De Week van Bitcoin #30: Mihai Alisie and Joseph Lubin, Co-Founders of Ethereum

Transcript

edition of The V from Bitcoin episode number 30 normally we record it in Dutch but this time due to our guests from ethereum we'll do it in English with me of course is resident expert and widely known Bitcoin Economist T Mister calling him from Belgium hi T hi Paul and we have local ethereum expert yoris Bona joining from Amsterdam hi youris hey guys hello I'm I'm based in Ecuador uh and then we have the ethereum for folks joining from Switzerland we have mik elisi Joseph Luben Taylor Garing and Steph Tu hi guys hello thanks for having us guys yeah really cool that you guys are able to make this uh this conference very

excited so first of all can you um guys introduce yourselves a bit and then um give a brief overview of what ethereum is sure Joseph Luben generally in charge of operations yeaha here um I've been focusing more on the social side of the project and uh uh lately I'm transitioning into sort of thinking about the interface um of The Ether browser and how that could um be integrated uh I'm Taylor Garing and I've been focused primarily on infrastructure work around the website and uh tools needs to support the development team uh

looking forward on working more towards operations around the organization and helping work practically effici and I'm stepan and I'm in charge of communications very effici great so uh who can explain um to our listeners what ethereum is all about in two minutes um I I'll I'll give it a try uh so from a a broad perspective first of all uh one of the most um uh definitory traits of us as humans is our uh capacity to abtract world around us and create a a mental image of what is around us so money as a concept has been

a universal layer that allowed us to basically abstract everything around us in the base of 10 and uh the digital revolution in a way it's uh allowing us to abstract reality around us into the base of to zeros and ones so ethereum as a as a project um can be described as a canvas that allows uh humans to uh use their uh Power of abstraction to build anything really anything that can be mathematically defined can be put now on a blockchain and to run on top of the decentralized network but to put things a little more concretely um ethereum is to

Applications uh distributed applications as Bitcoin is to Value transfer and storage so in the same way that that uh that a set of miners all around the world um come to a consensus about what happened and when regarding value transmission um the a different set of miners will come to a consensus regarding what happened in the applications the change of state of applications on the ethereum network right that's very interesting and could you guys uh tell us a bit more about how you're organized where you're based and and and how big the team is by now um primarily we operated uh so far from uh London Switzerland uh

Netherlands also um and uh Toronto uh these are the primary hubs um and uh we are currently in uh in the process of exploring a variety of solutions that will allow us to operate in a distributed way in in in a fashion that will actually make things more efficient yeah a Berlin Hub is taking form right now too for person some core development so you guys will be the first decentralized autonomous Corporation to to to run on on ethereum network um the intention is actually that so uh in the bootstrap process obviously we have to to have uh more

centralization to get things done but uh yeah uh we do intend to uh d iify ourselves in time so we will become more and more decentralized that that also ties into the the way the organizational structures are being uh designed to allow a segue into the deification as in how the Dao will interact with its agents the one thing for your audience if they're not familiar with what a Dao is it's a um it's a contract program basically or a series of program that live on top of the ethereum blockchain and is completely autonomous uh requires

absolutely no human intervention and will stay on the blockchain as long as it provides a valuable service to its users and as long as it's obviously generating enough Revenue to pay for its ins survival as Mii was indicating we are working on on different models and organization organizing principles and organizing tools um to essentially codify how we operate and and by codifying uh we can move that code onto the blockchain and have for instance an Open salary model um execute in an automated Fashion on the blockchain and eventually ideally we'll have all governance functions on the blockchain right we have already some

questions from the audience coming in but let's just save them for a bit later and first ask our experts available here in in the video yis and T um guys what do you want to ask ethereum guys so my question would be um these applications that people will be writing on top of ethereum how will they be distributed I mean from end user perspective how will you be interfacing with ethereum um so it's actually going to look very similar to to what users are already used to so for example uh there is a browser there's a concept of the browser where people can select and browse daps or decentralized app applications those applications are written in HTML and JavaScript or qml so

again it will be uh if you're a web developer it'll be very familiar a very familiar environment where you can use existing web framework to build your apps the difference is that when the decentralized GUI talks to the underlying blockchain well that's what the blockchain is it's its database as opposed to talk to a centralized myql server for example um the way they will be distributed uh well obviously the contracts the programs are sitting on the blockchain that's their means of distribution exactly like you you can think of the Bitcoin blockchain today uh in terms of the guies they decentralized via a bit torent like mechanism called swarm um which uh will allow the frontends themselves uh to be

