Ethereum FUD dispelling, USDC payments and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #780 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone welcome to another episode of delway ritual where up latest news thether ecosystem I'm your host Dan say the 12th of June 2024 all right everyone let's get into it so kicking off today we have some ETF related news not much uh and not anything too exciting but definitely uh news so there was a s-1 form filed by prar for their spot e ETF uh here now of course uh I think I mentioned this the other day pro shares was a late Comer filing for an eath ETF as you can see here from James tweets basically they had a pretty quick turnaround in filing their 19B Fe forms um and then now there's the S1 uh kind of form that's been filed here as well now of course this is as I said like not major news and doesn't really change

anything here but I did want to just quickly discuss around timelines now Nate who shared the Tweet of this today he's been uh a really great resource I think for like everyone that's been following through these ETFs he was one of the only uh I guess like trafi people following the ETFs that actually believe the eth ETFs would be approved on May 23rd so he's definitely uh someone in the know definitely more bullish than most uh and he thinks that I mean I saw another tweet before from him he thinks that the eth ETFs could go live for trading as early as the end of of June the end of this month now you remember that I said recently that I think it's more likely it's going to happen in early July uh specifically July 8th and what I meant by that was like uh that

they would go for trading go live for trading on July 8th as in that was when the first kind of inflows can come in uh and that can happen earlier there is no I guess like reason why it can't happen earlier or later right the July 8th date is just the date that I picked I hope it happens earlier I mean I'd be glad to be wrong on this I'm not trying to really be right I just figured that you know this is my thinking around it in terms of timelines but it could still happen as early as as late June it really just depends on uh how quickly the issuers and the SEC do all this paperwork as I've said in the past I guess like few months uh there isn't really much difference between the BTC and the and the e ETF so there shouldn't really be

much back and forth and it feels like at this point really I mean I don't think there's any Rush right now to launch them in terms of like fomo to launch them where the issue is like we have to launch them right now or else we're going to miss our window sort of thing because the markets have kind of cooled down here and really whether it launches in a couple weeks or in a month I don't think it really matters right I don't think it's going to make a material difference here I don't think it's going to make a material difference to the shortterm kind of Market action or anything like that but yeah I mean that's the kind of timeline we're working on so I guess you could basically say the window is late June like late late June into early July like that's the window there so not too far

away now from them going live and then we'll finally get to see what the inflows look like now it's going to be interesting because the eth ETFs are launching at a completely different time to I think when the BTC ETFs launched and in a different environment as well like if the market is still doing what it's doing now where it basically is just going sideways a lot of the uh things outside of BTC and ether getting absolutely wrecked like getting very very wrecked right now um and generally Market sentiment is down because of that I I think that the launch is going to be rather um I don't know if I'd say muted but like it'll be obviously less of an exciting thing than the BTC ETF launch but that's not bearish like as I've said plenty of times on the refi before the ETFs are a passive flow long-term

vehicle it's not something that you should be looking at every day I know that there are TW some accounts that post the inflows into the BTC ETF every day and I look at that and I'm like I don't really think that's relevant uh because there are multiple reasons why there inflows into the ETFs it's not just you know pure bu pressure it could be people doing the um uh doing like a delta neutral strategy and basically capturing the funding rate uh via the ETF because it's an efficient vehicle to do that but the point is is that over the long term it is a up ownly kind of um environment where essentially if these financial advisers say to their clients hey allocate up to 5% of your portfolio into crypto into BTC and eth then you'll get that every paycheck basically because there's the a lot of

the um a lot of the money in the ETFs is from retirement accounts and that obviously happens every week every two weeks every month depending on when people get paid and then that will go that money will go in there so as I've said plenty of times before it's a long-term thing here guys not just and as I said like even if the inflows aren't as I guess like exciting as they were for BTC I don't think it really matters because it is a long-term play here but in saying that things can change very very quickly I think that yeah the market Market weak right now I mean I even struggled to call it weak because like BTC and ether fine like I don't really consider that weak at all but the rest of the market is very weak so that's why when you go on crypto

