Eric Jackson on spotting beaten-down assets with AI models

Transcript

And my 15-year view for Bitcoin is like it's going to like 50 million is is sort of like where I think Bitcoin is going to be in in 15 years. ETH, I think, is going to be at like something like 1.5 million in 15 years. What's up everybody? It's LGD set here and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show that got told a few weeks ago we were heading to 70K, but absolutely refused to believe it. My bad. Today is May 28th, 2026. We are recording on May 27th. Listen, we all have that friend who is very early to stuff. so early that when they first mention something to you, it barely makes sense. A thesis that is so unhinged and out of the current narrative that you think they're totally off their rocker and yet somehow they're often right. In today's episode,

we sit down with Eric Jackson, founder of EMJ Capital and the mastermind behind some of the most legendary 100x trades in tech and crypto to tell us how he knew the market would crash this week and what he's watching next. Today's episode is brought to you by Cape, the privacy first mobile carrier, Nexo, earn interest, borrow and trade crypto, and KI where your takes finally pay out. Eric, welcome to the show, man. >> Hey, LG. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me. >> I didn't mean that you're off your rocker, okay? I just meant I I'm just trying to pinpoint who you are for people in their life when they have that guy who comes along who's like, "Hey, listen. You got to get into whatever this niche thing is." You know, and then and then a year later you're like, "I should have listened to that dude."

>> I I get called much worse than that every day on Twitter. So, it's >> You know what's funny is I was looking and I was telling you while we were chatting, too, is I was looking at your last couple appearances uh with Kyle. And what's funny is it's how quickly things that you mentioned in past episodes become big narratives, right? And something like iron is a really good example. You know, the the company that went from Bitcoin mining to basically making data centers. And when you came out in August, we didn't really have much knowledge of even what that was. And that has been one of the big stories, at least the crypto AI kind of narrative. Uh and they're having a fantastic week this week as well, you know. So if that's somewhere where you invested your money, uh you've done well since then, too. So I think what I

really want to talk to you about today is kind of what I said in the intro. Um but first you know we are crypto show I want to ask you this week three days ago you tweeted that your model at EMJ flipped defensive and then I think we went from like 77K now this morning to 72. Tell me more about that model man. What's the secret sauce? Well, I mean, I can't give you every part of the secret sauce, but needless to say, like we we've been working on um uh building crypto models like we started at EMJ Capital in 2021, believe it or not, working this was like pre-Chat GPT trying to develop AI and machine

learning models. And even back then, so I guess what what that's like 5 years ago, we found that the models we started building them for stocks because obviously that's what that's what I focus on at EMJ. But um we found pretty early on that we were getting better models, better predictive power, you know, uh in the models for crypto than for stocks. And I think the reason why is just there's just a ton more information that's saved on the blockchain, right? So it just uh if you got more features to work with, more variables to throw into like the blender and make this sort of mo model um you know there's more opportunities to be

right our that being said we have especially in the last two years probably looked at like over 2,000 potential features or variables to build crypto models with and it's really tough and it's really difficult and I I would say like even this year like when we first had that pullback um obviously there was the pullback in October last fall in crypto um and which was interesting from a bunch of perspectives cuz crypto led that crash. There was a good month lag between when crypto started to dump in October and I think it kicked off because of some stable coin mispricing issues that Binance had a month. It was a month. It took a month

before names like iron and cipher and then the you know regular Apple and and Nvidia started to dump in the stock market. So crypto led that crash down. Then it sort of stabilized in December. Then there was another sort of mini crash you remember that took us down to like 60 or 62k um at right at the end of January in February. And even then like our models didn't catch that kind of uh drop. And so we've been working like mad scientists trying to get a better better and better models. And so, uh, one of the keys to answer your question in sort of like know now knowing like that, you know, having this sort of sense that that crypto was like about to get weaker recently is uh, we spent a lot of time

um, there's all kinds of underlying reasons that, you know, Ether might move up one day, you know, and maybe that's different from from Bitcoin, but like in general, like for all crypto, you know, the key thing is like what's going on in the macro environment. So much of crypto is sort of like tied to macro and rates and the war in Iran and so like are we in an are we in a bare market now where where you know conditions are financial conditions are getting tighter and therefore you know crypto might go down or they're loosening and crypto might go up. So, uh, basically if you boil it down, like we have a model now that we've just recently developed over the last couple of months that sort of only focuses on, hey, are we in a bare market? are we in a sort of a mixed

mixed kind of whole you know treadwater market or are we in a bull market and we just watch that like a hawk and once it starts to like and it doesn't flip overnight usually usually like it takes sort of days for you to transition from like a you know a bull market into like and then one day you you wake up and you check the numbers on the screen and it's like oh no actually we're now we've transitioned into this kind of mixed choppy market and then another couple of weeks weeks go by and like oh no now we're we're uh formerly in a bare market. So that's what happened just the other day. So uh I would say like the the bull market we were in sort of like a good bull crypto market for most of uh

