ETHCC Convos: Unstoppable Scaling & How Polygon 2.0 Redefines Rollups with Jordi Baylina

Transcript

foreign this video is brought to you by connect connects is a cross chain protocol that lets you build crushing applications and experiences in a secure way Rob and I really enjoyed their Tech because they don't add any new security assumptions on top of the connected change as they don't rely on an external validator set or an oracle security is definitely Paramount in D5 so we're excited to work with connects hope you enjoy this video good morning HCC is Andy from the roll up with the first interview of the day with our good friend Jordy we've watched Jordan go from Hermes and the early days to now switching to polygon about a year

and a half ago or so and building out a really really cool CK stack over there and there's been tons and tons of news from the blog side with this new Pol uh Proposal with the switch to ZK validium from POS Shane of course uh the ZK evm which we've been helping out quite a bit with a safe actually getting them teams over there trying to build new daps so we're gonna try to touch on all those things and some of the cool interesting Concepts that you are working on so good morning Jordy how are you good morning yes sir so I guess which which is the most exciting or what is the most exciting aspect that you are currently

uh you know pushing forward on foreign this wasn't really important Milestone not only for polygon but for the ethereum space this is the first step for scaling and currently what we are doing is just improving this KVM and actually making the scale happen we are just this this system is your systems we are getting a lot of maturity we are rewarding a lot of applications in in the system we are improving some of the pieces and yet getting ready for

explosion that will happen very soon yeah I remember um the talk that you had it was either last year in Paris what was last year here was that um Denver where you announced that zik Abram was live or that it was going live give me last in last year here in Paris but truly the point was I would say one lesson based on the pieces were there of course from the pieces pyramid to going mainstream going mainnet it looks like cover yeah a lot of holiday things and a lot of uh just

uh like doing some of the pizzas and getting them production ready but yeah this was less this was last last year and uh yeah I mean was really important really important moment we opened Source all the code at that time and it was a very important one because we explained it what we were doing that and now we are just um getting these mainnet as being the my entry point to like this

idea of CK Rolex being compatible with EDM chains and I mean that idea has been grown upon now um you know and we're seeing its scale with polygon ZK yeah I always remember you being very bullish on ZK Tech from some of the first conversations that we ever had um I'm curious about what the current developments with polygon as well as outside of the broader polygons fear kind of hydro mental model towards how the ethereum scaling Vision with ZK has that evolved has it changed um you know and if not then what is your what is the model that you can kind of foresee for the way in which ethereum will scale with ZK Tech with rollups in general

what your I would say that there is a couple of there's some breakthroughs I mean remember the first vitalik boss talking about Roll-Ups and splitting you know separating the the concept of that availability and the pro the concept of uh verification of the computation splitting that that was really important for scaling in general then there is uh there was another also another blog post from italic explaining a little bit the strategy of ethereum and fact that they 302.0 is focused very wide will focus very much in that

availability and then one other teams in the community will build the serverless or these computation this computation layer so I would say that this has changed very much and it's very clear on the strategy and the last week in polygon we announced polygon 2.0 zero explains an architecture how to bring this idea of scaling with multiple relapse we like to call it the constellation of our Labs running together with the same with the same Charlotte liquidity and being different prolapse but you can

interact with each other if you see this this is has a lot of similarities of the original idea of the day of ethereum even just before the Roll-Ups and remember the first conferences from Italy in 2015 2016. talking about this International implementation so we are bringing uh with this polygon to Brazil we are making reality to your question is uh this uh we have to start seeing uh how these uh blockchain space will look like

in the in the coming years we see this constellation of prolapse will change technology this is the core the core piece of the polygon 2.0 creating this proof for review this single proof that will aggregate all the proof of all these chains and will act like just transferring I mean just communicating and transferring if information value between the chains and I mean if you read the the white

paper we just published the last last weeks you have there are other all the specific details and all the specifics and this is very much the roadmap of uh polygon but also the roadmap for for for skinning ethereum yeah yeah it's the so a bunch of really interesting points to bring to the table here so first I did a podcast with Brian from uh layer zero Labs he's CEO founder they've been built easily the biggest crush in messaging platform in our V5 and he told me that by far to the tune of like 80 of their volume is coming from roll up to roll up transfers um just pure interoperability between you know optimism arbit room

um ZK sync optimism Etc et cetera so um the the pure desire and demand for that interoperability kind of cements the point of what you're saying in that that's that's the future people don't want to transact go back to layer one to go back to a different Layer Two to access you know a different set of applications they want to have it be a seamless experience something that's kind of opened my mind is when you say shared liquidity so we have let's say like these these kind of layers are almost like to the end power like it can just go on instantly in this constellation form that you uh that you described but what's kind of intriguing me is

um are are you seeing that there's possibilities in the future where um I can have let's just use Roll-Ups that we're currently familiar with so I can have um you know let's say two optimistic rules arbitrary and optimism or let's just call them Bob and Alice where they are different roll-up ecosystems a different execution environments but they utilize the same liquidity the same shared liquidity on daps indexes on money markets or or am I misunderstanding that kind of aspect yeah well I see that basically possible in ZK Roll-Ups I don't see it possible in optimistic works as the fact optimistic roll ups they meet for exiting an optimistic rollout you need to wait a week and

for personality I mean you cannot I mean if you want if you are in if you live in one bowl app and you want to go to another world maybe you don't want to change or something for your operation and then come back to weeks whatever go back and the other back forth so for me optimistic more labs are out of the question they can could make sense if you are inside and optimistic human even optimistic and you are I mean your own bubble but if you want to communicate we need to go to CK technology because the case what gives you this mediate foreign [Music]

abilities of the the composibility between these roll ups can go fast but maybe there is another level is like for example between different they can still use layer one to communicate they may not go maybe as fast connected with the same we share liquidity but they but still possible so maybe instead of taking 30 seconds maybe take one but that's maybe that's fine for some of the applications and for this and it's going to be different levels and even between uh we see that even between these uh same goes division can be Roland that they are they have some level of trust

between one each other and they can even go faster and they can interact much faster money each other with the top here the result of possibilities here we are studying we are analyzing we are seeing that we are we are seeing how this would look like uh but they they are but the ideas is this I mean the ideas is that uh all these rollups they share they can share a single proof so they share a signals against a lot of security is based on the same and that's why you have this shared the share security between the Roll-Ups this is what allows you to do this where they share the same proof uh the

same system so the same security um the end is one you are joining to collapse example at the end the security is the the worst so the security of the full system exactly so it's um but if you have a construation of prolapse that all share the exactly the same the same the same proverb that means that all of them have exactly the same security so you can guarantee yeah yeah with that there's um the composability aspect like you say um because of the lack of that seven day withdrawal and the drug groups with optimistic there's complexibility there

where you can still quickly transfer funds from different Roll-Ups within this constellation basically utilizing all the same liquidity even if it's semi-fragmented amongst those roles but it's effectively like they're all the same one using the same kind of security model the improver um and then you have the capability to have still a very very fast cheap transactions but those use cases and that liquidity which I mean yeah like you said just isn't available is also just light years of layer ones and just kind of the slow gas cost transactions that we see now yeah I think I mean this is all the

things of course we are very early yeah we will see the evolution of all these uh and it's going to be interesting to see how what will end up with the end but yeah you know you're just putting the pieces together as best you can and somebody else who's who's doing some cool r d comes out with some other puzzle piece and you're like

whoa that sounds like a good piece to use in my puzzle you know yeah but that's a good thing of the new technologies even the person that's creating this technology does not even know how this technology is going to be used this is this is part of the of the evolution of the story of the evolution in this case the evolution of the blockchains and it's very exciting because this opens it's also give a lot of support it's a huge a lot of possibilities and yeah I mean we are we're still seeing a really really interesting moves in the other day that first was Zero was just thinking or just starting to to be uh to be a layer to in ethereum I mean uh

the community lossy is just announcing the payment system yeah using also as a game yeah I mean it's a lot of interesting things that are happening and nice it's nice nice moment to leave uh this point is yeah the availability of this technology yeah I mean once you have scale the applications and the possibilities become much closer to infinite you know and I mean with each day and each month passing being the broader Spears getting closer to those like infinite possibilities where you know it wasn't even imaginable to be able to to do so on um you know let's just call like Bitcoin Network or Dogecoin now now we're looking at like ZK Roll-Ups uh working

at very high through but l1's uh modular Stacks like yeah the um the the broader scale brings in those new Innovations and I think this is a good kind of point to wrap up with one last thing I guess it's a you could go and build any sort of passion project or like fun cryptokitties-esque or trading cards or gaming or or what what what would you build um as a passion project uh when you're not you know super busy pushing the batteries CK set for me there is one project hope that at some point it would be late or something only somebody else will

believe that for me it's a little bit for me this technology is one of the things that allows is liquid democracy for me what allows is uh changing the way that people organize themselves having a world of communities having a world where you are part of a community you are a part of a system so that means that you are active part of you have responsibility to improve the community and for this is for the community is to work you need some sort of relegation but at the same time the some sort of responsibility and would really love to see a little democracy

happening in a human level uh on that until now organizing oriented democracy radio was hard but this technology is to do this and I would really love to see these this this project to have admit this is a personal project but yeah that's one of the projects that have the building now but uh it's an important project s a lot of interesting projects uh to do but this one is uh one of the one of the projects that I'm excited

in the long run yeah cheers yeah no I've been gone any other applications with a I mean so it's just gonna enclosure we've got the idea of of crypto and the the ethos of Bitcoin has been libertarian so you kind of bring some of that mentality into the table with making the state of governance at more fair and more equally distributed amongst you know kind of society yeah and I think one thing that you may not have realized but I understand as an American is last election we had all this crazy like oh Donald Trump and Biden and um fake voting and all those things and like you know there's just a simple solution here you know it's CK freaks guys like it's a very simple

solution to all this kind of fraud you know so what I'm explaining crypto I always put these two examples one is that electronic disgrace is different but it's like okay at the end is at the end is uh his trust is a central Authority I mean do you trust so do you again you have to trust somebody I mean you trust that Venezuela is a democracy or they are fake or they are fake uh elections Blue Cross of America is a democracy or they are fake elections there was a couple of people in U.S and they were thinking on that so and this is pro this is a problem huge problem it's a huge problem because at the end you end up having to trust

humans and humans gets Farah this technology allows you to avoid having these uh Central um I mean Central authorities managed by humans and you can you can you don't need them I mean you need you have much you have technology that allows you not having to trust humans and this is definitively one of the biggest values that this technology can add to the humanity yeah and Rob would love to be here he's he's very upset that he's not here right now he's back at home making sure that the business is pushing forward but from a more optimistic and naive lens also people just make mistakes you know not

you know people just don't always do the right thing on the purpose or or an accident and preventing against corruption as well as just human error that's a win-win especially with technology where it's automated and systemized I mean yeah thank you for coming on Jordan it's been an absolute pleasure but it's a third year in a row I think I appreciate it here you know