A conversation with U.S. Congressman Patrick McHenry

Transcript

[Music] thank you first off thank you guys very much for uh sitting through an entire day of policy and Regulatory stuff I know um we we try to keep it as fun as we possibly can but it can be somewhat dry um I am thrilled to introduce our next speaker chairman Patrick McHenry uh chairman McHenry is the chairman of the financial services committee he has been in Congress since 2005 I believe it's his ninth term 10th term almost almost 20 years in the Congress when he was first elected he was the youngest member of Congress at 29 years old

um and before he took over as chairman of the financial services committee he was the chief Deputy Whip for the house Republican conference which is one of the most senior leadership positions but above all his um his proudest moment of his entire career is uh being my former boss so with that one of the best people we have in Congress chairman Patrick McHenry thanks um uh well thank you Kyle thanks for the great introduction thank you all for giving me a moment to talk to you I'm sorry you have to deal with Colin I say that with all due respect um that column was my Deputy staff director trusted advisor and uh sorry to lose them but my loss is uh actually

kryptos gain frankly but thank you I want to give you context for what's happening in Washington that video tells really all that you need to know about how regulatory Clarity of the most important agency uh for crypto and his his unwillingness to answer a very simple question that is a self-evident question to everyone in the space and to him he already knows the answer and he's not willing to say it and I know that because I talked to him in private and the what he says in private versus what he's willing to testify and say in public is different which makes me want to lose my mind uh all right so but the context of Washington now the work that

is to come and the reason for that so let's just most of what you see out of Washington is just the tip of the iceberg it doesn't actually speak to what is happening so you're going to see a lot of debate in the next month about the debt ceiling whether or not the dead ceiling is going to be increased or not increased and what that means and everything else that's just the tip of the iceberg most of the work if Congress happens in a very quiet way not well covered by the Press not in the media and it is not some largely um uh clashing uh partisan moment a lot of policy happens and a lot of policy work happens in Congress on a daily basis and

over time you can build consensus you can build out policy you can build out legislation you can pass legislation into law so what you're getting by watching the media is just the tip of the iceberg it doesn't speak to the sum and substance of what happens on a weekly basis in Congress or with the regulators so what is happening now in my committee we're working on two major pieces of legislation that affect the world of digital assets one is a federal framework for uh stable coins right now New York Department of Financial Services is the only Federal is the only financial regulator that has a regime for the things called stable coins a sable coin is a payment regime and it should be viewed in that light at

the federal level and we're going to have federal law we're gonna have a bill that we've worked down for the last 13 months 14 months in Congress uh that we will produce out of committee uh in the next two months and it'll give a federal regulatory regime for payment stable coins it's a lot like the New York model because New York model is a very good indicator of how you can actually have safety and soundness a safe asset that is a means of payment and an exchange of value that's one two at the federal level we have to provide two important things one is Clarity on the treatment of digital assets you have the Commodities regime with a cftc you have the security regime with the SEC

there are two different sets of Market structures as you all know they function differently the attributes of what is the commodity and the security are different and there's a proof out of one regime in the other but you firmly find yourself into one regime or the other and there it's like Hotel California once you check in you can never leave um so we have to bring the clarity of what is a commodity and what is the security to the world of digital assets and we have to have approve out of the Securities regime by which you raise Capital which is traditional to the Securities regime we have a very smart set of regulations long-standing that Congress upstates from time to time and

secures The Exchange Commission updates from time to time on how you raise money you all are very Savvy and very familiar uh with that we then have to have that moment by which you raise for a digital asset and that it can prove its way out to be a commodity or Security based off the attributes of that Network it is distinct from a business startup that that is uh is an ongoing Enterprise that is controlled by a narrow few that fits narrowly into the how we test that that proves your security so we have to have approve out of that regime based off the attributes of uh of

of the underlying blockchain technology and that the asset that is creating so we have to do that in law Clarity of digital assets how can you hold it who can hold it you have an accounting regulation by the Securities Exchange Commission today that says basically you can't hold these assets on your books without taking a large provision of capital to hold hold the asset and without a reasonable asset allocation of of capital to protect that asset it becomes an uneconomic business Initiative for the banks or traditional holders of assets so they've been pushed out of the marketplace by regulation so we have to fix that regulation we have