March and uh beginning of April and we got the first signal that we were transitioning from that you know green light bull market into a chopped or mixed mixed market. uh I think it was on May 11th according to this model and so and and you could see like we were starting to tick down in the price of Bitcoin but then just a couple of days ago or when I I don't have the date in front of me but 26 or 27 like we got the we got the message that morning that we were you know now entered this sort of bare market uh and so in each step along the way we we take actions in our portfolio both both at EMJ Capital but I have this other company called EMJX which is a which which is a like a it's

in the process of doing a reverse merger with a company called SRXH on the New York Stock Exchange and we're going to be uh once it closes hopefully in the next few weeks we'll be the first like multi-asset uh we call it a Gen 2 crypto treasury. So we're going to have not just Bitcoin but Bitcoin, Ethereum, other stocks, other cryptos and and we're hedging all along the way. So as you move from like a bull market to a choppy market to a bare market like obviously you're taking you we take off risk. We don't hold you know Bitcoin all the time like like some of the other treasuries do where they just sort of like they they say like Michael Sailor says hey you know Bitcoin

to the moon and I'm you know every new Bitcoin I add I'm never selling and you know all this kind of stuff. No, like I guess what we've all seen in these last in the last year is just, you know, there's still a lot of volatility. And if if the goal is to just make money, then I think you can't be wedded to like always holding crypto all the time or or if if you are going to have that philosophy, you're just going to have to deal with the volatility. And most people don't don't like the volatility. So, we watch the signals every day. um you know, we got this sort of message that hey um we're moving into this bare market. Typically, you know, that means that for like say the next 30 days, you're going to be you know, you're

probably going to see the price of Bitcoin go lower. And that's what I said in in my tweets. Um and but I don't I don't have like a fine tooth comb. I can't say when it'll, you know, when we'll, you know, I didn't know it was going to be a day later that the you know, we're going to have this like drop from 77K to 72K. And I don't know like where the bottom is going to be exactly. And it doesn't mean like it has to take 30 days for us to hit hit the bottom. We might just see some puke out down to some level and then it stabilizes and then all of a sudden we check the model again and it says oh no we're back into a choppy market. So but but that's sort of like I don't know that that's that's

what it built. That's what we're watching. I've learned like you got to you know if if you're going to have something of value um you've got to obviously stick your neck out uh before the fact and kind of make some of these predictions. So, you know, that that was that's the intent of like just tweeting it out and making it known to people. >> We are at a very crucial point in time right now. AI stocks have ripped. They're going to keep ripping. Our analysts on the AI side are up like literally 100% or more on quite a few calls. And crypto is about to boom again, or at least it feels that way. If you want all the insight on what we're buying, what our analysts are doing, what's on their watch list, all of that is in Milkroad Pro. So, join at the link

below. Okay. So this this is really interesting because I feel like most people come on the show they you know the general investment advice is just like listen you like these assets hold them for a long time eventually Bitcoin is going to go to 150k 250k a million whatever and just stack in this chop but you this is this is a rare take as well that you're you have a far more dynamic model that kind of is more almost week to week or monthtomonth based on these indicators that you guys have and I like that. I think that, you know, I'm a bit more of a den. So, to me, that's more interesting where I'm like, listen, if we're sure, you stack, I have 100% confidence that Bitcoin will eventually reach these heights, but I'm like, while we're chopping in the bare market, what can I do? You know, like other than

stare at my coins or go learn all the other AI stocks and stuff, which we have a lot of great channels for that as well, but if you want to stick to crypto, what else can you do besides just just get upset when we bleed back out after a rally? And it sounds like you guys kind of found the solution there with your model that's like, well, there are some moves you can make maybe every month or every couple of months based on what you're getting, right? So, I like that. >> I agree. I mean, I mean, I would say I've come to that point of view through, you know, a lot of scars on my back, you know, from from because I that that wasn't my default like I I guess I am a more of a default DG, not just for for crypto, but for like stocks in general.

