EDDC Meeting #16

Transcript

hey how's it going everyone it's going well people are still joining which is good super fizz did michael give you did he set something up with you to show up the website or am i supposed to uh uh no wait so we spoke about it um uh i'm i know that he has a prior obligation today um and i um asked him when we might expect a final product um and he's he has garen a final product he is uh promised a

a launch candidate on february 10th so gotcha um he he will be here to i think he's just had some some hiccups with it some not being happy with the design and you know how you kind of um put off those projects that aren't rewarding you yeah um and so i think he's uh ready to get it wrapped up and have it for us on the 10th gotcha that was my bad i misread the discord message i thought that maybe he had passed it along or someone presented today so that's my bad all right so we'll get started then

i will pull up the schedule which can be found in the the meeting um calendar invite uh phil or yes you've been very active well hold on do we still have him oh yeah phil's still here perfect uh very vibrant just couldn't see you on the zoom thing you've been very active on the further due diligence uh discord i'd recommend everyone kind of go check that out right now if they haven't had a chance um do you want to give us an update there it seems like the action items from you and james are we still need uh and this is something that super fizz and i can work on

um the organization around the poep is that correct um yes that is true and if em if everyone who feels like um he has some that he has some time to look at the documents once more that would be helpful um so i would feel more confident in pushing this forward if i would get more feedback on the documents so far so far um a gym um gave me some some uh feedback um on the spreadsheets

um and uh would be would be helpful if um if anyone else find some time to to look at it besides that it's true that after after that we would need to create some kind of incentive for the volunteers and that might be um a po app or some some sort of um and we would need to create the dedicated spreadsheets um and and forms and then send them out to to the um to the volunteers and existing users

which we also need to um identify i guess yeah awesome so you know in summary guys please take a look at the uh at the further due diligence channel the last channel in our discord you'll find some links to spreadsheets and google forms that have been posted by phil you'll see some discussions that are happening there please check out those documents and uh give phil some feedback i can do what is the discord link don't think

i'm in there we gotta get yeah that's uh felix that's our bad we'll uh work on you getting you that discord link that's where all the action happens um and you'll find almost the conversations there uh hey madison can we can can we have felix do an intro real quick i think this is his first time on yeah absolutely yeah sure uh sorry actually i think i missed the last one where i was supposed to maybe do the intro so yeah here i am i'm felix lodge i work with cores1 who is basically a staking provider on a lot of different networks i think around 16 now and we also run each two validators

as part of lido's validator set and yeah happy to to be on here and hear what you guys have been up to i was invited basically by uh colin to to join this and i also filled out this form already i i think i didn't find the discord yet i think and i'm i'm excited to also join that and and see how how i can contribute to this effort welcome felix if i could get you to post your discord username in the zoom chat then we can get you plugged in i'll send you a friend request hey felix uh you said you said you're part of lido as well yeah exactly like i know here i see jk

here so uh yeah we're one of the initial node operators on lido um exactly so that's basically like most of the e2 validators we're running right now is through through lido you know i can ask you to do a favor right off the bat uh if you don't mind so we've been sending out this due diligence form to kind of all the different staking groups i've sent it to lido i think twice and to my knowledge they have not gone back to us with the answers um so let's go from the top uh how familiar have you watched any of our prior videos by any chance i i have to admit i haven't i did see

this form though and i filled it out for us but essentially i filled it out to some extent for lighter too i think because that's like how we run the validators so if you check my response i think it could somewhat count towards lido um yep so i'm gonna go through our process because i think it's gonna you know it's important to go through how we're doing this so right now uh we're reaching out to different uh staking pools uh with this survey and you've seen the survey since you filled it out right and uh we are then getting their answers and then having meetings and effectively rating their survey

answers ourselves as a committee uh red light green light yellow light by answer um and we're taking it at face value initially so we're just acting like okay they've given us the truthful answers they've answered these to the best of their ability we're going to treat them as if they are truthful then um we then moved that process into a further due diligence process led by phil here and he uh in his uh small group and i encourage you know this is a great way that you could add a lot of value too because it's uh it's oriented towards the more technical members of the team who can go through and really analyze and get into the nitty-gritty

