Elliot Chun on the Crypto Core and digital asset treasuries

Transcript

GM, good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show that feels like catching up with your college buddies. Pure joy until you realize the hangover now lasts three days. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Thursday, August 21st. Yeezy dropped a token. We are at that point in the cycle. Should you be buying the Yeezy token? The What happened with this dropped? There's I can't believe the way this was dropped. We're going to talk about that. How can we not talk about that? Uh we're also going to talk about why crypto is the new Mag 7. And today's guest has a bold call on the outperformance he believes that what he is calling the crypto core aka the new

Mag 7. We're going to talk about who will be in the crypto core and why he believes they are going to outperform the mag 7 and public equities over the next decade. Also, we're going to talk about DATs and so much more. are joining us today is Elliot Chun, partner at Architect Partners. Also, before we jump in, super super exciting news. We have just launched a new website, milkro.com got a fresh look, new milk, and it is so so exciting because it's faster, it's smoother, and it's got all of our content in one place because we've been pumping out so much new content. So, to celebrate the new website, first of all, you grow.com.

Check it out right now. Let us know what you think. Hit us up in the comments. Let us know if you think it's good. I hope you do. But to celebrate, we're giving discounts on Pro All Access. Also, you can get our new Macro Pro product at 25% off. So, hit milkroad.com or the link in the show notes. Check out the new site go today because the next 6 to 12 months as we're going to talk about today's episode, it's going to be an opportunity to make serious serious money and you're going to want a community to do it beside. So, GoPro, today's episode is brought to you by Aura. Remove your personal info from the web before scammers get it. Also brought to you by Figure Markets. Grow your cash like a bank. No lockups, just real returns. With that, Elliot, welcome to

the Milk Road Show. >> Jay, I just got done looking at the new Milk Road website and my 3-day hangover is gone. I mean, it's amazing. All you got to do is check out all the stuff and it's like an instant fix. Well done. I appreciate that, Elliot. Thank you for uh plugging my plug. That's I wish every guest did that for me making my job easy. Uh okay, let's let's start with with uh you and I were not planning to talk about Yeezy launching a token today when we were prepping for this episode earlier this week. But hey, we woke up today and Yeezy launched a token. Let me just set this up by he launched this token by posting a 4-se secondond video

on his Twitter where he looks completely out of it and is clearly just told by somebody, hey, read this and he says it's 4 seconds of him just saying the Yeezy token is live, go buy it, basically. Uh, so we have this Yeezy token. What Elliot, what do you think? >> I mean, it's brutal, right? It's it it's brutal, but it's a necessary evil. Um, first off, why is it brutal? It's brutal because uh it's been proven through these types of launches that uh the long-term or the holders that participate, they get wrecked. And I I from what I I've read, uh they're they

actually have in in the fine print, there's no class action lawsuits. So it feels like they're basically have a free call option to rug any of the holders, which seeing the the track record is is not surprising, right? Um, but it does bring in new market participants into the crypto ecosystem and all these just meme coins in general, NFTts in general, they probably have a higher impact in terms of bringing different users of crypto uh into the ecosystem. So, that part is a positive. Now, again, it's brutal because a lot of people get wrecked, a lot of people don't know what they're

doing, and a lot of people are just following because they're fans. Uh so you have you have people that are uh abusing I'll say their uh popularity at the expense of their followers. I hope that there are longerterm repercussions but you know there's there's meme coins getting launched every day. Uh and some people are making very significant wealth off of them. Uh and until that stops what's going to how are we going to stop it? Like it's just I'm trying to share my screen here to show uh the the Yeezy top sellers uh is a list of everybody like the top 10 that have sold the Yeezy token and none of them bought the Yeezy

token. They all got the Yeezy token given to them at $0 and they're already dumping. Top sellers sold $1.4 million worth of Yeezy. So somebody second 1 million next up $975,000 list goes on top 10 all making over $100,000 just given this Yeezy token and then dumping right away. It's it is it's so scary because as you said this is the entry point for so many people into crypto. It was I I don't remember who said it recently, but we all assume that, okay, if you're in the space and you're going to enter crypto, and I'm sure you're like this with your family and friends who aren't in crypto, and my

