Building the Multiverse with Celestia's Nick White | Alpha Leak

Transcript

what, celestia, enables, again, is experiment, more, experimentation, like it'll, be, it'll, increase, the, speed, at which, people, can, spin, up, new, blockchains and, try, new, things, and, experiment, which i, think, will, overall, increase, the, amount of, innovation, in, the, space hey, banquets, nation, welcome, to, this edition, of, alpha, league, alpha, link, is actually, just, meet, the, nation, rebranded into, a, little, bit, more, of, an, exciting name, so, this, is, where, we, go, and, dive deep, into, various, projects, that, catch, my attention, around, in, the, crypto, sphere today, we, are, talking, to, nick, white, from celestia, and, celestia, is, a, layer, one blockchain that's, living, inside, of, the, modular blockchain, paradigm

so, celestia, and, all, the, people, behind, it i, think, are, just, uh, very, committed, to this, whole, modular, blockchain, thesis which, both, me, and, ryan, are, definitely aligned, on, we, think, that, the, long-term conclusion, of, this, cryptocurrency, space however, it, may, be, will, be, modular ethereum, or, if, or, a, different, shame, like perhaps, celestia, so, let, it, be, known, that we, are, not, ethmaxis, uh, we're, actually modular, blockchain, maxies, which, is, why we're, talking, to, nick, from, the, celestia team, here, today i've, already, kind, of, given, the, pitch, for celestia, it's, a, it's, even, more, modular than, ethereum, is, in, its, current, shape and, so, nick, does, a, fantastic, job, walking us, all, the, way, through the design, architecture, of, celestia, its differences, and, similarities, to, ethereum

what, it's, optimized, for, how, it's, going to, do, cross-chain, multi-chain, stuff how, consensus, works all, of, that, deals, so, it's, relatively technical, of, a, show but, if, you, are, here, to, learn, about celestia, this, is, going, to, be, the, perfect show, for, you and, so, let's, go, ahead, and, get, right, into this, alpha, league, episode, with, nick white, of, celestia, right, after, we, talk about, some, of these, fantastic, sponsors that, make, the, show, possible, living, a bankless, life, requires, taking, control over, your, own, private, keys, and, that's why, so, many, in, the, bank, list, nation already, have, their, ledger, hardware wallet, and, brand, new, to, the, ledger lineup, of, hardware, wallets, is, the, ledger nano, s, plus, a, huge, upgrade, to, the world's, most, popular, hardware, wallet with, more, memory, and, a, larger, screen, the nano, s, plus, makes, it, easy, to, navigate and, verify, your, transactions, and, the

paired, ledger, live, desktop, app, gives, you increased, transparency, as, to, what, is about, to, happen, with, your, nft, what, you see, is, what, you, sign, the, nano, s, plus gives, you, the, smoothest, possible, user experience, while, you're, doing, all, of your, crypto, things, so, go, to, the, ledger website, to, check, out, the, features, of, the new, ledger, nano, s, plus, and, join, the waitlist, to, get, yours, and, don't, forget about, the, crypto, life, card, also, powered by, ledger, the, cl, card, is, a, crypto, debit card, that, hooks, right, into, the, ledger live, app, right, next, to, all, the, device apps, and, services, that, you're, already used, to, doing, like, swapping, tokens, and staking, so, if, you, don't, have, a, ledger hardware, wallet, go, to, ledger.com, grab, a ledger, and, take, control, over, your, crypto if, you're, going, bankless, you, need metamask, this, is, your, tool, to, unlock, the

world, of, defy, without, giving, up, custody over, your, private, keys, metamask, is, both a, secure, in-browser, wallet, and, also, a secure, bridge, for, your, hardware, wallet you, can, now, trade, tokens, on, any, decks, or aggregator, metamatic, swap, gathers real-time, pricing, information, across, all the, defy, exchanges, allowing, you, to select, your, best, price, while, getting, all the, metamask, benefits, of, self-custody lower, gas, costs, and, increased transaction, success, rates, metamask, also has, a, fantastic, mobile, wallet, that, i, use when, i'm, out, and, about, which, i, use, to collect, po-apps, nfts, and, do, all, my, defy things, while, i'm, away, from, home, if, you haven't, downloaded, metamask, you, gotta try, it, out, web3, wouldn't, be, the, same without, it, download, mentimaps, for desktop, and, mobile, at, metamask.io and, load, up, your, trezor, ledger, lattice or, keystone, hardware, wallets, so, that

they, too, can, get, into, the, world, of, web3 polygon, is, ethereum's, largest, and, most vibrant, scaling, solution, to, date, with millions, of, monthly, users, and, all, of, the biggest, defy, apps, the, polygon, ecosystem has, turned, into, a, blossoming, metropolis of, defy, activity, transactions, on, polygon are, quick, and, cheap, allowing, users, the freedom, to, achieve, their, d5, goals, all while, being, economically, anchored, to ethereum, but, polygon, isn't, just, the proof, of, stake, sidechain, the, polygon team, is, building, a, suite, of, scaling solutions, including, polygon, hermes maiden, nightfall, and, xero, all, with different, design, choices, in, order, to, be optimized, for, all, possible, crypto, use cases, if, you're, a, developer, who, wants, to build, on, the, polygon, ecosystem, go, to, the link, in, the, show, notes, to, check, out their, fantastic, documentation, and, if you're, a, user, who, just, wants, to