And gener I mean I I always have been attracted to like these smaller midcap tech stocks like Carvana and Openoor and Iron and Cipher and I I mean I love them all. Like I like I love all my children, but let's face it, like if we you know, Iron's been great. And you're right, LG, like they've had a great week, but like uh I wasn't feeling so hot on Iron like when I watched it go from like 77 bucks like last November down to I think it got down to like 32 or something like at the low point a couple months destroyed >> in like two two months, you know, like some days some sometimes these names like it's like 10 days, you know, you

like give back 80% of your gains that you know, maybe you've accumulated over a year in 10 days. So I I I don't I think honestly like all of us, you know, we've gone through those kinds of experiences and we feel pretty stupid when it happens and then we're always like, man, I wish if I if I had just taken profit, you know, like at the peak, you know, and then gotten back in right at the bottom, like, oh man, like I you know, how much money would I have made then and stuff, but it's it's tough like that's why like it's it's very difficult. So uh to bring it to like AI, I mean, like that's the you know, that's why in 2021 I got into AI models. like there's got to be a better way. Like the machine has to be smarter than you know

the human and kind of figuring this out. Um and we're getting we're getting there, but you know it's uh you know it's not like a magic wand. It doesn't happen overnight. There's still a lot of like you got to do a lot of work you know to get there. But hopefully we're I'm getting closer and closer to um you know being better at sort of picking my tops and picking >> Well, I mean Eric the industry is definitely moving that way, right? because Rob yesterday Robin Hood rolled out aic trading right that will trade and who knows what the results will be right that's going to look an interest an interesting time to launch it when stocks are alltime highs uh but but definitely uh an interesting product is that something you feel like you know you've been around the you know been around the here like been around finance

for a very long time is that something you feel like people have actually appetite for and you think that that's something that retail would use that institutions would use and and what does that look like in terms of adoption of just just being like, "Okay, here's my here's my, you know, 100 grand. I'm interested in these three things. Go and trade them for me." >> I think so. I I the more and more like I've I've you know dove down the rabbit hole the the last year uh into AI and crypto and agentic AI and stuff the more I feel like uh wow you know like I I am a true DGEN in the sense that I think I think I've said on the show before with Kyle that you know like my 15-year view for Bitcoin is like it's going to like

50 million is is sort of like where I think Bitcoin is going to be in in 15 years. ETH I think is going to be at like something like one and a half million in 15 years and that but it's not going to be a straight line and uh so you know to have that view like you got to be obviously pretty bullish and and one of the reasons why I'm super bullish on crypto in general and and for Bitcoin and Ethereum is is a is basically going to be the adoption of Agentic AI which which basically means um we're going to rely more and more on AI to do stuff for us and we're just going to place our trust in it. So, it's going to be everything from using using a Aentic AI to book our Expedia airline tickets to, you know, there and why not,

you know, run our Robin Hood accounts or whatever, you know, and trade stocks. I think, you know, it's not going to happen overnight, but like the more people dip their toes in the in the water and and experience it and like it and have a positive experience, I think there's so much where we want we just want to like offload stuff, but we still want the feel of personalization. And I think that's you you do get that like and and I think it's going to obviously just get even, you know, better and more magical in the next year or two. Uh so that you feel like this this this person who's like your personal assistant, it knows you better than anybody else, you know, and and therefore, you know, you can say, "Hey, well, I like this kind of stock. I like that kind of stuff, but I

don't like this. I don't like that." Everybody likes to feel like they have control of, you know, and they want it personalized. They want their pizza personalized just, you know, the hot honey and the extra spicy or whatever, however they like it. And so I think that they get that from the agentic AI. So I think that there will be this sort of uh trust, but you know, I'm sure there will be, you know, screw-ups along the way and this, you know, the computer, you know, lost me, you know, 20% you this month and like isn't this a big scandal? We got to put safeguards in and you know Vlad will have to go on TV and do a Maya Kulpa and I'm sure we'll have things like that. But I mean like over the long over the you know 5 years from now though like all that stuff will

get forgotten about and we'll be in a much different place than we are today. I think >> I think you have set the record for the largest number prediction for Bitcoin and ETH ever on the show. >> Right. >> In a timeline you have a it's a reasonable timeline. We've heard like 250k by within the next 6 months as well, which is seems a little less realistic. But you said 1 and a half million ETH and 15 million Bitcoin. I love that. That's that's I honestly didn't expect you to say anything like that today. >> Five 50 not one five for >> Oh, 50. >> Yeah. Come on. >> I didn't think you were going to say that, Eric. So, >> okay. Well, don't don't trade too much then, man. Make sure you're accumulating. Make sure you're still accumulating over time, man, with your uh you know, with your with your u with

