Ethereum UASF discussion, 2 million ENS names - The Daily Gwei Refuel #429 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the daily great review where i recap the latest news new theorem ecosystem i'm your host and it's designer until the 17th of august 2022 all right everyone let's get into it so i came across a good thread or a good couple of kind of like tweet threads from eric wall today and this is obviously uh still about kind of like the ofac sanctions the censorship kind of like concerns on ethereum and all that kind of like entails there but i think eric's thread here is really great you should definitely go give it a read the full thread but it's basically about the kind of like uasf or user activated soft fork that uh defense or i guess like the concept of the uasf defense now uh just to give some context here bitcoin has already invoked this defense

in the past and it is actually one of the most bullish things bitcoin ever did this was in 2017 around i guess like where the block size war or the block size debate reached its fever pitch and there was a kind of like large i guess like a large group of centralized entities that were signaling that they wanted a kind of like block size increase that they were kind of like on the side of what ended up being the bitcoin cash fork in that they wanted a two megabyte uh kind of like uh block size instead of a one megabyte block size on on bitcoin so they wanted to double it there now this was out of step with the wider bitcoin community which didn't want that to happen they wanted the block size to remain at one megabyte and they wanted to activate activate segwit to kind of like increase

the block size in a different way it wasn't kind of like the same way it's not a hard increase it's more i guess like a soft increase now the way the bitcoin has expressed these concerns or expressed their kind of like voice with the i guess like um these big centralized entities and what inevitably made them cave was this kind of like uasf of running the uh kind of like node this segwit kind of like uh uh node software here from memory i might be getting the details wrong here but essentially uh i guess like the tldr was that the centralized entities and exchanges especially backed down and basically said okay well we're not going to push for this on the bitcoin canonical chain um but we will support kind of like this bitcoin cash thing which was led by roger via at the time i believe he's

still involved with it uh that ended up kind of like doing that increasing the block size i think they've increased it further than that uh by now uh and and definitely uh kind of like uh i guess like that kind of like ended those wars in that debate which was good for bitcoin at the end of the day because there wasn't that division within the community anymore and the people who wanted bigger blocks went to bitcoin cash and bitcoin has proved that social consensus at the end of the day is what matters most in these networks which is kind of funny because these days they try to bury that they try to kind of like get around the fact that social consensus is what matters the most but uasf was in reality a social consensus uh kind of like defense and now with ethereum kind of going

through all that it's been going through with regards to these um i guess censorship risks and the kind of i guess uh chatter about these big centralized staking entities such as coinbase potentially having to censor transactions due to us government sanctions and things like that there is another kind of like potential uasf defense here from the ethereum community but but the the cool thing about uh the kind of like ethereum defense is that it's actually much stronger than the bitcoin defense let me give you an example here so if in bitcoin the majority of the hash power decided to start censoring transactions all that the kind of there's only two things that could happen in bitcoin to prevent this or i guess like to to kind of like uh uh

resist this the bitcoiners or the community could ask these miners to stop doing that which is fine like you're allowed to ask people or ask kind of like entities to stop doing something that you disagree with and they can signal that this is kind of like not something that they want to be a part of or not something that they believe is is kind of like healthy for bitcoin and secondly which is on the technology side so that's the social side but on the technology side the only thing they can do is change the hashing algorithm to kick these miners out that's all they can do but if you change the hashing algorithm you punish all miners not just the offending ones you punish all them the honest ones and then essentially it bricks all the existing asics which means that the bitcoin chain can uh goes

back to being validated on you know gpus and cpus and things like that and then new assets would have to be created for this new kind of like hashing algorithm so that is probably an untenable solution so in reality what would end up happening is that i the the bitcoin chain would probably split off uh uh into maybe two or more kind of chains where they'd be and and kind of like the split off chain of the fork chain that was trying that was going to be censorship free becomes the minority chain because the majority of the miners are are on the kind of like censored one so the it really is just like a social layer defense there but if the social layer defense fails there's no technical uh kind of like way to enact that social defense whereas in the theorem proof of stake we can do this

social slashing slashing that i talked about yesterday where essentially we can only slap we can we can slash only the offending validators yes it would be messy yes it's not as straightforward as i'm i'm like saying it but it doesn't punish everyone it only punishes the offending validators now you know withdrawals enabled world it we could basically signal and we could give people time and basically say either this entity stops censoring on the network or we are going to slash them if you are staking with this entity now would be a good time to unstake and get out because if they don't stop censoring uh there is going to be a kind of social slashing event happening here and that's why i've actually been kind of like i've been happy to see people talking about and kind of like signaling that this