experience, fast, and, cheap, defy, you, can bridge, over, your, eth, or, other, tokens, and start, playing, around, with, any, of, the thousands, of, applications, that, are available, on, polygon all, right, bangla, station, i'm, here, with nick, white, who, is, the, ceo, of, celestia labs, nick, welcome, to, the, show, i'm excited, to, get, into, everything, about celestia, today thanks, david, excited, to, be, here so, let's, go, ahead, and, dive, right, in, i think, bankless, listeners, will, already, be familiar, with, the, modular, blockchain thesis, and, so, this, is, kind, of, where, that conversation, starts, nick, what, is celestia, at, the, highest, level celestia, is, the, first, modular, blockchain network so, it, kind, of, was, the, the, origin, of, this modular, blockchain, paradigm, in, which, you

separate, the, two, core, functions, of, what typical, monolithic, blockchains, that's bitcoin, ethereum, well, the, original ethereum, and, salon, and, all, the, other, l1s do, which, is, consensus and, execution so, basically, celestia's, core, insight, is that, you, can split, those, two, functions, apart into, separate, layers and, so, celestia, focuses, on, the, consensus part, so, it's, the, consensus, and, data availability, layer, so, data, availability is, another, topic, that, we, can, dive, into but, basically, it's, another, core primitive, that, is, crucial, for, building you, know, decentralized, applications okay, so, i, think, we, should, probably, start with, like, definitions, and, mental, models and, just, to, allow, the, listeners, to, get up, to, speed, splitting, the, blockchain

between, execution, and, consensus, let's dive, into, each, one, of, those, uh, and, we'll take, them, apart, separately, uh, consensus what, are, we, talking, about, this, proof, of work, proves, the, stake, what, are, we talking, about, with, the, consensus, side, of a, blockchain yeah, so, consensus, is, basically the, mechanism, by, which, you, all, the participants, in, the, network, agree on, the, order, of, transactions so, when, like, a, block, for, example, has consensus, on, it, that, means, that, it's, now placed, in, a, certain, order, among, all, the other, blocks, so, once, a, block, has consensus, in, theory, it, should, never, be reorganized, like, it, should, always, be, in that, place, like, that, that, that, block height, essentially, and, all, the transactions, in, that, block, are, now ordered, so, with, that

like, once, you, have, consensus every, network, has, the, same, view, of reality, everyone, has, the, same, view, of history, of, events, so, that's, that's, like how, you, prevent, things, like, double, spend like, that's, how, you, know basically, what what, has, happened one, single, shared, source, of, truth, that doesn't, have, active, the, blockchain, is not, forked, there, are, two, competing versions, of, the, truth, there's, everyone exactly, come, to, terms, on, the, same protocol, the, same, data, and, everyone, has strong, assurances, that, they, are uh, on, the, same, page, as, everyone, else exactly, everyone's, looking, at, the, same thing, everyone's, in, agreement, like, this is, the, reality, this, is, the, canonical chain cool, all, right, okay, so, that's, consensus and, then, execution, let's, get, if, you could, just, divine, execution, for, the

listeners, yeah, so, execution, is, perhaps the, more, interesting, part, of, it, right execution, is, where those, transactions, that, history, gets interpreted right, so, there's, there's, something, that you, call, a, state, transition, function which, basically, defines, you, know, this, is like, how, you, interpret, a, transaction, and this, is, like, how, what, the, effect, of, that transaction, is, so, for, example, in, bitcoin you, know, the, state, machine, is, pretty simple, it's, just, basically, like, okay well, this, is, this, uh, person, this, that's signing, this, actually, have, the, right, to spend, this, utxo, and, if, so, then, like we'll, move, the, balance, to, this, new, uh address, essentially, but, in, you, know ethereum, obviously, got, way, more

interesting, where, we, have, a, full, you know, turing, complete, uh, sort, of, like, vm as, the, state, transition, function, so that's, like, how applications, are, born, is, basically, like okay, now, this, transaction, interacts, with a, smart, contract, and, it, executes, this trade, or, you, know, it, votes, on, this, like governance, proposal, or, whatever, it, is basically, um, execution, is, where you, know, the, the, activity, is, like without, execution, there's, really, no point, you, just, basically, have, this ledger, but, there's, no, like, you, know effect, of, that, ledger, so, execution, is, is like, applications, smart, contracts, and all, the, stuff, that, end, users, end, up interacting, with correct, me, if, i'm, wrong, but, execution another, way, to, explain, execution, is, just

like, uh, execution, is, what, goes, from, like block, one, to, block, one, plus, or, block, n as, in, any, number, uh, to, n, plus, one, right it's, the, plus, it's, the, plus, side, of, that part, because, we, have, to, actually, make changes, and, when, we, say, we're, making changes, to, those, ledgers, we, actually have, to, execute, changes, uh, and, yeah, kind of, like, how, you, said, with, bitcoin, the math, the, math, for, bitcoin, is, very, simple it's, just, basically, checks, the, balance of, the, sending, address, and, then, if, the balance, is, larger, than, the, amount, that's being, sent, then, it, says, yes execute, that, and, then, like, you, said, with ethereum, we're, getting, into, code, uh, the vm, is, a, virtual, machine, but, basically it's, just, computation, at, this, point, and it's, just, like, a, bunch, of, smart