your system at EMJ. that that tells you when you're bullish or bearish. Make sure you're still holding a lot over time, man. Because if that's that's going to happen, you make sure you don't want to miss that train. >> I want to ask you, Eric, you know, so you've kind of mentioned a few different uh I guess you're calling them kind of smaller cap stocks, right? >> How do you and and they're quite diverse, you know, and I think that that's what's interesting. We're going to divert a little bit from crypto right now. Uh but feel free to kind of incorporate this with crypto. You know, you're talking about Next Door, you're talking about iron, which which or Iron, uh, which is cryptoreated. You've mentioned you've mentioned a few more as well. How do you find these? You get a I mean, you do get a spidey sense, uh,

after a while of, um, knowing a down and out company that, you know, you think is being given up on. I mean the best opportunities are when the consensus is this thing is like you know it's left for debt lit literally and so Carvana was like that everybody thought that this company was going to file for bankruptcy uh because they had so much debt they'd gone from they dropped from 400 bucks in 2021 to $3.50 in 20 in in December 2022. Uh they had like six billion in debt. uh interest rates were jacked up uh postcoid now uh because of inflation. So who was going to be able to afford a car lease and all this kind

of stuff. So the the the it was last rights for Carbana. And yet like when I started to talk to people actually who worked at the company um you got a very different perspective and and there was a confidence they were buying a lot of stock. the insiders were and I just know from you like nobody like there was one guy who was the chief product officer at Carbana who in November of 2022 um like a month before it hit its all-time low that he bought um three or three and a half million bucks worth of of his own stock out of his own pocket.

And like no, like I'm sure he was wealthy, but but you know, he he wasn't as wealthy as the founder, you know, whose dad was wealthy and who had like I don't know. I don't know exactly what he was worth, but if somebody super wealthy like buys $10 million of of their own stock. I mean, that doesn't even register these days. But if there's like a guy who's like the chief product officer who's like parts with like three half million. I mean, I just know from my own experience with my own wife, like if I had to like go to her and sit around the dinner table and convince her like we got to take some of this after tax money that's just like sitting in an account here and pile it into this stock that every probably all of her

girlfriends are telling her is about to go bankrupt. Oh, are you are you okay? Like, are you going to be okay? Because I keep hearing that the your your husband's company is just like swirling around the toilet bowl. Uh, and and like trying to convince her like, "No, this like I really, you know, it's really a great investment and it's going to 100x over the next 3 years." I mean, that's going to be a tough conversation. And so, that the fact that he had that and he was successful in convincing her to do that. Nobody just like starts a party and like you know in the back in their backyard and lights like three and a half million bucks on on fire. Uh like there has to be like a you know more than just you know sort of silly confidence but like a deep a deep

confidence that that you're going to come back. So there you know you look for certain signals like insider buying. You look for signs that you know customers actually like the product that there's actually growth underlying growth in the product. Um and so uh those kinds of and but but but nobody's paying attention to it. That I mean that's also a great sign because then like it's not like they're not talking about it on CNBC halftime report every day like they are Nvidia or whatever you know Microsoft. It's just it's sort of flying under the radar because then then and and and so and and and hopefully there are some like near-term catalysts in the next year or two like you know I don't know there might be some like big new customer announcement that they have or you know inclusion and you know

they're going to pay off their debt and then you know that they'll get repriced by you know a different metric than they used to get priced at. So there's there's all these kinds of things like so um that that was like next door was like that. I mean but like you want to find these like sort of basket case like hey everybody everybody in the world thinks they're X and they're really Y. So like Carvana they think they're like it's a failed you know nobody can ever make money buying and selling cars online. I guess I guess that that would be that that's what they thought was X.

