ETH Staker Community Call #11 - Jerome from Ledger, and Launchpad Roundtable

Transcript

hey everyone welcome to the eatstaker community call i think it's number eleven uh today is november 16 2020. we have uh an exciting call today we have a bunch of uh community members who are here to chat with us about their experience using uh the deposit launch pad and experiences with how things have unfolded with deposits in general um and before we get started i'd like to introduce a couple people um namely the eath staker core team that's uh lamboshi who you know as or i know as nolan uh patricio worth halter

who represents poep as well michael geeson who goes by unvetica and buddha who goes by enon uh that's really backwards but uh the butterman i was gonna call you butter because i finally uh buddha has a identicon on discord that is a yellow swirl and i just found out that that is a butter swirl because his name is butter i don't get it anyway um as we get rocking and rolling on this call we have two major parts today the first part is really exciting it's a discussion with jerome from ledger um and in our pre-call we chatted and um our participants know that jerome is

willing to add to discuss any questions the two things we're most excited into hearing about today are the integration with of uh the ethereum two launch pad with ledger x um and i know that a lot of people have uh still these swarming questions about the data breach that they'd like to learn more about so let's see without further ado let me tell you that we're going to spend probably 15 or 20 minutes chatting with jerome and then following that we're going to spend uh 15 or 20 minutes or however long we go um chatting about experiences with the launch pad good bad or neutral just an opportunity to learn

so jerome from ledger welcome welcome everyone thank you thank you for having me thank you for giving me the the opportunity to uh to speak today about uh what we are doing at leisure to uh to support ethereum too uh i've prepared a couple of slides to uh to share with you uh in order to frame the discussion so i'm also uh quite excited to see a couple of known faces in the in the chat patricio jazz it's uh it's good to see you there i'm i'm kind of uh sad that i didn't hear about this call before um because myself i've been i've been sticking since uh uh

medalla and and uh and uh tested before uh so i work at ledger as the the global head of client success so i'm responsible for the the support both on the b2b and b2c side and i also run a couple of our initiatives such as uh participate with the initiative on interim too uh and i hope to see you all in march uh at nct in paris uh because we are going to do this conference again so i hope i hope to see you there as well so what we've been doing so far regarding interim to support that ledger uh so as you know we have uh the

withdrawal key and the validating key that's the different keys that you need to to deposit you need to to generate and put in the in the deposit function of the deposit contract and it's currently a kind of a pain to to do so uh you need to you need to download the command line interface from the foundation and uh from this command line and generate your uh recovery phrase and your two different keys or your multiple keys if you want you want to use several validators and for us uh doing that is kind of uh kind of the wrong way to do so generating your your seed phrase on the your computer

uh if your computer is uh is compromised that's that's a problem uh copy pasting uh if your computer is compromised that's a problem uh dropping the recovery phrase inside an email or a file it's it's a problem as well so we wanted to make sure that we allowed our clients to uh to actually do that on their own uh inside the secure environment of a legendary so that's what we've been busy doing uh back in early august uh if you've been following closely our firmware release we added in early august the cryptographic support

for stock 256 and bls 12 381 so that was a first step a let's say a discrete first step in supporting ethereum ii and from that we have created an interim 2 app that you can see on on this picture i've taken this afternoon on my own legendary x and there is an interim two application you can access right now uh so we we've created this term two up and tried to reach out to uh to devs that were willing to uh to test it i've been trying to be vocal on the prismatic lab

discord about that saying uh if you want to try it out let me know you need to change the provider in your ledger life but you'll be able to find this app if you if you have the right provider and you will be able to uh to interact with it so this interim 2 app supports creating and verifying messages sent to the deposit contract because we have another version of the each room one app that passed the contract properly and you'll be able to retrieve these role keys between signing public keys given the hd pass that is recommended inside the elp 23 statistic and you can also sign arbitrary message

using the withdrawal and validating key over the proper curve there is a documentation available if you would like to give it a go i'll drop the link in the in the chat and if you if you want to interact uh remotely with your if you want to try directly with your with your nano x you'll be able to do anything that you're supposed to be doing in order to participate to the deposit contract in order to uh to interact with your keys from the note and what i'm happy to announce today is that tomorrow we will do publicly this new firmware release that lets you publicly access

to the interim 2 app and the new iteran 1 app 1.6.0 so there is already a message on our ledger academy website that uh we've used to tease the the event uh and the change log will be published tomorrow on our app center so tomorrow i won't even have to use the the documentation i'm going to drop in the in the chat because uh you'll be able to access it of course it's going to be made publicly available tomorrow what's next on our end well we want to have a better ledger support in the launch pad so if you guys inside the chat or or watching this later are willing to give

it a go on how to uh to integrate the ledger uh directly inside the launchpad and prevent well that prevent will propose a different uh different approach than the common interface do reach out i would be very happy to connect you with the teams developing that uh at ledger and and help you on supporting this um it would be a great to have a ledger to uh ethereum 2 a laser wallet management available in the nodes in the similar ways to what is done with jesus and cosmos validators so there is a staking app for teslas and cosmos available on the journal if you're a validator on those chains

you just use this up and and and do the validation works directly from your nano so you won't have to uh to do the the whole trick directly from your your computer you can have the the wallet being hosted inside your legendary um so myself for example i i deposited the 64 ether uh and i i i generated my my withdrawal key using uh using my my legend but i'm fine with having the the validating here hot but if someone is willing to generate uh to create a connector maybe on do for example uh the things that have

been developed by by attestants uh i think it's a it's an appropriate path to follow um what's next uh what what else is next so we want to look at different staking services possibly inside ledger live so we've been chatting with uh several uh staking services that are about to go live and to see how we could give them access to ledger live and we have ongoing discussions with them so if you plan on having a staking service that will give access to staking capability to a retail do let us know we are looking for partners and

have a tendency to be a very agnostic in our partner so very happy to have a chat about this and at later stages we are going to uh [Music] have the legendary support on ethereum 2. the reason why we focused on nano x first is because the nano x has a higher bigger memory uh so it's easier for us to support new curve on this uh but we lack challenges and we like to try to to fit a complex curve directly inside the the small lovely device that is the legendary os uh so we are going to work on this now and hopefully uh provide a support on that os as well so i'm going to drop the documentation

the link to the in the chat for you to peruse if you want to check it out and there's only information you need to use this app if you want to try it out and uh very willing to take questions if you guys have any yes i have a few um will i be able to export like can i um sign a message um so like can i create my own input data through the larger ledger ui or is it only possible with the existing tools with so it's uh it's the app that you sign the arbitrary message inside the nano you will have to request the signature

using a simple command from the command line so it's it's uh explaining the dark i shared in the in the chat you communicate with your legendary you ask for the signature and you see on the on the on the device what you are about to sign and you can also set up your nano so that it will accept on the flight request for signature okay i think my question was rather if i was if i'm able to export the input data so i can do deposits manually so i don't have to go for the launchpad um or is that not possible it's it's going to be possible for you to do that by generating a transaction the same way

you can generate a transaction to come online for your uh legendary to sign so there are there are commands you can use to request for you to send to send effort to uh jerome that if i i don't own this uh ian's name or let's say you want let's say you want to send one effort to us that if i got this one uh you you can do so with your with your ledger nano uh with your command line and you have the push notification on your device saying you recognize this transaction do you want to sign it well if you do that with the with the legendary x and the trump 2 app

you will have the request to do a deposit to the address 8 times 0 whatever is the deposit contract address you will see that on your ledger nano and uh it will open the interim one app and the way that the new waiter on one app work uh it will tell you explicitly that you are interacting with the you are about to interact with the deposit contract you are about to interact with the deposit function and you are about to send this as the validator key this as the jackson this is the so on and so forth so you will have to create your own transaction let's say or if you plug your own ledger nano to your metamask because some people do that and you interact directly with

with metamask uh having the request for signatures sent to your lx will also display the interaction with the depleted contract on screen all right um the next question is actually from the chats but i have the same question um will there be ways to actively stake through the ledger so the validator key has to be online is there a way to stake with the ledger on some protocols uh i i know uh on some tesla's baker do that some uh some cosmos ready to do that as well and they have developed a custom

validation app that rely on our support of the of the texas and cosmos uh blockchain so they have crafted the bespoke application uh that do the validation they do the validation work uh it's good also because you can uh you can potentially use that uh to uh enforce some uh checks about uh if you if you are going to to sign two things at the same height for example you can add this uh inside the memory of your legendary we don't have that uh currently and we don't really plan on on

developing that in the short run uh but well it's it's an open it's an open os so uh like people have been developing those apps so technically it's completely possible to write your own script and request for the nano when it's connected to do the signature on the flight i hope that in the short run people will have will be developing an app to do it more natively uh right now my preference setup uh is to uh have my visual key and hosted in my ledger nano because i'm very confident in how it was generated and i'm confident i'd be able to access it properly i'm confident with how the of the how i'm keeping my

entropy micro refresh and so on uh but i'm i i since there is no uh there is no real support on the on on the client side on the interim two client side uh on requesting the signature from the validator key uh i prefer to have it hot and not hosted in my lego nano but it's technically completely possible to do that okay um i know that you have been active in the really early stages of ethereum too and one of my questions was did you experience anything through the first test nets where you thought oh maybe ledger can fix that such as a very little coming offline

uh not really just a key creation because in the first test nets maybe the topos test net with prism we had no launch but everyone had to do its deposits by themselves and in the late test that's the launch pad launched and this kind of problem was solved so yeah i i felt personally more comfortable with interacting with the well i remember prismatic for example as many scripts that you were able to easily use to generate your key uh prepare the transaction and interact directly with the with the smart contract with the blob that they have generated put that in your metamask or your wallet and do the

deposit i felt really good about it uh like for me it was easy to use and i i felt okay with that uh the foundation deploying the launch pad was a good move in order to you know just showcase something that is a retail friendly or is a is nice and shiny and and it looks cool but at some point if you're if you're not technical you get boom go to github download the thing install this and now pick a language for your for your uh for for your recovery phrase wow uh i think that's uh suddenly there is a

gap like you know here's basic arithmetic uh boom uh let's let's switch to something uh super complicated like uh fractal or whatever like okay uh that's that's uh that's a little bit uh that's a little bit harder um i i would have preferred to uh i've left that to to clients uh but you know that's not my call uh and and not now um i think there is there is a things we we wanted providers need to uh to have to work on uh in order to offer a large a large support

for this all right one question from the chat is by phil dot if has there any uh has there been any third party audits for the f2 app on the ledger nano x uh no there has not been for us it's uh no third party but there is a an internal uh audit at our security team the dungeon team of uh of ledger so the team that tests other people's hardware wallets a team that tested the the hsm that we use and so on that do affiliate pen testing and so on but from from a purely uh technical uh

point of view it's about supporting a a cryptographic curve and it irritates the the security of the the os itself on top of this so the the attack surface is uh is quite limited as long as we can prove uh that the the curve is correctly represented there is no real thing to be worried about i mean if you deposit it yourself we have to trust it right well i i i mean the the wiz world key uh nobody has tested the result key as far as i'm aware

we are all in the same boat yeah we will do that in two years [Music] one question by michael is if i use the same seed phrase in ethereum 2 deposit cli as for the ledger setup will the resulting public keys be the same in other words can i use the ledger service from now on for key management so um well i i cannot guarantee that so uh because i i don't remember uh exactly which pass the the the foundation has chosen in the deposit

command line interface uh i would love to uh to to verify that and i'll answer on twitter to make sure i don't give you a false false information and one thing i should mention is that um if you want to do everything in the command line interface and you have uh generated your entropy on your lender nano you've written down your 24 words and now you select the the option uh recovery a phrase on the command interface that will make you input your 24 words on your computer which we strongly advise against because if your computer is compromised you may

compromise your your 24 words by doing so so the only place you should ever put your 24 words is inside the header i want it and that's that's that's how we that's our security model so i i wouldn't i wouldn't recommend doing so but for the sake of completion uh i'll i'll check out uh how is the the best derivative and tell you if that's gonna be uh compatible okay last question from my side with the ledger you i ever tried to compete with the launch pad or not really compete but offer an alternative so right now the launch pad is kind of a single point of failure if it's down nobody's able to deposit

what we could apply that kind of supports that feature to the opposite um so it's uh well so uh we have we have a two spectrum on the spectrum of the the crypto user at ledger we have uh a lot of clients that are super tech sally and super crypto savvy and on the and on the other end uh we have uh lots of uh uh entry-level people uh from their awareness of crypto that bought a ledger to save you their crypto and they are doing stuff on ledger live buying crypto swapping crypto and managing their portfolio and that's it so for us it's a bit complicated to find

