#DappCon22 : Day 3 - EVM, the eternal Web3 engine? Vogelsang, Küllmer, Schwartz, Schweitzer, Brack

Transcript

uh and we are I am at least should be excited about the discussion about evm because apparently we're operating in a centralized environment where everything is powered by EVMS so what do we do about it so this guy's saying Ripple maybe use a solution I don't know but let's give a round of applause uh for our panel so and Lucas I'll let you introduce the rest of the panel welcome welcome on the stage hi everybody welcome [Applause] um so yes welcome to the panel thank you everyone who made it through of three days of programming and uh it's

coming to the last session for today um I wanna ask all of you first to introduce yourselves but I have a bit of a prompt uh for you first of all obviously what are you doing and what's the deal with evm and how did you end up on this panel and then also like maybe let's start off with an easy question what that you can answer as well what what's your favorite thing about about the evm um maybe yeah let's start over here yeah hi glad to be here uh I'm Samuel co-founder and CTO at DIA we are a data collection and Oracle company and we use evm in a lot of different Forks so we we are deployed on

multi-chain on a lot of different implementations of evm so we see a lot of evm implementations in the real world intact with it make it work in our yeah stack and my favorite feature about evm is probably that it's always kind of the same interface on all chains so that it's very easy for us to deploy on multiple chains even if it's chains that are not natively evm but they sometimes have an evm implementation like a Gateway that we can use uh hi hi my name is Joseph Schweitzer I do Communications work with ethereum Foundation uh I'm just a fan of the technology I I don't think any of us can like Proclaim its uh final use cases but

it's opened a lot of interesting doors I enjoy watching the experimentation that it's created so uh just intend on having fun with whatever it is that we built hi everyone I'm David Schwarz one of the co-founders of polycon kermis and I'm taking the role of Pros Elite we are trying to build a scalability of ethereum on Layer Two by using serialized technology secure lab called ckbm and the ebm for us is kind of the the core engine the objective we want to replicate for users in layer 2 to be able to get this scalability transparently and yeah we love vbm it's uh it's the objective and we are very

excited about the project we are building I am Federico I am the co-founder of evmos which is an evm IVC enabled evm on Cosmos and I guess I love the evm or at least the ethereum ecosystem because it's mostly where like the research topics are happening in terms of VM and shared environment where most of the new applications are getting deployed um and it's uh very interesting how interoperability is coming into play trying to connect all these different ecosystems on creating like I guess an interchange of blockchains and and and

in some way um yeah maybe quickly some background also on me um and how how did I end up here I think I wrote my first solidity in 2017 and I have since spent a lot of time writing solidity um but I do actually bring kind of like also a bit of an outsider's perspective to this as like more recently so I'm a CEO and co-founder of centrifuge and more recently we've been kind of like working both in the polka dot world and and on on ethereum which means I've as a team we've been also working with substrate which I think has a very different um approach to building your your blockchain application your your

application logic um maybe my favorite thing about the evm is and maybe more of a solidity thing but but definitely also a big part of that is DVM when you're writing your smart contract in solidity and you then compile it down to evm by code really the amount of code you write and the kind of like problem Space is really limited to the uh like application logic so like when you read your token smart contract like you can really see only what's happening it feels like it's very clean and very little overhead and I think that makes it very easy actually to understand what's going on I always love kind of like that when I see us when I see some like technical solution in a smart contract and I can read it

and kind of like follow that um so yeah that thank you very much for kind of like bringing this perspective on evm which I think obviously is is probably undoubtedly like one of the big big um elements of success that made made ethereum what it is today right um so but there's probably a few people in the audience that actually don't really know what evm is because so far we've only talked about this three-letter abbreviation ethereum virtual machine so who here is brave enough to try to explain what the evm actually is foreign I would say it's a finished State machine so that probably doesn't help you a lot more but that's make let's

make it easier basically it's um it's a virtual machine in a sense of that there's something you can program this is running there's one instance running in the yeah in the ethereum chain in initially so there's basically one big supercomputer that everyone can can use and you interact with it only with transactions so that's the only way to get data in our data out um of data in actually and it's it's deterministic so it means if you have a transaction and you do something and you would do it in a second instance exactly the same would happen so for example there's no inbuilt Randomness or something like that so it's really predictable what happens and the message system or the the entire programming