to have approve out from the Securities regime to the Commodities regime and a number of other factors that need to be remedied like the debanking of of crypto and crypto related companies it's my intention to move legislation on those initial on those issues we're going to move legislation before the 4th of July which is pretty fast for congress pretty slow for the work that you do but pretty fast for Congress and we're going to move a a market structure bill that deals with Securities and commodities in Congress though the complicating factor is the cftc is regulated by the AG committee agriculture committee and the SEC is regulated by my committee the financial services committee so we have

to have a joint set of policy which means we have to cut a deal with each other like with my committee and the chair of the AG committee we've got a deal we have a set of principles by which we're operating and we're writing policy to those principles around how how digital assets should be reasonably treated in our regime here in the United States the pressure point for us is real though the pressure point on the industry is real the competition internationally is real United States has always been a front and center and the leader in the deployment of new technology we're the best place to raise Capital deploy Capital this is the reason why everyone in the world wants to be in the United

States normally but the rest of the world has an opportunity around crypto because we've got our heads stuck in the sand and our Regulators in Washington have their heads stuck in the sand and we're behind now when it comes to digital assets and The Regulators are taking an active decision to say digital assets are not here to stay we can kill it in the in the cradle and not let it grow well it's going to happen and it's going to happen regardless of whether or not the United States is a leader or a follower and if we're a leader it can have a rule of law speech rights embedded in it like we had with web one we can now have with web 3.

so it's my duty and the help that I need from you to make sure we move policy policy in Washington so that we can have this technology happen here and you don't have to make tough tough choices for your companies on where you're going to be headquartered in employee head counts where you're going to be where you seek to be regulated and where you seek to to innovate we want it here in the United States and we want you to be the key folks that draw in Talent globally and use cases globally that we can then export so we've got a lot of pressure in the short term because the regulator's in the wrong space the world is catching up and innovators

want to innovate and put dollars and ideas at risk and in the marketplace so that's the that's the push for me as a policy maker and the reason why I'm here is you need to understand the implications for you of the uncertainty of these regulators and you need to know that you have a role in how you can advocate for this new technology and you have a voice in this process because we have an open Society we have elections and we have elected officials that need to listen to their constituents so you need to connect with them and that's my ask today which is give me feedback I'd love to hear your questions

we've got plenty of time for that number one number two know that you do have a say and a power in this debate both in the short term and in the long term and three with the mechanisms that Collins talked about in Washington you have a way to do this effectively and at the same time still focus on your primary job of innovating and delivering so thank you for your time why don't we stop there all right you have no slide deck for me you're welcome

what's on your mind tell me uh if you ask a question I hope you will your name what you're doing um and then uh your question come on it's you got to practice this stuff anyway right hey my name is Ellie I am building Bellow we're an analytics platform for creators in web3 you talked about ethereum Bitcoin being Securities are not being secured each other could you provide more clarity into cryptocurrencies that exist today that would be considered a security or if you've seen them in like sort of where does that line get drawn um

so it's not my interest to answer your question uh you heard you heard what I'm arguing against and a guy who's unwilling to say what is a uh what is a commodity because he's that at the series Exchange Commission I'm not I'm not giving you Firepower to get in an argument with them um but what I will say is this if you meet uh the four prongs of Howie and Reeves you're firmly in security and if you're pretending that you can fake uh your way into out of the Securities regime you can't do it you can um so when you go through the measurement of this and you think well this is

firmly a small group of us that will control this network uh sorry you're not going to be proven out that is not a decentralized anything and the idea that you can still have some uh some significant control over this means that you're actually in control of it um so I mean that that to me is the key proof out if it's a narrow group of folks that still have broad impact on the whole network you're not decentralized okay you're a pretender to it you're kind of like Sam bankman freed using QuickBooks and pretending like he's a innovator yeah I definitely agree with that and I guess I'm curious like with the legislation that's being passed um

you know the goal is to provide more clarity a lot of us working in this industry like that's what we want we're not against following rules we just want to know what the rules are um and I think part of that will potentially be sussing out Bad actors like the Sam bakeries or whoever else uh like I guess where where do you see the effect on the industry it both positively and negatively as these bills come out uh well it'll be a ShakeOut because you'll either clearly be a decentralized something or you won't and so you have a lot of folks that have um I mean if you at his point there are ten thousand you know they're 10 000 coins blah blah blah blah well majority of those um are not a majority they're a

substantial number of those that are Bad actors with malicious intent and they're trying to defraud people that's not the whole industry it's side um this is the reason why this is so important because it's a proof out that you're real that you're of substance and you're real um but once we have regulatory Clarity you're going to have a ShakeOut and you'll have a ShakeOut based off of the final application of our law and that will be long-term good short-term painful because it will provide Stark Clarity you either are or you're not yeah that makes a lot of sense thank you yeah thank you