of what these staking pools are doing and if they're saying what they're you know if they're doing what they say they are doing we then have this due diligence process to effectively double check all the answers that were provided by the staking pools to make sure to verify effectively that uh that they are correct and also to look for other things such as you know has there been any slashing events or what do current customers think about these uh different staking pools etc and then you know right now our process is we're actually going to initially publish the um the the red light green light yellow light rating that still hasn't gone through further due diligence with a asterisk saying

hey we're still looking at these these aren't the full you know flesh diligence process but we wanted to get them out there for the public as soon as possible so we're going to add that to the website and they'll also be in further section once we do that due diligence on these validator pools uh staking pools um to then have a section about that on the website as well so does that all make sense so far congratulations step in correct me if i'm wrong up thorston is on the waiting room hold on okay yeah thanks so much for uh filling me in on this that's that sounds really good and i think it makes a lot of sense right there's a lot of confusion about like what exactly people are doing and differences in what they claim and what is actually happening so

um yeah happy to kind of clear that up and provide my input there and that would be great so that's a very key area and i know phil would love and appreciate the help in the further due diligence channel um so one of the things the action items there is taking a look at his process which is looking through his documents and giving feedback to phil on that uh that's one way to like really uh you know contribute uh right away another area is that i've been having problems getting uh other staking pools uh and we have a list i can get to you to effectively respond to the survey i kind of alluded to it earlier and i don't know if your relationships

with the other people who work at the staking pools maybe they'll respond a little bit better uh to to someone like yourself rather than myself um that would be another area of help right now i'm kind of banking on once these evaluations for their competitors are posted publicly that they're going to be more incentivized to get back to me with answers uh but another way to do it is you know effectively um have someone ask them those questions or ask them to fill out the survey uh who's a little bit closer to them and who they probably already know a bit better that's goes for anyone by the way if anyone uh is familiar with these staking pools and i'll i'll make sure to post a list of the ones that we don't have and if anyone has a relationship with the people with the operators themselves

it would be very very helpful if we could post if you could send them the survey because i think that'll increase our chances of them responding positively and effectively filling out the survey awesome awesome so uh you know michael's not here to present on the website uh those are the only two uh oh the third item i want to bring up quickly is you know there's a video uh michael laid out that video outline uh i think we've gotten three four maybe in right now uh it'd be really really it's really important that

we post those videos effectively it's a video explaining you know who you are and you know what's your role on the eddc uh that'll allow it'll it'll personalize this entire experience it'll make us more approachable uh it's really important for transparency purposes so please do make that video i actually think you know what i'm going to do because i think it keeps on getting lost uh you know i hate to do this but i do think it's necessary we're going to create a new channel called uh video videos for website and i'm going to find michael's um original post on what we need i'm going to post it there and then

please post your video upload your video if you can into this videos for website uh channel uh if it's you know you can compress the file if it's too large that's what i did personally but if it's really too big just send it directly to michael um his email is in the calendar invite it's in vedica his his discord name's in vedica as well so you can dm them that way is it is it fair to uh say let's put a deadline on that for the week after uh we deploy the website so the site should go up on the 10th and then we could look for those videos to be wrapped up by the 17th i think that's a great idea and so one of the things i haven't done

uh i gave my video directly to michael but i'll go ahead and post it on this channel as well so that people who haven't done it will have a frame of reference to say aha that's kind of what other people look like and i can make mine look a little bit like that if that if that helps but that's a great idea i'll also do the same uh it's you know this is this is not it doesn't need to be polished doesn't need to be the most polished thing uh you'll see from my video i'm sure superfiz is more polished than mine so maybe you go off of his a little bit but uh mine's but it's not too polished so there's no like don't be spending an hour writing down a script and like practicing in the mirror

just like you know just do it in five minutes and it's good right we can always update it later it's more important just to have our faces have the videos up there to kind of personalize the experience once we go live with these ratings uh than it is to have the most pitch perfect uh clean uh videos for all of us hey madison uh with the videos can um would you need that from like all the newcomers as well uh we'd love yes absolutely like well you know yes it's the answer you know we'd love to have you you're part of the committee now we really do view you guys as part of the committee so uh having that brief introduction of who you are and you know what you've been doing on the committee i think is very important