system is based on messages so you can call if you have other contracts you can kind of send them a message so I always see this as a yeah it's basically a distributed system where you send messages around and these messages trigger other actions and these actions can then have consequences and again trigger other stuff or do calculations or change the storage change the state of something and that's yeah for example how we have tokens and how we can have all this token ecosystem which in the end if you boil it down is just a list of address and amount written in solidity cool thanks I hope that helped a bit let's see let's dive a bit deeper into into what DVM actually does so right

like DVM is what what most developers kind of like are first kind of like interacting with or are interacting with when they're building smart contracts for for the ethereum blockchain and many others like evmos l2s and there's probably a couple of dozen uh chains and other other variants of of DVM out there today um so kind of as you said it feels like there's an extremely strong like mode to to ethereum and ethereum like virtual machine and how it's kind of like developed over the last couple of years like like maybe um to you David question on like why this happened and where this is coming from and then also like how you decided to build

um your your scalability solution with evm compatibility while the answer to this question is easy because um we are a part of ethereum community from the beginning we are we believe in this uh objective of ethereum all these uh let's say this intolization Movement we were here for a long time and we were we're building always for this community so the objective was scalability for us was an important topic because we started building a project of a digital Identity On ethereum and this project was uh well it still is on the development is now

under polygon umbrella it's called polygon ID we started one called identity and this project is very interesting because we wanted to provide privacy and this kind of universal access to Identity for every user and we wanted to use the more secure and decentralized network so this is why we started on ethereum this project is still work in progress but at some moment in time with the defy boom and then the the prices of the gas were super expensive and we wanted to lean on all the experience we had on general knowledge to start building scalability CK basis scalability and we started the the Hermes Network project together with Jordy and Anthony

and all the team most of them they're here uh this was very exciting project for us because the initial state was to scale payments but we always had in mind that ethereum was about programs and smart contracts so all the learnings we got from this initial version we are now getting all this experience and the audience is playing here two hours ago this uh this way to scale ethereum is super complex because everything was not designed to run on a CK virtual machine but we have been working super hard for last year and we are in a situation very close to launcher test net so we are

super excited and happy about that of course the way we are implementing that is uh by building a new processor let's say algorithmic processor that's let's say extensible that's something we can let's say provide more features more opcodes but the objective is to provide the the ethereum uh the ethereum ebm equivalence maybe we can talk about this later but uh but there's no discussion for us it's no-brainer we wanted to to a scale ethereum so ABM is the first thing now within Foundation of italic specifically is talking about a lot about secret relapse a lot and yeah we

are super excited to to make this contribution so so you you talked about um evm equivalency and and maybe to to to kind of like break down to the audience right that's the idea that um a layer 2 is actually able to kind of like evaluate contracts smart contracts the same way that um the ethereum mainnet and other like fully compatible chains are now you Federica um founded founded fmos and um said actually we want to bring the evm to Cosmos right so in a way you made this a similar decision saying well like to make make our blockchain our project successful we want to adopt evm and make

it make it make kind of like this developer experience available to everybody how what do you have to add to this yeah um I think the the like we started as like a library that maybe if you've been in the ecosystem for a while you've probably heard of it's it was called ether Min back in the days it was created in late 2016 as a proof of concept for how to plug in the evm into tendering consensus but it got delayed actually and the team was Paz hunt from one team to another and then the project itself never saw the light and I was working on it in the past and

decided to give it a Twist in the sense of baking in Native interoperability the cosmos started to provide when they launch IVC and completely change the scope of work of the project and that's why we decided to Rebrand to evmos to give it a little bit more focus on Native interoperability that customers provided and so the main challenge here is like how to combine these two ecosystems into a single one while maintaining uh what David said like uh evm equivalents and that has been one of the main challenges and uh because I guess go ethereum itself we work in in golang specifically wasn't designed to

be meant uh frame load a framework for for building evm compatible chains and so like the the challenge here was like how do we modify some of the components here so that we can still have something that is compatible with the Json RPC and like whatever the decentrals applications are expecting but at the same time can still benefit from all the apis and the interoperability that Cosmos provides and I think that has been like one of the major challenges in you know like baking in the cosmos interoperability into the evm

so so maybe um Joseph you want to share a bit of what it was like at the ethereum foundation to kind of like build out um evm which I guess Laura in the beginning was just kind of like a part of Geth and and how that thinking has evolved I know we had the ewasm experiment for a while actually I've I've kind of lost track of of it aragonia um but like how do you look at it and like where do you see like the evm as a part of the tech stack of the the ethereum ecosystem so you can be a loaded word so is it how I look at it or how an org looks at it uh the org doesn't um the you know where the technology

goes where the community goes is entirely up to the ecosystem these debates that take place uh we were joking backstage about um Devcon for these Lively debates before the conference at a status hackathon where uh ewasm folks and evm people were kind of going at it trying to figure out the best path forward but um you know consensus lands where consensus lands and um generally is an org it's sort of like a big Community you know different tents do different things there's event groups there's fellowships development teams come and go but EF isn't really a Dev Hub anymore in the same way that

um you know you might have a something Labs you know Lucas Labs do a Lucas chain and Lucas Labs built the one client and you know so on and so forth um the the I think the reason that the reason that we have Layer Two implementations and implementations on other layer ones um and groups bridging between them is simply because that's the stack on which the users chose to build and while edits core you know evm and ethereum are very married um the technology and the communities

will go over the technology and the communities go you may have the ability to settle to ethereum in the future but player twos and layer threes they can build in their own architecture which is fine um and and I think um because you know you'd asked about the the org side I think their focus the focus is just um you it's uh you hear this analogy uh in the title of you know documentaries and and and books at this point but in infinite something Garden machine on and on um the idea of that Garden is you kind of you're one of the people tending to it you know you give a grant to a grant needs to be given if zero knowledge

research needs to be done and that's not something that has a funding mechanism without a token model make sure that there's a group that's protocol focused um that does it if there's a an up-and-coming Community um that could lend a lot to the ecosystem but they're not in an area where all the developers usually are uh that they have funding to do what they need to do but coming back to the evm it's um this is kind of where the the tech stack has gone uh ecosystem lied and it's interesting to see right the the speaker before we joined the stage um was working on uh an ebm implementation on polkadot and we have uh groups here even evm implementations on in in Cosmos world I think um

uh there will always be other implementations other engines uh ewasm you know we mentioned cosmosm you mentioned substrate but um you know there are architectures here that for everybody building applications they tend to want their things to work with one another and I think that that's why no matter where you look whether it's in ethereum world or Layer Two world or alternate layer one world these DVM implementations are just sort of popping up and popping up I'd love to maybe later talk to talk a bit about well like what are the alternatives to evm or if that really is is the one and only path as it feels like today but maybe before

um Samuel you you use the evm for for kind of something that's maybe a bit different than um I guess the three of you ethereum polygon and and everyone's but so what is it that evm plays in in India and how how did how did that um decision um come about to kind of start using it it was a very natural decision because um yeah as was pointed out before this is basically where the users are and where the ecosystems are and if you as a as a new chain or new ecosystem you bring up an evm compatible layer maybe it's internally something different but and you're way more

Innovative but you still have this evm competitive layer where you can do transactions with like the usual cause suddenly you can deploy the taxes you can deploy staking programs you can deploy basically everything pretty much out of the box just by the click of a button very high level view but um that allows you to basically um yeah start up an ecosystem in in very very short time you don't need to develop everything from the beginning you also profit from improvements in in these protocols so you bring basically the big tested stuff into your new project if you make a new project I think it's a bit like the Internet Protocol in the in the TCP IP stack so there's a lot of stuff under it which is

different there's a lot of stuff above it from from a architecture perspective which is different and there's a lot of varied variety but evm is kind of this one block in the middle um where if you want to be part of this big ecosystem you you better be compatible with it because then it's very easy for everyone to integrate and this is kind of the one standard I think that's in this yeah in this smart contract world where if you want to do something with smart contracts broadly spoken when you have this you can have a very broad user basis in a very short time otherwise you need to build your own ecosystem you I mean you can do that you need to have probably grants to develop us to build something like attacks or similar to your to your own system you spend a

lot of resources on that and maybe it feels a bit like evm has become a de facto standard and I think also what what helps this obviously is this very open standardization process inside the evm so these Improvement proposals and stuff like that which is very open and open to the community and I don't think it's called a Dao but it's basically it works like one um even before that was before this term was coined in this in this in this presence like it is now um I think this helps out to yeah to really bring this to the community because the community can also change it if you wanted to have a new pre-compile you can add an ethereum improve your proposal and then it might get in in in

in the standardization process then you can put it in and then you can be sure it might not have been picked up by others yet but if they pick it up they will pick it up in a way that it's compatible with the stuff that you build on your own chain so it's also extendable from uh from from a future proofing point of view so I think there's a set of like governance rules and like also the technical side is pretty clean I think this combination makes it very viable for kind of having this yeah um this role of this almost unique protocol in the middle somewhere which I think is very hard to overpass if you want to if you want to do another one um yeah that might be pretty hard to get so maybe that's a good a good um topic actually that I wanted to ask all of you

um it's it's getting hard to overtake evm and so maybe like like we're I mean to me it still feels like crypto is is maybe where the internet was in the early 90s right like we're definitely not in the 2020s with a blockchain on every watch but um so so it kind of feels like well okay like evm has is this has this huge position um it's obviously also a big hurdle actually to experiment um for people to try to build Alternatives because well like if you're not compatible you you miss out on this entire ecosystem you're at a big disadvantage now do you think that's that's the case and it kind of like maybe it's almost slowing us down

because I know we've had um quite a lot of discussions about evm that are very much unsolved topics like State rent for example will require a lot of rework and I I see very little actually in that happening in kind of like the mainstream um kind of like application development side like programming language development right other other areas as well where like um maybe David you have something to add there but like cryptography that's just kind of like holding all of um ethereum back and a lot of evm chains as well because uh just certain curves are not supported but like what what do you think um and maybe starting here with you Federico like are we getting held back and where are we being held back by this

I think the main thing is to start thinking of the AVM as a product um rather than just like a stock that is there and like everyone can use I think most of the protocols here and also um other chains for example Moonbeam are taking like a like a more hand sound Hands-On approach where they're like switching some of the op code implementing eaps that I haven't made it to um to Main and ethereum for example uh implementing stable pre-compiles so kind of like pushing DVM a little bit further into Atmos also in terms of interoperability

and functionality with the rest of the cosmos ecosystem um pushing it to a new frontier and I think that's that's one of the main things that we as a community should be trying to do I I completely agree with that the ethereum governance especially like in the forums and making into the specification process is is great but I guess we need to start being more Innovative and how do we Implement um EIP is a for example like account attraction for to provide a better user experience for the end user

um should be something that we should maybe focusing on um and that's where like all these new chains that our evm compatible are pushing things forward um because then for example the ethereum community can say look this even compatible chain already implemented this and has seen great success or actually it wasn't the results weren't as expected so we may not decide to implement it but having done us us out of reference um could be could be great in my opinion to to start um pushing things faster to to ethereal Mana do you want to add something well I have

a different perspective here I understand that the ethereum needs to evolve and it's uh it's good we have a needs for for evolution I absolutely agree the applications need more and you write the secret relapse that we are pushing so change so many changes but also this is because the ethereum foundation roadmap is like this so the execution layer will be the strategies to use rollups so the next different information has its own roadmap uh but I will ask also to to share the point of view of a layer 2 Network we are listing in our best interest to simplify as much as possible because it's as it gets complex it's more difficult to replicate this on zero

knowledge first topic and the second one at some point in time we will be very happy to decentralize because it's not minimizing governance only also we'll need to to create some public good that's uh so that's just free just uh we need to to freeze in some way sometimes in time the the stadium the BBM should be at some point in time Frozen so we can decentralize completely but this is just the goal you know it's uh maybe we are far from that with this this uh a process of discovery what which are the needs and of course the evolution needs to happen but uh from the perspective of a CK roll up uh we have these

complications you know it's uh this benefits for applications uh sometimes they are a problem for us and this this mindset of uh becoming a public good and decentralized is also interesting property for us happy merch day everyone yes so we've got about 13 hours and uh I'll speak for the next 12 and a half one quick correction I will say that not only does ef not have a road map ethereum doesn't have a road map um

if there was ever a road map you know in the beginning Olympus is the test net Frontier Homestead Metropolis in three parts in Serenity if you're still waiting for serenity I'm waiting with you there was a pivot and a general road map if you ever saw that really nice consensus video layer phase zero 2019 proof of stake phase one 2020 sharding phase you know two um are you talking about East 2.0 yes this is the East two roadmap okay so you went from the serenity road map to the through road map um but things got scrambled right everything's happening in parallel now one happens before 1.5 happens before one with rollups two is not really necessary anymore what even is a roll-up

model is it optimistic or is it ZK who wins I guess we have to let them compete for five years and see what happens um the ecosystem outgrew any development Hub and a development Hub phased out from being a development Hub so starting there and I'll put a pin in it and come back to saying sufficient decentralization matters I know that I'm a broken record to some people here that I've talked to before but competition breeds community um and to look at this point to the original question right does adoption of the evm hold back other Technologies um

I'm a believer that anything that can be tried in this ecosystem or industry or space whatever we call it should be tried and tried really well I'm not sure I agree with that one of the lessons one of the things that we learned from first the ethereum classic fork and then Bitcoin cash or gold or diamond or uh Craig Wright's vision is that uh you know like people are wondering around the the merge will there be a fork I mean there can be a scam Fork but there's always a reason to Fork there's incentive there's incentive to try everything there's incentive to try you know again substrate or cosmosm wherever else we go

everything should be tried but you do have a natural gravity to use a nice little cosmacy term um to adoption of the evm and one shouldn't hold back the other um I I hope one doesn't hold back the other just because a lot of folks use the evm means that we shouldn't experiment with you know different types of settlement different types of execution um but in ethereum land one of the reasons that there's a rate of execution that's fun right there's a thousand different

things being tried at the same time there's a hundred people arguing on YouTube channel on YouTube calls every two weeks you know the proposals being made and I think vitalik has the most on uh uh the most dead eips sitting on sitting on the channel it's not like when you get to an ecosystem and everybody's waiting on seeing what the founder says and they really only do what the founder says and they you know you constantly go back to your Labs or your foundation or you know whatever it is kind of like waiting for somebody to execute or to tell you what's up there are so many people trying so many different things that good ideas sort of pan out and it might be the case that even if a technology is a little bit better um that it can be it can live on a layer

too and settle back to a layer one it doesn't need to replace sort of this entire ecosystem everybody here that's building doesn't need to sort of learn a new tech stack um we can specialize um you know I used to call myself L1 Maxi just because I loved seeing all the different experimentation but I've recently started to think that maybe that's not the case there might still be great niches uh about where some Industries will find use for Stacks that aren't great for let's say shared security models there might be Consortium chains that can interact with one another but that don't settle to the same place right you guys are kind of working in

that space and I think that that's very cool but you might end up in a situation where a couple are enough maybe it looks kind of like you know you've got windows and iOS or Android and Apple and everything else is kind of like a Linux variant where it works for a couple of folks but it's not necessary on sort of a world stage experimentation is great and I hope that experimentation doesn't slow down but I really think that the way to get there no matter what the answer is is that these groups should really focus more than anything on sufficient decentralization because no one you know Labs or Foundation or whatever it is is going to have the manpower to build all of these things out and instead they end up competing

for these communities they're just trying to pull in the same few prominent applications to run an implementation over here and try this and a paid partnership over there it's not enough to actually build a community um so you know uh contention breeds Community more internal conflict the osmosis versus Cosmos Hub kind of spat in Cosmos World last year was great because what you saw from it was they survived um you know they survived founder battles and fallouts in the same way that when uh uh Geth and parody kind of butted heads it proved out ethereum's multi-client architecture now you've got 10. so what's Geth going to do it might matter now but a few months ago what prism is going to do matter the most but

now you know you're gonna have Sigma Prime's Lighthouse flip prism in in uh uh potentially in terms of users and you have a nine and I think now 10 clients in ethereum land so the way to play these experimentations out and to not have everything end up in evm land um is to sort of keep trying keep fighting and and uh uh yeah make sure that the communities grow and not just uh uh sort of the folks that are closest to the center because to bring it back to the first point and I know I thought I would talk for a while and I did but um you know EF has no road map and it doesn't try and dictate one that's the superpower it's that everybody in the

room here is contributing to the roadmap thanks what what about what do you have to say to that Sam yeah I mean I I don't think that's um the evm is like killing progress or it's I think it's flexible enough so that it can be because the actual at least the interfaces I mean the internals I don't know um maybe that the subject to change later on but I think the interfaces that are kind of standardized right now they should be am I in my experience there simply enough that you can already be very flexible of what's running underneath it and what's also running above it and maybe your protocol has some extension so you can do more

um and I think that's not that's not a bad thing that you can do that so so I think it's flexible enough which is also why I think it has been so successful if it wouldn't have been so flexible it would not have been adopted so far so I think it's not in a case maybe sometime in the future it might be that there's something fundamental like with ipv4 versus IPv6 but these are still kind of compatible um and yeah I know the migration is going on since 1995 but that also shows that um it's it's really hard to migrate away and that you can build the entire internet around even if you know that eventually you're gonna need to move because the IP addresses will run out but you find a lot of

workarounds and if you think of it as a product the end user doesn't care if it's a workaround underneath or not it's just okay it will work it will work fine enough and if yeah smart people find ways around certain limitations which I think is is the case here then it will continue to work so we spent like the majority of this time so far without actually ever talking about solidity um but obviously kind of like hand in hand with with the evm is is also solidity right like I'd say while it's not a requirement uh of course you can um compile other languages into Yule or or evm by code um the truth is right the vast majority

is using solidity today to develop and most of the developer ecosystem is actually not just for evm but it's actually evm plus plus solidity um what do you think what do you think about that like do you think it's going to be event we're going to start to think synonymously of evm and solidity in in the future right not start but actually continue to think of that or or do you think this will change and do you actually have a is there a secret uh Viper fan in here or uh or someone working on another uh language I think it also comes into like the adoption of solidity and the amount of tools that you can find on salinity um I remember back in 2017 when I was uh

learning uh how to program smart contracts uh Piper was still in the underdevelopment I I tried it out but after seeing the uh so what do you have more tooling like I I kind of like start composing knowledge on one single environment and I think that's for developers the most important thing tweeting from one language to another one takes time and takes effort and I think that's why right now because uh solidity has been present for the longest time has been Gathering a larger community at the moment but it doesn't mean that any of these other new languages or compilers

are are less important yeah I think solidity got to a point where it's not only about ecosystem of Developers for me it's about also experience accumulative experience and if you are trying to build let's say projects that get some I mean this is in the internet of the value you know so it's uh project needs to be healthy that needs to be safe for users so the more capacity of uh becoming Auditors because the reviews of we are getting these talents now with our project we don't have experience in the market so you are very worried about how we get the best Auditors the most smart

people on board to check my project because for me that it's safe so for me the experience is the the critical mass of solidity I think it will be difficult to get all these accumulated experience in other language um so generally the thought these days is that a teacher ethereum's feature is very modular you know you've heard enough talks and podcasts about you know monolithic and modular and whatnot so in the spirit of the last answer on experimentation again where there's a fit for something different the beauty of it is you can write in Cairo you know use starkware uh uh and settle to

ethereum if uh um if there's something else out there bringing it back to the um evm I was at an optimism talk last night in Carl Florida put this map up having to do with um bedrock and sort of the modularity of what they're building you can uh use the um you know he had an evm logo on the screen uh uh and you can come down here or you could use move VM in the future a little move VM logo uh go whichever way you want as long as it the settlement layer still settles back to the main Network that works but also yeah there's just a hardening over time you know there's this old saying and everybody here has probably heard it to death but

you know is it 10x better or the VHS and sort of betamax thing where um uh uh over years and years and years and years literally works so it's funny when we had these early years of experimentation it was this is going to be better than that but now that um ethereum's kind of crossing the threshold into like legitimacy land um how much better does the next thing have to be for us to kind of rewire and um if you rewire is a kind of special purpose where it still ends up in this you know uh evm land solidity land back at layer one or should we kind of like move the whole ball uh uh move the whole

game uh so uh I would say that more recently just to me at least subjectively it looks um like there's a there there in terms of yeah it's hardened to a certain degree there's a reason why people use it and maybe these battles were all kind of having these layer one fights different languages different ideas different virtual machines um it I don't think that there's one winner but maybe um you know there's again a few that find a niche everything should try and find a niche and you definitely have your niche in both evm land and solidity land yeah I think in terms of language I think everyone at the moment yes solidity is like the the clear one that

everyone uses also because most libraries are mostly in solidity but I mean if you look at the Java virtual machine you also have other languages that coexist um that apparently get used sometimes and I think it's it's a strength that maybe hasn't been used yet so far because solidity is fine enough for everyone to develop but I think for example if in the future someone comes up with a very easy to use um language there where you have formal verification in it for some subsets of the evm um and I don't want to open the can of worms generally just as an example um but where you have features like that where you can say okay I don't need the audit in anymore maybe because I can prove that my subset of stuff that's maybe not fully touring complete is safe

then maybe people use it for this use case so there might be specialty languages in the future or maybe not maybe it's just in 20 years everyone still says okay so let us use the best one because I think it's from from like a usability perspective pretty easy to read um as you said you can abstract out a lot of the stuff that you don't need in the business logic and have token contracts that are just a few lines of code and have very clear yeah almost like soil code sometimes to read ah if you see a contract and if you know a bit of solidity okay this does that that that's it so I think this is a huge strength and but I don't think it's like cemented and also it's not designed to be cemented in

that way cool so I think we have about probably like between 20 and 30 years of ethereum and like crypto experience here on the on this stage so um I want to thank you to dive deeper into this but I also wanted to give the uh chance I think we have the ability to ask uh for the audience to ask questions and uh maybe get some some other ideas that you have about evm solidity or let's face it also uh the merge um that you'd like to ask and I don't I see absolutely nothing so maybe

um you need to just Shout any questions on the late uh Wednesday night not that late um well good otherwise I wanted to say thanks for coming um maybe just very quick closing thoughts um and from my end well yes I said how much I love the evm and how uh how cool it is to read a contract and I I'm really excited about what's about to happen it happened tonight so I guess everyone all the best with uh waking up tomorrow to a nice little surprise

or probably more likely actually waking up and sitting there and saying but yeah anyway best of luck maybe quick uh comments yeah um that's a closing thought I think like the evm is still well positioned like it's been said multiple times that every time a new evm gets deployed to a new ecosystem polkadot Cosmos and other ecosystems that are focusing on different things it completely ends up dominating the space and that's because of the developer adoption that the evm still has and I don't think that is going to change in the near term we see at least from our point of view the evm as a product that

can be further maintained and developed and you can add new functionality on top so looking forward to to talk to all the different developers and and get some ideas around that too sure that our objective was to to scale ethereum from the beginning evm is the focus for Layer Two so we are super excited to make this contribution and we totally think that dbm is kind of the the way to go to do a transparent scaling and to to pave the way for the freedom to continue in this position of let's say first Network let's say to keep the support from the community and yeah super excited about that

uh I'll just say that um it's it's been a crazy ride ethereum continues after tomorrow and still has a lot further to go but for you know whether you're brand new or you hit the Subscribe button on our slash ethereum eight years ago um you know the original Vision was to get to this point that lands in about 12 hours and it kind of feels a little bit magical I used to be in politics and I I keep humming this election night theme song and uh so it's fun to be a part of it with everybody and to see to what an insane degree it's grown so keep building what you're building and uh in whatever ecosystem you choose but uh yeah it's it's it's good to be here yeah

what's to add to that so um I think the evm really um yeah holds everything together in the in the current ecosystem it's nice to see that even uh even in this fast growing World our code written in 2017 isn't outdated so that we can still use it um and I think that's also a testament to how well the community governs it and how well it actually works also in compatibility layers and on the on the ethereum mainnet itself so pretty pretty happy about that yeah so thanks everyone and yes I think we all agree on how awesome tool evm is and how much it'll contribute to

the merch tonight and the ecosystems built around it thank you everybody [Applause]