Twitter for example and you look at the sentiment it's not great because of the fact that a lot of crypto natives they don't hold just BTC and eth ride as the majority of their portfolio they tend to go down the risk curve they're chasing mem coins they're chasing celeb coins they're chasing all these other um alts out there and as I've mentioned plenty of times before there is not really any net new money in besides going into the BTC ETFs and in the future the eth ETFs it really is just the same money slushing around and that money knows the game guys like everyone playing the game knows how worthless these things are like people know that you don't hold meme coins long term people know that most of those things are dog people know that most of the tokens are dog right so when you're in that

environment it's very hard to have like sustained outperformance to the point where you would be able to take profits on it before getting wrecked on it sort of thing so we need to basically wait for I guess like the normal cycle to play out here which I think is is definitely um you know still coming I just the timelines is anyone's guess at this point because of the fact that this bull Market's been very weird the timelines have been very different uh but generally I think that there's really no reason to be bearish like as I mentioned the other day there's not really any reason to be bearish specifically on eth and I guess BTC as well but really as long as eth and BTC are in price discovery which I think they will be I think we'll probably see them be in consistent price Discovery

maybe in like the end towards the end of Q2 into kind of Q3 there uh we're coming up on that now basically guys like we're not we're not far away from that but the the logic for that is I mean there's a bunch of different reasons but one big reason is that in the northern hemisphere which accounts for I actually learned this yesterday there's 90% of the population that lives in the Northern Hemisphere and only 10% in the southern hemisphere which is crazy because I'm in the southern hemisphere as you guys know in Australia but the logic flows here is that because it is summer because it's the warmer months and in the northern hemisphere people are out outside more right they're not inside on their computers Killing Time because it's too cold outside they're outside more they're doing summer things you know there's there's holiday periods

and so on and so forth so people aren't as plugged in so traditionally based on the seasonality if you kind of buy into this thesis and there's plenty of evidence to support this thesis essentially uh it means that the markets are just sideways basically or relatively weak in the in the long tail which means that towards the end of the year as it starts getting cooler and as the summer kind of subsides in the northern hemisphere you what you essentially get is more interest in the markets more money coming in and there's also other things to Confluence that as well you know obviously there's the macro environment which I think that there are certain macro events that play bigger Parts than others and I think this week There's a pretty big one I think it's today actually or or tomorrow um there's a meeting with the the the

fed's having the the fomc meeting um and this is a very important meeting because I think everyone's now watching to see what the US does with interest rates because the can Canada and the ECB did rate Cuts uh and they're not going to be the last ones and people are wondering okay when are the US when's the US going to do rate Cuts so on and so forth but I think all that stuff's just going to get priced in anyway but yeah I mean as I said like no matter which way you look at it doesn't really seem to be any reason to be bearish on Ethan BTC over the next 6 to n months as I've mentioned before but obviously uh the other things I can't really comment on because they're so risky and I think that they only really go up in a sustainable way

most of them during periods where there's new money coming in and like they're buying it because they don't know what they're buying sort of thing like they're not buying it because they think it's a good you know that they're not buying it because it's actually good or because it's a good long-term investment they're buying it out of fomo or they're buying it because everything's just going up because there's so much money coming in so it's good to keep on top of those uh kind of Trends and understand which part of the cycle that you're in uh and it's just getting harder and harder though as I said the Cycles are changing this bull Market's been very weird I've lost a lot of my Edge to be honest in the market and that's caused me to underperform eth on some of the other assets that I've

held for quite a while now now which is frustrating but also humbling because the reason it's humbling is cu it basically allows me to stay on top of O of things instead of getting complacent because if you get complacent and say oh the Cycles are easy they always play out the same way and then it doesn't do what you thought it was going to do you think oh okay well you know I'm I was wrong right I was I was wrong about this and and it's not as easy as I thought it was and and that's how you learn that's how you become a better invester so I'm I'm glad that we have this I'm glad things are changing they don't stay the same I'm glad people get humbled because in in markets that's just the that's just the game and you have to learn that

lesson the hard way no one can tell you no one can basically uh tell you how to trade or tell you how to invest I mean they can but like whe it's up to you whether you listen or not but even if you listen doesn't mean that they they were right um you know I think that the only thing that I've been consistently right about for a very long time now is that eth was going to outperform pretty much everything over the long term but that's it other than that I I you know any other Market calls that I think that I've kind of generally made about other assets I I mean I don't I don't think I've made those calls on the refuel or any of the other podcasts that I've done for a long time now um but just generally a lot of the stuff that I do

