In the future music and culture is free

Transcript

[music] [music] Okay. Hi everyone. >> Check check. Hi. >> Aloha. So [clears throat] I'm very pleased to introduce you guys these two gentlemen um Shaka and AK who has been running and organizing the m beautiful music stage and it has been really really amazing experience. Music sanctuary.

>> Make music sanctuary. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Music sanctuary. >> Um I've I've been hearing a really beautiful things about music sanctuary. So thank you so much. And then how has been the experience Shaka? >> It's been a dream come true. It's a it's been getting bigger and bigger every year and this year is very close to what I hoped it would be which means it's something for all of us to share. >> Yeah. I mean, agreed. It's just uh uh it's nice to see in a space like this, even though it's technology centered, it's Ethereum, that the culture layer underneath it, the music space being so celebrated. If you have had a chance to hang out over there, you know, everyone

comes and is really appreciating and enjoying that. And it's so nice to see everyone uh over there all the time. It's been amazing to be part of that. And so this is a diagram I wanted to share especially talking about the culture of the Ethereum and the music is a big part of the music sorry music is a big part of the Ethereum culture has been and especially this music sanctuary has been how many years like you started you know as a open source orchestra it was six years ago is that correct >> uh dev connect Amsterdam >> dev I'd say that that's kind of when >> I at least first walked into the space.

There was many pioneering music in Ethereum before then, but felt like that was when we started to come together and ETH Prague was when that really prog when we really knew that there was something special. >> Yeah, it's coming. It's been about six years and then now we have like a really beautiful things to flourish and so that is a part of the culture we address in the ecosystem and so this is a layer that the st articulated like how the different elements of society moves and cultivate. So the top layer is a fashion like obviously it's like change all the time and really fast and then commerce supports the fashion right and then

infrastructure supports the commerce. So for example Ethereum technology itself is an infrastructure and governance supports how that is used. So governance here is a community. We here in a way like we govern what we have as a technology and infrastructure. But the culture supports the governance and the culture is the place we hold our values and our ethos and our philosophies. So we are cultivating through music and each one of us has a different relationship to the music I believe. So today we'd like to talk about what the

in the future of the music and the culture is free. Okay. >> Yeah. So I mean as I was kind of thinking about that title card initially, it was this idea of like uh what does it actually feel like for music culture, the people who are helping support it in bringing it into this space to actually be free, right? And so I think I would love Shaka to hear your feelings and thoughts on that particular inquiry. >> Well, I love nature being like the core of that diagram cuz like I feel like it's the heartbeat is like the most natural part of our humanity.

>> And you know, I've said that like uh bringing people together with music is like one of the oldest ancient protocols. You know, like since tribal people on the islands were just gathering and just making noise around a fire that that's just been a protocol that we've been as communities forking for centuries now. >> I love that. [laughter] >> You know, so that is a true description of the nature being the core part of it. And that's really what I encourage everyone in in the music sanctuary to really hold is that we just need to really make that heartbeat of the space continue. And we're welcoming everybody into that space because that's what connects us is that that little vibration that's beyond each of us. You

know, all those different layers of even the fashion that I'm wearing, it's just the outer layer to the real heartbeat. So, and you know, being free um is just an example of what we all aspire to want to be. You know, we want to feel that freedom and music makes me feel free on like a spiritual level. It kind of releases me from certain emotions that I don't want to carry. It's like a healing place. So going to a sanctuary should be a place where you go to find healing and and the idea of giving it free. Should I talk a little bit about the circularity?

>> Absolutely. Whatever whatever is inspiring, you know. >> So it it started with an ukulele in the lobby at Amsterdam Dev Connect. And then every year the circularity has gotten a little bit bigger and bigger. And I kind of see this philosophy of giving gifts that when you give it outwardly, you know, you're not sitting there like, "Oh, what do I get out of it?" But you carry that gift forward and then your point of receiving is like the natural universal blessing that comes out of it. And when you receive from the universe, it's such a big flex that you get so much more strength. IT'S LIKE COME THEN YOU CAN like give an even bigger gift, you know? But if if you flip the spectrum, like if I was sitting here like, "All right, guys, what are you

going to give us?" Like, "We've got 30 musicians. We each need this, this, and this, and this, and this." If I'm sitting here with this energy of trying to extract from Ethereum, um, the first thing we would do is like take care of our own needs. And it's actually so much more of a bench press because then I'm like falsely imagining that the EF is this false sense of authority that I'm supposed to please. That is not the case, you you know, and then it's like this and then when once you get back to like, okay, we did it, then you just fall right back down to needing the next gift and it's a imploding circularity. So, for the last 5 years, I've seen this expanding circularity. Why? Because we've given it openly and we've given it free. And yes, it's in the future. Music

