The case for Canton Network as institutional blockchain infrastructure

Transcript

Crypto takes a very narrow view of the world. And what I mean by that, it kind of says the world needs to look like this and that's it. Everybody, it's LGD set here and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show that asks a very dangerous question. What if Wall Street actually figured out how to use the blockchain? Today is February 3rd, 2026, and for years crypto promised to eat Wall Street, but instead Wall Street mostly ignored crypto. It was too public, too messy, and too risky. But quietly, over more than a decade, a different version of the blockchain has been built. One designed for privacy, compliance, and actual institutions.

Today, that system is set to move trillions of dollars on chain in the next couple years with names like JP Morgan and DTCC already on board. Joining me today is Yuval Ruse, founder and CEO of Digital Asset, the parent company of the Canton Network, which is one of the only green tokens in the last couple weeks, if you can believe it. and I've been so curious about what the heck is going on over there that we needed to have him on the show and explain to us what's going on behind the scenes. Today's episode is brought to you by Sum. Turn cryptot tax chaos into confidence and bridge send stablecoin payments instantly. Simple, global, and frictionfree.

Yuvall, welcome to the show, man. >> Great to be here, LG. >> Okay, so tell me, let's just dive right into it. Okay, Kanton is one of the big question marks for me. One of the things I don't understand. I ask a lot of our guests about it and they they mainly just tell me behind the scenes like, listen, just get you all on get him on here to explain it. you've all it very quickly and easy to understand for people like me. What exactly is Canton and what what problem are you solving for these institutions that's making them sign on with you? >> Sure. So you maybe maybe we should start from um a point you made in your introduction which I think we'll we'll probably disc you know discuss in more detail later on which is you said Canton has been the only thing that has been green for you

know the last week or so and you know maybe another one that is worth highlighting is hyperlquid and and you know what's what's what's unique about the two things which is I think that one of the things that I found very compelling when I got into this space a long time ago was this idea that crypto pitched itself as a way for everybody to own a piece of infrastructure that actually generates utility for the world. And the reality is that I think that you know us as an industry have done a lot of great things in terms of proliferating the technology explaining why this technology is important. But when you end up thinking about most of the tokens that have been launched or

the ones that are already still in existence, you know, not a lot of value gets accured to the token holders. And you know for us one important thing and we'll talk about how we did that was to make sure that whatever success we have on Canton whatever utility we drive on Canton that value needs to mechanically flow down to the the token holders. Now I think that to to your specific question about what is Canton? Well, I think that the way I think about blockchain is the idea of blockchain is the ability to represent assets natively on chain. As a result of that, those assets have higher velocity. We talk a

lot about, you know, stable coins, the ability to move US dollars 247 in real time all over the world. That is velocity. Another component of blockchain that is critical is composability. It's the ability to embed and settle an asset against another asset atomically without any settlement risk. Again, 247 real time. And those few things have got people really excited about crypto. You know, the the idea of of asset mobility got people excited. I can now send value all over the world 247. The idea of composability created DeFi. I can pledge a token, get a loan. I can swap two

assets uh on a on a DEX. Those are are examples of composability. And when you end up thinking about that in the in the context of of the real world, those are actually two really important problems to solve. As we know today in traditional system, you can't really move money uh as efficiently. Although you know you would you know you can stream movies you could do a lot of things very sophisticated it's still seems that assets are have some friction associated with them especially when you start crossing borders you know we use the term in financial services DVP or PVP delivery versus payment or payment versus payment [snorts] and inherently people think about those uh terms as as

if those two things happen automically they never do meaning uh there's always settlement risks trade breaks and things like that that still happen in very large quantities uh in today's world. So those those two features are uh extremely important. The problem is that one thing that crypto has neglected is privacy. So as we all know today every account in crypto is pseudo anonymous. we can all kind of see and and when you actually look at some of the uh intelligence offering on on crypto rails they really know who holds what at any given point of time. I would say that

the the government agencies are some of the biggest users of said companies and they really know you know who who who does what at any given point of time. And as a result of that when you end up you know talking about well what would it take to get institutional adoption when you end up you know having the conversations with global treasures or I mean treasures of publicly traded companies when you talk about different managers of different business functions. What you find out is they say well you know asset mobility or asset composability are really really important things for us but if that means that the rest of the world would know what we do on what we do from a

