ChatGPT's Viral Explosion: 1 Million Users In... 60 Minutes

Transcript

[Music] welcome bankless nation to the AI rollup where we stay up to speed with all the emerging trends developments drama in the AI crypto space i'm David Hoffin here with my co-host of Jaws jaws how was your week my man what's up dude um you know that meme of uh Dave Chappelle kind of like scratching his neck and he's he's like "You got any more of that stuff David?" Yeah that was me for the last two weeks because we've got a ton of AI updates to kind of go through on this episode and we skipped an episode last week sorry for all those regular consumers at the AI roll up just schedules didn't work but we're back with a double dose of AI and and there is a lot to go through some really important stuff happened over the last

week David uh for example the most contentious and polaric uh events ever were giblified and animated to be made super We all got a new word into our like vernacular which is giblication yeah and and it refers to a studio gibli uh style of artistic animation which took over Twitter and the world essentially because uh the folks at OpenAI basically integrated this new feature which allows anyone to upload an image and uh you know giblify it per se so it made give generalized artistic direction to what they want that photo to be like amended to and then everyone was like make it studio Gibli i mean I mean David like pull up

this thread that I just sent you um I mean we we kick off with basically Trump after his the Trump fist pump yeah you know the fist pump after his like assassination attempt and I I don't know for for some reason it's uh it's kind of even more epic than uh epic more epic you scroll down and you got there i saw a studio Gibli version of like the World Trade Center like in the midst of the plane going into it i'm like wow I am surprised that they are allowing this to come out this is incredible it it's pretty nuts but okay so like a more undertalked point around this whole gibl okay it it's really cool it took over the internet everyone had a

load of fun but um two important things happened kind of behind the scenes from like a business and economic standpoint for OpenAI david number one um Sam put out this tweet where he explains that when they had their initial chat GPT moment right um which was around 26 months ago I think he says in this tweet um it took them 5 days to get to a million users which at the time was record-breaking we haven't seen that across any other company um when they did this uh animation image generation feature which led to the giblification of everything um they added 1 million users in 60 minutes over one hour and that was 2 days after the feature launched so I bet you one

million users in five days gets collapsed down to 1 million users in one hour is is a pretty insane acceleration and it's kind of like a a trend that we're just seeing with the AI in general right um but then there's even more news here which is um they recently closed their round um conveniently enough after this new feature launch which now values open AI at $300 billion David with a B um so it's pretty insane to kind of like see their valuation growth from I think it was like 10 billion to start off with and then they've got like a new capital raise of $40 billion that's $40 billion i thought that was an April Fool's joke

until I realized it was posted on March 31st um so it is the largest private tech funding round in history per CNBC that's pretty crazy that's pretty crazy yeah i think one big theme of the episode this week is there is actually very much a lot of life in the AI markets despite like the the decreasing NASDAQ decreasing SPY like macro fears the AI economy the AI investment the AI private markets are are extremely strong the the fundamentals aren't tracking the market share or the market cap growth of a lot of these different stocks and tokens as a result of that all right so that's that's the first bit of the news that we're going to cover

this week the rest of let me kind of preview some of the the subjects we're going to talk about we're going to talk about the Coreweave IPO that just rocked NASDAQ and again gives us a sense of the strength of the AI bull market xai acquires X so the AI company has acquired X formerly known as Twitter so we we'll talk about that uh there's a new world's best model out there uh there's a new world's best model every single week but this is a new week and so there's a new world's best model so I want listeners to place your bets which AI lab created it did it come from the United States did it come from China did it come from a different country everyone placed your bets uh and then the company behind Vibe Coding is now valued at 9.6 almost 10 billion as Vibe

Coding works its way into public culture at least on Twitter uh so these are all the big news and then we're going to of course get into crypto AI we're going to talk about Billy Betts and some things going on in the AI agents and crypto side of things um Jazz are you ready for Core Wever any last comments before we just dive into the OG crypto AI company well before anyone realized that this was an intersection they were used for like mining and stuff right David cororeweave yes okay so this Cororeweave company which just went public on the NASDAQ just this last week uh started off as a crypto mining company doing Ethereum GPU mining back in Ethereum's proof of work days so it was founded in 2017 as

Atlantic Crypto uh like I said initially focused on cryptocurrency mining with GPUs uh in the 2018 crypto downturn the crash of the IP ICO meta uh Core Weef pivoted to leverage its GPUs for just high performance computing tasks not necessarily AI a lot of like rendering stuff uh because gaming rendering like graphics rendering yeah just like maybe like maybe Hollywood studio CGI kind of rendering things like this because AI still really as an industry hadn't really taken off yet the demand for compute resources were still still pretty nent um so this company is based in New Jersey where there's just a lot of data centers uh but the core we've also run data centers all across the United States and Europe with NVIDIA GPUs just to deliver scalable high

performance cloud computing for AI models and inference that's their business model today just to talk about some of the numbers uh Cororeweave reported $1.9 billion in revenue in 2024 uh net loss of $900 million just to investments just trying to scale up their their business model um during the IPO they raised $ 1.5 billion making it the largest AI related listing at the time so that's kind of the big headline news is the Core Weeve a IPO $ 1.5 billion raise making made it the um the largest AI related listing ever uh so that's pretty cool um so everyone is kind of looking at the IPO of Cororeweave to see like okay markets are are down there's like shaky markets trump is like making it real hard for

equity investors and also we're all kind of locating looking at Nvidia being 30% off the highs like all right like is there life in this AI investment like meta or is it coming to an end like what like give us like the canary in the coal mine for AI related investments uh and so the stock opened at $39 which is below the IPO price at $40 so it opened up below $40 it kind of had this lackluster reception on day one and then a bunch of people commentators were talking about the obvious short around Corwe for a few reasons very high debt load uh $8 billion of debt and $2.6 billion in operating lease liabilities

