Community Call #14 w/ David Rugendyke

Transcript

oh he already sent me a um [Music] jumping in now okay [Music] [Music] 157

[Music] because he's promoting us and we're not [Music] i mean if you go to coin cash good dude [Music] [Music] so

[Music] so [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Music] hey everyone i am superfiz and this is

eaststaker community call 14 on december 14 2020. i am here with the east staker crew and dave rugendyk from rocket pool hey everybody yeah so um we'll get started today by doing some quick introductions and then we'll talk about what this call looks like and then we will hop right in so i'm super fizz i am an organizer for the eatstaker community you can find us at reddit.com or on our discord at invite dot gg slash east staker i also do what i like to call a kind of daily video

that i call the state of the state so um michael is with us um michael you got anything you'd like to say i know i'm just happy to be here and that's good enough that's the spirit nolan uh who you know as lamboshi he says hello everyone um i'm happy to be here worth halter is the brains behind the poep um that's the proof of attendance protocol and

everyone who attends this call through zoom today will receive a link from patricio worth halter you can click on that link and use the screen that pops that will be delivered to you on the x die network but you can learn you can view it at app.xyz or at ho app.gallery and you can transfer those co-apps from xdi to the main network for a fee if you choose to pay it and our guest today is dave regan dyke hey dave hey everyone how are you going thank you uh yeah the second one so yeah it's it's

good so before we start like i have to get something i i assume you know other people know i talk about rocket pool a lot like i i'm a fan of the product and i want to make it clear to everyone that i'm a fan of the product because of what they're doing not because i'm shilling to pump my bags and that's it's so important to make that distinction because i i realize that everyone in the cryptocurrency world is trying to make money and i i am with pure conscience talk thinking about love what you're doing

and really today i'd like to focus the the call i like to call pools like rocket pool um because i you know we want to be technology folk focused uh and so i i hope we can work in that direction today um but it's it's not going to change my my appreciation for the things you're creating um or many things but yeah we appreciate we've been around for a long time so um yeah hopefully a lot of people are aware of us by now um yeah and we we do appreciate obviously um the feedback that we get from the essay community are very much so i mean we get a lot of ass takers uh coming to

our school on a regular um regular basis and yeah we hop into you i just follow but um yeah we like this to our dungeon a little bit and we do venture out to uh reddit uh quite a bit as well uh i'm sorry can you ever have any questions about rockville technical or otherwise feel free to ping us in the discord or uh pin me on reddit and i'll i'll jump in as quick as we can answer away great um if you'd like i feel like most people are aware of of the core product um and if they're not there are a lot of resources a lot of calls um i watched the call that you did with chorus one that was posted about a week ago and i hope that we'll

we'll link that somewhere for people who haven't heard it so i'm not really asking you to um to provide an over uh an in-depth review but will you for people who are new kind of tell us where rocket pool is today yeah absolutely okay so we have a beta running on pyrmont uh testing at the moment so what we're based actually basically building the ability to have uh trustless uh withdrawals so this is something which is obviously very important for any any kind of facility where you combine people's ever together to kind of form that 32 f deposit um it's very important to have a trustless manner to do that uh currently

to date there is no trustless way to do this um so any any kind of um staking service bit pool otherwise they're kind of operating uh they will have custody to some degree or they're implementing some kind of aggregate vls signature which uh still has its issues as well and still requires uh trust so uh obviously for us we're kind of aiming towards building a decentralized staking protocol for for the f3 dollars to be built on committee oil community owned that the community will be able to run in the future in a trustless manner so building a protocol is a lot different from building a service where you know you can essentially own parts of that service you know you're seeking to kind of make some income and

so forth and that's that's perfectly fine i mean there's a lot of staking as a service providers currently um throughout the world and you'll get heaps of these on ethereum uh to some degree uh actually a lot of these guys can work within rocket pool if they want to and uh uh but that's that's another topic entirely um but yeah so basically what rock coil is kind of doing at the moment is we are building out uh the ability for trustless controls to happen once that's included in the ethereum uh specifications which is uh looking pretty good um danny ryan actually just put a pull request in for his uh contribution uh specifying a smart contract address on the ethereum one network to receive a withdrawal from the beacon chains

so this is on the connect service uh especially us i mean it won't just be used by us and be used by other services um uh hopefully um trustlessness to uh staking ethereum 2.0 which is isn't really doable at this current point in time so that's kind of where we're building out that direction at the moment we're hoping for this to kind of be included in this background q1 now it does it doesn't need to be built uh you know into the clients or in the at this point it doesn't need to wait till that to a hard fork occurs or anything like that it just needs to be in spec and once it's inspected we can actually build to that split we're good to go awesome thank you

