Decoding crypto communication: Token Relations

Transcript

the crypto Market is filled with tons of noise blockchains and major projects face challenges in communicating with their ecosystems due to rapidly changing algorithms and overwhelming amount of information and increasing complexity in the industry sure every project communicates on X and Discord and telegram but no crypto project has successfully streamlined their communication with their community and ecosystem Partners to solve this Jack melan an award nominated crypto journalist and Anthony papano AKA pomp longtime entrepreneur and Infamous investor have co-founded token relations in today's fascinating conversation

we're joined by these two incredible Builders to discuss the problem every crypto project is facing and how they plan to solve it the opportunity they see for a new category to form in crypto similar to investor relations except it's token relations is Pomp a Bitcoin Maxi I asked him this question and you'll be surprised by his answer and where they both think we are at in the evolution of crypto and what that means for the future gmgm welcomed milroad radio the easiest path to get smarter about crypto I'm Jay Hamilton and I believe that onchain is the next online this is the opportunity and I'm here to

guide you to capitalize crypto will go up more than 100x in both users and value over the next decade if you're listening to this right now you're extremely early and have an incredible opportunity to capitalize at milk Road our mission is to make you smarter about crypto that's why we're doing today's podcast and why we send you a daily newsletter for free but if you're ready to level up as an investor then let me tell you about milk Road Pro we crafted this resource for investors who are already smart enough about crypto and are looking for more actionable insights on how to invest successfully in one of the fastest growing Industries on Earth every week we break down the latest trends dive into tokenomics of popular and upand cominging tokens and get into the nitty-gritty of market analysis all to help you invest smarter plus we have

a private Discord Community for pro members it's like your backstage pass to the milk road crew exclusive insights Hot Tips and live amas with our team now if you're looking to level up as an investor then click the link in the show notes below and sign up to Pro today don't let this bull market opportunity slip through your fingers G M Jacqueline pomp welcome to milk Road radio thanks for having us thanks for having us super excited to have you both longtime fan of both you personally and milk Road the Milkman loves you guys he was super stoked that you're both coming on the show today pomp I want to start with you and you've said multiple times as a a founder of multiple businesses and an investor in a lot of tech businesses that you are part part of that one of

the most important objectives of any business is to solve your customer problem let's start there what is the problem that you see and the problem that token relations is going to solve yeah I mean if you think of uh kind of traditional business outside of the crypto industry they basically have three different types of communications efforts they have marketing which is focused on how do you go get more customers and users then they have a PR effort which is basically let's go talk to journalists and help them understand our story so then they can tell Their audience and then they have this third bucket and depending on if it's the public market or private Market they call it different things in the private Market they usually think of it as some sort of community operation or like a retention uh element in the public

market they think of it as like shareholder relations Etc but basically what they're trying to do is they're trying to communicate to their investors they're trying to communicate to their stakeholders they're trying to communicate to the quote unquote market so you know in the public markets they're trying to talk to analysts and things like that if you go and you look in the crypto industry uh we have marketing teams and we have PR teams but we don't have that third bucket we don't have the people who are focused on the users communicating with your users who already exist communicating with the developers that are building on top of your blockchain the people who are building inside of your ecosystem the people who are holding a token or who are a user of one of the apps within your ecosystem Etc and so if you think

about that like that's actually the biggest group of people to talk to and it's probably the most important for a lot of these kind of ecosystems and so we think that we can build a solution to help solve that problem okay so Jacqueline over to you how are you going to solve that problem clear problem definitely a problem especially unique problem to crypto because you have way more stakeholders than really you any other business has had previously and their Capital stakeholders which unfortunately tend to yell at you a lot more if you don't make them more money so they care a lot more but H H how will token relations solve it yeah I think the first and most important step is to establish that direct connection with these ecosystem players or token holders however you want to frame it and we

launched the business initially with Aptos Avalanche and optimism to kind of start building that out and in this like V1 era we are doing newsletters quarterly webinars by annual reports kind of diving into making sense of like what's going on on these ecosystems and chains and why does it matter in a way that the people who are invested in the business either with like a financial stake or just interested can learn more about it all the time so that's really the first step that we're doing and then we kind of see an opportunity here to build it out in a technological way so we could scale it and also customize it to fit other blockchains protocols and projects that might not be at the same stage that these ones are yeah that was going to be one of my first questions

when I saw you guys launch and checked it out was is this a service or is this a product so what I'm hearing is V1 right now and you just launched a month ago so might be a big question to ask but so V1 service you are a service right now V2 product is that am I hearing that correctly that's right yeah if you think of a lot of times Founders have this like I'm gonna go in a corner and I'm gonna build something and then I'm gonna do this big reveal I'm gonna pull back the curtain like look what I built it's amazing the problem with that although it can work at times is that you really have been disconnected from the market right you don't know what the market wants and so this is not the type of business where we're going to like

try to go to Mars and so like who cares what the market wants and we're going to go do something completely new and so the feedback is really important and so the way that we are kind of sequentially building the product is first we're starting with the things that don't scale it's just like let's go do the content let's go figure out from a service perspective how do we solve this problem and it's going to be painful it's going to take a lot of time and effort it's going to be every person in Tech is g to be like you can just automate this stuff but like let's figure out what those things are first and then we will launch the product and that product really is one automating a lot of the processes and service and things like that but also two is we

think that is the unlocking of a lot of use cases once we're able to to launch that and you know I'll give you kind of a very easy example which is in any other industry in the world you can segment your audience in crypto if you want to communicate with your ecosystem let's say you want to communicate to your developers you go on Twitter and you blast your entire ecosystem with Communications for a developer you then go in your Discord or your telegram you do the same thing and so it's not presently possible to segment your audience so imagine if you were apple and you had to send the same email to everyone regardless of who you're talking to that's insane right that is what we currently ask of these groups because there's not very good data and

analytics there's not very good segmentation tools there's not very good understanding of what to communicate who to communicate with when to communicate like all these things and so we think that there's a product in there that we can build and we've got some pretty strong ideas around that will help introduce some of the things that are actually not new they're present in other Industries we just want to bring them to this industry now another thing that you guys talked a lot about around the launch and the articles that I read in prep for this show spoke about the issues with the current platforms that we use the main platforms that we use to communicate with our audience are Twitter I mean in the case of crypto it's all on X you mentioned Discord and telegram but mostly X we rely on X we're not using email we're not really on

LinkedIn kind of but on email yeah well not to communicate with uh directly with our token holders definitely not I don't think most token holders are giving emails I mean if they are then uh they're willing to be not to come out of their anonymity in a way that a lot aren't yet so these algorithms control so much that kind of perked my interest what are you thinking when you think about building something that maybe isn't algorithmically controlled just tell me what your thinking is there because I'm trying to frame with that leis are you building a x competitor in the future here is that where this is going yeah we're we're not building a competitor to X or telegram or Discord I think this is a service where people in

these ecosystems can get everything all in one place without the noise or the chance of an algorithm not letting these things show up on their feet like let's say for instance like avalan tweet something out what are the odds that their million followers are all going to see that probably not like if you look right now it's it's a certain amount yeah it's zero the odds are zero and so we're not trying to compete with these algorithms but provide a place where people know they could get access to this information metrics Etc in a way that is understandable and meets them where they are so I think in this like V1 era that we're in it is kind of like web two with the emails of the newsletters but as we transition into the next phase it grows into more of a web three Centric framework pomp you're

a media Builder you've got a a very successful newsletter that goes out every day you've got a very successful podcast how do you think about this business in the landscape of media or is this business not fit into the landscap of media does it fit more into this Communications bucket which I guess has so much Crossover with media anyways yeah it's really interesting question um I love businesses that uh on their face everyone kind of like scoffs at like H like you know what what are these people doing over there in the corner because there's not a lot of competition and also Al it allows you to get the product right before people really realize like hey I need that thing and so when people hear content when they hear service like

go is a media thing you know whatever but again it's a tech company that you start off with the service to learn to then be able to build the technology and I guess in one regard all tech companies are media companies today right like you know every business needs to be good at communicating and sharing this information Etc on the other hand I think that both Jackie and I background you know Jack has a extensive background now working at multiple places covering the industry and so when you think about whether we're building technology or not people are going to use the technology to tell a story to share information to communicate having people who have that background building the technology is actually really valuable so I think that we're we're well positioned to build a

technology company that is going to touch these components of media content Communications Etc and you know I think we're less worried about like which bucket do we put it in and we solve the customer's problem then that's ultimately how we're going to be measured on success or failure but fitting to a bucket is important when you're trying to sell a service so it must be challenging for you right now are you what are you finding when you reach out to potential customers I mean you mentioned aptose Avalanche and optimism are your first launch partners are they understanding this and where you fit and the need for this or are they like passing you around from marketing to PR to to investor relations whatever that might be for for

a chain yeah I I think that most teams they just know like hey we need help doing this and we don't have somebody internally and so each team's a little bit different you know I think Jackie specifically has done a great job of kind of navigating inside of these organizations and figuring out who's responsible for this body of work sometimes it is people in marketing sometimes it is a Communications person and so just you know trying to understand okay what are the problems and one of the the things that I've learned over time uh that we're doing here is we're launching with a very small group of kind of design partners and the goal is not just hey let's go sign up a bunch of customers the goal is let's work and we're basically going to build custom solutions for those early partners and then our job will be to

take those custom Solutions figure out what the commonalities are and bring it to the rest of the industry over time but you know it's a pretty good gig for uh for the first couple of customers is you get Jackie and I working directly with you to help solve your problem and we're doing it because we think that there's this bigger opportunity but in the beginning unfortunately for those those who think that it's some nice sexy you know celebriti thing Zoom a lot of email a lot of you know figuring it out uh before we can uh we can really start bu in technology I think also once we like sit down and talk with them or even prospective clients they understand it a lot better than like what it looks like on face value because it's not marketing it's not PR it's not comms but it's this

like extra bucket that we keep talking about and so when we explain it to them and they realize like what an important service it is especially like gaining new ecosystem players but also Al retaining the attention of your existing ones so that they continue to be long-term holders we know how fast things change in crypto and how short the attention span can be for a lot of people and so just kind of creating value where they didn't even know they needed it some of them and then others on short points where they have so much stuff going on that that is a pain point for them in itself that they can't keep track of everything and we kind of helped do that yeah you mentioned this term ecosystem stakeholders and also when you first launched I looked at the business

name and I thought is this a business name or is this a new category name was where my mind went too is it yeah is it both was that the goal here that's something I joked before to pomp that like we kind of created a term here but that was where it was it was like very tongue and- cheek where we came up with the name when you mention ecosystem stakeholders and obviously this is one of the challenges that any crypto business faces is you have multiple different stakeholders very early on in your business usually a lot of the stakeholders particularly on the investor side you wouldn't have this level or this scale of stakeholders until you went public at which point you would be at a much different stage of

your company prepared to manage those type of relations and those type of communications so when you think about because just because we have so many listeners who are in this exact stage of their business they're running a chain they're working for a chain either founding or they're building what is your advice to how they should think about this solving this problem of communicating to and you might just say call token relations but any advice you can share for them of how they might better format their communication with their ecosystem stakeholders yeah yeah I was gonna say you uh definitely jumped the gun on that one I would say come work with us but I also think it's so important to make things accessible and

understandable a lot of of times these Founders are extremely technical it makes sense and they don't know how to disseminate information in a non-technical way and that's something that I bring my background from into this business and making things that are highly technical not technical for the audience sure there will be technical like readers and listeners developers by like the thousands but that doesn't necessarily mean the whole ecosystem is Technical and if there's an upgrade going on or something that you're presenting as a new product launch explain why it matters in the bigger picture it's not just enough to say like hey we made this cool new thing like great everyone does that but why does it matter what does it mean for your project how can that kind of like be incorporated in the bigger crypto

picture and where do you see it going and also like following up on those things is so significant and so many projects Never follow up on their announcements it's just like like a toss in the ocean basically that's not the same but you know what I mean so so simple right to follow up but it's easy easy forget okay so you're you're approaching this from there's an issue that we have with the current platforms that we use to communicate as you said at the beginning you know you put something on X doesn't mean that everyone's going to see it are you are you trying to teach them to use different channels are you saying stick to Discord Telegram and X for now what are the channels that you are encouraging your clients to use I I

think the big thing on channels is you're still going to use those channels for marketing you're still going to use those channels for various communication efforts but if you want to ensure that you understand who you're talking to if you want to segment your audiences if you want to be able to measure the actual efficacy of those Communications uh and you want to make sure that they're done on platforms where algorithms and notification trays don't block you from being able to communicate with those individuals we think that we can build a product specifically suited to do that for a specific industry and so we're not going to compete with X we're not going to compete with telegram or Discord we think that those are really really good channels for the things that they're being used for today the problem is that they're the only tools available and so we think rather

than try to you know get teams to swap tools out what we actually want to do is we want them just to put one more tool in their toolbox and be able to use it for a very specific use case where we think that the market is probably bigger than most people believe it is today I completely agree with that that final statement okay I want to touch on you both have been very successful on your career in your careers so why why invest your time and your money and your in this pomp let's start with you as a multi- buus you know founder and investor what do you look at and what caught your eye about this opportunity that made you say hey this has good odds to succeed yeah I don't care so much

about the success I think that kind of just comes with you know kind of correctly operating what I would say is I got a problem which is when I see problems I it frustrates me if they don't get solved and became obvious no one else was going to do this at this point in my career I'm very intentional about the things we go after but also the people that we do it with I talked to exactly one person about this idea Jackie and I told her I said either you do it or I'm not gonna do it right and I left it with her I said you you decide uh whether you want to do it or not but I'm not going to go and talk to 20 people and it's just like you're the right person to do it if you want to do

it let's do it if not then the problem's going to go unsolved but from my standpoint it's just like if there is a problem that exist for a large group of people we need folks to go solve them in this one I pretty much convinced myself no one else was going to do it so we might as well go try Jackie yeah on your end you know you're you're an award-winning journalist like you know I don't know what shaves more years off your life entrepreneurship or journalism they probably tie pretty closely we'll find what made you make the leap and make the shift yeah I think you know when pomp originally reached out to me I was like either it's an embargo that he really wants me to cover or he's gonna ask me for like a a business idea like I know he's really

big in business and like I thought maybe there was like a chance that he wanted to start something with me and like personally I was looking into doing my own thing anyways I find the media landscape really depressing as I'm sure you see and I feel like personal brands are a little more powerful sometimes than like media organizations as a whole like people would come and read Tech crunch crypto because I was the one writing it that's what I was told that's kind of like how it worked and like I built up you know the tech runch crypto coverage there and I made it what it is when I left but at the time I really wanted to do something that was my own that I owned it and I was really passionate about the crypto industry like I'm really deep in the the crypto

Twitter lore like the whole cultural situation like I'm in the discords I'm in everything and like some people argue like reporters should stick to reporter communities and I never agreed with that I always felt like even though I was in the reporter world I was still a part of the C to community of course I wrote about the bad news of course I looked at things objectively and like definitely took everything with a grain of salt not every Project's going to be amazing you see a million of the same pitches a hundred times and for me it was like I wanted to make a better impact in the space than like what I was capable of doing at Tech crunch or as a reporter as a whole I was covering a trillion dollar industry and I was one person and there were a lot of things that I had to pass

up on that I couldn't do just just because of like my own capacity and so like this business is kind of trying to be a solution to that problem in many ways but in the sense that there are so many projects out there that deserve coverage that deserve like uh bigger story that they're not getting it and if we could provide that for projects building on certain chains I think that's extremely valuable and I mean when pom came to me about this idea I it it made sense to me it was of interest to me and it kind of goes back to like the problem that I felt while I was a reporter and yeah so we talked for like an hour and a half and he left me with it sent me uh kind of more information

later that day I sat on it for the weekend and then yeah we were working on it behind the scenes for a couple months before we launched that's awesome so pomp you I didn't realize that you had this idea that you came up with this you thought you saw the problem take me through how does that happen for you in terms of having a new idea and then finding a new business partner and launching a business the idea is smack you in the face when you hear enough people talk about it right I mean I talked to these teams all day long for various businesses we have I kept hearing the same thing which was we're having trouble okay what about this what about this would you pay for this you know how much would you pay what would it have to look like what's important do

you have somebody on your team who could actually uh do it or is it something you'd Outsource they just ask a couple of questions and by the third or fourth team that was like not just like yeah we need help but was like we're dying without help it was like okay like there's definitely a market here U and so it's just kind of you know over time you're like your human algorithm your gut just gives you enough data points where you're like yeah I think that this is something that's possible and so at some point you just suck it up you know get some courage and make the BET and see what happens and find the time somehow in uh an already jam-pack schedule I'm sure how did you guys first meet how did this relationship ship happen I covered one of his

announcements years ago I think one of the first interactions was when he started inflection points which is a hiring firm and we've stayed in touch throughout the years I think that's correct right to be honest I meet a lot of people as does he and I go back in the archives and look but I'm pretty sure that was one of the first interactions we had I think he just followed me on on Twitter and like I was like what's this big account doing following me so must popped up on his algorithm back to the algorithm so maybe the algorithm did help in that case although I'm sure it was intentional from poom side okay one thing that happened when you guys launched token relations was a bit of a mixed bag of emotions and reaction from

the crypto Twitter World Jacqueline I think on your end you got a lot of positive feedback a lot of people were excited you know it was fairly standard pump you didn't get so much of a positive feedback you actually got a lot of negative feedback from a lot of Bitcoin Maxis first question pump are you a Bitcoin Maxi I'm a Bitcoin maximos in the sense that I think that Bitcoin is going to be the winner in the monetary kind of race I'm not a Bitcoin maximalist and don't think other people should be either to think that everything else is going to not be valuable right it's kind of like saying the internet comes out you're like I'm a iMac or like a apple Maxi like they got me Steve Jobs and Tim M cook got me I

use a bunch of Apple products but I also understand that Android is gonna be valuable too right and so I think that that's kind of how you put me in there and I would actually disagree with you I think that I got lots of positive feedback I just look at it a little bit different which is when the most rigid minded people attack it's actually a positive sign you're violating their worldview you're violating the framework that they have and two things happen one over time I've learn that the more they attack the closer to the truth you are and then the second thing is man are they good at marketing they are so good at marketing right and they attack and every one of them that responds or you

know hate quote tweets or whatever they're just making this stuff go viral and so a component of it is we've done this enough times now where you know we understand what's gonna kind of push buttons and stuff and again I don't wake up every day thinking about how do I like upset people but I Al I'm not you know going to change what we're going to do based on what other people are going to say and so if you understand you know hey this is going to upset a certain group of people who happen to be really good at making things go viral when they're upset with it okay let's see what happens and I think that the I think our announcement kind of between the both of us probably got almost a million views right and so a win Well here here's what I can say is

announc we got a million views we had something like 60 or more inbound leads after day one damn um and uh the business is profitable and we're growing so you know some people look at it and they say oh my God that's horrible you know those people were so mean to you on the internet what people I don't even remember what they said right we got a great business we're we're moving on and so I think that you know again it helps to have gone through it a bunch of times no as much as I joke around I I honestly do believe that there's a lot of really really good people in the Bitcoin world most of them are not kind of the most hardcore you know kind of toxic Maxis if you will but even those people I actually see eye eye with them on a lot

right and obviously we're we're all sympathetic to the Bitcoin and and the problems in society Etc I may approach things I disagree with you know differently but we need them too there's times where I'm glad that we've got those folks on our side and you know they ramp up and they go after you know whoever's trying to attack Bitcoin Etc and in those moments I'm proud to staying shoulder-to-shoulder with them jacine on your end you've covered every chance in the space every different Community maybe not everyone only the good ones the legit ones what are your thoughts on this sort of maximalist culture and the impact of that on the growth of crypto and the adoption of crypto especially

when really we're still so small and we're trying to bring on billions here do you think that's a good thing how do you feel about that yeah I see the pros and cons of it I hear Palm's sentiments and I can Echo some of them but I think you know for me when I first got into crypto it was through Bitcoin and I feel like that's the entry point for most people if not Bitcoin then maybe ethereum and maybe maybe salana nowadays but for most people it is going to be through Bitcoin and you kind of hear over and over that like Bitcoin is the way there is no other way and then all of a sudden you might learn about something else called ethereum and then it like kind of spals and snowballs and I think in a way it is a little problematic but I think similar to what

he's saying is like Bitcoin is the grandfather of cryptocurrencies I think that's going to get the most adoption from mainstream audiences from traditional Finance Etc given the way it works and how long it's been around but is that to say the other blockchains out there aren't valuable absolutely not like I see so much value across so many different chains for so many different reasons like app specific chains general blockchains ones that are just you know mean coins that are building chains too like I don't know if that's like the future of Finance but I you know it's a free market and I think the reality is that these companies and protocols Etc should be allowed to create whatever they want and if people see value in it who are we to tell them that it's not

valuable it's for the market to decide yeah I was so bearish on Meme coins for so long because I just didn't get it but I was really bullish on social tokens I really believed in like oh every community that should have a token that connects them they should be able to be on chain they should have Capital formation all the benefits of being on chain and then I realized I was like oh wait these are the same freaking thing I'm missing the forest through the trees here and it actually totally changed my view and now I actually kind of think that Meme coins have a they definitely have a place you know bringing culture on chain can do a lot in the long term doesn't mean that I'm sitting here saying that you should go invest in meme

coins so there's a big difference between that Gap and you can join the milro Discord if you want to see people talking about what memec coin to invest in next because everyone's trying to make 100x all the time because apparently making you know 2x isn't enough right you know like yeah like you know most people are excited to beat the SNP every year and here we are how do you feel about that like as an investor what's your advice to our listeners or to your to your readers on how they should frame themselves when everybody is so obsessed with these massive returns I think it's human nature what is what are people in the stock market doing they're trying to drive massive Returns what are they doing they're speculating they're gambling right we call it investing because they're doing a little bit of

research but you know there's plenty of people who go to Las Vegas did plenty of research studied you know and then they go play blackjack right there there's not really any other way to describe if half the options volume in the stock market is zero day options people are literally just betting what is the close the price of this asset going to be at the end of the the day it's crazy and so so that's not bad it's just how the world works I don't do it right do I buy meme coins I don't know I got two or three that you know are very small like basically non-meaningful amounts of money because a friend sent it to me it's hilarious right and basically I want to uh be there alongside my friends no different than if they sent me hey do you want to go you know this weekend and

you know go to the casino sure I'm not trying to get rich going to the casino not trying to get rich off meme coins right but I definitely I'll put a couple dollarss in and see what happens and then gives something to talk about over the weekend you know did you see this did you see that like whatever but I also think that I almost look at it as like I'm paying for a little bit of an education as well it's so far outside of what I do on a day-to-day basis nobody that I know in the like quote unquote sophisticated kind of investment world is going to go and buy name your coin my friends will listen to this and be upset I didn't name their favorite coin I was just going to say I love that you're not naming it he's doing a very good job of

not naming whatever I'm waiting for you to say one no I'm not gonna do it I'm not gonna do it but it is part of culture I mean crypto culture but speaking even broader part of kind of Internet culture and so as an investor there's this element of like you gotta understand this stuff you know I I probably feel like I'm getting old on a daily basis there's some folks I'll pick on will Clemente he's texted me once or twice with you know a jumbled list of letters and I got to ask him what's that mean and then he like unpacks it and it's like some whole sentence that he sent in five letters right and I'm like I'm like literally I'm like damn he got me right he'll like be like you know you're getting old right and so again I'm not gonna send the same text message

to a friend of mine but I better understand that stuff I understand you know kind of the language and culture and all that and so it's this like very weird thing of like how do you kind of stay up to speed but also not fulfill the meme of what's the guy he shows up with the skateboard he's like hey how you doing kids you know like so I I think a lot about like the meme coin stuff is maybe I'm like intellectually fascinated with it from a like understanding standpoint but you know also I know how the story ends and we'll see pump riding a skateboard with your suit and tie on visual that I've got stuck in my head now that I feel like we need to make happen just me writing a skateboard in general would be [Laughter]

bad okay let's not do that then because we don't want you to break your wrist or anything like that okay so before before we we wrap here I got got one sort of crypto question and then one personal question for both of you on the crypto blockchain side our audience one thing that they wanted us to ask coming into this episode was to pick both of your brains on where are we at with the evolution of crypto and blockchain if you compare it to the internet or to past Tech everybody gets so caught up in these bull cycles and get so scared especially when there's so much of their money is riding on it and they start to think oh it's all over oh it's just the beginning I'm curious when you guys step back when you zoom out what do you think

where do you think we're at how do you even frame or explain to people in your network where we're at ja you can go first yeah I'll I'll go first yeah I hate the saying like we are early but it's honestly correct I I think it's just so over said and but there's a very strong truth to it in the that crypto is so prominent and in your face right now and if it's being built on a blockchain you know about it but I actually spoke to this was like a year or two ago that the Avalanche co-founder mcer told me that he wants Avalanche to be something that like nobody knows about in the future in the sense that everyone's building on it and uses it but they don't know that it's like embedded into

the technology the same way that like when I order something on Uber Eats or I order an Uber I don't know how it got to me but it got to me and the same thing with crypto it's like we want to kind of create a reality and by we I mean like the whole industry where it is embedded in everyone's everyday lives and that people see the value in it and they see the convenience of what this technology can bring and I don't think we're there yet I think the crypto industry we speak in a bubble a lot of the times and when I step out of this and like I talk to my friends outside of the industry about things they have no idea what's going on in here they don't even know what ethereum is they'll be have you heard of this and they'll like hold up their

phone and it'll be like Dogecoin I'm like of course I've heard of Dogecoin you know but like that just shows like how they really are so not a part of this space and it's going to take a lot of work for it to become more mainstream I mean there's been Damage Done to the industry due to like cringe and polarizing factors which I'm sure you could think of some in your own head but there are also some really amazing benefits that have I think personally helped the financial institutions out there that need more expediting and like less intermediaries Etc so I I mean the saying is silly that we are early but I do think if we were looking at it like a baseball game we're probably on first base and I think like home run would be

like five to 10 years down the line at the very least pump what about you I tend to think that it's less about early and late right I think that like jacine did a good job of explaining kind of how to think through that to me I think of it more more as almost like a horizontal thing are we black and white with the Legacy industry or are we blending definitely like the the lines are blurring and blending and like there's more of a gray area now and there's more overlap and like they're coming together and so you can think of it either way but the reason why I think of it from that perspective is like as these come together and that line blurs you're going to start pulling more capital from the Legacy world and they got a lot of capital right and so you know if you use

Bitcoin like you have a finite asset and more Capital coming in like that's OB good for a long-term price but also the rest of the industry will benefit as well and so how to measure it I have no clue I think that we are further along than we were two years ago but in two years from now we'll be even further along and so like we're heading the right direction and so the reason why I think that that is important is because it gives you the confidence to keep building and doing things in the industry right if you were seeing it actually had the opposite way you'd say ah is this going to be around in five or 10 years you know I still see data points I suggest not only is it going to be around it's going to be around it's going be much more vibrant it's going to

be much larger there going to be more people participating more users all that stuff and so from a capital allocator seat like that's what you want to see you want to see that the future is brighter than you know the current and so you want to start kind of pushing towards that pump I heard you talk about time in a very interesting way previously can you tell our audience about how you think about time and where we're at right now and I can cue you if you don't know what I'm referring to my guess is that you're talking about somebody asked me like what is the crypto industry need and I said just time to pass yes yeah people don't like when I say that but it's true humans want control humans want to you know tell me what to do and I'll go do it

fortunately or unfortunately in this case there's nothing a human really is going to do other than allow time to pass and it's kind of the 8020 rule the passage of time is probably 80% of what's GNA change so what does that mean Regulators are gonna get old and get out of those jobs and then people who grow up on the technology are going to get into those seats regulation will become friendlier over time right Capital allocated to the industry the current capital allocators will get old they will move out of those seats and young people who grow up with this technology will then assimilate into those seats right you can just go through all these things users right they're growing up with it they're going to start using it more so like as time passes you

essentially allow the native users of these Technologies and the holders of these assets to permeate into positions of power influence control Etc to the point where I've long said that a bitcoiner will be president not somebody who's like running on let's take down the Federal Reserve and I'm going to make Bitcoin the you know Global Reserve currency like all that I I don't it's too radical of a message in my opinion at least in today's climate and kind of economy but somebody's going to become the president who has stocks who has bonds who has Bitcoin who as real estate you know whatever and so today there's somebody who is a stock investor who's President we're not

like oh my God that's incredible stock you know stock uh investors aren't like cheering yeah yeah bitcoiners maybe a little bit better at cheering when one of their own does something right but it's more of just like the asset is going to become in everyone's portfolio and so naturally you know the president hold some Bitcoin well if the president holds Bitcoin they're probably not going to be as abrasive to it right I think if there's an age and generation gap Etc and so like the passage of time again we don't control it so we gotta be okay just saying like look time is time we can work you know in the meantime if you will but I do think that that's probably going to be 80% of what's going to be

the Tailwind for the industry is just allowing more people to get comfortable for a longer period of time with the technology PP I don't want to wait man I don't want to wait I want to human human nature right Bitcoin should teach everyone to be a long-term thinker right yeah yeah well but what's interesting about what you bring up when you talk about time is how monetary policies and the the monetary system moves quite slow in terms of time but there are still people alive today who would remember the gold standard and then there's all of us in this conversation who wouldn't remember the gold standard and we all have lived on Fiat and that's all we've known and then

I look at my nieces who are 15 years old and I buy them Bitcoin otherwise they wouldn't have Bitcoin but I definitely buy them Bitcoin every year for their birthday and they are going to grow up in a world where they only knew Bitcoin and ethereum and other tokens as well so there's so much truth in what you're saying pomp is that we really do unfortunately need time but nobody wants to hear that when we're all we're all here to make some money so appreciate your sentiment for sure okay one personal question before we wrap Jacqueline I'll go to you first and then Palm second Jacqueline I'm flipping this question on you you asked this question to your listeners in in your podcast

talking tokens which is a great podcast so everybody listening if you want to hear a great new podcast make sure you check out talking tokens we'll link to it in the show notes you asked this question at the end which is can you leave our listeners with one piece of advice that is a question that I ask every single guest and I think my piece of advice would just be be thoughtful about your time and where you spend it someone told me a long time ago to protect my peace as a reporter that a lot of people will come to you for favors people will demand a lot from you and that applies to anyone not just reporters and think about like what's the best way to optimize your time and share it with the people around you to better your career better your life and

make it just like a better place overall so yeah protect your peace and be thoughtful about your time cool I love it that's what I do what about you my one piece of advice make sure that you build a life outside of business and investing there's a lot of young people that we work with that work at our companies that run our companies Etc and when you're young and ambitious and you know you want to work hard it's very easy to become obsessed with work I can say that because I did it but you know getting married married having kids kind of building a life outside of work has been very rewarding for me it's very rewarding for a lot of my friends and so I think the more people could do that the the better they'll be I love that pump I gotta ask you one more question

every day on Twitter you say good morning today is going to be a great day let's get after it relentlessly why that's literally what I think when I get up and I tweeted it one day and I realized that by like saying it to myself and writing it out is pretty powerful and then I did it another day and another day and For Better or Worse pretty simple man you know wear the same tie say the same thing every morning eat the same thing every day it works for me hopefully you know helps a couple other people if not maybe people are just laughing and enjoying it I love it I love it okay before we wrap where can people uh find out about token relations where can they follow you any shill you

guys want to give whether you're hiring or whether you want clients whatever ever it is you can find us at token relations on X and on there there is a link tree that fills to everything about token relations all the products we offer the podcast newsletter things we've rolled out for appos Avalanche and optimism so far you could contact us through there if you are interested in working with us it's just contact at token relations.com or you can reach out to me or pomp on Twitter probably me because I'm sure he has like a bajillion DMS but I'm the better cont point I think and yeah we would love to take on new clients of all sizes uh crypto projects protocols blockchains if you're listening feel like you need a better

relationship with your ecosystem we want to help you do that thank you so much for joining us today thanks for leading a new category I don't get a lot of uh Founders are not only building a business but also leading a category and I think it's a very important and Noble mission that you guys are chasing so excited to watch we'll have to have you guys back on whenever you launch V2 and the product because that'll really get our listeners excited thanks again for joining us thanks for having for having me thanks for listening in everybody have a great day thank you for listening to milk Road radio the easiest path to get smarter about crypto if you like this episode share it and hit subscribe or follow so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily

newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game then we'll leave leave a link to milroad Pro as well your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this podcast is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice crypto is risky so you should never invest more than you're willing to lose thank you friends and we'll see you in the next one