financial perspective no thank you we we'll take the friction you know so really what we've done when we launched Canton and we'll talk about some other things was really the ability how do I bring privacy onchain and we should not mistaken that for anonymity. So privacy to us is the ability for people that should know about a transaction to see the transaction and those that shouldn't know about the transaction not to see it. And as a result of that, you said regulatory or compliant. If you have any kind of regulatory requirement to meet your compliance standards, you should be able to see kind of all the transactions that

you were involved or should be able to monitor. Um, so that's that's really at a high level one of the most important thing we saw at Canton, but there's some other features that are not necessarily technical in nature in nature. >> Everything you're listening to today is also covered in our daily crypto newsletter and on Sundays we even recap the best parts of the entire week's worth podcast. So check it out at the link below. >> So is this okay? [clears throat] So you're describing to me a a pretty standard like DeFi protocol but with privacy built in, right? And that's like largely I guess your your your competitive advantage here when you're chatting with these institutions and and and pitching to them that they should be moving their trillions of dollars on can instead of other layer ones or L2s or

anything like that is that they don't need to worry about privacy. It's built in and it's tailor made, right? Is that they can kind of customize it as they need on Canton. Tell me a little bit more about that because that sounds like something that's I mean obviously pretty attractive for them. >> Sure. the the the problem and and I say that too many times but I will say it again is that crypto takes a very narrow view of the world and what I mean by that it kind of says the world needs to look like this and that's it doesn't allow for heterogeneous kind of approach meaning the chain has one privacy model one access model and if you build a smart contract on it you have to kind of figure out how to work within those

constraints. And you know, I think that if you were to take the radical side of the o the opposite, meaning everything is permissioned, everything is private. Well, that's also not a good model. I I give an example a lot of times. I talk about the NASDAQ tape, right? You see all the transactions that happen on NASDAQ and you go, "Wow, there's a lot that is happening here, but you don't know who's generating that activity." So there's a lot of value for what I would say permissionless information where everybody should have access to that information from an advertising perspective, from a credibility perspective. There's a lot of reasons why you would want certain things not to be private. And then there's a lot of things that where you would want them to

be private. Like if I have PII, personal identifying information, well, I would probably want that to be private. If I do transaction on a stable coin, maybe I want the notion all of those transactions to be public permissionless, meaning everybody should see kind of like that NASDAQ example, all the transactions. So, so we don't have this kind of narrow view of the world. We actually think the world, you know, has all shades of gray in it for many different reasons. A lot of times people will associate it with regulation and compliance. I actually also think that there's business models that want to have different shades of gray from a business model perspective. like I can be a completely unregulated business and

I would want certain parts of my business to be completely public permissionless and then maybe I would want to have some features that are private permissioned like I and I'm not I I I don't have necessarily concrete example but what's unique about Canton is that the chain does not dictate to the applications that run on it what should be their worldview. which actually allows for quite a lot of customization at the smart contract level. >> So what so when you we see that there are names like JP Morgan and DTCC signing on to Canton like what are they what are they coming on to build exactly like what what is DTCC's like plan and which parts of it are they using like

how does that work? Are they building a separate chain with Canton technology? Are they building directly on Canton? Just just take us through that like the onboarding process for these these massive companies. So just maybe for for the sake of your audience. So DTCC is um uh central securities depository. Um they run a clearing house. So they clear transactions. They they uh uh they're also a registry for they own a trust and today they house roughly hundred trillion dollars worth of assets uh all the way from treasuries, US equities, US municipal bonds and US corporate bonds.

And you know they they recently received a no action relief from the SEC to tokenize their assets and they chose Canton as the first chain to to launch on. I'm not you know we don't have an exclusivity with them and >> eventually they would probably um uh launch on other chains but currently what they have communicated this Canton is first. So they are building on Canton and really what they're doing is no different than how you should think about like a stable coin issuer. They're introducing an asset class which is currently housed under legacy system.

They're allowing that now to be represented on Canton. So if you wanted to uh let's say um trade US treasuries against stable coins now you could do that without having some kind of a wrapper which is currently what you're seeing on on most chains. actually the token would be the equivalent of holding uh a US treasury at the DTCC. Now you'll be able to hold it on Canton and there's a whole slew of different applications that are coming to production which will allow you to take advantage of the fact that you have um you know US treasuries and hopefully later on other asset classes.