on on the public markets uh over over the years and I don't do much these days besides buying eth I've been wrong about um maybe not against USD but against eth and that is shitty because like I want to outperform eth if I'm buying these things I don't want to just outperform USD that's that I'm trying to stack eth here I don't really care about uh stacking Fiat as much as I care about stacking eth so if I was would have been better off just buying eth instead of this other asset uh then there was no point buying that asset right so it it does humble you and it does teach you lessons even you know me being into into this for 10 years now I'm still learning which is great I I I love learning more I love learning more about investing um investing is not really the full-time

thing I mean I spend most of the my time on the tech but when it comes to investing you're always you need to always be on your feet and you're always being humbled you're always uh learning new things about it there but anyway I went on a little bit of a rant there about that but I figur it was important to talk about that in the midst of I guess a as I said I struggled to call it a weak Market but I guess yes Ethan BTC relatively strong rest of the market kind of weak right now but this is just part of the game guys if you can't handle the volatility to the downside you don't deserve the volatility to the upside as as the saying goes all right moving on to some tech related news so Terren from prabs has a new eth research post out today titled

block proposing and validating timelines for meev Boost epbs and epbs with M boost so I think Terren one of his main focuses or his main focus over the last few months in in and into the next few months of the future has been epbs or ethereum proposer Builder separation now I've talked a lot about epbs in the past Terence isn't the only one working on it but in this post uh it's it's it's quite technical it's not for the Layman but I figured I would just put this on your radar because in this post he basically gives a um a full breakdown of each of the definitions that he's using within the epbs context of um with meev Boost uh and kind of what that looks like uh based on a bunch of different assumptions whether there's an optimist optimistic relayer or an optimistic

relayer and so on and so forth so the more technical folk among you will uh be interested in this but I also wanted to bring this up because I haven't really spoken about epbs too much lately there is a lot of work going on with it but it's quite Technical and I didn't feel a lot of it was relevant to to you guys I kind of wait until these things become clearer and become more Concrete in their specs before uh bringing it up with you guys uh too often because as I've said about a lot of these things they tend to change a lot over time because they're in the research phase in the research phase anything can change literally any part of what is being researched or what is being proposed can change so and and and and that means that it can look completely different uh

from day one of when it was proposed as like a research item to when it actually makes it into the network there and a lot of the times these things don't even get to that point they don't even get an EIP because they just don't make much sense but yeah you can go give this uh this eth research post a read from Terren and there was a another related post from Tony here uh with regards to meev boost blobs reorgs and the role of me boost now the TDR of this is that um Tony was looking at what the incentives are for each of the I guess like actors within the me boost pipeline here specifically Builders so he says here Builders might have an incentive to not include blobs because of the higher latency they cause um nonme boost users include on average more blobs in blocks

than meev boost Builders uh and then so on and so forth you can give this a read U but it's really in the context of blobs I should have mentioned that at the start there sorry got to mention that there but it's really in the context of blobs and I think I remember talking about this on the refu maybe a month ago or a month or two ago where essentially because blobs is this new primitive and because uh blobs don't have as much incentive to be included in a block as other transactions do from an me perspective there are periods of time where Builders may not have the incentive to include blobs uh because of the fact that they aren't as profitable and also they cause a higher latency uh when basically when it comes to meev it's all about latency it's all it definitely is is a latency game that's

why we have things like timing games which are quite toxic uh if taken to its logical conclusion so Tony's been looking into that lately and he has a really great post here which I suggest you guys go and read I'll link it in the YouTube description below but yeah it it definitely falls into the whole kind of overarching me research that's being done uh for ethereum as part of uh that road map item I think it's the scourge um the roap item that um vitalic has on his road map diagram there all right all right so I mentioned yesterday that op star uh or op mainnet uh is on stage one now of the decentralization journey because they had brought out their fraud proofs now of course every op stack chain will be able to integrate fraud

proofs now so I expect other chains to follow it's currently live on op main that but I expect Bas and others to follow uh quite soon here now L2 beat has the tracker live for this so if you go to the L2 beat website you can actually see on here that op m is now stage one but base is still stage Z so this is kind of what it's going to be like for the rollups that are built using infrastructure uh like the op stack like the polygon cdk like uh you know what arbitrum got with the orbit chains where essentially there's going to be a piece of of um an upgrade or a piece of infrastructure that's released or a software update that's released that is applied to one chain not the others so there are going to be things

that make sense to be applied to op main that are not base or to base and not Blast for example but when it comes to something like fraud proofs obviously that makes sense to apply to basically every op stack chain unless they're applying something better such as a validity proof or ZK otherwise known as a ZK proof year so it's going to be interesting to see I think Bas will integrate and and some of the other larger op stack chains will definitely integrate fraud proofs uh quite shortly but then it's going to be interesting to see if they break away from that and decide that it makes more sense for them to implement validity proofs when there is an agreed upon uh validity proof framework uh that is included in the op stack and maybe we see op mainnet still staying on the fraud proofs because op mainnet is

run by the optimism team uh and stewarded by the optimism team and obviously they're all about optimistic rollups but maybe Bas is like you know what we love the op stack uh we love the tech behind it and everything else about it but we don't love fraud proofs we like validity proofs so let's include them in because it gives it you know maybe a better user experience so on and so forth and I actually think it would make sense for Bas because as you guys know uh validity proofs or I guess ZK rollups they get cheap cheaper the more transactions there are because they can amortise the cost of the proof Generation Now proof generation costs are coming down bigly over time already but then when you already have a lot of transactions on the network like bass has it makes a lot of sense for you to

become a ZK rollup and to integrate validity proofs in there because you can keep costs the same if not cheaper so I think that's what it's going to happen eventually is you'll see bass become especially bass become a ZK rollup I feel like arbitrum 1 it seems like they're going to stay optimistic roll up they've invested a lot of time into their for proving architecture so it remains to be seen I yeah I just don't see them going towards um towards uh being um what what is it being a ZK rollup or or integrating validity proofs anytime soon um and actually on that note as well I do want to mention that I made a mistake yesterday where I said that arbitrum 1 has permissionless fraud proofs they don't yet they have permissioned fraud proofs still I think there's 14 whitelisted actors that can uh submit fraud proofs uh whereas op

stack has permissionless fraud proofs so there's a key difference there I got I got a bit mixed up there so just wanted to clarify that and thank you for the people who called me out on that um always open to be being called out if I make a mistake of course but yeah that's that's kind of what I see and in terms of timelines for bass I'm not sure when or when they would do it but I feel uh by do what I mean become like a ZK rollup but in terms of integrating fraud proofs I feel like they're going to do that ASAP it doesn't really make much sense for them to to wait here so I I can't wait for them uh to do that there now speaking of actually let me have a look here yes I want speaking of I guess like uh uh the different stages

of rollups and optimism implementing fraud proofs vitalic had a great little Meme here on Twitter today that he shared where it's basically the meme of the Grim Reaper going to each door uh and basically knocking on the door and killing what's inside and then going on to the next door and each of the doors is labeled with a piece of ethereum fud so the first door starts off with you know ethereum will never launch obviously we we you know ethereum launched and that fud's dead ethereum will never get past the Dow Fork you know we got past the Dow Fork the merge will never happen obviously happened l2s will not have low fees l2s have low fees l2s are just multisig you know l2s aren't just multi because we have things like fraud proofs in place uh and and and Escape hatches and stuff like that

and then the another door that the Grim Reaper is knocking on has a bunch of other fud pieces such as you know the cross L2 ux is too fragmented running a full node takes too much space me centralization and Builder ship Builder censorship overall now the reason why I like uh this and it's not something new obviously we you know anyone who who's been paying attention to the ethereum ecosystem or the crypto ecosystem for a while knows that what tends to happen is the haters pivot their fud right they're always pivoting from one fud to the next each time we dispel it I remember when the fud the main piece of fud was that chapella wasn't going to go live and staking withdrawals would never happen on ethereum which is the dumbest fud some of the dumbest fud I've ever seen but you know that then obviously

withdrawals went live and that fud gets getss dispelled completely and then they just move on to the next thing so it's it's never really about being concerned it's it's it's always about concern trolling it's always about bringing up things bringing up weaknesses attacking those weaknesses and then once that weakness has been kind of fixed or once that that weakness has turned into a strength they move on to the next weakness so there's always something new for the haters to Pivot to here and I'm glad for valital that vitalik highlighted this on Twitter because he has such a large following and with vitalik on the crypto Twitter front lines it does a really good job of keeping ethereum I guess like fud to a minimum and basically dispelling a lot of the fud for people because there is still a lot out there I mean I've been

doing this education thing for ethereum for a very long time since 2018 guys and it amazes me how much fud there is still and how I guess like much mental gymnastics some of these people can do to come up with pieces of fud and a lot of it actually is just straight up lies like there was some fud that appar that someone said that consensus was going to sell all of the pre-mined eth uh because they owned all of it or something like that and because the ETFs are now live and I looked at that I'm like what are you even talking about like this makes zero sense at all and I think we already know that consensus sold a lot of their eth during the 2017 2018 period because they used it to fund consensus they used it to fund the company right so it's

just like that kind of fud that I mean it's just so stupid that it's not even worth people's attention but it gets the haters going right it really gets the haters going so I just wanted to highlight that valalik put this out today and and it worked as a really nice way to dispel a bunch of the fud will just show that a lot of the fud just gets dispelled by the reality anyway and there's no point listening to people that are trying to FUD ethereum at this point I mean I think that there are a lot of good criticisms about ethereum there's a lot of constructive criticism out there ethereum is not perfect you know but at the same time there are things that people say as fact that aren't fact like saying that al2 would not have low fees is really dumb uh even

you know pre- blobs because we knew that blobs were going to lower the fees we didn't know exactly by how much but we knew they were going to lower the fees uh saying something like the merge will never happen was completely dumb because for at least a year at minimum we knew that it was possible on a live kind of environment because we were doing it on test Nets we were doing the shadow forks and then we did it and it went off without a hitch it actually went so perfect that I think a lot of the researchers and developers were surprised by how well it went because they expected something to go wrong obviously when you know how the sausage is made you expect something to go wrong but it went went so so well but the thing is is that you didn't have to wait

until it happened to know that it was going to happen there was so much information out there for to digest and I covered it so much on the refuel so it's it's always funny when I when I see these things but yeah I don't want to Dole too much on that one there just wanted to highlight that uh so now moving on to the next piece of news which I believe is something that again that I've been talking about for a little while here but I'm really excited about is that uh coinbase's smart wallet now supports gasless usdc sends on Bas I talked about I think a few months ago about how Bas has an incredible opportunity to become the de facto payments rail for ethereum or for crypto using usdc now of course usdc is not the perfect payment currency it is

centralized it is tied to the US dollar or at least kind of tried attempting to be pegged to the US dollar right um and it is completely and utterly centralized and your funds can be Frozen at any time for whatever arbitrary reason uh so it is not something that is a censorship resistant money but in saying that it is a massive upgrade when you have usdc on base over the existing payment Fiat payment rails because if you using the existing Fiat payment rails you're pretty much uh subject to the same kind of centralization risks and centralization vectors that you otherwise would be with usdc so why not just get usdc and use that instead if you can do things like do shopping online e-commerce online sending funds to people through uh through Bas instead of on venmo for example and so on and so

forth so I'm very glad to see that uh you know bass is doing this in a gasless way uh for usdc senia using coinbase's smart wallet and I I didn't really doubt that they would do this I always knew that they would do this but I'm very glad to see it actually materialized because tether has a pretty big dominant uh lead over usdc right now and that lead only grew since um usdc had a bit of trouble with its Peg last year uh but other than that I tether doesn't have its own layer too right usdt majority of the small payments is on Tron which is something that tea doesn't control so or t has nothing to do with really it's just a circumstance of the fees were cheap there now they're not so cheap anymore but they were cheap there and

Tron had a lot of Integrations with places like binance and and other big exch you know offshore exchanges so it managed to grow uh quite wildly there but I am glad to see usdc continue to grow and continue to be used in different ways or in kind of better ways on base here so the reason I'm bringing this up is because there's the video Here video demo here that Nick prince who works in product at coinbase shared of basically doing this on the bass network uh which is which is really great to to see you can go check this out for yourself I'll link the video in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right in case you missed that the first episode of Into The Ether went live uh for the the first episode in the for the last two years I should say went

live and I'll link this in the YouTube description below for you to check out but it's live on uh basically all the podcast apps I believe and on YouTube but as I mentioned yesterday there is no video it's just audio but hey all you really need is the audio you don't have to be staring at my beautiful face all the time and Eric's beautiful face all the time right you you just need the audio you just need our bullish energy and that's what we bring in this episode so go check it out I'll link it in the YouTube description below uh for you to do so now I've got a few minutes left here just wanted to talk a little bit about the markets I mean I always kind of not hate talking about this but I always kind of feel a bit exhausted talking about this but then I go on the

