EDDC Team Meeting #11

Transcript

it's not a problem [Music] [Music] now um you know the first topic of

today's meeting is just going over a quick update uh ethereum due diligence um i'm gonna hand it over to phil in a second what i will say is um i have actually been working with uh super fizz's is it your niece or is it your cousin uh she's my niece niece so well we i've been working with super physicists to get some nice co-op design to uh encourage and incentivize people to participate to fill out um you know the community survey uh for community members to leave their reviews about safety pools to try to increase community engagement and so you know she came back with four or five different options i'm gonna post those

in the discord either later today or tomorrow so you guys can take a look uh see if you like any one of them and then we can pick one um and use it and that will be our pull out badge for incentivizing community engagement and then so from there i'll let kind of phil give us a quick update on the uh further due diligence yeah so it is a really quick update um i was waiting for more feedback and today got some feedback by jk which is um awesome um i worked that into the the spreadsheets um if anyone else wants to take a look at the spreadsheets feel

free to do so but um if not then i will go ahead and create the dedicated spreadsheets tomorrow i guess and try to push that forward the whole process um do you one more thought on how we can how we can get the general information about the sticking pools so that the part that is which was supposed to be done by the volunteers what do you guys think about that we also try to reach out to the staking pools themselves and ask them whether they can also provide these um information you're talking about that

initial layer of information um so but basically um this further due diligence process is more or less um uh two is a two-step process for for getting all the information and the one one part is more about general information and less digging into the architecture and trying to figure out whether everything is sound unsafe and for that part it might be helpful to just ask also the the um staking provider themselves because we we go ahead and and take um an evidence driven process

it doesn't hurt much to ask them at the end of the day we all just just gather facts and provide evidence and proofs and references to to that so um i guess that should be fine and they also have an incentive to to fill that out because i mean we can um give them a i don't know rating or in an evaluation faster so yeah and this these general questions are slightly different than the ones that we've already gotten answers for correct from like 10 or 11. yep yeah it's a little bit more in-depth um yeah

so i'm happy uh derek and i have been reaching out we've been emailing and messaging all the different signals to try to get more of those initial answers i'm happy to kind of say hey and could you also check out uh these kind of a little bit more in depth answers as well so i'm happy to do that with derrick to add that along to our current process yeah and and then um besides that we should reach out to to volunteers or not ask them um to also try to to to gather all this uh all the uh information um that that hurt um but just to push push it um forward i think

that might help to to get these staking pools themselves involved completely agree yeah i guess that's that's it i'm happy to to get more feedback but um if not by tomorrow um then i'll push forward and try to create the the the documents um make them ready to so that anyone can um fill them out um uh and then the the question is how do we reach out to to the to the sticking pools and um

to volunteers etc it is still i don't know is anyone um an opinion about that i can uh help out on the staking pool outreach um perspective um as long as we kind of and i'll go through your documentation today phil if we have like you know a short list of people that we need more information from i'll take that on and i can get started on that today sounds good welcome jk to the call how are you doing well sorry for the delay no problem and so um i wanted to circle back to one thing really quickly and i know that

colin and philip were discussing um vetting with pools but because madison is mobile he doesn't have the view and so i want to give him a quick follow-up of all the people that are here um so madison we have michael and vetica um phillip derrick colin myers and jk are all here in the room right now perfect awesome thank you guys for coming as always yeah jk i hope you're just talking about the the um that i uh appreciated your your feedback and i worked that in um thank you so much um and i had the idea that for um getting

pushing that that process forward that we also could reach out to these stacking pools themselves for the more general part since it is an evidence-driven process that shouldn't shouldn't hurt really sorry about my internet just like just like what berserk just for a second or so i missed your entire thing sorry can you can you uh say that again yeah i appreciate your your feedback um thank you so much um and um i will push uh getting any more feedback by tomorrow

and then i also had the idea that um we could also reach out to the staking pools themselves and and ask them whether they can fill out the spreadsheet for the more general information since it is an evidence-driven process that should be fine i guess sounds awesome terrific anything else on uh further due diligence bill um no i guess that's it and then do we want to briefly talk about you know let's briefly talk about how we're going to get volunteers because you're you're when you say

volunteers you're talking about volunteers from their community correct the last part i didn't get what do you mean about you are volunteers from their community correct yes um yeah so one one one um i mean one group can could be the the staking pools themselves um another group we can reach out to um are forks from the east staker community for example the educator group um yeah and then we we should just try to reach out to forks on all social media channels

um i don't know who's in in control of all those um accounts uh and so on um i i set up the uh the ethereum educators on i'm sorry the east stake or educators um so what i think would be a good idea i can ask them for a representative um because i don't there's no real leader there but we can identify one person as a leader to then be a liaison between um the eddc and that group so i think that will work well yeah that's a good idea and also um not only should we try to reach out to

volunteers for gather the information but um also to try to get some [Music] feedback on on the pools by existing users so um we should also try to um to try to um reach out to them as well i get i guess we can do so in the same um in the same post yeah you know the same man we've also posted in their discord channel saying hey uh any users want to comment on this uh you know provide feedback you can do so here yeah and then we could offer the po app there

as well right so we could say you can actually earn a po out through providing your feedback yeah and it doesn't make sense to put that to just um have a post also on the um website so to just to write it up um link to i don't know i don't know how how we get them um how do we onboard those volunteers but um yeah just to to streamline this this process of on getting them on board my only worries if we put it on the website uh you know people can definitely influence

those like user reviews right that would be my only concern i i think it's still worth it to happen on the website to get the feedback i'd rather have the feedback than not and just run the risk of getting you know someone posting you know ten different feedbacks acting like they're ten different people uh but that's my opinion i i think that we we do have a pretty interesting solution for this michael is getting really good at integrating co-app voting um and so that could be our civil resistance and co-apps are are fairly well vetted so that uh it would be very difficult to to fake information with them um i totally agree um with that we

shouldn't just put um the links to the spreadsheets on the website that's why i just said we need some kind of an onboarding process whether we use some kind of reputation or simple resistance mechanism with poep or [Music] bright id or i don't know or just go with i don't know discord handles and see whether they're um reputable um users um it's fine it's fine for me um yeah i am i just no don't know what the best process

is kind of lost the threat on that one i'm sorry so what is it that we want to solicit volunteers for exactly so so um so just to to um for for the part where we try to reach out to the existing users um the question is how do we onboard them and how do we um make sure that um that i don't know that um that not just one uh that there are any spamming or trolls coming in and just providing feedback gotcha yeah we can definitely yeah i think

that's a good idea i'm almost thinking if we there's there's no wrong solution i don't think and there's more than one way to do it but i'm almost thinking if we can have some sort of sign up on the website to solicit volunteers just in general to help vet for that secondary so after we do the initial evaluations of a staking pool to help you do like the the real deep dive into the due diligence and then we can also reach out to the respective staking pool subreddits and maybe solicit users there and say look we're you know say it's block sticking this week

we go to the block stick subreddit and their respective social media outlets ask for users maybe we set up a private discord chat room kind of vet out who's a real user or not i don't know what that looks like specifically and then kind of go from there and maybe do some user interviews is that kind of what you're thinking i don't know whether um i mean um i don't know whether we want to do some user interviews but um i mean i've created um a google form which it's just a basic information about what was the past performance of the poor were there any kind of

incidents and for for more um [Music] for claims that are more subjective i mean we could use the ether um as a way to to to to gather feedback on on the pools um i don't i don't want to have this manual process of or i mean there could be a lot of work if we just um having user interviews for every pool i mean this has become um a lot of work anyway i don't know if you want to expand that on on on having additional work

my vote is to mix the user interviews i do think it'll be uh too much work to handle i think just like having to fill out surveys or whatever answering questions however you want to frame it i think that's just a lot easier what i will say is uh i think we've agreed that we want some of this i think we can have a discussion throughout the week and discord about you know how we actually uh solicit that feedback on the website but i think we're definitely an agreement that we wanted to list that feedback via the website um and have those users fill out forms so what do you guys think because i want to make sure it gets the website and then uh any other items what do you guys think about having a discussion and discord

uh this week for how that could be done exactly and then next week saying this is how we're gonna do it what do you think about that approach sounds great yeah sounds good see not seen a lot of thumbs up madison i know you can't see that yeah hey yeah hey uh uh one thing uh so anything else on further due diligence phil and uh i guess that's it for perfect uh and then so i wanted to make sure that everyone has seen super fizz's uh time slot i filled it out i know other people have filled it out as well but i just want to make sure everyone's seen it uh you know we want to make this meeting time

as conducive to everyone as as possible so we're filling out the time sheet in order to figure out what times work best for everyone if you haven't filled it out uh please fill it out uh see if there's any update there because you had alluded to it a little bit earlier today in discord yeah yeah so i i was really looking for like a bifurcation where we would see you know two groups that were kind of 12 hours apart um that was at least was my assumption based on you know some people being well obviously just different time zones but there is no real bifurcation there's very much a uh an ebb and flow and so uh 4 p.m utc which is 30 minutes from now um jk is looking at

like so and forgive me so nine out of 11 people were okay with the call time at 10 a.m i think if we're going to [Music] purposefully expand this group then we're going to have to take us a leap of faith and then give people an opportunity to fill in so essentially how can we how can we schedule a meeting time with people who can't be here if that makes any sense so um i think that what i'm what i'm thinking

is we should probably flip back and forth between uh 1600 utc and 400 you and and four o'clock utc so uh for me for example that would be 10 a.m and 10 p.m um and that that will exclude some users on some calls phil talk to me what are you you're you're smirking like your face i mean it's the same situation jk is in so okay what is uh what is 4am utc for you uh 5 am oh sorry i mean uh [Laughter]

my sleep sleeping schedule is screwed up anyway so um you and jk are in the same time zone oh you're just same situation okay yeah yeah same situation yeah almost okay yeah here's what i like to do and it's difficult because i really like i said i hoped that that survey would make it obvious that there were two perfect times to meet um philip and jk if you two can coordinate and let the rest of the group know one time that works for you two and that is because you all are already making uh you're already going out of your way to

make this work and so you're the people we want to accommodate um and so if if you're willing to meet us now then we need to be willing to meet you so philip and jk if you two will will come together find a time that works for both of you that will be our alternate time meeting and we will flip back and forth uh i'll make it very very easy i'm okay with uh what was it uh 4pm utc because uh because yeah i know because like uh one day that's like one am my time and i keep wanting my time is much better than phil's 5 a.m because i i i can't even remember when i was awake at 5 00 a.m last yeah it's as i kind of said it's difficult

i i'm asking you to represent korea i guess is what i mean um and not i know that you're willing but if we're going to have global members then we need to have a time that works globally um so that we can flip back and forth uh as i said i do think those might be 12 hours apart that makes kind of logical sense um does anybody else have a thought on it i just i didn't get this the data from the survey that i thought would give me the answer i agree super faith i completely agree with your approach i do think we need to be as accommodating jk and phil as we possibly can uh and and having them come up with an

alternate time that works you know best for them and having us work around that i think it makes complete sense okay uh so we'll take it out of data and take it into the world of common sense and try and uh see if we can build build times based on common sense and then if we end up going back to the data later that'll work um and so i will i'll continue to make it my responsibility i'm going to steer away from this data approach and i will be in in contact with you guys this week to schedule the time for next week's meeting which will be obtuse for some people uh

let's just have just know that in advance thanks for doing this work super fast i know it's uh it's always a pain to figure out all the scheduling i thought it would be easier honestly i was like oh yeah we'll see we'll see two spikes we'll plan it those two hours and everyone will be happy but no yeah um awesome so any other uh anything else before we get to the website display exhibit are are we are we the team is it the right time to talk about um our regard for pools who are staked multiple times

i i'm uncomfortable approaching the topic because i i'm just not a uh you know i'm a bridge builder and i i don't think that's contrary to bridge building but we do need to acknowledge that um some pools have been staked more than one i've been i'm sorry slashed multiple times and should we uh should we what should our process for discussing that look like yeah well i definitely think i think we agreed last week and i we have that information posted on the website so let's start there like we should keep track of all the slashing events tied to a stake in pool

have information regarding those flashing events on that stick and full stage or maybe a special section for you know slashing events and listings well however we do it we agreed uh last to have it on the website uh what else do people think we should do so um we should try to keep track of all the slashings and also what the reason was for for that so that we can um create educational material out of it so that that that it is just not just a finger pointing to to the pools but also lessons learned out of it and also maybe point towards

um their postmortems or so yeah yep i would agree i would like to see we sort of as a community we've done it already but formerly on the site i'd like to see a spot if and when there are slashings for the respective pools for there to be a full triage follow-up after doesn't necessarily have to require the staking pool themselves obviously we'll welcome their whatever they want to market in terms of what happened but i think it's important that whenever a slashing happens that we should as a group have a specific meeting addressing what had happened in our perspective of that and documented on the site

so that it's at least there's at least some sort of trail and ultimately reputations built on these on these pools on the site it's important for me that we work to be as collaborative with the pools as possible uh i i have said it numerous times on reddit and twitter this is not an opportunity for pitchforks this is an opportunity for us to support that team to get running smoothly while acknowledging that there are some operation difficulties um i think that both things can happen we need to resist that community

temptation to say so and so is a bad pool because this happened i think the approach is um this happened and we need to as due diligence providers we need to document it but then also offer that pool an opportunity to talk to us about what they're doing to grow and change that really benefits everyone so instead of us from the outside looking at a pool and saying this is what happened i think we invite those people in and give them a chance to to publicly say to do a public post mortem i guess um that gives all of us a growth experience

uh i don't know how others feel about that but that seems to me to be the right direction one thing i think um at least um this this goes um in extension with something i've opined on on the discord chat but one thing i think that would be nice um immediately after any slashing has happened is actually send out at least some sort of signaling to the community about the potential root cause because like some people like i've seen a lot of panic from the community about like what the cause is and whether they should be worried about getting slashing and so at the very least you know even without waiting for the postmortem just like sending out just like a you know without any just like objectively saying oh clients are good network is good

nothing else is wrong on that end it's potentially just the pool's problem let's wait for a postmortem i think like some sort of signaling like that uh like standard i think might be really helpful to set up yeah that's a really good idea especially since then at least in in the past there were pools which were slashed and didn't communicate at all within the next 48 hours and the users were freaking out i wonder if we might build a collaboration with a telegram bot operator of the slashings i don't know how many of you follow that telegram bot but if we could so there's for those who don't know there's a telegram bot

that sends a message every time there's a slashing event it might be in all of our shared best interests to collaborate with that bot operator so that we have a six-word description of the slashing afterwards uh so that people don't have to dig deep and investigate to find out what's going on uh if if anyone knows that bot operator if you will just have them maybe reach out to us or uh i'll do some investigation can you share the um the link to the bot um on discord i i don't have it handy but um i will i will get it today uh it is it's an awesome i find out about slashings first from that bot uh

and then i follow up so uh it would be a good collaboration yeah i think that makes a lot of sense um so okay let's imagine what this would look like uh the bot you know we're collaborating with the bot it says that there's a slashing uh what information does the bot provide when it says there's a flashing just that there is a slashing right it's very minimal information it's uh essentially uh i believe it's two pieces of information it is the the index of the slash uh validator and the index of the validator that did

the slashing i believe that's uh all that it provides uh and in some cases in our recent slashings it will be a a page i'm showing a it'll be a page full of index numbers um which indicates you know there's been a massive slashing uh it would be helpful i believe to everyone to just follow that up with um x pool was slashed misconfiguration is you know or mitigation is in process so that it gives everyone that like jk said especially the new users or i'm sorry the home stakers with maybe one or two validators

uh all begin to wonder if this has something to do with their setup are they at risk and it is it's becoming a pr opportunity for us to reassure these home users that this is not something that's going to happen to them is it possible okay sorry oh i was just quickly add is it possible to get the client teams to also collaborate on this and like um give us like a uh you know green light yellow light depending on what they're seeing on sort of their performance and communicating whether or not there's any uh client uh level potential issues

i think a client dashboard of would be great the it does give me the the slight hesitation that there haven't been any client problems um i do think a client dashboard makes sense but if you have a static page that never seems to change uh then is it really a reference um you know so amazon goes down twice a year and so we know we need to go check that aws down detector but with the clients uh if we haven't had a history of problems oh i do know we can do uh we have the east staker cc or the e-staker tv channel

we can add a health indicator to that page very easily that shows four clients and a green light or green light yellow light or red light and as we know it will always show likely show green light but people are already driving to the page anyway so it's not a single it's not a single use page it has wider value than that yeah i think it's that green light that's really important to really give the confidence to people to go to reference whenever they see slashing just know like oh no need to worry about the clients basically yes good do you have a note for that michael oh great good awesome is there anything else we should

discuss about flashing and publishing about flashing i i just mentioned something that many people may not be aware of and i just want to follow up with that east staker has a a web page now a twitch stream of all of the clients running in real time so anyone who's curious can go to that uh and and just look and see the beacon chains running michael do you wanna to tell how people can find that easily yep uh it's on our website esticcare.cc and on the main navigation menu you just click on estaker.tv and that will link you right over to the live stream awesome well if you don't have anything

else on flash let's move on to the website uh exhibit so i think michael this is uh you take it away yep okay so uh just admittedly this has been a bit of a weird couple weeks for me so i haven't uh probably put as much time into this as obviously it should have that being said i do have something to actually present today so let me share my screen real quick and just provide some updates as to what's going on here i'm sure they're still recording one moment sorry gentlemen

okay so uh most of this is uh not new we've seen this part last time i sort of presented the layout of the website what i've done here is [Music] changed out the stock information if you will with um actual information so i've edited this is uh just a rough template of what i think each staking pool should [Music] display it starts with our actual evaluation of the staking pool for the meeting edit it down to just that individual staking pool so in this case it's

blocks then it goes into the questionnaire that we initially provided them and gone over in the video our questions and their answers and then as effectively where i've stopped so at the bottom here we would just give like a a one two paragraph summary of what our findings were of the staking pool uh the good bad points and then the the average here so uh or not average in the sense of the what we're going to rate them as an arbitrary score in relation to the services that they provide

so um obviously this is fairly bare bones but what i'd like to expand on here is we will put the um well this is also where they like to open up for discussion um to the group but also phil this would be a good question for you as well in terms of how you would like to see the additional due diligence displayed and how we as a group think the information will be best parsed in digestible to new users so i'm almost thinking that um [Music] from the top here we we kind of keep it

the same where we link people in with the video the very generic questions and then as the page goes down the more in depth we go so maybe that is the further due diligence in terms of like really what has been vetted and what information is found i would also argue that maybe in between the video link and the actual questionnaire if there are slashings for that respective pool that we put them on top so that they're easily accessible and viewable i think that's important for those slashings to be front and center at least to offer kind of coming full circle what we talked about yes slashings are a very negative

experience so we want to make sure that the reasons for those slashings whether technical otherwise are front and center is to reinforce whatever reputation that pool has um additionally you know i will put our sort of company ethos up top here and then obviously i'm thinking for the navigation on top some sort of calls to action in terms of the soliciting others for help or offering some sort of platform for pools in the future to contact us so it's not always necessarily on us to

proactively go out and search for pools that's kind of what i'm thinking here so i mean that's really it there's not too much here to kind of bite into i will be again not to make excuses here it has been busy but that being said the obligations that have kept me from putting time into this platform are passed now so this is the um the priority at the moment in terms of my work so uh i will be focusing on that today and the rest of the week but any initial feedback um from the group at this point one of the one of the questions that i

had asked last week and i forgot to post it in discord but um are we going to try to put a like a capture link for the questionnaire on the site um because then it's you know if if we have the questionnaire like the google form embedded into the site then you know we can stop manually pushing people the form and we can start you know proactively if you will or you know however you want to call it like using twitter and other mediums of exchange and pushing people into the site and then they can fill everything out through the site and it would save us a lot of time and the integration because it's already a google sheet should be pretty straightforward i don't know how what you use to make the

site um but just just wanted to make that comment and get your thoughts about it yep that's a great idea we can definitely sort of embed that functionality into the site to save us some work in fact i'll start doing that this week too i think that that just makes sense anytime we can save ourselves some manual labor here we might as well cool yeah and i also think it's a way for us to like get information on people that we don't know about uh i kind of foresee this world of you know i mean we've seen it with the d5 space and i think ethereum's bridging more into that especially now that pooled staking is open source and

there's going to be a lot of people tooling around and there will be so many new and different pools that are popping up and we won't be able to stay on top of all them nor should we really so we're going to end up in a situation where they're going to be coming to us which works in our advantage so we can make it easier for both parties if we can just embed that and then we can update it and we can automate it we can do many things once it gets embedded um i just think that'll be helpful um as we'll probably see loads of different projects pop up over the next call at six to 12 months and you know for the foreseeable future as well agreed yes and inbound is always easier than outbound or at least i would imagine that would

apply to this too yeah it definitely is what are we thinking for uh one of the things i i was sort of wrestling with when compiling the information is what do we want to consider a minimum level threshold for information to publish for a staking pool obviously the the further due diligence per staking service is going to take a while so what yeah i guess i'll just leave it there so so we've agreed in past meetings that as long as we get those initial answers there's ones that we've gone over for

example uh pool by pool once we get those initial answers we can publish those and then we leave it there with caveats saying these answers have been provided by the staking pools themselves uh they haven't gone through our further due diligence process yet we wanted to make sure that you know the information is there but you know this hasn't been verified yet so that's what we've discussed and agreed upon in previous videos do we hold off then on just to um be very specific then that that makes sense until that um further due diligence has been published on respective staking pool do we then hold off on a formal rating

or do we provide an initial rating number and color pro based on that um the the initial questionnaire yeah so we we have what we agreed on so far is that we do provide the initial rating but at that asterisk saying this rating is subject to change based on the further due diligence process okay okay sounds good um just a few thoughts on on the whole topic um so i think that's this website looks great um there is um the trade-off between comparing

different pools and taking a look at a specific pool just by how we visualize all the information then there is the idea which i have that not only not not maybe instead of having this good bad but um additionally we could also have a recommendation what is the target targeted group audience or user so with every architecture there's certain trade-offs and um [Music] every different architecture targets have has a different target group

and what it what matters is finding the deep solution that that fits for the specific user um so that might be also at the end we can make maybe make a recommendation on um what this architecture is good for i don't know if little lido i don't know how to pronounce it um is good for users they want to keep liquidity but um can live with certain trade-offs like i don't know additional um smart contract risks or whatever um and on the part regarding the rating i

think it is it is fairly possible to um keep the same um how do you say um that we can expand on the um current format that which is just based on the answers provided by the staking providers and just expand on that maybe link to that would be ideal in my opinion to a full report where all this different kind of aspects are in there maybe maybe a pdf or maybe linked to the um to the google spreadsheets and then have it have a similar evaluation method on on the further due diligence as we

have with the current answers so that we can just as we get this further due diligence reportings in that we can just um update it and just make clear that this is working work in progress for for those evaluations which don't have currently i don't know this further due diligence process okay sounds good awesome any other comments on the website uh michael you know i'd love to see it as well so if you just share the link i don't know if you have yet

discord or same link i have the link to the website so uh i'll i'll check it out as well i'm excited to take a look awesome yep i'll share that out to you if you don't have it any other comments that people want to make new topics etc i'll take the uh the silence as a negative then uh very medicine just one thing um so just two things i think uh from my end um but it's just preliminary so i just wanted to just give a heads up though um one thing is uh first is um

so i don't know um how many have uh seen this but uh we're we've been working uh so one of our teammates uh daniel huang has been working on uh decentralization transparency and he's uh posted something around this and he's been coordinated some initiatives around this uh behind the scenes right now but one of the conclusions that uh he and i reached i mean he's reached is that it'd be ideal for someone like eat steak or edgc to like potentially host um some of the um data that comes out data that's put together around it um and i don't know if this has been discussed before yet but i just want to bring that out there um just to make

sure that um this is something we have been working on but like i'll bring out more details as this transpires a bit more but a follow-up to that is also we've been uh discussing with the ef around grants around um this piece um but was thinking maybe if um you know maybe if this uh transparency sort of uh dashboard or you know well whatever it will look like if that gets hosted by edd story staker maybe then also we could also ask for a grant to like help out with the hosting cost of it um but yeah um so just wanted to put that out there just to see whether or not like if you guys have any thoughts on it if

you guys are against it or you know i don't know what this is i appreciate you bringing this up and actually uh early on we did say that our scope might extend and probably will extend beyond just uh staking for example and to look at things like decentralization across the ecosystem so i think this does make complete sense um i do you know i would love for it to be a part of the edc eddc um but i'm interested to hear what other members think i think it holds a lot of potential um daniel and i had a discussion about

about one of the data points that we weren't sure would fit but in terms of an overall transparency i think any any information that we can host and distribute to the community is is definitely going to be valuable um michael is our is our web services provider so i if if he's if he's down with that then i i say we go full steam ahead yeah i'm all for it i mean i think it's echoing not saying anything new here but i'm just echoing what everyone else has said i think the the value is definitely there to share amongst the community and it's we've got the tools so we might as well

use them and i i think let's uh get the information out there if we have it i i said something elusive and that's not fair to people who don't know the context so i want to expand on that daniel and i had a discussion about let me think just one moment about the right way to to say this to encourage all of the pools to identify themselves on chain so that we could know through uh through using graffiti so we could know very quickly uh what their metrics are like and so that we could know uh if there was an event who to talk to about it

um after after talking about that for some time the ultimate conclusion was that while it is something that we would like to encourage all of the pools to claim their their block proposals that it's not anything we want to pressure pools to do because of uh things like country jurisdictions because of censorship because of the need for plausible deniability to say for for a pool operating under duress to be able to um have that anonymity should they choose and i think given the balance of those things while we do want transparency we do want to know the

activities of pools that privacy and resilience are a higher priority and i i just i wanted to say that because i alluded to it a few minutes ago and i what i don't want to do is is kind of have like this background knowledge that i'm not i'm not sharing yeah and i'm sorry if it was like sort of out of the blue but um yeah he's been working on that uh behind the scenes a bit uh and i i guess i really wanted to like bring uh i mean we're trying to put together a better proposal around this so that like we could have a more productive discussion but after concluding with him that like maybe it um whoever hosts this like while we were thinking about what he was thinking about who would host this like he reached the natural conclusion that it just made sense for

like uh like an entity like e-staker or eddc to host it and so like that's why i just wanted to bring it up and just give you a heads up yeah so number one yes i think it is an absolutely incredible idea i do want to host it um the mistake that i made in fact i made it again just now is focusing on one tiny drop in the sand when overall it is an absolutely incredible and welcome idea uh so i want i want to make sure i'm seeing the forest and not the trees and so yes i do think uh a transparency report a transparency what are we calling it dashboard would be a a very valuable addition not just for the community but also

something that would legitimize all of our work so yeah okay can you elaborate real quick on what kind of topics would be covered within such a report yeah so um so there is going to be a write-up that is being put into works um so daniel is talking has a few metrics that he's putting together with elias um elias amos he's uh yeah he he's uh he's with bison trails right now but he's done some incredible work around um i mean he's actually got in the grant around um i believe the midasha data challenge so like he's he's pretty well in the d weeds with like how to

analyze the data so they're both discussing on some metrics that you could pull out uh from the uh from the beacon chain right now to show how decentralized it is um they're like talking about uh nakamoto coefficient uh they're also talking about like um there's a few metrics you mentioned but you know i don't want to i don't want to you know mistakenly put out something out there that's not relevant but uh definitely we'll have more concrete sort of uh materials out in uh and in this week or next good just uh just to give quick quick thoughts there um i've been trying to solve uh at consensus we have been trying to

solve for fragmentation problems and staking when it comes to like information but also like the action of staking our conclusion in this has resulted in that it's better to have aggregation but a wide variety of places to stake for the means of decentralization but when it comes to like information and transparency we kind of look at it like a block explorer uh from that perspective like it's fragmentation is a problem for users and if we can put diligence information or transparency information inside of one platform we've done user testing on this and we found it to be more effective for the community

um so it's kind of a trade-off of like you know uh like removing fragmentation and the action of staking while trying to not create centralization it's too early for that but when it comes to information sharing uh decreasing fragmentation is something that we found to benefit decentralization um so i think that's a really good idea so we're uh it seems like we're all agreed um you know we are at the hour so uh someone holds you guys for too long afterwards um i think we should continue the discussion in the discord for how that actually looks what are the next steps

there but uh thank you all for coming thank you guys thank you thank you thanks for hosting remotely medicine cheers everyone thank you for the understanding you