contracts, or, just, a, bunch, of, rules, to execute, upon, and, that's, and, if, you follow, the, rules, and, it, gets, verified, by all, the, node, operators, you're, allowed, to go, from, block, n, to, n, plus, one and, that's, execution, uh, and, so previously, and, and, mostly, still, actually we're, in, this paradigm, where, both, consensus, and execution, are, done, by, the, same, parties uh, and, i, think, the, modular, blockchain thesis, is, that, we, actually, can, separate out, those, two, parties, into, two, different into, two, different, groups, and, allow these, resources, to, be, managed, separately how, does, um, where, does, the, conversation with, celestia, begin, how, how, what, how does, celestia, actually, modulize, these things

yeah, that's, a, really, good, question, but, i i, want, to, i, guess, like, double uh, tap, into, this, concept, of, separating, i like, the, execution, and, the, state, being updated, because, in, a, typical, blockchain what, happens, is, every, time, there's, a, new block right, it, doesn't, just, contain, the transactions, in, that, block, there's, also what, you, call, a, state, route, which, is basically, a, commitment, to these, transactions, that, i'm, including this, is, the, new, state, that, they, create and, so, both, of, those, things, every, time, a new, block, is, mined, in, a, monolithic, chain both, the, transactions, and, the, new, state are, included, in, that, block, so, in celestia like, basically all, it, is, it's, it, well, the, original paper, that, kind, of, inspired, the, project was, called, lazy, ledger, and, the, reason, it

was, called, lazyledger, is, because celestia, is, a, lazy, blockchain, so, it, does less, it, actually, doesn't, even, interpret it, doesn't, even, look, at, the, transaction data, that, people, are, dumping, into, it, it just, mercalizes, it, and, it, has, a, special kind, of, scheme, of, of, building, the, block that enables, something, called, data availability, sampling, which, makes, it really, really, scalable, because, one, of the, one, of, the, reasons, that, you, there are, a few, different, reasons, why, you, want to, separate, consensus, from, execution, so the, first, one, is, that you, know, in, a blockchain, where, it's, monolithic, there is, only, really, one state, transition, function, that, you, can implement, so, you, can, either, you, know stuck, with, bitcoin, like, you, can't, run

like, the, evm, on, the, bitcoin, blockchain right, but, also, like, you, know, on, on ethereum, you, can, only, really uh, interact, with, ethereum uh, through, the, evm, right, there, the ethereum, blockchain, doesn't, run, other forms, of, execution, so, by, separating those, two, things, you, can, actually, have, a blockchain, where, the, execution, like, you can, define, different, kinds, of, execution environments, so, you're, not, just, locked into, the, evm, or, let's, say, salona, c, level like, you, can, define, that, after, the, fact on, layer, two, so, that's, that's, one, of the big, ones, the, other, big, one is, that, you, get, more, scalability, and that's, kind, of, where, this, whole, data availability, problem, uh, comes, in okay, yeah, so, we'll, take, those, one, one, at a, time, we'll, we'll, get, into, the, data

availability, availability, part, later, i want, to, go, back, to, the, execution, side, so the, evm, is, ethereum's, execution environment, right right, so, like, that, that's, the, execution environment, is, like, this, is, where, the execution, happens, it's, all, the transactions, are, contained, inside, the evm, and, what, you're, saying, is, that celestia allows, that, part, to, be, swapped, in, or, out for, any, other, execution, environment would, it, be, fair, to, say, that, every single, blockchain has, to, have, an, execution, environment, in it, somewhere, like, it, has, to, have execution, and, so, celestia, allows, you, to pick, and, choose what, your, execution, environment, is, is this, am, i, using, the, right, words yeah, exactly, so, i, mean, you, could, even think, of, you, know, i, mean, i guess, i wouldn't, call, i, wouldn't, call, bitcoin

state, transition, function, necessarily, an execution, environment, because, that execution, environment, kind, of, implies that, there's, sort, of, like computation, sort, of, like, rich, stateful kind, of, like, like, like, the, evm, like, a train, complete, like, programming environment, um, but, yeah, basically the, execution, environment, is, exactly what, you, said, um, and, so, yeah, celestia frees, up, developers, it, makes, it, more flexible, right, because, now, let's, say either, it, could, be, as, simple, as, like actually, i, do, want, to, build, an, evm, but, i actually, want, to, add, in, a, new, uh pre-compile, or, i, want, to, remove, this, one function, like, for, example, like self-destruct, which, can, can, cause, a, lot of, problems, and, and, and, make, things, more difficult, you, could, you, could, actually use, the, avm, but, just, you, know, make, some

small, modifications, for, your, application so, it, could, be, better, for, dfi, or, nfts, or you, can, just, completely, experiment, like i, i, actually, believe, in, the, celestia team, believes, that innovation, in, execution, environments, has been, held, back, in, blockchain artificially, because of, this, sort, of, monolithic, paradigm, the fact, that, if, i, wanted, to, build, a, new experiment, with, a, new, execution environment, i, had, to, build, an, entirely new, blockchain, right, and, that, the bootstrapping, cost, of, doing, that, is, so high, that, it's, kind, of, prevented, people from trying, things, out, so, in, the, same, way like, before, ethereum, there's, actually, a lot, of, parallels, here, so, before, ethereum you, know, bitcoin, proved, that, you, could build, a, decentralized, application, for the, first, time, so, people, are, like, oh this, is, so, cool, we, could, do, lots, of

stuff but because, there, was, no, general, purpose blockchain, every, time, you, wanted, to build, a, new, decentralized, application you, had, to, spin, up, an, entirely, new blockchain but, then, when, ethereum, came, along, and said, hey, we're, going, to, build, a, general purpose, blockchain, on, which, you, can build, a, decentralized, application without, building, a, new, blockchain, so celestia, takes, that, one, step, further, and makes, it, so, that, you, can, do, the, same thing, but, for, the, execution, environment itself, so, i, can, build, a, new, blockchain for, all, intents, and, purposes, without actually, building, a, new, consensus network, so, that's, that's, really, like, the key, part, there okay, i, really, like, that, that, tells, a great, story, so, first, we, have, bitcoin, and we, have, the, first, decentralized application, on, the, internet, and, then

like, oh, cool, we, have, the, the, it's, like on, the, uh, on, the spectrum, of, dimensions, we're, at, like, 1d right, like, we're, a, dot, it's, like, we, can we, have, like, this, one, thing, hello, world which, is, said, yeah, hello, world, we, can send, bitcoins, around, that's, all, we, got and, then, ethereum, was, like, all, right well, we, can, either, make, more, blockchains and, make, more, dots, or, we, can, or, we, can have, a grow, in, a, whole, entire, different dimension, and, just, allow, any, blockchain to, have, any, application, and, that, is, the what, and, so, we, added, a, an, evm, to, bitcoin right, and, created, ethereum, right, we added, an, execution, environment, to bitcoin, and, then, instead, of, having, to make, many, many, many, dots, we, go, from, a dot, to, a, line, uh, and, so, what, you're

saying, with, celestia, is, that, you, uh, buy but, then, but, then, uh, ethereum's constraint, is, the, evm, so, where, bitcoin's constraint, was, that, it, can, only, move, the bitcoins, around, ethereum, is, constrained it, is, constrained, by, it, uh, can, only do, stuff, in, d5, inside, of, the, evm, and then, celestia, is, saying, like, okay, we, can go, from, a, line, to, a, three-dimensional shape, 3d, and, by, saying, like, well, we, can remove, the, constraint, of, the, evm, and allow, for, any, execution, environment, to come, and, exist, on, celestia, is, this, right exactly, yeah, exactly, it's, almost, like you, know, the, evm only, speaks, one, language, and, then, a modular, chain, like, celestia, is multilingual, like, you, can, you, can, load

any, language, and, speak, any, language, that you, choose i, love, that so, how, though, you, say, okay, you, said, load any, language, my, next, question, was so, ethereum, uses, the, evm, because, like that's, just, the, language, that, it, uses and, it, enforces it, checks, all, of, the, rules, of, the, blocks using, the, evm, like, the, evm, is, the, police it's, the, enforcement, of, the, chain, it checks, all, the, rules, how, does, if, if celestia, is, completely, modular, with, this execution, environment, how, does, it, know what, rules, to, check that's, a, really, really, good, question, and that, is, where, layer, two, constructions like, roll-ups, come, in, so, basically, what what, roll-ups, are, and, what, l2s, are, is, a way, in, which, you, enforce

so, like, let's, let's, take, a, step, back like, whenever, a on, a, monolithic, chain whenever, transactions or, a, new, block, are, mined they, are, made, sure, that, they're, valid first, and, foremost, by, the, miners, or, the the, validators, like, the, proof, of, stake validators, right, so, that's one, way, in, theory, everyone, wants, a, full node, and, they, they, re-verify, for themselves, but, also, the, the, miners, are the, ones, enforcing, the, validity, right now, in, celestia anyone, can, submit, a, transaction, and, the transaction, doesn't, even, need, to, be valid, because, in, celestia's, eyes, there's no, such, thing, as, a, valid, or, invalid transaction, it's, all, just, data so, but, then, that, of, course, leads, to, your question, so, how, do, you, determine, what, a

valid, transaction, is, or, who, is, enforcing the, execution, the, validity, of, the, state transitions, that, are, happening, on celestia, and, so, the, answer, that, is, l2 construction, so, roll-ups, are, a, really new, uh, and, interesting, technology, that basically, make, it, possible, for um someone, to, trust not, without, having, to, re-execute transactions, or, re-execute, a, block, to know, that, that, block, is, valid, so in, short, it's, it's, either, a, validity proof, which, is, where, zero, knowledge roll-ups, uh, sort, of, how, they, enforce validity, or, it's, a, fraud, proof, which, is basically, how, optimistic, roll-ups, um enforce, the, validity, of, blocks, and

transactions so, when, we, say, that, celestia, is, modular in, terms, of, its, like, execution, like, you can, put, any, execution, environment, on, top of, celestia, are, we, really, talking, about like, the, layer, twos, are, the, actual modular, component, of, the, execution environment, as, in, like, this, layer, two uses, the, evm, and, this, layer, two, uses starkware's, cairo, or, whatever, and, so that's, the, actual, part, that, is, modular yeah, exactly, so, you, can, kind, of, think you, know what, we're, doing, is, we're, decomposing the, typical, monolithic, blockchain, into components, so celestia, is, the, the, sort, of, base, level component, sort, of, like, the, l1, component which, is, consensus, which, orders, the, data

and, data, availability and, then, the, other, component, the execution, layer, component, is, the, rollups so, when, i, say, any, execution, or, you, can run, any, execution, environment, what, i mean, is, that, there's, no, like, the roll-ups, themselves, define, their, own execution, that, they, run, on, top, of celestia okay, and, then, we, when, you, said, that celestia, doesn't, isn't, aware, of, anything like, an, invalid, or, invalid, transaction that's, because, it, just is, a, place, for, the, data, of, the, roll-up to, be, uh, deposited, into, like, the, data celestia, just, receives, the, data, from, the roll-up yeah, exactly, so, maybe, we, should, go, a little, bit, deeper, into, how, roll-ups, work so, basically, a, roll-up, is for, most, intensive, purposes, just, like