But then, you know, what I thought was why was like, oh, but like they're actually this like national brand. They built this model that is like unique to them. Uh, and if they just were able to get their sales up a little bit more, they could not just be a little bit more profitable, but like massively more profitable. So, um, and then that starts a flywheel and stuff. So, uh, with Next Door, people thought like, oh, this company's been around for like 15 years. uh people tried it then they they they don't like it anymore. That's why they that's why their stock is down. Nobody's paying attention. But when I looked at it, I said like, "Wow, this is a company like again like unique uh in the sort of like they have all these neighborhoods

with all these people going there every day sort of for information about what's happening in my local neighborhood. They they don't it's all been like uh vetted. So you have to, you know, you have to prove that you actually live in that neighborhood to participate on Next Door. Uh, so there's no spam, there's no bots. And um, wow. like what's the difference between somebody like them and somebody like a Reddit where there's like Reddit you know uh but then subreddits in different topics and like you know all you know it seemed like it was doing nothing for years and then all of a sudden like out of out of nowhere like started like to grow like wildfire and got this premium valuation that like

22 times sales versus a Next Door which is like a you know three or four or five times sales. And um uh next door, you know, they did have a bad CEO before who ironically is now the CFO at OpenAI. Um but uh you know they their founder CEO came back and you know he owns a big chunk of the company himself and sort of had thrown himself into it and I was able to talk to him and you know you you could tell like this guy had a had a plan. So um there there's it's not it's never one sizefits-all. Um there's always like a little bit of a difference each time. In the case of Openoro, for example, like I got in at 73 cents last summer, but they had a terrible CEO at

the time and and yet like uh and there was no insider buying like there was at Carvana. Um, but I felt like, oh, they have some like prestigious people who used to be involved in Open Door and I know have been watching from the sidelines and criticizing like the current management as sort of being out of touch and wow, you know, imagine if like some of those, you know, prestigious names like Keith Ro who's like part of the PayPal mafia, you know, he wrote the original business plan for for Open Door. What if somebody like that was able to come, you know, convinced to come back and join the board and like help with the CEO search?

And all of a sudden, like a few months later, uh, that did play out. The old the old CEO was gone. She was she quit. Keith was back. He brought in Cass Nadian who at the, you know, he left the job as COO of Shopify. So he left a $200 billion company where all he had to do is like keep his head down and like probably you know next year or something he would be promoted to be CEO and he decided to quit and leave his like stock options on the table and join a $3 billion market cap company at the time and become the CEO. So it was a it was a pretty amazing like um turn of events um where I was kind of like almost like a mini activist investor. Um it was it's a

lot easier when you don't have to do that and you just sit back and Carvana just like all of a sudden like comes back from the dead. So every case is different. Um but uh and it but it is like you got to be able to live live with the volatility and you got to be able to kind of live with these like gut gut punch um draw downs like and and in the case of of iron or where whatever like nothing changed like the company fundamentally in November of last year versus whenever the low point was February or March like it was a just as strong a company inside the company just as smart a management team and yet all of a sudden like you know at one point in time like the market is like discounting at like 70% off versus where it was like in November like but that's

that's sort of like what happens in the in the tech world and the small cap or growthy cap you know part of of tech and you just like you know same thing happens with Bitcoin and and Ethereum or like some altcoin crazy altcoin like it's just the way it is and if you can figure out how to not like have your head blown off during those draw downs uh and and kind of you know live to fight another like you know that it's eventually going to come back and and then you can profit from from that. So, but it's it's not for the faint of heart for sure. Uh but that that that's why all these like old guys who have no experience in tech, you know, love to crap on these kinds of companies and say, "Oh, Eric's so dumb. Anybody who listens to Eric these companies so dumb.

Don't you see like everything should be valued on a discounted cash flow basis and profits and how can you ever invest in a in a growthy company? Well, I mean that if that's if that's your thing, I mean just you be a value investor, okay? But but don't don't say like that you can't make money from investing in a Reddit or a Carvana or an Open Door. This is it's just not true. You're just you're just not smart enough to kind of understand how these, you know, tech companies or or crypto works. The way we build wealth is changing. Stocks, savings accounts, real estate, that playbook is getting rewritten in real time. Nexo is the platform built for what's next. It's an all-in-one digital wealth platform where you can earn interest on your crypto, borrow against

it without selling, and trade a wide range of assets all in one place with 24/7 support and institutional grade security. Oh, and by the way, Nexo is back in the US with new US clients getting 30 days of Wealth Club premier access. That means elevated interest rates, lower borrowing costs, and crypto cashback on trades. Benefits usually reserved for loyalty program members. Get started at milkroad.com/nexo. Your phone carrier knows more about you than your best friend does. Where you go, who you call, when you sleep, and they're selling all of it. AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, they've all been caught leaking data or cashing in on it.

And your VPN, your encrypted messaging app, they can't fix what's broken at the network level. That's where Cape comes in. Cape is America's privacy first mobile carrier. Same premium coverage you'd expect, built with privacy from day one. Your phone's network identifier rotates every 24 hours, so you look like a different subscriber every day. Call logs are deleted after 24 hours. You get two encrypted secondary numbers for signups and 2FA included in your plan. Plus, SIM swap protection that puts you in control of your number, so no one, not even Cape, can hijack it. Use code milkroad at milkroad.com/cape for 33% off your first 6 months.

Eric, you also have a line to some of these people, man. Like, just going and talking to the CFO is not something that our listeners can do. No, >> but maybe that's a good reason to follow you. I mean, at the same time, you know, it's also nice to follow people who do that research. >> Yeah, that's true. I mean, I I think the most But like I mean, I Who am I? Like I'm just some like 53-year-old guy in like North Toronto walk my dogs, you know? Like a lot of people would say like he's a nobody and stuff. So like I don't think anybody should feel uh intimidated from you know emailing reaching out phoning like asking for a meeting with some of these you know uh you know when when these companies are down and out like they they will remember the people that were there like

I remember I wrote a I wrote an email to uh Ernie Garcia who's who was the CEO is the CEO of of Carvana in I think it was in January of um 2023. So, this was just like a couple of weeks removed from when they would they hit $3.50. And I hadn't met him before. So, it was like a cold email. I just sort of like looked up, you know, guessed what like, you know, I don't know, first name.ast name at cararvana.com or something. And then I sent I but but I had just talked to the guy who was this the chief product officer, the guy who dug into his pocket and bought the three and a half million. And I said to Ernie like, "Hey, you don't know me. Uh, but I just want you to know like I had this conversation with this guy who works for

you and he he you know he he told me like he met you at Stanford as in undergrad and you know uh you guys were like really tight as a management team and he believed in the company and he just you know dug into his pocket and bought three half million dollars worth of your stock and I just want to say like that's really rare and so you should be commended because like that doesn't happen unless you have a smart and and a and a a a strong leader at the top and so and he responded and and he, you know, oh, thanks a lot. You know, I appreciate you, you know, saying that like and um, you know, I've emailed him a couple times since then when now when the stock is like 100x what it was, but they they remember those moments. So, I

mean, I think that's that's something I would tell my kids and anybody watching is just like don't don't be intimidated. don't think like you're, you know, some some nobody and like don't be afraid to reach out and and if you reach out, especially when the company's going through, you know, hard times, they'll they'll they'll definitely remember when when things turn later. >> I've also said and especially this is, you know, what you're saying is even truer in crypto as well because it's it's not it's a much smaller community in a sense. I've always said this that crypto is the only place where you'll have a guy who spends $10 on meme coins and thinks that that's a lot and that they are literally a a DM away from a Vitalic Buterine or a I don't know James Win super trader or any of the other big

personalities in crypto that like the guy with 10 extra dollars to spend is a DM away from the guy who has a $5 billion liquid that liquid stash that he he moves on hyperlquid every day, you know, like that. It's like those people are just parallel in the same spot on X and in DMs and like you're saying is true that it's like it doesn't it doesn't hurt to actually reach out. You'd be surprised. Um Eric, I I do want to ask you what's on your radar now? That's what we want to know after you've given us this this amazing kind of intro. Like what what are you looking at through the spring and summer here? Well, I think uh in crypto, I mean, obviously I'll I'll be watching for like when my stress, you know, macro indicator uh signals like we've hit a bottom and like we're starting to like

move into this sort of choppy period and then the bullish period. And I'll I'll definitely be piling into kind of um not just Bitcoin and Ethereum, but but some of the smaller alt altcoin names as well, >> like what like what like who >> like I I'm a big fan of Sky um as as a as a coin. Um I got a chance to meet um Vance Spencer who is with uh he's Canadian uh but he's now down in San Francisco with Frame Framework Ventures and um you know as is a big um backer of of Sky as a sort of so it's a stable coin but it is less uh it's it's more decentralized stable coin basically. So >> Oh yeah. Oh we know we know we talk about Sky a lot. It's in our Milk Road portfolios pretty heavily. So we we've

had Ruin on the show recently as well. So, we know we know a lot about Sky and we did um when what was the name of the firm that launched their like stable coin like agent fund or whatever that was? Oh god, I'm so bad. I'm so bad at remembering my own episodes. >> They did a partnership with a company called Better and and basically they're going to um allow people to get mortgages backed by Sky. >> That's right. And because of that, because it's backed by Sky, uh they're able to kind of almost take out, I think it's like a 100 bips of of from the legacy uh you know, world of of of how you get a mortgage and and what it costs you. Just sort of taking out like all