um so eight for rocket pool what i think i might have logged out lagged out the impression that the big weight for rocket pool was that uh withdrawal to eth1 addresses are there other things um as in uh audits or any other development that needs to be worked out before or are you are you just sort of in a staging round no we're kind of doing two things in parallel at the moment so we're keeping an eye on this withdrawal mechanism because that's something we need to build once it's inspect the other thing we're building

out is the the tail end of our tokenomics at the moment which is basically uh incentivizations for uh basically participating in uh rockpool as a as a protocol essentially so um that's something we're just coming along really well that's that's we'll most likely be in the next couple of weeks and after that we're basically going to start sigma prime at the moment so for those of you who are wasting the prime is actually the team behind uh the light through inside and out to a massive degree and they are actually a security firm first and foremost before they actually start building this client and that they're still doing that obviously so

obviously having some that that kind of intimate knowledge of f2 um you know auditing your contracts as well as your your node software is just about as good as it's going to get so uh these guys and then we're going to concentrate on getting audits from consensus as well um probably shortly after that so we want to do multiple rounds of audits and this will actually affect our timeline as well because we can't launch in until that's done and you know any issues are rectified early on so uh yeah so that's obviously will uh impact you know whenever we launch as well so um we're pretty well with our token stuff at the moment it's it's um i don't think there's any other kind of staking pooling service that will be uh kind of offering this kind of

incentivization to to stake in in a community protocol so that's something that we're very conscious at the moment you know aiming to build that um as best as we can before we launch so uh that should be in the next couple of weeks then audits then hopefully uh maintenance exciting um so and i i i don't want to to steal the conversation i know that the other east acres have have questions um but i'd like to slip one more thing in um you know i gave the kind of warning yesterday that i think it was yesterday recently i you know i do these state of the state videos and i was i kind of got onto rocket pool and i was my train of thought was um you sh i was actually thinking about the

dao um 2017 daoh everyone piled in and everyone got you know pummeled when when audits are complete when rocket pool does go live is it is it going to be a open the floodgates approach or is it it will it be a measured release no it would be absolutely a measured release so now smart contracts anyone can kind of jump on and get github and check this out uh right now we've basically structured it so there'll be kind of a three the first phase is uh rockpool so ourselves basically in charge of any smart contract upgrades and basic settings um but this will basically then

transition into a period where it would be rockable and the dow who who have control over these these settings and then the third phase will always be us handing out full control to the dow once everything's running operational so that you know a timeline for that kind of period uh will definitely be probably six months yeah i mean we obviously need to make sure any kids are ironed out early on and full control will always be hinted at you know potentially six to nine months after a launch once things are working well and so forth because we also need to make sure you know that any chronic issues are ironed out early and we definitely don't want to let the flood gates open uh like they did with dow straightaway so measured release is definitely our aim at this point yeah okay very interesting um

so i will i'll be quiet just a minute and uh give you guys a chance because i know you've got your own questions i don't want to hog it so is the the dow what does the dow control okay so there is a couple of settings uh in rockport which do need human influence so a couple of settings which probably the first and foremost we get asked quite a bit is basically the commission rate for node operators minimum and maximum so we have uh we have a formula operates on a curve based on supply and demand for the rocketal network so i'll just kind of explain how this works quickly so let's say there's a lot of people depositing ever that needs to get assigned to node operators but there's not as many node operators coming to the table to meet that demand

then we obviously have a bigger demand than supply chain issue and the commission rate for node operators can then obviously change to favor node operators to incentivize them to join the network to stake this at so that's a very very quick uh explanation of that but so basically what we need there we need certain minimum and maximum so we we need a minimum commission that the node operators can get paid and we also need a maximum so let's say someone cut that big whale comes to rock pawn deposits ten thousand either and there's there's one tiny note operator uh already we can't have commission rates obviously spike up to you know like eighty ninety percent because then everyone would go you know no no no all the node operators were joined but no one would stay with they're ever with rocketpool because the rewards that

would be getting generated to users who who hold their rf token would be extremely diminished due to this high commission rate that's getting paid to note approach so there needs to be a sensible maximum which is based on current market dynamics like uh competitors uh and so forth and basically good commission and also the price of other because obviously if there's a huge commission right 10 000 u.s or something like that that's a massive commission so these kind of factors need to be weighed in to kind of have a human influence that can decide a sensible maxim and a sensible minimum that these node operators can get paid so for for our uh pmod tester that's kind of operating currently we have a minimum of two percent