actually, a, blockchain, so, it's, this almost, analogous, to, a, normal, blockchain where, but, instead, of, having, a, validator set and, instead, of, like, doing, their, own consensus there, there, are, roll-up, operators, and they, so, they, collect, transactions, from all, the, users, they, put, roll, them, up, into a, block, they, basically, create, a, block and, they, they uh, compute, what, the, next, state, is so, that, they, do, the, like, the, validation of, that, block, and, then, they, post, that block onto, another, blockchain, that, is, actually doing, the, consensus, and, also, data availability, so, um, i, guess, like, the, the the, roll-up data

uh, is, is, itself, like, its, own, block within, a, block, does, that, make, sense, and so, but, celestia, just, allows, anyone, to post, data, there, so, we, don't, you, know, we don't, we're, not, aware i, mean, we're, aware, of, the, fact, that, the people, are, putting, data, there, but, we don't, actually, interpret, it, or, look, at it, we, don't, say, like, okay, this, you, know in, a, monolithic, chain if, i, if, i, try, to, send, an, invalid transaction, to, ethereum, it, never, ends, up on, the, chain, because, it's, it's, the, the miners, discard, it, they're, like, oh, well you, don't, have, the, right, to, you, know withdraw, this, money, or, to, spend, this money, or, whatever, so, it, never, goes, into the, chain, is, what, i'm, saying, is, that, in celestia's, case, there, is, no interpretation, there, is, no, valid, or invalid, so, any, all, transactions, get

posted, there so, how, do, all, the, rollups, then, have shared, state, and, assets, right, so, like that, with, ethereum, because, you, do, have like, the, invalid, or, valid, transactions right, like, it, also, has, like, native tokens, the, native, token, native, tokens, on the, layer, one, and, it, goes, from, one execution, environment, on, a, roll, up, down to, the, l1, and, then, across, the, l1, and, up to, a, different, roll, up how, can, you, how, does, celestia, manage that, if, it, doesn't, have, any, rules, at, the l1, how, do, you, have, shared, state, between all, the, rollouts, really, really, good question, so actually, so, this, gets, into, so, we, already talked, about, the, consensus and, data, availability, layer, which, is let's, say, celestia

um, and, the, execution, layer, which, is, a roll-up, there's, also, another, component that, i, think, will, be, very, important, in the, modular, blockchain, stack, and, that, is what, we, call, a, settlement, layer, so in, the, model, of, ethereum right an, ethereum, based, rollup, ethereum, acts as, the, consensus, layer, the, data availability, layer, and, a, settlement layer and, then, the, ethereum, roll, ups, act, as execution, layers, and, so to, to, explain, a, bit, more, about, what, a settlement, layer, is it's, basically, a, coordination, mechanism between, different roll-ups, so, like, the, it's, like, a, bridge essentially, so the, when, you, when, you, deposit, an, asset from, ethereum, into, a, roll-up

and, you're, bonding, it, into, like, a contract, at, the, l1, and, then, that contract, listens, for, the, state, updates from, the, roll-up um, but, i, guess, like, the, the, the, good thing, about, a, settlement, layer, is, that if, it's, kind, of, like, in, a, multi-chain world, right, like, let's, talk, about, like cosmos, as, an, example, there, is, no, you know, people, thought, talked, about, cosmos hub, being, sort, of, the, central, spoke right, in, which, all, liquidity, can, pass, so rather, than, having, all, every, chain, talk to, every, other, chain in, a, very, very, like, you, know, chaotic kind, of, like, topology, there, would, be like, this, ordered, system, where, there's like, one, canonical, spot, that, everyone kind, of, relays, to, to, get, between, each other, so, that's, kind, of, what, a

settlement, layer, is, it's, sort, of, like this, bridge it, also, in, a, sense, custody's, assets, um and, it, helps, to, make, it, easier, for, those roll-ups, to, talk, to, each, other, but, you don't, actually, need, like, the, settlement layer, is, not, fundamental, to, the, security of, these, roll-ups, in, fact, you, know, these like, roll-ups, can, actually, have, uh bridges, with, each, other, directly, they don't, have, to, go, through, for, example, the ethereum, as, a, settlement, layer it's, like, it's, like, a, nice, to, have, if that, makes, sense okay, okay, and, so, the, plan, for, like, an asset, on, roll, up, a, to, go, to, roll, up, b, if the, both, of, these, roll-ups, settle, on celestia, is, to it's, up, to, their, own it's, up, to, those, two, roll-ups, to

establish, communication, between, them rather, than, having, to, rely, on, on celestia, as, the, settlement, layer yeah, basically, so, well, i, think, the, way to, think, about, it, is, that, celestia doesn't, enshrine a, settlement, layer, so, like, an, ethereum, i mean, it's, debatable, if, you, would, call like, the, ethereum, like, l1, evm, an enshrined, settlement, layer, because rollups, on, ethereum, can, also, just connect, to, each, other, um they're, on, their, own, independently, of that, but in, celestia, there, is, no, enshrined sediment, layer, but, you, can, build, a settlement, layer, on, top, of, celestia, as, a rollup, so, like, settlement, assignment layer, is basically, just, a, special, case, of, an execution, layer, it's, an, execution, layer