Discord Channel and I see everyone kind of being like what's happening with the price what's happening why are we dumping you know I thought the ETF was going to be bullish so on and so forth I just want to again reiterate this point of the rest of the market besides Ethan BTC is doing quite poorly right now I mean no one could say it's doing well like they've pretty much reset their performance back to sometime last year but Ethan BTC are doing incredibly well I mean you can bring up any chart you want for any time frame of Ethan BTC and you can see just how well they're doing let me let me bring up a chart here so I can better illustrate my point so give me a sec I'm just going to bring it up from a different tab here so let me just

illustrate this on my screen for you so this is this is the eth USD weekly chart here now obviously this is a long time frame this is going back to last cycle but if you look at the recent kind of price action here let's say from from the bottom really and the bottom was June of 2022 mind you so two years ago now I guess like almost 2 years to the day 13th of June yeah so uh actually might have been in that week so basically almost 2 years to the day was the bottom on ethusd uh of of this cycle here now what has the chart done since then guys like this quiz I've given you the answer in front of me what's the chart done since then or what's the price done since then it's gone up only yes there have been periods of time

where you know it goes up and then down up and down but the general Trend if I'm drawing just drawing a trend line on this is up right like and this is a really rough kind of trend line it doesn't really fit here but hey the general trend is up here uh and it's up since the bottom of what whatever it was 880 to today's price it's up 300% since then right that's over two years now if I was looking at this chart and I didn't have any other context about what was happening I was just looking at this chart I'd be incredibly bullish I'd be like okay well like it looks fine to me I mean look at this like every time it goes down a bit it just gets pumped up again it just gets bought up again you can see here every time it's gone down

it's just gone up again and it hasn't gone into a parabola phase either like you can look at the last kind of cycle and look at what that looks like when goes you know it goes into a parabola phase there and then you can switch to even the monthly chart to see an even uh a clearer picture here of what this looks like like you're looking at this and I'm just like this is really bullish like this isn't the bull Market's not over here e is doing incredibly well on on the chart and then I mean you can even go back to like like the whole long-term trend of just E's life has been up and BTC looks the same if not slightly better actually because of the ETFs here but then you can go to the other coins out there obviously a lot of

the long tale of coins I don't want I don't really want to peck on any coins there's not really anything that I can kind of show you without picking on something besides maybe like um I think there's like an alt chart that I've forgotten the tick or four here uh but essentially you know you look at the other things that people like to to be in and they're not doing too hot right even like anything most things in the top 10 or in the top 20 top 30 not doing too great I think that's why people essentially are a little bit bearish yard like if I you know what I'm going to pick on one just because it's a bit of a meme cardo right like Ada USD like if you look at this and you look at kind of what it's done over I guess that's

the monthly chart let's go to the weekly chart here uh it it hasn't really done very much right hasn't really been kind of that impressive in terms of price action yeah it's gone up a little bit after it kind of bottom here but hey it hasn't been that impressive right and a lot of the charts look like this I don't I don't want to pick on any but I just figured I'd pick one out out of random here whereas you s something like eth or BTC they look uh a lot better right they look a lot better in terms of price action I mean you can even just see like cardono against eth what that looks like you know it's down only right and a lot of charts look like this but my point here and this is just to illustrate this showing you the charts is just to

illustrate a point in that there is no need to be bearish guys like there's no need to be upset here if you are heavy into other coins other than eth all I can say to you is that like that was your decision that you made and that's the risk that you play If you are going into other things you always risking one underperforming eth and one basically getting chopped up because these other things are so incredibly volatile compared to eth like so much so much more volatile compared to eth and BTC so from that perspective I understand why sentiment is in the gutter because a lot of people aren't in Ethan BTC because they want to be risk on because they think that I'm not going to get a 10x or 100x from Ethan BTC anytime soon you know I need to make more money this this

cycle because I want to uh basically become financially independent and they start making really emotional mistakes about things they start going into projects and they're getting emotional about it when the the tokens aren't going up you know can the devs do something those sorts of things so that's that's kind of what's happening I think and I I think it just gets worse over time too because aan betc are really strong and have really strong hands compared to these other things and have actual fundamental value uh uh behind them especially eth as you guys know like I've outlined plenty of times before why eth has such strong fundamental value behind it but yeah that's that's the kind of state of play right now there but anyway going to wrap that uh today's episode up there so thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the

channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to newsletter join the Discord Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone