Building the New Market Infrastructure Powered by Tokenized Assets

Transcript

Next up, we have an amazing panel. And speaking of the infrastructure and who is building it when it comes to tokenized assets, that's what we are going to discuss on stage. Especially putting it into the light what we just heard from Christian. It's quite interesting that these new rails, those containers, who is building those on which layer of the stack and who is here today and who is going to be here tomorrow. So, please welcome on stage. I would like to announce we'll have um on stage first of all Rafael Mastro Berardino from Franklin Templeton.

Please come on stage Rafael. Next up, we have Carlo Mandani from six. Welcome on stage. Right after we have Dr. Lydia Qu from BX Digitals. Turion, last definitely not least, we have Robert Olashak from the Swiss National Bank. Please come on stage. And the panel will be moderated by our one and only Emmy Lur from the Crypto Valley Association board, former president of the board and who works for Talis. Please enjoy. Put your hands together for this panel. Thanks so much Benedak and it's my utmost pleasure to welcome this fantastic lineup of panelists when we

speak about tokenization and defining the next infrastructure how markets should be operate. We are not discussing here digitalization of securities. We are discussing how capital markets may evolve, how assets are issued, trade on how settlement is going to happen and how trust is engineered in the digitally native environment. What makes this conversation particularly important is that we have here participants from the ecosystem who are already building and shaping capital markets. how the new capital market is going to to look. And so today the question is not whether tokenization is

possible. The question is how we design it in a way that it's interoperable, it's scalable as well as it's responsible. Let's begin. Please Lydia, introduce yourself, the company you represent and how you're involved in organization today. >> Thank you very much for having me today. Um and thank you for that introduction. Yeah, my name Lydia. I'm CEO at Saturon and Bakes Digital. Those are the two tokenized asset businesses of the Burst Stokar group. Um we are actually running a settlement infrastructure. So, Satudon is a panuropean settlement infrastructure um which allows to settle tokenized assets and bakes digital is the DT exchange on top of it uh in

Switzerland meaning an exchange uh to trade and settle tokenized assets. Um I've been in the space for quite some time. I've been building digital assets businesses for the last 10 years. Uh and what I'm seeing at the moment is very much a massive shift in terms of adoption. Um but happy to talk about that today. Yeah, we are not talking about BC's and etc. We are talking about um about uh action in real time. Uh Robert, would you like to go next please? >> Thank you. Uh hi everyone. My name is Robert Olishak. Um I work on tokenization since around four years.

First at the BIS innovation hub and and since a little bit more than one year back at the SMB where I lead project Helvetia. in project Elvitzia and we'll be talk about it in a minute in a bit more detail. We are looking at how we can support the settlement in settlement money of tokenized assets. >> Carlo, >> thank you. So good morning everyone and thanks for having me and pleasure to be in such a great institutional planet with a lot of esteemed colleagues. Uh I think we know each other very well. Um so I am the head of sales of six digital assets. Uh little change from SDX and I

will tell you in a second why. So six is the financial market infrastructure of Switzerland. So we operate exchanges. I use the plural because six group is also owning the port of Madrid. So we have also foot in in the door in Europe. But we have also recently acquired an MTF infrastructure called Aquis. So we have an MTF in UK. So clearly our ambition is not just to be the Swiss infrastructure but to become an European infrastructure and uh of course we do uh whatever you can possibly imagine about is so in the in the blockchain space we have been the world first actually regulated exchange

and CSD operating on DLD so on blockchain already in 2021 so since it's almost been the pleasure to particip ipate in the project with the assembly around the Swiss Frank tokenization and I can announce that uh we are on the verge of integrating the digital blockchain infrastructure into the main house. So it means that to the Helia graph we are going definitely on the end of the story. So uh which means that uh we are waiting in the FIMA approval by the end of March probably to merge the web3 which is the entity under which we

operate the cryptocurrency custody together with the CSD nothing new because is exactly what can happen in Mikar in Europe. So we are adapting exactly what our our competition is competitors are doing. Point number one but point number two which is very interesting I think is the fact that we expect uh also to receive the approval to basically merge the two CSD by late spring. So looking at how hot is are the days outside late spring is very soon.

So at that point in time the idea is that you will have a key to multiple doors. You can access digital or traditional securities with digital or traditional services. That will be up to you the market to decide where you want to go. Thank you >> Rafael please. >> Thank you Amy. I'm Rafael part of the partnership development team within Franklin Templeton digital assets. Uh as you Christian Franklin Templeton started 10 years ago building on chain uh primarily proprietary infrastructure on public blockchain and my focus has been helping uh traditional institution integrates onchain workflows mainly for

liquidity management as well bringing traditional and institutional grade products to fintex crypto foundation and protocols. >> Thanks so much. Let's uh take a step back and start at the basics. Why why do we tokenize, Lydia? Is tokenization a distribution play or are we reinventing the infrastructure? Why why do we tokenize? I see it very much as a efficiency operational play as really an infrastructure play much more than a distribution play. Um if you think what tokenization does it's actually bringing the asset itself um on the blockchain meaning the asset itself gets digital for the first time in our history. So up

to now we might have had digital registry and the likes but we didn't have an asset itself that digital. So we can now move the asset from left to right in a digital form meaning same way as I would send an email today I can send an asset uh tomorrow and that massively shifts how we handle assets. So you can actually u make conditions on that asset. Uh you can make transfers much more quicker. So still being in a T plus2 environment today seems sometimes a bit absurd in my opinion in a digital age. But so you can shift that you can go to an instant settlement regime and you can do everything much cheaper. Um so if you compare it again to an email um I strongly believe that costs around

transferring and settling assets will actually go down very very much maybe at some point even to zero I don't know but it will go down and so the massive costs we have today in settlement and post rate um that's what we are trying uh to solve on one side the distribution play just add as a last point the distribution play I understand it that that most often would especially within banks that um it would be the best if that would be the case, right? Uh because it's easier to sell cases within large institutions if it's a distribution play. You can add onto your revenues. You can extend your revenues. You can add new distribution channels and I believe at some point that might be the case, but it's not the starting point of tokenization.

>> Rafal, do you want to chime in? >> Yeah, the reality is that not all tokenization is made equal. Um big part of the market is focusing on distribution only and what it creates is that they have in the example of funds uh you can have a traditional fund traditional transfer agent or shareholder registry and they decided to wrap that create a digital twin onchain. Now by doing so yes you will have um programmability you will have some advantages but in reality the infrastructure has not changed so you just have additional counterparty risk um and additional operational uh risk uh and reconciliation risk that can be added um the importance of tokenization

is within the infrastructure and I believe today uh Franklin Templeton is still the only one to have a nonchain shareholder registry so an onchain transfer agents regulated And when you have that, you've got two main improvements, uh, two main benefits. Um, obviously the first thing is that you've got an asset that is regulated as any traditional fund that has no additional contemporary risk, no additional operational risk and a reconciliation risk. But because it lives onchain, you've got first a peer-to-peer instance transfer or real time transfer. That's really important because when the transfer agent is onchain uh and legally onchain then if I

decide to send this money market fund to bank B um bank B is now owning Benji legally even if it's overnight even on the weekend and that's instant if the token itself was just a wrap then legally the owner of the token is not the owner of the fund and here you have a lot of reconciliation risk the second big advantage of why we tokenize and why we started with a money market funds. So obviously there is this peer-to-peer transfer with instance settlements 24/7 but then because of blockchain because blockchain at the end is just a way to better handle data. uh we've been able to cut and split the yields up to the second which mean that now uh you've got

an asset that is yielding up to the second and you're sure not to lose any second of minute yield even between when you have a transfer within the day so I think tokenization why would we tokenize first is improvements of the infrastructure having an issuance that is shipless having a compliance and the regulation that is uh that can better access the data and that is now more comfortable with the funds and then also the investor. All of it at the end is for the investor to have a better asset and to use uh a better asset that he can as as usual.

>> Thanks so much and we will dive later into who are these investors or who are the buyers of the money market funds. Robert, what is the role of the central bank in the era of tokenization? So um compared to the traditional systems I I believe that that the role of central bank money in the tokenized world does not change. So it's really the same and that is because central bank money is is a risk-free and very liquid settlement asset and that's independent of of the technology that you are using. Um so given that I think it's it's a it's a natural use case for settling transactions between financial institutions

uh where large values are involved. Um now we have been investing as central banks and also financial institutions since nearly 40 years in so-called real-time growth settlement systems. So, so those are those are large value payment systems uh that settle transactions between financial and these are highly containerized straight through processing systems. And just just to give you kind of a an idea today in Switzerland um our RTGS system uh settles every day 4 million transactions and the the worth of 200 billion Swiss Franks. So this is really

something that that really is very highly efficient. However, when we look at DTS, I think DTS compared to RTGS offer new functions. That that's one thing. And also I think what is quite interesting is that you can put money and assets on the same platform and which allows you together with programmability, together with composibility, many new features that you you cannot have with the autogs system. And that's why with with project Helvetia we are we are not only looking into how we could support the settlement of of tokenized assets in central bank money but also we are we are supporting it in

a production live environment. So with SDX we are we are issuing um wholesale central bank digital currencies uh on their platform. Uh so so SDX uh and the and the pilot banks that are participating in this can use central bank money to to settle um tokenized assets such as bonds or or also equities and also we have started a cooperation with B digital. Um B digital is looking into um issuing tokenized assets on Ethereum. maybe central banks are not yet ready uh to to issue a sentback money on Ethereum. So that's why we are

looking into a OTGS link. Uh the idea is there that we synchronize the settlement of of assets on Ethereum and and also uh the settlement of of central bank money in our own very own system. Um we believe this is a journey. I think we are here trying to build new financial market infrastructures and I believe that we can only learn and make the next steps when you really do it >> 100%. Um Carlo the next question goes to you. Six sits at the heart of uh custody settlement clearing in Switzerland and when you look at tokenized assets do you see uh structural transformation or modernization? what what is your view

here? >> Well, I I will try to be a bit political. Um I think that uh when you do innovation in financial markets, sometimes you cannot have as Musk was saying an unpredicted and rapid disassembblement of the vehicle which is basically the rocket is exploding. So in financial market that's not good. So um I think that is like a chair to stay to stand still. You need more than one leg. So one leg is surely the infrastructure but we need also the banks. We need a clear regulatory framework and of course which puts the

last but probably is the first is the client. So what's the market want? So it's just thinking about all these three togethers that you can really advance and create value and to come back to the question is with that in mind is that there is not the one sizefits-all solution. So we need of course to maintain the market as it is today because tomorrow you cannot go on given there are so many bankers you cannot go on your screen and then suddenly is black. So it should work uh as it is today and at the same time we are trying to make it more efficient and as Lydia said most often than not this is happening where you don't see it and

sometimes is good not to expose to you all this complexity but the the fact matter of fact is that the system in the background is becoming much more lean and efficient. So where we can definitely we are pushing a bit the boundaries to get to really transformational changes wherever possible. I mean crypto per se is a transformational change was not there before was born in the peer-to-peer private market and now is going into the institutional side and we are trying to build it as institutional as it can be within within six within the exchange.

So is a combination of both factors. Uh but I I tend to again say that tokenization per se as as Rafael has mentioned is is not just the end is just a tool then how you want to use the tool and I say you want as a market to use the tool is still to be seen and we are still discovering a lot on what's possible now and what can be very really scalable. >> Thank you for sharing. So then coming back to what was a bit touch touched on already Lydia are we building parallel rails? What is the innovation here when

it comes to trade and post trade? Uh can you can you uh add to that a bit more? >> Yes. Um so we strongly believe that trading in itself is very efficient today already. Um so there might be a future where trading on the blockchain makes absolute sense and also bringing trading and post trading together on the blockchain. However, looking at the point where we are at now, we see the biggest efficiency gains in post trading meaning settlement uh as an example. Um we also see a shift on how post rating in terms of like how it's set up uh is actually going to be changed. Meaning we don't need someone having central custody anymore. As said, we can now transfer the asset peer-to-peer as we

would send an email. So, as we don't need the post office anymore, we might not need the central securities depository, the CSD anymore for actually doing central custody of the asset. Obviously, there's a lot more in post trading than just custody element. So, you have the settlement process where someone has to orchestrate asset versus cash delivery. So, DVP delivery versus uh payment and that is something that still exists. that putting on the blockchain is much more efficient. So how we did it and how we envisioned the future to be is actually that in settlement in post trading we have uh the new part the settlement part on the blockchain. Um so as an example in Europe we built a panuropean settlement platform where the trading venues that

exist today can connect meaning um any traditional exchange that runs on traditional rails doesn't need to be on the blockchain can connect to Saturn as a panuropean settlement platform and simply by connecting to the settlement platform they are then able to trade tokenized securities because trading tokenized securities is actually or trading in general is actually just trading an IC number the trading system doesn't care whether it's a tokenized asset or a traditional asset. It can trade any is so you can keep the trading system as it is. Uh you simply have to change post trading and that obviously then leads to a shift in how the post trade infrastructure might look like. I said the CSD might not be required anymore. The wallet infrastructure could

actually run be run by banks and we can settle transaction between the banks directly. So we have a massive shift in terms of which role is being taken care of by whom. It's not just a new technology and we implement it and then we have it. It's really we have to think differently on how those roles might look like in the future. >> Thanks so much. That's uh a fantastic uh breakdown of how some uh functions are not being needed anymore. Um is there something what you want to add Rafael? Well, um I think indeed if you're looking to tokenization and something that will be here in in 10 years, you have to transform the actual infrastructure, not to build something

just in parallel. So yeah, that's all about transforming what's we have now. >> Thank you. My next question. Oh, Robert, please >> can I add something? I I I think the the question was um whether we we are building um um parallel rails or or how how these um tokenized and and the traditional world will interact. So I believe that um that that with settlement and custody onchain uh you basically have built an infrastructure that is always on 24/7 uh and potentially is the reach is is is global. So, so I think that the implication for how

trading is done today, uh, what the role of financial market infrastructures are, what the role of of investors and and the banks are, I think will also change. Um, and I completely agree with that. I think there will be some role maybe for CSDs. Let's see. So, so let's let's maybe make a bet on that. uh because I believe that even with self custody there are some services that that um that that CSDs might offer in the future. Um so so let's see on that but but I think that everything will change and especially uh I believe that there will not be uh one DT that will be several DTS and I think so so it will be about

interoperability uh between the traditional system DTS and and in between DTS so I think in the future system might be more complex and um require a lot of interoperability ility. So we need to really deeply think about that and we also need to think about measures how to avoid uh liquidity fragmentation in the future. >> Such a good point. Uh liquidity is uh is the number one thing uh we think about at Talos. So I I absolutely agree with you. I would love to um address this question to you Rafael. Christian mentioned that uh that Franklin Templeton has tokenized or as in tokenized MMFs

money market funds in the US in Hong Kong in Singapore in Luxembourg. Can you tell us a bit who are buying these MMFs and what are the use cases? >> Yes. So as of today the fund has raised uh across those four jurisdiction more than 1.3 uh billion USD. uh it all started with customer that were not the usual customers of Franklin Templeton. So we first add fintex crypto foundation stable conure using Benji as a reserve assets. We then had some VCs uh in the US first buying Benji before um investing in their protocols and later even subscribing into deals with Benji

via an instant ownership transfer uh in order to avoid any loss or any uh any way to to lose any yields uh when they subscribe the deal. From that we had the second wave of customers that were more hedge funds, market makers and that mainly was pushed um by um our collateral mirroring program. The fact to to use Benji as a collateral on exchanges like Binance, like OKX and we had already some requests to use those uh Benji as collateral on traditional exchanges. um for them uh especially for market makers with OTC desk we're starting to see the creation of a an OTC market on Benji where you've got

customer that instead of buying Benji through the primary markets they decide to send stable coin or even Bitcoin to the market maker and then receive Benji uh all of that with via peer-to-peer transfer now I think we're on the third wave uh we've got some early adopters within traditional institution some state-owned institution uh have started to invest into Benji um but also banks. Um I think uh regarding the traditional side of finance and and these institutions the corporates uh the missing part is uh the integration for them of wallets um for them having the possibility to use blockchain to have a wallet and I think that's where uh banks

are so important uh we have a lot of corporates uh that are willing to buy our funds use it use it for settlement for trade finance uh but they want to do so via bank Um and I think that's where the bank has a role to play. They can manage the custody. They can help corporates access those funds and then be uh the liquidity up for for Benji which is Benji is our money market fund. >> Thank you. Um we mentioned fragmentation Robert and liquidity. So fragmentation is absolutely a big concern. multiple blockchains, multiple uh standards, multiple um settlement assets. Who is responsible for ensuring

interoperability? Um the regulator is the is the infrastructure provider or market demand? How how were we like who decides? What do you think? >> Um I I think that's a tough one. um especially since we are uh looking at the very early and very dynamic market. So setting up standards too early might might maybe also kill competition or or new ideas. So so I think we need to be careful on that. Um generally >> is is good.

>> Yes, of course. Yeah. So you don't want to kill that by you know by setting too early standards and and allowing not allow new ideas. So I think that's that that's important. Um so when I think about when I think about liquidity or or avoiding liquidity fragmentation then then I think then I see markets right and markets you need to you need several players to to come to to come together. So you have investors you have issuers you have banks or financial institutions more generally um and then you have maybe central banks who provide the settlement asset and then you have regulators. So, so how do do you bring all these all these interests um and different views together and I believe

governance is one important word that that you need really need to think about. So how do you want to build financial market infrastructures of the future where all the parties sit at the table and and decide together what is what is right and and how how we want to move and what kind of standards and and what kind of interoperability do we want to have. So, so that's why I think financial market infrastructures and the governance are very very important um as as a building block for that. >> Thank you. Uh Carlo, a followup to that maybe. How do you assess uh regulatory their regulatory landscape in Switzerland towards tokenization?

>> Well, I think that as we have seen this morning, Switzerland has been for quite some times ahead of the game. We are witnessing matter of fact that US are speeding up. So they have changed gears. Um so is would be good to I mean do in the Swiss way slowly and surely uh but not too slowly either. So I think that uh there are some let's say some discussion even happening and even together Rafael because for example in Switzerland we cannot have a money market funds because we cannot have a constant nav. So there are little tweaks in the Swiss regulation that are not

allowing innovation as we speak. So not very complicated on paper but until the moment you will not get this done you cannot have a money market funds in Switzerland. So that's a lot of things that is happening in the background but you need to imagine that is not just red carpet everywhere also in Switzerland. So on that side I can just say that we would love to see a bit more risk takingaking on on uh on on that front on the digital side because I we think that the time is mature technology is mature enough and in terms of liquidity and and not just to bring the water to my mill as we say

in Italian but I think that to the point of CSD that are needed or not is also matter of trust is a matter of risk mitigation is a matter of who do you trust to do what sometimes uh as say today sometimes you cannot uh basically give certain activity to someone else. So you cannot delegate but in other cases you should without saying the must but you should delegate because there there is maybe a better way to do it le risky or more efficient or a combination of both. So the point is always to be a little bit open-minded and and to conclude about Ireland and again

thinking about the US and trading uh every US exchange want to move to 247 good or bad I'm not sure that regulator will approve to go 247 because there are some risk we have seen unfortunately these days the the markets in the Middle East are closed for a very good reason. So imagine a security market open 24/7 as we speak. Actually the full impact or a big impact happen was happening on the crypto market because was open on the weekend and maybe was not that good. So that that aside, net of that in terms of of interoperability to again um plug on

what uh just said uh we do interoperability since at least three years. So we can move assets from traditional traditional to digital in the six environment. So we can transfer assets in and out tokenize or detokenize as will whatever you want since three years. So I see that in the audience there was Paulo Bortoolin. So he knows very well that the Lugano bond and what we can do on the digital assets. So when we have seen the news that DTCC the DDCC again is the biggest CSD on planet. So I launch a quick question.

You know what is the total market cap of crypto today? >> Rafael. >> Slow slow. >> Yeah. Well, three trillion round probably >> closer to two. >> Closer to two recently. Yes. 2 trillion. DTCC is is holding 100 trillion of assets is 50 times 50 times the total market cap of crypto. So they want to tokenize everything they have there. So think also about what is the potential impact of providing to the market the tools to be more efficient because digital assets by definition as said

before are surely more um efficient because programmability because instant settlement. So there is a lot of things you can do with these assets. So at some point the market will decide the way forward and as infrastructure we need to basically end all them in that direction without preventing innovation. So also for us in in six we are not closing the door to interoperability. On the contrary, you want to be as interoperable as possible and sometimes when you do interoperability actually you don't move assets just to break maybe a legend but about

crypto sometimes you transfer the assets but recently we realized that is better to mirror the assets and don't move the assets because you cannot be act and there is more efficiency sometimes is not in not moving the assets but you to have uh trusted custodian that have your assets somewhere. So there there there is not that's not the only way but there are different way to use the same technology. >> Thanks so much uh Carlo before uh we move to the closing question I um I would love to hear your take Lydia because BX digital is an affiliate of Persudgar.

What is the perspective in the EU uh on tokenization? So in um Europe or specifically in the European Union uh you have the big vision of having one capital market union. However, the reality is you have for every member state you have a different CSD. They might be um belonging to a certain CSD or exchange group. Um but still they are organized in a national way. Meaning that if you want to transfer assets in today's system across the European Union, it's very complex. It's very costly. So this fragmented post trade infrastructure in Europe is one of the biggest issue for Europe currently or for the EU specifically to actually um generate this this European capital market union.

So the idea of having uh one post trade infrastructure across the across the borders is is actually one that resonates very well in Europe meaning that they want to go into that direction right they want to move away from the national silos which by the way are most often also monopolies right so not only it's complex um the costs are also um you're dependent uh on monopolies now the biggest um or the biggest hurdle there is that uh This post rate infrastructure is being run by large institutions obviously and the Bishutka group said very early on uh we want to be an innovative player interestingly enough they are so they are the sixth largest European exchange group but we

are the largest European exchange group without the CSD business so we are actually the one uh which might be willing to to think it in a disruptive way doesn't mean that the others aren't disruptive they are very disruptive and they have very disruptive uh projects and that's good like that but actually going the extra mile and say okay let's sync it on a on a clean sheet like how would we structure it how would you structure infrastructure if you don't have to lose anything and that's what we are trying to do um as a versuskar group on a European play um in Switzerland uh the things are a bit different if you only look at Switzerland we obviously have one CSD uh which uh makes it much easier imagine we would have uh although it's on a much like lower level but imagine we would have a CSD per every

canton and that would make it obviously very difficult so here in Switzerland uh with with So yes, we are we are much more uh on a on this already consolidate basis as opposed to the the European Union. >> Rafael add something related to silos and to regulation. Um indeed when when I I discussed about our money market fund so you can send it peer-to-peer and the idea was how can we make that possible for corporates uh that is in Switzerland to be able to buy it and send it in in in Luxembourg in France but also in Hong Kong. Um and the idea was that indeed instead of launching a fund regulated by the FINMA, we started to launch a fund

regulated by the CSSF regulator in Luxmbourg. And the idea was that now that this fund is use it um a customer now can buy this fund as it was traditional funds but also buy it from Switzerland. So this idea of not launching in Switzerland was also to avoid any silos and have one fund available in several countries. uh and also available to send cross border. >> Thanks so much. We we arrived to the last question. Um we seen proofs of proof of concept first issuances.

What do we need in order to achieve scale and to not differentiate maybe in 10 years there won't be the concept of traditional assets and tokenized assets. What what do we need to scale a quick uh rapid fire from? from uh right to left. Rafael, you want to start? >> Yes. Uh that's a difficult question uh to end to end this panel. I think if we want really to have scale, we've got to build something that is truly better than the tradition that what we have traditionally. And that's what we're trying to do. Not only having uh let's say only the distribution side, only one part of uh of what blockchain can help us to to do. Um the idea is that if you

want to scale we really got got to change the world infrastructure and create something that is for the end investor uh for the one that matter truly better. >> Thanks so much Carlo. >> Yeah one word um I I think that for scalability we should start to think that we cannot conquer the planet alone. So the more the marrier for me that's really the point. So as much as they are also competitors but as much as other countries other CSD other provider other banks institution will get on the digital way the better will be because at at some point is a scale game is a network game. Blockchain is a network by definition. So you cannot scale without

more people playing the game. I think time is come to start to play the game of blockchain. Um two points on my side. Um so we are in production meaning you if you are an asset issuer you can list the asset with BX digital. If you are a bank you can uh start on boarding as trading participant at BX digital and go into production together with us. Um we are going to go very live uh with the we going to go live with the exchange uh very soon. Um so production is here now. Um bit more on the broader note. I think it also needs patience. Um I looked up the numbers uh before this panel in in the US uh they introduced electronic registries in like 73 and they had like 50% of the assets being in in electric

electronic form by end of the 80s. So it took like roughly 15 years to actually move on to to new tech rails and we are now at roughly like 1% still being in physical certificates 50 years later. So it takes time. We are shifting infrastructure here. I hope it doesn't take another 50 years. Uh but still it might take another 10 years actually until we move the majority of the assets on tokenized trails. >> Thanks so much Lydia Robert. >> So so I believe uh scalability is not anymore about technology. It's a it's about the the business model. I think that's important because at the beginning when we started the journey I think there was a lot of talk about technology and that has gone. So that's that that's that's that's really great to hear and I I think we need to solve three three issues when we talk about or

at least from a from a settle central bank perspective. So we need to solve interroperability because I believe there will be several DTS around uh they need to be interperable. We need to solve um the issue of liquidity fragmentation. So how do we bring bring markets together where people can trade between each other where institutions can trade between each other and we also need to solve governance. So so how do we make sure that the interest of all parties involved are taken care of and and then actually we are in a position of of building amazing infrastructures in the future.

>> Thank you so much dear audience. You heard that the risk is that we may move too slowly or that uh we re the past instead of instead of architecting the future. The institutions that commit to interoperable standards scalable settlement models and a capital deployment will shape the global markets um will shape how the global markets operate in the next uh generations. So in 10 years we may not speak about uh tokenized assets or not 10 maybe 20 years but but all assets are going to run onchain. The question is really who will have helped define it. Thank you.

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