would happen but also at the same time i you know if it was to happen i hope it didn't happen before withdrawals are enabled because it would be punishing innocent users right and yes i know that there are risks involved with staking and the users should know these risks especially if they're sticking with a centralized entity but at the same time you know i i i i don't even know if i'd consider ethereum to be a full full 100 proof of stake network until withdrawals are enabled because like it's not a closed loop right it's just like a one-way thing and and and kind of like forcing users to suffer from being kind of like socially slashed because of uh the the entities that they've staked with decided to go against the community and you know they've got no way to exit that is kind

of like a shitty thing um but you know if it had to happen it would happen still i believe and that's why i call social slashing the nuclear option because there's so much collateral damage uh not just from kind of like the user's stake but also the other things like d5 ecosystem and stuff like that but generally that exists uh so if we're talking worse worst case scenarios and in my mind worst case scenarios is kind of like permanent censorship on the base layer and to get out of that uh bitcoin doesn't really have a tenable way to do that whereas ethereum does uh and i think that's incredibly powerful i guess ethereum to proof of stake world does and i think that while there are trade-offs with proof of work and proof of stake uh maybe the fact that you're kind of like uh i guess like um what's

the word i'm looking for uh joining up the i guess validation of the network with kind of like uh staking uh instead of kind of like having an extra protocol and outside of the protocol with mining uh and maybe you get you're giving more power to centralized entities such as exchanges and so they can serve providers taking service providers it gives you uh basically a better way in the worst case scenario to recover from any of these censorship attacks at least that's my view on things but you can read eric's full thread here for how he's thinking about it i'll link that in the youtube description and he also had another tweet thread here about the fact that really in general it's impossible to reach distributed global consensus in a system if validators can only attest to ofac compliant chain tips in the us and only

ccp compliant chain tips in china and then he says wake up neo neutrality is the only option one of these chains has a future the other does not and this is true because there's not just the us sanctions list that every nation state has their own kind of like sanctions right so like would we expect the validators to sanction like based in different kind of like jurisdictions to to only appear to one sanction a sanctions kind of list as opposed to another no that's that's kind of like unworkable because you can't reach kind of like consensus by doing that which means that the only path for it is neutrality credible neutrality with a chain that doesn't censor at all you have you either have a chain that has zero censorship or you have a chain that has 100 censorship right there is no

middle ground here so and and even if you have one that has a i guess like 100 censorship i don't even know what that would look like it's still quite hard if not impossible to do because staying in consensus would just be a mess right they'd be kind of like forks just depending on what jurisdiction you're in so it's just untenable again and eric has like some more tweets about this below here as well uh which i think is is relevant but uh but yeah uh those kind of like two tweets really got my head kind of like spinning today it really got me thinking uh and eric wahl for those of you who don't know has been around for a long time he is definitely a bitcoiner definitely came i guess like over to the ethereum kind of like school of thinking over the past

couple of years and he's definitely much bigger fan of ethereum these days but he's a bitcoin of first uh and has kind of like been through the ringer with all of it very smart guys so he's worth listening to if you're not following him i know his twitter name is erica wall but he's a bit of a troll on twitter as well i mean his bio is i will blog your eulogy so take that how you will but as i said he's a smart dude and i listen whenever he talks or writes tweet threads uh so you should definitely check both of those out i'll link them in the youtube description all right so speaking of those sanctions ban tech shared an interesting screenshot today of kind of like how many users uh you know applications would lose when installing trm uh kind of like blocking now for those of you

who don't know trm is basically this tool that allows i guess like any app to kind of adhere to sanctions but you can kind of like see the different levels here so if you if you kind of like set the trm lab software up to block uh i guess i'll kind of like adhere to certain number of sanctions or to go beyond that you get a different tier of uh the number of addresses that would be blocked in those worlds and essentially uh it it boils it down to kind of like starting from the start it's kind of like they they bucket it into ownership risk so addresses appear on a sanctions list or belongs to an entity on a sanctions list so that would be all the tornado cash kind of like addresses that were sanctioned and this covers 0.03 of addresses blocked then