commission rate for node operators and 20 as the maximum so this is just some we've kind of tested tested out and kind of seen how it's operating uh the last few months that we've been running betas uh those minimum maximums have worked out quite well but obviously you never know until you actually you know that's monopoly money on puma you never know until you actually have the real deal uh in place that that's probably two of the main things that the dow would be in charge of so there's place and rank for rpl so the rpl obviously we're changing to an inflationary model for rpl this will basically be uh given to node operators when they stake rpl on their node as well as you know their own other uh this rpl is used as cloud i don't think you'd be able to take the

more uh inflation they earn as a reward for kind of providing this insurance to the network that if something goes wrong the network won't lose any other and basically anyone holding rf also won't lose any value either so this is this kind of inflation rate is currently set at five percent uh the dow will be in charge of the changing that in a future date so obviously if um you know rpl moons or something uh you know they can reduce the inflation rate or if they want to cut it out entirely uh they they can do that uh in a future date as well it'll be up to the there so that's just a couple of small examples of kind of some under the dallas control we've got just a general question for

you david uh one of the sort of perceptions of rocketpool is that it's kind of the gold standard uh or or is making its way to be the gold standard for staking pool services because you guys take sort of the appropriate end user cautions uh making sure that you're not pushing product out too early like waiting for the withdrawal credential repo update is that from a business sense been difficult to say especially in a a computer science driven world where we're sort of used to wanting projects done yesterday to proactively be like let's just wait and and make sure this is done right yeah i mean that that is a really good question it is something we do

get um asked a bit and obviously obviously with f2 just launching uh there's a lot of fomo involved in that but um value by anyone's standards so um yeah obviously kind of communicating that to everyone we created a big medium article uh probably uh two three weeks ago basically stating uh why we're going to hold off um and the reasons for that and i mean as long as we can communicate it well i think it's okay to do with that but there is obviously still still pressure when people are saying you know yeah a lot of people just saying watch now launch now but um in the token price first the security of a long-term protocol which is kind of what we have in mind

so obviously you know bumping up the old price if we went live and that's where a lot of that does come from whereas we're kind of focusing on two to three years down the track making sure you know when phase two rolls around or phase 1.5 rolls around that this other can be sent back back to track where it can be you know rf holders can be traded in and i mean a lot a lot of people do kind of kind of have that focus because they're not they don't have to i mean we do because we're building the pro well that's two issues to kind of let people know our reasons for doing that uh and try to do that uh as effectively

as we can and keep people's uh funds safe so um but yeah i mean it it's really a communication thing and for us uh security is uh absolutely number one right yeah we we've had that as our prettier motto from day one can can i fault what is do you have an emergency shutdown or do you have a a safeguard for um things catching on fire yeah we've got a few uh switches we can flip so probably the first one would be disabling deposits obviously if anything went wrong we want to cut that off straight away you know there's a couple other ones where we can upgrade certain contracts to

um uh any issues very very quickly when the dow is in control this will obviously change a little bit because the dow will need to approve certain contract upgrade uh you know then you have multiple parties that need to kind of approve this based on audit reports so that that would be a bit slower so that's part of the reason why we have this three-phase rollout where rockpool will have power then it'll be rockford and the dow then will just be the doubt because if something goes wrong early on we can fix that very quickly so that's part of the reason why we're doing that kind of transitional rollout as well so yeah and answering that shot yeah we've got a bunch of things we can kind of push disable stuff and i'm going to hog one more um i said hog twice in this call sorry

we we say a word in common a couple times and it intrigues me i like to talk about the ethos of each staker and i i like to say that the ethos of east acre is to be welcoming first and knowledgeable second because you know we want to welcome people in and make them feel comfortable and then help them learn if we focus on knowledge then we end up overwhelming and running people off what what is if you were to just tell someone that that did more uh basically to be a community uh orange a decentralized protocol that doesn't really roll roll up the tongue super smooth but i mean if you're um if you're an

outsider that that would be a lot of strange words connected together uh but obviously if you're in the ethereum kind of state community um that would be um pretty much what we're aiming for i mean we we don't want to be uh that's all well we're putting a lot of effort into uh kind of step into it as decentralized and trust us very early on so that um it can be community owned in a you know a good year or two down the road and basically that that's the the primary thing for us is kind of uh conveying um that we want to hand this over to the community uh at some point in the future so yeah awesome interesting thank you so after you guys release um

