#DappCon22: Day 3 - Group Currencies, Martin Köppelmann

Transcript

so I I have to give a pre-context here so that wasn't the prepared uh talk so there was another talk that got canceled so again this this will not be a full talk or presentation but it will just be sharing uh work uh work work in progress and it's probably also mainly interesting for those who are quite familiar with with circles because it builds on top and I will for this yeah assume um you are familiar with with circles so again it will not be a full presentation just just like yeah showing showing work that is in Pro in in in in progress but maybe just to yeah give again

um some some context um okay so there's another second so yeah in in circles uh again we have this concept that everyone individually has um their own tokens and yeah similar to the time tokens in the last concept those tokens yeah also disappear I think in circles they disappear at a

much uh um yeah slower rate than proposed for for this talk so kind of in circles we're talking about something like seven percent a year which still means they can they can have some yeah store value functionality however um just the fact that there are so many of those tokens or kind of those individual tokens so again this is this is my uh my circles account and if I look here into into Banking and into assets I see kind of uh the different um well assets I hold and kind of some of them are uh yeah Euro extra but here are actually the circles so kind of I have 5943 circles but I can click on it and

kind of see that I actually um hold those individual uh yeah circles from from individuals many of them are in the room actually right now um so so that makes it hard uh and then yeah it makes it hard for those tokens uh to to yeah have market price um because again the market would need to form around each of those individual tokens so so yeah one one way to think about group currencies is to say it's just a tool to make it easier to to trade circles but

another way probably a more profound way to look at it is that in the core system of circles the value often offer individual Circle really kind of in a way is tied to the individual only and maybe in addition to its its trust connections so maybe the kind of 2030 uh people it is uh connected to but maybe for Ubi uh that's not enough but instead from for Ubi to function um it can not only come out of my direct uh kind of um yeah trust connections or connections but it need to come out of a larger

group that I'm part of and I mean I think in general it's pretty intuitive if you are if you're the only person on an island it's pretty clear you cannot receive a Ubi because I mean from whom so or even if you would receive money it it wouldn't matter because there's no one I mean you will still need to fight for your survivorship just just just uh just on your own so again that that was um just the um yeah kind of yeah motivation and again limited what I can show you but I want to do it anyhow um so this is uh yeah kind of this is the view

um of of the individual circles and here again this is the all experimental but I can um check uh uh here kind of this this group this group currency applications yeah and um and and the very very simple the simple concept is um that anyone can uh create a new group you can give it a name

um and all the things that matter but but the the mo the the the most important thing is that then the group um can yeah Define who is who's who's a member of this group um and the members of this group they can use their own personal Circle and kind of convert their personal circle into um into this group currency so again if there's there if there's a group and here we have yeah already experimented with one that has 13 members then um yeah if you're a member of the group you can use your personal circles and they are

kind of yeah put put in a contract work there they're kind of put in a yeah we call treasury um and you mint the uh the same number of group currencies um now kind of it can be it can be up to the group uh to make sure that this group currency um yeah has has value and um the few examples of how that could work is Dao's um Dallas could say um well there are some people that work for us and get get paid directly okay but but there is a larger community that maybe doesn't get paid uh that maybe

doesn't get paid um directly but still we want to give them them some value for for their contributions in in their community so kind of we make those individual Circles members of this group and now the group sorry the downward kind of endow can be of course any any other entity as well uh this entity can use some of its resources or in the simplest term uh simply money or harder money um to uh to back um the group currency yeah so it took a while but uh um yeah it did work so or so yeah again

it's not um nothing too much to see but okay um yeah I think I I I'm locked in was a with the wrong count but but this is yeah how the minting um could work I think that's already it for for uh the group currencies again just uh work in progress of something that hopefully comes uh next um to um to circles guys we're going to a very short break and come back for the last panel please come back there's four or five very illustrious panelists here so very quickly we'll be back

five minutes I mean I think of the questions I think that's that's certainly possible I mean I don't think but um if they are Let There Be questions and then there were questions it's probably fairly obvious but the point of the circles uh the group's uh circles is that that flows to individuals within that circles and that those uh tokens and differentiated in the individual wallet or are they only available on the sort of group circles once again so so let's say a group gets an amount of circles those circles then

so in in in in Circ in circles kind of initially all the the money Creations only done at a personal level so in that sense a group never received receives circles so kind of individ individuals Mint or create their own circles and then the group this group layer is again just a way for let's say just all in this room uh form a group then um as long as no one has used their individual circles there are no no group currencies only as as at the moment where the first person out of this group puts in let's say 10 of their individual circles um then yeah kind of 10 group currencies

uh or group tokens are minted so I mean one way to look at it um it uh yeah at group currencies is it's kind of to say it's a kind of debt Union or so it's a with individual circuits you can see them as individual depth and uh and um yeah group currency would then kind of just be a basket of of of that of of of those who who belong to the group and then of course the group has uh yeah has an incentive or an interest to yeah uh keep keep trust in that in that group currency and then of course therefore it's relevant for the group to decide uh who can join so if it if it lets

potentially if it lets people join too Loosely including even kind of letting sybils or kind of fake accounts join then of course the trust in that group would evaporate but if on the other hand the group is maybe well kind of selective was who gets in but also maybe even offers uh some some resources that the group produces um then those yeah those cryptocurrencies um should have a market value and then again as soon as you are a member of such a group currency then the value of your individual

circles should always be at least as valuable as the group currency because you have the option to to kind of convert into it and you can very well be a member of four or five different groups and I think where where the idea of basic income here comes in is that like traditionally if you would kind of kind of receive or kind of be like like let's say you work for you work for four or five different entities then um then the kind of you would maybe get money from from each here they all just provide kind of the the stability net uh so if you are in five groups you don't

get kind of five times you get kind of kind of you you can just convert your circles to the most valuable uh group I mean you can only convert them to to one of them so you would probably choose the most valuable one um in a way so it's so it's kind of five safety nets above each other and if the four if the if the highest one kind of breaks you still have the other four thank you Martin um may we uh could you explain who could cook and issue the cryptocurrency what are the different ways yeah yeah here we have also um different I mean different configurations so one is uh there could be the most centralized one

that only or well that that only the group or kind of whoever represents the group and again that can be a wide range of well it could just be one person it could be uh there could be some process of the group could of course be representing a cooperative and that could have been internal structure it could of course be smart contracts could be daus so it could be just the group um that's option one it could be so then then there there are certainly additional controls uh possible that the Dow sorry the group says okay we only have so and so much resources so we only issue someone so much uh um yeah group currency so if if this

currency aims for the highest degree of stability it should probably go with this route to kind of control the supply in a way the second most open uh strategy would be to say all the mem members of the group can mint that already means that you are the the supply of you can no longer cap the supply of of this group currency because the members will continuously kind of issue or get their own circles so also the group currency or kind of the potential for the group currency to be created will continuously increase um but it still offers quite some level

of um or I mean there's this trust or control because again it's the members and they are kind of selected people um the third most open option would be anyone can do it who has a pass to the members so even if you're not a member but through the web of trust graph you can kind of convert your to you your I mean your your outside so you convert your personal tokens over potentially many hops um into circles that are part of the group uh you could also uh but that would be the most open uh option and kind of the consequence of that would also be

um if there is a group where the currency is tradable um and and it uses this open format then anyone within the whole network and potentially anyone in the whole network is or that's at least the Assumption becomes a small world assumption that anyone in the network is connected to this group if anyone's personal circuits are less valuable than that group those will kind of immediately flow a flow there because well then essentially you can convert your personal less valuable circles um into that what what will I mean the consequence will be that either then

this this group value will kind of decrease in value in your per and and that will and your circles will increase and eventually they will balance out that's option one or option two is the group currency uh could like if there's sufficient funding or sufficient resources will stay at this high value then either it will lift kind of all the value of the circles around it to the same level or um at some point um kind of all the all the money or kind of all the circles from the group member are already kind of sucked into the to the group currency and at this point it will no longer there will be no longer

liquidity or there will be no longer a connection from people outside of the group uh to the group money because again you need to exchange your outside circles into group members circles and those are already all held um in in the group or kind of more intuitive if you're very closely connected to the group you will probably benefit from it if you are far away then probably somewhere on the route uh kind of the liquidity or the connection will will dry out okay [Applause]