advice is simple, just buy Bitcoin, right? Don't even don't even go down the risk curve even further than that because, and it's not to say I don't believe in Ethereum and Salon. huge bags in those. But I I'm very confident in in Bitcoin being a simple and easy investment, and you're not going to get wrecked, and that's my main concern, and you're probably not going to have the stress of like the ups and downs. But most people who come into the space come in through a a token like this, a memecoin, like some or some sort of cultural token, Trumpcoin, these types of things. And when they come in is usually in one of two ways. They usually come in at the top and they're exit liquidity for these scammers or they

come in when a new token like this launches. And again, same thing, exquity. So, it's just Yeah, I don't know. I got everybody out there, tell me if anybody bought the easy token. Give us a comment. Let us know if you bought the easy token. If you got a if you've got an investment thesis fork, I'll have you on the show because I would love to hear somebody actually give me an investment thesis because this just seems like a a pure grift. I mean, I don't again, I haven't read into the docs or anything like that. I love that you say that the doc says that there's they they cannot be given a class action lawsuit, which is again shows it's just it's scary stuff, man. It's scary stuff.

Be careful out there, folks. Be patient, you know. Be patient. It is scary but it there is something to the attention economy and you know the memecoins keep coming out right and you know I tell people if you went back in time and you had MySpace and Facebook and all those groups the way that they would have compensated the biggest attractors or the attention grabbers on their website would have been through a meme claim >> right we will pay you for as many views and likes that you get. Now, that technology did not exist. The 2025 crypto technology did not exist in the

late 90s, early 2000s. So, they had to do this very silly, you know, marketing sell ads business model, right? That still exists today. But you could argue that Yeezy in this example is monetizing his attraction, is monetizing his attention. He's monetizing the things that he's been doing for all these years that he may not have been able to monetize before. Now, let me be clear. I don't agree with this type of stuff at all.

And it's um you have to squint when you see kind of the ICOs, the NFTts, and the meme coins. And we're talking about cycles here. We're talking about what works in the short term, what works in the long term. You got to have these experiments where you come out with something like this and bad things happen to uninformed people so that you get smarter and they don't happen again. >> Yeah. so long as they don't as they don't rage quit and and leave because >> they came here once and lost all their money which is like the un but I I think you're you have to have an entry point in some way and you cannot deny that crypto is giving an entry point to

finance and investing that a lot of the world doesn't have or hasn't used previously. And if we can get more of the world onboarded into finance and investing and understanding how to manage their money and understanding how to make their money work for them and grow their money and have access to better financial products, which is like this whole side of crypto that we're all so excited about. I mean, we could talk all day about that. Then then that's a huge win. It's just uh don't just I just hope we don't, you know, don't come here for the one token and then and then leave. Um, let's let's talk before I I want to talk about your your take on Mag7 versus the crypto core. But before

we do that, just to give our audience a little bit more background on you, talk to us a little bit about what's your investing framework. How do you approach crypto investing, but maybe I know you're more of like an emerging technology and innovation investor, which crypto is a part of. Give us your framework and how you think that through. >> Yeah, so it's important. I came from the cash equity side at at I was on a desk at Bank of America. I sat on a buyside seat for for eight years at Pela Weineberg Partners. Um, so I've been on on the investment side across all types of asset classes for a long time. And in our seat, our job was to generate alpha.

And uh, generating alpha came in in many different ways. And some of it was quote unquote longerterm investing and some of it was shorter term investing. And shorter term being, you know, seconds, minutes, right? What's apparent is it's very very very difficult to consistently generate alpha over a long period of time when you are implementing a liquid strategy i.e. buying selling maybe on a daily or weekly basis. It's just hard and there's a number of reasons for that. Uh the markets have changed, information has changed, phones have changed everything. There used to be an information edge i.e. If you're sitting on a trading desk, you would get

information before everything else and the smartphone changed that. So, right, everyone gets the same amount of information at the same time. Very very hard to truly generate alpha. So, that's that's one thing to think about. Second is, you know, where is emerging technologies and what is the impact that it's had on on human society that you don't look any further than the internet, right? And you look at what the internet did to the New York Stock Exchange, changing it from a bastion of US capital markets to a glorified TV and event studio within a 10-year period.

