, right?

>> It I mean, maybe it was just a typo. I don't know why. What did they change it by two days or something? Few days. >> No, by 11 days. 12 days. >> Oh, that's strange. What did it used to say? used to say it still says March 11th. >> Oh, okay. >> Say February 28th for something. >> Oh, okay. So, I think they probably just changed the So, the the contract was deployed on February 28th, but that's not necessarily the TGE, right? That's it was just that's when the contract became was put on the blockchain, but I don't the tokens probably weren't transferable yet. So, they probably just changed it to when the transferable day was.

>> Yeah. when the actual TGA happened, which >> I guess it's just kind of like a funny thing to see. >> It's kind of whatever. Yeah, just like an interesting tidbit there. >> Yeah. Okay. It feels like if we're getting into interesting tidbits, we should end it. Do we have, shall I say, our final prayer? >> Do we have one last um sponsorship shout out? >> No, sponsor shout outs are done. Do you have a Do you have a prayer that you want to share with the class, though? I don't want to I don't have a prayer I want to share with the class but I have a few thoughts >> I want to with the class. Um we have the guys on Tuesday I am doing like three and a half hours four hours of live streams of actually important people. Um

not that Danny isn't important but I think it's going to be a really good time. I urge you to log on and listen. It is at 100 p.m. UK which is 8:00 a.m. Eastern and 8:00 p.m. Singapore time. So, it'll be live on Twitter. It'll be live on YouTube. Come check it out. Um, I don't think I'll be able to read any questions off, but you can always tag. I mean, I assume people who listen to this are are in the Xerox Research chat, but if you are not, join that. And if you are already, you can ask me questions.

I'm going to be interviewing Guy from Aina, Paul from Plasma, and Sid from Maple, as well as Ryan Connor, Karolina, David, and Westy, as well as other Blockworks research accountants throughout. So, ask me questions about what you want to me to ask them and show up and listen to the live stream so that I don't get fired. >> Beautiful. wake up 8 am on Tuesday, listen to Bach and all of his wonderful guests.

>> I'm wondering if I should start doing a radio thing for like early morning. >> Do you like a radio voice? >> I don't have a radio voice. I think you have more of a radio voice than I have radio voice. >> I feel like I could I'd have to change like I could do a different voice and make it more radiike. Do you know you made me think of this this hilarious like internet clip from a while ago? Maybe we'll end on this, but there's like this um there's like this radio station in I think it was in the UK or something like that where the the a prince or something or uh somebody died and so it's like this electronic radio station.

>> I know this one's for like lady die or something. >> Yeah, we won't be doing that one. like this is a shout out to the to the princess who just died and then they they just hit they he's like drops the beat right then and um I don't know. I think we could do stuff like that. That'd be pretty good. >> Yeah. Um that could be >> I'll work on my radio voice for next >> I don't know. We're definitely going to do to our listeners this is like a slight slight um teaser but I think we're going to do caps and t-shirts for Xerox research.

So, if you have anything cool you want to get them put on, let me know in the chat. And then maybe we'll do like a raffle or something. Or maybe I'll just send around like 40 of them to people I like. We'll see. One of them I wanted to say everybody made it but you. Um I think that will be funny. But I don't think the rest of the team likes it. So, we might have to ID. So, if you have any good ideas, we'll also take that. Um probably like bright pink I like. So, we'll see. But it should be fun. Okay. Oh, I'm finding out that it's fake. That that that BBC Radio One dance did not resume music right after Queen Elizabeth's death. It was fake. And they edited down and made it seem like they dropped that in the middle of a song.

>> Uh unfortunate. >> That's That's probably better, though. That's that's that's uh you know, let's be respectful of the dead. That would be a bit silly. Uh anyway, this has been your Xerox Research live stream. We will Bach, we'll see you next week actually from DS live. >> If you're in D, ping me on Twitter or on Telegram or in the Xerx chat and I will try and grab a >> Yeah, meet up and have a cheeky pint, lads. Come on. >> Um, but yeah, just show up to the podcast meet up either way, even if I don't meet up with you.

>> Yeah, come to the meet up. Free food drink. He will see you there. and others. >> Felix will be there for guidance. Who else is it? Is it those two? >> Felix is a scary sight, by the way. If anybody has 66 240, >> he's a big guy. >> Do not be do not be frightened when you see him. You think he's going to be like a little dude. He's not a little dude. >> Yeah. But he's he's a nice guy. >> He's not scary. >> Yeah. Like a gentle giant. >> Yeah, exactly. All right. We'll see you guys. See you at D if you're there. Peace.

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