hello thank you for being here today uh my name is will mctai and I'm building a product of marketing Analytics tool for defy um so my question is why do you think the SEC is really so hostile uh towards uh crypto right now is it because of the the SPF news and like the reported relationship with the Dems or something like that uh there are a couple things first of all um Senator Elizabeth Warren has a very fixed View uh on crypto do you know why uh I it's so confusing to me her career was focused on um on pushing back on the big bank's

control of the financial system of banking um and then she pivoted to hating crypto which is you know the this is the answer to your problem right clearly um the um but she has a very fixed view on this and does not see the the potential underlying the underlying current here is a anti-tech bias an anti-innovation bias and it goes right back to uh when folks came from the countryside to break the Looms that were taking people's jobs

it's an anti-technology View uh that's at the heart of that now that's not where all the the progressive left the members of the House and Senate are there are in fact some that are completely get the use case completely see the potential and how it links up with their world view um which the beautiful thing here is whatever your world view is you can see it through being able to control your financial future and the way you interact with the with the internet and unleashing value uh in the world of you know of of information the bias here though is driven by some loud voices in the Progressive left and Senator Warren has

a very strong choke holds on nominations to financial regulators and Gary Gensler listens to her more than any other Senator and is much more uh doing her handiwork at the agency rather than having an independent agenda thank you it's very helpful thanks and the second part is they should find themselves quite embarrassed by their relationship with Sam bankman freed and FTX and they were doing they were set up to do some of his bidding and that because of his deep connectivity with uh with with some Democratic elected officials and that is then embarrassed them into this position further

and you mentioned at the end that we can Advocate like how yeah how can we advocate so where are you from uh I'm from the UK not helpful to this conversation but I I live in California okay um do you have a you have two members of the Senate one member of the House you need to have connectivity with them um the issue here is that um uh you know I lost my girlfriend to vote Yes where is she from America but more specifically uh she uh we live in San Francisco but she is from New York okay um okay give it's an internet

do you need us to move somewhere or no my point is like where are you from that's where you're from so who's from give me a state that's neither Great Britain anybody uh anybody not from California Minnesota whereabouts Arizona that's different than Minnesota you said Minnesota Minneapolis who's that yes reach out to her connect with her okay so and where are you from yes where oh Scott's down Scottsdale all right I think Dave Schweikert is your Congressman I think connection there right

so go back to those connectivities and have a relationship with them you have expertise you can bring expertise to policy makers they're either interested or not interested in hearing from experts and if they're not interested you can replace them and if they are you can engage with them engage with them so that Outreach that connectivity regardless of where you're from but where you are make sure you have those connectivities with your members of the House and Senate thank you thanks thank you chairman my name is Marat I'm Bill I'm the founder of primev we're building very low level infra that makes blockchains operate more efficiently essentially um I want to highlight two problems as

an entrepreneur in this space that I continuously add it's my second startup in the space my third business overall um and I want to kind of see how you're addressing it maybe in your legislation or how you're thinking about it one is with stable coins in terms of um the Fiat on and off ramp so basically you know getting on chain and off chain in terms of even US Dollars the fact that there's such a huge wall between that and when we think about you know there isn't there aren't that many walls between Banks it's just dollars moving when you send it from A banks to PayPal's Ledger or venmo something like that it's fairly seamless but for some reason the minute it goes on Shane and yes there's some reasons for it it gets incredibly difficult and there's a huge kind of wall in between and that creates

these kind of isolated um you know environments where prices and other things there's lots of more derivatives on the other side because of this and prices move you know it essentially adds risk and and you know uncertainty to the system on the one side because that process is not efficient and yes we can have kyc and other things in between but making that process more efficient or at least more seamless would lead to a lot of stability on the other side that would help all of us over here and people creating businesses so one is that concept and the other is just banking as as just someone paying their vendors you know we're not buying crypto or betting on on anything but just as a crypto company that has you know multiple bank accounts multiple institutions at this

point it's just incredibly difficult this morning I had to pay a vendor who accepts um you know money in stable coins and I had to really think oh should I really do this for my like our JPMorgan account because they might flag us for some reason and I'd rather not do that or deal with that so having that level of anxiety is also a huge problem so I just wanted to ask your opinion how you're thinking about these two problems in in the just let me start with that so operation choke point two two 2.0 is real you have banks that are unwilling to create new business lines even though they see that there's a need because of regulators and The Regulators are saying not no they're saying I'm going to have a lot of questions and you have a lot of work to do on an ongoing