and culture is free, but I like to live the future I want to see. So, we've been doing it. >> Wow. That's I didn't even I just want to sit on that for a second. Yeah. And this is like the feeling you have when you feel free to contribute, free to give. There isn't this kind of like transaction. There isn't this need. It's just an open space that you feel like for you, you've been welcomed to doing the thing that you do. And just to imagine you kind of over year seeing that blossom and grow uh without actually having this like inquiry like what are we doing? it's more showing up and and supporting that. And I think generally when I got into the space of Ethereum also this idea of it being

something that uh was for everyone that they could freely come and use or support and contribute to and then it just kind of naturally in the ethereal way supports these uh things from being able to uh exist at all. Right. Um I I wonder if you want to talk a little bit about this kind of that conceptual layer too. >> Right. Um so when we create something different so I'm a designer and then I create something and then in a way like it's tangible things right music is also could be tangible things such as recorded songs and then when I create something that tangible things I actually just like actually you said

like a give right. So I I believe that creation is part of something larger. M >> so it's not my personal work but more like something like a bigger system and sometimes it's hard to understand like you know so that unknown something bigger than me is a is in our case like we say like okay so this is a Ethereum ecosystem Ethereum technology which is like network of nodes and no one can violate this things and then your decentralized networks So we see practically that's a decentralized things but is is in a way

spiritually I feel like that's actually something bigger. So I contribute or just create as a part of the bigger system. I that's how I see >> things. Have you guys have thought about that kind of stuff? >> I am sorry. >> Yeah. One one thought that I have with that is that we as creators and artists we have infinite liquidity because we source our creativity from within us right we can start up anywhere that you know we don't have to be a startup and raise any funding before we go we find that inspiration and then that's what keeps our flow going so you know sourcing it from w within we can have that infinite mindset that when it comes to creating that's the energy we should

bring. >> Yeah. And when we have these like deep beautiful things we're trying to share, they need to be shared freely. And this is something that I've been thinking about a lot. In the case of music, you know, if we're talking about the industrial side of music, the commercial side of music, the I'm trying to make a living as a musician, the first thing that you interface with when you're trying to then share the music is some infrastructure that actually immediately is trying to take from you and they're the gatekeeper, right? And so one of the other inspirations in this space and one of the reasons I got into this space which is kind of what inspired this idea of in the future music and culture will be free is that Ethereum specifically as I've gotten into it about 10 years ago

was always trying to offer solutions for artists and musicians is at least that lip service. They're like oh this is a perfect solution to help make sure artists and creators can continue to own their own things right and nothing really has stuck or been that tangible. There's been NFTTS, there's been a couple things here and there. A lot of like brilliant people have done different music companies, but ultimately they're not focusing on the important part in my opinion, which is exactly what you're talking about, which you just need to be empowered and enable to share freely. There needs to be nothing in a very light layer in between that. And then someone if they hear something that you're contributing to the world and putting out there, they need to be able to immediately connect with you and be able to share in that energy. Maybe that's financial, maybe

it's not. But regardless, I think that's uh something that uh Ethereum always communicated to me had the ability to do. The technology is there. And I think um incorporating this idea of just uh having that immediate access to share your voice to the world and then you can kind of naturally have this kind of uh this what were you calling it? This like return this uh >> circularity an expansive circularity. I mean, even we could probably like figuratively imagine that the blockchain from the first block has been kind of this expanding circularity that keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

And that would give me the hope that that could be the tending tide for the musicians to be able to continually give free, but then have that circular tie that you know, you can always see where that first block arrived. And then when it comes back to you, then you can thrive even more and give a bigger gift. you know as it goes around and around it still has to come back to the validator and where it was first confirmed. So that's where the blockchain can allow us to as artists to earn. >> What do you think that circulation is created? So what what is the activation? What is the activator or enabler of that circulation?

Why that can happen? I mean, you look up at the stars and it looks like it's got this like, you know, the swirl you see right there on the ground, you know, like it's got that spiral dynamic. Even music itself goes between the octave and then as soon as you hit the ninth, you know, you just hear that as like the frequencies get higher. It's it's got this like pattern that it's not a straight linear pattern. And it's not like a straight flat line or one line to authority, but it always curves that um yeah, the artists the artists in the future should be able to give freely but then also receive what they deserve.