you can go to counterparty risk addresses address has transacted with a sanctioned address this would cover two point three percent six percent of all addresses then there's indirect risk which is an address that has received fronts from or sent funds to a sanctioned address through multiple hops that would cover 41 of all addresses on ethereum right so you can see this massive jump here when you start when you start kind of like going down that that rabbit hole and essentially what this would look like is what happened to me with ave where i got dusted 0.18 from tornado cache and that was me kind of like you know it was an indirect interaction with those sanctioned contracts because i didn't do it someone did it for me right they sent a tornado uh sorry they sent from tornado cache to

my cell dot ether dress and then you go down the list and eventually you get to 100 of addresses blocked in the worst case scenario which is an address has received funds from or sent funds to a sanctioned address through multiple hops as well so yeah i mean it's kind of like uh crazy when you when you kind of look at these things and it's untenable unworkable and i've discussed this before so i won't rehash it but uh definitely something to keep in mind and i'll link this in the youtube description for you to check out as well uh and speaking of censorship at the front ends ab i guess like what happened to me with avery the other day mark zeller zelezella from rv put together this small guide here on running your own front end from zero to hero so basically it's a guide on how to run

your own front end uh and it's not something that is kind of like straightforward it definitely involves the command line here as you can see but it's a way to kind of like set up your own i guess like locally hosted rv front end in order to interact with the rv protocol if you ever sense it from from kind of like the front end there and this is just one way to do it there's going to be more solutions that come out especially easier to use ones such as just like decentralized front ends that you don't have to host yourself or just apps that you can download uh to that do everything for you uh so yeah this is just one solution but i wanted to put it on your radar in case you wanted a backup here in case you get censored from any of

these front ends you can kind of like start to realize how to protect yourself here and how to interact with them how to interact with those smart contracts even though you can't do so through the official uh front end all right so uh i guess like one last thing here about kind of like privacy uh is something from zach williamson who is the ceo at aztec network and he starts off this thread by saying in light of the tornado cash ban i have some thoughts on the future of privacy networks that i would like to share with you all despite the dark circumstances of the present there are grounds to be optimistic about the future for web 3. now you can give this thread a read i'll link in the youtube description below uh but this thread is full of really great information it's full of history it's

full of kind of like ethereum specific or crypto specific information it's full of a lot of great opinions and thoughts on the whole thing that we've seen pan out over the last week or so so i think that uh you should definitely give this a read and check it out but also keep in mind that you don't have to agree with everything that zach says here that's actually something that i've been thinking about a lot lately is that i have give a lot of my own opinions on the refuel you don't have to agree with everything i say i encourage you to push back on it um i don't want to kind of create an army of yes men that just agree with whatever i say uh but that goes for anyone like it does just because someone has an opinion and puts it out there especially if they have an

opinion with confidence and they put it out there doesn't mean that you have to follow the follow that opinion or kind of like take that uh to heart or believe in that opinion 100 i mean the way i kind of abu view things is that i have strong opinions but they're generally weakly held because if i come across evidence that challenges that opinion and can actually uh kind of challenge it enough to make me want to change that opinion or kind of like debunk what my line of thinking was around that then i'm happy to change that opinion it's not like i'm whole it's not it's not a strongly held opinion it's just a strong opinion but weakly held because i understand that in the face of new evidence you have to be uh kind of like um you have to be able to pivot you have

to be able to kind of like be nimble around those opinions and and the same is true for for anything so definitely encourage you to give this threat a read because i agree with a lot of what was said here and zach obviously has a lot of great context since he's working on a privacy tool um but yeah you don't have to agree with everything said either so definitely go check this out i'll link it in the youtube description below and speaking of aztec just wanted to give a quick shout out here to their latest kind of like update as well that they are supporting nucleo to enable uh private multi-sigs on ethereum so this is currently in beta nuclear enables privacy across transactions defy and fundraising or providing auditability via shared viewing keys so this is very timely obviously another product in the kind of like privacy

i guess suite that we have and this is one for multi-sigs and they still went ahead and kind of like uh i guess like launched this thing into beta even though the tornado cache got sanctioned so this is kind of trying this this kind of like is true cypherpunk here where they're like you know screw up we believe privacy is a right we're going to release this software at risk of being sanctioned or at risk of being arrested uh and we're going to like provide these tools for people to use so very very cool to see this very cool to see aztec supporting this uh and i'm excited to see i guess uh people people use this and kind of like to see this come out of beta eventually and become a staple within ethereum the ethereum ecosystem all right so speaking of the social