And you kind of look back and you're like, whoa, that that is very significant. I have applied that same lens to what I've tried to identify is what is that next emerging technology that is going to impact human society as much as the internet. I've applied that to this which is blockchain, DT, crypto, digital assets tokenized RWA DATs whatever we want to call it, uh the trend that we want to call it. And so I think it's important to note that and we'll go into this a little bit. I've shifted my personal investing from in and out in and out day in day out week in week out to a longer horizon 3 6 9 12 months and just kind of observing.

And the more I've been in the industry and I've been in crypto full-time since 2018. I bought my first Bitcoin in 2014. Um, I have realized that I have no edge on where the majors, the major cryptocurrencies Bitcoin Ethereum Salana etc. Ripple um Cardano uh where they're going to go in the short and medium term, in the short term, weekly or long-term, monthly. I do know where it's going to go in the long term, and it is going higher. So, why would I try and chop myself up trying to pick levels, trying to pick cycles, trying to

pick XYZ? I know we're going higher from here. And so, going higher from here, I've chosen to say, let's go all in in going higher from here. I don't I take all my crypto off my phone when I'm wherever because I don't want access to it because Yeah. >> I I I can't change it. my my thesis is set and I've been so confident in it that I've invested my career since 2018 and here we are 2025. I >> it's it is in a way the most transformative but yet simple investment advice you can get is like get out of your own way. Like don't [ __ ] it up.

like it is the the the thing that I see so much in it's this it's the need for immediate gain. It's that serotonin hit. It's the need to get rich quick. It's that you saw somebody else do it and you're like, "Okay, that's what I'm here for." You you need to remove that expectation because the truth is winning right now in crypto is incredibly simple. It's just not simple in the next month. So don't try in the next month, but in the next year, the next decade, it's actually very simple. Just get out of your own way. And I think it's it's hard to appreciate that when you're here

every day because your fingers want you want to get into the kitchen and you want to tweak it and you're looking for that thing and oh, there's my opportunity. But you've which is which is to say like I'm not saying there's not going to be and I think this kind of leads to my next question is I'm not saying there's not going to be ups and downs. You had a you had an interesting take that you shared with me on where you see if we we zoom out long term on Bitcoin. You had an interest take on where you see Bitcoin going in terms of uh a whether we're going to hit a high next or whether we're going to go down to a low. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I one thing I just want to address on on trading, right, and and hearing other

people, maybe friends talk about their wins. Nobody ever talks about their losses. And it is it is so brutal because everyone says, "Oh, I crushed it on this." They're not going to tell you, "I got my face ripped off on that." and that type of immediacy, that type of thing, it it's very difficult to have that discipline. And by all means, like allocate a portion of your portfolio to do that, to play around because that part is enjoyable to some. But yeah, no one ever talks about their losses.

>> Here go. Here you go. I lost $25,000 on a moon burnt. So there you go. Like, you know, like you want to talk little losses, I got them. I did the NFT thing and I made my mistakes. What's What's your worst trade that you've ever made? uh selling part of Bitcoin in 2014. >> That's But you were probably made though. You were probably up. You just weren't you were >> Yeah, but I mean what but that's the that's the whole point. Why why I thought at the time I was smarter than what I was and you you make the sale, right? I've actually trained myself to not I mean look, I came in in 2018, so I literally went into ICOs that were just straight frauds. Mhm.

>> I mean, you know, you send your money and then you get a call from the co-founder and the co-founder says, "Uh, the guy with the keys is literally gone." And you're like, "What? >> What? >> What? What? How did that happen? >> What do you mean?" >> Yeah. Yeah. What? You're the co-founder. What? What does that mean? He's like, "I don't know what to tell you. He's gone." Like, gone with the keys. >> Okay. So, that those those are some pretty bad trades. to your question about where we are in the cycle. Look, uh I I generally I've gone to calling levels more than calling specific price targets. Um and so where we are in this cycle, you know, we're at the 110 phase. I feel like we're going to hit an 80 handle before we hit the

250 handle, right? But I do think that we're going to hit a 250 handle. Maybe not this year. >> Well, so cycle is a funny term now, right? Because are we talking about the four-year having related cycle? Um, >> no. >> That's over. Unless you want to debate me on that, but I think that's over. >> Yeah. So that's So then my question is is what cycle are you referring to here? Because I believe that we're no longer in a cycle.

