Can ETHlabs Escape the Ethereum Foundation's Habits? : Uneasy Money

Transcript

Okay, our first segment, EatLabs breaks from the EF. What is Eat Labs, you probably saying? Um, so EAL Labs is a new nonprofit R&D lab. Um, whose state of mission is to make Ethereum the settlement layer of the global economy and accelerate the institutional super cycle. Look, I really hope that Supercycle was not put into their like incorporation documents. We really shouldn't mention Super Cycle uh ever. Um our good friend Suzu uh the guy who coined that um not the best guy, not the best dude. And

every time anyone ever says Super Cycle, like all the prices go down and I mean here we are today. So, let's strike super cycle from the record hopefully. Um, let's let's try and find a different different term. Uh, so so the founders um are a bunch of XE EF people, Barnaby, um, uh, etc., etc., etc. Um, and the anchor funders are Bitmine. Um, and they they all put in uh ETH or cash into this thing.

>> That wasn't clear to me. >> I some form of money for sure. >> I hope they put ultrasound money into this thing. I would that if they didn't, that seems like a mistake. I guess though the the only downside in giving people ETH to do something is then they sell it and then everyone hates them. So you kind of you're kind of stuck there. Um so anyway, they gave them some money um in some form, maybe stables. Um and uh they're starting off, this is the the only like a little bit of a downer for me. Um was they're starting off their research target the team is leading with is the so-called 15minute finality problem. That seems like a dumb problem

to start off with. I like I don't know like I don't think anyone cares about that genuinely. Like what do we what is what's the benefit from a institutional super cycle perspective of this 15minute finality problem? Hey, do you know? [laughter] >> I have no idea. >> You have no idea. Like >> so this is my thing is like and there's a lot of people who think and they're not wrong to be clear but like it's not the full story, right? A lot of people think that like Vitalic is the problem with the EF because Vitalic has his own personal goals and way of viewing the world and if you want to do things that are different then it's good

luck or whatever. That's like a like a very consistent narrative out of the EF especially with like the EF denters. However, that is not the full story. And so my my biggest hesitation, I'm not against Ethls existing, but my biggest hesitation with it is it is a lot of EF people. Like at the end of the day, it is they're X EF people now. So you can say that they were unhappy or whatever, but like in my opinion, the biggest problem with EF is like they they're not operating at scale. And I'm not I'm not convinced that taking a whole bunch of people who have been at the >> a subset of people from EF And >> like your hot take is everyone at the EF is bad.

>> It's not that everyone is bad, but I I think that like you never joined you never joined the EF if you weren't of a certain let's say like approach and mindset >> mindset your Yeah. Your mindset is so so splicing off a subset of the people of the EF even if they're like conscientious objectors who left or been fired or whatever happened uh is not necessarily going to get you a different outcome. I don't know. I don't know about that. That feels a bit unfair to me. Like, you know, there's always people in an org who are like the ones agitating for change or saying like, "Oh, we should do things differently."

Like, you know, there's what hundred at one point there was like 150 people in the EF or whatever. >> I'm sure there were people like even Tomas, like you know, they I know they kicked him out, but but like there were people that were like commercially minded in there, but also Ethereum minded. Like surely if you give them their own vehicle I I want to be a bit more >> I mean I hope I hope >> I hope but I I see your point. The risk is >> you just get a mini EF with the same kind of mindset, right? >> Yeah. And and you know maybe it's better like maybe maybe you do you take away some of the incentives or some of the the culture and that's what was missing.

But um we will see. We will see. I think that like an organ like this needs a strong I think I think it really needs strong leadership and I also think it needs a like strong way of like setting goals and then measuring like success towards those goals. And I think that's that's like the key thing that the EF has not it's never taken that approach to like building to what they're shipping to their priorities. Um, and I'm I'm not like some of these guys have been at the for seven years. Like >> Yeah.

>> I'm just not convinced that that's how they they operate, but we'll see. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting. I mean, there was there was a point that was made uh around like, you know, independence, etc. uh if if you know uh Joe Luben is one of the like anchor funders you know how will they stay independent etc. Um, like my my sense is if the people who are funding you are some of the largest ETH holders, you have to hope that those people want the price of ETH to go up, right? And they're going to want you to focus on things that will be meaningful. Even the institutional adoption thing, Super Cycle notwithstanding being being in

their mandate, right? Um, says to me that they're like thinking about this from a more commercially minded standpoint. That That's why it just feels weird. The 15-minute finality thing. Like, >> yeah, >> maybe I'm [ __ ] I mean, I am [ __ ] but like I just that's not on my top 10 list of things that if you suddenly had like the most cracked researchers, you'd be like, "Let's start with that." >> Like, >> yeah, >> maybe someone can convince me as to why that's that's a good problem to start with. Um, but yeah, it doesn't it doesn't feel like there's any >> I also >> just feel it's it's also the framing of it. I this always gets to me and it's

like to me this is the biggest indicator of like like when I look at founders and stuff and whether I whether I'm going to bet on them being successful or not like what what the is the 15-minute finality problem like what is that how does that guide you? How does that shape your goals? How do you measure success? Right. It's a research problem. Do you know what I mean? Whereas >> I mean it is a research lab in fairness. Like they've got to research something. >> Yeah. But I mean can we frame it like I don't just some like either institutional facing or userf facing or like some you know something that you're going to achieve >> some benefit to the end user. Yeah.