is there going to be an easy way for people who may have already submitted say one deposit to import that key into their rocket pool mode and continue to stake on that but then also make further deposits to be a node operator later yeah that's that's a good question at this point i don't think that's going to be possible basically um because when you make a deposit through our smart node software it updates a bunch of things in smart contracts uh and so forth so at this point in time i'd probably say if you did start stacking uh outside of rocket pool and you wanted to import that validator into rapport at this point in time that probably would not be possible because

obviously we need the way rockpool operates is we take a 16 other from the node operator and 16 other from the network and that's combined together um to basically form a validated deposit so if you've already submitted 32 outside of rocketpoor um that 32 is yours and not half of it is the network so we could probably come up with with a way to import them in the future but i'd say probably at launch and shortly after launch i don't think that would be possible um basically just because of the technical things involved in it yeah okay all right um so when when who who has where is the validator key i

guess that's my question okay okay so well which one so the the testation key or the basically the withdrawals one so a test okay so that's with the node operator so that's part of the reason why we obviously we have a decentralized network we want redundancy throughout the network also have their own attestation keys so they're operating you know where they are and the well they're doing their attestations from there that's what makes it pleasant yeah they might take one or two validators with them but it won't affect the rest of the network and obviously with f2 the amount of validators that go down at once so um that's

uh kind of one of the reasons we keep that key with the node operator um the second one obviously is because the node operator has 16 either of of on on the line themselves so this battery makes them economically wanted to behave so if you're a node operating rocket pool you have 16 other of your own you have 16 other which is given to you from the network to to basically stake on the network's behalf and you earn a commission for doing that so you can actually um you know earn more staking rockcore than you would since this note operator has 16 out of themselves online that makes them economically bonded to behave because if they misbehave they're hurting themselves just as much as the network so uh rockpool is basically built on

economic incentives kind of the same way ethereum is basically built on economic incentives so um yeah so that's that's why we can keep that key with the node operator because we know that if they do try any shenanigans they're going to help hurt themselves uh uh probably more so than um the network but they will still uh impact themselves quite a bit okay so to reverse my previous question the rocket pull keys out of rocket pool and run them in a normal if you will node that's that's a really good question i don't think i've actually considered that um again probably probably not just based on uh the fact that you're if you make a deposit that through uh where live will be using

smart one uh uh head contracts on the f1 network uh that deposit will basically uh its withdrawal will basically be going back to that smart contract that at that time so you basically won't be able to to go outside rocketpool because that deposit will come back to a rockford smart contract and then be uh half will be given to that node operator across that plus their rewards and commission at that time i'm sorry i wouldn't advise it just based on that yeah okay so to be clear i just meant to not have to do not have to run two sets of nodes oh okay all right so money all right so you may are you basically saying if you make uh

one or two deposits of like if you have if you have 16 other or 32 others so is that what you're saying well many of us are running right now solo staking nodes but we're also interested in participating in rocket fuel staking so so edible on the same machine as in can can we mix our our steak to okay what we don't want to do is is run two sets of the same software on two machines or two sensors okay so that that actually makes more sense so okay so if we're not talking about um you know specific validates that we created in rockport created ourselves if you just talking about sharing resources on a

node such as your f1 or f2 client that's absolutely doable so if you have i mean anyone can try this doubt now on uh peer mon on our test net with our smart node software uh when you actually set that up you can specify running an f1 or f2 uh docker container node within rocketpool and that's fine i mean that's all you want to do but if you already have a pre-existing setup where you already have an f1 connection at one endpoint f2 endpoint uh you can just point our smart node stack to those endpoints so and that that's fine that'll that means uh the only actual resources that rockford is really using is our rockable client which is uses like 10 megs of memory it's it's really lightweight and also um uh the extra validators within rock and pool so

it's yeah i mean it would not add very much in the way of extra resources to your setup if you want to just do that so that's great what it sounds like is then the the eth1 client and beacon chain client that that rocket for running is running is as a convenience and that we can swap in our own tooling for that yeah absolutely i mean we we've really tried to make our smart note stack really flexible angle f1 and f2 clients i mean if you want to anyone can try this out right now in the queue we've got beta guides for this and you can basically install our smart nodes stacking in a couple of clicks and it'll it'll set up your f1 your f2 coin everything will get up and running really smoothly so obviously ease of use is a primary