And I believe that we've taken our lumps. We've we've What are the things that could bring us back down? Um I think people not applying digital asset treasury strategies correctly is certainly a risk. >> Uh there's some names that are large enough in our industry that are a risk. For example, if something bad were to happen to Tether, that is a systemic risk uh to our industry. Um I don't I'm a little bit I've been reading up a lot about quantum computing. And so part of my thesis is that uh no matter what quantum computing comes that the Bitcoin protocol in the network will be able to resist that the way that it's built. So

I'm not as concerned, but certainly I could be wrong about that thesis. We we did I just to mention we did an episode with Jameson Lop uh one of the like OG Bitcoin devs uh and a leader in Bitcoin security and really focused on okay how do we keep Bitcoin secure for you know the next millennia uh and and he's concerned about quantum computing but he also presents a case of it's solvable it's still early enough that uh we can handle it and I think look at the level that bitcoin coin is at now of you know we've gone from retail to institutional to we're starting to enter the sovereign cycle of Bitcoin right still very early

in the sovereign side and still early on in the institutional side as well and and even the retail early on all all accounts but the I think we will we will solve that um >> listen to Jameson he's awesome >> he's amazing oh man pro tip don't Google your name and city I just did and instantly regretted it they've got everything my address, my email address, phone number. If you've ever wondered how scammers get your phone number or why your inbox is constantly flooded with spam, this is why. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, data brokers are collecting and selling your information online, all without your prior consent, and they're making billions of dollars doing it. Now, sure, they're legally required to remove your information if you ask, but they deliberately make that process as

complicated and confusing as possible. That's why I just signed up with Aura. They take care of all the hard parts for me, automatically removing my information from these sites and more importantly keeping it off. Aura offers fraud and data leak alerts, $5 million in identity theft protection, a VPN, anti virus software, password manager, and roundthe-clock US-based customer support all in one place. Try Aura free for 14 days. Go to milkroad.com/ra. Why do people invest in real estate? Because it spits off cash flow. But I'm not here to manage rental properties.

That's why I'm looking at Figure Markets, their new democratized prime product backs your money with real cash flowing assets and returns up to 9% APY. It's the first real world asset borrow lend pool built for everyone, not just institutions. Ready to lend like a bank and get more than the 5% A is offering you? Download the Figure Markets app today and get 9% on your idol funds. Go to milroad.comfiguremarkets. So my take on cycle is that we're in macro cycles now. We're impacted by liquidity and basically currency debasement and money printing that comes out of the major economies mostly the four majors. Uh and that from that

perspective it feels like our take at Milk Road is that this cycle peaks sometime in 2026. still too early to say when in 2026. Like is it Q1? Is it could it extend even into Q3 or Q4? I I'm I'm I don't know yet. So we got to see what happens with rate cuts in the fall and with liquidity, but that would be my my view on the cycle. I don't know if frames your view. >> So my I have a different I have a different view on the cycle, but I will say uh we're at Architect Partners. We're crypto dedicated M&A and capital raising. So all we do is talk with founders all day. Uh I this in this last quarter or two quarters, I've had more founders come to me saying that they

want to consider uh strategic options because they're concerned that by 2026 we're going to be in a different environment in a down environment. >> Yeah. >> They're not saying bare, but if they're thinking about macro perspective, when am I going to sell my company? We're just coming out of a brutal 22, 23, and 24 cycle. They'd much rather, they don't want to live through that again. You know, let's get some options on the table for 25 and 26 before we start seeing the second half of 26 get a little squir squirmish squirrely, right?

