Davos Is On, Market Is Shaky, Saylor & Lee Keep Buying, Big Week For FHE & Cap's ICO on Uniswap CCA

Transcript

[music] [music] I'm about the [music] >> [music] >> How the mother the back [music] [music]

the >> [music] [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, [music] Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next [music] level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. [music] He said it. He finally said it. Go boys, boys. I'm push [music] [music]

[music] the >> [music] [music] >> How about the [music] [music] mother? >> [music] >> I'm the mother.

[music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> How the [ __ ] [music] is heading to the [music] top? If we're not already at the top, we're going to the target. We're on fourth floor today.

We're going to be on floor one and then we're headed straight to the moon, boys. [applause] >> Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we are liberated again. Tariffs are back. Oh, wait. No, they're not. Yes, they are. No, they're not. There's no more tariffs, but the US is making a strong, strong push into Greenland. Uh, all the fun is happening at Davos, but you're here watching the rollup and we're glad that you are because we're having some fun here, too. Uh, I saw Trump give a speech. I saw him cracking on Canada. I saw him coming after uh all of the Scandinavian nations, all of the European nations. Um, he met with the

leader of NATO. Um, which if we're putting our geopolitical hats on, doesn't it benefit everyone that the US has a stronger uh influence in the region so that they can continue to build out? They're responsible. None of the European nations are responsible for security of the region. The US is the strong man of NATO. it makes sense for them to come more into the region and support the entire region by building this Arctic dome that's going to defend against all the missiles China and Russia are going to throw towards Europe and the rest of the West. I don't know.

But if I'm a European country, why do I care about Greenland? I haven't used it for national security yet. I might as well let America have And does America really need all of Greenland? I bet this ends up looking like America gets like a piece of Greenland. We put a military base on it. We build out this Arctic dome infrastructure. We shoot down missiles. And the Greenland people become rich because we pay them. Denmark can tax us or tariff us or whatever they they need to do to get their piece of the deal. America doesn't need all of it. They just need a piece of Greenland to advance the security of not just America as a nation of the entire West and NATO as an entire alliance. I think

it benefits the Europeans and the Americans to share Greenland. But this is not a political show. This is a show about NEO finance and we're going to be talking about uh FHE. We're going to be talking about stable coins and we're going to be talking about how all of this shakes out because there's been a lot obviously Green Greenland's been in the news. Lot is happening in Davos all the world economic uh forum and uh the powers that be are discussing the state of the world economic order. I think it's quite interesting actually Ray Dallio went on CNBC. I was watching this segment just a just a few hours ago and he's talking about how fiat currencies are no longer

a thing. This is something that as Bitcoiners and and crypto people we knew for some time. But it's interesting to now see the legacy financial elite to accept that the fiat economic order is collapsing right before our eyes. And we can see this by central banks not investing into bonds. the bond market. If you see what's happening in Japan, this is falling apart. This is having spillover effects economy. We're going to be talking more about that. And then obviously what's happening in Greenland and tariffs being put into the EU are now rescended. That is not going to be happening. So I think it was a combination of effect. It was a multi

multi multitude of factors that caused this most recent draw down because if you looked >> there was a lot of bullish sentiment that happened before this most recent draw down. Everyone's flying, you know, oh, you know, we're in a bare market. That was a bare market rally, a dead cap bounce. We're going lower. We're going to 65K. >> I don't know. I continue to think that look, this is a pretty good time to just accumulate in the chop and stay extremely patient. Maybe we go a little lower, maybe we bounce around a little bit higher, but to to me it doesn't seem as if we're going to go dramatically in one direction, >> you know, in in some short time frame. I I tend to think we're going to chop a

little bit longer. We're going to form out this bottom. And then I I really don't think that we're going to get too much lower because if you do look at the recent rally in gold, a lot of the same reasons gold is rallying, >> the same reasons I believe Bitcoin will rally very soon. And then obviously the wealth effect will take take hold and and spread throughout crypto as an industry. Um Ray Dallio was saying how central banks are pretty much caught off guard. They're off sides. They don't own enough gold and they've been overleveraged and overinvested into fiat currencies and bonds for too long. The the economic and world order is sort of shifting. These tectonic plates are changing. So, they're reallocating away

from bonds into something that is a lot more independent uh from central banks. Even if a central bank has its independence, gold and bitcoin are much much more independent than any fiat currency. And I anticipate we're going to continue to go in that trend. So, personally think gold still has some room and I think Bitcoin has still a lot of room as it catches up and then supersedes what we're seeing happen in sovereign hard assets like gold and silver. So, that's a little bit in the neoinance world. We've got some news in terms of tokenized gold and other tokenized offerings because ultimately blockchain is removed from all of this.

It's a better technology and we believe that a lot of these asset classes, not the fiat asset classes, those are dead and gone. We believe that the sovereign hard assets where the central banks are going where people that are smart and recognize the debasement trade they see the potential of hard assets we believe these are coming onchain and the asset classes around these like the money market funds and the rest of the neo finance landscape is moving onchain that is going to have spillover effects into the blockchains the L1's these tokens as adoption and activity on these chains increases is this is just re raw fundamentals. More activity, more fees, more revenue. Ultimately, we believe

that these token models are going to be corrected as they start to resemble companies with a proper treasury management. These tokens are poised to do well as they figure out the activity and the adoption grows. So, that's my rant on the state of affairs. Before we have our first guest join us and we discuss the privacy sector of a FHE, obviously Zama's auction is now live. Suggest everyone gets involved because it is uh one of the more uh rigorous and robust privacy projects that's out there. So, let's get into some news.

Let's bring it up on the screen. And uh Leo, we're going to fly through this. So, feel free to go rather quickly as I as we cycle through here. Let's do a quick standby before we get uh before we get our first headline up. Yeet is built for big moments. The most fun you'll ever have with your crypto. Go to yeet.com to yeet into your next game. Not your keys, not your [music] coins.

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Yeet is built for big moments. The most fun you'll ever have with your crypto. Go to yeet.com to yeet into your next game. Not your keys, not your coins. From the team that pioneered cold storage, Treasure has just released its new wallet. Guys, [music] if you are still using hot wallets in 2025, 2026, you are missing the entire [music] point. Secure your coins. Get a treasure at treasure.io.

[music] Go anywhere onchain instantly with Relay.link. Relay is closing in on 10 billion transferred. Go to relay.link to bridge [music] your assets now. Money shouldn't wait for Mondays. Following his Rio upgrade, Polygon is now one of the fastest chains for stable coin transfers [music] and payments. Visit Polygon Technology to learn more. KHI is the world's largest [music] prediction market. You can trade on anything in all 50 states. Go to

cshi.com to [music] trade today. Talk to AI like your lawyer or your doctor or your therapist. Yours, private and here today. Visit near.ai to have a fully private chat experience. Havachi is fast and private per trading secured by ZK with Celestia underneath.

[music] Go to habachi.xyz to start trading today. [music] Looking for yield that stands out? Infinify [music] gives you just that. Deposit stable coins and earn far more than the current savings rate. Infinify is a battle tested, reliable DeFi platform that is [music] ready to go. Head to infinifi.xyz. Holiday is unified crypto payments. Give your users more wherever they are. Go to holiday.xyz to never write a smart contract again.

Open, stable, borderless. Frack is building the next generation of stablecoin infrastructure for the digital finance era. Visit frack.com to learn more today. Yeet is built for big moments, the most fun you'll ever have with your crypto. Go to yeet.com to yeet into your next game. Not your keys, not your coins. From the team that pioneered cold storage, Treasure has just released its new wallet. Guys, [music] if you are still

using hot wallets in 2025, 2026, you are missing the entire point. Secure your coins. [music] Get a Treasure at treasure.io. Go anywhere onchain instantly with relay.link. Relay is closing in on 10 billion transferred. Go to relay.link to bridge [music] your assets now. Money shouldn't wait for Mondays.

Following his Rio upgrade, Polygon is now one of the fastest chains for stable coin transfers [music] and payments. Visit Polygon Technology to learn more. [music] KHI is the world's largest [music] prediction market. You can trade on anything in all 50 states. Go to kshi.com to [music] trade today. Talk to AI like your lawyer or your doctor or your therapist. Yours, private and here today. Visit near.ai to have a fully private chat experience.

Havachi is fast [music] and private per trading secured by ZK with Celestia underneath. Go to habachi.xy XYZ to start trading today. [music] Looking for yield that stands out? Infinify gives you just that. Deposit stable coins and earn far more than the current savings rate. Infinify is a battle tested, reliable DeFi platform that is ready to go. Head to infinifi.xyz. XYZ.

Holiday is unified crypto payments. Give your users more wherever they are. Go to holiday.xyz to never write a smart contract again. Open, stable, borderless. FRA is building the next generation of stablecoin infrastructure for the digital finance era. Visit frack.com to learn [music] more today. Yeet is built for big moments. The most fun you'll ever have with your crypto.

Go to yeet.com to yeet into your next game. >> [music] >> Not your keys, not your coins. From the team that pioneered cold storage, Treasure has just released its new wallet. Guys, if you are still using hot wallets in 2025, 2026, you are missing the entire [music] point. Secure your coins. Get a Treasure at treasure.io. Go anywhere onchain instantly with relay.link. Relay is closing in on 10 billion dollar transferred. Go to

relay.link to bridge your assets now. Money shouldn't wait for Mondays. Following his real upgrade, Polygon is now one of the fastest chains for stable coin transfers [music] and payments. Visit Polygon Technology to learn more. >> [music] >> KHI is the world's largest prediction market. You can trade on anything in all 50 states. Go to kshi.com to trade today.

Talk to AI like your lawyer or your doctor or your therapist. Yours, private, and here today. Visit near.ai AI to have a fully private chat experience. Havachi is fast and private per trading secured by ZK with Celestia underneath. Go to habachi.xyz to start trading today. [music] Looking for yield that stands out?

Infinify gives you just that. Deposit stable coins and earn far more than the current savings rate. Infinify is a battle tested, reliable DeFi platform that is ready to go. Head to infinifi.xyz. Holiday is unified crypto payments. Give your users more wherever they are. Go to holiday.xyz XYZ to never write a smart contract again. Open, stable, borderless. FRA is building the next generation of stable

coin infrastructure for the digital finance era. Visit frack.com to learn more today. Yeet is built for big moments. The most fun you'll ever have with your crypto. Go to yeet.com to yeet into your next game. [music] Not your keys, not your coins. From the team that pioneered cold storage, Treasure has just released its new wallet. Guys, [music] if you are still using hot wallets in 2025, 2026, you are missing the entire point. Secure your

coins. Get a treasure [music] at treasure.io. Go anywhere onchain instantly with Relay.link. Relay is closing in on 10 billion transferred. Go to relay.link to bridge your assets now. Money shouldn't wait for Mondays. Following his real upgrade, Polygon is now one of the fastest chains for stable [music] coin transfers and payments.

Visit Polygon Technology to learn more. [music] KHI is the world's largest [music] prediction market. You can trade on anything in all 50 states. Go to call sheet.com to trade today. Talk to AI like your lawyer or your doctor or your therapist. Yours, private and here today. Visit near.ai to have a fully private chat experience.

All right, we are back, guys. And we are here with Guy and Guy. We're gonna say Guy I and Guy Z from Phoenix. Uh and uh we're talking privacy, which has been a super hot topic as of late. We actually had Zama's founder Rand on. They're running an auction right now. Uh they're doing great work in the privacy space. Of course, we've seen Monero, we've seen Zcash, and we've seen the resurgence of privacy as a concept really take take hold of people and get very very exciting. Um, you guys are working on FHE as well. And so I I'm curious as you guys see this resurgence in privacy, man, just tell us how tell us how it feels, you know, working on a privacy protocol. Um, and of course, guys, welcome welcome back to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you, Robbie. It's it's good to be here. Honestly, we've been uh taken by surprise by the recent surge in privacy. Like we've we've been talking about it for many years. We've been working on it for many years. Obviously, we're big believers in that, but it's it's it's always been something of like a feature that people put in the back burner like an issue that we will deal with like sometime in the future. And it's very interesting and even again surprising how this is becoming top of mind for so many people now. Yeah. And and Guy, I I mean, give us a give us an update on how things have developed over recent months. Um because I think you know both you guys were on the show a

couple years ago. Obviously, a lot of this was still in the research phase, right? It wasn't even research and development. It was still we had to fundamentally understand some of the math and science at the core levels of this cryptography. what has been the developments in the FHE space uh up until recently and how has Phoenix uh you know scaled in recent months? >> Uh yeah, of course. So I think you're you're spot on that there's been uh a good amount of interest happening around privacy in the last couple of months. Um our journey when we started Phoenix it was about two two and a half years ago.

We actually started Phoenix as an L2. Um that was the original premise. We thought that that's the right path, but very quickly we came to the realization that that what people need is the ability to get privacy where they're at and not so much try to force them to move to another chain or build something which is privacy first uh versus privacy as a service. Um so around late 2024 early 2025 we shifted into the co-processor architecture which you can think about it as privacy as a service that now taps very nicely to EVM chains and enables developers in that space with a few lines of code to now start introducing privacy into their smart

contracts. Um, our product specifically runs on like a couple of chains, but I think the main objective here is to make it as seamless as possible from a developer standpoint and also from the user experience. We can we can talk about that later on, but make the integration very very smooth. Um, because if you're assuming that the developers would need to understand FH and understand cryptography and understand the nitty-gritty, I think you're you're losing the battle already before before you start. Yeah. So um as I said a core processor very easy to use SDK and then of course you have the lower tier which is to make sure that the privacy solution works.

Yeah I I'll I'll continue. There was a little bit background noise to make that the privacy solution works for multiple guarantees. a that there is no trust in unnecessary components like trusting the hardware that the FH performance are as fast as they should and I think there is a lot of progression that happened in that space in the last couple of months. Uh happy to to give a bit more about it in a minute. >> For anyone who's unfamiliar, give us a bit of a background on how you plan on taking this to market because again I think a lot of people were familiar with it while it was still in research and development. they're not ready or they're they don't fully comprehend how this is tangible, how they're ready to see this application into the market.

What are some of the integrations that you guys have now and and how do you see this complementing the market and filling any gaps that that are currently exist? I probably probably for you as well. >> Yeah. Um so you you're you're 100% correct that you know people do see privacy as something which was maybe still in research phase and as we start coming and saying hey but it's actually ready now and you can deploy it now the realization together with the level of interest start to come into this funnel of projects that are actually now going live. So we have projects that are building on us that are doing confidential payments, confidential

stable coin, uh protecting against me resistance. If I have to summarize it, I would say it's the first thing is to understand usages that need privacy that has a valid interest in privacy. A lot of what we're seeing these days is more around the payment and stable coin space and then bringing an offering which makes it very easy to to to deploy. So as an example, our SDK, which is going to come in like two weeks, will now offer the ability for stable coin issuers to very natively issue a stable coin that supports a private and public mode. So once you have that stable coin, you can flip between a private and a public mode. You can use it as a public

stable coin for everything that you need. But if you now want to transfer it to somebody else very quickly, switch it into a private mode, transition it, or hold it with everything onchain. as private and shielded and then have the way to to to continue using it if you want to change it back and forth. So that is an example of where there is a clear value but it's also very easy to deploy and users and developers can actually understand that quite quickly. An open question to both of you guys. What is what do you say to the people that still have the belief, hey, you know, crypto is for drug dealers and scammers? You know, this is this is private. Like, why do we need privacy?

This is just anonymous technology that for the criminals, you know, it's going to help them do do what they're doing. Like, h how do you how do you help people overcome some of this rhetoric? I simply sent them the P we did with JP Morgan about a year ago where it was like they requirement. They were saying the opposite. They were like they were actually coming and saying we need more privacy like we don't need just confidentiality. We need anonymity. We need all of that. Obviously there's there there's um there there's um um a requirement for compliance as well from these organizations. But they literally are saying like we cannot come on chain unless we can protect our own customers privacy the same way we do it offchain.

So that's to me that is that is like the best proof that we need this to actually cross the chasm and not just be like in this cryptoland and actually get the masses and the institutionals into what we've been building for so many years. >> Yeah. And and what do they tell you? though they currently have a a privacy landscape and confidentiality with customer deposits and as they're circulating their own internal you know customer funds. Give us a deeper sense of of as much as you can share don't you know we don't want to put you guys in trouble with JP Morgan but like help us understand more about the use case that banks and financial institutions are looking at when they're looking at private stable coins.

It's not just private stable coins like it's like for example with JP Morgan it was and this is public so I think I can talk about it. Um they it's stable coin is a part of it but it's really about tokenizing everything. So they have very illquid funds that are very very hard to tokenize especially on in more like traditional market rails. It would be so much easier if they can just take something like a real estate fund or a private equity fund and just say, "Hey, you know, we get the approvals to to issue that. Where do we issue that?" We just put it as a smart contract on chain and and bam, it's done. And then through JP Morgan system, you know, a client can click to invest in that tokenized fund and that's it. But I mean, this is

great. Obviously, that's a new offering. That's a new revenue source for JP Morgan. But at the same time um JP Morgan is like no I cannot now like they have liability if their own customer's information for example when a customer is investing in that tokenized fund and those are publicly available and whenever they try to a change a position that is something that everyone in the world can see. I mean, that just sounds ridiculous to someone like JP Morgan because lack of a better term, their own clients can probably sue them uh for not like following their own privacy protections law that we have in the United States.

So, it's it's really as simple as that. >> Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. Anything to add guy? >> Yeah. Um we did a very extensive like a product market fit research about six months ago and the outcome of that product market fit was that there is a lot of interest on the confidentiality aspect of it but for institutional less about the anonymity and as time progressed we actually learned that it it actually shifting and if up until recently we thought that most of the institutional care about hiding the content of the transaction but not necessarily who does the transaction We're now actually seeing that there is also a demand for anonymity, but it's all gated under the assumption that

there is a compliance aspect to that. The goal is not to hide identity to avoid tax or anything like that. It's really about getting the benefit from both sides. So to have the KYC to have a the moneyaundering anything that's required around that part but also have the ability to do a KYT to know the transactions under certain conditions while maintaining full privacy and full anonymity and and how do you do it because it sounds like you're asking hey I want to be protected but I actually want to be compliant and I think this is where the underlying cryptography that we're using FHE shines. minds when you

compare it to like other alternatives and and this is really where we're building the product towards >> about FHE extensively on the show how it differs from ZK and how you know with FHE you can you can prove the uh the computations without necessarily revealing some of the internal components and so I think this is extremely powerful um as you're talking to banks and financial institutions that have come to know and expect the privacy because it's been offchain. There hasn't been any means for someone to publicly view all the transactions in the ledger.

This is something that comes out of blockchain. Uh and it's a feature and a bug depending on the use case and so we can kind of protect against that uh when it when it is available on chain. But you know there are other teams that are developing FHE. So I'm curious you know how you guys fit into this landscape and into the privacy landscape in general. Like I mentioned, Zama, you know, uh, the other day and their auction is using a lot of this FHE underneath the hood. So, you know, have you guys worked together in the past? What what is your take on some of the other privacy institutions and the other the other players in this landscape? How do you fit, you know, with the rest of the players in this market?

>> That's a loaded question. Let me guy let me unpack it first and then I think it'd be worth it to get your perspective too. So um first of all the there there are different layers of this. So on the front end we are um putting a lot of time like like doing like market research. We actually have like this internal red team model where you have the infrastructure developer team, development team building the product and then we have the application teams. Um and then we have the applications team which is basically trying to build next door applications on the infrastructure and then what happens is that they kind

of fight each other right like the application team is saying the user experience is not good enough. We need those features, we need those improvements so that we can develop a better developer experience for the outside. And this model has been working very very well. And in general, I think really that our um developer experience when it comes to privacy on chain is unparalleled. Like I don't think there is any team that gets even close to what we're offering. Um though this is evolving very fast, but I'm really proud of like what what we're doing there. And then more on the back end. Uh so some uh thing that people don't don't know about is uh about a a month ago we announced

uh this new FHE scheme. So we're building a completely new FH scheme from scratch. It has a lot of benefits, but the bottom line is that we think this could be the FHE scheme that gets us to Visa scale. So think like 10,000 transactions a second encrypted and and and you can do that like as easily with like just a few GPUs. So that's something that we have the research out and we're currently actively developing. Um and obviously expect to hear much more about that. Uh but if people want to search that and it's called DBFV um there's some information online you can see especially if you're technical right now.

>> Yeah. And and maybe just to add on top of that and if I take it maybe a bit uh on on an upper level first of all there is always this discussion between FH and TEES and I think the uh attacks that happened around TES towards uh last year really demonstrated the vulner vulnerabilities of TEES and drove even more interest and awareness around the FH space. So for us, you know, there's always this question like, should I develop using a TE or should I develop an FPG? And I think now it becomes very clear that if you really want something that has strong security guarantees and zero trust on hardware, FHE is the way to go. And then the next question is okay, but is is FH ready? Is it still like in in in research phase? And and

the short answer is it's definitely ready. So it's ready for all the use cases that we described before. And you can see products being built on top of of of FHE based infrastructure. So if we want to break down the FH ecosystem, so yes, there are definitely uh several companies that are working Zama who are doing a really good job, Phoenix and and a few others. And now it's the question, okay, how do we bring the most value out of it? And that the developer experience is clearly one that is highly important if we want to make it again as seamless as possible for the developers. And then there is the lower tier which is let's now all of us work each on their own

route to make it faster to make it with low latency high throughput and I think we're uh the DBF research that we that we shared is is a breakthrough in our opinion um and and we're really excited about that future >> and you know we we talked about value curl quite a bit um and how for instance the stable coin stack we kind of see you know the issue ers and the reserve managers on one side and the apps on the other. Kind of this barbell approach as far as where the value ends up acrewing. Uh similarly, right, we had kind of this this thesis of like the fat app thesis or the fat uh protocol thesis. Maybe you guys saw that and and the value tends to kind of flow to either end of the

spectrum. I'm curious when it comes to the privacy stack, you know, the FHEs, the ZKS, the cryptography protocols and then, you know, the the apps and the infrastructure on either side, where where do you guys see value acrewing? Um how how should we think about this? Uh is it kind of just a service that you know is provided to the market, everyone is able to get encryption or is there another way to think about value acrruel in the privacy space? >> We're working a lot on value acrruel. I think crypto has finally um is finally maturing to the place where value cool is very important. Uh I actually still believe in the fed protocol thesis. I just think that it needs to be refined a bit and it's

obviously not every protocol is able to extract uh value in in a meaningful way. Not extract but like receive it let's say part of the of the value chain. Um so we're actually building like the economic model of our network as we speak but like we are treating revenue as a first class citizen and to be clear we are treating network revenue like the goal we are very much big believers in like being like this open source protocol layer that's very aligned with Ethereum very open for everyone and and if you're part of our ecosystem you will enjoy that value capture but we are putting value capture from privacy uh as a first class

citizen. Uh the current model we are working with is this new idea called total value encrypted or TVE where it really needs to measure uh the amount of value that's like stored in the system that's shielded. So anytime you shield the token that adds up to the total value encrypted pool and that and from that you are able to derive a fee and also every time you obviously utilize and you transact with FH components in there then you you're able to um uh take a fee from that obviously it needs to be reasonable nothing substantial but definitely something that justifies the level of cryptography and service that

we provide to other chains. It it makes sense and and you know it's it's a question that I see circulating you know on Twitter quite a bit because for instance a lot of these financial institutions are coming on chain they're tokenizing a lot of their products um and people are asking like you know the New York Stock Exchange said that they want to tokenize and they want to go 247 markets and that sounds great because like they're tokenizing right they're bringing you know the US equities market on chain but then people ask themselves you know how does this help buy my bags like how does this help crypto right and and I think people are skeptical because it's like you know okay well this asset maybe I have say I have all my you know uh my net worth in ETH for instance

right and you know they tokenize US equities well asset that asset class is not ETH right so that's one thing and then the other thing is well if they launch the tokenized product on a on a private blockchain or you know a New York stock exchange permission blockchain with their own valid validator set, how does that really help, you know, the broad open permissionless ecosystem? I think this is a question that's circulating in a lot of people's minds. How how do you guys approach this? Um, you know, open question to both of you guys. >> Well, I think we actually have an advantage here because we're not trying to be a rollup or a chain, but we're actually trying to be an extension to any chain. So, let's say the New York Stock Exchange decides to run like what kind of like Silk and others have been

doing or even Bass, you know, they're trying to run their own stock exchange on their own Ethereum fork. That might not be as great to Ethereum, which by the way, I personally would not like because I'm a big Ethereum believer. But when it comes to Phoenix, you know, is really the New York Stock Exchange equipped to developing their own privacy and FA infrastructure. I mean, that's more like a service that they would want to appropriate into their own chain. We can do that in a very easy plugandplay way and then it's like, okay, like we're giving you a service like a SAS provider. it makes sense that we and our and anyone who's holding our token uh will receive you know some fee from

that. So I think we're a bit more neutral in that sense, but that makes it easier for us to actually uh take a fee from as a service provider for more chains whatever where they go. >> Same exact topic when we were still building Phoenix as as an L2. Um and it became very clear from various reasons. the value pool is one of them, but just the ability to bring the capabilities closer to the developers on the chains that they're at with the the privacy as a service kind of architecture is really the right way from both reaching out to the broader ecosystem but also have the ability to get total value acroal coming

from multiple chains. >> You know, you're going out there, you're talking to market participants. JP Morgan's a a big one and uh you know you're realizing what their problems are and you're solving you know for some of these use cases and uh I I think you know these are what this is what it takes to find product market fit you know for so long the crypto L2s were all just hey come build on us another another L2 you know you guys took a very different approach and I think it's paying off as you guys are finding crypto uh finding product market fit uh so kudos on all the great work so far and and uh thank you for coming on the show it's an absolute pleasure to to see you both again and uh looking forward to have you guys on again when uh you know

privacy comes around. Inevitably, it always does. Privacy goes out of favor and it always comes back. No surprise. >> Absolutely. >> All right. Yeah, we we continue to see privacy as a narrative just continue to take hold. I think, you know, as we kind of opened up the show, people are losing faith in fiat currencies. This whole debasement trade, privacy is sort of a a natural, you know, knock-on effect of this as people sort of, you know, separate and and kind of take on their own sovereignty.

Continue to find that in the financial ecosystem as well. And so no no surprise that encrypted money uh is taking quite quite a hold and uh we're continuing to see more and more of this. Uh our next guest we're going to cycle over in just a bit. We're going to get Ben and Dave DeFi Dave uh from the Cap Money team. They're going to be on talking about stable coins and I'd imagine that private stable coins are going to come up with them as well. And so guys, don't go anywhere. We are going to be right back after this. Um, and yeah, let's do a quick commercial break and then we'll be right back.

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[music] Money shouldn't wait for Mondays. Following his real upgrade, Polygon is now >> [music] >> Welcome back to another episode of Stabled Up, our premier weekly show covering the ins and outs of digital dollars, stable coins, and the future of decentralized finance. The >> show is made possible by FRA and FRA is powering the financial engine of the internet, powering FRXUSD and genius compliant stable coins. This is the stablecoin super cycle made possible by FRA. Now enjoy Stabled Up, [music] our weekly stable coin show.

Beautiful. We're back. We've got Stabled Up. We've got Dave and we've got Ben. And >> stabled up. That's right. >> We are stabled up. That is our segment. We are powered uh by Fracks, which is uh the sponsor of the segment. But we are we are fired up. Um and >> I just wore my Frack sweatshirt today work. [laughter] >> Let's go. And so guys, you you've got um uh you've got a stable drop coming and so you've been building obviously uh for quite a long time. Um and so I want to get the latest because you guys have been on the show, friends of the show.

Um and I think the last time you guys were on was a few months ago. So please give us the update on on what has transpired over the last few months and and catch us up on stable drop. >> Yeah, I mean we've been building, man. We've been uh we've only been live for five months. Uh we have around almost 500 million TVL all organic so none of these uh opaque side deals just people liking yield people liking uh safe safe DeFi. Uh but maybe Dave you can tell us a little bit more about like the stable drop is the stable drop not just any >> yeah and yeah it's not just any stable drop but the stable drop and I want to start with we all know that uh token distributions are broken. We've seen time and time again we've seen airdrops

happen. people get the airdrops, they dump. There's even we've seen the whole game with sex listings basically from the get-go of tokens. Uh they just have a a bad start and we want to completely revamp that playbook and instead of giving tokens uh to people that were early users of our protocol because let's be real, they were a huge part of our success. They're the ones that almost got us to 500 million. So we want to reward them properly and at the same time we want to eliminate uncertainty for them. So we decided instead of giving them tokens we're going to give them stable coins. Uh and that eliminates >> first time first time ever anybody gives stable coins.

>> Yeah. And so that eliminates uncertainty for them the early users. Uh they don't have to play this game of chicken like oh like should I hold like oh is someone going to jump on me? None of that's going to happen. And this is especially good for you know the to the buyers and the participants in the ICO because they don't have to worry about this overhang with the with the airdrop because it's a stable drop. Uh so we're really excited about this mechanism. Uh we've seen a lot of great reaction to it online. A lot of builders that we respect uh such as David from UFCI uh the founder of neutral uh they've all actually became are huge fans uh of the stable drop and I think you know we're going to see a trend. This this is the first stable drop, but I'm sure it won't be the last.

>> I I think it's incredible that you guys are doing this like for for the entire crypto economy to and just community to think that we're like entitled to like the stake of some people's companies. It is first of all, it's just incredible. You don't see this in web 2. You don't see this in legacy finance. Obviously, people try to game it, you know, with the airdrop. They want to, you know, give enough of the token supply to their community as to like not piss off their community, but not so much that they're giving away their own equity, you know, that they worked hard for. So, it's not like you guys have to do this, you know, like you guys built this, you guys don't have to do this, but you're choosing to give, you know, something back to the community anyway. So, give us a give us

some of the this the tokconomics around this, you know, like you guys have been live, you guys have been in mainet. What made you decide like okay this is the time to do this is now even after we're live we want to do the stable drop how much of the supply are you guys doing how much is like the total value give us give us some of the numbers behind you know this this activation >> well the goal here is all about following game three theory right from the beginning we have this fundamental belief that people will do whatever is best for them right and so that's why we're dividing you know users that are here for yield and users are here for points. So from the beginning, people had to choose. Do you want to stake your CUSD and get yield which is like six 7%

or do you want to not stake it and you get points and you don't know what you're going to get, right? And now they find out that they get stable coins. And so why why are we doing this? Well, um you know, we want to make sure that at TGE the only people that have the token are the people that paid for it, the people that all have the same cost basis. That's why it won't be a game of chicken of who sells first, who buys first, and you know, how long do I have to wait for the airdrop people to dump and so um to answer your question about tokconomics um at TG 10% of the uh circulating supply will have been sold to these ICO participants. So people that participate in unis swap CCA will get 10% of our token supply and they

will be the only guys holding our token at TG. separately, you have these um points farmers and early users and they're going to get stable coins. We can't say how much just yet because uh the these campaign still running. So, we don't want to, you know, mess anything up by saying things too early. So, after the campaign ends, that's when we're going to tell people how much we're airdropping. >> Yeah. And I also want to add that uh for our ICO, we have the farmers, they're whitelisted. They're early. They're ear they're whitelisted for the ICO along with strategic partners. So, we want to make sure that the people that are whitelisted are aligned with us and that are basically riding with us uh for the long term. And so, we think our early

users should get a piece of that uh along with our strategic partners. >> Awesome. And and so catch us up like the last five months you guys have been live. I you know, I think you guys have been in the industry for a long time, but yeah, you know, you you you decided, look, we're going to start this stable coin project and cap has has had done incredibly well in early days. People thought like, you know, they knew stable coins were going to be a thing, but they thought like the days of issuing your own stable coin were kind of gone, you know, like you guys you guys came in and you saw, you know, incredible growth. H how give us give us sort of a summary of how things have gone over the last, you know, the the first five months of CAP.

>> Yeah. So, this is my fifth project, I believe, my fourth D5 project. So, I've been around for quite a while and I have to say the execution by Cath, our team, and the community uh has been excellent. Has been the best I've seen out of all the projects I've worked on. So, as Ben said, we started five months ago in August. We had a great start. Uh we had a especially strong in our Pendle program and I remember I wrote something about Pendle and you guys had me on back in September. And then you can't really judge a protocol unless it faces adversity, unless there's like some huge uh conflict it has to overcome. And that that happened. You had 1010 and you essentially had the whole stream finance of a control. And not only did we go down, but all stable coins went down. Uh

>> well, we went down in TVL. Nothing happened. Yeah. In TVL. And we went down in in TVL. But you know what? We recovered and we recovered stronger. And the deposits that came back were much stickier much and from larger pools of capital than before. And so you had Infinifi, Etherfi, Yuzu Money, uh all of them deposited in our protocol in the this CUSD uh stake USD portion and playing with Pendle that part of our protocol. So we came back uh you know stronger from you know all that stuff and now we're nearing 500 million TVL uh people you know and the thing with CAP is we're all about market incentives.

We're all about game theory in the same way we constructed our protocol assuming that everybody's in their self they're acting their best in their self-interest whether they're users of holders of our stable coin operators borrowing or delegators providing security uh everyone's acting in their self-interest and we applied the same thing to our stable drop we apply the same thing to our ICO and we want to make sure that you know everybody is aligned is aligned and everybody wins wins and we want everybody win yeah >> I love it and remind people I think you might have mentioned mentioned it earlier but remind people how what is the best way for them to get involved with stable drop.

>> Yes, super easy. Uh so we've had for the last five months this incentive program where people can uh perform certain activities. It's mostly using Pendle. Some people just mint CUSD which is extremely easy. You put your stable coin of choice and you're already earning caps. That's coming to an end. And so whenever the program ends in eight days, that's like when we stop giving out caps for that and then we'll be giving the airdrop in February. But we have season two. So uh which is Homestead program is this new um it's actually the first time we announced it. We we haven't announced it before. It's a little alpha for the royal people.

>> It's another campaign. And so if you enjoy the first campaign, if you think it resulted in a good outcome for you, maybe try the next uh campaign. And and thanks to the fact that we're not aird dropping tokens and this doesn't uh kickstart the same cycle of every other project. You know, you airdrop token goes to zero then nobody wants to go on the next campaign. Here's very different. We're dropping stable coins. So if uh we have the same ability to um you know reward people in the second season the same way we rewarded them in the first. >> Beautiful.

>> Yeah. And I also want to add uh for the first month of Homestead, we'll be giving double uh the points, double the caps. And so the earlier you're in Homestead when that starts in eight days, the better. >> Okay, so this thing is going to start in eight day. I love it. I love getting alpha like right here. >> Yeah, first time. This is first time. This is for the rollup. >> Everyone, we can all react to this in real time. So in eight days, we're going to launch Homestead. Everyone's going to be able to participate. Some of the ways are just simple activities that you can do onchain with cap. You can mint cusd. You can go on pendle. You can do some cap activities on there. And then you'll be earning points. And the earlier that you're in, the better. You'll be earning

double points for the for the first month. Okay. And then all of this is going to lead to the stable drop, right? Are you guys going to do two separate ones, one before, one after for the second camp? >> We'll do one now. Yeah, we'll do one now. uh for the first campaign. The second campaign will get an airdrop at the end of the Homestead program. >> Beautiful. Okay. And so everyone is uh is eligible. I'm sure everyone who participated in the first campaign is going to be can be quite happy. Um >> Yeah. And I I want to clarify that uh caps equals points. Points equals caps.

So we use them interchangeably here. >> Yep. Got it. And so you guys want to be earning caps and earning points and that will ultimately earn you stable coins. And I'm gonna I'm gonna put a prediction out there and say that you guys are gonna get enormously more activity in the second campaign because once people realize like they missed out on just money falling out of the like they would have wished that they participated in the first campaign and they're going to participate in the second one is is my prediction. >> Yeah. I mean Dave and I are farmers. We know what people want and at the end of the day you can give them your token.

You can give it out like candy, but people just want yield. They want to make a buck and so just give them that, right? Why do this whole workound of throwing out a token? >> Yeah, guys, we uh we've been putting together this thesis around NEO finance. Maybe maybe you've seen it. It's like we put out a market map. It's this idea that we're evolving on sort of both ends of the spectrum. The legacy finance world is evolving. A lot of the banks, especially if stablecoin, this is something I want to get your thoughts on too, maybe a little bit later. If Clarity Act goes through in the US, stable coins are going to be able to provide yield, uh, you know, to their end users. That's going to force, you know, banks to innovate, provide more yield. Otherwise, you're going to see a lot of money leave traditional

depository institutions and go into stable coins to get that yield. So, we think that banks are going to be forced to innovate into something like a NEO bank. And then on the other side of the spectrum, a lot of these wallets, a lot of these projects with distribution, we think are going to be forced to sort of go away from the the cryptonnative infrastructure slop that, you know, doesn't have product market fit or anything like that and innovate as well and kind of meet those neo banks where they are and and build out what we're calling NEO finance. Stable coins are really important piece of this. You've got the issuers, you got the stable coins themselves and all the apps, you know, that are releasing these stable coins. I'm curious to get your take on NEO Finance and this convergence of of where we think the yield space is going.

You obviously you mentioned USDA. You know, they're going into the credit world and providing credit to AI companies, passing a lot of that revenue back to state uh stable coin token holders in the form of yield. This is another thing that we think is going to be, you know, really complimentary to this new way of looking at things. Uh this new era of crypto which is just feels a lot more grown up. you know, it's not like the pool two token emissions anymore. It's more like real yield that's paid in the form of stable coins and yield coins and we're doing it onchain. We've got really easy to use frontends and user experiences and then it's powered by DeFi uh in the back end and I'm just I'm just curious to get your reaction to the neo finance

landscape that we see unfolding. >> Yeah, it's I mean it's happening, man. It's really happening. All these people are coming on chain. we realize that the traditional financial system doesn't work as well as DeFi. Uh but it's actually, you know, we're seeing real real uh adoption. Um this is the reality that we built for we built CAP because existing uh yield options on the dollar are way too risky, right? Aside from T-Boss, which most people don't just want to yield because it doesn't beat the inflation rate. Aside from that, the other yield options are very risky. And so we created this insured product for the dollar so that other neo banks can build on top of us. So that other applications can take advantage of this

yield. And so you have big neo banks like Ether for example. They've deposited way over $30 million from their um earned product into CAP. Why? Because they focus on the distribution. We focus on the safe insured yield in the back end. And so we want a bunch we want a 100 a thousand neo banks to come. We want a hundred, a thousand stable coins to come. We'll be able to integrate all of them into our yield product. >> Yeah. Yeah. Dave, go ahead. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I definitely see a future where there's a convergence between these legacy community banks and what we're doing uh at the frontier, what we're doing uh on the edge on chain. I can see all these community because

think about there are thousands of community banks in the United States and they're all looking for ways to earn yield. they could easily plug into our infrastructure and stuff that like the Genius Act, especially the Clarity Act, that's going to give them guidelines and that's ultimately going to give them the okay to go ahead and plug into us and that's way more capital that is about to enter their system. So, I'm really excited about that and I like I'm ready to like help these banks. I want to innovate with them. >> Dave, I I think you hit the nail on the head. This is this is the thesis, right? Is that these guys are going to innovate and like you're saying they can offer and if you think about Coinbase, I know I'm jumping around here a little bit.

Coinbase is offering this on the back end with Morpho, right? So, you've got sort of this fintechy neoank like front end. You've got, look, I'm sorry, but people don't want self-custody. We've tried it. We know that they don't want seed phrase seed phrases. They want a forgot password button. They want customer service, right? So we offer that to them on the front end like a Coinbase and then in the back end they're providing something like six, seven, eight% yield because we have all the capital efficiency, all the flows that you guys have. Great name by the way, cap. I mean every time I think capital flows, capital efficiency, you guys are, you know, right at the tip of my tongue. And so that in the background I think is exactly where the space is headed. And you're right, community

banks, you know, could be tapping into CAP and and these yield sources in the background. They have the consumer trust, you know, the the the end consumers, they trust these brands. They they know that, you know, they've been banking with these institutions for decades. >> Some of these banks have been around for over 100 years, especially in the Northeast. >> And so they have established names. They're well known in their communities. But imagine if they're like upgraded and and and they're ready for the next stage of finance. >> Yeah. that that's how a lot of these DeFi protocols end up receiving the trust because it's it's pro provided through these institutions that have a lot of trust. Ben, >> yeah, >> I wanted to uh touch up on that point about trust because so far what we've

seen is that TRFI doesn't really trust us just yet to integrate us into those yield products. Instead, it has been DeFi trusting. So, you'll see, you know, Athena integrating Bidd or, you know, Morpho adding RWA assets as collateral. But do you really see this trifi guys integrating their smart contracts into the back end of their system? Not yet. And so that's the challenge and that's what we're trying to do. Right? So we have the likes of Susuana, we have the likes of Flow Traders, not going to Apollo, not going to City Bank. Instead, they're coming to us for credit. Right?

You have people that um like Neo Banks like Ether, you know, not going to wisdom tree to get their yield, not going to Fidelity to get their yield. They're going to cap. And so I think if we are able the challenge is going to be can you build uh code that's good enough. You know right now we're in this space where we have a lot of startups building uh managed products that rely on trusting teams. But I feel like if you can build products that are good enough uh and that lower the trust assumptions enough you will have this adoption. But that's the challenge that we're focused on particularly.

>> I like to call it the UNO reverse card. So instead of us going you know you know projects and protocols going offchain basically becoming rappers it's no the institutions stratifying they're coming onchain and they're using us and they're actually participating in onchain pools of capital for you know their bottom line and so and they're doing that with cap they're actually borrowing they're actively using cap and uh I think that speaks volumes >> what are the knock-on effects here like walk us through what are some of the instit institutional use cases that you guys are currently seeing and then you know like what happens next.

>> Yeah, there's two there's two things. Uh one of them we closed a deal with wisdom tree. Uh so now their users they have a lot of users that pension funds, family offenses etc that earn TBO yield with their money market funds but a lot of them are not happy with that because they want to earn a little bit more. Uh and so what we've done with them is that we convinced them to hook up their uh product to cap. So if you're an existing user of uh wisdom trees money market funds and you're earning tail yield now you can choose to redirect those funds into cap through a permission flow. Uh and so that's that's something that we're very interested in and I I see a lot of products trying to you know connect their yield products to try uh but it's difficult to do. Uh and then

the other one is obviously what Dave mentioned uh getting these regulated financial institutions to actually use these products and we've seen it a little bit with um uh what's that French bank uh associate general right that they're using Morpho and they working with um me Capital to do their stable coin. So we see some of these uh but it's still very very early. >> We're still early in something boys. So, [laughter] >> and people have been trying to understand how they can get exposure to stable coins because I think everyone sees this like we have Secretary Bessant saying there's going to be trillions of dollars of stable coins and and they're wondering like how can I get exposure to this? How can I bet on this piece this segment of the market, you know, doing

particularly well? I mean, is it just is it just use cap like just farm stables using cap? >> What can I say? What can I say? >> Points. >> Well, here's the thing. Um, there's two ways to get a project's token, right? It's you buy it off the market after the TGE or you uh farm for the airdrop. We've been in crypto long enough. What's better? To get to get money or or to buy it? And so, I think um you know my answer, but I have to be careful with how I explain it. [laughter] >> It's about skin in the game. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, you guys don't have a token yet, right?

>> No, we're going to have a token sometime this uh this year. I can't say when. And uh yeah it will be called CAP which is very exciting and we have a lot of uh interesting ways in which we're going to integrate it into CAP but I don't want to get in trouble with marketing uh by you know getting ahead of things. You guys already released quite a bit of alpha right here, right? You know, on this show, we're definitely going to clip uh uh Homestead and make sure that people people know about Homestead because I I really do believe that we're going to see a lot more uh people and funds pour in to the season 2 campaign because they're they they don't know what they're missing. Um >> yeah, >> guys, I mean, close us out here. What what else are we seeing on the stable

coin front? Um actually, I I do have something that I want to get your take on. You know, we again we released this Neo Finance market map. One of one of the main components of this is stable coins. And so we had uh Chuck from uh um uh he he runs a podcast as well. And so he was talking about Chuck was talking about how in stable coins we got this barbell. On one hand we've got stable coin apps and then on the other hand we've got these treasury reserve managers and in the middle you've got issuers. And you know, we were kind of workshopping like where value occurs in the stable coin stack. And so I want to get your take on this. Essentially, you know, we in my opinion, the the issuer game is sort of a game that's been won.

Like, you know, you've got the major issuers. I don't see a long tale of issuers coming in and disrupting, you know, the big the big few that are up there. On the other hand, you've got, you know, the stable coin apps like CLA's going and they're releasing their own stable coin. You know, you've got uh even teams that are that have major distribution. I could see an Uber stable coin. I could see an Airbnb stable coin, right? These are companies with distribution, but they would probably not issue. They'd probably use one of these, you know, stable coin as a service providers and and this treasury management in the background. Curious to get your take on this stable coin stack.

Do you guys also see it as a barbell approach? You know, you've got a lot of these stable coin apps on one side. There's a there can be a lot of apps really anyone with distribution can can do quite well on that front and then on the other side you've got sort of this treasury management side as close to bare metal as possible. That's where you know some more of the the value will acrue. Is this how you guys see value acrruel in stable coins or do you think there's a different you know mental framework through which you know we we should come to understand specifically value acrruel in stable coins. I I personally what I don't want to be doing is stable coins as a service like T stable coins as a service or making my own TB stable coin. Why? Because everybody and their grandmother is going

to come out with a Tibbo stable coin. You said it Uber, Airbnb, Clarina, everyone's coming out with their own stable coin and it's completely undifferiated, right? Why would you use those stable coins? Well, because you're already a user of those platforms. And so if you have just a stable coin with no home, why would anybody use it? I'm not sure. CAP at the beginning we knew this was going to happen and that's why we just aggregate all these it doesn't matter whether your stable coins from Singapore or South Africa or Florida we can integrate it to give it yield um to answer your question I think we will see a lot of these institutions make their own stable coins maybe with help from um folks like Paxos or others that can automate the legal part for them and

then you'll have a lot of applications cap we want to infrastructure, right? We don't want to build on top of these stable coins uh in a userfacing way. Like we don't want to have like a card or some sort of savings app. That's not really for us. Instead, we want to be this infrastructure that connects all these different stable coins that gives them value beyond the mode of their issuers, beyond just, you know, this is a cool stable coin because Clara made it. It's it's actually even better because now I can put it in cap and earn better yield than Clarina would give me otherwise.

Dave, I don't know if I missed. >> Yeah. No, you hit the nail on the head. I My framework for viewing stable coins is you have distribution and you have infrastructure. And most stable coins, they focus on distribution. And your distribution is only as strong as your network effect. And Benjamin and I know that we're not going to win in that g beat that game at all. And so when it comes to infrastructure though, there's still innovation to be done. Uh there has been some progress over the years but I think cap is really just order of magnitude more uh evolution in this >> super unbiased of course.

>> Yeah super uni super unbiased at all but we really created this credit engine that can scale to the tens of billions honestly and I'm you know and this is just the early stages. This is just the beginning uh and people are getting on board so come join us. Dave, what do you what you know, like you said, you guys have been part of several projects in the past that didn't really stick. What What do you think about what is it about CAP that really has caused it to be like this? This feels like the one. >> Yeah. Uh I think first like first and foremost, it's the team. Uh you know, a project is nothing without the team. You know, I I previously have been part of Frack, Denero, Redacted, Gelato, a bunch of different things. Uh Benjamin, founder of Chew. We have all the beefy

devs. uh and they they've held billions in their smart contracts before. So, we've all been around and you know that experience goes a long way and how many people can say they have collectively 25 plus years experience in DeFi. Second, it's just uh the idea just it works. It it it just hits and we're seeing it work in real time and it's just a matter of time until it scales. So, it's the team, it's the product and of course it's the community. People are excited about it. Not only do we make people aware, but people are using it. People are talking about it. Um, and you're just seeing it catch fire. And I think what I love about CAP is it's like a it's a slow burn. It's not like it's not like, oh, like it's like in your face like right away. It's like no, like people are

catching on. People are learning about it. People are understanding it. But now I think with stuff that we're doing like the stable chalk, it's going to bring way more attention to us and what we're doing. And like, you know, like Ben said at the beginning, we're almost at 500 million. You know, soon a billion. Yeah. I would add one more thing is um who's using this >> right we have institutions today >> that are using us maybe to get credit >> uh instead of going to city bank they're going to us like these are large regulated institutions I think the collective aum of our operators is over $2 trillion so this hasn't happened before we do not see susana borrowing from a right we do not see flow traders using morpho or using other defi protocols that I think are amazing I use

myself. Um, and so that's really what makes me think this is different, right? Like for example, Wisdomree or Franklin Templeton, they've never whitelisted a complex DeFi protocol for usage ever before. They've whitelisted stable coins to be their backing, but they've never whitelisted their money market funds to be using complex DeFi operations before. And so all these little things uh these institutions that are are slow and they're risk averse if they really want to participate in CAP that tells you that something different is going on here.

Yeah, well said. Well said. And and these are success stories that end up scaling to even greater financial institutions. And I think, you know, you guys serve as a model because it would be great for some of these institutions to go into Morpho, go into a right, and get, you know, we know that these are reputable, you know, DeFi projects and onchain companies. Um, and it it's incredible that you guys are the for like you guys are the first sort of portal through which they're viewing DeFi onchain. So, you know, with great power comes great responsibility, right?

>> Don't [ __ ] it up for the rest of us, guys. I know I know you're not going to. You guys are doing an incredible job. It's it's really really great to see. >> Well, I have to say we have a a CTO and a group of devs that built Beefy Finance, arguably the most used Yield protocol in DeFi that has never been hacked, right? It's been in every chain known to man and they're extremely paranoid and they're extremely conservative. So, um even if you don't trust Dave and I, uh the devs are not going to let anything happen. I'm pretty confident in them. >> Yeah. Yeah. The the engineering, you know, the code speaks for itself. Um everyone can go, you know, they they can check it out, do their own research, but um I think you guys are doing an incredible job and uh congrats on even

thinking up the stable drop concept. I know people are going to love it. Uh, and it's gonna it's going to garner a lot of attention. Um, it it really feels like you guys are on the uh, you know, the the beginning of something really really cool here. Uh, and you've come a long way. Like you said, 500 million already in the vault. So, like it's not like, you know, this is just a flash in the pan. It's a slow burn and, uh, I think you guys are very much on the right track. So, thank you for coming on and and sharing it with us and, uh, would love to have you guys on again soon. Anytime. >> Thank you so much, Robbie.

>> Yeah, absolutely. See you guys soon. Cheers guys. All right, that's it. That's our show, guys. Thank you so much. Um, yeah, we've got Ben and uh Dave are still behind the scenes. Uh, but yeah, they're always great. They're friends of the show. We've uh, you know, seen them around at conferences and and they've been in the space a long time like you heard Ben say at Beefy. Uh Dave was at FRA and this you know this has been a great segment presented our by our friends over at FRA who have tremendous things coming on line as well. You heard Sam a couple weeks ago talk about some of the partnerships. Uh and then I believe just last week there was an announcement that

50 million is going to be coming into the protocol. Uh they were snubbed from our our payments infrastructure uh segment of the market map u which uh was our mistake but uh FRA is doing great. CAP is doing great. This entire category is something that we believe in and uh we really believe that you know as neo financial institutions are coming more on chain the the their first impression is through stable coins. So it's no surprise that these uh these guys at fraction cap are doing great. Uh and then I I do believe that it ends up with this wealth effect ends up spilling over into some of the more expressive DeFi uh uh applications that are out there on

chain. So guys, check out um you know, check out Homestead. Sounds like a great campaign. You guys aren't going to want to miss it. All right, that's it. Great show, guys. We will see you again tomorrow. We've got near intense day tomorrow. Don't miss it. And uh yeah, it's a great show. Signing off. Cheers. [music]