the right balance because we know that we open the thing uh we open a new app and we let people develop around it and so that's that's great and we know that many people are using their ledger directly when they go on uni swap when they go on idex when they go or whatever uh but for those the support in the ledger live is probably going to be overkill and for the the less crypto savvy people running a node and participating uh to the staking is where the whole ethereum community should aim but it's kind of complicated for us to push our our our uh our clients towards this so i think uh adding an alternative to

the launch pad would probably be uh you can interact with the deposit contract directly from ledger live so that would mean that uh you know the the the average joe is going to uh to do a staking uh so we we would rather have uh a sticking as a service provider that is integrated with us and and provide this alternative rather than doing it yourself because we don't want to have the situation where people contact me at this report saying like hey i just deposited certified for what do i do now like oh man no well let's install a lighthouse node and an interim one node and be

connected 60 of the time so a very good situation for us would be i think to have an alternative to the launchpad process inside the launchpad to not download the common interface but to connect your legendary and have the things being done i think that's that would be the the the easiest way to go and the safest way to go in my opinion awesome thank you for answering all the questions we're interested to develop that so we reach out we will have are there any other questions in the chat maybe i think i covered all of them if not yeah i'll pass it over to fizz hey thank you jerome uh i'm excited to

be able to use uh ledger on the launch pad um i know one thing that uh we had talked about launchpad being a single point of failure and we discussed it in the chat and we know that the launchpad is also deployed on ipfs so um if for some weird reason the canonical version of launchpad goes down you could still connect through ipfs and if you're using a ledger you could still use the ledger through metamask on ipfs um so no real worries about about anything there um thank you jerome we appreciate your time i'm going to move on to the kind of next thing that is still ledger related but we haven't really made it public because

we've been internally discussing it um the east acre team is going to offer a raffle for a ledger nano x that will ship to anyone anywhere and so as a little background to this to be eligible for to win this ledger nano x um first you'll want to get the poe app uh for this call and for people who are new to poep it is the proof of attendance protocol token um they're kind of like uh internet stickers for adults and so you can collect these po apps and you'll have your poep wallet and and it's it's really neat we kind of have one for every event we do

and so to be eligible to participate in the raffle for this ledger nano x you'll need to have any poe app since the topaz test net which has been several months ago any of those poeps will allow you to be eligible for the raffle to participate you'll go to p-o-a-p dot fun and that is a raffle site hosted by poep and when you get there you'll see a raffle for the e2 stakers ledger wallet raffle um and from there you will uh activate your wallet and enter the raffle will hold the drawing uh i think it's gonna be in a about 18

hours from this call so even if you're watching this call late if you hear about this on reddit i encourage you to share it on twitter give everyone who might be interested a chance to check up on this call when it's posted and to participate in the raffle um it'll be a fun time to test this raffle toy in addition so there's another poep has a lot of neat products there's another product that we haven't talked about a lot but i'd like to tell you about real quick it's poep.gallery and if you look at gallery you'll be able to see um the poet from today's call displayed there along with

a really neat um searchable um searchable page that was developed by one of our east acres buddha and his friend stefan and they did a great job with it uh so um did i get everything right about the raffle um people can show in the raffle any time between now and tomorrow morning in the us so in the next 20 hours um you don't need to be online uh to see the the actual raffle but because the winner is picked based on the gas usage of it of the vlog after the cut off time it would be nice if

you're online i expect to be online on the discord to see how it goes we may do something around this idea for the history design contest so it makes sense for you to check out um the pop boat and ruffle thing um the ledger nano x seems to be the hardware wallet to get so so the award is nice um if there's a demand for second prices we may toss some pins on it so so uh even if you don't win the um the main price it makes sense to participate if you have any questions you can reach out on our discord or anywhere else every every poke has counts as one

ticket right yes that has been said like that on purpose so the more loyal you are to the age taker community the more your voting power is um i have like a hundred tickets because i run pow-up but i guess that if i win uh we will keep the price either for the second uh random peak or for a a raffle next time and there's no the winner will just sign a trans sign a message right no yeah you don't need to have any gas or anything um it doesn't matter if your pull-ups are on maintenance or the next die or split apart in both um and it should be as straightforward as it can be

you get on the website you click on showing um you sign a message with metamask or your wallet of preference and that's it all right right on so what will what will return is the address of an uh of a co-app holder and then we'll need to establish contact with whoever holds that address is that right um yeah i see that like uh 50 pop-ups already have joined oh great uh yeah if you refresh a website it shows oh there are only 40 there are only 45 people in the call how do they know oh yeah because i said co-ops not people maybe someone with many

and so as as a reminder uh we're only so far we've this is the only announcement we've just made this public um and the the um raffle ends in about 20 hours so i'd appreciate if you well why would you do that why would you tell all of your friends because then they're just competition but it's a great opportunity i hope you will participate with us okay from there we want to i think michael is going to introduce our round table yes okay so today we're going to be doing something a little different where we've asked a handful of brave community members to share their experiences

when using the launch pad process and becoming a validator we're doing this in an open round table discussion so we can learn as a group and help each other be more successful when solo staking so sort of to open that up i'd like to start with kevin i believe he had a question on double deposits yeah well thanks first of all for uh opening this discussion up and uh jerome thank you for all the details on the ledger stuff appreciate that but um this might be a question that i think is going to touch on a lot of people's uh uh concerns and it happened to me after a

couple of test nets i think it was thinking uh prior to that uh deposit a contract the launch pad in general was a very smooth process but i did end up i did end up submitting the same deposit data for a validator multiple times and i guess the question is an open one like what's the consequence of that for someone who might find themselves refreshing a launch page and going through and depositing or dropping the deposit json in the ui again did that happen on the mainnet if it happens on me then yeah i think that was a launchpad bug but they fixed it but if it happens again um yeah the you can only stake so the rewards are based on the effective

balance and you can only have 32 as a maximum so if you have 64 deposited you will only use half of it to stick actively the other 32 will kind of be irrelevant and you kind of not really lost it because you'll be able to withdraw it but yeah they have no use does it make sense yeah absolutely um and the clarity around what the additional deposits actually represent uh uh was helpful to because i think a lot of us are thinking about the consequences of putting any amount of significant value in our validators among all the other things like security and all that

if we get to the uh the finish line so to speak and we start launching name that and then have a situation where additional assets are locked up in some bizarre way uh yeah i was just curious about those consequences so i'm glad to hear that the uh there was at least a bug identified related to that and it was fixed so i appreciate you guys doing that i mean in the early stages of the ethereum two tests that's um the effective balance actually dropped really fast so if you were not online um asap after you deposited um it didn't drop instantly but very fast and the idea was to have some kind of insurance pattern so instead of depositing 32 if your deposit 30 32.1 if so if you lose or miss a few at the

stations you don't instantly drop your effect if your effective balance doesn't drop instantly but yeah that was changed luckily and now we don't have to worry about that and everyone is depositing only 32-week instead well the penalties are a quarter of what they were too so you'll have even more time before your effective balance gets reduced yeah back in the days it was way harder to be a validator kevin actually did you have you tried to or did you deposit on the main net you

don't really have to answer but i'm actually curious about the part where you where it asks you to the to sync your ethereum onenote which is one of my main criticisms about the launchpad because it lets you to do the deposit but the deposit process itself is really fast but sinking the main net can take up to a day so technically speaking your deposit can get through and you still are sinking your eth one maintenance note and you will lose your eve because um the node is not synced yet have you had that experience or is it just me uh i i haven't had my that experience in uh in past test nets and i plan on

making those experiences mirror my mainnet experience so i'm gonna have everything synced at genesis as best as i can yeah right now go ahead it would be interesting if they set it up so any transactions you make through the launch pad are forced to go through your own local eth1 node and that would prevent that situation and also if it was connecting to your local leaf one node it could check and make sure you're not doing a double deposit kind of messes up the user experience a little bit but also i think it would be safer the ui would have to be explicit about

asking that question relative to are you using your own infrastructure or using another like are you you know using computer or something else yeah that's true too i'm actually going through the launch pad right now because actually it changed a lot because um on the previous test net there were a few criticisms the community had and they fixed it which is really nice um but yeah right now it's also asking you to to sync with the ethereum two nodes first before you do the deposit but

right now there is none of them or maybe or wait taco is available i think ben is listening he will be smiling when i say tango uh yeah that is kind of a user experience bad use experience but besides that what else would you guys have assisted as a suggestion for the launchpad team maybe i'll just uh i'll add one more comment before i pass along to somebody else but um in my experience throughout the four tests uh largely a good experience and uh that includes uh good experiences around not just to test out themselves but the number of deposits i've personally done in those experiences so anywhere ranging between a couple to a couple dozen largely good and

i just want to say thanks to everyone working really hard to work work through these things and get it going yeah compared to how i don't know when ethereum launched and to compare it compared to ethereum two right now it's a completely different word well um i think logan had also a few stuff to mention sure yeah thanks guys for the invite um so so my my linux experience is decent and first of all i mean i wouldn't have done any of this if it wasn't for the seastaker community when i first started looking at the staking just came across the reddit

watch the intro youtube video and the first thing i saw was the first thing i noticed was everybody on this call wasn't like 18 and under it was all like grown men with responsibilities in life and that resonated with me so the first thing was just a a genuine um you know visual like you know cool and then this ethos thing that that super fizz has led with has been really welcoming so so all that technical or all that non-technical kind of brought me into it and then you know the encouragement to just run on on the dasha and so um so doing that was great but and this isn't a negative at all but what i was gonna say is but i actually went through by doing that you know i went through summer's guide and so i had all that stuff set up so by the time i got to the

launch pad um you know i basically just skipped through you know the the which client you're gonna are you gonna use and so so what i guess if i started with the launch pad instead of starting with these tertiary guides i might have chosen differently right i might have chosen prism or tekku whatever i didn't though i started with the most popular guy you know i googled it and found the most popular guide and that drove me the lighthouse so um you know there's a there's a i think about the launch pad in kind of two ways one is people who start there and i don't and i can't speak to what that experience might be like but i think that would be a really valuable experience to get people who start at the launch pad and see where that takes them doing the

installations themselves so my my route is the one i think is probably the more common one but it's totally just a guess which is you kind of came across the staking community got some support used a guide and that guide is going to take you down one particular path um and so so you know like i'm terrified at this point to try another client because i have no reps at this point in the game so like i'm a lighthouse guy not because i have anything any experience with any of the other ones um sony i wanted to make sure i framed that to my perspective with launchpad was really just about the deposit had nothing to do with any of the pre-setup in in running a node and and running a client you know a beacon node and a client and all that was sort of

predetermined by the fact that i came to the launch pad already with a setup from a particular guy so i think it's an important distinction when you talk about who are the people coming to the launch pad um what is their their entrance ramp so i just need to get through all the buttons and then um so that's the first thing i wanted to share was was you know i don't know how how or if anything would change in the launch pad which i think is the focus of this call given that but i think that perspective is important though i can't put my finger on exactly what um i do like a lot in the launch pad there were options i'm just saying i didn't care because i had a different perspective um so then then when i got to the actual part of the deposit you know certainly

because it had run test now which is something that occur continuously i continuously like about the east acre community and the discord and probably on reddit too which is just an encouragement to run test net before you go i mean everybody sort of says that hey hey spin up my test nuts that just gives you the comfort level when you drag that json file um but then i did run into uh ledger issues so so i i'm not a big ledger guy i just recently started really taking cold storage seriously got a ledger nano x and so i was going to do my deposit i just i could not get it to work and i and i used firefox i used brave i used firefox and it was just failing and it was failing to make a a function call or something to my ledger my

the issue i had was my ledger actually never asked for confirmation jerome just left yeah no i know yeah it's fine you can watch this later if you don't cut me out of it um but so the issue was i was on metamask and i hit boom and then it says hey i'm going to send the deposit into my ledger just never triggered you know and i had the contract thing set up i've used uniswap with it before um it just never triggered and then i i rebooted same thing then i tried i went to the east acre community on discord someone said hey i used brave successfully i tried brave it didn't work at that point i was just done so i just you know a couple other people in in the discord had said as well that they had the same issue they just ended

up going to metamask and and doing it um so i just i gave in and did that but if i were to do it again i think it'd be interesting to try to work through that um the the talk of of managing your keys back to sort of my guide and my my perspective and my technical ability um you know i didn't quite i don't quite follow the advantages of why you want to use the ledger i mean i mean i get it at a high level but like i'm so used now to using the deposit cli that uh that's what i'm gonna keep using because i'm comfortable with it so um is there a way you know i would use the ledger one if there was a way to test it and i don't know if that's possible i don't know how i you know how i