So, >> um, >> so I think there's a lot of of founders that are in this all day that are also tagging 26 as >> as a hey, we want to be getting all of our stuff done before then, >> right? To avoid the next downturn, right? You know, my view is like, look, we're from here to 2030, it's going to be it's going to be rocky. It's going to be but less so because our industry is much more mature. We've the the people that are leading these organizations are completely different than they were five even 10 years ago. The amount of capital that has been invested into the infrastructure in order to support the

different holes that we have. We still need to solve two things. Security like we cannot wake up and say XYZ exchange got hacked for you know $500 million. Like that just has to stop. So we need to solve for that and we need to solve for identity. It's too hard for, you know, listeners here. I mean, even me, I shouldn't be responsible for self-custody. It just we need to make a better way to fix this. And and we haven't gotten there yet. And there's some good uh uh uh solutions that are out there. But once those two things get solved, we're I think we're in a totally different cycle market environment, which I think we're in now. So, you

know, my view from here to 2030, you know, we will be at a million dollars US dollars per Bitcoin at some point between now and then, which is why if you just close, and this is only a 4 and a half year run. If you close your eyes, that's, you know, close to a 10x return. I don't know anywhere else in my market history where I've been presented with that type of a thesis that I'm convicted on >> where I can screw it up if I start trying to say, "Oh, 2026 I'm going to sell in the middle of 26 and then we rip towards the end of the year and I'm like, what did I just do?" Yeah.

>> Right. And maybe it's 27 or 28. So, >> yeah. Yeah. that that I think that that Bitcoin thesis is is actually becoming consensus. Like that is not a non-conensus thesis is, you know, you say million-dollar Bitcoin, it can sound a little bit crazy, you know, right now, but by 2030, million-dollar Bitcoin, yeah, there's a lot of very smart people that would say the exact same thing. So again, just get out of your own way. make sure you know a good percent, you know, I don't know if you decide your own portfolio allocation. I don't know if it should be 50% Bitcoin, if it should be 20% Bitcoin or 80% Bitcoin, but like just make sure you're heavily in Bitcoin and in the majors. Now, that

being said, I do think ETH outperforms Bitcoin for the rest of this cycle. That would be another take I would have. I don't know your thoughts on that. >> Yeah, I agree. Um I agree, but mostly because Ethereum is just getting back to its all-time high levels, right? And so it didn't participate in the way that that Bitcoin and and other majors participated in this last move higher. But you know it it is I have to Ethereum. So it's all about story and Bitcoin is has now the the story of Bitcoin I think is becoming crystallized, right? It's less of it's all about a store of value, right? It's less about a medium of exchange. People

aren't using Bitcoin for payments generally speaking. Um, it's about value and it's about collateral. And I think people are starting to understand it, which is why you saw so much price improve appreciation. I mean, if you look at the last 10 years, it's literally 29x, right? If you look at, you know, the Mag 7 performance from there, it's 7x. I mean, these are just astounding numbers. You have to pause and say, what 29x? like that's an amazing run. I think Ethereum is going to be positioned maybe not for the 29, but it's going to be positioned for a nice outperformance uh in in you know in this in this next

period a lot because of the story that's being told by you know the the Tom Lees and the Joe Shaloms at the digital asset treasuries sharp links and and the Bit miners they have very compelling explanations for why Ethereum is a investor able asset, why it's going to financialize, why it's going to digitize the financial markets, and why a digital asset treasury holding Ethereum on its balance sheet is similar to Exxon Mobile. Look at how Exon Mobile's performance has been, right? We can go a little bit into that, but I think that story is starting, people are starting to understand it. Wait, you're going to digitize financial markets with

Ethereum? I want to buy that. I want to own that. >> Who wouldn't? Who wouldn't? >> Exactly. And you sit there and you see stable coins happening and you see that, oh, Bitcoin is only meant to do this one thing, but the internet does so much more than just store value or basically send value is all really Bitcoin does. And I'm not hating on Bitcoin. That's an incredible use case and absolutely love it for that. But there's more to the way that we move value around the internet and around the world. And Ethereum is clearly set up as leader. For me, the the thesis on Ethereum is so simple right now. Let me just bring up this chart quickly. This is the uh uh the

ETHBTC chart. And it's to me it's just this simple. You look at this and you say, "Okay, uh last we topped out ETH BTC between like 085 and 09, right? Okay. Do you believe that we can go back to that number?" I don't know that we can get all the way back there, but I believe we can come close. We're at 037 right now. Okay, great. Keep an eye on this chart and DCA out at a comfortable level that you think when we get to the peak here on Ethereum and you can do pretty well I think on the Ethereum trade over the next don't know exactly what the time frame is. Is it 3 months?