>> Got it. So what we would see when we're seeing like the tokenization of something let's say actually maybe you can disambiguate for this for for me as well because you know one of the big headlines last week and this is this is very different than somewhat different than the DTCC. One of the big headlines last week as as gold and silver popped off is how hyperlid uh you know two two or 3% of the volume on silver globally was on hyperlquid on like Thursday or Friday when it popped off and it came back down. Is that asset just a tokenized version? Is that just a wrapper of silver? That is okay. So it's similar to what Canton would do in terms of like it's it's directly >> Hyperlid is uh a pure derivative. It's

actually has no tying to the underlying. Hyperlid uh is very similar to a future contract. You're effectively predicting, gambling, however you want to put it. you're taking a directional uh uh trade >> saying [clears throat] where the price will be in the future. The the reason why having tokenized tokenized underlying is very valuable even for derivatives is because when you trade derivatives, one of the things that you need and and Hyperlquid is currently only taking um collateral in the form of cash. But generally speaking, when you when you trade derivatives, you need to

pledge collateral. And in the the the world of collateral, usually you would have what you call initial margin, which is the initial amount that you post when you put the trade. And then there would be what you call variation margin. So as the asset moves in value from the point you put the trade, you would either receive variation margin if the trade went in your way or you would give additional variation margin in case the trade goes away from you. And a lot of times in traditional markets and I think eventually will probably happen in hyperlquid you should be able to post the underlying asset as your initial

collateral because it's actually kind of it's perfectly correlated with the derivative. So imagine if you bought a per on Bitcoin a good a good collateral would be Bitcoin or if you did you know ETH per it would be ETH. And if you did silver, it would be silver. The problem is that today there's no good mechanism to deliver these assets with the quality that you would expect. So now imagine if there were pers on US treasuries, you could actually deliver the underlying US treasuries as collateral against your you know per trading on on US treasuries. And in the US, you could actually deliver US treasuries as collateral. And that's why actually

having the the underlying as in tokenized form is a very good use case and opportunity to make uh derivatives markets more efficient. >> Crypto taxes are a nightmare. You've got trades across 15 exchanges, DeFi positions, you forgot about, NFT flips, staking rewards, [music] airdrops, and somehow you're supposed to report all of this to the IRS. Good luck. Cue the solution. SUM. You may know it by its old name, crypto tax calculator. The Sum platform connects to over 3,500 exchanges, wallets, and crypto projects, including full support for DeFi, [music] NFT staking, and airdrops. It finds deductions you'd miss, reconciles massive transaction histories without losing track, and generates IRS ready reports that will help you pay the least

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Bridge lets companies send, store, accept, and even launch their own stable coins instantly. Seamless fiat to stable coin flows, control over reserves and rewards, and full interoperability across every bridge issued token. No more patching payment rails, no more monthslong launches. Visit milkroad.com/bridge [music] to see how it works. Right. So then that that is what so just going to bring this back to Canton. So when it comes to the stuff like everything that the DCCC houses, that's what you guys are doing is essentially relaying it directly back to the asset.

I guess maybe not as the collateral because it's not necessarily all loans, but that is the kind of the advantage of what Canton does is that the assets are more or less legit in terms of not being some other form. It's it's directly tied to what the asset is. Right. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um Okay, that's helpful. That's I'm learning a lot here. So this is this is very helpful. Um there is one thing actually I wanted to ask you as well. What's the adoption look like on this Yuval? What is like the speed? Because it does feel like at this point in time, especially the last couple weeks, the last couple months as as crypto chops, it does feel like we're really full steam ahead in terms of fight coming on chain, right? And you guys are right at the forefront of it. We see in the

headlines all the time. What what does that actually look like in a year or two, right? Because right now, if we go and we look at the RWA, what's actually on chain? you got there's Broadidge that's on Canton with like uh 100 billion 200 billion 300 billion assets clearly JP Morgan DCCCC is something that's going to come down the pipeline if I look back in a couple years are we looking 10 trillion assets on on Canton are we are there 10 trillion assets on ETH like what does that look like for you in the next couple years >> I'm not going to speak for for ETH even though I I have a lot of respect for it I'll talk to what what we are working on and what we can not necessarily control but have more influence So I think that a lot of times people