have you know the the test net money on my ledger anyway so those are those kind of two big takeaways i think really understanding the perspective of where someone comes might streamline the launch pad a bit um and um and then i did have some issues using ledger nanox so it wasn't i'm not sure if it's a ledger issue or if it's a launchpad issue if it doesn't work yeah right right my sense was it was a launchpad issue only because i've had success with the uniswap um in in and so my my my gut whatever that's worth was that there was something going on someone actually in in discord had mentioned even though i was using firefox and brave um

the nuts and bolts of interacting with it are different than chrome and so to try chrome but again other people had confirmed they successfully did it with brave um on this chat today transistor he said he did with microsoft edge so um you know so i don't know i mean it could be lots of things i'm not blaming anything but but but when i noted there was a problem other people had also had that problem so it wasn't just me even if there's only two people so there's something going on there with the with it with support whether it's my mac in the browser and the metamask extension or you know my firmware was up to date in the ledger but anyway there's something there that that other people i'm sure going to run into so how did you solve edition oh i moved to metamask it just went oh

okay okay that was a hot wallet yeah just just pressed on with something and it didn't work because that's that's what i had used for for the test nets sink in and nadasha i'd use metamask i did not use in the ledger well nice thank you that was yeah you're welcome just just real quick i'm out of curiosity because i think you're outlining a really good perspective saying that there's sort of our two camps of onboarding right they're they're sort of an audience that their first exposure to uh you know being a solar staker is the launch pad and there are some that are coming from entering within a community or being introduced to a guide first so you know with what you shared knowing

that you were sort of inundated with the community first and read up on the guides and then you went to the launch pad did you feel that by going that route when you got to the launch pad there were any like red flags or something that you didn't understand did you feel like that was a good sort of on-ramp to that launch pad or do you yeah yeah 100 100 no no i definitely i enjoyed the launchpad experience a lot i mean i think it's great it's obvious it's needed um you know when it comes to when it comes to to to actually getting in the process the launchpad's huge i mean these checklists even the first 10 i didn't even mind a couple of times when i had to like restart the launch pad having to re-go through the 10 in

the beginning like next night it didn't bother me lick like i was like oh this is good i want that kind of safety and control um and then when they give me the options to pick the clients again i like the navigation the four you know buttons and you could pick and read um you know and i read through everything it's just i remember being like none of these are going to change what i'm going to do but the experience was very very positive um over yeah overall i mean uh so so i'm not sure if that answers your question i i think it's laid out really it's laid out really well and i could see um if i was using it first i could see oh good these are my options and then kind of going down some rabbit holes and i could see that being very

effective for for anybody awesome now just some general stuff i think now that you mentioned the the ordering of the clients like the e1 and df2 clients i think the launchpad has a big influence on which clients people can use maybe if they don't know them so maybe they can kind of reorder the clients based on how many people have clicked on a specific client so if nobody has a bazel um if one note maybe it can be placed as the first client maybe it attracts more people i don't know

just my opinion i think jess and also wanted to say something hey um so my question is more about corporate use and um doing multiple validators and setting up multiple keys um and i just wanted to ask how good the support is for that for if you want to generate 100 keys and run 100 validators or whatever it is uh like can you do it all in launchpad or will you need to resort to um you know linux or something um for what what was the last test net zinken or spadina thinking all of them

doesn't matter i i did um 500 keys through the launch pad on one of the test nets and it was time consuming because obviously you have to submit every transaction manually but it worked fine so is there anything that's going to make it not time consuming because you know some corporates will hold a lot of eth and we'll want to run a lot of validators and if you have to like you know do it manually for each transaction it's going to take a while and that's a good use of automation yeah um you can definitely use ethdu from a testing will be the most efficient way i know that they can automate it

right it's less you friendly though for us mere mortals uh we encourage you not i'm not sure if ben is here but maybe he knows how because he works with taekwondo who kind of focuses on cooperates when do you want to say something he just responded in the chat um yeah sure uh so all of the clients took out recently so teku prison lighthouse everybody took out the ability to do batch deposits because none of our tools were audited and um we we don't want to get sued so but on the other hand if you have to do