that's, just, it's, not, really, meant, to, do any, fancy, kind, of, execution, it's, just meant, to verify, state, transitions, of, other rollups, and, kind, of, like, you, know facilitate, the, movement, of, funds, between places what, would, you, say, is, the, advantage, of that, design, structure the, advantage, is, basically that, um, to, me, you, kind, of, have, well there's, a, few, so, one, is as, we, just, as, we, talked, about, like it, adds, order, like, we, have, we, imagine, a world, where, you, know, it's, not, just, you know, hundreds, of, blockchains, not, just thousands, but, in, the, future, long-term future, millions, of, blockchains, right, and when, you, have, that level, of, complexity, and, emergence, you

you're, gonna, need, some, more, some organization, and, so, i, think, settlement layers act, as like, a, way, in, which, like, coordination mechanisms, between, all, these, different state, spaces, so, that, they, can, easily route, funds, to, each, other, like, rather than, you, know me, having, to, create, you, know, run, like 100, clients, to, all, the, different, other chains, that, i, want, to, talk, to, i, just, run one, client, to, the, the, settlement, layer and, every, other, chain that, is, connected, to, that, settlement layer, is, also, just, one, hop, away, so, it's almost, like, a, kind, of, like, a, i, don't know, like, a, network, kind, of, thing, like you you're, able, to, like, the, topography, of the, network, gets, it's, more, organized, the other, thing, that's, very, important is, that, fungibility, in, a, multi-chain

world, becomes, really, challenging, because depending like, the, the, fungibility, of, an, asset, is path, dependent, so, it, depends, on how, you, bridged, like, let's, say, i, took, a usdc, from, chain, a and, bridge, it, to, chain, b and, then, to, change, c that, uscc, is, actually, different, than, if i, took, it, from, chain, a, to, chain, d, and then, to, chain, c, so, like but, if, you, routed, it, through, a, common settlement, layer, that, usdc, then, can, if it, originates, at, the, same, settlement layer, then, it, becomes, fungible, across that, sort, of, like, universe, so, i, think that's, that's, a, really, important, feature for, for, settlement, and, also, actually last, the, last, point, about, why, solomon's

important, is, that um, if, i'm, running, a, client the, settlement, layer, verifies, the, state transitions, of, all, these, other, rollups so, if, i'm, a, user, and, i, don't, like, i, i want, to, have, i, want, to, be, trust minimized, i, want, to, like, make, sure, that all, the, um, the, state, of, all, the, the rollups, that, i'm, using, are, is, legit, like no, one's, like, pulling, a, fast, one, on, me which, is, key, to, decentralization, then, i instead, of, having, to, run, 100, clients, of all, every, different, rollup, i, could, just run, a, client, of, that, one, settlement layer, and, that, sentiment, layer, will, tell me, the, state, of, all, these, other, rollups so, it, also, kind, of, reduces, the, amount, of overhead, that, i, need, to, verify, other chains, so, this, is, all, talking, about, the

advantages, of, having, just, like, a, single shared, source, of, truth, right like, this, is, like, you, have, this, one place everyone, can, look, at, me, like, all, right here's, where, here's, what, the, state, is but, i'm, having, a, hard, time differentiating, that, between, like, that and, the, ethereum, l1, because, isn't, that also, what, the, ethereum, l1, does yeah, so, i, mean, like, the, ethereum, l1, i think, in, this, model, um is, a, settlement, layer, in, the, sense, but the, thing, is, so, why, okay, so, to, i, think maybe, you're, touching, on, two, things, why not, have, settlement, on, the, l1, itself uh, well, one, of, the, main, reasons, is, that the, settlement, layer, is, this it, actually, reduces

it, makes, it, harder, to, make, that, layer one, truss, minimize, so, like, in, celestia we, have, made, the, l1 that, there, is, execution, on, the, l1, it, is minimal, minimal, minimal, it, is, like bitcoin, it's, basically, just, sending, and receiving, funds, and, staking, them, that's it and, the, reason, that, we, did, that, is, that it, incurs, like, okay, so, if, i'm, a, roll, up and, i, want, to, use, an, l1, to, post, my, data there i, actually, have, to, take, an, interest, in the, validity, of, that, chain, for, my, own security, so, so, with, celestia, with minimal, execution, it, incurs, minimal overhead, on, the, roll-ups, that, use, it, if that, makes, sense, so, that, that's, like, i think, a, really, key, advantage, so um, that's, why, we, have, chosen, to, remove

as, much, execution, as, possible, from, l1 and, then, uh, there, was, another, point, on this, that, i i, wanted, to, talk, about, but, i'm, kind, of blanking, on, what, it, was, maybe, it'll, come back, to, me, yeah, probably, probably probably, will, when, you, said it'll, the, roll-up, will, have, the, minimum overhead when, it, posts, to, celestia, because celestia, has, reduced, it, minimize, the amount, of, execution, it, needs, to, do, at the, l1, is, this, related, to, like, gas, fees because, i, know, like, i, know, that, the ethereum, of, gas, fees, actually, does impact, the, layer, two, gas, fees, uh, and, a large, part, of, that, is, because, there actually, is, computation, that, happens, at the, l1, that's, why, we, have, that's, why, i have, high, gas, prices, is, that, the, same conversation that's, part, of, it, although, if, you, um, you know, i, know, that, like