layer superfiz put out a great little tweet today uh basically saying what do you see with a screenshot of the consensus client diversity now i spoke about client diversity a while ago when superfiz was leading the charge on getting prism down from a super majority of over 66 well prism is now down to 34.7 but not only that the rest of the ecosystem has come up a lot so lighthouse is at 33 percent nimbus at 17.3 percent teku is at 14.9 percent uh and lodestar is is kind of like lagging uh here but still at 0.05 percent but the top four here are basically pretty close now which is amazing to see and obviously it can be better like i said to you that i actually the funny thing is looking at

this now i actually remember saying that you know in an ideal world we would have like 25 25 25 25 right across the four major clients obviously there is lodestar and some other clients out there so maybe there would be kind of like a few percentage share between that but then i also said that i don't expect that to happen because that's the ideal world but i would expect something like a you know 30 to 35 percent for prism and lighthouse and then at 15 20 for nimbus and tekku i i distinctly remember saying something like that when we were talking about this a lot so it's actually great to see that that's actually played out as i kind of like suspected and i think that that's just kind of like a really cool thing to see there but what i want to talk about i guess is um

the fact that this what what i see here what you see is ethereum social layout working as intended this only happened because of the social layout there was no technical uh kind of like uh push here i mean yes we can kind of like make it easier to run clients and stuff like that on the technical side of things but there was nothing in protocol that forced people to uh kind of like switch clients at least not yet i mean obviously if uh it kind of like a bug happened and you got slashed that is a technical kind of um uh consequence of running the supermajority client but that didn't happen what happened was the social layer got together they said these are the risks right this is why it's bad to run majority clients we reached out to everyone in the ecosystem we reached out

to the staking service providers we explained the risks to them and then we got them to move off of the majority i mean coinbase and kraken were over 90 prism at one point right now they're down to much less than that i can't remember the kind of like um the total numbers actually if i bring it up here on the left coinbase is down to only 42 percent of prism usage so after half of what they were kraken is down to 64 right so it's a pretty kind of like big uh a change there which i think is is pretty amazing to see but as i said that is ethereum social layer at work because it was all social signaling that's why it has been incredibly important to keep i guess that social signaling up when it comes to things like censorship like basically the worst

case scenarios yes maybe talking about socially slashing these big entities is is kind of like something that scares people it's something that hemi construed as fud but the reality is is that if we signal this now if we signal that we have no qualms about using the nuclear option in order to deal with censorship on the network then we can make then we can kind of like have i guess like greater uh assurances that these providers won't censor because they'll be scared of it they'll be like well if we start censoring then we're going to be you know to cause a show and it would it would cause a show and and these kind of like entities don't want that now okay there is the the kind of like other side of it where if they're forced to do it they don't really have a choice in it but

they do that their choice if they're forced by for example if coinbase is forced by the us government to censor things they have the choice of complying or they have the choice to withdraw their stake because you can actually uh kind of like withdraw your stake and your validators from the active set right now you just can't withdraw your eth that's that's what i mean by beacon chain withdrawals you can actually exit normally from staking without any penalties right now so in the in the kind of like uh event that coinbase is being forced by a nation state or by the u.s i guess to sensor i would expect coinbase to wind down their staking operations uh as kind of like the best thing to do for both themselves and their customers and for the ethereum network if they decide to

start censoring well we will use the nuclear option on that and that's not going to be pretty for anyone it's going to be a lot of collateral damage as i said not pretty there is one other path that they could take which is fighting this right fighting the the kind of like um the us government in the courts they have the power to do that they have the lawyers to do that but that would be a slow moving thing it'd be kind of like a bunch of complexity there as well and it might be damaging to coinbase's business but so would gunner getting slashed right so it there's all these kind of like game theory at play here but i think the only way ethereum can use that nuclear option or that nuclear option can even be considered to be taken seriously from these providers is because of ethereum's

strong social layer and as i've mentioned plenty of times before ethereum social layer is stronger than ever and i believe that it's going to keep getting stronger over time and i believe that like events like what's happened over the last week it just continues to strengthen it so very cool to see that very cool to see client diversity on the consensus layer uh kind of like coming along very nicely here um and and yeah i think i'm going to move on to the next update here which is from terence so terence from the prolapse team has written down some notes on how prism handles blob sidecars in an eip4844 world this helps explore trade-offs and whether blobs should be tightly coupled with the block so this is basically uh referencing eip4844 which is proto dank sharding blobs are these new transaction types that are coming with protodank sharing in order