consideration the second primary consideration of obviously accommodating you know more advanced users that already have these services running and that that's entirely doable and we've got documentation on that if anyone wants to chase it off or you just ask us in discord we'll put you in the right direction okay awesome yes that's going to be good because i think a large portion of the node operator user base is going to be already running a node so that's good to hear yeah i i think yeah we actually have a lot of uh staking as a service providers who are interested in running nodes in rocketpool because these guys already have obviously pretty established setups and you know they might already have a lot of other from their own uh their own clients which they want to stake so obviously it

they can you know get a better return on the investment if they you know stake that within rockable versus outside of rockable so these guys have very elaborate setups and part of the reason why we did build out this is to accommodate these advanced users as well as well as ordinary and uh hopefully they'll be selling it up everyone so basically every staking pool is going to be rocket pool at the end of the day well i don't know about that but um there is i mean it's economically uh more feasible to stick with iraq well let's just put it that way i'd like to ask um about and i think

this these might be my last questions and i because i feel like i've taken it more than my fair share um so and i wish buddha was here because he shared a tweet with us recently um that where you had talked about um the the trusted um the trusted signatories for the dao i guess can you talk to us a little more about that because it i just want to put it in perspective between what is trusted and what is trustless okay so basically rockpool has two two dowels so think of these as uh the primary down which will be the community you know next to the protocol uh the

other one is the trusted no doubt so this is the dell which basically is our oracle network for for obviously the f1 and f2 chains aren't connected so there's no way to currently oh there is ways of doing that's basically what we've implemented but if you have um if you're say running a pool and you have a staking token that's based you know its values based on the validators within that pool um that's that uh those validated balances need to be reported back to them to the main chain essentially so um the only way that uh this can be done is based on what we've created which is a trusted node dow so this is a node this is a dow within rockpool which is made up of uh

trusted notes essentially so basically when we when we launch rockpool we're going to bootstrap it with about 10 trusted nodes and these trusted nodes are just regular nodes i mean there's nothing really that fancy about them except something in our smart contract basically flags them as a trusted note and we'll obviously be doing this at the start because we can't launch it down without bootstrapping with certain amount of members uh so these these trusted nodes will basically be reporting back validated balances uh the the current f verse rpo price ratio smart contracts as well for collateralization and so forth so these basic uh data that needs to report validated so the way this works without

trusting no doubt we're going to be bootstrapping with about 10 members and these nodes will basically are required at least 51 of these nodes are required uh to agree on any data reported back to our main contracts and they essentially will operate autonomously if any new trusted nodes which wish to join this uh this this down they need to be invited by an existing trusted node the rest of trusted nodes then need to approve this member uh they can also kick members out and basically slash some of their rpl for misbehaving so if these members don't behave they can be booted out by the rest of the members uh and so forth and so they they can basically set a few other settings as well and this is basically used to guarantee that data reported back from f2 to f1 is

valid and isn't uh you know abused by any any single party because it requires you know a quorum of these validate nodes to agree uh that this data is accurate so that's that's essentially how the validated balances in rock pool get reported back and the rf token anyone that holds this token the amount of value it um basically has relies on this data being reported back every 24 hours by these notes and we could actually um have a heaven uh at staker uh node in there as part of the trusted community because obviously this is communion protocol and so yeah obviously bootstrapping it with a certain amount of members that are you know uh out have good standing within the community would be one of our

main uh kind of objectives so we have we will obviously be running one of these nodes here's the service providers and uh basic eyes which is basically another uh ethereum community uh group and a few others as well and hopefully if at stake is is interested uh you guys can run one of these as well you had to say hello yeah um being a few questions in the chat about you know lock up and the tokenization do you want to just chat about the re token quickly yeah i yeah that's that's probably a good one so if you're not super familiar uh with re though rocker pool uh ahri

is basically our uh tokenized uh stake so it's if you want to stake uh your your other but you don't want to run a no you don't have the 32 eighth or anything like that this this will allow you to basically stake um by holding a token and that's it you don't need to lock it anywhere um you just need to hold on to it and that's basically it um so this is experience uses to try to get involved in staking uh removes a lot of the barriers to entry and also uh one of one of the other things which is often overlooked um it it allows uh decentralized applications adapt and so forth to office staking services which isn't possible if you're

using a centralized staking service or something that has something that uses a custodian so the reason for this is obviously if you're a decentral like let's say euro a dax a dex um if you're a decentralized exchange you have some other work rather than just sitting idle in your smart contracts uh you can basically build on top of rocket pool i have that ever sent to rocket pool you will then receive our ra token uh back to that dex and that basically gains staking boards over time based on the whole performance of the rockefeller network uh yeah and so that's that's a very high level kind of uh description of it but uh yeah if anyone's kind of wants to experi experience well have a token that gains