basis about all your relationships which means it's an added expense to start a new business line and an added expense you can't appropriately measure so that's the reason why you see Banks not opening up new relationships one two you have existing banks that are dealing with those same regulatory pressures but they have existing relationships they're willing to keep and they're trying to keep but they have pressures from their Regulators on asking about every transaction um so until Congress acts you're going to see this type of action and they're trying to choke off the industry and they have this view that

they they can still choke off the digital assets industry and everybody innovating in the space um which I think is absurd completely absurd it is counter to history and it's counter to technology deployment but that's where this Administration is and these Regulators um we're trying to remedy that by acting and acting in a bipartisan way in Congress and changing the law so they can't do that and bringing Clarity to the space generally that's one two uh our existing stablecoin regime is clunky uh there's not real competition in the space

um and so we need to enhance this by having a federal option for a regulatory pathway and we need to have this option firmly in a payments regime and firmly in a payments regime takes it out of in essence a Current financial product sitting alongside a Current financial products so this is an effectively a paired trade if you think in a Securities regime or Commodities regime and by doing it that way it makes it clunkier uh much more friction in that if we if we put it in a payments regime they can smooth out some of these subjects and clarify the regulation to make it less clunky

but then we need a bunch of technologists in there to actually make it much more seamless and less clunky and the only way to do that is to draw more Capital more Talent more opportunity than we currently have which means we need Clarity we get clarity then this stuff will go I think yeah we'll make those parts happen thank you so much I really appreciate your input then thank you chairman for for being here my name is Jay we are building Ethan ID we're trying to make web 3 so easy your mom can use it uh so uh my question is for um one of my colleagues of innovators in this room are there particular lines of messaging that your colleagues have found persuasive uh when talking about this topic uh I actually I'm I'm from

Miami Florida uh and and I just reach out to my uh Congress people uh that are my Representatives but I'm curious if they're different um what kind of messaging would be most effective um well first it's here to stay right digital assets are here to stay you have uh you have tens of thousands of people working in this space globally and most of those are now overseas because they have regulatory clarity Europe has regulatory Clarity before the United States does that's a major message here to stay a lot of people a lot of investment dollars and now it's disproportionately overseas because the US doesn't have a regulatory regime

the Europeans are ahead of us I think those are key message points to deliver to policy makers and what you want is effective clear law so you can innovate and consumers can be protected I I think that that's that's the full message the final thing is policy makers young and olds I think generally in society we want to be thought of as knowing technology and not being cro-maggans right we want to be we want to be we want to think of ourselves as an advanced in using like our frontal lobe right and when when you hear people that are anti-technology you then question their world view

people don't want to be considered as out of this Century like not up to date especially those that are not up to date and not of the center so don't forget that as the backdrop of of a lot of people a lot of people's thinking that are anti-crypto they just don't like technology or not willing to invest a little time to understand it so jobs investment and staying up to date thank you thank you thank you so much that we've been learning a lot and really appreciate what you're doing for the whole Space it's extremely important um Nikita I'm with chain Patrol we stop uh phishing attacks and scams from stealing users funds uh in the crypto space

um my question for you is uh you know with some like Bitcoin uh there's a possibility where like if the adoption keeps increasing it might become the dominant currency in the in the world in general um let's say that scenario happens I don't know if the you know with other policy makers and uh people on your team have you modeled such a potential scenario and like how does that affect you know right now The Government Can roughly con work with things like inflation and other things like they control the the supply of money um has there been any kind of like experiments around what does the future look like if um that isn't controlled by like I don't

know the the essential Banks or something that's like that um we haven't fully modeled that out no um and central banks are unwilling to model that out right um because it's beyond their capacity to think about it frankly and so but stepping back there's this there's this there's this Global move to get away from dollars uh China has an interest there Russia certainly has an interest there since their invasion in Ukraine uh and so they're trying to push their the world we have a lot of different people around the globe a lot of nation states are

trying to de-dollarize that's been a movement that pops up from time to time but our rapid rise in rates is one uh is a is a motivator our sanctions regime is another motivator uh and those both both those things have been heightened in the last year it because of real action um they're trying to look for some viable other alternative there is no other viable alternative with the largest debt in the world and we have the most Global exchange of goods and services of any other country in the world it's very difficult to avoid the US dollar if we get a regulatory regime up up to