Is it 12 months? But somewhere in that range. >> Yeah. And as as financial markets come on chchain, yes, there are other chains that one can use, some other highquality ones, but it's taken this long for Ethereum to make its way. I'm not going to say it's a household name, but Bitcoin is certainly a household name now. I expect Ethereum to be shortly. And as Jay points out in that chart, do you think it's going to go you think it's going higher from here or are we we're going back to lows? I I I agree with Jay. We're we're we're going, you know, we're going higher on that chart.

>> Okay. Let's let's talk about um the your cryptocore thesis. I like this term. What is the crypto core? >> So, the crypto core is an exciting to be identified set of components that are cryptonative companies that have made their way to public equity markets. And so you know the biggest name today are is Coinbase would be included in the crypto core. Micro strategy would be strategy would be included in the crypto core. And then we have a bunch of other names. Okay. Now what are those other names? We've got the miners which you know take there there's going to be some components that come from the mining

side and then now you have digital asset treasuries which uh you'll see a couple of components there. The thesis is that if in the last 10 years 2015 to 2024 the Magnificent 7 uh was they returned 7x return over that time period. They were they attributed over 33% of equity returns have come from just those seven companies. I believe that in the next 10 years, the crypto core will have a very similar impact to equity indices that the MAG 7 did in the previous 10 years. Meaning the bulk of the outperformance in equity

indices is going to come from the crypto core. Now I will asterisk this that the AI trend is going to be significant and there's likely going to be a set of companies in AI that outperforms similar to the crypto core but today as we know it and the the exciting thing about the crypto core is the names are still coming right we haven't identified all those names yet even this year uh there's been I believe over 50 new companies over 500 million in market cap that are cryto crypto natives that are now publicly traded, >> right? The number before this year was like 15.

>> That's an that's an insane move higher. And so part of the cryptocor thesis is we don't know which names are going to go in there yet. But you can make some certain assumptions that, you know, we just had Circle go IPO this year. Circle feels like a good long-term company that's got great prospects. They could be a cryptocore uh uh component. Uh you know, Galaxy Digital uplisted from the TSX. Now they're on a major US exchange. They've been they're OGs. They've been around for a while. They could be a component of that. And you've got the names of companies that are coming through the regular way IPO process are long and heavy and they are some of the

best names in our industry. So as these names become public and as you start seeing uh the quality companies start to come into effect, the crypto core is going to start forming and you're going to start seeing some from mining and then you're start you're probably going to see six or seven from the digital asset treasury uh cohort. And together the crypto core is going to be call it 15 names that are really going to drive equity value in public equities. Equ uh equity price performance in public equities for the next 10 years.

>> Two qu I I love this thesis and I I I couldn't agree more. I wish I wish it was as simple as like buying the cryptocore index today. If we knew what the cryp if we could go forward and predict which which 15 or 12 or 10 this is going to be that would just make our life so easy. Uh yeah two questions. One is who's not actually let me ask this first question first is I agree that digital asset treasuries there will be some that really make it that feels clear. There's also great risk which we'll talk about in a second with DATs. You mentioned that before, but before we talk about that, are is it just going to be DATs for Bitcoin and Ethereum that are in the crypto core or

do you think it'll be DATs for other tokens as well? How far down the stack do you think it will go? So, I do think it will be other DATs focused on other crypto treasury assets besides just Bitcoin and Ethereum. But the biggest thing to the biggest thing to kind of um uh to to pivot on and to focus on is what is the long-term operating strategy of the DAT? That is where you're going to find these companies. And the DAT the DAT trade we started in April 2nd when GameStop kind of announced, right, April 2nd. So we're we're we're August 21st right here. So

we're only four and a half months into this thing. What's I have gone from that's our ICO memecoin NFT that trend don't really pay attention to them to oh man if you think about what they've been able to do which is help solve our industry's biggest challenge which is access and distribution. These companies now that are sitting on these treasury strategies, those that operate a long that execute a long-term strategy, which means either acquiring, building an operating business that generates your core asset, your treasury asset.

Those are the companies that are going to become household names in five years. Everyone will know them because of what they were able to do. Now, there's 180 DATs that have been announced since April 2nd. So, 50 50% of those won't be around in 5 years. 25% of those will kind of be treading water. 15% of those will be like, yeah, we're kind of in the midcaps. It's that five, 7, 10%. Those are the ones that are going to win. And those are the ones that are going to win because they have implemented a strategy. They've done something instead of just accumulate and hold. And that's what's so exciting

about these companies. And you look and you you look at, you know, Bit Miner and and and Sharlink and you're like, "Wow, those are some pretty high quality operators there." There's Bitcoin Treasury companies that have very high quality operators there. To answer your question, Jay, there's also highquality operators in the non- Bitcoin and and Ethereum DATs. And so, you have to look to those organizations and say, "Wow, do I believe in those leaders? Do I believe in their ability to execute because that is what's going to really drive value and drive investment return.

>> Yeah, I I really like the percentage breakdown you have because I completely agree with that. And many of our guests recently would share the same sentiment that there will be a select number of DATs that really make it the same way Micro Strategy has, right? And that that is going to be that is a huge opportunity. Difficult to say which one it's going to be. It's still early. Uh but the opportunity is clear. What's the better trade right now? is the better trade to buy a token in the onchain way and go buy Ethereum or go buy Salana or Hype or you pick your pick your token or is it better to go buy a

DAT that's using that exact same token? Well, so I guess there's there's a couple of answers to that, right? And my first answer is whatever you feel most comfortable with. Okay. I think sometimes in our crypto world, we get too much of a hey, if you're not doing cryptonative self-custody, you know, battling against the institutions. It it's just uncomfortable for I'd say 85% of the people just don't feel comfortable participating, right? And that is a deterrent for them to get involved. That's not what we want to do.

We I answer that with okay well what are you most comfortable participating in >> and let's go with that route okay um and so that's first question but from a price performance buying a token through cryptonative ways and holding that is very very different than buying a DAT it is completely different and so we need to make sure that that's baseline it's baseline a very different way to express your long-term trade.

Okay. So, I I um I think that the DATs are going to the the ones that aren't operated well likely be a component to sending us lower >> in that next cycle phrase that we were trying to time. I think that you don't have diamond hands. you don't have cryptonnative operators. People are doing it for a trade that I mean, if you look at the pipes and who's involved, they're doing it for a trade. Uh when that trade is over, and public equity investors are different than crypto investors, they're out. And there is no alignment to, oh, I feel loyal to this particular token, and I feel loyal to

this community, so I'm going to hold on to my bags. Sorry, guys. This is public equities. I'm in it for the trade. if I've made a return and generated alpha, I'm gone and I'm already looking for my next trade. So, it's very very important to know that you're you're oscillating between very different ends of this pendulum when you're trying to express these things. And it's it's unfortunately it's too early to say, but if you are looking to own, you know, if you're looking at Bitcoin and Ethereum, like go with some of the better named groups if you want to go the D that route. harder to say still on some of the edge, you know, on some of the edge tokens. And I think the last number that we saw was there's uh 25 DATs with non

Bitcoin in ETH as the treasury asset that they are >> 25. There's only 25. Wow. >> No. Yeah. Uh, sorry. There's 25 tokens. >> Oh, 25 tokens. Okay. Okay. 25 tokens. That's actually that's actually quite a few obviously like like Salana has has has has several and should I always feel so bad guys. I know you guys are going to yell at me in the comments that I'm talking too much about Bitcoin and ETH and not about Salana. Let's be clear. I'm also bullish on Salana. I think Salana does very well. I think we've got some room to go on Salana. My price target is still a thousand Salana sold for the cycle which feels high right now. But like so to everybody don't yell at me in the comments that I'm not talking about Salana enough. I love Salana guys. Uh but that's very

interesting. tokens. >> So, okay. So, and and and my guess is you're you would say that there will probably be more than 25 and more DATs coming in the next in like soon like every week there's going to be more which also >> Yeah, there's going to be more than less. There's definitely going to be more than less from here. uh the pace has slowed down but I mean just in since August there's been 32 billion of capital announced for DATs 32 billion and we're we're right in the you know week second and a half week of this month so there's still capital that is hungry for uh exposure to to DATs and to

crypto in this form um from here to the end of the year it's probably not going to be as significant But there's still going to be a number of groups and they're all going to come out as we were saying with the non- majors, right? And we're seeing more and more of those come out now because that appetite is there and this is a significant moment uh for public equity investors to outperform other indices. And that's why it it's until until the trade goes is not generating return, the trade is on, right? And it is it is interesting to know that some of these lockups, not everything had a lockup, but some have a lockups.