also think that Canton came out of nowhere. >> It was a deliberate strategy talking less doing more and then when the time is right to actually kind of lift the curtain. I think that again this industry have done more talking than doing. It's not it's not to it's not to overcast the doing because there have been a lot of doing but I would say that the amount of talking have been even greater and that at the end of the day I think I always think of humans as we were relative creatures. We always measure the value of something relative to our expectations. So something could be actually quite impressive, but if I if I talked about it as if it's going to be a 100x more impressive than what was

actually delivered, you're like, uh, it's actually not that great. And and I think that we we as a result of that, you know, we've been we started the company 11 years ago. We've been building quietly. Uh, Canton was launched as a fair launch two years ago, but we knew what was in the pipeline. We knew all of those relationships, all of these applications that we were building. And we waited for a point in time where we thought there's enough gravitational force here that we don't need to now come out and say, "Hey, let let me talk." Like I didn't want to have a podcast like this two years ago where

I say, "LG, I'm telling you, we've built the best thing in the world and it's going to do XYZ and I have nothing to stand on. >> It's purely future tense. I much rather be able to talk about things in present tense or even past tense and to say you don't have to trust my word for it. Just go and talk to all of the people that are participating." So that's first of all, it's not that Canton came out of nowhere. it's been deliberately taken to market in a way that it's better in our opinion to talk about things that are being done or have been done rather than you know again making promises to the future. So that's just one anecdotal point. Where are we in a few years? I I actually think that $10 trillion is too

small of a number >> and I'm not I'm not going to make necessarily a prediction but try to explain to people we do like now we Broadidge who deserve all the credit do you know anywhere between three to 400 even over 400 billion dollars of repo every day and in the crypto ecosystem that seems like a very large number right to you it also sounds I assume like a large number it's a tiny number Yeah, >> it's a tiny number. It's it's an I wouldn't say it's negligible, but it's tiny in the sense that on a daily volume perspective, repo trades about $10.5 trillion every single day volume.

So, we don't even do 5% of it yet, right? So I think that what we're trying to reorient the the crypto community to understand that billions is not the right measurement. Uh the DTCC processes quadrillions a year. Um 10 trillion I think is just not enough. So I think we're we're going to see much higher number than that. >> Got it. Okay, that makes sense. While we're on that topic, I do want to bring up this is this is the main kind of chart I was looking at when when uh I was learning more about you guys is just going to rwa.com orxyz and looking at the actual like total tokenized assets, right? And or what which um which

networks have the most tokenized assets, right? So you guys are way ahead of anybody else here and most of that is from this broadidge um >> use >> one use case. Exactly. You guys only have one, I guess. I I don't know if you call them clients or partners or just people using the chain. Um, but there's only one on here and the other day this number was at 300 billion. So, I'm assuming obviously as repo loans, they kind of fluctuate. Maybe you can tell me really quick. Uh, Ival as clearly this is kind of like the first ones to show up. What what exactly does Broadidge do and what what is this repo stuff that is onchain? What is what are their repos?

Um, explain that for us so I understand. >> Yeah. Yeah. So first of all, one of the challenges with privacy is that you have to convince your partners that it's a good thing to disclose what they do and what is their activity. That's the negative thing about privacy. >> So Broadidge was the first and I think you're going to see more players um start actually uh showcasing the numbers of their uh volume and activity and what exactly they do. Specifically, Broadidge. For those that don't know, Broadidge is a publicly traded company.

I don't know if their valuation is somewhere between 30 to$40 billion if I'm not mistaken. They have two sides of the business. One is what you would call the market side. One you would call uh investor communications. If you ever received the envelope to do a proxy vote or some investor communication, it's north of 90% chance that Broadidge have delivered that to you. Um so that's that's a big part of their business. And then the second part of their business is uh in the markets they actually run uh a lot of the fixed income uh back office middle office for a lot of the financial players. It's a it's a very large number north of 50% of

the US market from the broker side uh runs through Broadidge. So that's who Broadidge is and uh Broadidge um is has been one of the super validators. They've been supporting the network from day one. Uh they sit on the board of the foundation and one of the things that they wanted to solve is the ability again of collateral movements. So similar to stable coin movements, collateral movements and make that more efficient. Now, repo is just a specific financial product that is used a lot of times to finance your balance sheet. So, there are all kinds of requirements by regulators all over the world. How much

cash you need to have on your balance sheet at any any given point of time based on the size of your balance sheet, the size of your positions, all kinds of rules. Uh, after the financial crisis, it's called the BOS Basel 3. There's >> you know uninteresting thing but at at the end of the day the way you do repo is you say to to your counterparty hey listen I need some cash right now what I'll do is I'll give you some US treasuries and I'll borrow the cash and there's kind of like it's think about it as a super short short-term loan >> it's usually overnight and it could be then extended and you could do that internally meaning between your legal

entities. So if you have the UK legal entity and the US legal entity, the US legal entity needs more cash. So you will borrow cash from the UK entity and we'll give them treasuries and vice versa. And you could also do it across counterparties. So bank A to bank B. And like I said, that that that product does about $10.5 trillion dollar notional every single day. So what Broadidge did is they said well if we tokenize US treasuries we can actually so specifically out of that 10 a.5 trillion again give or take 5 to 5 1.5 trillion [snorts] is only due to US treasuries.

So a big part of of the market pretty much 50% is only in the US. So Broadidge decided to tokenize US treasuries. I can't remember how many clients they have, but really what these clients are doing is they're doing this US Treasury repo in a much more efficient way on Canton. And you know the numbers if if again you put the the screen that you shared, you see it's it's one use case, one asset class which is US treasuries, >> but you see the the the count. So they've they've done effectively on the day that you're seeing they've done 4,200 repo trades. um during that day.

>> Geez. Oh my god, man. Okay. Okay, we're getting a good picture of what this looks like. I think the the big question probably um for me and probably what a lot of people are wondering too because we haven't chatted about it at all and you said we would chat about it is um the token right the token for Canton and and how that functions in your ecosystem because I think that's something I've been curious about is you know you're building this infrastructure you're convincing the institutions to come on you're build it's something that they can tailor for themselves why is there a token and what does it do >> yeah so so I think that I think that again the reason the reason that we got into crypto is this idea that um people

can own shared infrastructure and it's no different I sometimes give the analogy that to me public chains is the equivalent of having like a distributed cloud company that's really you're you're you're effectively delivering like a compute network that is not controlled by one legal entity and people can access that uh cloud infrastructure and and build application and interoperate with one another. So that's why we we we really like crypto. Um I think that the the challenge that the industry have had is well how you know at least at least what you could say is that like when a cloud company generates revenue you assume that if revenues exceed

expenses and the company is profitable the share price of cloud company goes up and therefore shareholders you know benefit from the success of of that company. I think that in a lot of L1s, and I'm not going to use names, there is no actually clear connectivity between the token and the activity on said network. >> And therefore, I think that a lot of these tokens have just been pure speculation, even though there's no clear mechanics of how the thing should appreciate. So, we did a fair launch. We started at zero. We didn't do a premine. We didn't sell tokens. We didn't do an ICO. We do

defer a launch. And really there are three types of players that can participate in the Canton ecosystem. We call them super validators, the validators, and the apps. And the super validators are kind of think about them like the full nodes. They run the consensus on Canton. Again, you cannot buy your way into being a super validator. You have to contribute value to the network. So you anybody LG you could be a super validator if you write a compelling enough proposal to the list of I think now it's 40 plus super validators and why you can add tremendous amount of value to the network. So if you believe that you could do that, write a proposal, submit it. If twothirds of the superv

validators vote in favor, you're a super validator. You run now, you run consensus, and there's all kinds of slashing if you don't perform your task. But at the end of the day, we felt that that's actually a much more fair access than just pledging money. And it's actually much more valuable to the network than just staking because at the end of the day every super validator have contributed blood, sweat and equity into the network rather than money. And I actually think that the effort of people in today's world when everybody's busy all over the place is much more valuable than just money. A lot of people have money. At the end of the day, we need to build utility and build a utility requires a lot of third

parties to actually do things. Um, but that being said, I think that on Canton, the infrastructure provider, those that run the consensus actually get the smallest part of the economics. And the reason is that because again, we view that at the end of the day, those that generate value for the network are the applications and the users. Meaning I can have I could have built the best technology on earth like let's just say objectively speaking if we could actually decide this is the best technology in the world but if I haven't convinced people to build on it and use it it's worthless >> right put it in a museum of some science and technology and that's its all only value right it doesn't have more value

other than that and I think that there is a lot of L1's that fit that category impressive technology haven't done a good go market and therefore don't have any usage. >> So you know so so for us most of the economics go to the applications and the users by generating fees and what does that mean? So there is a mint schedule and the mint schedule allocates a portion of the mint to the super validator a portion of the mint to the validators and a portion of the mint to the apps where the validators and the apps get the lion share 80% of the economics.

Now how do you calculate who gets what? And the and the the design is by burning tokens. So anytime you want to participate on Canton, you have to burn tokens. You have to make [snorts] tokens pulled out of circulation. And the idea is that if utility [snorts] exceeds, you know, inflation, then the token supply goes down. And if the token supply goes down, generally speaking, you would assume that the price goes up. Again, there's nothing that mandates it, but at least there's some kind of like a logical mechanism that says if you keep on driving utility through the network, meaning the actual

dollar fees on the network keeps on going up over time, you should assume that that more and more tokens are being burned. If more and more tokens are being burned, less tokens in circulation, right, you should expect the price to go up. If the utility on the network does not exceed inflation, right, you would assume that eventually over time this would be inflationary. And when things are inflationary, you expect prices to just go down. And that's why I think that you know I think that Canton is probably the only one out there that have created a mechanical way of saying if we're successful and go to market.

>> This doesn't have to be a purely speculative asset. It should actually have some you know fundamentals associated with it. Whether it's a discount cash flow model with some kind of a multiple that would put some of a valuation on the network. And you know, a lot of people today talk about token buybacks and things like that. I actually think that having something mechanical built in is a healthier thing because again, I think of token buybacks is more of an intervention that is not programmatic. It's kind of like, oh, bad news, you know, people don't like us. Okay, let's announce a dividend, which is the equivalent of a token buyback, right?

Hey, let's please the people right now and then once they're pleased, we don't have to do it again. So we think that actually having something mechanical built into the protocol is much more uh valuable than again a non-programmatic thing to do. >> Got it. So then how does revenue work for you guys then? >> So the revenue is really again it's it's the fees that you have to burn on the network. So if you want to participate you have for every transaction on the network you have to burn fees >> and the fees are denominated in US dollar. Again, you asked about Trafi.

The fees are denominated in US dollar. Meaning >> the same transaction is always going to cost you the same in US dollars. >> If the coin is now 10x >> higher, then you just per uh burn 10x less coins because you always pay the same amount in US dollar, >> right? >> And therefore, if the coin just pumps without utility catching up, then you're actually burning less and less coins because utility stayed the same. And then you expect at some point this will correct because it it kind of got disconnected from >> from fundamentals too much.

>> So is this so is this designed to basically reduce volatility and directly and for the for the token to directly reflect the activity on the network? Like is that kind of what you're explaining to me to kind of summarize it? I'm trying to wrap my head around it. >> Um I think the latter is correct. There should be a much stronger relationship which is what I was saying between the value of the network and activity on the network. volatility. I'm not I'm not because again at the end of the day the price can disconnect from fundamentals but there is no a a built-in function that will say at some point fundamentals will kick back in because you're going to have like the the higher the price

goes again if you think about utility stays constant the higher the price of the token goes actually the burn of tokens goes down because I'm I'm still spending the same amount of US dollars But now I need to pay less and less coins because the value of the coin is higher. So if if if if utility doesn't catch up to the price of the token at some point someone will go say wow this network is so inflationary then the price will will kind of go down. So I don't want to say the the point about volatility because volatility can still kind of like happen around the mean, right? But the idea is that long term when you look at the volatility around the the trending

graph, you should see a correlation with the underlying value of the network. >> Got it. Okay. Okay, that makes sense. And is the token is the token listed anywhere? I'm just wondering where people if people wanted to have access to it where they could. >> Yeah, it's listed on a few places. So you could trade it on chain. There's there's a few dexes on chain. It's I think listed on on Kraken, uh, Bybit, Gate, uh, Mexi and a few others. A lot of times people ask us what uh, why is it not listed on other large exchanges? We definitely want it to be listed, but I think that the way I would answer that question is the first and most important priority for us are the token holders.

And that's always what we think about when we think about these things. >> Yeah, absolutely. And even even something like Hyperlid took them a long took a long time for for the large exchanges to to finally list them. So, uh maybe in time, but I like the explanation. Um you'll probably wrap up there. Thank you for coming on, man. I you've explained a lot. It's a lot for me to process. Um but it's it it also helped answer a lot of questions. So, thank you. Um and best of luck as you guys you guys get those trillions on chain, man. That's going to be a wild number to watch in the next couple years. >> Thank you so [music] much. This was awesome.

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