those you know, the traditional players and mortgage and title and stuff. uh they can they can offer a mortgage um backed by Sky, you know, like with at 100 bips less and better makes money from it. You know, Sky does, you know, does well from it and all this kind of stuff. So, uh and people are getting cheaper mortgages. So, they're doing some really cool and innovative stuff. Um Bit Tensor, you know, is another name that I uh I like and uh you know, I spent a lot of time just going through white papers um of of new coins and it's it's it's funny. you you really can, you know, learn a lot about up and cominging uh altcoins, but also potential frauds, you know, just from like going back to the original white papers and studying them in detail. There's there's often

times like some some good uh tips that you can or tells like I was saying before that you can gather that will give you some some tips. So that's that's from the crypto world. uh in terms of like the next big thing in in the you know the next open door the next Carvana and stuff I mean I'm very bullish on a on a stock called Dave uh which I don't know if you've heard of LG but it's only in the US and it basically they're trying to they're using AI to displace um people that have a lower credit score right who get to the end of a end of a week and they're running a little short you know, to whatever, pay the rent, you know, or gas money or whatever. The ones

who used to have to go to their brother, you know, hey, can you cover me for like a $200 loan until like next Tuesday or something or their parents or whoever. Um what Dave does is uh you sign into Plaid in the US and Plaid, you know, interfaces with your checking account and sees like what's your last 6 months of cash flow actually in your checking account so that they they and they don't even touch your credit score. They don't do a they don't ping your your credit uh bureau. uh they just look at cash flow and from that they can determine is this uh is Eric a good candidate for a $214 loan, you know, between now and like

next week. And and that's the average size of of the loans that they that they do. And if they see the cash flow evidence, uh they say yes, they approve you right away. they they front you the money and then because they've linked now with your checking account when the cash comes into your account and hits the account then that's how they get paid back. So it's uh uh it's a different model uh but they're growing like gang busters and uh believe it or not and they're not really taking uh that much credit risk uh because and their their their default rates are super super low. they have um partners where they kind of offload they get it off their balance sheet. So they're just sort of like this they built this sort

of front-end AI to kind of analyze you and the potential risk you are and if you're good for the 200 buck loan uh for a few days and so and and they're going like crazy and they're just like scratching the surface of the you know their their potential market. So I mean they got they got they've already done really well. I mean they went from like five bucks in 2023 to uh they're like 270 bucks today. Yeah, >> I I got in them a couple of months ago when they were like 170 bucks uh on like a recent pullback. Um and I just think there's like much more good news to come for them over the next year or two. Um I I you know have some pretty audacious like longer term price targets for them.

U so I think the story is just getting started. They're they're now getting into a new credit card type product, but again it's sort of like tied back to your c the cash flow in your account. So people would say, "Oh, is this buy now pay later?" Well, not really. Kind of, but it's a little different. It's a it's a new model that's been enabled through AI uh that I would say is like a lot less risky than the the typical like buy now a pay later folks. So that that's a name I really like. And then believe it or not, I'm like I'm very bullish on Pelaton. That's another like, you know, former co darling.

>> Oh yeah. I think it hit like something like 170 bucks at the heights like back then but now you know a few months ago it got down at the 3s. Uh I got into it in the high 3s around like four bucks. It's at like six bucks today. Uh people say oh who uses Pelaton anymore or I I see them at the mall sometimes and nobody you know no one's in their stores like you know uh why should I get into it? Well, like but you you I think what's interesting is they've got like two million subs still that they're paying and probably many are like me where I I got it sitting in my basement.

I got I got two I got I got the tread and I got the the um uh the bike and uh when was the last time I was on it myself? Like maybe I don't know two months ago maybe. I'm like I'm not I'm not like super into it, but I'm still paying my I don't know what it is now, 50 bucks a month subscription, 60 bucks. And I I'm I'm going to and my my wife like she uses it more than I do, but she just like loves like there's like one uh woman instructor that she just loves. She she'll So I know like in my family, we're going to be subscribers for forever. And uh they have a smart new CEO. um unlike their last two CEOs, they they are they have this like steady cash flow kind of business. They uh they have