for transparency purposes unless anyone has any objections yeah super fizz i would just like to point out that for for the new people while we haven't haven't completely set the stage we view everyone that participates as a full and complete first class participant the only um the only caveats to that are that there are some things that are um that end up being more complicated that is if that you should not have access to competitor information or access or you should recuse yourself from any conversations that that could have a negative impact on your competitors and that ends up being a self-control kind of thing but we

we're not um we're not first-class citizens and then pool or stake representatives we are all the same uh the same level of participant here agreed for anyone who's new i talked about it earlier but it'd be nice if you could like just raise your hand now and volunteer would anyone be willing to asks some of their you know you know colleagues at other staking pools etc for the answer these questions and if you think that's a bad idea because they're gonna get you know a little uh testy about it that that i understand the answer as well

no um i think it's perfectly perfectly fair uh i mean uh you know felix and i go way back already like we know each other so like we have a certain amount of trust i think uh and so i think the same goes for any of the validators that like we've been in the industry with for a while um so like i'll definitely reach out a bit more to like um some of the chinese i think validators that are on east two as well um so yeah i'll i'll get a bit more aggressive on these that's perfect and that's perfect so i'll send you a list of some of the ones that haven't responded to us as well but additionally we didn't cover all of them i'm sure you know for example of a validator pools that we haven't thought of so that's a great area

if you think of a validator pool that even we haven't thought of that's not on our list we still want their answers you can find i think it's in the uh it's pinned on the pool evaluation criteria page if i remember correctly super fast do you remember where we put that or it's on general i'm sorry i'm adding permissions what was the question uh looking oh no you the original the vetting data request form is a pinned on general so you can actually send them that request form uh via a general via the form that's coming from general and they can answer those questions and then we'll show up that way so it's on a pin message there i can go ahead and post that in the

discord chat as well uh but let's all remember that the discord chat wipes after the call oh you're talking about the zoom meeting chat yep sorry so many nope no problem hey guys i have a good question about the the website um just looking through the channels i was curious uh if uh you know i could find more information if if there's maybe a like a jira board or a trello board or some some sort of uh um or even designs that i can take a look at help out with from a product level or maybe even a development level um i know someone mentioned that the person

working on it's not here but uh anyway i can take a look at that uh async would be great i'll be glad to pull you guys into a uh room together and then so that's michael or anvedica and you guys can collaborate there if that works cool sounds good yep and we do have something it's eatsdc.org you can see it now if you go to etdc.org and i'll uh i'll just copy paste it the link and put it into the zoom call chat and this is good for especially for all the newcomers just to check out what we have currently um it's obviously bare bones uh the big kind of piece is coming uh next week

which is the the initial evaluations we did for the website uh i do think that having another person will work with michael might be very beneficial um just just for you know division of labor kind of purposes uh i think it will go uh more efficiently so i think that's uh that that would be very very helpful i'm sure he'd really appreciate it as well sounds good i already like the uh the initial landing page though that's nice awesome so does anyone else have other items they want to bring up because that's the the main stuff really it's we need help on uh getting the staking pools to

answer our questions we need help on the further due diligence which can be found in that further due diligence discord uh everyone needs to upload their videos um and the next week will be a big week because we'll actually evaluate and check out and give feedback on the website with our initial uh evaluations that we did in december uh on the website um do we have a some kind of list where we can see um which pool's already filled out the the form yes provided the answers so the where the where you can find that is if

you go to general the general channel and you go to pin messages oh pin messages yep four different links here uh and the starting on the second one is when we get the the responses and that'll give you an idea of who's responded so far okay do we have a list um on the pools that we reached out and that they and which haven't responded so far i can and uh we have some sort of a list it's not as organized as this one but i can work on getting that more organized um and how do we have a process um on how do we decide on which pool we

reach out to because i'm currently looking at them at this list on beacon chain um beacon j dot ion and it's quite long um now and i don't think that we've reached out to all of them um how do we prioritize i like that process better than the process we came up with internally initially it was like and i don't know if that list was out there when we initially started this process it was okay let's name all the different staking pools we can off the top of our heads and let's reach out that way uh i like

your idea so if you don't mind posting that link in the general channel uh so then we can access that uh i think that would be a more efficient way to and more comprehensive way to get more answers from various stinking pools it's a good suggestion i appreciate that bill yeah i mean the list is quite long i don't know whether we want to reach out to all of them um i don't know what kind of criteria we can can can use to select the ones that we want to reach out to i don't know there isn't so far there is not the amount that is staked

but yeah i don't know i mean we can we can also reach out to all of one thing we could do it hey colin i think we can hear you now you're uh went in and out for a quick one yeah yeah sorry i had bad service one thing we could do is like if all these taking pools i would assume they had a minimum have like twitter um we could just through means of eatstaker through meanings of phil or anyone individually um we could just do a twitter shout out with the intake form and say like hey look here's a deadline

if you want to be included in our diligence process it will tag all of them and then it's up to them to kind of take take the action um i think it's important to try to get in as many as possible but again like the enhanced due diligence has proved to be necessary but also extremely thick and time consuming so maybe there's a rule even that's you know we're only looking at the the largest 25 or the largest 15 and that could be based on deposits or any type of data that that we have if we have any but if we want to get all their attraction we could just blast something on twitter and then it's it's up to them um i i'll i'll take a look at the list i haven't seen the updated list but it'd

like it from a low scope perspective i think that's probably the best way to do it yeah so i 100 agree with colin that uh blasting it and soliciting them that through that channel to do to fill out would be ideal i'm looking at the list right now i do think it is doable to do all of them i think we probably have a quarter of them uh done already um that'd be my guess but i'm interested to hear what you know everyone else says after they look at it um there's also the the idea that we could ask buddha if they can

um put the link to the forum or or maybe send them after they after after a pool requested to be um to be included on their list that they um get the link to the forum so that we don't need to reach out to the pools that sign up on on that list um by ourselves but they fill out the form instead so i i assume that more pools over time will will be added to this list and so this way we don't need to constantly um really look at it and see whether the

new ones yeah so he says beacon uh buddha operates this website i mean he works for for for for beacon chain as far as i know hey phil let me jump in a little of that i'm although i've recused from the blocking um i mean the staking pool evaluation um i talked to buddha quite a bit about that page but it's been over two months so i don't have a good update but what he told me at the time and i was actually giving him feedback to update some stuff on some of the ones on his list is there just people who voluntarily go in they don't have a comprehensive process to get it and they don't do any vetting he was just throwing him in there because as part of his responsibility

um with with beacon you know chain.ian that he wanted to move forward and have that kind of out there but he didn't seem to have any process um at the time that was two months ago so if any of you are closer to him that's cool but if not be aware that that was what my understanding was two months ago i mean sorry phil go ahead um i mean that's that's totally fine that they don't vet the the data that um those folks put in there um but i mean nonetheless we could just try to sneak um our form in into the process and then we get some some answers um by

all of the all of those parties that submit some some some data to their website um yeah i don't know whether whether they're just up for but just was an idea no i i think it's a great idea personally if anyone has you know uh i think it's worth to get the information look if it's if it's if if they end up not being real staking pools right we can google around about it just to like cross verify oh this isn't this didn't get off the ground initially submitted to the website it's not legit but i do think it's get that would that would give us a lot more information and a lot easier format uh i will reach out to buddha unless anyone has

a protest about uh asking him to um put this on the site unless someone else thinks they can they can sell the proposition better than i can which make would make sense i'm not i'm not like his best friend or you know we're friendly but you know we um questioned quickly um we're going to have an intake uh portion of the site correctly so like we can just begin to to channel people into the site and they can fill out the questionnaire through the site is that like mvp coming out in production or is that like on the to-do list so i actually don't think we've we've talked about having the form directly on the site i was thinking along the same lines i completely agree i think that's an excellent idea what i would do is i

would uh i would call in if you could literally post that idea on the top domain tag michael this second uh i think he'll be able to do that uh the the product the first version of the site with all the evaluations etc should be done by next week is what michael has said go ahead no that's all i got i'm undelayed my bad okay gotcha um just to comment on like um because someone mentioned on like where we captured the top ones at the very least i just did a quick

check on like the top ones that actually at least identified themselves publicly i think the only two that we might be missing right now are the uh all nodes uh guy and then guys and then uh cream uh finance so those two i think we we might want to capture at the very least uh for the top uh validated validator crew right now on these it's useful information thank you yeah cream cream for sure that's uh that's that's a good one actually didn't realize we didn't have them awesome so you know we'll work on building out better

processes i'll recap reach out to budap we'll hopefully have a form for these questions on the website uh twitter i call them this is your idea about about uh tweeting it out right if you don't mind offline just like quickly working with the twitter accounts whether that be validators through superfiz etc just to like pose that idea and get it executed that would be very helpful i don't think it'd be too much either too much work um and besides that i think those are the new strategies we have to get answers and then obviously once we have the evaluations up that'll peer pressure the ones that aren't there to have theirs up

i i i'm so sorry i had to uh i had to take care of toddler issues but uh i'm hearing this idea about a twitter thing it does make good sense to um so we've while we're waiting for this website we've allowed the uh the buzz about etdc to to kind of you know go low-key but it would be great to say we're out we're ready to publish data we'd love to hear from and then tag those other people uh was that was that sort of what you were suggesting well we were suggesting that could work the same strategy could work that you outlined we still need we don't have like creams answers we don't have a quite a few of the others answers so

you know i like that approach actually that you know maybe from the eat steak or twitter you tweet that out and say you know thank you to x y and z staking pools for providing your answers you know really looking forward to abc pools hearing back from you we should be posting our evaluations in the coming weeks something like that uh i think that would that that would in a link to the form that might be useful okay and you know we've obviously all agreed that when the site is actually up in public it will be its own um it will seat its own pressure so correct yes i i do find it 100 fundamentally believe that these are just alternatives

you know the beacon chain website the uh the twitter route um and then obviously the new members individually reaching out to any of their colleagues at other staking pools that they see are not added those would be the three new strategies we're kind of invoking great oh um on another or similar topic um currently on the ethereum.org website um it links to this beacon chain list of service providers when we have our website ready it

would be an idea to also make a pull request on the ethereum.org website a repository um to include a link to the edcc yeah that's a really good idea phil i you know not only could we make a pull request but you know i'm happy to reach out to some of my contacts there i think they would be willing to do it i know superfiz has much closer contacts than i have at the uh fount foundation and i don't know if he he'd do that but you know i'm happy to do it through the ones that i've made so i mean honestly i'm not even sure

it's a contact thing it is it is just good common sense and uh even if we were even if we didn't have any contacts i think it's it's so easy to just say hey this is something we did and i i have no doubt that they would slurp it up um so uh yeah we will definitely the moment we have a public ready product we'll begin sharing it with anyone who will look at it agreed that makes all the sense in the world awesome any other items that people want to bring up super fizz

i worked on the uh scheduling a little bit we agreed that it would make good sense to split up um i know jk is probably up at 2 or 3 am again good morning sorry uh so if you haven't completed that scheduling form please do that if you are watching this and you're interested in participating we will get the scheduling form uh posted to the bottom of the youtube video or you can reach out to me superfize1038 at discord and i'll get you a copy of the scheduling form this is not for people who are are here now we really want to reach out to people who haven't been able to make it because of scheduling problems

so that we can include you and what i'm looking at is um scheduling these meetings 12 hours apart so that we're catching people on either side of the globe right now it's just picking that correct hour and uh my belief is that by the 10th i'll have enough data to say these are the the two times that we'll be holding the meetings and will alternate back and forth every week so that um people will have a good week and a bad week and if you attend that's great and if you can't it's totally understandable because it's probably midnight where you are thank you for doing that yep so make sure you fill that out i

just fill out mine real quick any other things that people want to bring up are there any updates on the slashing front i mean there there have been some some slashings going on again the one day that you desperately need jay khan to come and he's he's not here so from from what i've heard it's more of the same people um creating automated failover and that biting them right i mean i can i can go on i'd say smart people can not consider everything and smart people can write software with bugs and

not letting failover bake for half a year to a year on test before you deploy it in maine is bold let's put it that way i i did see um i cannot source this right now and i i saw it late last night i did see a a post from a person who was involved with the incident that said that a postmortem would be coming out um so i think just to be fair to that organization it's best that we wait until they have a chance to speak for themselves and i i wish that i some i've been asked for this uh screenshot from a couple people but i i it was public i just cannot remember where i

saw it uh and but i i am under the impression that a uh a postmortem will be coming out great yeah prismatic laps came out today and had an update and they said look you know um automated failover is difficult just take the down time the the penalty is not that great and resolve your downtime um so so far from what it looks like no client has ever caused a slashing it's all been operational issues let's i i think it's so important that we especially as as a representative organization of of pools and stakers

never pick up our pitchforks and go after someone um our our ultimate goal is for all of the pools and service providers to be as successful as they can be and so mistakes are going to happen stress is high when that happens and our role is should be really to reach out and say as a staking community how can we support you how can we help you get back up and running with a minimum of loss because uh we are at the end of the day a community and we we should never never pick up pick up pitchforks and look for um look for action

yeah i i might clarify so my comments aren't meant to be pitchforky they're meant to be um cautionary towards single stakers people who aren't necessarily with pools sure we do pool evaluations right but this also gets looked at by people who say oh maybe i'll do a little solo stake over here and i think it's good to just remind folk that the penalties for being offline are small and the penalties forget and fail over um wrong are large so you know particularly if you're a solo staker just take the take the offline penalty resolve your offline you know and and i apologize that my uh my soapbox comment followed what you said it wasn't i didn't intend

to direct that to you um i do have the statement now um tim ogilvy says there wasn't a technical issue that impacted staked staked run validators as we were attempting to make some performance upgrade as a result clients were slashed as a general rule staked we'll make sure clients are kept whole versus any slashing events we're still investigating but we'll publish a post-mortem that's on the east staker discord eth2 support channel so good to hear yeah i mean i i get it right if you're a pool the the fear of just being offline is greater because you have more validators i don't know if i've um talked about this with you superfiz or um

maybe maybe it was with ben from tekku but um i've talked with someone about maybe it'd be good to just have sort of these accounts um you know this knowledge base of post-mortems of how why slashings happened uh if you know the the the people who have been slashed are willing to share that information because it'd be a really good um information for solo stakers and other uh patrols that will later join yes i have i have a disc i'm sorry a github repo for that um i it was originally public but um i i received some feedback that it uh it was a little bit of rubbing salt in the wound so i made it private but i still welcome um collaborators and uh

so and we can talk about whether it needs to be public or private but in the interest of of not rubbing salt in wounds at the time i felt like private was the best option um but we can continue to develop that and it really the the ultimate purpose is if it if it's ever useful for research then the the knowledge is there um and if it's never needed then it didn't hurt anything i think it was sorry go ahead can you at least mask like the actual slashing event like would they still be against that even after that i don't uh i i'm willing to discuss ways that we can can leave it public i like for it to be public

what i don't want to do is to be seen as a gotcha kind of person because it's not the goal at all so um i'm willing to to discuss with you or any one ways that we can help that information be public without rubbing salt and winds right so it also depends on how granular we want to get right if you are very high level then for every single slashing event so far the answer is it happened because a validator client had validator keys that were running in two locations at the same time period that's it right um the if we go deeper into details then it might be oh because we did this thing and did not think about

that eventuality and this is what we learned however that makes it somewhat identifiable right depending on what people know about um infrastructure specific infrastructure but yeah if we want to get that granular it would be helpful to people who are creating failover processes and and software to say oh yeah we need to think about that we need to think about that etc but for a solos taker very high level don't fail over automatically and run your keys in one location you know that's it i think the long-term benefit of these is going to be the um those post-mortems whether they're by individuals who say

i did a dumb thing or whether they're by uh big companies a link to all of those post-mortems in one place um really does seem like a community benefit so uh let's let's uh chat this week and get together about finding a way to fairly uh make that public um yeah yeah yeah just another more positive way maybe to do it if you if you're a bit um on the border about like this disclosing slashing it'd be to accumulate like best practices that some of the other like operators are actually uh you know abiding by that might be a much a better positive way maybe uh

to approach it yeah i i think that's great i don't have it worked out and i don't claim to but my my absolute goal is just that we remain a force for positive growth and not a um not a yeah we get the idea and yeah uh jk i think that's that might be a good route to take or maybe a combination of both so thank you awesome well if there's not anything else then i'd say we adjourn a little bit early today uh don't forget submit your video don't forget to uh fill out super fizz's time sheet don't forget uh to

look for those uh who want to help phil and check out phil's process on the further due diligence channel to check that out uh don't forget if you have friends or um we're going to tweet out about it uh to try to solicit more people more stinking pools to fill out those uh that form anything i missed on the the recap awesome well looking forward to seeing everyone next week to go through the website thank y'all for coming thank you guys take care bye felix thank you i'm just glad everyone else made it