to make it so that layer twos can get much cheaper fees uh obviously this is due to kind of happen on the network hopefully the sec the first half of um next year but if you want to read some of terence's thinking around it and around kind of like how to integrate with this within the protocol you can check out these short notes here i'll link them in the youtube description so i guess speaking of signaling avere has kind of like proposed this irc or this rv kind of request for comments to the abe dao it calls for the aveda to commit to selecting the ethereum maynet running under proof of stake consensus so obviously we know that all these apps all these default apps and everything is going to follow the proofs they consensus chain anyway but socially signaling this is pretty important at

the end of the day because i think for us hardcore ethereums we know it but for maybe the newer people to the ecosystem they may be confused especially because there's all these proof of workforce that are spinning up lately so these top d5 protocols signaling and saying hey we're actually you know 100 going to be on the proof of stake chain we're not going to be supporting these any of these other chains is a very strong signal for them to send and i'm glad to see them kind of like sending it here all right so ultrasound money gets another update today with a bunch of kind of like real-time stats as you can see here and production predictions of the eth monetary system it also now displays the exact current heat supply or the countdown to the merge so you can see in this screenshot the exact 8

supply on the left here which is 120 million 126 thousand and 108th at time of the screenshot merge estimate about 28 days and 10 hours away and then you have under a supply kind of like equilibrium calculator and a bunch of other information as well if you were to scroll down on the ultrasound money website so cool to see this update from them and yeah i mean the merge is under a month away now guys we have like that each supply at about 120 million we at current kind of like burn we would actually be like net zero i think over the last seven days so we wouldn't be technically deflationary but we wouldn't be inflationary either we would just be at zero percent issuance which is which is pretty cool right but that's kind of like at current grade prices if the market starts hitting up again you can

be sure gas prices are going to go up again and we're going to be in that inflationary eighth uh i kind of like world so i'll just say money's going to track all that for you you can go check out the website at ultrasound.money i believe it is yep ultrasound.money all right so ens has crossed two million ens names created it apparently took five years to get to one million names and only 3.5 months to get to 2 million names this is awesome i mean ans is one of the fastest growing non-financial i guess like applications on ethereum yes it has financial aspects to it yes it has speculative aspects to it obviously people are speculating on ans names but it is itself not a financial application right it's just it's kind of like a name kind of like registration service that we all know

and love we all love to use it um but yeah congratulations to them on crossing the two million uh kind of like a total e s names created i wonder if it's gonna be less than three and a half months for them to get to three million i think it will i honestly think it will considering how popular ens is and how uh kind of like their growth has been over the last few months especially so i guess congrats to them again on that just wanted to highlight that for you guys all right so there's this interesting gif posted by uniswap today of the eth usdc pool liquidity versus eth price over time so as you guys know in unisop v3 there is this concept of concentrated liquidity which is closer to a club model than it is to an amm model club stands for central limit

order book where basically the liquidity is moved around the price of the assets at you know wherever the price is and you can actually see here that the liquidity is lagging the price and you would expect that to happen considering that there's no way to know where the price is going to go you know in the kind of like short to medium term so if you're a liquidity provider you have to be reactive rather than proactive being proactive is kind of like gambling whereas reactive you kind of okay you keep your liquidity in this range and depending on how tight the range is depends on when you move it and then if it moves out of that kind of like a range you kind of like move it to that now is this economically bent uh worth it for you it depends on your size obviously gas fees

come into it another and kind of like time it comes into it too but it's really cool to see this just in gift format where you can see that the liquidity actually follows the the price here rather than kind of like the price following the liquidity i mean as is expected like it that wouldn't really make much sense the other way around but you know depending on the specification of the market maker they can actually with some relative certainty predict where the price is going to go and capture a bit more of those fees if if they kind of like have that capability the best market makers do that um i think you know that people know about jump capital which is a centralized market maker that has been around for quite a while in the traditional system they're in crypto now they have a huge

bankroll and they seem to do this where they where they kind of like seem to be one of those very sophisticated market makers which try to i guess predict where the price is going to be and move their liquidity to that i wonder if they're liquidity providers in unison i would be surprised if they're not that's for sure but i'm sure there's some on-chain data that would show that but just wanted to highlight this gift for all of you i'll link it in the description for you to go check out all right so conext is now supporting the arbitrary nova chain en users can instantly transfer assets to and from nova directly from other layer twos and chains at bridge dot connect dot network so very cool to see it connects supporting arbitramen over here this has actually been pretty quickly uh come to market with arbitrary nova and all the