to par and it's competitive we can draw people here into the United States to deploy these this asset class which then becomes an alternative to Alternatives around the world that's the US dollar in the short run over the next 20 30 years I don't see the world going primarily off the US dollar we might be a lower percentage of the mix there's a lot of debate about that but if we engage in global Commerce and we still have the largest debt in the world which we're likely to have over the next 20 30 years it's going to be difficult to avoid the US dollar there's no other safe there's no other safe place to do it the alternative though

that people are seeking may find itself that alternative may be one of these l1s in in Bitcoin it seems to be the most viable option currently and early adoption gives them a huge Advance a huge Advance gives the asset this huge Advance reach so maybe perhaps Bitcoin is the alternative that people are looking for Alternatives the the folks that are look this is a terrible explanation sorry those that are seeing Alternatives may find that in Bitcoin over the next 20 30 years they're unlikely to de-dollarize fully in any respect right so I think

this might actually be helpful for the US um and for Dollar Diplomacy to have an uh another viable uh rule of law centered speech rights centered you know fully uh distributed asset that we all can verify like Bitcoin right so that that's how I think it it shakes out not as uh this being the the dominant Reserve currency globally thank you that's not an easy question but I appreciate it I really appreciate your answer thanks for letting me walk through that in front of everybody um thanks so much chairman um I'm nitya a building capsule um infrastructure to make it easier and

safer to sign transactions on chain um I wanted to ask about uh kind of the the reverse side of um as you mentioned like kind of going back and forth and there's been obviously changes um even right year to year and um in terms of a prognosis what can the space do in terms of uh like use cases around crypto like case studies kind of combating the headlines that we've kind of saw late last year um and are there any uh any kind of examples of that you see that um that would make your job easier so this is not a new asset class it's not it unlocks enormous potential that's locked up

in uneconomic ways um so for us to get out of this as a financial product I mean I've got to do my work in the financial services committee but when you're saying what's a new asset class they're like we'll just put in one of the two regimes it's Commodities of security come on get out of the way right well it's an investment of money okay well we know how to do that that's a scariest regime this is a new thing based off of a new technology technology frame that unlocks a variety of use cases the variety the lack of effective viable use cases at this stage of the game is the huge inhibitor for us to get more policy

makers to say yeah I got to get get on board with this but In fairness when we pass the Telecom Act of 1996 if I said well you know the results of this is in about 10 years you have a little box and you're gonna go and a car is going to show up and take you somewhere and they're going to say what kind of drugs are you on to me right so the use cases at the early generation the internet weren't fully baked nobody knew how to make money that first general like that first iteration when Congress is writing policy but to explain use cases and actually your use case is a very reasonable one

that people can understand that really helps policy makers grapple with this um and I'm trying to explain our policy details in that context it could lead to this it could lead to that it could lead to the other outside of financial transactions um that that moves policy makers I think more than just a financial transaction vehicle thank you so much thanks hey um thank you for your talk David from disco here I'm building in the social space trying to give users more Choice over what they see through open

algorithms I'm curious how you see the future and when you expect the industry might see more clarity from a regulation point of view um maybe like a percentage chance that you think the SEC will publicly State like if there is a commodity in the next two years uh Congress will do it because the SEC won't so okay my calendar for Action is we'll have a bill passed out of house committees by the Fourth of July and by the Fall we'll have a bill passed out of the House of Representatives uh that is a market structure Bill a definition of a digital asset

and a payment stable coin passed out of the House of Representatives by the end of the year I I give it a 45 chance of success that we have law that I I'm able to pass a market structure Bill and stable coin bill into law uh 45 chance um uh in my view is like is a really good chance because it's very difficult to legislate in Congress it's very difficult to get anything done so I am optimistic um the odds have been forced act have been far worse stacked against me for other policies I've carried through into

law this is the most important though to me so I want to get things done and I've got Democrats and Republicans that are working with me to get things done thank you thank you and when we do that that will provide the clarity uh for All Digital assets and in their regulatory regime not the obvious one that eth is a commodity ether is a commodity hi chairman thanks very much for being here today so I'm Nico we're building fully on trained games um I'm just a question follow-up question for The Ether writer commodity or security as you mentioned that if it's a commodity it will be under the agriculture committee so is that is that