>> Yeah. And I think to take this to the cultural level as well, like this this singularity or this this circular pattern of like giving and receiving is like actually the generative cycle of like where culture and where these music artifacts and this this these things come from. The people who are coming in the part of communities, they're part of collectives. They're part of friend groups. They're just existing with one another sharing moments and these moments and the ability to share those moments are just naturally creating this beauty. Right? there isn't uh this idea of getting into a you know uh ecosystem so we can uh build tools the transact to have these things occur right and what I mean to say is uh as we enter into the

kind of next decade and further more future of like Ethereum I think it will naturally disappear into what these like cultural creations are uh being created from and I think uh yeah I mean looking at this diagram that That is where we'll start to see this community continue to grow and thrive and include more and more individuals, right? You'll naturally see all these cultural things appearing and people will naturally just participate in it. There won't be this question necessarily even of like uh about the technology layer. It'll just be existing and people will have the ability to interact with it where they need to or it'll just be kind of humming along in the background. And a lot of the friction that we've interacted with of bank accounts and and distributors

and licensing agreements and pros collecting societies for the artists out there hopefully will just disappear into nothingness and then we can just create the things we want to see and it'll be just a natural transaction of this kind of cycle you're talking about. >> Yeah. Moving into like a technical example. Um, one of my, you know, pivotal experiences, um, in my journey is that for 4 years before, um, the pandemic, I used to work for my favorite band Dispatch. >> And, uh, a great example of decentralized systems just being a core value for actually um, supporting individuals in giving a gift out there is my favorite band, Dispatch, blew up and got very famous because of Napster.

Um, they were the first independent band to sell out Madison Square Garden without a label. And it all started because, you know, people were just file sharing like crazy their music when they were just a college band. And they openly encouraged that and told people, their fans like, "Yeah, keep sharing, keep giving our music, put it out there." And then it got to the point where the labels wanted to cut that off and like be the gatekeeper of that. So, Dispatch went to the court hearings and defended Napster, saying, "No, we want our music to be a gift." And there's a great book, The Starfish, um, The Spider and the Starfish, where it compares that if you cut the head off of a spider, even though it has eight legs as dyes.

But if you cut the head off of a starfish, it has many other heads that grows back, you know. And this is a perfect example of how the music sanctuary is operating right now. If you take me out of it, there's still Alaska, there's still Tommo, there's still, you know, we got uh all kinds of great musicians. Mary and uh V are in the house, you know, like we can anyone can step in. There's like music happening right now as we're talking. >> I have no idea what's happening over there and I'm sure it's fine. [laughter] >> You know, so yeah, decentralized systems actually are the core um value system for giving gifts, I believe.

>> Yeah. And like that was such a good example of where that that freedom deres, right? You can kind of let go and trust in whatever it is. This is the trustlessness, right? And then you just allow for things to naturally unfold. Yeah, it's nice. And you're building something around that sharing music as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of been one of my long-term goals, you know, is to try to find better ways and tools and and methods for artists to to kind of uh participate in a financially successful way for music to be shared. And actually it was through a lot of hanging out with Shaka and uh kind of decoupling from this idea of how do I make sure to like

make my music permissioned so every time someone accesses it they're like paying something. And then it was the recognition of like actually you don't do that at all. You find a way for everyone to freely share and then you can also freely give right. You get the other automatically. Now all of a sudden you're creating a a more symbiotic relationship which is where music and culture thrives and yeah that's um that's what arrived uh for the project I have been working on subcult which is just yeah a layer for us to contribute to music communities they can release their music for free and you can support it freely if you really want to sell it you could do that you know it's your

permission right I think we've landed on this space with ideologically the easier path is to just share openly. Um, and so yeah, that's kind of uh the main thing that uh inspires me uh to continue to build out, right? And it's this uh this free open space like everyone shares willingly and also sharing with context you know knowing where things come from is important you know it's it's uh Shaka's music but also it's Shaka it's where it happened you know it's us having this human connection that I would love to continue to see uh really uh more relationships build around right >> let's bring the copy left movement to

music you know we actually faced some loopho or not loopholes but and confusion and like a little bit of struggles. Bless the legal team of DevCon, but we had to find out that we needed certain licenses and how to get them and we're scrambling, but like copyrights actually fight against the gift of music getting distributed worldwide. But we could create a system that's copy left, you know, where the artist is always credited, where the gift finds a way to return to that artist. And then actually, if you think about it, if we're able to give global distribution free and everyone has access to that beautiful gift, likely the artist is going to see that they're maybe setting themselves up to receive a lot more if they can attain that reach.