value uh stacking rewards over time yeah you can do this in pimo uh right now um it's it's super easy to use you only need metamask to and it takes about three clicks cool uh phil daddy asked a good question in the chat earlier uh do you want to uh ask that on mike phil or do you want me to read it yeah yeah sure um hi everyone um so my question is basically that as a note operator you only need to bring up 16 eth but you have 32 eth influence in the protocol but such protocols like rocket pool reduce the cost for

for network attacks yeah it would i mean that's part of the reason why i wean it is because that still requires an absolutely abnormal amount of capital to you know performing any kind of his finality it would still be an absolute astronomical amount of either you will basically see other staking pools and potential other protocols coming out that will allow you to hold less than 16e but and then essentially collateralize your node above that if token is um that was kind of viewed as quite dangerous to us based on that uh because if you allow less than 16 eighths uh or even you know less than eight or even less than four

um that kind of amount a reduction increases the attack service for uh significantly so we we decided i'll say 16 was a really good um kind of level for us because it keeps node operators honest it still allows them to earn their own rewards and commissions and so forth and it also doesn't still keeps the attack service uh for a very pretty astronomically high so uh yeah that's another one of the reasons why we've kind of opted for 16 and not for less than that i i'm kind of curious if you know i call myself the beacon chain uh health consultant because i

you know my my long game my long con is the health of the beacon chain and i i've kind of wondered if if rocket pull became the de facto standard of staking if it was easier and your ui is definitely easier to install than any of the other clients than any of the native clients if rocketpool became the standard system for staking what would the health of the beacon chain look like what it would compromise the health of the beacon chain or would it would it steward the health of the beaky train that's a really good question i define uh just as long as the protocol

remains decentralized and um i mean you know go-to for stake in ethereum 2.0 um my only probably primary worry in that regard is decentralization what your cons are more than we kind of wanted to because you know a lot of more people and say north america might be staking uh solely through rocketpool versus outside of rockford uh and that obviously you know as long as things are running well by that point i think it'd be absolutely fine um but if that happened very early on i would probably be a little bit worried because that would obviously increase you know the potential for something to go wrong dramatically versus uh effect a lot more validators versus you know people staking outside rock

pool but i think generally as long as it's running well it has been running well for some time um i can't see it having too big of an impact actually be decentralized and trustless so um i think that only the only kind of big potential fact at that point would be a malicious dow um that would acting not in in favor of the network but then again dows are basically based on because they would be i mean if rocket pool was that large by that point rpl would probably probably be worth quite a bit too and this malicious doubt would then basically be sacrificing uh their their own economic interest to kind of hurt rock pools so um that would we can put in certain

certain settings to basically uh to mitigate you know sudden changes in the product you take um the the inflation rate from five percent and change it to 100 within you know like a month or so we can mitigate that by having curb where you know it's only allowed to change x amount every month and that will kind of kind of give it people like that you know that inflation rate is suddenly increasing rapidly over several months and people can kind of exit if they want to or or you know against the smallest as they are so that that's probably my main concern is a malicious doubt at that point am i your response is is

genuine about the recognition that it could become a problem that would need to be addressed rather than just dismissing it so i do appreciate that yeah definitely all about security hey david i gotta go go ahead hey david um i've been with you guys since uh danny it uh it's good to see you face to face i recognize your name i've been here since the ico and for those that didn't know the way you got really um humble and amazing and straightforward and definitely not a money grab so i have a and i'm pretty sure you can't answer a lot of them but

um how is your guys's funding doing did you guys apply for any grants for uh git coin um any update with the consensus venture um i think they've changed their name but uh consensus like they're they're they have this uh investing portfolio arm um and kind of to go on the last question of super fizz and maybe it was answered but maybe maybe i didn't quite understand it um is there and it'd be a very good could be a very good problem potentially in the short to medium but is there any thought about rocketpool becoming too big to fail on a beacon chain health perspective

um and would that have you cons considering how many nodes you guys would ever be running uh i'll i'll take my mic off but thank you great question so i'll just address uh the first one which is basically you know fun funding was um we've been extremely concerned i mean we're probably one of the oldest projects that's still going from 2017 uh token sale craze and we actually had these smallest or what one of these small stocking sales at the time like it was ridiculously small compared to the other ones and um yeah as you just mentioned too we actually gave uh funds back because we went over our cap and we actually had distributed