for, example, in, the, new, ethereum, world map, as, i, understand, they're, they're going, to, actually, separate, fees, for, data availability, space, and, execution, on, like gas, basically, on, that, one, so, it's possible, to, do, that, but but, but, you're, right, that, like, it, it, it doesn't, and, that's, why, ethereum, is, doing that, they, don't, want, to, conflate, these two, resources, so, this, is, like, this, topic of, resource, pricing, which um, john, adler uh, gave, a, talk, on, in, at, ecc, last, year which, basically, is, like you, know, and, this, is, part, of, the, modules of, blockchain, paradigm, is the, like, pricing there's, different, resources, that, need, to be, consumed, to, build, a, decentralized application one, resource, is, execution, like, you, know

i, want, i, want, to, be in, the, chain, of, this, order, like, i, want to, have, priority, right, of, my, transaction that's, a, that's, a, big, one, and, then another, one, is, just, straight, up, block space, like, i, want, to, be i, want, i, need, block, space, i, need, data, i need, data, to, be, made, available, so, those are, two, different, kind, of, resources, and in, celestia, it's, purely data, availability, that's, that, is, the resource, basically, that, we, are selling, or, providing as, a, service, and, then, the, the, layer, twos the, roll-ups, will, have, will, have, their own, probably, have, their, own, token, or their, own, fee, model, which, is, all, about execution, which, is, about, like, priority in, this, queue to, like, i, want, to, be, execute, i, want, my transaction, to, get, executed, if, that

makes, sense, um, but, but, yeah, we, can, go deeper, into, that okay, yeah, um, with, so, if, it's, it's, an, l1 that, doesn't have, an, execution, layer, baked, into, it, in the, same, way, that, ethereum, does, does, it have, its, own, native, token, then it, does, yeah, so, it, it's, a, proof-of-stake network and, so, the, you, know, we, need, that, for, the crypto, economic, security, of you, know, ordering, guaranteeing the, that, the, blocks, will, not, be reorganized, they, won't, be, reverted, which is, critical, to, all, the, l2s, building, on top, so, it's, critical, for, that and, then, the, token, is, also used, in, the, fee, market, so there's, you, know, there's, a, scarce resource, which, is, block, space, it's, like

and, and, every, roll, up, well, basically instead, of, an, ethereum, where, you, pay, gas to, like, you, know have, space, on, the, ethereum, computer you, just, pay, you, pay, in, the, celestia token, to, have, space, in, the, in, the celestia, block, right, because, like, i, want my, block, for, my, rollout, to, be, included well, i, have, to, pay, and, it, basically, will be, a, fee, market, um, proportioned, by, the like, the, number, of, bytes, of, block, space that, you, want, to, take, up okay, and, so, that, doesn't, seem, all, that different, from, ethereum, in, the, sense yeah, very, similar, there's, just, like there's, demand, for, block, space, when demand, goes, up, prices, go, up yeah, well, so but, there's, a, key, difference, and, this, is maybe, a, good good, time, to, transition

into data, availability, sampling, so one, of, the, key, reasons, why, you, want, to remove, execution, from, l1 is, that, one, of, the, one, of, the bottlenecks, for, scaling, any, chain is, that, the, full, nodes, of, the, network have, to re-verify, or, like, recompute every, transaction, they, have, to, recompute every, state, transition, and, make, sure that, it's, legit, before, they, accept, a block, so, what, that, creates, is, this dynamic, where, you, can, only, be, as, fast you, only, do, as, many, transactions, as, the slowest, person, right, the, slowest, full node, right, so all, of a, sudden, you, can, only, you, you reach, this, maximum, amount, of, scaling and, you, can't, go, past, that, unless, you

basically, do, what, solona, did, and, said hey, everyone, just, has, to, upgrade, their machine right, but, then, then, you, run, into centralization, because, then, all, of, a sudden, hey, i, just, have, a, laptop, all, of a sudden, i, can't, run, a, full, node, i'm, no longer, like, a, first first-class, citizen of, this, network, now, i, have, to, delegate my, trust, to, i, don't, know some, someone, with, more, more, like, money than, me, basically, so, we, want, to, avoid that, situation so, when, you, remove execution, from, the, layer, one, all, of a sudden, you, remove, that, constraint because, what, you, can, do, is, now, instead of, re-executing, transactions, you're, just verifying that, the, block, data, is, available, and it's, a, very, nuanced, thing, but, basically for, all, l2, security

you, need, to, make, sure, that, the transactions, were, published, to, the network, that, someone, out, there, if, they wanted, to could, download, them, at, that, point, in time so um, and, and, you, can, verify, that, normally you'd, have, to, download, the, whole, block yourself, to, make, sure, that, all, the, data is, actually, there but, with, these, data, availability sampling, schemes you, can, verify, that, a, massive, block was, available, with, by, only, downloading, a very, very, small, subset, of, the, entire data, so, all, of, a, sudden you, remove, this, constraint where, like, you, know, it, used, to, be, every node, and, the, network, had, to, download, the full, block now, every, node, in, the, network, just, has to, sample

you, know, maybe, a, few, kilobytes, of, data and, all, of a, sudden, they, they, have they, have, security, that, the, whole, block data, is, available, so, it, it, increases like, in orders, of, magnitude, the, amount, of, like the, size, of, the, blocks, that, you, can create in, the, network, still, in, a, trust minimized, way and, this, sounds, a, lot, like, sharding it, is, it, is, like, sharding, actually, it's a, very, good, point, so in, sharding, you, you try, you, build, a, system, where there's, a, bunch, of, different, blockchains running, in, parallel, but, they're, all, sort of, secured, by, like this, sort, of, like, shuffling, of validators, so, like, all, that, like, the, the security, is, uniform, so, and, the, point, is that, each, node, rather, than, having, to