uh and so this raises concerns about the company's ability to just meet their financial obligations um and also there's customer concentration so 77% of its revenue of Cororeef's comp revenue comes from u Microsoft and OpenAI microsoft relating just for 62% alone there's some business model doubts that people are wondering if Coree is just you know GPUs in the cloud how defensible is that moat uh the critics have argued that the lack of unique moat to protect against this market position it just doesn't exist uh and then also just the market timing and and around AI hype um like I said the IPO came around a volatile market period with tech stocks under pressure and some people are just saying coreweave is just

overhyped because AI is overhyped it's trying to ride the AI wave without actually any proven profitability or diversified revenue uh and so this was the day one of the IPO and so the headlines here in the Financial Times says "Core's IPO tested the waters and missed the mark." That is a lot of fun day one a lot of fun came in like $1 below the IPO price ipo price of like $40 maybe $40 uh came in at $39 that's day one day two not the same story ri rips 42% higher way above the IPO price uh we have uh Joe Weisenthal who tweeted out uh this morning core up another 20%

and you look at the price right now from the the do bottom of the market where it bottomed out at $36 like $4 below the IPO price it got all the way up to $65 is currently at $56 this morning so this has a crypto chart in a bull market that is a crypto chart bro this thing has ripped on the second day after the IPO price so any any IPO purchase anyone who has bought Coral Weave in the last like two days is in well into the green and I would say that this is if we are looking at just like a canary in the coal mine for broadly AI looking real good looking real good i got more to say about core but I'll pause and let you let you chime in here well no I mean my next natural question is why all the all the FUD made

sense David surely the FUD like tracks into price progression similarly to how old the AI progress is leading to price decline right what happened here what am I missing i I don't know i don't know i Well I I think you can maybe use Cororeweave as a litmus test for inference demand for inference okay like and I think this is coming the timing of this as well as the gibl giblification of the internet I think is pretty good because Sam Alman was tweeting you guys are melting our GPUs right like we need we need to actually take away this feature away from free accounts because our GPUs are just melting I I don't think we have any data as to the costs that the giblification of the internet

has put on uh open AI just for inference costs but you could you can just see Jevans paradox just exhibited in real time last week was like there is so much demand for turning one picture into a different picture just to share it with your friends right there's just a lot of inference demand and this is one sales this is one feature yeah yeah yeah okay so there's another part of this story that I think is pretty cool okay so if the Ethereum merge happened on time Cororeweave would not be here today explain yourself what okay so this is where Cororeweave started they started

off mining Ethereum in the proof of work days and that was their revenue oh they would have never focused they were they I I from the early days they had apparently just understood that in the future there will be a lot of inference costs but that future is not yet here today but that was apparently the vision that they like founded the company on is like oh yeah GPU GPU resource demand is going to be high not just for AI but also just modeling graphics and also and also cryptocurrency and so their plan was to use Ethereum GPU mining to just be sufficiently profitable to get to the point where like in the future AI inference will be a thing that can actually float their their business and so that was back in 2018 2019 they just

started buying up a ton of high-end Nvidia uh GPUs just to build out a deep well of capacity uh and because the Ethereum merge just got delayed from 2019 to 2020 to 2021 all the way to 2023 they were just able to maintain profitability until chat GPT got released in 2022 and that's when this AI inference like bull market really really happened and and so I think that is one of the biggest most like they saw it they saw the vision for AI inference and demand for AI inference they also saw that you know Ethereum mining and GPU mining can carry them to that point and I think with also a ton of luck they were able to just pull that transition

off pretty beautifully so I think it's a pretty cool story yeah that's awesome it seems like uh the right pieces fell together at the right time that that is insane like I I wonder what core we would have ended up it would have just focused on crypto mining presumably at that point yeah they probably just would have shut down and be like "Okay we've just made our money there's once Ethereum turned into proof of stake like the next largest proofof work like yield was Ethereum Classic which was like 1/100th the value of Ethereum and so once Ethereum proof of work went away there was nothing left for them except JBT had already launched i'm curious David over the last 24 hours how much have they added to their market cap do we know uh just just in the last 24 hours well this is a live chart right uh

and so uh it is the second and so I mean the well like even even from its bottom from like its IPO price like it must be up like so the bottom on March 31st was 36 $36 so at the very bottom at $36.15 to where it top was like 65 it's up 56% right now the top the top was uh plus 80% and what is that in terms of like market cap uh the current market cap the the peak of the today the current market cap is $26 billion i think it's down to like$22 billion wow so it added like billion $15 billion if not over like the last couple of days yeah I think it

added like eight or 10 billion since for the bottom since the bottom wow wow that is crazy anyways congrats to Corore Reef yeah and congrats to the IPO holders and stock purchases that just ignored the entire FUD yeah amazing all right take us into XAI J okay so big news from uh the Elon Musk X or Twitter sphere right now so XAI is essentially the offshoot or subsidiary that we initially thought um that built Grock grock is basically the Twitter AI model and Grock we've spoken about Grock Grock 3 its latest model um outperformed a lot of the

leading models when uh it launched um but big news this week is that XAI so that's the company that built Grock acquired X aka formerly known as Twitter um and that is a pretty insane thing uh to to happen in my opinion right so if we pull up this tweet uh from Elon himself he starts it off with saying XA's acquired X in an all stock transaction the combination values XAI at $80 billion and X at $33 billion but what I really want to focus David is on this fourth paragraph down here where he says XAI and X's futures are intertwined today we officially take the step to combine the