funds back to anyone that participated um but it's in wirecoin we're still going and we do have uh plenty of runway left because we obviously want to see this through for the next few years um it's because we've been extremely conservative spending wise uh and probably one of the main factors in that is we did not list our token with any huge exchanges uh like i can't tell you the amount of pressure that we had uh in 2017 2018 uh for um you know during that market craze at the time because it was crazy uh they they basically you know it was a sign of recognition to get listed on one of the biggest exchanges uh and so forth and we had exchanges trying to charge us massively like i

can't i can't tell you the amount of times we got approached by exchanges uh who basically said yeah bullish token for you know millions like it was it was absolutely crazy and this was during the fifa storm uh 2017 you know early 2018 and um a lot of projects were harmed around today signed up to a lot of these they spent huge amounts of capital early on because you know suddenly they've got all this capital to play with and obviously that was extremely short-sighted uh a lot of those tokens aren't around anymore some of those exchanges aren't around anymore so we basically opted in early on to not um to not um pay for exchange listings and we still have to this day we're basically only listed on decentralized exchanges which fits our ethos perfectly because

obviously being a decentralized protocol being listed on decentral exchanges is is a perfect fit for us uh it also allows our smart contracts to talk to decentralized smart contracts and you know trade our token uh kind of within the protocol which is a very cool thing so we don't need centralized exchanges for that um anyway uh fun to us we're doing pretty well we've kept a very compact team i think you'll find it's myself and and jake doing the lion's share of the work and we have uh you know one or two other people that do contract work for us occasionally and so yeah i mean just yeah keeping conservative spending keeping a small team and just kind of driving hard over those years has kind of kept us

in a pretty good pretty good space i think you mentioned consensus well consensus is um still a very very big part of us they help us out all the time i did a big consensus ama to the majority of the consensus people and their extended network uh about two weeks ago i think it was an internal one i'm not sure if it was external i'll find out about that though um yeah but that's doing really well um what was your last question yeah what was your last ah it was too big to fail could could rocky become too big to fail

um yeah obviously um that's that's a concern in any industry um again probably my the main thing that would kind of um alleviate people's fears with that is obviously rocketpool being a protocol rather than you know any kind of centralized service so as long as it's decentralized and trustless and working properly i think that's i think that's fine but i mean it obviously is a concern uh rolling out wise i already mentioned those three phases where we're going to roll out in kind of a joint venture with the dow uh and we also do have a couple other things we're gonna roll out is kind of a strict amount of node operators uh to a certain limit uh as we roll out so over a certain period we'll kind of

enable more to come in there more to come and the more to come in and use this as a kind of kind of way to regulate uh the launch of the platform so that you know everyone doesn't jump in all at once and um yeah so security is first and foremost with us i hope that was all your questions yeah thank you thank you thank you oh nice good to see you face to face yeah nice to meet you man yeah what do you do man uh we got a question in the chat asking will uh rock a pool ever move to have the validator you're shared um so

that that's actually a really good question so if the validated key is basically are you talking about the intestation key and all that so yep um yeah i mean people can actually we're actually going to be launching a grant after we launch for people to build uh this kind of uh functionality on top of rocketport so it's not something we're going to concentrate on for at launch because obviously having 168 is part of the um part of the report protocol and obviously you know reduce the attack vector on ethereum 2.0 but if anyone wants to kind of build the ability for a validated uh that 168 to be built from multiple parties uh using secret shared validates or anything like that um they can absolutely do that and and that can be part of the grants program if they come with a good

proposal um we'll be actually happy to kind of fund that uh as long as the proposal is obviously good and you know secret share validates uh you know a realized tech by that time so yeah i mean it's absolutely possible i mean it's a good thing about the protocol is it can be built on top of and built into uh very very easily so yeah good answer and we got to experience some australian wildlife too there yeah yeah so that's the crow actually that's a crow yeah they're very loud this time of year i think um i am okay

uh opening up now if you guys so patricio i haven't heard from you and you always have but well you're muted still buddy uh i'm sorry i was busy singing the poets because we had experience oh you you've been working yeah and we got a co-op of you sir someone that's getting a lot and i'm sure it's a single person so likely next call we will require people to uh put their cameras on for getting it and so in other news i do have 40 pro-apps that i will be selling after this call they are please contact me on openc and and we had more questions people

were asking to race in hand so maybe we we should open mike yeah i'm okay to open mic okay i will do that oh it's already done okay well so while no one's talking i i love um this idea of of switching of not being a service but being a protocol because a protocol to me is so much more robust that than a simple service because i imagine a service as being