repeatedly manually there's a higher chance of errors right yeah but that's not the client depth problem but but uh e2 has already been mentioned that has been audited and i can vouch for it it's good stuff um stake dot fish have recently put out a contract um which aggregates deposits um for comment it's open source um so you can you can search out it was in my last what's new neath too so uh you can look at that um and other tools are emerging but you want to be super cautious about using any third party tool do a lot of due diligence thank you snake fish is saying they got the

contract audited in the comments we do but oh nice i didn't know that i think ben's answer was the best answer we could have gotten to that question was there anyone else who wanted to say something in general suggestions about the launchpad or general criticism i know when i was doing my deposits halfway through i did you know half from one address half from another so halfway through i had to change uh which address i was using on my ledger through metamask and i messed up somehow i popped a

transaction but that address didn't have any more ethernet so i had to reject the transaction and then change my address and when i tried to redo it uh the retry transaction button didn't seem to do anything you just click it and nothing would happen it wouldn't pop a metamask window so i had to refresh the page and then at that point i lost all the you know valid deposit or whatever it said so i needed to manually count down and like double check the public key to figure out you know which public key i should be depositing to so that was a little bit stressful but i don't know maybe it was a bug on my

end i'm not sure but other than that uh worked well it was i felt safe using it it was a good good experience i'm actually curious how many people had problems some using ledger or any i don't know if has anyone tried with trezzler or any other hardware wallet or are there any windows users did everyone gave up on windows yet i i did my deposits for my windows machine okay well we had so many windows users in the testnets but uh i think the community that you sticker community kind of convinced everyone to use linux this kind of shield

linux really has so that's definitely the best choice definitely the best choice yeah i was like the the go ahead in my defense mood i didn't know that i was shilling linux i just thought everyone used it so it wasn't like purposeful i just thought everyone was you know on the same thing yeah like ethereum 2 or the tesla themselves was the reason for me to switch to linux because before that my main i'm only on windows and on mac os and just for the ethereum two clients i switched to linux i think many people had have the vision

that linux is just command line but it's actually the same or very similar to mac os so if there are people who are not on linux sets yet switch now you still have a few days left yeah that's from my sides i think i will head over to face yeah actually um i had spoken with michael and i think uh michael is michael geesson is on tap to do follow-up wrap up right yep yep sure so just uh before we kind of wrap this call up uh no one else has anything to share or or anything like that to comment on

we did need to pump the workshop i forgot about that did you do that yeah so uh real quick just as a reminder uh before we get into the workshop um the raffle for the ledger is that co-op dot fun the direct link is po-op dot fun slash 12. all you have to do is connect your wallet and any pull-ups that you have so if you have one or many the volume of co-ops is the amount of votes that you'll get for this raffle if you do not have any co-op please feel free to join the po-op discord or excuse me well you can join the pull-up discord you can also join the e-staker discord at invite

dot gg slash east staker we have a po-op channel and there is a pinned message with instructions on how to obtain uh your first pull-up um that'll get you at least one vote uh for this raffle if you don't have one that pulls us uh and second by the way sorry to interrupt that pull up the my first pull-up one's not uh included as a ticket oh yeah you're right i'm sorry sorry good call which is probably a good thing for civil resistance yep good call good call uh regardless though that you can still get help uh from these communities at those discords so feel free to join either way um you know with the spirit of this call

specifically in the round table and sort of having these open discussions about whether they be grievances grievances or frustrations about the process or things that were done really well or things that may have helped you that is sort of the soul of the east acre community we try to do the best we can to promote events and push content to help the solo staking community one of those things specifically is the validator workshop that the east acre community is hosting on saturday november 21st at oof is it one let me look that up real quick yes so that is at 1 pm utc time

all of this can be found at our new e-staker home at eathstaker.cc if you go to that url you'll see all the applicable details for the validator workshop including the technical prerequisites needed in order to get you started making sure that you have a clean computer set up with and how to install operating systems and all necessary prerequisite information is on there in addition to the sign up link again that is uh saturday november 21st for that event i do want to thank uh jerome for speaking with us today i think it was

fantastic to get ledger in here and speak more on uh cold storage specifically i think sometimes it can be a uh a lesser known thing within the crypto market we're so focused on being a validator that sometimes we forget about keeping things safe and secure and cold storage is always a great solution for that so thank you jerome again for that and i think we're good here thanks everyone from the east acre community and we'll see everyone again hi everyone thanks everyone for coming out how many times that's