data models compute distribution and talent this combination will unlock immense potential by blending XAI's advanced AI capability and expertise with X's massive reach and this is the point twitter or X currently has 600 million active users David right and we know that like Elon is like obsessed with like finding the truth and information or yada yada yada whatever but the fact is this model this air model now probably has one of the largest distribution mechanisms or you know captive audiences to test any kind of product or feature with them on them right i don't know about you but like having Gro 3 available on Twitter has

made it super easy for me to like do my research on Twitter or like catch up with the latest news or you know check out sources for a particular tweet to see if you know what they're saying is real or not right and now um we've kind of spoken about this before but we believe that like X will become kind of like a founding place for a lot of different AI apps in the future presuming like that you know they allow agents to prosper and AI models to exist and this is just like confirmation in my opinion that this is going to this is the path that X and Elon and the entire XAI team wants to lead um the third point I'm going to make David is the data that this model now officially has access to is going to be insane and it's

in real time it's people's opinions subjective thoughts it's a truth seeeking machine all that data is going to be fed into the AI model and it's going to be ragged right retrieval augmented generation which is going to make the model smarter and smarter in real time per day per hour per whatever unit of time and I think that is just an insane access point to have and it it's crazy to see it like officialized right i wonder how much of Elon's original motivations for purchasing Twitter actually was in this story i think it's hard to understate how incredibly valuable the information is that comes out of humans Twitter accounts doing just reporting about what they see about

their that end of the world like news happens first on the internet on Twitter and you we've seen like I was always would talk to to Ryan about like the difference between reading articles and just being on Twitter specifically where like after but there was like my life was different once I got on Twitter because previously I would read about news events about things that were happening and then I got on Twitter and I realized that news reporters are just reading tweets yes and turning that into articles on MSNBC.com but you can just skip the like editorial or just the MSNBC or whatever interpretation of real life events and just go straight to the source which is Twitter and that is the

unique compelling uh case for XAI which is the data that only they have like high fidelity access to which is people's tweets and so I think the the real timeiness around the Grock model I think is going to be very valuable uh and you can see you can see why like Elon Musk is like putting these pieces together i'm going to be completely honest with you guys i already thought X AI and X were already intertwined um I didn't know I didn't know that they were not already intertwined they they were intertwined but XAI was a subsidiary of X okay and now it's become like the owning entity of the social media site so that flip is very potent and important right it's weird to think that

Twitter is owned by a larger entity yeah it's it's owned by an AI lab right now owned by an AI Twitter is now owned by an AI lab which which makes sense that I think you could we in a parallel universe twitter is still Twitter and it would still be bought by an AI lab well well you know what's a kind of like weirder way to think about it David you know how like all these social media sites basically have really smart trained algorithms to like serve you up the best content the algorithm in this case owns the social media site explicitly i don't know where this goes next but I'm excited for it well one of my one of the more obvious thesis that I think this is heading in is um I think XAI is going to be uh on a path of really

aggressive market penetration right uh well in the same week actually David they announced that they're launching integration into Telegram right and Telegram has you know over I think 300 million monthly active users or something ridiculous like that now now Grock is going to be embedded natively into chats and into the app itself right i actually um if you I I wrote about this if you pull up this tweet David um I actually argued that like Grock integrating into Telegram is actually going to be really good for agents because now Oh right it's 1 billion MAUs have access to real-time AI but um what I think is really cool here is if you have this AI model training off once

again personalized chat data or imagine it becomes personalized to your group chat David right where you're talking about different tokens or you've got a question you could just ping Grock it gives you a quick answer and you can make a decision on what token to buy or what movie to go book and see or etc etc right um and I think that data is just going to constantly feed back into the main mother entity which is X AI which makes its model even smarter and applicable to any other application or distribution network that they're using so it wouldn't surprise me if we see a ton of different apps appear on X natively embedded that might be agents or just features like uh OpenAI's giblification image generator um over the next couple of weeks or even months

that is the main difference uh of all the AI models out there grock lives in the place places places that I go it's consumer facing like if I need to go to chatbt I have to go type in chatgypt.com i never type in Grock i it's in Twitter it's embedded in Twitter and there's a button for it and so that's the that's kind of the unique thing about Grock for me is it's already in the places that I'm navigating on the internet yeah exactly exactly imagine a world where your day-to-day banking runs on a blockchain that's exactly what Mantle is building powered by a $4 billion treasury and poised to become the largest sustainable onchain financial hub as part of their 2025 expansion Mantle is introducing three new core innovation pillars that bridge

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please google google people wait who who could have seen it which one is Google that's Gemini that's Gemini gemini is Google okay so Gemini is the new is the new world's best model for the week exactly so Gemini 2.5 Pro um as McKay Wriggley in this tweet states is now easily the best model for code uh he goes "It's extremely powerful 1 million token context is legit." By the way 1 million token context window means basically you can print uh copy and paste essays essays worth of information into one single prompt and it'll comprehend all of it it also means 1 million tokens is like 1 million tokens

is is roughly 1 million syllables and so that'll that'll collapse down to like 600,000 words 700,000 words and man like 1,000 words takes you about 10 minutes to read just there was a time where it was literally like 500 words max in a prompt oh my god it's it's just insane and and if people are wondering you know why is this particular characteristic really important well think about the amount of information you can allow the AI model to ingest in a single prompt and then like couple that with further up prompts that you like prompt afterwards it basically means the AI acts smarter in a much more quick and efficient way which is really important if you want like to have really

intuitive powerful magical AI experiences right if you have to repeatedly tell um you know this AI model over like a number of prompts like hey this is by the way like this is my age and this is my weight and etc it just gets completely unusable um another really important thing is it also means it has a really large memory context window David so it's going to remember the conversation for much longer as well which means that you know um one of the things that I'm doing with Chad GBT right now is I'm getting it to act as my dietitionian and personal trainer in the gym right so it has my blood marker um indicators it it knows about my ethnicity my kind of body type how much I work out what I'm eating and it