supporting infrastructure around it i mean it only went live a week or two ago and now we have these bridges we have all this liquidity going in we have these kind of like users on there it's very very cool to see how quickly a new ecosystem can spin up especially one that is focused on kind of like a reddit right where i've read it obviously is partnering with arbitram on this and it's kind of like a reddit chain where you can do community points and stuff like that so very cool to see this getting usage and obviously cool to see that canext is supporting uh the arbitrary nova chain here all right finally to end us out i wanted to kind of like talk about this post that i made today on twitter where i said the easiest way to make a scalable eth only back decentralized

stablecoin is to pump its market cap to 100 trillion dollars i'm doing my part by buying eth regularly what are you doing to help the cause and then i continued in another tweet saying for those who love to snort opium this would give ether price at 800 833 000 per coin assuming a 120 million eighth circulating supply now this is obviously a ship post well at least i thought it was obvious um i obviously don't think heath is going to go to 100 trillion dollar market cap anytime soon if ever that is just absolutely huge that is bigger than the global stock market i believe but my point here is that people have been talking about stable coins recently a lot especially in the kind of like advent of the censorship

stuff that's been going on and talking about how to do it kind of like a scalable decentralized stablecoin it's really really hard to have a truly decentralized scalable stablecoin because of the fact that the only truly decentralized asset on ethereum is eighth eighth has a limited market cap right it doesn't have an unlimited market cap and in that market cap is only a small percentage of people that will be willing to collateralize eighth in order to generate a uh stablecoin for example right so let's say in like one of the best case scenarios you had 10 of the eighth you know in existence being used to back a stable coin now if it's over collateralized you wouldn't be able to generate all of that as kind of like a stable coin so let's say that 10 is 20 billion dollars worth of eth and

let's say that the clarization rate is uh 150 minimum 150 most people will stick to a 200 percent which means that you could only if i'm doing my math correctly out of that 20 billion i think if i'm doing my math correctly you'd only be able to generate 10 billion dollars worth of of a stablecoin that's not much guys like at all right that that's definitely nowhere near enough to service the world and that's already using 20 billion dollars worth of its economic bandwidth all right let's get eight to a trillion dollar market cap then 10 percent becomes uh uh a hundred billion right so you get five x let's bump pump that up to 50 billion dollars worth of stable coin uh that's able to be minted there that's again

still nowhere near enough for a global kind of like user base all right let's get into a 100 trillion dollar market cap i mean okay it might i skip ten trillion in there but like it just just for the sake of kind of like time here let's go to a hundred trillion dollars which means that we'd 100 x what's kind of available here that brings us to a five trillion dollars worth of stable coin well maybe we that that that is enough maybe that is enough for a global kind of like community to or a global kind of like user base to use a truly decentralized stable coin um and kind of like have it be extremely liquid uh and and obviously being able to be distributed to a lot of people around the world again that's still not enough but it's it's it's a lot right and it probably

could suit our needs for a while but getting east to 100 trillion dollar market cap is extremely difficult right uh and this is again making a lot of assumptions so i think my main point here is that i actually don't think we're ever going to get a truly decentralized stable queen like i'm talking 100 percent each but only back to decentralized stable coin that is scalable we can have ones that aren't scalable don't get me wrong that that'll work right i mean die before i sorry die before it became multi-cloud will die so single collateral will die was eight only backed and it could only scale so much but it worked as a truly decentralized stable coin um and there are other things like rye but again they suffer from scalability issues there's different mechanisms there but i don't think we're going to get to a point

where we ever have a truly decentralized stablecoin simply because of the fact that it is an extremely hard thing to do is extremely hard thing to scale and i'm not really convinced that we need one i think that if you want something truly decentralized if you want a truly decentralized money you can just use eighth and put up with the volatility it'll hopefully become less volatile over time um or you can use something that is mostly decentralized right uh which is obviously better than like totally centralized sort of thing but it's all trade-offs at the end of the day uh but yeah i guess i'm gonna end that there because i may have time here but hopefully that gets your brain spinning i'd love to hear your opinions on it definitely in the discord channel but i'm gonna end it there for today so thank everyone for listening and

watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give the video a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone