From crypto cycles to structural growth: Reserve One's Jaime Leverton

Transcript

I don't think the uh the dust has fully settled from 1010. I think I think that shook up a lot of markets, a lot of traders, a lot of lot of retail. There was a lot of leverage in that shakeout. >> What's up everybody? It's LG Ducet here and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show that knows Bitcoin hasn't changed even if the market has. Today's March 26th, 2026. We are recording on March 25th. We're at a crucial moment in the history of finance. It may not feel like it with crypto kind of in the gutter and so much turmoil globally, but looking back years down the line, we may see 2026 as the inflection point when things really changed. Our guest today has an extensive tech background and is full steam ahead building in crypto for the

next leg up. Jamie Leverton, CEO at Reserve 1, a diversified digital asset treasury company in the process of going public. This is they are in transition. They're getting ready for this next big thing that's about to happen in the market. She's on the show with us to talk about what this moment means in the history of finance. Today's episode is brought to you by Sharand Trade Real Estate like stocks and Nexo. Earn interest, borrow and trade crypto. Jamie, what's up? Welcome to Milk Road. >> Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. >> Okay, so let's let's just get right into it. Okay, you've been doing this for a while. You have a tech background. You choose to be in crypto. Tell me, are are we actually do you agree that this is a bare market and that we're not going to

see anything change for at least another six months? Or do you have a do you have a different take there on what what's going on? >> Look, I uh I stated publicly in the in Q4 that I thought the four-year cycle was dead. [laughter] So, I'm I'm I am sticking to my guns on that. Although, um it doesn't it doesn't feel like I'm right right now. Look, it's really really difficult to time the market. I think anyone that tries to time and trade around Bitcoin in particular uh is is taking a lot of risk. You just you don't want to miss those big legs and you you really can't predict when they're going to come. Uh so I've always been a a long-term holder and I I don't pay attention to really daily price

action as much as I can, although of course it's hard it's hard not to. >> What What drove you to believe that the four-year cycle was dead? What was that what was that based on? It's really difficult to see the signal as clearly as before. The kind of the four-year cycle was based on the supply demand involved in uh in Bitcoin miners and and the supply coming online and then obviously it getting cut in half every uh every four years. But there's just so much there's so much more activity, so much more trading that I just don't think that supply shock has that much of an impact anymore given just how little how little new supply is coming into the market every four years at this point.

We're already at 20 million Bitcoin in circulation. The rest is going to uh dribble out over the next, you know, 120ish years. So I just I don't think that that uh that supply demand relationship is as important as it historically was. Uh that said, people get ingrained in patterns of behavior and and potentially the four-year cycle is just an now an ingrained pattern of of how people think about the market, how they trade around the market. H but I don't think it's here. It's here to stay. Um and I think there are a lot of catalysts that we could see in 2026.

Obviously, we're all um anxiously awaiting news on on clarity. And I think there's still a lot of optimism that we could see clarity get through before before recess here, which would be I think a catalyst for for the industry. It's something that we absolutely need and uh we're hoping to have seen passed before now. We had such great momentum in 2025 with Genius, you know, coming out with bipartisan support and really really accelerating uh with pace and and then clarity has just unfortunately been uh been slower to evolve.

>> Everything you're listening to today is also covered in our daily crypto newsletter. And on Sundays, we even recap the best parts of the entire week's worth podcast. So check it out at the link below. >> So Jared, I'm going to stop you there. We've talked about clarity a lot on the show and we can come back to it in a little bit, but I I'm I'm still curious to know like you're somebody who clearly understands that your bullcase on this stuff is is really the tech side, right? You're saying it's going to take a long time to mine it and as a result it's like this silly four-year cycle that we're supposed to have. Uh that everybody foresaw is just like this this kind of fake math. It's like we just made it up as as crypto was kind of still a small asset that that should

have been over. But now it's pointing to that it's not like how do you how do you reconcile that? Like how what would what would make you believe that the four-year cycle is intact? >> Well, [laughter] if if if we continue to trade where we're trading in this, you know, kind of we've been in this in the 60 low 70 range now for you know four months maybe longer. Uh if that continues for another six 12 months before we see it start to move back up, then that's that would indicate the four-year cycle is is still intact. I I think we're going to test uh test new highs by the end of 26. That's that's my perspective. And if and if that is the

case, then I think we can we can safely say that the four-year cycle is dead. But we'll see. It's it's uh it's now what late March and uh and we haven't we haven't seen that those catalysts yet. [laughter] >> It doesn't feel like it's coming anytime soon, does it? Is it is this something where somebody like you guys um where you know you you have a much different mission than just price action, let's say. Obviously, that's the long-term goal. Mhm. >> Is is are are stretches like this like the last 6 months um when you work at like a a DAT like like where you guys are is this like a distraction like how does this kind of change uh like the kind of work that you guys do? Do you

get oh no like does anybody think internally like oh no we were wrong about this or or is it just oh we're just going to you know we're getting it we get to get in at better prices in a way. >> Yeah I mean that's that's the silver lining. It is a it is a better entry point uh where we're sitting now versus where we were in in um in the fall where a lot of people deployed in into the the all-time high range in in September October. So yeah, from that perspective, it's a it's a nice nice entry point, but it doesn't really change what we're doing from a from a day-to-day perspective. um we we will be diversified, we will be active, so looking to put our assets to work to generate returns on the assets while we hold them on on balance sheet. I've I've

been in the space I I was took over as the CEO of HUD 8 in uh in 2020, which was kind of the start of of the the the bull market in that cycle. And um and I was the first CEO of a Bitcoin mining company to say, "Look, I'm not going to sell my Bitcoin." uh we're we we took a huddle position which um was really because we had and I and I continue to have a long-term belief in in the value of of Bitcoin versus uh versus fiat and and the the purchasing power of Bitcoin over time uh being consistently up and to the right and and the purchasing power of of fiat over time consistently uh being down and to the left, if you

will. [laughter] Is this let's let's talk about something more recent where you know the last month the only headline that there is is everything that's going on in the Middle East and we've covered that extensively on the show. We've talked about oil and macro and everything else. Is this are you surprised at crypto's almost like lack of movement during this time? Not that we're in a short time frame, right? to be fair, but it's something where it's like we haven't really moved in any direction uh despite the rest of the market being so shaky and commodities doing things that they have never done before. Yet, the the highest risk asset seems the most stable.

>> Yeah. Look, I we all would have hoped to see Bitcoin trade more in line with with gold and commodities. Um, and really it's it's doing what we don't love to see, which is it it's trading in line with with uh riskier kind of tech stocks. It's a pattern that we've seen consistently over the last number of years. Eventually, I do believe that pattern will will break and it will start to trade more like a commodity. It's just it's unfortunately it's not there yet. It's not doing what I would have predicted it would do. And I mean, that's that's kind of the thing about Bitcoin. it really never does exactly what you think it's going to do, which is why it's it's generally a very good idea to just take your position and

hold. Um because it's so difficult to predict. >> Do you feel like a lot of people have gotten shaken out in the last 6 months? >> Look, I think I don't think the uh the dust has fully settled from 1010. I think I think that shook up a a lot of markets, a lot of traders, a lot of uh a lot of retail. there was a lot of leverage in that in that shakeout. So yeah, no, I think that I think the dust is is very much still settling and uh this happens. This is this is something that we've seen time and time again in the space. I think it it happened to uh coincide with the turning of the cycle.

Um it just kind of hit that that October surprise window almost perfectly. um which is purely a coincidence, but here we are. [laughter] >> It's funny that's that's the magic of the four-year cycle narrative is that it seems it seems like a welltimed coincidence so far. Um I want to I want to switch to something else and just kind of back to the value of Bitcoin um as clearly somebody who's like such a strong advocate there. How do you value something like Bitcoin versus gold? >> You can hold gold. Sure. But how easy is it to trade gold bars? like it it's it's really it's really not. Um ultimately most of most of what we transact in is digital. Bitcoin just happens to be

truly digitally native. It's the it's the only asset that is that is truly decentralized. Uh and and is completely finite. So yes, it's a superior um commodity to gold. [clears throat] >> Were you surprised? I mean another thing that happened too that coincided with our massive pullback in crypto was the massive rise in gold right and now it's seen its own its own um incredible one day one or two day uh price change let's say the surprise of many so it finally it finally coming back to some level of reality um but was that how do you perceive something like that where it's like we saw this decoupling right around 1010 where it's like man bitcoin just

kept ripping and and or or gold kept ripping And Bitcoin kept dying. >> Yeah. In fact, gold had more volatility over over that period than Bitcoin, which I don't think we had ever seen before. And it, look, it all it all goes back to to macro. I mean, you you touched on on what's been happening in the middle Middle East, and we could talk about oil over the over the last number of weeks. Um, so I think about them differently. I have I do have exposure to to gold in part in my PA, not anywhere near the exposure that I have to Bitcoin though.

>> Oh wow. Oh wow. Secret reveal. Don't tell don't tell the people at Reserve One about that. They don't want to know. They don't they they can't find out. You got gold bars in the buried it somewhere. [laughter] >> What's I mean so so here's a question for you. Somebody with a tech background. Um and and I'm assuming you have you had a tech background prior to a cryptote background. What what made you kind of make the leap? >> Well, yeah. I've been in I've been in traditional tech since uh since 2000. I started my career at IBM and I've been in and around the data center space for much of much of my career and really that's kind of where I started with the transition into digital assets when I took over HUD 8 in 2020 um which is a publicly traded uh Bitcoin mining

company and a Bitcoin mine ultimately is still a data center. Uh there are a lot of principles about how you operate a Bitcoin mine that are very different from how you operate a traditional data center. Um, but that that infrastructure was really my entry point into the space and I I've never looked back. It's I love being I love being in this world. I went down the the Bitcoin blockchain rabbit hole in in 2017 2018 when I was running a a traditional data center company and actually trying to figure out um how to bring some of these workloads into the traditional data center environment um which is very difficult to do. Um, but it's it's it's the world that I've been in really since

for almost a decade now. Um, and the just the the pace of innovation, the pace of change, the creativity, the the people that work in this space, the passion in this space, there really truly is nothing like it and it's a it's a privilege uh to to have a career here. >> Is there anything that hasn't moved as quickly as you would have hoped when you started your journey in crypto? >> Uh, no. I I wouldn't say so. I mean, look, we've been talking about the when the institutions would come. Uh, and I think broadly they came they came faster than than I expected them to. I mean, traditional banks are are notoriously

kind of very very slow and yet we've seen just really significant adoption over the last couple of years. Massive massive success on on the ETF launches. Um I think reg the regulatory environment has moved incredibly quickly certainly um in the last couple of years in particular in the United States um but elsewhere globally. So I I would say in general it's moved faster than I would have expected coming from a traditional tech and and and more traditional finance background. I think one of the things that's been really exciting about the last couple of years are companies that are really making an impact solving real world problems on chain where what we're seeing with some

of the tokenization efforts uh securitize um just had a big announcement earlier this week with with the NYSI uh I think I think the work that that uh that figure has done bringing home equity lines of credit on chain and solving a really unique world real world problem uh is is really fascinating. I think that's what we're going to see over the next number of years are these really uh exciting use cases. There was a lot of talk years ago about you know crypto was look trying to solve a problem that didn't exist and and now I think what's really exciting is we're seeing uh the technology solve problems that really do exist and uh and it's making an impact impact uh for the better. How much how

much how important is is something like clarity passing to the space? >> Look, I think it's really important. It's really important that we that we get something kind of codified around how we can see more capital come to the space, more innovation come to the space, more products that uh that really doesn't happen without that last leg of regulatory clarity that frankly we need from clarity. >> [clears throat] >> Do you think it passes this year? >> I do. I'm I'm an eternal optimist. So, uh I I think I think we're going to get it through before before summer recess.

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[music] Explore the Sharland Exchange at milk.com/sharland. [laughter] How how how much do you think things will change or I guess like how how much volatility should we expect in in crypto and I guess I guess across the market too but mainly in crypto um leading up to the midterms because I think I think once this this kind of phase geopolitical phase hopefully is over in some way that's the next big thing that's coming up right is that it's like listen you've had a very crypto positive administration and it's been good but you know the midterms could wildly swing it back. Not that there would be an immediate change on policy, but and that's another reason for Clare to get to get through that it's like, hey, it

might not ever get through if it doesn't happen before that. How how how much how how important will those midterms be and how much how much action in the market should we expect before that? >> Look, as I say, we really need it done before summer recess. So, we need it done by the end of May. Um, that's that's my perspective. in a in a more long-term positive way. We have we have great leadership uh through throughout the government right now. We've got the CFTC and the SEC working in collaboration, super knowledgeable on our industry, really pragmatic in in how they're working together and how they're thinking about it. Uh and that's really true as we look AC across the landscape

at at the the key regulators. We've got we've got really really good people in positions of power that are looking at this in the right way. So I think I think even if we don't get clarity through, we've got a lot of great people in the right positions to to uh to guide us regardless of what happens at the midterms. >> I want to I want to kind of swing back. Thank you for the answer. Um I want to swing back to what you're saying about RWAs and you mentioned figure and and we've had the co figure as well on our show to discuss that and and we've done a few episodes on on different RWAs. Another theme that we touch on though is stable coins. Um, which is obviously they work together, but it's stable coins is is a whole other bag of tricks.

Uh, basically just advancing digital digital payments. If you had to kind of like pick a horse in terms of like what can push forward quicker and have a [clears throat] larger impact in Trapfi, which would it be out of those two? >> I'm much more excited about about tokenization and and what where we can go with real world assets. stable coin I see more as the plumbing which is just less exciting for me. I I like the solution side of things and I think I think for me it's just I'm I'm more excited about where we're going with tokenization and the problems that we can solve.

>> If I if I may ask you and I I hope I'm allowed to ask this while you guys are kind of in a in a transition period here. Um we've we've talked about Bitcoin Jamie as somebody with an extensive history here. You've seen uh you've seen crypto go from a handful of tokens to thousands, hundreds of thousands of tokens, a lot of them meaningless. What what how do you see Bitcoin versus kind of the rest of the field? How do you visualize that when you're when not and it doesn't have to be in the Reserve One context, but just in your expert opinion like like how do those all fit together in in the future of the industry?

>> Well, yeah, look, not all tokens are created equally. That's for sure. Bitcoin very much stands apart and I think alone when you think about a long-term store of value. We touched on some of the properties of Bitcoin earlier, but ultimately proof of work is is a critical differentiator to Bitcoin versus um most of the other tokens out there. Memecoins had had a really fun run in in 2024. They don't have a lot of utility, but they're they're fun to build communities around. And I mean, I never thought I would I would uh be trading meme coins, yet I did. Um, and I know I know I I wasn't doing it because

I thought they were going to they weren't taking attention away from from Bitcoin. They're not they weren't solving the same the same reason that I have uh I have Bitcoin as part of my investment. I wouldn't consider memecoins investment um opportunities, but they are they are fun ways to to participate in community depending on what on what they are. And so I think I think ultimately for the next generation, I've got two teenage daughters and they're fully digitally native. They grew up playing Roblox and spending Robux and they very much understand digitally native currency and and the value of of how they um how they

navigate in that world which is only going to accelerate obviously with um with everything happening in AI and and Aentic. So I think I think there's there's lots of room for lots of different digitally native assets. I just I think Bitcoin is the only one um that has the long-term store of value properties which is entirely unique from the utility or the promise of all of the other assets out there. >> Mhm. Did you tell your daughters that you were trading meme coins?

>> They [laughter] know. They know. >> Uh they know. Yes. >> Did they advise you? Did they advise you and be like, "Yes, this is this is a Tik Tok meme. Mom, get this." >> Uh no. They they didn't have any any suggestions for me. Although I'm I'm sure that's not too far off. >> Is that something that they want to do now or is it or is like me are memecoins now like a is like a boomer thing for them? Like nah, mom's doing it. It's not cool. Like we'll do something else. >> I don't think meme coins are cool right now. They've they certainly they kind of had their moment in 2024. I don't think I don't think that's true any longer.

Will they come back? I don't know. But I just I think that's that's what's so fun about this space. Remember crypto dickbutts? That was that was in the what cycle was that? 2021. >> That was like towards the end of the NFT cycle. Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. There. And look, there's there's there's lots of things that uh that you can get from this industry. Entertainment is certainly is certainly a part of it. >> I can't believe that I'm talking to somebody that I didn't realize was such a DJ. Listen, I started this is this is this is where DJ I started.

>> You sound this you're way more DJ than most of our guests. This is even that the references you're making. I feel that's just surface, too. I feel like so you know so much more about this stuff than you're letting on, too. I feel like >> I don't know. You know what? You live in this world. You you get to know so many different founders and and fascinating people. And look, I I like to be a supporter of the ecosystem. >> Wow. Who knows? Maybe there'll be a DAT for crypto dickbutts uh in the future for coin or something. Yeah. [laughter] >> You never >> You never know. >> You never know. Oh wow. That would be uh I think you know what I'm sure somebody came up with that at some point. Yeah, I feel like in the NFT days we had there's definitely some some version of DATs uh

that have all uh not worked out let's say because NFTTS were not uh as long-term let's say as as some of the assets that that you guys and the other DATs are into. Um I want to ask you >> think about think about NFTTS like in that the NFT craze where they didn't have real utility. Um, obviously that was that was a a bit of a hype cycle, but the long-term promise of NFTTS with with real utility and their ability to solve real world problems, I think is fascinating and we're going to we're going to see that come back around.

>> It's just that that cycle lacked the utility factor, but I think the next cycle when we talk about tokenization, NFTs are going to are going to have a role to play for sure. >> Do you think NFTs are a dirty word though? Not to not to recycle me narratives from a couple years ago, but I feel like you talk you say to anybody walking down the street and they're like, >> "We'll call them something else. [laughter] We'll rebrand it." >> Oh, we tried that. I think I think some of the sports stuff tried that and it's still uh been hard to take off. But I like this. I like I like What else Jamie? Is there What other kind of weird DG stuff are you into these days? Is there anything else like you you spend your nights kind of seeking on the internet? Like secretly trading oil

futures on Hyperlid? Like what else what else what else are you into these days? Look, there Hyperlid is fascinating. Obviously, they got a bit of a raw deal on 1010, but I think yeah, I'm very excited to to keep watching that space. I think I think Canton's another interesting uh area to watch. Obviously, it's got some big institutional support. Um I think I think that's something to pay attention to. There's a lot of really interesting stuff out there. >> Yeah, I like that. I like I like I like I like where your mind's at. I feel like we could do a whole other show about the stuff that that Jamie likes behind the scenes. Maybe as an anon guest as well.

Um Jamie, I guess kind I I want to wrap this up soon, but I think um one of the one of the questions I was really keen to ask you um is where do you see where do you see all of this in like 10 years? Because I think one of the things that we struggle to do on the show is is zoom out properly, right? And I think I like having people like you on who, you know, you're building longterm. You're, you know, the stuff you're doing doesn't matter what's happening price-wise, dayto-day, week to week. Um, and also, I like hearing that you're you're somebody who's been in the streets, right? Like you you you've been down there trading shitcoins and you you know what's you you know what's going on. You're not just you're not just heads down building your data. Like you you keep up with the

trends. So like where are we at in 10 years? Where does this where does this space evolve to? >> Yeah. I mean, look, ultimately what we're doing here is we're upgrading the entire financial system. Uh, and that's going to take that's going to take time. And it's it it really requires an overhaul. It's not something there's so much um legacy, technical debt, processes, kind of people, culture. There's there's so much that needs to change to get to the promise of of a new, better, more inclusive, faster um decentralized financial system. I don't think we're going to be there in 10

years. I think we're still going to be on this journey. Uh but I think more real world problems are going to have been solved within the next 10 years. And frankly, like thinking back to me getting into the space in in 2017, it's almost been 10 years and I can't believe the rate the rate of change and what we've seen built over over that period of time, which I think is only going to accelerate. I think AI helps with that acceleration. Uh but ultimately, we're talking about really really large complex institutions that can't can't change overnight. And I think it's going to be kind of one problem at a time over the next couple of decades until we ultimately are in a place that looks

like something very very different from where we started. >> How much uh are you worried about quantum at all? >> So I've been in in tech now for 26 years and I think almost the entire 26 years quantum has been 10 years away. Um and I [laughter] think I think it's probably still 10 years away. So quantum isn't something that keeps me up at night. I love obviously the promise of of what can be done with quantum is super exciting. Um but I it's not it's not uh it's not on my list of things I worry about right now.

>> Okay. Doesn't keep you up at night. Is AI something that you guys you guys think about as as being a place to invest on the crypto side or to uh pay attention to? Like how do you kind of visualize that at this point in time? Obviously that's the other that's the other big story of the economy as well. We are having so much fun playing with uh different AI tools and processes right now. Uh yes, absolutely. It's an it's an area that we're paying very close attention to. Obviously, um in the Bitcoin mining world, which is where I came from um at HUD 8, we we started pivoting into traditional data centers and and AI workloads back in 22 or 23.

And now you've seen broadly the the Bitcoin mining uh community as a whole of the publicly traded now making that pivot um into traditional data centers and and AI workloads. I'm uh lucky to sit on the board of Riot um who's who's active in in that transition. So AI is kind of everywhere in our world in one way or another, but the the promise of the technology as far as just advancing what we do day in and day out and you know how much smarter and faster it's making us all is is absolutely wild.

>> Right on. Is it something that you're like on the crypto side? Have you looked at any of the uh like token standards that have been created? Are you looking at any like bit tensor or anything like that? anything that that you think can can kind of come together or looking at agentic commerce, any of that stuff? >> Yeah, but not I haven't I haven't gone deep. We've started to to peel back bit tensor. There's a lot of there's a lot of people in the space that are super excited about the about what they're doing over there, but I haven't done a ton of work yet. I'm more I've I've spent more time just playing with it. >> Right on. Yeah. Well, that's that's something I would expect from you.

You're clearly clearly tuned into that kind of stuff that's going on. >> Um getting my hands dirty and then I figure out how I want to play it. [laughter] >> I like that. Yeah, I like that a lot. [gasps] Right on. Okay. Well, Jamie, I mean, this has been a great chat. Uh, great to great to meet a fellow secret DGEN. Um, and keen keen to keep an eye on Reserve One. Best of luck with with everything that's going on. Um, and we'll uh we'll keep an eye on uh on the stuff you guys are doing. [music] >> Amazing. Thanks so much for having me. >> Want insights on what's moving crypto markets and how we're trading each event? Subscribe to our channel and join the Milkro Daily [music] and Pro newsletters and start investing like the top 1%. This show is for educational purposes only. Nothing we say is

financial advice. Investing is risky. Never invest more than you can afford to lose.