something run by a singular entity to do a job yeah well i imagine a protocol to be something that anyone can interact with and anyone can um sort of build on so as a matter of fact i'm going to do my state of the state recording after this and i'm probably going to talk about uh the concept of rocket pool as a protocol and then everyone will call me a show yeah i mean it is something that we kind of do need communicate more we've always kind of called ourselves a decentralized staking network but network and protocol are kind of interchangeable to some degree um but yeah i would definitely say very easily and that's been one of our design goals from from the start so

would you say that there that this is a difficult question because i i'm not and it's probably not appropriate to ask but i've set it up and i can't take it back now um do you have are there people you're looking at as competitors or other projects that you look at as competitors to rocket pool or do you feel like you're in atlanta because when i personally when i imagine it i imagine custodial pools and then i imagine rocket pool and you know people reach out and they're like hey fizz you're always talking about rocket pool why aren't you talking about the custodial pools and for me it's because they're not really in the same arena do you have a view on that yeah no that's really good like we we

try to stay focused on what we're doing rather than kind of getting distracted by what what the other ones are doing because we kind of do view ourselves as building more of a protocol rather than uh you know any kind of um custodian centralized kind of uh pooling service so i i would regard those guys as different from us um basically because um well we are basically entirely smart contract based and we'll have built-in standards for people behaving the protocol and all these other different different factors which none of these other guys have so um yeah i'll definitely view us as kind of being being different from them um admittedly a lot of people do kind of get um confused between rocketpool

and you know other staking services which are launching now and so forth um basically one primary thing i always tell around like if anyone watching now is using a custodian or or you know anything that's us apart from any of these and one one thing i should kind of mention too like if if any pulling services launching now is actually doing that uh you know using a their own withdrawal key or custodians withdrawal key or something if they do just swap they are still centralized because all deposits up to that point belong to them or a custodian and they need to manually bring that those funds back to a contract where their token holders can catch them at a few

points so if anyone launches now they are essentially centralized until the end regardless if they swap to smart contracts or not because they still have this certain amount of funds locked up um behind the key which requires hearing uh or quite trust to get those funds out so that's that was another again one of the primary factors that's why we wanted to wait because if we launched beforehand um we're still centralized i mean because we still have x amount of funds that manually need to be moved in one to two years time very interesting perspective yes thank you for sharing that and i will try and shut my mouth if anyone else i know that um there's so many interesting perspectives on

rocket pulling okay um so we can begin to wrap up if if every what i'd like to ask you is um how can people so i and i don't i know you've mentioned um the 2.5 test net how can people get involved with rocket pool uh if if they wanted to buy your token you mentioned they weren't listed on exchanges how can they how can they get that token and what token would they be buying because i know that you know there is a multi-token system um and yeah yeah it's sorry

um well rpl is our token but um we have we have two strict policies of rockford there's no drama and no shillings so i'm not going to tell anyone where to buy them but they are available on decentralized exchanges and if you're talking about any other tokens that we have in rockfall so we have r8 which is our tokenized staking uh token yeah you get that when you deposit ever into the rock pool front end so it's not something you could go and buy at this stage but you might be able to on a third party remark another token n8 which is node operators if the event operator wants to exit early uh they can withdraw n8 which is a one-to-one backing of their ever um but that that requires a really long

withdrawal period like plus three months to actually get that to prevent certain attack vectors on the network um again um that one probably won't be used a lot because i mean if you if you do log out as a validated your your other is then sitting idle for the next who knows how long and that that wouldn't be a good opportunity but anyway uh yeah so that that's our tokens i i think that was it wasn't serious yeah i love your no drama no shilling policy i i always as someone who is excited like i'm excited about rocket pool um like i i struggle because i want to talk about it so much and like i want i want people to participate and it's struggle it's being excited and chilling so i

appreciate that you can walk that fine line if anyone can troll it could go that's really the bus causing drama i'll give them one after i'll get i'll give them 10 rpl because that hasn't happened from the start at least to my knowledge unless i had a few drinks one night and then forgot about it so i guess we can wrap up i want to thank you so much not not just for participating with us but uh i'm not ashamed to say that i have a i've developed a lot of respect for what you and jake are doing and for this concept of rocket pool as a as a pro i'm excited like i i can't wait to see

what happens uh with rocket pool so thanks for yeah i really appreciate you having us on again too um like uh we're always happy to have a chat um i always say that the problem isn't getting me to start talking about rockford's getting him to stop so uh yeah you might need to wind this up otherwise i'm just gonna keep on talking sure sure all right uh thanks we'll look forward to seeing you again soon all right guys thank you very much have a great afternoon night morning bye all right we're out all right