Can a stablecoin bring a billion users? PayPal's PYUSD story

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milk Road show The Daily crypto show that's as smooth as a freshly paved Road I'm your host Jay Hamilton and today we're joined by Neil D Silva former CFO of PayPal digital currencies and remittances and one of the creators of PayPal stablecoin PUSD in today's thought-provoking episode we'll talk about PayPal's crypto strategy now and in the future why they decided to launch a stable coin and why they chose salana we'll also touch on how regulation is holding back PayPal and other players in the space and we'll zoom out and look at activity from MasterCard Black Rock stripe and other major fintech and finance operations and

see where this is all headed in the future now before we jump in I have a very important announcement for our listeners and viewers as of today we are switching our publishing time from 9:00 a.m. EST to 300 p.m. EST now don't worry you'll still receive your daily dose of alpha it'll just be a few hours later in the day before we jump into today's episode and here all from Neil let's just take a minute to hear from our fantastic sponsors over at kelp Dow get ready because your reward farming game is about to level up introducing gain powered by kelp your dgen cierge gain is an automated Vault launched by kelp that

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for yourself today just head over to milro docomo Welcome to the milk Road Show and great to be here it's fantastic to have you now I want to start by giving everybody a little bit of a history lesson uh because PayPal's been operating in the crypto space for a while it started when PayPal first allowed their users four over 400 million users to purchase Bitcoin and ethereum within PayPal and then PayPal started to allow people to actually onramp and off-ramp that crypto and then you launched your own stable coin first on ethereum and then on salana and then even most recently PayPal integrated

with ens I believe it was just last week so it's been quite a journey over the past I believe it all started about four four or five years ago walk us through the maybe the short version of PayPal's crypto Journey what were those early meetings like why did PayPal decide to build in crypto yeah I think uh kind of the right question I think you know ultimately PayPal is customer obsessed and so when we think about and I should say the team thought about PayPal and where it could be over the last several years in crypto it really was about how do you make payment more affordable how do you make payments faster and ultimately how do you drive Global inclusion for people that are

today outside of the financial system and so many of those early meetings really amount to when you're thinking about Innovation at a large company this is true at any large company it is about how are you going to move into a space and how are you going to ultimately learn about it quickly you know I've been a Founder in my career and spend a lot of time with startups and investing into startups as well and it really comes down to the best way to do things is learning by doing and that action produces information and so you went through the history J you know of where we've been in this phase and it really was let's start with a retail business where we could onboard millions of users

and familiarize themselves with it but like likewise familiarize ourself what would it take to host a crypto business in that way and also critically and maybe a corrective as well I don't think a regulation is holding back companies I think of it as enabling it like you know Regulators have a very key role so if we want to drive to a billion monthly active users in crypto Regulators legislators users companies you know all will play this role together and so that's how we thought about it at uh at the company yeah and I think very few companies are better positioned to get us to a billion active users than PayPal which already has almost half a billion

active users right now now if we I know you're no longer at PayPal and your in the middle of your next move and but if you could share with us what is PayPal's overall Vision within crypto what's the Strategic direction that they're headed in yeah listen I think that the CEO of PayPal has been very clear as as the leadership team you know at both kind of in media and various conferences that ultimately it's about Innovation the payments rails of uh the industry are you know at this point about 25 years old it's been a very constant system and that's allowed some great things over the last you know several decades and

PayPal was really there since the beginning of you know online and e-commerce so the vision ultimately which is really distilled in the stable coin is how do do you take where payments rails are today which is kind of replete with many intermediaries and many inefficiencies and again by using blockchain how do you make it faster how do you make it more affordable and then in that way how do you let it not just exist within PayPal and venmo it's current to Consumer apps but also it is an open loop stable coin which is to say users outside of that set of tools can have high brand trust that if they

put a dollar into the stable coin that they will be able to redeem a dollar out of it and so the vision really is how do you take forward the industry over the next five to 10 to 15 years and by using these new technologies which are the Breakthrough in payments and financial services how do you bring about just a much more efficient and inclusive system so that's really the the vision it's been very consistently you know stated over the last two plus years of where these things can take us and I would say to that end too what is quite compelling and exciting is seeing other large companies whether that's black rock whether that's JP Morgan whether that's