a promising path that if it's categorized as a community well how are they thinking of it um so this is the quirky bit of so this is the quirky bed of our Regulators our financial Regulators are a complete mess in the United States right you go to every other regime around the world you go to One Financial regulator and they do everything they do banking they do Securities they do Commodities they maybe sell fruits and vegetables in the back I mean it's like they do everything right and you come to the United States and you're like wait wait we have three different bank Regulators nothing bad could happen with that um we have Securities and commodities and they don't talk to each other oh and then you have Commodities that are

regulated by the agriculture committee that's focus on farm products and commodities are much different things now than 100 100 years ago um so that's complicated the Commodities regime is purpose built for Clear products that are not run by an ongoing concern and don't need ongoing disclosures on the decisions that a neurofew are making so when you think of Bitcoin it's clearly a commodity no one like the reason why the Regulators have not gone after Bitcoin is go knock on Whose door

right go find Satoshi go ahead right a lot of theories about who's Satoshi but there's no door to knock on so they have to acknowledge that it is a what it is a commodity and likewise if there is no one maintaining that no Central person maintaining the network on an ongoing basis and is in control of that Network it is clearly uh not a security so we need to prove that out and get them into the the right kind of regime which is appropriate and purpose-built for the type of regulations that will enable Innovation to occur okay so I do think it's a right regime

for the things that are most clearly um most clearly commodities but we have a lot of a lot of folks in the space that will fall into this curious regime because they're still controlled by an arrow few and predominantly owned by a narrow few and don't actually have a proven ongoing concern uh of a fully functional Network and absent those qualities they're going to fall in the Securities regime so there's there's going to be Clarity here and until you free yourself and actually have a network that does not need to be maintained by a narrow few on a day-to-day basis and be controlled by that narrow few then you know uh you've got you've got to have your

regulatory burden yep thank you very much thanks uh hi chairman thanks so much for being here today I'm Brandon working on a protocol called share I think a lot of the um for me at least the distinction between uh Commodities versus security seems to stem from the language in the original paper around coins and tokens but from a technical perspective these are really just pieces of data on the internet that happen to be used as coins and tokens have there been thoughts around the case where maybe it's neither a commodity or a security but instead a credibly neutral infrastructure layer that actually combats the biggest problems that are happening today with monopolies in big Tech well so if if your key has that if your

key has a value if your keys have value that's a very difficult thing perceived value though right like my laptop has value to someone that's in the market for it but it's not a security or commodity let me step back Colin Colin we'll step back yes it was that we should have a third regulator for this space that is different from that go ahead Colin I wish you hadn't asked this question so you gotta go poke the bear here but I've got to acknowledge political reality and I gotta go put it with the agency that most fits there is certainly space here for things that are neither scares nor commodities

and there is certainly space here by which I can own things and put them in my pocket it's none of your business what's in my pocket exactly and we have to preserve that we have to preserve that right it's none of my business I don't know what I don't know if you have no dollars in your pocket or whatever doesn't matter it's none of my business I did have this discussion when we're negotiating last summer with government officials about wallets they said well we just need we need wallet regulation just like we have banking regulation right you have a bank account for safety purposes I'm like well what is a wallet exactly I said well I'm I'm sorry no no what is what is a wallet I don't understand what

a wallet is because my wallet could be a Notes app it could be a piece of paper in my pocket right it could just be in my head right but but they don't conceive of that and so you have to win fundamental fights for spaces for freedom in the middle of this regulatory frame and you're raising a really valid question that we have to make sure as provision for in law uh because there are things that are by which I may want to give you and you may want to give to me without an exchange of of of value so much as I want to give it to you you want to give

it to me we have to have provision for that right you can take shoes right we can sell shoes right now what's a reporting mechanism to the government there is no provision for that right so we have to have the same provision on the internet we have to have the same provision in digital assets we have to have the same provision whether it's uh me giving you five bucks on PayPal to pay for a coffee right there's stuff that should not be the government's concern here and it doesn't go to some larger societal problem and we have to make sure it's provision in law so thank you so much that was a setup Colin and I'm glad we ended with that because

um you can give you can give him a hard time yeah we'll talk about this offline sounds good it sounds like it might be an issue with the naming convention but thank you yeah um so uh we need a better name for for stable coins by the way um um uh thank you thank you for what you're doing uh thanks for what you're doing now that I get to use later uh it's pretty cool it's great to be with y'all and see the people that are making a huge difference uh I'm gonna go back and go to the salt mines and try to carve away whatever space I can so you can go innovate but thanks for what you all are doing and um uh honor honored to have a moment with you thanks so much

God bless [Music]