a path to kind of keep growing and keep building and stuff. So, it's just again like fly, you know, I I I love this. Nobody's talking about it on Halftime Report on CNBC, but this thing could just levitate and would not surprise me in a couple years this thing was like in the high teens or something like that. If we get some, you know, some some actual growth again, which would be fantastic, then it could be even higher than that. >> You're listening to the Milk Road Show, which means you've got takes, strong ones, I bet. But where do those takes actually go? Do you tweet them into the void, argue them in the group chat, or do you try to express them by buying a stock? The thing is, stocks move on like 50 other things at once, and that's where Koshi comes in. It's a CFTC

regulated prediction market where you bet directly on outcomes like Bitcoin hitting 100K, Fed rate cuts, GameStop buying eBay with a clean yes or no. We did a full deep dive on why prediction markets might be crypto's third product market fit moment. Check the show notes for the full report and claim $10 free when you trade $10 on Cali. Eric, I love these companies, man. These are both Appelon is at a $2.64 billion cap and Dave is where we at 3.4. 42. Man, these are You know what I like most about these? Not only is I like your logic and I love I love the idea of just like listen, this is a former giant. They're all the way dead, especially Pelaton.

It's like we saw that chart is nuts. Uh peaked at like 130 or something and it's now at six bucks. Um it's a former giant still has a lot of subscribers clearly trying to rewire the business and they have they have something really valuable which is paying customers and a huge basket of them that they could reactivate. But I love the part I like the most is the market cap because these are this is like a crypto token. You're talk you're talking our language. It's like these are like good alts. You know what I mean? You put them these are top hundred tokens in crypto. Uh and I think that that's that's always a lens I think when we do talk about stocks on crypto or on this crypto show. We try and look at things that way. We're just like okay listen like if this is a if this is a

real company it would be very undervalued. So if it comes to fruition of what it's what these um crypto companies are are promising they can do if crypto continues it its institutional adoption and its road they will repric aggressively over time. Um and I like that you even though these are not crypto companies you're you're bringing stuff that has that similar a similar mentality at least that it's like it's undervalued. Here's a great reason why you know it could continue uh to move up especially in Dave's case. >> Well yeah >> great picks. I mean, who doesn't which of us doesn't want to go back in time and be able to buy some Bitcoin back in like 09 and 10, right? You know, and you know, but that's never going to happen.

And I love Bitcoin and I still think it's going to 50 million uh you know, in 15 years. But, uh, you know, we're not we're not going to it's not going to go up 10,000% in two years, right? And that's, you know, so you're going to have to I I get it why all the dens are playing the meme coins and and all that kind of stuff. But like the problem with the meme coins is like what are you hanging your hat on other than if you're like one of these guys that runs these Telegram groups and where you're you're basically just trying to pump it and get your followers in the group chat to just kind of trade it back and forth with each other and then and then dump it on some other people like, you know, uh a few days from now or something like

that. You know, obviously that's not sustainable. So, uh, otherwise I'd be playing that for sure. Um, like if there was some like sustainable reason like I'd be all huffing in in the meme coins, but so for me like I these kinds of stocks and and you know like like some of the other like altcoins that that we talked about as well. I mean that's that's that's what gets my juices flowing and then and to try to find something again like you know that to to to really feel comfortable that you're you know this is not just like you know there is a a tradable you know investment strategy here that you can kind of feel comfortable with. But that being said, like you can still screw up like a name like Pelaton, you could get in it you could have got in into it at I

don't know five or six bucks like the beginning of this year. They had a bad earnings report. >> All next thing you know the thing's down to like in trading in the threes, right? Like and everybody's like puking it out saying, "Ah, I knew this thing will never turn around." And like you know, but then you wait 3 months, six months and then all of a sudden like, "Hey, we're back at six." And so, you know, that I mean it's it's uh you got to watch for these things to blow up in your face, but um uh it it it can work out profitably just on the on the in the other direction. >> That's awesome, Eric. Thank you for your thoughts, man. This has been a great show. Uh I love the chat. I didn't even get to ask you about Drake. Uh but we'll

save that we'll save that for another show. We'll save that for when Milk Road brings DJ back or something like that. We used to have a DJ show that I ran. So maybe maybe if we ever do that, I'll bring you back on it so we can understand all your tweets about Drake. Thank you, sir. Uh and uh I guess you know when your indicators flash again, give us a call. >> All right, we'll do. Thanks, LG. >> Want insights on what's moving crypto markets and how we're trading each event? Subscribe to our channel and join the Milk Road Daily and Pro Newsletters and start investing like the top 1%. This show is for educational purposes only. Nothing we say is financial advice. Investing is risky. Never invest more than you can afford to lose.