decentralized and distributed and that's very different from uh the means of distribution through centralized web server that were experiencing today and it makes them both corruption and uh censorship proof essentially you're uh you're storing bookmarks to the goys to the front ends and when you click on them uh you uh rapidly installing the latest version of it because we got a question here from the audience also with regards to swarm saying will swarm and Whisper be part of the initial prod production launch question by con bar not necessarily um they're definitely very

important to the project there's other ways to temporarily distribute the front end uh the important thing to remember here is that swarm and Whisper uh do not impact the core protocol right so there even if we Implement swarm in a V 1.1 next year um that will not force us to execute some type of hot Fork um the protocol of the blockchain is 100% independent from this distribution mechanism for guies 1.0 version will be a a fully functioning stack fully functioning distributed app platform um and uh we will move to 2.0 probably in one and a half or two years later uh which will be far more scalable and functional um but that requires the

solution of some research problems um in the interim we'll be able to release 1.1 1.2 1.3 uh various enhancements that don't affect the protocol right T yeah hi guys I uh I have a question when I talk to investors uh in in the Bitcoin sphere and I asked them about ethereum some of the the feedback I got or the the questions I had back was well how do we know that this is not just some research project that can go on forever but we where we don't know whether it's economically viable uh how do we know

whether this is a NASA that will always require external funding or it's a Virgin Galactic that that is going to be um economically viable can you make the case for the latter like uh and and maybe also include some some some of the plans in terms of timeline like what are the first economically viable projects expected to come out of uh ethereum sure so first of all um we don't have any we are not seeking investors we're not seeking investment we're not offering Securities in any way um we are producing under Swiss law a software product and we're selling a software product um the product will essentially

be a cryptographic fuel that funds operations and uh uh computational Ops and storage operations on the ethereum um application platform uh if businesses want to purchase ether um to use in offering Services if people want to purchase ether to use in uh taking advantage of services on the network um then uh that that that is what we see as uh as the driver of our economy um uh various other groups various groups are already in the process of building distributed applications and we are

building the platform and the entire economy and ecosystem is up to to us and many many other independent players so are you in touch with um startups and uh companies that are building concrete products to be functional on ethereum already you have you have various projects at the moment because we're still in proof of concept phase you have projects that are being built by groups of uh people participating in hackathon for example or people just interested in the technology trying to explore what you just described how can I leverage ethereum to monetize something right how do I leverage the properties of the

ethereum protocol to make better apps um and it's uh it's very interesting um because I think you look at for example the sharing economy um any app that currently puts two individuals in touch with each other in a peer-to-peer fashion say the eBay of this world the Airbnb of this world uh can be replicated on top of ethereum at zero infrastructure cost and can actually operate at almost zero fees it just needs enough crypto field to continue operating um so I think it we'll see the disruption of these economies um if not their destruction um and how do then how do you then um find new value in there well the only people who will profit

will be people who will be finding true value ad not artificially constructed uh fee based system a commission based system on top of a decentralized application probably won't work the the simple reason is everything is open state so Nothing Stops someone else from copying your application and releasing one without say the issuers of whatever crypto token Finance your your business or uh any commission system that could have been put in place they could just change the address of where the money goes to um so I think bringing True Value ad in new models such as for example Insurance um that's where things will be uh will be more interesting financially for application developers

and also of course you know the the the fact that ethereum is still decentralized doesn't preclude the possibility to have a web server talking to another in blockchain uh providing unique value and may propriatary systemss um in order to what to sell a product just um like a an estimate of the the first applications you expect to be functional just like many there there will be a layer of uh uh distributed app utilities uh distributed ID reputation systems wallet system uh distributive exchange um a wide variety that businesses can use as

Utilities in in building out their services um and we are talking to and offering support to a bunch of different groups who are building um Insurance uh systems publishing publishing systems escrow content acquisition systems smart contract systems um Juris Prudence systems sort of trying to format um law basically govern so for the most promising of those are we talking 6 months 12 months 24 months uh five years I mean what's the what's the time frame for the first projects to be the only the only point at which any applications become Val and

live is when our own network goes live our Network goes live end of this year I expect we'll have plenty of applications that launch from the group in touch with including people like airlock for example or Preston bur initiative on a decentralized foundation system Community governance things like that um and reputation system are going to be a huge one because once you once you realize that on ethereum reputation systems there isn't just the one there could be a network of reputation system interacting with each other or they could be reputation systems where for example the reputation that you earned on a decentralized eBay application could go towards your reputation on decentralized Airbnb system that's quite

interesting then you don't you don't quite start from zero um I think we'll see new the door sure it's not hard to imagine a whole economy being built around reputation um you can perhaps sell reputation tokens you can invest in people's reputation you can ensure your own reputation you can create derivatives on reputation um if I were to buy a vitalic token um which maybe promis me some equity in future product projects of his um I think that token would increase in value for for quite a while thanks I'll give it back to Paul now yeah um so one of the questions was also from the audience Tim poor asks is

the launch still PL planned for a Q4 and could you be a bit more specific with the date perhaps yes or no um yeah we uh it really depends on on when things are working and we have been on track so far uh proof of concept version five um is imminent uh people are downloading it regularly and building on top of it uh compiling it and building on top of it and um it will be a compiled version of the different clients will be available very soon um but we're on track so far there's no reason to believe that it'll go uh into next

year okay then there's a question from Conrad barski again um if I build a 1.0 contract for an app that becomes popular and want to move my users over to an improved 2.0 contract it seems like it would be very difficult any advice on how to think about this um you're talking about uh the potential change in the uh in the language um interestingly enough this has already happened we're actually version three of the script the underlying compiled code that bars etherum and one of the one of the vitalic point and I think there's a Blog blog post about this um is the idea that when you go from say a higher level language like Newton or a uh or llll or serpent it compiles down to you know

crossplatform bite code that runs on a VM that code itself uh is is is already been agreed on so even if we make modifications to the higher level language the contracts will continue running also remember the contracts are immutable okay so they're not going to change on the blockchain once they're there they're there um and if you want a new one you need to destroy uh the first one and create a replacement exactly so um it's very likely that we'll have a 1.0 chain and a 2.0 chain running in tandem for quite a while um and you will have to prove destruction of ethereum of ether one uh in order to get an equivalent amount of ether 2 um and we will uh obviously we're going to build a

big code infrastructure into ethereum one and more than that all the users of the system will build ID infrastructure and reputation infrastructure so we will do our best to provide tools to move a lot of that data over yeah actually um the uh proof of burn mechanism to go from V1 to V2 um is just one of the consideration we're having right now I believe that Gavin was working on a Model whereby no action would be necessary everything will just fall across automatically um but that's for Park six so keep an eye out for that one good then there's a question about the hashing algorithms um the question

is from yob harto he asks are there any updates about the hashing algorithms being used in ethereum proof of work dagger or proof of work plus proof of stake slasher or maybe even a newer one no so dagger and slasher forget about them uh we're not going to use this now what we're likely to use is a proof of work algorithm that will be touring complete um in terms of how we Implement touring completeness for the uh for the the hashing algorithm we're looking at various Solutions one of them is to quite simply randomly uh damage contracts uh and force uh a processor that's tur in complete to reconstruct them them um the advantage of that approach is that what's a fast

uh processor that's toing compl it's called the CPU so A6 would basically be uh the equivalent of your Intel CPU which brings the advantage of having decentralization of mining so we don't end up with gigantic mining Farms somewhere in Iceland um that only do this all day long while the users are become dependent on those centralized authorities um there's other Solutions we're exploring and we're also so might consider hybrid proof of work proof of stake algorithms we haven't made a decision on that yet yeah the important point is to make mining centralization part um distributed as widely as possible and um we pretty much come to a consensus that uh we will make a

statement that uh the mining algorithm can and probably will change so it may not be prudent to syn $38 million into an Asic development project okay very interesting and then a question from P Patrick saala from the Netherlands he asks what will it take to build a distributed autonomous Corporation Bank the primary function storing and lending money ethereum is that feasible within a few years to have a fully functional Bank ethereum contracts are basically key value pair stores so if you want to build a bank you build a key value P key value pair store that track balances uh you can actually already do that today that's what our meta coins are you know

the Jeff coin and the Gaff coin which are sort of joke m coins have been implemented on top um there is actually a Stefan coin which is really good much better than all the other ones yes no the answer is uh you know what does it take well key value per store uh that then track balances uh interaction with decentralized exchanges so you probably would have to talk to the guys that are building the decentralized exchange contracts and integrate the two simple as that the the platform it gives so many features to a distributed app for free that it's actually really quite easy to construct a lot of uh applications with sophisticated business logic um the the

players that win in a space like that will offer um user interface and user experience that that is uh compelling to um either early adopters or to my more naive users and actually just to to complete Joseph's point and I think that's probably the most interesting about ethereum is that we've made it so simple to write in high level languages languages that you're already familiar with applications of a type such as for example twister or Bitcoin which have been traditionally really hard to build you have to be a cryptographer you have to understand about hashing and then you have to find a network to secur it and get critical mass in order to get 51% attx I think that's what makes it really

interesting you can build a met coin in in two lines of code that's what you you uh you do in the the early tutorials that we've published so now the question is then what do you do if it's so easy well you got to differentiate yourself so you have to think about what is my insurance model for my metac coin for example it could be uh mapped against uh physical world events such as a production of energy that would be measured at the source and then you could have a solar coin that's actually a real solar coin not an abstraction of energy output or you could have distributed computing projects such as Bo City at home folding at home uh rewarding the users by through the issuance of of meta points or loyalty points as as as cryptocurrencies that would be an interesting one as well uh

if everybody can build a Dogecoin in two lines of code or just press copy paste um you're now forced to differentiate yourself in some way right exactly school kids will be able to create a a Cindy coin to track Cindy's popularity um a business will be able to create an employment contract um click on a click on a template fill in some numbers and some names and words um and it's not hard to imagine that a distributed Bank template will exist in the very near future and you can click on that and maybe customize the code if you want to some degree but uh the the business logic is not going to be that

complicated right we uh also have someone asking what's the purpose of the hubs you're located at maybe Mika you can tell a bit more about the whole olon concept you guys are developing um so maybe some more information about the hubs and and um and how you want to organize that sure uh so uh in Switzerland um so far we have um acted more as an Innovation Hub or research and development and we tackled quite a few uh issues starting from the organizational structure that we we have uh discussed earlier to some of the user interfaces and quite a few others um in uh Toronto we um are located in Bitcoin Central and in there

um we work with uh also the other people and try to see how some of the projects existing projects in the space can um migrate or build on top of ethereum um in Netherlands um we have Jeff Maran and um I'm not sure if there are other programmers or if I'm missing out um on London we have Stephan Gavin and Ian Richard also uh it's more of a creative communication sort of oriented hug um and um did I miss one now Berlin the Berlin one is going to be more oriented towards the C and C++

build of of the Cent and heavy on on the uh software development side now on the on the Holland project uh we we tackled the um that issue from from another angle so uh when when we're talking about cryptocurrencies or um um well the concept itself of a blockchain we feel that it's something very big or something important and a few weeks ago I stumbled upon uh the something and if you go on wikipedia.com and search for collective intelligence you will see that uh it has three pillars and um one of so there are cooperation collaboration and cognition so um if you put it in uh in this uh sort of

framework you you have etherum fulfilling the cooperation side where where it allows people to use the the network of trust and the peer-to-peer business side allowing them to freely engage in trade over the internet and also being an open open software project it allows um you know uh without any restriction people to to innovate uh then uh the Holland project tackles the second pillar which is coordinating Collective action um and you have a pretty good example with the meetups that have spawned around the world I know over 50 now or yeah so uh you have all these passionate people that resonate with the

project and feel that they can bring something to it and the H project basically uh tries to figure a way and a structure that allows and enables these people to um produce work and uh enable them to feel fulfilled in doing uh what they are passionate about so um in in that respect we tackle the issue on on a couple of levels one of it being the social interactions the social dynamics and how we can um make that work in a community space and also a work space that is open for other people to come and share the knowledge um and then we have the software side

which should allow um the the sort of like a mesh Network that allows all these groups to be in sync and and cohesive working towards a common goal change the world in in a sense and bring all these um applications that have disruptive potential in the best interest of of people now the cognition side it's still a question mark how how that is going to work but um with all these passionate people and you know they're saying with enough ice no bug is uh unsolvable uh maybe we can sort that one out and we can ignite this um this revolution where we move from a collected intelligent Society to a

collective intelligence Society right so maybe I should think of setting up something like that here in keto Ecuador as well sure absolutely yeah as we move uh more and more attention and resource into the adoption phase of the project um we will want to interact with uh groups of enthusiasts in hundreds of cities around the planet and and support them in terms of education and promotional events like hackathons um and just really push as much information out to the periphery as possible so that they can be the boots on the ground letting us know what people are thinking um helping uh their local community understand U what

ethereum is and how to work with it um and all a lot of problems are going to be local and the solution should be local right how do you guys look at regulation if you already see that governments struggle to understand Bitcoin basically decentralized payment system so do you expect the governments to struggle a lot with decentralized autonomous corporations and and smart contracts and all these things how are you going to to cope with that are you already talking to governments about this how are you prepared this absolutely uh uh clearly most governments in the world have uh cryptocurrency on their agendas or are actively discussing or uh pursuing in some cases uh different efforts um we

have located in Switzerland um it is a very cryptocurrency favorable um regulatory environment um and we um uh we feel that we have uh an excellent situation in conducting our ether sale here um didn't they just ban the ATM in Switzerland this week I'm sorry didn't they just ban the the installation of an ATM this week in Switzerland it's uh um I've talked directly with the person affected by uh involved in that situation and uh it has been a classic uh you know blowout of propotion in order to increase the ratings and H Ms U

it's a lot uh well a lot less worse I don't know exactly how to come it's it's just a matter of U uh understanding better some of uh some of the issues at hand yeah and also Swiss governance is very strong regionally so what one Canton accepts another Canton might not um and uh we feel very comfortable in this space and it it looks like it's going to it's going to be a uh an excellent growth space for cryptocurrency businesses sry uh just uh with respect to other jurisdictions we are working um through legalities uh to ensure that uh all regulatory bodies and enforcement

bodies understand um the nature of the product sale and that it is not uh in any way a security and I think also going back to the the question I think it was also talking about the smart contracts themselves and uh ifal contract legal contracts Etc which has been a big discussion on on some forums and some channels uh so you have to separate two things the first one what Jose have just described which is the existence of ether ethereum the Genesis cell Etc that's one thing uh we're we're publicly known obviously everything need to be done by the book and then there's the actual existence of the ethereum network and what can run on it um one thing that's very important to

understand is just like reputation systems that we were talking about earlier if you want to have a contractual environment on ethereum between individuals that for example doesn't provide any customer protection you could but you voluntarily enter into this this model if you want one that replicates your local jurisdiction you can have that too if you want to have a brand new one you can have that too and they all Coexist on the ethereum network so ethereum itself isn't an application it's more of a protocol like the cpip in that regard so what exist on it we'll see a mix I'm aware of project led by for example Preston burn uh who's trying to see if he can interact legal contracts from The Real World with smart contracts on the ethereum world um if he

succeeds and if it's indeed possible to create a link I think that's a very good thing but that doesn't mean that someone could not create a contract that doesn't abide by his local regulations or his local jurisdiction it's it will be coming up to the application forr so there will be quite a few few months before uh the release of ethereum in Q4 so in the meantime what do you require from the community how can we how can we help you can yeah I think one of the the the biggest misconceptions that we have seen around was that this idea that theum is uh um fixed and in uh in stone and like it's a developed project no it's an open- source project and uh it will

drive um if the community gets involved and after all it's uh the idea the idea that was born by from P's mind that has drawn all of us together so um just get involved visit the forums um submit po request to GitHub yeah uh you know the both the go uh everything in ethereum is absolutely open sourceable to all um everything without exception um under MIT license um therefore you know by all means if you're a good developer if you're a C++ developer if you're a python developer come and come and help us out if you're implementing ethereum in a different language we're familiar with projects that for example have

implemented ethereum in both Java and Objective C we want to talk to you guys um that kind of stuff I'd also like to to add that uh since the the project has so many implications uh it's not limited only to developers so if you have other interests like social anthropology or any areas regarding regarding human interactions and culture and organizations in general please feel free to get in touch we could use uh more brains to tackle some of the issues cool if you're software uh if you're a software developer or business developer and you have some cool ideas for building distributed apps or services on the

platform um there the languages that you can Implement your ideas in are very easy to learn and people are already building experimental projects and putting experimental user interfaces together on them and just trying to have to figure out the best methods of programming on this this new application platform um if we're successful um we will be building on alternative economy a whole ecosystem so there are going to be literally hundreds or thousands of business verticals that people can fill in and compete in and many of those verticals we can't even fathom at this point right okay well we promise to do it 30 minutes do

30 minutes I'm sorry my connection is sorry my connection slow shall we do um two more questions do two more questions as many as you want we're good yeah okay so can you make any prediction or maybe a bit of extra applications in to unmute uh yeah to you muted us

sorry guys sorry guys okay um so any any sort of uh estimate on blockchain size would be pure speculation at this point um we do anticipate uh running into blockchain bloat issues uh issues of trying to stuff a lot of computation into one minute block times um we are working on various different ideas various different types of Shar stting ideas that will ideally enable us to um either be running multiple simultaneous blockchains that coordinate with one another um uh essentially having more localized still distributed but more

localized in address space activities um yet still maintain a single coherent view of of what's going on on the network um these are research problems uh version 1.0 will not be able to take advantage of too many of those mechanisms although some of that is in the works right now uh version 2.0 will ideally benefit from something called the cryptocurrency research group it's a group of scientists in different disciplines that we have been talking to um and we hope to help fund uh some of their research which will be generally beneficial to the cryptocurrency community um and specifically uh hopefully help us overcome some of those

issues okay okay then a question from will ethereum be oronym by default it's uh it is and will pseudonymous uh I I'm actually myself very interested in seeing an implementation of a zero cash zero coin type contract on top of ethereum for obvious reasons um the downside of that if you could call it that is that takes a lot of resource at the moment to run is zero cach implementation as a contract on eor obviously optimizations are possible but we will not uh deviate from our principle of um keeping the

blockchain total neutral non-discrimination principle and so on it's unlikely we'll back that feature in it'll have to be developed at some for as as some form of service on top of the yeah we're doing our best to be feed feure free uh it's a computationally complete environment and you can build anything on it um it's just a question of whether what you build is economic all right let me just mute you guys cently okay another question another question kind of philosophical philosoph Patrick says isation just currency repeat that isn't reputation just a

currency I think it's Bitcoin M who's muting us don't mute us we have things to say yes absolutely uh in fact I think that uh we're we're progressing towards an environment in which you are your own currency your reputation your actions um money is not just a means of exchange but more a measure of your of your values I can tell me how I wants to say something so yeah so it's the question goes on what is currency in the first place and what is currency if not some sort of like measuring stick uh uh that sort of represents the value you can

bring through your skills set um brought bring that value into society or your your local group so um currency itself as an idea is an abstraction layer so this is just another step into the digital realm that allows this sort of currency form to move from a localized version to a more globalized yeah and I I can tell you that the people working in the field of you know what's called open Money Mutual Credit Systems and uh um capacity markets are very very interested in ethereum and there's already multiple initiatives to try to implement them right okay I'm just going to mute

you briefly because you're uh echoing a bit from a question is from um masterclass Brazil how do we have to position to open transactions project would you see it as competition complimentary or as a completely different project yeah you're back on you mute us we have to unmute us I'm trying it's a it's a complimentary project uh we're we're in contact with them it's an interesting technology uh which brings in uh if your viewers aren't familiar it brings in some elements of trustless from the blockchain world and to decentralize

Federated servers via voting pool mechanism um so it's something I would see ethereum interact uh quite well with uh but that's true for actually a very large number of projects such as uh either decentralized Computing like urbit or decentralized networking like open liet um they are very compatible projects um in the ecosystem right now regarding the the specific question uh yesterday or or like this week chis Odum um I think has uh decided to settle in Switzerland and we are uh like literally 10 15 minutes away from where they are working so we are friends and it feels

like some sort of crypto valy concept forms and it's not necessarily only crypto currency related but you also have companies like Silent Circle and so on coming to towards uh Switzerland so who knows yeah the two technologies are very complimentary and and we have from the outside intended to work together right okay up now um T do you have any uh final question for um for the ethereum guys no but uh I'll be following it closely uh yours you I don't have any questions but just for the Dutch audience I mean I'm organizing the Amsterdam ethereum

Meetup we already have 130 members so if you're based in the nland or even in Belgium we had guys coming over from Brussels last time please hit us up at uh etherum meetup.com there you can search for your local Meetup and just get get organized as a community community okay that's uh that's good um that's good um do great work we uh we really appreciate it thanks thanks okay well done fin ethereum guys something you want to add or you want to share with the audience audience thank you thank you and let's do this yeah cool okay fin words let's do this all

together okay thanks guys and guys another time the sure thank you for having Bye by