>> Beautiful. the [clears throat] copy copy left is a com is is something concept that you created or >> no no that that's that's actually a blockchain term of of like new licenses similar to CCO and another license that Vitalic was um excited about where people are forced to credit and and also continue open sourcing it. So what if like um I want to put my song out there openly and free but then if anyone else wants to use that song then they also should open source that song and allow it to be free. And you know the idea of like naming an orchestra the open source orchestra is honestly just to celebrate all the beautiful things that all of us are working on and the values that we hold true that we keep building on each others and incurring each other and and

open source is how the river continues to flow. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then again once once you have this like attribution in this case and openly sharing then you start to know where things came from and it becomes personalized. Now all of a sudden instead of interacting with these kind of like dissecting layers and all of these uh intermediaries now it's just me and you and whoever else that cared you know and it has doesn't have to be so hard. Maybe >> I personally [clears throat] feel like um music is is a very powerful and it stays for everyone just like over

there like we experience the music and everybody enjoy it and it's also hard to really put into the society. Yeah. in um because it has so many sides and then but I feel personally feel the energy of the music >> and then the part of the music is connected to the freedom. >> Yeah. >> Because it's a humane thing and the human wants a freedom. >> So yeah, I'm excited for exploring what's next >> for music.

>> Yeah, me too. And you know I think something that people tend to forget is like music has always been also the vanguard of communication right it's where not only ideas are communicated but thoughts feelings culture right it's an abstract abstract uh an abstract expression you know a lot of the original stories of our time were actually songs passed along the way you know and so as you know we here at DevCon continue to think about you know what the Ethereum space is and where it moves forward I think understanding that these are the things that uh we'll have to learn how to to the best support and care for. All right, I think that's time.

>> Music is here. >> Speaking of music, [laughter] >> music needs Ethereum and Ethereum needs music. >> Yeah, someday music will be free. [laughter] All right. Is that it? >> And we about to have an epic closing party. [laughter] >> Yes. Um, so we will have the closing party at 400 p.m. at the music sanctuary over there. Um, and then we have um beautiful dance party right after with a um yeah, the community getting together and I'm excited to see you.

>> Thanks everyone. >> Aloha. >> [applause] >> All right. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean there are questions if you guys want to answer them. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Awesome. Get confused by the music. >> Questions up there. I know. I think it's the music outside. It's not our music, right? >> Oh, it's up there. Oh, it's just vibes. It's for vibes. All right. I hope you can hear me. Uh, all right. The first question is, what are the most promising tools or paradigms that would allow artists to create freely but also sustainably?

>> Yeah, I'll take that question. So, I think one of the things that we have to recognize is the ability to just instantly contribute to anyone is already available to us. I mean I actually with with the help of uh inspirations of friends uh did create something the on protocol which just allows for every time I listen to any song anywhere I donate one penny directly to the artist. It's so simple. >> I love that. What are your thoughts on Spotify making it premium to even choose the songs that you want to listen to?

>> I also look forward to that. It means people will start to realize there are other ways to consume music than this giant corporation. [laughter] [gasps] >> I love your answers. They're so short and punchy. How artists supposed to earn if they're giving it for free? >> Second that. >> That is a hard um question to decide, but you have to decide what is actually most valuable to me. And for me, I would say y'all, this community is way more valuable to me than money. I haven't really needed money to get by the last year, but I have absolutely needed community and I've actually needed my friends and the people around me. So, you know, whether it's rupees or

Ethereum or anything, what's most important is community. So, like an artist needs to build community if they want to continue to survive. And to jump on that, I think one of the most successful money-making systems for artists is Band Camp, which you can listen to the music for free and then purchase it when you want to support the artist. So the most successes you have as a intermediate level artist before you're a superstar is actually from letting it be accessible, right? You have to be found before you can be supported. >> That is the unfortunate truth. All right. And then the last question that we have time for is art objective? Do different people experience art differently? And does that make it harder for artists to make art that resonates with the majority?

>> You want to take that one? >> I think um it's not only art. Everything is subjective or objective. It's has a different relationship. And um I don't know what to draw to say. >> I think I think to take that for a moment um your art needs to find who it resonates with and so be as creative and as individually expressive as possible because the deeper that resonance, it might only happen with a few, but that's actually where it's important. You know, we want to enter into a space that's not necessary to have mass appeal or have

the freedom to do what I feel like I need to be doing and to find who it matters to. I don't need to appeal to millions. I need to only appeal to a thousand, you know. >> And I'll quick answer one quick question. The open source orchestra already belongs to all of us. The instruments are permissionless. [laughter] >> I love that. But unfortunately, that is all we have time for. Thank you to the team over here and thank you to all of you for showing up and [music]