>> Those things are going to start coming off in October. >> So, just be careful because I tell everybody, particularly in crypto, if you aren't in the room when things are happening, you're not in the no. You know, Yeezy as an example as we open this thing, right? The people that were in the no, they made a lot of money. people that weren't they were the they were the alpha. >> Yeah. Yeah. Things happen real fast in crypto and it's easy to forget that and and that's why you got to decide what type of investor you are, right? And if you're the type that doesn't want to pay attention every day, which I want to be clear, all the power to you, right? Like

you got a life, a kid, a family, a job, other things that you're doing, great. then align your portfolio accordingly and and sit back and don't don't don't fret. Don't worry. If you want to be here every day, great. Then you can take a little bit more risk and be a little bit more active. But don't [ __ ] it up, guys. Just don't please don't [ __ ] it up, everybody. The opportunity is just like if we all I think we can all sit here a year from now and be in a very good place if you just be patient and don't get o over your skis and don't overlever yourself and don't try to get rich too quick too quick. We'll get there.

>> Well, it's it is important to note, you know, we talk about cycles and how like we're still pretty early in this trade, right? We're still pretty early in in these stories of crypto. And so if you're listening to to Milk Road today, like, you know, kudos to you. If you've you've participated and uh you've gotten beat up before, you know, totally understand. But, you know, we're in a totally different infrastructure and market environment for our industry. And if you're listening kind of first time and you're just trying to get used to and grounded to some of the terminology, like bravo to you because it sometimes participating in crypto is very intimidating and we need to do a better job of welcoming new market participants

like those listening today. and um you know take away some of the the intimidation and all the terminology and all the things that are happening um listening to these things like look you're early and if from here till 2030 you know I guess we're a consensus call saying that we're a million I literally do not know any other investment opportunity that has that type of a return profile usually it's a you know 10x or a zero >> right Bitcoin is not going to zero. I I it's it's not going to go to zero. So, we're we're saying from here down to 80 maybe and then up to a million. Like

there just aren't investments that exist today that have that return profile. So, you're early. You're early. Buy a little bit to get involved and so you're tracking it. But, you know, this is this is a great time to be involved. >> Wise words. Elliot, really appreciate you joining us today on the show. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks, Jay. Thanks for having me. Much appreciated. Enjoy. You know, don't worry about the easy token, guys. If you're still in it, you're wrecked. And uh you know, jump jump on that Milk Road uh website. Thanks. Thanks. I got to remind you guys, as always, none of today's episode is financial advice. I'm not your financial adviser. Elliot's not your financial adviser. If you need financial advice, you should speak to a professional. This episode is for

entertainment andformational purposes only. Thanks so much for tuning in. As Elliot said, check out the new milkroad.com site. Super super pumped about we were working really hard on it. And get yourself a discount for Milkro Pro happening right now. Have yourselves wicked awesome day. We'll see you back again tomorrow. If y'all are making swaps or trades right now, highly recommend you check out Milkroad Swap. This is a DEX that we built in partnership with Cow Protocol. Why did we build it? Not to make money, just honestly. until we could have a place to do our swaps for the lowest fees that we could find. This is the fees on Ethereum, Arbitum, and Bass are only.15% fees. Uh this is a huge difference from

uh other centralized exchanges that charge half a percent or even up to 1.2% fees on their swaps. Also, you can swap on Salana all at swap.mmillgrow.com. Check it out today. You won't be upset. and you can join me in my favorite place to make swaps on chain. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh. And if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game, we're going to also leave a link for Milk Road Pro. You get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what

we are buying. This is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto. One final note, this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice. Investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome