David and Anthony Chat [LIVE]

Transcript

the news the start of the stream doesn't oh it's trying live stream is just always finicky I've noticed oh no we've been live we've been live yeah what's up Anthony yeah yeah all the all the secret Shenanigans back alley dealing that we

do right before the stream starts yeah yeah for hours huh God the hilarious thing about it is that I slept through literally all of it I went to bed eighth was 1700. I got up eighth of 1700 and it was not until until I checked the chart that I realized that something actually happened wait wasn't it 1850 when it when it started dumping we were way higher I mean I went well I went to bed at like 3am my time um I don't know what that time is for you so it was It was kind of late for me but um and then I woke up like 11 A.M or something and yeah it was at the same price and I I thought we were just crabbing and then yeah we almost never catch dips when we

record the prices section during the weekly roll up and it was dumping as we were doing the prices so I was like oh wow we're actually getting captured this time and then the ending price that we moved before we moved on for the market section to the rest of the of the roll up was like 1740 and then I end the roll up and I look I was like oh my God we got so low oh man yeah I mean I can imagine what it was like for everyone that was kind of awake and witnessing it because I know what it's like I mean I've been awake for those kind of volatile periods but yeah the amazing thing of sleeping through it was that I felt nothing right I got up and I'm just like oh okay we dipped we did this thing you know

apparently a billion dollars was like uh liquidated or something of Leverage I was like why are there so many leathered Apes still in this market like what who has the money to do this right now well it's like my idea on that is like if the longer you wait the more people take Leverage so like so like as as liquidations don't happen like like people just like okay I'll take leverage now especially if you're going sideways for so long which is what happened and like the fact that there's no real new money coming in I mean I think we can obviously see that given that pretty much everything retraces its entire pump after the Ripple SEC kind of win uh you know we had that big ass pump like

everything went nuts especially xrp and now if you look at everything it's back to basically what it was before that happened and I think that just signifies that really all the money that was pumping up the market was just the same money that was already here there was no follow-through from the new money because I you know I've been saying this for ages on my own show that during these crab markets the reason why it crabs is because there's no new money and this recent thumb seemed to have been as you were saying all that leverage just building up from people just essentially being bored I guess and being like oh we're going sideways I can't get I can't get you know liquidated in this environment well yes you can the numbers stops going down for six months take on The Leverage boys yeah yeah exactly

exactly so but it's it's always funny to see people's reactions after big moves like this you know I saw some some bears you know obviously gloating and things like that and they were saying oh you know I'm gonna wait till BTC hits like 15K that I'm gonna buy and it kind of gives me flashbacks to the bull market where people said no I'm not selling my BTC it's going to 100K right it's the same picture it's the exact same picture it's just reversed right so it's always funny seeing the reactions and then I think that we're so deep into this bear Market that really uh the only reactions that I see are from the trader types the investors are like oh well whatever I'm just gonna keep stacking there's no Panic really like I didn't see any Panic from the long-term investors that I

talked to regularly it's more of okay we dumped you know we got liquidated but hey we're you know we can stack some more we've got more time to stack but I think it's also setting the expectation of what the Market's going to do I think when everyone just accepts that it's just going to do nothing good and it's just going to go sideways mostly and maybe we have these high volatility events which I actually tweeted about a few weeks ago I said they're still going to be high volatility events and you're gonna get washed out if you're on Leverage so I think that's just the norm right for crypto yeah absolutely and like even if I've been feeling oh like a foundation of bullishness Brew kind of in the same way that you know towards the end of the last bear market like you had a lot of real reasons to

get real excited like we had uniswap we had maker we had compound we had Ave uh we had a lot of these ingredients curve had just come out and like and for people that weren't in crypto during that time think about like what we didn't and we didn't have any of those things and so going from nothing to uniswap maker Dao curve Ave uh was like a paradigm shift and so like here we are all we were all being on chain even though we didn't even use those words and we had this underlying bullishness Foundation build up but no one outside of crypto was paying attention to that and so that's why you like yes you are excited you have the alpha but it's not going to happen right now like you you have you there's like at least a Year's of time before like you have like the

bullish sentiment Foundation grow before something starts to like poke up and Sprout into the mainstream culture mm-hmm yeah and we were just actually saying briefly off air I was telling you how I remember at the turn of like the New Year in 2019 obviously eth had come off its you know all-time high 94 down went to like 80 bucks and it was a pretty bad time for the prices of everything really uh and then you know the the year turned and everyone was just kind of licking their wounds stuff like that and then I was thinking to myself you know all this stuff to be bullish about in the ethereum ecosystem we had the early kind of D5 stuff going on as you mentioned maker you need to swap things like that uh and we had you know there were still discussions around proof of stake what was going to happen

with that uh the ethereum road map generally and because you and I were so close to the ethereum you know road map and paid so much attention to us we were like holy crap you know we could see the next five years of ethereum but no one else can and we were that's the reason why we were bullish at the time of buying eth at those levels but even still it took eth another two years after that uh even a little bit more than two years to go back to its old all-time high because it didn't actually reach 14 20 whatever it was until January 2021 uh which was yeah more than two years from from that point so if you apply the same logic to the current markets kind of cycle that we're in right now and think to yourself wow look at all these bullish news that's

happening l2s are popping off right we have more articles that we know what to do with these are PayPal you know ETFs all this kind of bullish news uh but the thing is is that like the market isn't pricing that in because as I said there's no new money coming in uh the fundamentals take a a while to play out yes they're bullish now but it's because we're aware of them we know it's bullish but other people aren't aware of it other people aren't paying attention to it and it just takes time for for that to kind of filter through and as you said Sprout up essentially um it's let's like at the seed seedling stage and then it needs to sprout up and then everyone notices the big tree right so I think that that's the exact same thing that's happening now and that's why I keep

iterating to people whenever I talk to people about this is that I just I I have the biggest Vibe of 2019 right now I just it's deep within me I'm just like I feel like I'm back in 2019 and I feel like I see it so clearly and I'm seeing the woman in the red dress if I'm reading the Matrix code that's literally how I feel some days because it just feels so Eerie I mean obviously I could I can be wrong right obviously it's you know it's not gonna a history is not gonna repeat exactly but I don't know I just I don't feel fundamentally bearish like I I feel like we washed out everything last year and now we're just in a holding pattern waiting for the kind of seeds to grow certainly yeah and the 20 we had a year of bullishness like

everyone was bullish during defy summer and that was like uh March or April of 2020 until December when ether started to actually act so we had we had people making life-changing amounts of money from March until December of 2020 and that continued on but also like making life-changing amounts of money while ether was below 450 and it ether stayed in that same range it was like 300 to 400 which was just like on the higher side of the bear Market but it was a number that we saw in the bear Market throughout for the past three years so ether stayed at this like low level for the whole year while people were printing life-changing amounts of money

during D5 summer and everyone who was in the war the market was like paying attention was playing the game was knew it was on but like it was like The Insider bull market like if you stuck out through the bear market like you got to have all of this like Alpha for yourself because like we're printing governance tokens defy your farm Etc et cetera et cetera and it didn't show up in the blue chips and Bitcoin was starting to make moves but either wasn't um but like still mainstream was making moves off of the uh I think sailor stuff like Elon Musk buying BTC like that kind of stuff it was getting the attention um because of that because I remember eighth BTC was going down and it was because of that like it was getting more mainstream attention from from those

kind of headlines oh sailor bought his first Bitcoin in 2021 uh well I I was it 2021 I I remember 2020 maybe maybe I'm just remembering sailor but I know that there was Tesla I'm pretty sure Tesla first bought in 2020 didn't they I don't like okay so the the line I remember going on throughout crypto Twitter was that both Bitcoin and then like a few weeks later ether made all-time highs and no one in mainstream media was talking about it like we broke through all-time highs crypto Twitter was jubilant and no one outside of the world like saw that that was coming or was even talking about it did not register on their Radars and in my mind in all of our minds we were like

yo like we just broke through all-time highs and they're still like not new money coming in or not massive amounts of new money new money was coming in but like not the Sailor money that so I just Googled it because I was curious so Tesla bought in Feb 2021 but sailor actually bought in 2020. um I think as early as like September or August or something so that's what I was remembering yeah he was like Making Waves of doing these huge BTC purchases and then everyone was meaning that oh wow all these companies are going to start buying PTC and of course we saw some follow-through with Tesla but it didn't really materialize we saw some companies here and there I wrote this tweet that more companies will own youth on their balance sheet uh than Bitcoin because they were going to need to pay

pay gas yeah and that triggered every single Bitcoin Maximus under the sun yeah yeah I mean it usually does right uh but yeah no I I remember that distinctly because I remember hbtc going down a lot even though eth like even though D5 summer was happening and then everyone was saying oh well you know you only need BTC and D5 tokens the barbell strategy that that didn't end up materializing um and everyone just like got wrecked if they held defy tokens against like Ethan BTC right because Ethan went on its ridiculous run people forget that eath was still like four five hundred dollars when defy summer ended and then eighth went to 4 400 uh in like six months so yeah we were doing rotating to Eid we

were doing one of our Bowl case for youth episodes that December because it's like great holiday content and yeah ether was marching past 700 the second week of December and then it would hit 1 100 in January but it was December that month that was like uh the good month for ether where like all of the whole like D5 token Bitcoin barbell just idea just went out the window yeah and and suddenly everyone started becoming an eighth Maxi instead of a BTC Maxi because there was that trend of everyone becoming a BTC Maxi in the bear market like last bear Market which was a very annoying Trend but I guess it made sense because ethereum had come off icos and everyone had like written off ethereum for dead because they weren't

paying attention as we were saying it only had one bottle Bitcoin I already had like three bubbles and big so like yeah no there was no precedent for ether coming back yeah exactly exactly but then obviously this time around it's a lot different right no one's doubting ethereum's use cases we know D5 this is l2s you know we know we have um you know some stuff like decentralized social media as well and gaming and nfts obviously right so yeah it's just a very different kind of vibe from from that sense but as I said I'm getting the exact same kind of Vibes of there's so much stuff going on Price is not reacting to it but this doesn't last forever it is definitely a temporary phenomenon yeah certainly one thing that um I've been really enjoying uh out of the bankless ventures like act what do

you call them activities that we do activities where we like talk to a lot of deal like teams on the frontier and like the nice thing about it is that you get a lot of signal and there's been a handful of teams that we've talked to who like their number one volume or numbers of clients are gaming companies and like the reason why they have traction is because of gaming companies and they just spit out like large numbers versus everyone else like yeah like there's gaming come companies up here and then our next biggest category of client is like down here like the number of instances where people say gaming is like going to I mean everyone's been saying this for like a year now and I've always been like even longer than the year but I've always been like all right is that just like a

narrative because that's a great narrative like is this real But like after like talking to all these like teams like that are servicing gaming clients like gaming apparently is just like the thing yeah yeah I I think people in crypto like crypto natives got burnt out on it because a lot of it was ponzi-esque and obviously Axion axis Infinity was like the quintessential example of this of something that went nuts but really when you drilled down into it it was a lot of kind of people just farming the the money right and everyone was going on about how people in the Philippines were able to play this game and earn a living and like that's all well and good but the problem was is that they were only able to do that because it was bull market money right and that's not sustainable for the in the norm

um but now yeah I'm seeing it too like I don't pay that much attention to it uh just because I don't have the time to but I in the daily Discord Channel we have a gaming channel and I see people talking about it and things like that and yeah it is it is real right there are a lot of things happening in in behind the scenes but again people aren't paying attention because they got burnt out from like the first iterations of what happened and they just you know they don't want to pay attention to it because they think it gets maybe a scam or like a Ponzi or whatever it is and some don't get me wrong some of it is right but that's like anything in crypto yeah so the French Tech thing is interesting to

me because there's like two sides of the coin here where you think it's really interesting because it's like something new to play around with and the well not necessarily new because it has been done before but it's like I guess new to some people but there's the other side of it where it's this trend of the financialization of everything in the world not just within crypto where everything is suddenly becoming an investment and I've noticed that with like a lot of my hobbies right everything is just suddenly an investment right if you if you have something that's slightly different than something else you could get more for it and it's just hilarious the kind of value that people will give to certain items based on memes based essentially it's not based on any kind of fundamentals it's memes and I guess memes are fundamental like if you wanna

if you want to frame it like that but the the The Logical conclusion of that is speculating on people right speculating on kind of like influences and and kind of buying their shares with what you do with friend Tech and getting access to I mean essentially it becomes like a paid group where you get to access to their chat but then you can sell your access to someone else and it becomes this financialization of someone's essentially their their time um which obviously isn't a totally New Concept uh but something that I think that yeah as you said it looks ponzi-esque and it can also be gamed uh very easily um but I don't know I feel like it's an interesting idea for people who want to be involved in that world where

essentially you people say oh what if you could invest in an influencer before they blew up right what if you could invest in them when they only had a thousand followers then they got to 100 000 followers and suddenly your Shares are worth a lot it's like investing in a company or investing in a sports player or something right as a as a company right so I get that side of things but I think that the execution needs to be handled very finely or as as we said it turns into like a Ponzi where everyone's just kind of gaming everything and it's just money in and money out and everyone just like gets wrecked there's this one uh guy who from my Twitter one of my Twitter followers who bought one of my shares and his name's Leo and I like looked at his Twitter account he's got

like a hundred or maybe a thousand followers like not not the biggest account on Twitter but like he said hey can you buy one of my shares I'm like sure because when you're there they don't have any supply of chairs like the shares are super cheap and then I'd see him just like absolutely grinding in his chat and he goes from like just like the long tail of friends account follow like accounts and he's like number four bro and so he he has like 140 uh like shareholders out of I don't know what his market cap is but it's insane yeah one share is 0.58 a half a half an e dude he's it's insane he just goes like Levi yeah 57 holders he's holding 115 people but he's just

been absolutely grinding in the friends Tech game and he's been posting out like some of his stats he's earned he's like he posted posted his stats in his uh chat share price 0.39 to 0.58 in the last day up 50 trading fees earned 0.57 each in a day I don't know who this guy is but he's just like this friends Tech grinder and he's just been making it happen for himself that's awesome though like I I respect that I respect people who put in the effort to do that but I I also have the cynic in me that thinks you know that's the outlier yeah because like friends Tech is fundamentally unsustainable because it's just small accounts buying big accounts right like that that's just how this works

it's also it also goes back to like the experiments that were done with uh monetizing social media obviously Twitter has started doing it recently but one of the first large-scale examples was something called steemit uh and this was around uh a long time ago it ended up being drama around that it got taken over by Justin sarner and they forked it off but the original idea paying people yeah yeah yeah the original idea was paying people to post content and you can imagine what happened right it was overrun by Bots and and and trading of of kind of like upvotes stuff like that and the way that the money was paid it wasn't paid by the users it was paid by the protocol so essentially the protocol would issue it would have an issuance curve right and

inflation essentially and then pay that out to people and of course when there's that's basically a zero cost right because the users aren't paying for it the cost is born by all the the token holders so it's not a cost to the to the user directly it's if they're holding the steam tokens of course as a cost to them but what would happen is it would be gamed and I I saw it it was a lot transparent because it was on chain but it was completely games that everyone was trading votes with each other they were Bots dominating everything and people were making a lot of money uh by doing this because it was a you know it was a bull market and it was just crazy stuff going on and I remember seeing people just like copy pasting other people's content as well and they were

just better at marketing it and they were getting paid for it so I I don't know like that financialization of stuff like that I don't know if it actually leads to good outcomes I think it just leads to gamification of things um in in the worst ways possible and with Twitter I think it's it's rather limited because Twitter didn't start off like that it kind of bolted it on later and a lot of people don't really care about getting paid for their content they were putting content out in the anyway right before they were getting paid but also on a long enough time Horizon you can imagine that people just spew whatever they want on Twitter to get the most attention which they already do right but they do it to such an extreme now because they're earning money from it if you're earning lots of

money from it you're going to go to the extremes to earn even more so it it's it's a tricky business man like it's something that I've thought a lot about and I've never come up with a good conclusion to actually make it work yeah the gamification it puts a lot of pressure on the parameters for how you distribute money like if if the incentives are on Twitter have changed because Twitter is starting to pay people out money for posting tweets then then like there's going to be some sort of you know economic imbalance right like think think of like what all the numbers that goes into constructing a gas fee like sometimes we Tinker with those things because one is like outsized for the other and Twitter's gonna have to do that to manage the incentives around paying content but like that's a bold case if they can

effectively manage their own economy with their like you know money printer that is like their you know money that they send out for for Twitter content creators that that's like the Bold case for all of this stuff like the whole idea of everything turning into a financial game like the the the one of the big pushbacks against the crypto industry in this last bull market was like the crypto Bros are going to come financialize everything and then and we don't want that because we don't want your finances in our culture right we don't want nfts because we don't want money in our art and I I think that's you know a good worry and it's like a natural immune response but it also underserves the equal and opposite uh idea which is that culture is finally infiltrating into the world of Finance like both pulled true

you can't have one without the other and so a combination of just like some Arbiter of whatever this economic system is like the steam Twitter uh whatever whatever is going to be the monetary policy issuer for how these things actually economically work out and then also allow for that optimize for like good content right because if it's just Bots coming in to tweet out tweets to make content then that sucks that that fine that's financialization becoming ruined but the bull case is that actually you are instilling culture and allowing culture to manifest better because you figured out the economics and all of a sudden Twitter becomes a better place because it's literally full of culture mm-hmm yeah I guess that's the optimistic approach I don't know I've

become more kind of like more of a cynic uh uh the more I use kind of like Twitter uh just because of the fact that the things that seem to get the most attention are literally like fake news right things that are just not true because people want to believe things right they want their biases to be confirmed and especially when it comes to politics you can put out literal blatant misinformation and people eat it up now the thing is is that there's Community notes which vitalik wrote about recently people want to actually get a deep dive on how Community notes works it was an excellent blog post but Community notes is is amazing right but if you get community notes and it says this is literally fake right this is not a real kind of uh uh factual information uh are you gonna get demonetized for

that right like does your Tweet not count towards your monetary rewards for the month or something that should be what happens but if it doesn't happen like that there is literally no consequence yeah you get community nourished but by the time you get community notes your tweets are already viral right and people are already seeing it and you get all those Impressions and it counts towards your total for the month so I feel like if you really want to make it work you have to take that into account you have to essentially punish the Bad actors or else you just get overrun by them because then everyone will be like well if I can earn money for literally just spreading the most fake news possible and the most viral news possible then they're probably going to use an AI to come up with something that has the

highest chance of getting the most Impressions and eventually what you have is that the culture actually gets overrun by that and just to your point about the culture um just generally and that will tie into something else I wanted to talk about but I don't know if you wanted to say anything to that there yeah take us there yeah yes so the the other thing I wanted to talk about today actually that that I've been talking to you about for a um I don't know a few weeks now actually on and off I've been kind of rattling the the new mental model that I've kind of come up with for for blockchains generally for crypto ecosystems blockchains generally and I was thinking a lot about this specifically over the last few weeks because I've been thinking about the social layout because a lot of people

have been talking about it on Twitter and a lot of people are misunderstanding what a social layer is when in the crypto context a lot of people they're a blind spot they they do they do and I understand why because it's it's definitely a thing that isn't obvious and it takes a while of being in crypto to actually understand why it's important but I was thinking to myself okay so there's the social air side of things but are there other parts of crypto that people uh get attracted to and that people kind of uh Vibe with at different parts in their crypto journey and I think that I've come up with three categories that it all falls into so you have the social category as I just mentioned you have the economic category and then you have the technical category and those are the three things that I think that

blockchain ecosystems optimize for in different ways now I want I count with some examples to illustrate this here so when you think about ethereum as an ecosystem how did ethereum start well it started with a really strong social layer because it was started based on ideology right it was started based on hey how can we change the world right how can we build these decentralized applications to take power away from centralized intermediaries right that was the whole kind of vibe of ethereum it was it was it was uh very kind of like tight near the start obviously it was very kind of like hacker oriented and and that kind of was ethereum's beginning that's what it began it's social the technical stuff was like more of an afterthought because obviously the tech of ethereum it was a road map to upgrade it and make it better but it was

it was not the greatest Tech right it was very simple and it has remained that way for a long time now and the economics of it were completely out there's no economical thought put into it at all like it was it was really not thought about but then you look at Bitcoin how did Bitcoin start well it had a lot of that social stuff as well right but it also had the economic side of things definitely did not have the technology zero technical but it had the social and it had the economics but then slowly over time what happened with Bitcoin is that the economics took precedent over everything else right it was all about protect protecting bitcoin's monetary policy at the cost of everything else even at the cost of the social layer and that's why we see with Bitcoin a lot of the social air turned into just toxic

kind of infighting stuff like that right and and out fighting too right so the Bitcoin exactly and they've kind of optimized completely for that so there's very little technical uh the social layer is not where where I think it should be it's definitely not a very healthy social layer and the monetary thing is is their main main thing then you look at these other layer ones that have come over the years right what are they optimized for well they optimize for technical they always set we've got the best tech right we've got better Tech than ethereum we've got cheaper gas fees we've got this we've got that they don't focus on monetary policy yeah exactly they don't focus on monetary policy at all they don't focus on the social layer at all so all they focus on is the technical stuff which then feeds into

what actually forms on the social side of things because the social air becomes or where I've got the best tech you know and then they they're kind of like started insulting ethereum and say ethereum is crap because it's got crappy Tech we've got better Tech and they just they over optimize for that so that's what I mean by that there's there's three high level categories that sit there that up that kind of um dictate what what ecosystems become now I I then related it back to ethereum obviously because we're you know we're both in ethereum uh and and I spent a lot of time in it uh just covering it and I thought to myself okay like what why do I spend so much time in ethereum based on this framework like what makes ethereum special to me well what makes it special to me is ethereum is the

closest ecosystem to hitting all three of those categories in an equal fashion right it has a fantastic monetary policy now in my in my opinion obviously this is subjective right of Bitcoin is hate ethereum's monetary policy but you know we love it right so to me it has a really great monetary policy it has a really great technical roadmap right where we pushed the technical Innovation really to layer two right which I believe is a much better way of of scaling a blockchain not just scaling for you know cheaper gas fees and stuff like that but also scaling the technology and and integrating better Tech within the ethereum stack and then ethereum has an absolutely awesome social layer where ethereum as an ecosystem has been able to actually attract a really healthy group of people who are in it for the tech who care

about the values of decentralization the value values of freedom and and the values of longevity too which is very important like Building Systems that can last a very long time so that is really the core of why I am so kind of like in ethereum and I think that would be the same for you uh in that framework um and that's I think after explaining all that that is definitely not something that I would expect someone that is newer to the ecosystem to understand because it is a learned thing it is years of experience uh going through the cycles seeing what works seeing what doesn't and then coming to your own conclusion about what you actually want to see um and if we if we look at other ecosystems that that um their current state uh you know people talk a lot

about Solana for example and I'm going to start naming names here because I need to I want to use concrete concrete examples um I think Solana uh over optimized on the technical side of things right they were all about the tech and they still are about the tech right but that meant that social air got corrupted uh because of uh not not these days obviously it's been flushed out but when Solana started they're so I was heavily dominated by profit maximalists which was influenced by SPF and FTX and a lot of the crowd that they were able to attract via that right because those people used Solana's kind of like headlines or we've got better Tech we've got more scalability blah blah as a way to make money essentially right so that was kind of corrupted there but but you know it can evolve over time it can change over time

I still think uh like Solana these other layer ones out there like cardano polkadot all these other I still think they optimize way too heavily on the technical side of things and they forget about the social layout because the social layer then starts reflecting only the technical side and they forget about the other important parts of the social layer which as I mentioned are things like okay how do we actually do decentralization outside of the technical properties right how do we ensure that we can recover from an attack or how can we recover from things like censorship and all those sorts of things like that becomes an afterthought because they're all they're thinking about is the technical stuff as an ecosystem and uh and yeah so that's like my whole framework and my whole Spiel that I I've come up with uh and tried to

kind of formulate in my head and as I said it's very subjective it's definitely not something that everyone's going to Vibe with but that's pretty much the reason why I spend so much time in ethereum is because in my mind it's the closest thing to hitting all three in in a nice equal healthy healthy way 100 yeah that resonates with like a lot of my sentiment as to why ethereum is the thing that it is okay I think one of the reasons why I have the convictions on ethereum that I do is because I kind of consider ethereum like this um Singularity between so many different components of what makes a blockchain a blockchain and like are you labeled at like the three big overarching categories and like one of the reasons I think why bankless is what it is is because we talk to so many different

types of people like what does a historian think about crypto what does a cryptographer think about crypto what does a macro Economist think about crypto what does uh computer scientists think about crypto like how many like like I can what does a psychologist think about crypto right like the point is that like everyone has a lens for viewing crypto and that is the power of crypto crypto has something for everyone and you can understand crypto through your own lens and crypto can bring something to you based on where you came from and your Walk of Life because it's got something for you no matter where you came from like maybe it's a little bit easier if you understand computer science and cryptography and economics but like if you even understand

sociology you start to see some of the tribalism and how and you talk about that's the social layer right and so the best ecosystem I've always thought is going to be a harmonization between so many different aspects of what makes a crypto system a crypto system and it doesn't just stop at Tech right it doesn't stop at economics it doesn't does stop it technicals it's like all of these different Mass variables and that's why crypto itself is such a nerd snipe is because it's like in order to understand crypto you need to understand a very wide swath of things about the world and you also need to pattern matches to how these things fit together and that is what I would call going down the crypto rabbit hole and I totally agree with you where like the bitcoiner world is over indexed on

the economics and then the Solana and you know layer one world has over index on the tech the thing is like it's just saying hey we have the better Tech we have the better Tech if you actually miss the economics and the social layer your Tech isn't complete because the reason why ethereum is doubling down on the technology energy of Roll-Ups is that it scales the social layer and the economics layer it harmonizes those things and so you can say like our Tech is better our Tech is is you know for some reason has some competitive Advantage but if you have a social layer blind spot you're missing in the ways that this technology actually doesn't scale at the social layer because you can only see the tech and so like this

is why I think like people will can come into crypto and like understand 68 of what makes crypto crypto and then you end up as someone who like is a bitcoiner or a salonian person because they have a blind spot to the rest of the of the spectrum and this is why I like I put out a tweet that um I said ethereum harmonizes diversity ethereum has this um emphasis on pluralism how do we have more tribes with more values exist in the same spot and I don't see any other layer one espouse that as a principle as a value but like pluralism is how you grow a network to the whole world that is what that is and that is why pluralism has been a word that the

ethereum community has stated from from day one uh and so like I totally agree with you it's like there are many variables and the layer one ecosystem that wins is going to be the one that harmonizes all of them better than anyone else mm-hmm yeah yeah exactly and I think you know it's not just us saying this either like people will come at us or or kind of hit back at us and say you know you can talk all you want but like the proof is in the pudding so to speak and I mean it is though like people will always will um complain and they'll say you know why are people using ethereum layer twos when they are inferior Tech wise to our layer one blockchain it's like okay well maybe take a step back and just actually ask yourself that question and then go do some research understand why

because there's no point asking that right to you know it to just avoid actually exactly you need to you need to internalize it you need to actually deal with it and you need you know I see so much cope over this sorts of stuff and you just have to deal with it right you have to go out there and you have to think okay why is this the case to me my kind of answer to that question is the social layer the reason why ethereum has uh I guess like arguably inferior Tech that is more adopted than something that is better is because ethereum has such a strong social layer that it attracts people to build within that ecosystem it attracts people to smart people to want to be in that ecosystem for the long term they're not mercenaries they are

missionaries which is actually something I should have mentioned before there's that mercenary missionary balance and I think you only get missionaries if you hit all three of those categories in a nice fashion otherwise you get mercenaries on one side of things like you can have mercenaries in the economics uh that where they just want to pump their bags as high as possible you get mercenaries on the social layer they just want to basically run in governance circles about and philosophy circles about what a blockchain should be and how this should act these are the governance heavy heavy chains uh out there I'm not going to name names I don't want to I don't want to start flame Wars and then the the technical side of things as well right where you just kind of uh um do the same stuff there so I think that people just need

to kind of internalize this sorts of stuff and realize that it is because of that it is because of that that very strong social layer the tech at in the the day you know the best tech never wins when in technology it's always the kind of uh things that get adopted based on I believe a number of different factors but I believe like a strong kind of social a and a strong social presence and and onboarding obviously developers and stuff like that is is incredibly important so uh but but all this isn't to say that you can't like grow into this as a as an ecosystem because ethereum as I said before did not start with a good monetary policy and it did not start with a good technical roadmap ethereum started with a good social AI in my opinion uh because it started with

the right values in mind and attracted the right people from the start but the thing is is that if there is monetary policy arguably did not actually get fixed or get to the point where we all wanted it to be until the merge happened right and that was literally a year ago well 11 months ago now right so that was a long time seven years after ethereum went live or even eight years if you count the ethereum Ico right um and then the technical side of things really it's only the last two years where we've based basically pushed all the technical stuff to layer 2 and gotten a lot of technical Innovation happening there two to two to three years I mean there's obviously stuff that happened earlier the last two to three years is where it's really started to to take off so you can grow into the

other categories but the thing is is that it's incredibly difficult to do that because and it depends where you start from I think ethereum is lucky because it started from a good base with the social layer it didn't start from like the monetary base It Started from the social air base now it remains to be seen if you can start from the technical base and then grow into a healthy social layer and grow into a healthy monetary policy um I personally don't think most ecosystems are going to be able to do this there might be one or two that can get that can do this but again it's very very difficult and not something that will happen overnight it takes many years of uh of kind of like a meticulous planning from the community that's what and that that's why it happened for ethereum because the social air fixed

the monetary policy right the social layer um basically came together and said we don't think ethereum layer one should scale well for the world we think we should push this to layer two and then the social attracted the layer 2 Builders uh to the ecosystems and smart people to the ecosystem to build layer twos so that's why I think starting at the socialite is the strongest base you can start from and that's why ethereum has been so successful to this day uh and you know it remains to be seeing what other ecosystems end up doing yeah there's there's a line that stuck with me in my head where um if you have governance you can have everything and that that line was meant for uh actually decred of all chains yeah yeah but the point is is that if you can coordinate

your social layer then you can have anything you want and so like the social era I think is the hardest one I think it's the thing that most crypto entrants have the biggest blind spot towards they think it's just crit you know crypto economics technology money right um but it's but then so like we actually don't do a good job I think expressing the value of the social layer ethereum does um but like you're totally right if you have the social layer you can fix things that are Downstream of that but the Pinnacle of this whole thing or the foundation the layer zero of this whole thing is the social layer um so I came in and I think go for it yeah no I was just gonna say I think I think it's because the dogma of a lot of uh crypto sensors around uh uh this

decentralization myth of if you've got a lot of nodes if you've got a lot of validators you know if you've got a higher Nakamoto coefficient which I believe is one of the most worst metrics for measuring decentralization but there's this Dogma around that where it's like you've got all that your you know you're decentralized when not or like that's all you need um and it started it started in Bitcoin and it kind of uh permeated into other ecosystems or perverted other ecosystems um but at the end of the day what powers these ecosystems are the people right the people decide what these things are and what they are not and that is going to be true until the AI overlords take over if they ever do right and then and then it's up to them but but for now for the reality that we live in uh you know

humans run the nodes humans run the infrastructure humans run the validators and the miners humans decide on the changes you know with ethereum governance uh it's it's not on chain governance it's all off-chain soft governance um but ethereum ethereum's roadmap and it's upgrades are all done by humans and if Bitcoin was to ever do that uh like so that's for say for example it had a bug an inflation bug that needed to be fixed with a hard Fork who do you think is going to fix that it's not gonna fix itself humans are going to fix it right the social layer is going to fix it the social layer is going to come together and say we need to fix this everyone upgrade their nodes we're now going to run on this new chain that doesn't have this inflation bug anymore not the new chamber like the fork chain right so at

the heart of it at the heart of It ultimately it's the social layer truth that is the real truth we can build all the systems that we want we can make something extremely decentralized from a technical point of view and that's all well and good but at the end of the day what you need to build for and what what is the most important thing is like if everything else fails the fallback is the social layer if you have a [ __ ] social layout you're going to have [ __ ] outcomes and that's that's basically the ultimate truth in my mind yeah uh I gotta read you a comment from the YouTube uh Skynet thing David's beard is actually a zika roll up of zazzle's beard I actually had my dream to recently it was a lot longer so oh this is pretty long for me actually yeah yeah uh okay

I've got a rant for you and it is a a so like I come from uh in my character class coming into cryptos like the or not character class but like my background is psychology sociology so I come into crypto and like one of the most immediately fascinating things was tribes like tribes it's so obvious about tribes you run into crypto and you're like you discover tribes uh and so like I've got and so like that's been like the lens that I see crypto through and so I've got a audit a character analysis of like the archetype of the Solana community that I want to run by you ready okay but first we're going to do some uh ads to help sponsor this show thanks extra thanks to Kraken I prefer

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employ someone crypto is entering its regulated era and toku can help you achieve your token incentive award goals with compliance so thank thank you to all the sponsors that support Bank lists and all the podcast editors newsletter writers and operations managers who make the bankless organization the best that we can be we truly appreciate your support and for all the listeners out there who listen to the mountains of content that we turn out each week especially this one right here so let's go on to the show and we're back all right this is my take about the Solana Community like how how did the Solana Community come to be and so we have we have the outlier ones and all layer ones start off as an underdog right and then they attract some Community for some particular reasons like Solana was the tech and to give us

a lot of credit like the whole single shared Global State like leaning into the monolithic strategy is a competitive difference that like Avalanche Phantom just does not have so that's their thing right that's their Tech like single Global Short State and I think a lot of for a while during the the bear Market that you and I were kind of formed in as ethereans a lot of our identity was like built up by being um in contrast to bitcoiners because bitcoiners just bullied the absolute F out of us like your guys's monetary policy is broken you can't run ethereum full node and like even though like those things were fundamentally wrong like there were kernels of Truth there that actually we had to actually go and work on

at some point in time the ethereum community and I remember it was like right during defy summer and I know this because I had my POV crypto podcast episode uh podcast itself with me and my Bitcoin or co-host and as soon as the bull market started we just like split off like he went and did Bitcoin media I went and did Bank lists we just doubled down on our own respective ecosystems but the ethereum community grew up and we stopped being like in the shadow of bitcoiners and because because we had like technological escape velocity right we had things like eip1559 to Rally around we had proof of stake that eventually got shipped we had layer twos that started to form we had D5 we had our own our own home built narratives that allowed us to like grow up and have our own Foundation to stand on and stop

being out of the shadow of bitcoiners but a lot of us like learned to fight on Twitter that way and then then so like that was like the Bitcoin was the older brother it was punching us and we learned to have it grow a hard shell and like bootstrap our way out of that using you know technical growth and that was social layer growth the Solana Community I think there's a little there's definitely a lot of the same relationship that the Solana Community has to ethereans that ethereans had to bitcoiners so it's a little bit of the same it's also a little bit different like we bully the Solana Community we bully them because we think that their Tech is broken and we think that their social layer is broken and we're frustrated that they don't see that and so they I think a lot

of them have chosen Solana just to be antagonistic to ethereum not antagonistic like reactive reactive to ethereum and like what like the thing that fascinates me the most about this industry is that culture and people uh the code and the culture resonate with each other like code defines culture culture defines code and like Cal samani and multi-coin capital are like they are like we are the contrarian investors like everyone was Double Down doubling down on ethereum WE double down on EOS because it is contrarian to ethereum okay that didn't work but we're going to run back the same exact Playbook we're gonna just be whatever is contrarian to ethereum and that

frustrates you and me and like the ethereum community because we see like what we were talking about with like the harmony between the social layer technical layer and the economics layer and like I see like that goes like to the furthest reaches of knowledge like ethereum which is harmonizes everything and so to us we see people being contrarian to that and being like what the f are you doing ethereum is a single Singularity of all important variables and you if you're going to be contrarian to that like you're actually just working against the values of crypto that's like our perspective uh and so and but then the Solana Community is like learning about our Behavior so like you know think like some 15 year old kid and then you have some uh that's ethereum and then you have some like you

know six seven-year-old kid and they're like lured seeing their older brother their older sibling their older Network do things and exhibit certain behaviors and so like we kind of bully them but then they just need to they've learned to band together and also be bullies because this is what just tribal Warfare is doing this is the milieu of crypto but they are ethereum is doing it in my opinion because it has certain values and beliefs and perspectives around the world and then but the Solana people I think the the amalgamation of the Solana Community just complete blankets statements exists as a reaction to ethereum because that's one that's like the one of the reasons why like they are all coming together is because they think soul will pump from like 25 to 250. and it up versus ether I think a

large part of the identity of Solana is specifically to be in contrast to ethereum because we created we accidentally created that because we carried forth our trauma with the bitcoiners and then pass it down the line to this a lot of people except what the Solana people are is missing is like they have social layer blind spot because they don't see like all the variables that you and I were talking about earlier they just kind of see like hey if we band together if we like put our flag down and put our foot down and say hey you're not going to bully us uh yeah actually it's your guys's Network that's broken it's actually the monolithic way that's that's forward the same single shared State blah blah layer twos are never going to work et cetera they're playing

the games they're playing they're playing games on on Twitter and like they love to dunk they love to dunk they love to like tweets they love to say oh that's a ratio and they love to say that that's like proof of how this whole thing works but in reality they're just being one big tribe one big monolithic tribe and I think like a decent amount of ethereum actually created that in Solana because we taught them how to fight on crypto Twitter because we were the ones that were bullying them but it still doesn't change the fact that like they it is a reaction to ethereum and not because they are built under their own merits which is what I would say the ethereum community is and so like I think the Solana Community Salon is going to make it like they they have carved out their own

Niche and that's gonna there's enough of a value landscape there that they're actually gonna like be able to ride that and that's gonna work they think that they're going to flip ethereum they're always just going to live inside of our shadow because they can't because they that's now else up there that's kind of like my take no no I mean I think look you obviously spend uh more time in the Solana Community than than I do I don't really spend any any time there um but I think generally your points do apply to like a lot of our ones over the years if I'm being honest I think they're not exclusive to Solana because if you look at what a lot of the l1s do pretty much all of them do they do try to be contrarian to ethereum right because that is their moat that is their

competitive Advantage as you said that is the thing that they can latch onto and rally around now just I guess to keep it on context with the Solana context this is what I was talking about before about how because they are going down the monolithic approach right they believe in this shed Global State they believe in doing everything at layer one the technical layer is actually influencing the social layer yeah so their social layer is influenced directly by the the technical merits of salon honor rather than anything else so that's why they've got the monetary policy blind spot right and that's why their social layer is only focused on the technical stuff it's not focused on the other stuff that that goes into the social layer that as I explained before at least that's my kind of a view of

things as they have existed now I think this is very true for the other L ones as well like I see this in the other l1s they have sprinkles of their own kind of I guess niches that they follow like for example I mentioned before these governance heavy chains the ones that believe in like having uh never-ending philosophical discussions around how governance should be done you know they've got on-chain governance they want to debate this they want to kind of say okay we have a good governance system because of this this and this reason they go back in history and look at human governance systems and try to apply that to blockchains I guess we do that in ethereum as well we just don't do it at the base layer right we do it at the app layer so it's a different kind of abstraction there so it doesn't

influence everything it just influences who wants to pay attention to it so that's that's that's kind of why I was bringing up the categories before because I really do think that those three categories to hit on literally everything and explain pretty much everything we've seen play out in these L1 ecosystems but at the same time if we want to focus on the the L1 ecosystems as you know obviously there's the monolithic approach of the modular approach but there's also a different approach here as well there is the approach of what is your L1 trying to be outside of scaling right like what is it trying to actually be well ethereum is trying to be a certain layer for Value right it is not trying to be a globally uh executable and scalable uh execution

layer we've pushed all that to Layer Two so funny enough you could use the Solana execution layer which was what they are they're not they're not going for the settlement layer they're going for the execution layer you could use that as an L2 on ethereum and from you know what I've seen and what I've kind of researched that would actually work quite well right and would actually hit on the points that they still want they still want that globally shared State they still want that Ultra scalable execution layer it would still hit on that and that's not me saying that I I I that uh Solana should become an L2 on ethereum because they're inferior whatever but it depends on what your goals are if your goals are to do that then I think that that just works better in that context but they obviously want

to do it their own way and as you said before there is a contrarianism there which I totally get you know ethereum was contrarian to bitcoin ethereum was was very different to Bitcoin in the technical aspects where ethereum was like no we're actually going to do things on chain we're actually going to do smart contracts we're going to do D5 we're not going to Outsource these to to centralize services and exchanges so there was that contrarianism there so I do see the the similarities and I do see the different tribes that kind of form here um but it's it's funny how it all still fits into those three categories and and you can actually map out where they all kind of sit and you could probably do like one of those alignment charts or whatever you want to do and kind of map each ecosystem to it it wouldn't be an

exact science but it would it would give you a general picture of what things look like as I said it can evolve over time it is not a static thing but it definitely is is hard to to evolve so but yeah I mean I I can't comment too deeply on the silent ecosystem itself because as I said I don't and the community too I don't spend a lot of time in there um but like just from what I see and from from what I've talked to especially with you who do who does spend more time in there and other people uh that that's kind of what my what I say the focus too much on the technical stuff the social air stuff seems to be misunderstood or not not well understood by them and the monetary policy stuff I don't even need to talk to them to understand that

because I can see Solana's monetary policy I can see these other L ones and I can see that they're not sustainable and uh I don't think that they're um they're going to be sustainable for for the foreseeable future because the monolithic design I don't think it actually translates well to it to a good monetary policy but that's a whole different discussion there but yeah but this is what when I was talking about like hey if you have like economic blindness or social layer blindness you're actually you don't actually get to fully Express the best version of tech right you actually need a harmonization between all three in order to maximize all three and so like the again sweeping blanket statements here uh like a lot of the feedback and like criticism I get out of the Solana crowd

about layer twos is that like layer twos are fundamentally broken fraud proofs will never ship is like a line that like again not every Salon person says but like a line that I hear like fraud proofs are never going to work layer twos are totally not going to manifest and so they are taking they have to they have to that has to be true for their contrarian bet to be exactly right they need that that Tech to not be true so that their Tech can be true similarly for us we need the monolithic approach to not work and not be true for the for our approach to be true and to work right so it's kind of the same thing yeah but I would also say just like there are fundamental like logical constraints that the monolithic approach has like somebody yeah definitely is

like I remember totally talking about making ethereum a layer two on Solana lamau like you can't you can't like you can't hold layer twos on Solana and also the monolithic approach in the same breath like you must have everything on one single Network at all times but that never makes any sense because like say you have Solana and you have one gigantic Network you will also be able to scale it by making another Solana settle down to Solana like you can add more solanas like you can have a Solana layer 2 on top of the Solana layer one like the idea of putting the entire globe on one layer one is just not going to work at least that is the reaction that I am having and so

they they I mean that's why I prove them and that's why we believe in the roll-up Centric road map over the monolithic roadmap right that is that is really the Crux of it we don't think it's technically superior but obviously they do and I think it's also a bit of a kind of thing of hey let's try and do it right and and believing that they actually can do it because if for some reason we're completely wrong and actually can do it right then for them that's like a history defining kind of moment right it's a huge thing for them right so it's kind of they're kind of forced into that position because if they just say we're going to do l2s we're going to do the roll-up stuff well that narrative just gets shattered right of of being that contrarian dude I talked to uh Avalanche person that I

won't name names but like it was right after a talk uh at a conference and I went up to them because it was a layer twos versus like subnets debate and they just like after like they said like yeah we like we can't really do layer twos because ethereum took all the layer two mind share that's why we do subnets and I'm like did you really just say that out loud to me yeah the [ __ ] and so like that's why I mean like a lot of like Solana would do layer twos if if ethereum hadn't already captured all of that market share and so like they are com they are confined into the monolithic strategy because that's all that is left and so like they can't admit that layer two's work in any sort of flavor because that's bearish on like the whole Solana archetype vision for

itself exactly and and it's kind of what you see replicated across uh everything in I think in in life really especially with companies that compete on the same product they have to always differentiate themselves from their competitors even if it doesn't make sense so for example Apple removed the headphone jack right why did they do that it was a point of differentiation for them right it was something that stood them at make them stand out from the crowd even if it wasn't the the thing that everyone wanted or needed or was even necessary they did that right and then their competitors kind of followed them with it and then the competitors got made fun of because they're just like you're just copying them now and apple you know obviously is that but this is one example of

something that happens so and and I think that as you said like Avalanche doing their subnets it's like well we believe it's a strictly inferior system to l2s but they can't do l2s because if they do l2s they're just ethereum right yeah all right so and and I think that it also isn't just a technical thing it's also like a monetary policy thing for example in ethereum just copied bitcoin's monetary policy everyone would be like well I'm just gonna buy Bitcoin why would I buy a heath like it's the if it's the same thing so but but I I obviously believe ethereum's monetary policy is better than Bitcoins um but other people don't right and they they kind of like fall into the these different categories here but it's always funny seeing that player especially on the technical side of things where things just get done

because people want to differentiate themselves they think that that's the only way their product can succeed and I don't blame them for doing that because that is really a kind of prevalent thing that's been going on for you know as long as techno technological innovation has happened but at the end of the day you can't fight reality you can't fight the truth and the truth will reveal itself on a long and a half time scale and I think when it comes to ethereum and it's roll-up Centric roadmap the truth is revealing itself the truth is saying that ethereum's roll-up Centric roadmap is awesome everything that you flooded ethereum about like the I remember the seven day withdrawal period being a huge point of fight for optimistic robs no one talks about that anymore right the shared liquid stuff uh people talked about a lot as well they

still talk about it now but it's less of a discussion you mentioned the fraud proof stuff I mean Arbor stream has fraud proofs they're going to decentralize their fault groups it is it is and then they start fighting the sequences so every and that's another thing right when you when you kind of like have to meet reality you have to adjust the fud because you can know there's a reality Shield that goes up and it basically says well you can't fight this anymore like with people fighting the merge is never going to happen merge happens what do they pivot to withdrawals are never going to happen withdrawals happening there's something I've seen bitcoiners that have been fighting ethereum since 2019 are still fighting ethereum to this day and all of the fud that they have given us over the last four years we've executed on and

they're still bitcoiners why it's because they've picked a tribe right they are a reaction to another tribe and like that's the thing that frustrates me the most about like the Solana Camp it's because they've they've picked their identity they've placed their bets and they're doubling down on it no matter what and at some point Market humbles you I'm frustrated because like the Solano Community won't be humbled by the market I think for like four more years and in the meantime like Seoul is probably going to go up to 250 next bull market but they're still wrong well yeah I mean that's the thing like I guess regardless of price because I don't think price is a good metric uh a good measure of success in crypto um because I mean look at the top 10 top 20 it's pretty just stupid right

um but like I think generally on on the tech side of things like we can already see the winners and people will say oh well you know these other ecosystems will catch up maybe they will right maybe they will and that's the contrarian bet that you're making maybe we're totally wrong and Roll-Ups fade away but I just don't see that and it comes a point where it's like you can no longer deny the reality right the reality is this if you keep denying it you are viewed as a crazy person and then people just ignore you and that's why the Bitcoin Community turned inward so much and everyone really ignores the Bitcoin maximalist because they look insane right yeah because all those Smart Ones left and so it just left The Crazy Ones yes and The Crazy Ones kept saying stuff that kept being wrong and eventually

people just the smart people as you say they clue in and all the people who don't just aren't indoctrinated into that kind of tribe uh are like well you guys are insane you have said this same stuff for years and none of it has come true so they just leave so I think that again comes to social layout right when you have a social layer like that it it doesn't lend itself to good outcomes anywhere else yeah although I do have more optimism about the Solana Community more than like the current state of Bitcoin Maxi Community well yeah I mean I I think I think I have one at least yeah yeah I have more optimization optimism about any Community compared to the Bitcoin one uh generally but uh you know that's not a high bar but yeah I

mean as I said these things these things things definitely evolve over time communities evolve they change they expel the the people that the majority maybe doesn't want right and maybe sometimes you expel the wrong people like as I said the Bitcoin Maximus Community they expelled all the smart bitcoiners um but you know the Solana Community to their credit they've expelled all that crap from the SPF era I guess you could call it and they've managed to build up a semblance of a healthy Community for me looking in the inside inside I see some semblance there yeah it's definitely healthier so two-day credit for sure but as I said it is a extremely uphill battle if you started from a bad base it's going to be very hard to get to a good base on multiple fronts uh and

also you have competition you're not doing it in a vacuum you have competing ecosystems that also want to be the one that wins uh and they also have community that a very kind of tribal about their their thing whether that's right or wrong it's just the way I think crypto ecosystems work yeah certainly what what do you think is like the biggest thing on the ethereum roadmap future that is like so like the big thing that we had versus the bitcoiners is like proof of stake Bitcoin is for years we're like proof of sake is Never Gonna ship and then it did uh what do you think is like the next version of that that's on the ethereum uh Frontier well I think we're already seeing it in terms of like the L2 stuff right where as I was just saying before there's

fight around uh centralized sequences there's fun around them things not having fraud proofs which I I understand like the actual legitimate concerns around Ford proof's not being enabled right centralized sequencers is not nearly as as big of a deal as like the Sonic Community thinks it is like actually it's kind of one of the perks of a layer two is like you can actually have a centralized sequencer and it's totally fine that's the thing like they're overblowing stuff um in in that regard uh but yeah I think that word of centralized and they're like oh it's centralized yes exactly so I think that's totally overblown the um as I said the fraud proof stuff I understand the legitimate reasons for being concerned with that like security risks things like that but if your thesis is

that these are things are never going to have forward proofs that's just stupid because we already have an optimistic role-up in arbitrine one that has fraud proofs but and and the funny thing is about this is that we have a site that tracks all of this for the l2s we have l2beat.com which is the most amazing website that could have been created to track this right and we don't have l1beat.com we can't track all this stuff for L ones right we can't there's no there's no resource that exists for these l1s to track these sorts of stuff but for the l2s you have this you can go there and you can read about every single L2 you can read about their architecture you can go look at their contracts because there's links to that and and you can digest all this information and actually understand

stand this but people don't and won't do that of course right because they don't really care about that so that's the next stuff that I've been seeing it's all the L2 stuff the reason why it's the L2 stuff is because that is now the user facing layout the L1 stuff is very besides 4844 right which I haven't seen flooded yet I thought they put more people would fight this but I think they're just very behind I thought more people would find the fact that the blobs expire after a certain amount of time and they would use that and say oh that means you're never going to be able to know if that if that with what that happened was true or secure if that's not how it works at all but I thought there'd be more fun around that maybe I'm going to create the fight maybe I'm

making people aware of that now yeah yeah so so it's really just L2 stuff that the flood has kind of moved to and I think that's actually a really positive thing because as I said like the L2 fight is so [ __ ] weak like it's it's so weak it doesn't stand up to scrutiny and we have l2beat.com which tracks all this stuff that you can just easily link to people and say hey this is actually what it is you know this is what's happening here uh and and that and that's basically it like I know the L2 teams debates I guess is a word you can use against each other on on Twitter and things like that and as I said there are legitimate concerns but uh the fun that happens man it's just it's all the same it's always the same fight it's

always just [ __ ] maybe this is an naive take but I don't know as crypto industry grows up and progresses and we become more mainstream a lot of that just has to get suppressed like the flooding and the tribalism it becomes it becomes inside of stuff right man like exactly I I remember rating uh strings of emails from like the Linux developers and like who do you think's rating those emails it's not the everyday person it's Tech nerds who care about tech drama so like it's the same thing like do you think the the majority of crypto Twitter is reading debates between L2 teams no like the majority of crypto Twitter is looking for [ __ ] coins to gamble on right like it's it's it's

it's I think we're already at that point where it may seem loud to us because we're involved with that we uh you know we're amongst that kind of crowd but generally it's not and and like think about all the people who are buying coins on centralized exchanges they don't even know what an L2 is let alone the the debates around it yeah the the tweet I sent out yesterday about addressing the bank list Bud like we got so many comments inside the bank list Discord saying like they David why did you write this tweet like what was this in reaction to I don't even know what's going on and I'm like don't worry yeah it's like we're fighting with people it's okay yeah the the and that's the thing right like when you're at the when you're you're the one facing the fight in the brunt of

it you think that everyone knows about it right you think that you are the the thing that everyone's paying attention to in that moment because there's this drama but in reality most people have no idea what's going on because they're not plugged in like we are right into that sphere they're plugged into something else right so it's the same with with anything I think but uh yeah it's always it's always funny when that happens like I I sometimes wake up and I I see something on Twitter and then I go talk about it in the daily word Discord and they don't know what I'm talking about and uh and I'm like what do you mean I've seen it all over Twitter and I link it to them and because and they ask me when I when I [ __ ] post about it too or

when I I'm like memeing about it on Twitter like dude what are you talking about I'm like what do you mean didn't you see this it's all over Twitter and they they didn't they just didn't see it for some reason right so I think overestimating how much coverage something has is is something that we all do I think yeah certainly Amber verse in the chat just said gotta go guys I just thought that the daily way is up so since people are gonna go fly to the Daily way Anthony you want to pull up your YouTube channel so we can all see it oh yeah I can pull it up I mean I don't uh I got it here um 200 people that are have been watching this show and then all the people up on the RSS feed we're going to talk about what Anthony cesano does

every single day if you like this conversation Anthony talks every single day for 30 minutes 45 minutes a day he was paying some content debts uh yes yeah I I didn't do one yesterday so I uh I did one I didn't add extra long one today to make up for that I always do that because I feel bad for not doing it so yeah I'm trying to find the window here that I've got the thing on I have a million Google Chrome tabs open it's crazy like 30 minutes straight in a side of a single breath about everything that's going on on ethereum it's called The Daily way it's a YouTube channel it's also I get it on my RSS feeds and then he also writes every single day on his

newsletter oh no actually I don't anymore I haven't for a while I haven't seen that in a while yeah so I yeah always dominates over writing content doesn't it it does but it's also because I was writing the newsletter every day and I was doing the podcast every day and I was overlapping constantly with what I was talking about and I and I understand that not everyone watches the podcast never run you know reads a newsletter but I I just was like I'm repeating myself so much and it's a lot of work to write things like something every day it is so I might bring it back as like a maybe twice a week thing where I can write longer form pieces or maybe even once a week but yeah I mean as a fellow writer you know how intense it can be

okay I've been on a writing binge but I am slightly behind so that's actually going to be what I'm going to do today I'm going to write the piece that goes out on Monday we always should be doing this uh as more more than we actually do everyone enjoys it that's what I hear from the chat so appreciate you coming on brother yeah awesome thanks for having me on and uh yeah I guess like happy ethereuming if that's a word ethereuming all right Bank location and daily eatons what do you call your community daily wears yeah all right you know the deal cryptoskey crypto is risky uh you can

lose weight