strip also similarly understand now the value and promise of blockchain it's just a a clearly a technological breakthrough and how to apply it to traditional payments of financial services yeah it seems so obvious to those of us that are in the space and I I assume everyone else will catch up when I was prepping for this episode I had two sort of thoughts on where I thought PayPal could go one was what I'm going to pull up on screen right here and shout out to our friends over at bankless for being The Originators of the defi mullet and that's fintech in the front and defi in the back and PayPal is positioned better than maybe anybody being one of the

leading ftech companies to operate this plan to basically bring crypto rails and bring blockchain to the world without them really even knowing that they're using blockchain so that's one direction that I could see PayPal going and focusing more on you maybe being a larger exchange allowing people to borrow and lend corrupto assets but doing it through PayPal's like incredible ux which is Superior to most of the ux that we are currently using on chain or the other direction I could see PayPal going is I could see them going more the base Direction and developing an L2 and

becoming an ecosystem any insights on is there one or the other that is a focus for PayPal in the long term yeah I think that the way to think about companies like this is that you innovate and and and really The Innovation you know for large companies is to launch something in a way that is scalable and robust for hundreds of millions of users so there's lots of levels of innovation including the original zero to one movement but the other one is scale the other one is how do you take things and really put it in a global you know context and so to that end when you talk about kind of the different routes that the company can go

in I think the best way to think about it is simply that you're really when you do these kind of Innovations you're trying to enter the flow of kind of Rapid Evolution and so you know I certainly like mullets and I've worn ones before in my personal life uh way you know I'm I'm more cap photo of that yeah I think they've all been burned or destroyed uh but uh what I would say is I think the central Insight you had is a really important one consumers don't care and nor should today about what's happening in the back end right so whether that's done by CI whether that's done by defi whether that's done by kind of large banking Partners those

movements of value can occur in lots of different ways from in a different Spectrum uh using blockchain Technologies from kind of pure decentralized blockchain to hybrid uh versions of it what matters is the trust the predictability and ultimately then the value right so when you think about working backwards from the customer it is will this customer get faster Solutions will they be able to move money you know in a crossborder way you know in a higher trust way and will they ultimately see that come through and more affordable fees right so I think that really this is still such early days right so much like Bitcoin I think

was the first killer app of blockchain stable coins is the second and so so you know tether right now is obviously very used offshore in crypto trading circle is used fundamentally still encrypto trading this move now to payments that's where you need to engage developers and developer developer ecosystems so py USD you know has uh already kicked that off that's one reason that certainly I was a champion uh among others of salana is that they are to and team is a great and compelling team and they have a real developer ecosystem around them and so I think to just answer that that question in brief I think it can go in several

different ways and it's about letting the stable coin be pulled in a very kind of thoughtful way to where the use is and where it's going to be the last thing to say is this and that's why I mentioned that comment about Regulators this all has to be done in a very thoughtful way not only to maintain the company's brand trust right and that's true for any large company but also to do it in a way that makes sense to the people that really have to look after and think about the Public's benefit right and so that's why I think regulators and making sure that they're familiar and comfortable along the way is so key and I think you know last thing I'll just say on that I think that the US has made great progress in the

last several years I know that there's kind of a narrative out there that I don't particularly subscribe to but I think that the US has allowed for tremendous amounts of innovation and there's a reason why all the largest tech companies are in the US so the US is a great enabler Innovation I think all of us in the industry can continue to ask for kind of continued forward thinking but they've displayed that already and I think there's great progress in in Europe there's great progress you know in other GEOS as well but that's where I think we to answer your question where this could take us is several different directions and it's about being ready to do that in a methodical way you bring up a point there which sort of leads into my next

question which is when you think about the usage of py USD the PayPal stable coin it brings up the question of really like why did PayPal decide to launch a stable coin I think everybody was very excited when PayPal launched a stable coin it was okay wow we have a major fintech that is doing something that we've seen usdc and usdt do successfully I'm sure there was many reasons for for but I see two very obvious ones one is you know was PayPal sitting there and saying oh my gosh tether's making billions in profit like this is a massive profit opportunity but also there is large operational costs to be

saved under the hood by using blockchain rails and by using a stable coin and as you said you could pass those on to the user by reducing their fees you could pass them on to the merchant there's so much you could do that what was the initial major reasons for wanting to launch the stable coin yeah no I think a really great question and it lets us kind of clear up a misconception about Stables generally you know you had had William you know one of the co-founders of teon the other week and he said it as well something for everyone to understand when all of us were pushing forward with Stables over the last several years the yield curve wasn't where it is currently right so even when

tether started off it was not making windfall profits because that's not where rates were and so therefore when we all started you know whether that's tether whether that's you know Jeremy at Circle whether that's then you know bringing that into the mainstream at the company the thing to understand is it wasn't yield because that wasn't where it was at that point it was quite modest compared to the rates of today the other side is this and this is just something I've learned as an entrepreneur it's good to focus on strategy it's good to focus on being a public company it's good to focus on profit you ultimately have to start with the user if you focus and laser focus in fact on consumers and

users and what value you're generating for them everything follows from there and so to that point J you've said it exactly right what do Stables allow large financial services companies to do asset managers payments companies it allows these companies to serve their users with a technology that allows movements of value that are much faster and time is money much faster with less intermediary steps and more finality and certainty create savings that allow you then to pass that back to users an example of that is crossb right so if you today are wiring funds from Miami to medine okay that and you're sending it

to your uncle there the bottom line is in the back ground that's still going to take three days for that money to move even today now let me step back for a moment that's still a miracle I don't want to Discount 50 years of progress that's still amazing right but in the background that's how long it takes if you think about stables and you also think about imagining kind of rolling that forward where you have Banks and regulators and everyone along the chain comfortable that will be able to take place in 2 to 3 minutes minutes going forward right what happens when you can allow for that dramatic increase in speed which makes it cheaper as well that's really the value creation that

we're talking about because it lets you serve customers and it lets you serve them in a way that's quicker and more affordable to everyone involved so it's really the second rates are a great thing that lets you generate profit along the way to innovate that's a great thing but it's certainly not the end destination I want to touch on later to kind of circle back as to what are the possible things that you might you might be able to do in the future as a result of using uh stable coin like PUSD but first I just want to ask why salana so you first launched a stable coin on ethereum which made a ton of sense and then you chose to launch on salana as well and I found that a very interesting

decision because if I sit back and I look at the landscape usdt and usdc are very much established on a ethereum but salana doesn't really have a dominant stable coin yet USD and usdc are there as well as YC or EU RC I never know how to say that one but there seems to be an opportunity on salana that doesn't exist maybe as much on ethereum or on other chains what was the reason for decide for deciding to pixel on and focus there yes so I mean uh certainly from our side was so when I was at at payp we thought highly of the salana team right including their commitment to Innovation

but also ultimately if you think about the Innovation their commitment to speed right their transactional throughput and so beyond seeing a team that was Innovative Beyond seeing a team that was really tailor building their chain towards high throughput transactional volume and velocity you also saw a team that had developed or rather facilitated a great and robust developer ecosystem so in answer to your question I think really if I think about and again you know tether and circle have played critical roles in the industry today if I think about it today and this might not be entirely fair but I mean it in the most generous sense I think

fundamentally still to this day they are enablers of crypto trading right and so therefore that's not a surprise to me it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but they would be cutting quite strong in ethereum that's very different and that gets to that what we're talking about kind of just very briefly at the front what is the big task of crypto today is to move from hodlers and to move from traders to actually daily use of crypto and what is daily use daily use is payments right it's people in the background they don't need to think to themselves I need a stable coin all they need to think is this app is M making it

easier in my life right I can do things that I wasn't able to do before and so I think that salana and other chains that are really focused on high transaction volume low transaction fees that's going to allow for daily life versus kind of the bigger blocks and chunkiness and lumpiness that you can get by on with in the trading environment does that answer make sense yeah completely and I think what's so true but what you're saying is payments is the big thing I mean really if you you look back at satoshi's white paper payments was the initial idea for Bitcoin now obviously Bitcoin has not become payments and should never be

payments it's a fantastic short of value is as you said it was the first winning home run use case in crypto but stable coins thankfully came along and said okay we're actually going to solve the payments problem we'll let Bitcoin be stor of and stable coins are definitely going to solve that it's just it's going to take time as you're saying because we have to bring so many users on board what are the things that need to happen in order for us to get to that point where we do have a billion people you know sending money to their Uncle overseas or doing whatever whether it be remittances or

whether it just be buying coffee I guess how long do you think we are from that realistically I love the question because I think that one of the most compelling things about crypto and blockchain is that we can actually see that there has been progress over five years over 10 years over you know near 15 years right and that's a great thing to actually see that not only does it have a you know trillion dollar plus kind of market cap and now even beyond that but that it's being used in new ways right I think that there has been this record of progress It's not a fad right it's a and if it is a fad you know very few fats last 15 years and so when

I think about the future I think the thing to think about is this is a sea change that this is going to take place in fits and starts there's going to be more crypto Winters ahead it's always that case but it's about at every level as we go through are we ratcheting up to another level of use and so when you ask what kind of the realistic timeline is you know I think that there will be progress within a one to twoyear window but also I think it's something that we will see because it's the underlying infrastructure for the financial system which is the the the opportunity meaning to refresh it that's going to take five years it's going to take 10 years but also when we think about why we're doing all this work we

all want to do good things it's something where if you think about anything else in terms of Innovation there's very few of them where you can think if I keep working on this if I keep contributing to this space if I keep interested in it I could imagine 10 years from now 20 years from now the ubiquity of these Technologies because it makes so much sense and you're seeing it every level right so before PayPal I was the trading CFO at Galaxy with Mike NOS right and so when I was there it was really a privilege to see that team because all come from you know Trad five institutions and this a Galaxy at that time this was before coinbase came

public so it was really the only public company in crypto of note and seeing how much they had to educate the space how much they had to spend time with hedge fund investors or insurance companies or asset managers and seeing that role of you know C carrying the carrying the flame carrying the fire for crypto that's really where we're going to keep being but now you see again JP Morgan working on these things you see uh black Brock and all of these things are going to add up because they have added up they're accumulating and so if I think about what's ahead I think about it as a long journey where there will be winds in the short term there'll be some setbacks but that the trend line has

been so incredibly consistent over time uh and that's why you know as you know Jay we can often use logarithmic scales in crypto because just going to say log the log scale in crypto that sometimes can be a marketing tool but it but it's also been accurate right the log scale has worked every time you're talking about these 10 x's and that's what's so compelling so if we're going to break through and we I know that we are to a billion monthly active users it's about this era of institutional large cap companies bringing it into ITS Technologies bringing it into its product and again it doesn't have to be a button that says use blockchain can simply be the powering empowering

infrastructure and technology behind these things over time yeah that's a great point there will never be a button that says use blockchain the same way there's not a button that says use Internet Protocol or use scnp for email like nobody knows the protocols that are behind all these Tech we just use them I want to move over to regulation because you brought up an interesting point already around your views around regulation and I just want to understand and I think my main question is like what regulation do we need in order to do the things that are possible to do because when I look at it I see as we discussed earlier there is a lot of

benefits that could be passed on to users as a result of the py USD stable coin one of the most obvious things is some stable coins now Mountain protocol being one usdm is offering native yield to their holders just by holding that stable coin now my guess is that regulation probably does not allow some py USD to do something like that in the US what kind of Regulation do you think that we need in order to do these types of things or whatever you think we can do in the future that will benefit users I think it's a a good point you bring up so let me say broadly I'll defer to my

former business partners at PayPal to speak to where they want to take the product in terms of those economics and the like but I would say this which is the I think the most important point if you think about blockchain as driving daily use and Innovation uh sorry daily use pardon me and that participation and engagement with payments and movements of financial value and everything that kind of underlays the system today I don't want us as an industry to get overly stopped and caught up with sharing of yield because again this is a moment in time right where rates are at this particular point right and I think if I really think about what's going to take crypto forward crypto's at this

really interesting Journey so far but it's moving away from the Notions of crypto sorry moving past moving beyond supplementing supplanting crypto is simply a trading asset right and crypto is a source of kind of speculative interest to use and so therefore Jay what I would say to you is users want to use payments and they're not really thinking about yield dayto day right like if you are buying something if you're buying a coffee do you think am I getting yield when I buy coffee you don't you think about it as I can do a tap and leave and right now PayPal and other payments companies

offer that but again if you can do with a tap and you can do other things like that cross border right that's where it needs to take to so I would just say for myself when I think about regulation and the like when you try to understand large companies I think the way to understand it is they are interacting and they are collaborating they're partnering they're learning from and and trying to educate it's it's a bidirectional journey and dialogue about the core things that their products do and the core things that these products do are not crypto trading and crypto speculation and those kind of yield it's about allowing daily use and daily life so when I think about so then to answer

your question about regulation I think it's about regulatory Clarity more than anything else right there's going to be different building blocks that are important to different companies and that's a very complex and a very involved process of course but I think it's about building on and again I'm going to sound a positive note because I have a high degree of respect for regulators especially the ones that we work with over time it's about taking the the good actions they've already taken taking the momentum of what they've already done taking what they've already allowed right ultimately you know look at who is being able who is large companies that are participating in crypto today that's not just an achievement of those companies it's an achievement of The Regulators as well to allow companies that are world famous

and world renown to participate in this Frontier market right so I think it's about further clarity in the US it's about taking a page from where Europe has been which has been kind of quite compelling seeing what Singapore is doing as well and then building on that that's what's really going to allow for this daily use because ultimately if you think about daily use and think about the financial system today it's everyone along that chain has to be comfortable and their Regulators have to be comfortable withholding different forms of blockchain facilitated value and that's going to be a multi-year live one analogy I'll give you and I is I think a lot about Stables the way I think about

Tesla right you have to first have the Breakthrough of not so much just an electric vehicle but an electric vehicle that reaches scale like it's available to Everyday consumers right and so I do think there's an analogy to that and onshore dollar denominated Stables like that's been the Journey of the last several years is taking an exotic technology block chain and bringing it to Everyday users there's a second part though too which is you have to create the charging station network right that's how the Tesla has value out in the market is that that kind of tremendous network of usability that's where we are with stables in part two

we've now brought this to the mainstream and then the next step is kind of domestically and internationally how do you let staes flow freely and make it a simple matter for different traditional institutions to take it on and use it which allows for all of retail users to then use it because they're sitting on top of that how do you make that a very straightforward process and so getting back to your question that's why it's a twoyear five year 10 year lift this is about refreshing an entire Financial system yeah you you bring up a refreshing Viewpoint there just realized I repeated your word refreshing but you do bring up a refreshing Viewpoint which

is I think it's very easy for all of us in the space every day to really see speculation as the primary use case for blockchain and to kind of lose the forest through the trees when we look at that and forget that there is an entire world of billions of humans out there that will not use blockchain for speculative purposes they will just use it because it is a better form of payment or transaction and they won't care about the speculation and so I think you it is important to remember that because that is the long-term vision of this and there is so that alone we would win that alone the whole world would benefit everybody you know

we talk about the three billion people globally that are unbanked like allowing them to access the financial system allowing them to access simply being able to send money around the world without having to use Western Union pay 20% fees or whatever their fees are like that is a big a big win for us I want to zoom out even further so and Jay sorry could I add could I add one thing there because yeah I do believe it takes a village and it takes an ecosystem I want to be very clear on this comment I am strongly in support of people trading in and out of crypto right I mean I I I I was the trading CFO of Galaxy so I believe in it here's what I'd say we should open up the aperture to consider where all the value is coming from in

crypto and it's your point and and the when I was making too it should also be about daily use and kind of vanilla use cases of crypto as well but here's the the connective tissue Beyond not just supporting people trading in in crypto and at times considering it a speculative investment as well think also about where will the speculative value of crypto come from right how will all those coins and tokens go up in value it's by having use right so in other words these things are connected so if people want to go in and out of crypto you also need to see those tokens being used as the infrastructure of daily life right and so that that's where these things connect is that if we

only focus on yield but not the actual use of stable coins then we're kind of missing the the forest that are in the trees but likewise if we think about any of the chains that Stables are on those chains will rise in value if they are being utilized by very d use cases right so that's where these things connect we we are all Linked In wanting to see daily use go up because that's what the the driver of so many different forms of value which we can participate in and different people will participate in but it is a a village in that sense a lot of people in crypto together will a rising TI generally yeah yeah I I I completely agree let's look at uh PayPal is not the

only player that's been active in the space from the fintech trafi world we've got MasterCard and Visa quite active in the space we've got Black Rock really really active in the space shout out to Larry for really making getting on CNBC and making sure he educates the whole world stripe and many many others when you zoom out where do you think we're headed in this cycle yeah that's the right question I would say it this way I think now having been through like you several crypto winters at this point each kind of cycle has different different kind of characteristics I think now that Bitcoin has been I think broadly assessed as a genuine store of

value that has a high possibility of Lindy right that will benefit hodlers over the long term and it's not again a fat I think now that we've also seen other kind of you know World computer chains also prove their value as well right and also some initial experiments in that regard too initial that Acquire size whether those are nfts or the like and the and the possibility of tokenization this next era is going to be defined in my view by large companies that can now mainstream blockchain Innovations into the financial system into payments into asset management and

so all those companies that you cited I think not all of them will be necessarily using Stables not all of them will NE necessarily be doing open loop it could be permissioned blockchains but what I really think is the case is we're reaching the escape Velocity now of large companies being able to not just connect to web 3 right which is if you think about what MasterCard did with metamask recently it's about allowing kind of web 3 value to be used in daily life there's something else it's letting their systems be upgraded to blockchain and so I think uh when we think about where we are now we've gotten the visibility we've gotten hundreds of millions of

users that have uh are holding crypto but now to get to of that billion monthly active users of crypto which is going to take some time to get there it's about these large companies letting their platforms be upgraded in that way I also think not for nothing if you know to PayPal we had you know over a dozen investments in the crypto space right so very active inventure there you think about other companies that are investing into crypto what I'd say to crypto entrepreneurs because you know having been a Founder myself like there's a lot of kind of natural sympotic out there I want them to succeed I I believe in what

they're doing and if I think about that I think about it as in part it should be them thinking about Enterprise use cases right of crypto and how they can allow that to work whether that's moving value between chains right whether that's about security and compliance whether that's about taking these tokens of value and putting it out into Frontier markets right so wallets that exist out in Frontier markets that's where I think so much of this next cycle is going to be it we should still be looking at zero to1 Innovations we should still be looking at exotic breakthroughs in blockchain and different ways of organizing the world right whether that be in defi or in other nooks and crannies but also also it's about taking

this core Financial infrastructure and updating it and upgrading it and how can startups how can innovators participate in that and enable these large companies to on board the daily and monthly active users that uh we need to take this space forward yeah it's so true I mean we we talk about a billion users I feel like a broken record I've been podcasting for three years and I've probably probably titled many of our episodes the path to a billion users over and over again but we you know we hit an all-time high for monthly active users last month each month we hit an all-time high right now and last month was 60 million only

60 million monthly active user we still got a long way to go and as you said in order to do that we need more entrepreneurs doing the less exotic stuff and doing a little bit of the more vanilla businesses that we just really need that those Basics right now and yeah so uh Neil where can people reach out to you where can they learn more about you if they if they want to follow you across the internet yeah listen I think that uh I'm on uh Twitter I'm on LinkedIn all the normal stations telegram you'll have to ping me to to get that but uh what I'd say you know look broadly is this like I've now been in crypto for over a half decade it is one of the most compelling spaces out

there this is an incredible and wonderful community and Library and like filled with so much High Hopes and Technical prowess and entrepreneurial grit and so you know it's been a privilege to have been a Galaxy at this kind of at its critical moment in the industry and being at PayPal as well and so now you know I'm spending a lot of time with the entrepreneurs who are going to Define this next wave right and so i' would say people should uh you know feel free to reach out to me like this is the pleasure and the privilege of being in crypto is being around people that want to change the world and so um and likewise you know really I have to pass the compliment back to you and your team as well which IID said off camera too like education in crypto is

one of the key things that we all need to commit to it's not it's it's about bringing people along and so I really salute the work you're doing at milk Road as well because that's how we're going to take it from 60 million Maus to 100 million to 500 to a billion and so on it's we have to let people get comfortable with it we have to build Technologies people want to use and we have to support the companies and teams that are mainstreaming these really important Technologies to human freedom and human benefit Neil thank you so much for thanks for the kind words and thank you for your time today and everything you've done in the space everybody thank you so much for listening in have a

wicked awesome day as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow follow us so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more

than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day