measures all the calories and everything and it tracks and it can give me a comprehensive report of my progress basically every week and you can't do that without you know a large context window and a large kind of memory capacity and Gemini 2.5 Pro is basically hitting all these different markers i think the most important one though David is it's unseated Claude as the best AI coding companion or assistant so that is kind of a big deal claude I thought had a very sticky moat when it came to developers correct and basically uh so for those who don't know Claude is um you know kind of like the leading AI model from Anthropic which is one of the leading AI model producers out there and for many months now it has been the best at helping developers code and in some

cases take over a lot of their coding work but now Gemini 2.5 which bared no kind of indication that they were going to be that it was going to be good at coding has now just completely leaprogged um Claude and I think you that for that to happen in such a small window of time is just an in insane to see um so really really cool the conversation that we're highlighting here on Twitter I think is actually pretty poant uh so let me just read it out uh tweet reads from this one individual uh not inside of crypto Twitter it's kind of hilarious that Google dropped their biggest upgrade ever and Gibli core completely hijacked the zeitgeist peak example of how vibes now overrides tech merit in the intention economy interesting point uh

then the tweet that we're looking at is responding to this and it says "Respectfully disagree it is true the timeline is full of chat GPT40 images however people who pay with their credit cards for API access are indeed noticing that Gemini Pro 2.5 is way cheaper and way faster than competitors and appears to be a great model we will continue to have a divergence between consumers and companies." And I think what he means here is that okay great like the giblification of the internet is definitely capturing attention in zeitgeist but people paying money are paying money for Gemini Pro 2.5 and so there's kind of like a quality versus quantity conversation here and I think

it we're what we're seeing is chat GPT has taken over mind share like it's the it's the phrase chat GBT in the same way Google you know just Google it just chat GBT it but that's like being pointed at as this like kind of low value commodification of AI and not something that we can convince consumers to pull out their credit cards and actually pay for it here but what everything that you're saying about the strengths of Gemini is convincing people to pull out their credit cards and actually pay for it that's kind of the the conversation that I'm seeing exactly so so like kind of like another way to think about it is uh you know attention economy how you shape a narrative mind share is is pretty much everything right and consumerf facing products are the way to do that um that being said like they I

think they are like two sides of the same coin David which is B2C which is where OpenAI this week excelled at with the giblification feature but then B2B is still a very dominant vertical and that's kind of where Google is playing in with this particular model uh release it's kind of how I think about it um I think something that's really cool as well David is we always speak about these models every week but we need to like have some kind of comparison chart that we kind of relate back to um I really like this um this tweet from Peter Yang where he he kind of like summarizes and I think he's he's used an AI model to to summarize this which is kind of funny but um he he you can kind of like see where Gemini 2.5 lines up in

terms of like coding and how chat GBT lines up in terms of image generation and it is just crazy how like you know the flips between these models and their leading capacity in particular verticals is changing just every week and I want to kind of like track this kind of like every day um one important thing I think is is really important to to kind of like look is um we see some red crosses on this uh image uh David and it's to show where a lot of these models are kind of lacking in right don't have that feature right yeah deep research for example voice chat image generation video generation live camera computer use and in my opinion I think these are some of the features that are going to

start popping up in the immediate weeks to come uh and I I think um it would be worth a discussion in the future as to where these features might be most valuable right so I for one use chat GPT's voice feature all the time right i've mentioned this on previous episodes and I think it's going to give us an idea of how these AI models are going to evolve in terms of like consumer applications david looking at this chart you just kind of got to tip your hat to ChatBT i know this chart is opinionated but chatbt has the the gold star which there's only one gold star per category right it has the majority of the number one positions across the all of the features here so everyday answers math reasoning deep research voice chat image

generation uh showing really that catchy boutique is the frontier model at least when it comes to just like features david have you vibe coded anything this week i I'm so incredibly non-technical that even vibe coding feels too technical for me dude you could literally prompt you could go onto this app called Cursor and you could prompt it like "Hey can you make me like a Flappy Bird mockup?" And it'll just do it for you David it takes seconds yeah i I urge you to create a cursor account um because I think this is going to be one of the biggest companies uh to date coming through and and actually like recently on this week um the company cursor which as I'm saying is the company behind VIP coding

is valued at 10 well $9.6 billion but let's call it $10 billion after they closed around of $625 million led by A6NZ Thrive Capital million that is so much money oh yes um and for people who are asking why I can show you like a quick kind of like demo so um if you pull up uh this tweet that I I've linked here David um it's this guy called I think Chong Yu um and uh basically what he's demoing here is he's put in a single prompt or maybe a few prompts and he said um basically can you build me a Flappy Bird clone using cursor and Claude claude is an AI model we mentioned earlier that is really good

at coding um and it did it but in 3D david so if you watch the Flappy Bird go but it's still a 2D game right the bird is still going from left to right correct but you know you you have like very unique kind of characteristics where you can kind of like edit the map in real time as you can see he's like moving around the map you see sunlight shadows that kind of stuff you don't really see in like a a 2D sphere or in the original Flappy Bird game also if you notice there's a lot of like flowchart action where he's like moving a cursor and he's dragging boxes from left to right that's how easy it's become to code David for some of these different apps like you don't need to really understand what the underlying code is going to be you just type in

words in literal English and you can kind of create this feature which becomes a box and then you just move the box around and you say "Hey can you uh can this feature which makes the thing thing jump up could you like make it happen with when I press the space bar please?" And they're like "Yeah sure." Like we we'll get that done okay it's edited it's updated for you right um it kind of reminds me of um Andre Karpathy's tweet that he I think he made about six months ago or maybe even a year ago David where he goes "English is the new is the hottest programming language." It's the new new hot programming language yeah I really like that tweet yeah yeah and and it's it's just kind of maintained that case um ever more since we've like since he tweeted that out um another cool Do you

know the game at League of Legends of course I dude yes have you ever played it of course I've played it okay i've I've never played it i suck at it i played it like one time same thing with like Dota right there are these like the this what I don't know what category is the name of these things like arena like massive multi not it's it's like an arena battle game or something like that so the this format of game was actually created uh from I believe a Starcraft like map editor game and so like some individual just like created this version of for Yeah forked open source edited the game created the game got massively popular inside of like the Starcraft online servers might have been

Warcraft I don't know um and then and that create that spawned this like multi-billion dollar industry around like League of Legends and Dota and this huge in Asia like huge huge prizes and so what I'm seeing here is like oh if it just gets like trivially easy to express creativity as some dude with skills or imagination like that i'm sure the guy who made the original like Starcraft or Warcraft like version of Dota did not have the technical skills to write the game code by code but he they just had the imagination to create Dota in the map editor the codified map editor for that game and then and then some10 billion industry came out of it so when

I see this I'm like okay well stuff like that is just now getting a thousand times easier like we're going to have an explosion of creativity of potential you know things that will be very very fun yeah so um do do you remember the uh Gartner technology chart David which basically kind of tells you that infrastructure comes first and it's there for like a decade and then the applications boom and they're worth more than the infrastructure themselves i think AI has either speedrun that incredibly quickly or it's flipped it on its head right because we went from like chips to consumer applications like this and it seems like the more consumer applications are being put out the more

consumer apps are going to get created right that's the point you're making with this like vibe coding situation right and what's crazy here David is that it's not just going to happen in software it's going to happen in media so you could have some of the best movie directors pop out of people that are using I don't know midjourney or now like a feature off of open AI like people who were creating these Giblly images by the way just slapped it in Midjourney or some video generator thing and suddenly you had a whole movie did you see the the Lord of the Rings movie premiere which was just insane so like I think we're going to see some of the best kind of media producers app creators like new enterprise or business owners just kind of pop up out of

nowhere i think we're going to enter unironically the application era all over again and I I think like this consumptive attention is going to become one of the scarcest things to to kind of focus on it's gonna be pretty nuts yeah yeah i'm I'm excited golden golden age of innovation all right jaz that's going to wrap up our strictly just AI section of the AI crypto world but we're going to get into the crypto side of the agenda but first a message from our friends and sponsors over at the crypto tax calculator jaws it's uh it's tax season i'm sorry to inform you of that but nonetheless comes every single year uh and if you were busy on chain last year if you were trading AI agents buying and selling agents you you probably have a tax bill you definitely do have a tax bill uh and we recommend

using the crypto tax calculator to just make this uh just a very painless uh transition to a very painless experience uh my I have an accountant EAZA because doing the taxes is so incredibly painful for me that I just get hire an accountant to do it to they my accountant uses the crypto tax calculator and so they just use the cryp Yeah so they just put it into the crypto tax an intermediary David yeah yeah yeah exactly i I just hate taxes so much that I will just pay someone to use crypto tax calculator on my behalf when cryptot tax agent that's the question yeah i don't know i don't know about that one uh you can get 15% off with the code bank list 15 there is a link in the show notes cryptotax calculator uh.com uh banklist.cc/cryptotaxcal will also work

okay let's get into the crypto side of things uh walk us through uh some of the the trends or since it's been two weeks what what's going on in the last two weeks of crypto i mean some extreme highs and some extreme lows unfortunately so okay within the the kind of like 12day period um since our last episode David um Bitcoin shot back up suddenly from its like lows of 80K to like 88K um which of course meant that a bunch of altcoins just kind of like pumped and if you bring up this tweet from uh D50XJF or 0xJF um what he's basically highlighting is that the majority of altcoin inflow went into AI coins now we've said this time

and again especially over the last couple of months that crypto AI is still the number one mind share subject in all of crypto and the reason why that's important is sentiment drives prices so if sentiment is up typically it drives prices up for that particular token and we've been finally kind of given some kind of validation in this in the depths of this whatever brief bare moment um where a lot of AI coins went up but I think it's important to zone in on which AI coins in particular went up right so he's he's listed some top performers here uh things like uh AI agent platform coins like bid which I think is very big in like the Binance community uh Billy which is ask Billy Bets which is a

gamble Billy bets which absolutely killing killing it and we've got some more news on that uh later we've got things like uh DeFi abstraction platforms like NUR uh we got SAM which is like a robotics coin which we can get into later which is pretty insane it's like open source robotics control protocol i've been looking at it and honestly watching a few streams of like these people controlling robots that are like battling each other it's just whatever it's insane yeah it's absolutely insane and then we have like the uh cursor of crypto uh David which is called Alchemy which was up 44% um and it basically allows you to vibe code any kind of app which has native crypto embeddings into it so you can either pay in crypto or it's governed by some kind

of cryptocoin incentivize etc and then you have the classics like banker um and griffane and grift banker's doing well bankers win really really well right and and you could argue that the main reason for that is because it's natively embedded in in X right so you could just kind of like add it or whatever i I'm pretty sure Caitlyn Jenner used Banker over the last Do we have that tweet like Caitlyn Jenner just wakes up and starts tweeting at Bankerbot bankerbot hey Cait will you create me a wallet well I I I think the funniest part of this interaction is if you look at this David um she goes "I I I actually didn't make a wallet so what is the wallet that you're quoting that I have or that you're claiming that I have Banker?"

Right and Banker's like "Obviously someone's tipped you in the past so we spun you up a wallet here's how you claim it." And Caitlyn Jenner's like "Wow I forgot that that was there cool let me get access to it." I don't know if there's a team behind this or whatever but the point is the AI coins went up and they were the altcoins to go up the most over this period of time now since then Bitcoin has unfortunately retraced and as a result 87,000 elon Musk just got fired from Doge and now the market's like that apparently wait Elon Musk got fired from from Doge like literally just like like 15 minutes before we started recording this yeah yeah trump said told Elon to go home okay that's hilarious tesla went up like 4% on the news that's hilarious um so so if I wanted to like

make kind of like a higher level point on this kind of like market pump from AI coins David is that there are specific categories that benefited the most number one is weirdly enough um gambley agents so these are agents gambling agents gambling agents so these are like agents that can help you place bets on certain things either through prediction markets or through tradition traditional sports betting sites the most obvious example from this is Ask Billy Bets which does this on basketball games it's done it on a few soccer games I believe and is going to expand i've spoken to the team recently they're going to expand to like a number of different things and we'll talk more about that later the second major category is DeFi

abstraction um platforms like Banker like Griffane um you know like uh Grift which is from the Sphere one orbital team um a terrible name for a ticker i I I completely agree um but the point being here is that there's obviously demand still from people to abstract away all their DeFi complexity and if I were to bet where kind of like money flows back into the AI agent economy or where focus is right now at least whilst all the agent platforms work on their V2 which they're going to launch and their app stores etc it's going to be in these two categories which is you know interesting to see uh he also calls out things that didn't recover david I see you highlighting it right now yeah wow that's a I mean I guess this makes sense

since he didn't list them but he says categories that barely recover launchpad launchpad and major ecosystem and frameworks which I'm guessing is like virtuals arc AI 16Z correct yeah which have been like suffered and down bad those are still wrecked yeah yeah um one thing I didn't call out is that Faulcoin hit a $600 million market cap it was actually the thing that pumped the most well that's because Fcoin is a meme more than it is an AI thing and you're saying that sentiment tracks directly to memes pretty much or Yeah uhhuh yeah it's tracking memes which is memes never really go down that's They definitely do go down but as a category memes are forever yeah exactly and I I think just in general like a lot of these crypto AI

coins are oversold or were oversold which is why they like pumped so much and so it doesn't really matter which kind of like category distinction uh it it was made right i mean I'm assuming a lot of these tokens are very liquid it doesn't take a whole a lot to like pump these things quite a bit correct correct and I think one other thing that's that's worth kind of pointing out if we want to kind of look at ecosystems within agents um if you pull up this tweet uh by uh Graham he basically highlights how a lot of tokens to your point that some are are pretty like illquid we're talking about like market caps between 5 million to 50 million uh market caps were all green on the day that Bitcoin just like pumped up to 88K um so you know there's probably a lot of

demand in virtual ecosystem specifically so looking out for the top tokens there and how they're performing is probably kind of worthy for any kind of potential investor that is kind of still interested in this space and looking where to allocate funds um in this down market let's get into the actual fundamentals of things because of course at the end of the day we need fundamentals to make all this stuff work uh before we started recording you guys you were telling me some pretty cool things about Billy Betts uh walk walk me in the banklist Nation through Billy Betts okay well it was as of two days ago March Madness and for for those of you who don't know Yeah please explain to me what March Madness is well but dude I'm a Brit so I I don't know if I'm the best person to explain this but

essentially um it is where all the top college basketball teams basically compete against each other so it's like NBA but for like college basketball teams and everyone gets obsessed about their bracket everyone gets obsessed about their bracket and I'm like pair brackets yeah the odds of having a perfect bracket is like something in like one in 70 million or something like that we talk about brackets yeah and listen I I've heard a lot from my friends who actually watch the sport and the live matches that it gets super competitive and it's like one of the most entertaining versions of basketball or leagues to watch right and the point around this is there's a lot of attention on March Madness or during March Madness and as a result of that there's a hell of a lot of people that

bet on this uh David and guess what our favorite betting agent Ask Billy Bets is being pitted against the best human sports betterers to try and win a $25,000 prize right okay so we have our AI agent you know team crypto going up against team humans non-crypto humans like actual basketball watchers professional basketball watchers and he's going toe-to-toe in making predictions about Billy's bracket versus other humans right so so the competition is called the Profit X March Madness Tournament which focuses on this college basketball season and it's a tournament um so it's elimination style rounds

right you're placed up against an opponent and you need to outb them for the game winners move up to the next round it's as simple as that right and last time I checked Billy's record was 731 which basically meant that you know he was he defeated two or three opponents in like one fell swoop right so over three different games um and Billy has made it into the sweet 16 which is I believe the final 16 matches that are being played or final 16 opponents um which uh it did autonomously just by making its own analysis making its own bets taking profit when was needed and outbetting the other individuals so uh to to date it's made like a 40% uh roughly a 40%

ROI on all its plays during Marsh Madness i think I've got a breakdown of its bets wins and losses in this tweet over here um you know for for all betting fans out here you can make a lot of sense out here so you know it's betting like you know something around three to five or six grand roughly per per game so you know a decent amount a decent chunk definitely more than the average human better I would say and it's doing pretty well um so it's pretty fascinating to see finally an AI agent uh that is outperforming humans at something that is pretty widely adopted or is done in an entertainment style um pretty cool what do you think David pretty cool uh okay so there were 64 humans and he is in the top 16 and so

he's already proven that he's at least better than average i would really I really want him to go like top four course because like we we need we need like 10x numbers not just like 20% better or 40% better but we need like it needs to beat the crowd a very consistent like in a very consistent way in order for this to really be real so I I really am rooting for him to get like top four that would be crazy and then like my next question is like all right how does Billy Betts scale how do we take Billy Betts to go from just like gambling $10,000 cuz he he in order to enter this bracket he put $10,412 on the line he's currently one back 14,000 so he's already in the he's already in the green but like come on let's let's let's scale this thing let's

give Billy Bess a million dollars and set him loose in Vegas like when does that happen i mean I have an answer for you so uh I caught up with the team during uh ETH Denver and that is exactly the direction they're going in so the structure they're setting up David is there's there's two kind of approaches to this number one they're going to expand beyond basketball so they're going to hit every single league that pops up oh you're in a fantasy football team well guess what now you have an agent that you can kind of like watch observe and maybe mimic or copy bets of right you know I don't know football season ice hockey season whatever pick your sport whatever you can watch on TV Billy Betts is going to be there can I finally enter my friends fantasy football leagues cuz they invite me

every single year and I'm like "Guys I just don't know [ __ ] dude." Exactly can I just like be be the human extension of Billy Bets well here's the thing right one of the major critics or critiques of Ask Billy Bets David is that well I want to bet with Billy and all its bets have been masked it's been hidden right the wallets are hidden um you know they keep switching wallets so that you can't track any of it right so even if like some of the people that do find its wallet you you can't basically track it for more than like a week or so right well one of their second updates which they should be launching pretty soon is you can proxy bet with Billy Bets so you can literally just chuck in a bunch of money into the Billy Bets wallet and it

manages your funds for you and places the same bets for you so I think that milliondoll um agent that's betting with a million dollars is going to happen really soon okay cool that sounds like that is explicitly what is happening yeah that is well you know whatever not financial advice but but that is effectively what they're going to be launching and it's going to get pretty nuts it's going to get pretty crazy um I'm seeing actually two different product lines here i'm seeing the crypto product line which is exactly what you just said like allow the crypto dgens to bet alongside Billy but I think there's also just a regular consumer product line which is I have a seat in a fantasy football tournament yes yes and I would like Billy Betts to

make every single one of my decisions hell yeah but you just don't tell your friends that David i just don't tell my friends that yeah i don't know if that that's not possible right because I don't have access to like Billy Bett's brain but I would I would imagine that I would pay money for that i would pay even if like the pot for my fantasy football league was like $100 i would pay $100 to beat my friend well dude what's really cool about what this team is building is um I presume like when you enter this fantasy football league there are specific betting sites that you need to use right i I would assume yes assume right so this protocol is integrating those betting sites so David has a DraftKings account let's go this is great exactly you basically will be able to give the agent control over the

bets it makes in your name on your draft is going to be if I could just come into my college friends fantasy football league as the as the token person who does not watch football and then just sweep the floor with them that would be I would pay money for that i I'm going to assume that your friends don't really watch these episodes in their entirety friends at least i think that's true i think which is going to be hilarious cuz like all the evidence is here um I mean I mean I want to call out that the the team right now leverages all onchain prediction markets David for all these games it's pretty insane right so when they integrate like normal draft kings and betting platforms just the data and the feedback loop this agent is just going to get smarter and smarter and

smarter and you know what's cooler it's going to recognize your betting patterns or just humans betting patterns across every different sport right you want to bet that it's going to become like one of the smartest bers out there absolutely oh I I I think that's a base case i mean that is it's like having the house make bets for you except now it's open source and decentralized and anyone can chuck in a bag for it to make money for you it's pretty pretty insane yeah very bullish in the wild west of DeFi stability and innovation are everything which is why you should check out FRA Finance the protocol revolutionizing stable coins DeFi and Rolex the core of FRA Finance is FRAXUSD which is backed by Black Rockck's institutional bidd fra designed FRAUSD for best-in-class yields

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wrap this up we got two more subjects olas and VA walk us through what's going on here okay so OLAS let's pull up this tweet like they've or like rather their website um I want I want to give OAS some time okay so OLAS is one of the OG agent protocols they were actually like around when Bitenser was was kind of created and Bitenser for those who don't know was one of the original AI protocols that launched right um effectively OLAS allows you to like build own monetize agents via their open protocol the OLAS network right and there's many types of stakeholders that can exist in this ecosystem like there are operators which are basically the agent builders or deployers of agents uh they are the agents themselves that are a mixture of completely autonomous like

sovereign agents semi-autonomous agents and human autonomous agents the point is there's agents and they service a multitude of different use cases the main one being in Olas's case prediction markets David so you know we've just talked about you know Billy Bets making all these bets via prediction markets then we're talking about this network which has I think around 700 autonomous acting agents right now so they're acting right now making bets and arbitragees across a range of different prediction markets where they can arbitrage information or asymmetry across different betting markets right they also have DeFi agents uh I think one of their main agents is called Baby DGEN which uh helps users transact across different chains but anyway why am I mentioning them now well the reason

why I want to kind of give them some flowers is they're one of the few crypto AI agent protocols out there right now David that are demonstrating consistent live growth of decentralized agents um I've sent you a link to this dashboard can you do you mind pulling it up um I I want to kind of like walk through this so like I mean number one the figure that kind of hits you here is this 5.3 million total service transactions across chains figure and if you look at the chart it's just up and to the right what this is tracking is the cumulative autonomous transactions that their agents are making and as you can imagine as the number of agents that are deployed uh go up so is the number of individual transactions per agent which means that the total transaction volume goes up right um but you also see this

second thing as you scroll down which is 3.5 million mech requests now I I want you to kind of scroll up to the top and there is a definition for mech requests which are there are onchain agent requests for AI tools via the mech marketplace what this is referring to is they have a marketplace David where you can get access to any AI tool or service and they're integrating a bunch of different things here so an example of a service could be uh hey I need to query chat GBT about something and so what it does is it uh an agent pays for a query and someone runs that query to chat GBT and then returns the answer to it and all of this is tracked and embedded on chain so you have agents that are paying

a cryptocurrency fee to get access to these different services or tools to get information so that they can execute on their job better so if you can imagine if it's a betting agent I need an update on how this political election is going or I need an update on what the score is for the basketball game right now or or a particular player's health or stat or whatever and it can get this information and then you know make it it's its kind of action based off of that right which I think is cool um another cool thing that I want to highlight is they're integrated across I think nine different chains at this point um they're most active on Nosis which is where like a lot of the predict prediction markets activity is happening and if you scroll down to activity by service type David

um you'll see where the majority of these transactions are happening now the bulk of it is in this unknown thing which I actually don't know what this constitutes of uh I've reached out to the teams and maybe I can update you guys next week but um realistically uh the other large chunk is coming from trading um which is happening on the prediction markets and then from this mech marketplace which I kind of just spoke about so overall I think AI agents in general really lack informative ways to tell us you know is this thing growing are people using it are people even making these agents and it's happening you know something beyond like defi TVL which we've highlighted across many other episodes or many other

categories right so I just wanted to give Olas its flowers it's been consistently building its token is like in my opinion pretty cheap right now there's you know their tokconomics you know I've given feedback directly to the team um is something that they're actively working on to drive like usage back to like token holders themselves and I think they're making upgrades with v2 of definitely a team to to look out for david and then also Vanna vana is going to be our our last one to talk about the last AI projects oh tell me what's going on with Vanna okay okay so so let's round this up um Vanna for those of you who don't remember is basically a decentralized uh data pool network so what that means is

um when you use a social media site David you don't really own your data it's controlled by the monopoly that owns that company right so Instagram Facebook Google whatever the hell right and VA was created to try and flip that model where users have the option to pull their data from these sites so they could be like Reddit Instagram or whatever and own their own data as like some kind of like CSV file right but there's not much you could really do with that David like why on earth do you want to like own like hold your data in a file on your desktop it's it's kind of weird right um so VA got created to allow users to contribute their data to like within a DAO and this data would be used to either train AI models or be sold to people who wanted to access

personalized data and you would basically get paid for it right and I've noticed a trend within the crypto AI space over the last few weeks where there's a renewed interest and focus on decentralized AI models everything from novel training methods for new models getting access to like uncensored models or leveraging data pools the more niche things huge progress is being made right and with VA specifically they announced this thing called collective one which is basically their model that will be trained on users private data aka not from publicly scraped data which a lot of other protocols do um which is what every other model trained off of is actually trained and you know uses it's like publicly scrapable data but in this

case it's personalized private data like social media like location data like conversational data that you have uh in your chat groups right the valuable stuff that's typically held behind world gardens um and they got this data because you know VA users basically contributed their data and to date they've got tens of millions of these data points spanning across the likes of like Reddit data location um and they've partnered with this decentralized AI training network called Flower Labs to train this model now it's going to be a kind of tiny model David it's 7 billion parameter in models right so it's much smaller than state-of-the-art models who span honestly in the hundreds of billions and you know unofficially trillions for like open AIs however the

advantage I think comes from the data itself one of the major differentiators is how good your model is and data in my opinion determines that so we're going to yet to see this model in action at 7 billion parameters it's going to be able to fit on your phone David so this new model I bet is going to produce something of value that's much larger um of value than what we've seen so far in models so eyes have to be kept on VA yeah I think there there's something here that's like very true to like kind of the core bank bankless ethos of like self- sovereignty as the individual and now we're doing that with data uh data data is like this big line that is drawn between AI companies and even the United States and China where competitive

advantage can come in addition to it many other ways can come from do you have data that your that your comp competition does not uh and that's like a it's a huge source of tension between the United States and China like we don't one country does not want to give access to one's data to the other and then same thing with the AI labs I don't know what is unique about the data that would in theory be contributed to this like userowned data model uh but that would be the theoretical competitive advantage and why people would like pay money to access this data is like the data that's inside of this like differently ly constructed silo is unique and not something you can just

find on the on the on the internet because like all the AI labs consume data from the internet that these like public scrapers go and they scrape every single website for you know for for text and then that all of that's just like publicly available and so uniquely available data I think is a different story and I wonder what kind of value comes from that i I mean I think the best way to think about it is there are like two types of AI models there's the general AI model which helps you do a bunch of generalist things like I don't know you David but if you want to code something up I got you right I don't know if you're a chef David but if you ask me a specific question around a particular type of arugula I'll be able to give you that answer right but in

terms of like specialized personalized experiences the only AI models that can do that are ones that are trained off of personal data and I think this is the first example of like a decentralized approach to allowing that going to be pretty cool yeah there is this category of investment and like innovation out there that's all around alternative databases and database structures uh there was a deal at Bankless Ventures we were looking at forever ago where it was like trying to have line items in a database that were like contributable and uh to specific individuals that that contributed that data in the first place and so whenever that line of data was getting read by something a little like kickback would be sent to the person that contributed that line of data so

there's there's like there's a sector out here of just like how do we make a like open access open contribution data set that uh also gives kickbacks to the people that contributed to it correct i mean I mean like if I had like some kind of push back on this whole model is like how much are they paying for this and how much do you get is it like can't be that much the margins have to be so low yeah so if if that's the case then like is it even worth it like you know me extracting my data and giving it to you i don't know so I I'm yet to see how this might be sustainable like profit-wise but you know we we'll see how it pans out josh that was a lot there was a lot going on there's always

so much going on really thank you thank you a lot my man for helping us walk through the week no super fun dude thanks for having me bank of Station you guys know the deal crypto is risky crypto AI even riskier it can lose what you put in but nonetheless we are headed west this is Frontier it's not for everyone but we are glad you are with us on the bank this journey thanks a lot