Exactly. Like, and this is where I say, you know, I I really tend to agree with your take of if you take people out of the EF, you know, are they going to be able to communicate the intent behind their actions well? Like, have they learned to do that at the EF? They certainly haven't learned to do that at EF, >> right? >> Like, inscrable communications is definitely one of the EF's up exports to the world, right? And so, you know, I like I don't think they learned uh I don't think they learned that. So, like that that is a bit uh that is a bit on on brand, I guess, right? Like for someone who's left the EF that like oh here's this research problem that

>> we're going to frame again in like some weird inscrable way that only we care about even if there are benefits like the fact that we're sitting here going like what the [ __ ] is this? Like that is >> that's what I mean. Just frame it. Just just flip it on its head. Tell me what the end date >> the benefit what's the >> yeah and make it and make it beneficial to someone please like yeah we have got to get out of this like I call it like the theoretical research mindset where they just they sit in silos and they research things and it has very little connection to uh the real world because they >> I mean look like with with with abstract right like you got to you got to pitch different people you got to pitch like

you know uh builders users whatever like you know uh the the pitch from abstract has like been consumer adoption but then you guys are like all right we need to pitch builders better because we need some DeFi [ __ ] otherwise like consumers are going to you know get lose money or whatever not have any liquidity not be able to sell stuff not be able to trade um like what's your what's your sense in terms terms of like the external ETH comms around like, okay, we've got a new group of people that are going to like really solve some problems, what are the problems that they should be going out and solving and and telling people they're going to solve? It's an

interesting one because I think like I always felt like Vitalik always had a good finger on the pulse in terms of like what Ethereum needed to succeed and I think his problems that I think he's addressed that I think they've been working to solve. I mean the core foundation's been working to solve are probably the right ones. Obviously this is like a different group and so when I look at this group um you know obviously it's like the big treasury holders. I'm kind of with you Kane. I don't know what 15-minute finality like what difference that makes. Clearly, it makes a difference to somebody though. Like I would probably take the bet and trust, you know, the the M&R team and other of those teams that are having

conversations with institutions that like that is a problem somehow some way. Like I don't think that's not I don't think that's just like they picked you know the >> No, it's probably not arbitrary. It's probably not. That's fair. It's probably not arbitrary. Like they probably picked something that they think will be beneficial. It's just like fact that all three of us are like the [ __ ] is this thing is not amazing. >> Yeah. And to that point, like I I think their quam I think just Ethereum's quam has always been communication, right? which is actually like a byproduct of I think the giga brains that work there. Like I've always

found that like being s a super smart talented developer and being a communicator is not necessarily synonymous. Like I've actually found you guys will find this funny but I've actually had many problems over the years probably over the last five six years where I do my whole like motivational inspirational thing and the developers like in the group are just like oh my god no no no no like this is not good >> dude. Oh trust like I have this problem as well. >> Yeah. They're like this is >> my most crack guys sometimes I'll be like all right I'm going to like really like rev them up and they're like I'm now petrified.

>> Yeah. It's like hot, man. >> Yeah, I I agree. I agree. It can be it can be hard. Um it can be hard to like through on that stuff. Um so yeah, I mean like I really want to be bullish on this. Like genuinely I really want to be bullish on it. Um, I think there is um a huge benefit to having uh even even if they're not like super independent like having different voices with like slightly different mandates out there like competitive pressure etc etc um whether they can actually deliver

something into the you know uh structure that exists for like consensus in in Ethereum as in like whether they can ship something, you know, do a bunch of research. You still have to turn it into an EIP, you still have to get through governance, you'll have to get it to the validator. Like there's there's a process here. Obviously, coming from the EF, they should understand that, I guess. Um, but you know, whether like this effort is rejected by the host is is kind of remains to be seen, right? Like do they just kind of ignore these guys now and go, "H, we don't really care what you guys are doing. um we've got our own road map um is it remains to be seen but you know it does it does feel like Ethereum waking up a little

bit and saying like okay we've got to got to invest more money in like making the product better product is the network the network has features make better features if you enjoyed this segment make sure you tune in at 400 p.m. Eastern every Wednesday where we have much more content like