verify, the, whole, network, and, every single, chain, they, just, verify, their, one chain so, it, is, similar, to, that, but, in, charting you, a, the like, you, can, corrupt, each, like, sub, shard committee, which, is, like, i, think, very very, feasible, attack, that, you, can, do, the other, thing, is, that, you're, still monolithic, in, the, sense, that, each, chart is, still, executing uh, every, transaction, so, in, celestia, it is, similar, in, that, like, you, reduce, the the, resource, requirements, for, the, nodes and, network, um, but, it, is, it, is, actually quite, quite, different, in, the, end, um, you do, end, up, like, you, can, think, of, um roll-ups, in, a, modular, blockchain, as, sort of, like, the, shards in, in, in, a, sharded, model, except, the difference, is, again

in, a, starter, blockchain, you, can, only pretty, much, run, that, one, execution environment, and, you, can't, just, spin, up shards, or, spin, down, shards, and, in, a modular, blockchain, you, can, you, can, have there, is, no, limit, to, the, number, of shards, that, you, can, have, you, can, have any, kind, of, execution, it's, like, way, way more, flexible, the, layer, two, era, is, upon us, ethereum's, layer, two, ecosystem, is growing, every, day, and, we, need, l2, bridges to, be, fast, and, efficient, in, order, to live, a, layer, two, life, across, is, the fastest, and, cheapest, and, most, secure cross, chain, bridge, with, across, you, don't have, to, worry, about, the, long, wait, times or, high, fees, to, get, your, assets, back, to the, layer, one, assets, are, bridged, and available, for, use, almost, instantaneously across, these, bridges, are, powered, by uma's, optimistic, oracle, to, securely

transfer, tokens, from, layer, 2, back, to ethereum, across, is, critical, ecosystem infrastructure, and, ownership, is, being handed, over, to, the, community, you, can, be a, part, of, this, story, of, a, cross, by joining, the, discord, and, becoming, a co-founder, and, helping, to, design, the fairfare, launch, of, a, cross, if, you, want to, bridge, your, assets, quickly, and securely, go, to across.to, bridge, your, assets, between, eth optimism, arbitram, or, boba, networks bank, list, is, proud, to, be, sponsored, by uniswap, unit, swap, is, a, new, paradigm, in asset, exchange, infrastructure, instead, of a, cumbersome, order, book, system, where trades, are, matched, with, other, humans uniswap, is, an, autonomous, piece, of software, on, ethereum, that, lets, you, trade any, token, at, the, current, market, price, no human, counterparties, or, centralized

intermediaries, just, autonomous, code, on ethereum, input, the, token, you, want, to sell, and, receive, the, token, you, want, to buy, the, uniswap, grants, program, is accepting, applications, for, grants, do, you have, something, of, value, that, you, think you, want, to, contribute, to, the, uniswap ecosystem, no, matter, how, big, or, small your, idea, is, you, can, apply, it, for, a unique, grant, at uniswapgrants.org, and, help, steer, uniswap in, the, direction, that, you, think, it should, go thank, you, uniswap, for, sponsoring bankless, so, you've, got, some, money, but how, are, you, gonna, use, it, you, want, to spend me, shopping, now, bro, when, you, know, you should, be, saving, you'll, never, buy, a house, at, this, rate but, what, if, you, could, spend, and, save, at the, same, time

for, the, enlightened, kind, with, inquiring minds a, new, world, awaits [Music] set, yourself, free, with, completely flexible, self-repaying, loan, technology supported, on, desktop, and, mobile seize, the, power, of, alchemix allowing, you, to, spend, and, save, at, the same, time leverage, your, wealth, without, risk, of liquidation, take, out, a, loan, that, repays itself, by, using, yield, from, your, deposit to, pay, off, your, balance, you're, only, dead his, time, what, was, once, inconceivable, is now, within, your, grasp [Music] i, think, the, perhaps, a, more, correct, word

was, parallelization, uh, where, like, uh with, celestia, what, you, guys, are paralyzing, is, data, availability, by, not having, to, have, every, single, node download, every, single, block, but, just some, of, the, data, and, there's because, there's, many, many, nodes, and they're, all, doing, the, same, sort, of, thing other, significant, overlap, in, the, data that's, being, downloaded, so, you, have redundancy, and, assurances, that, all, the data, is actually, there, and, the, way, that, you, have these, assurances, is, through, sampling, you sample, like, random, bits, of, data, make sure, it's, all, there, if, it's, all, there you, have, assurances, that, all, the, rest, of the, data, is, there, but, all, that, data, is actually, split, among, many, many, many, many nodes, uh, allowing

lighter, work, for, each, individual, node but, a, heavier, total, summation, of, all, the nodes, altogether yeah, absolutely, i, mean, we, can, go, into the, exact, mechanism, if, you, want, it's pretty, technical, but, you, can, think, of, it as, like, strength, in, numbers, it's, like everyone's, pitching, in, everyone's sampling, yeah, and, yeah, exactly, and, then by, that, sort, of, like, group, effort everyone, becomes, secure um okay, so does, the, celestial, blockchain, in, terms of, like, total, available, block, space, does it, have, like, is, is, with, all, these innovations, that, we're, talking, about especially, with, data, available availability, sampling, does, it give, celestia, the, ability, to, have, like

more, block, space, because, like, ethereum's biggest, constraint, is, that, it's, blocks place, l, on, the, l1, is, really, really limited, i, would, imagine, like, celestia doesn't, doesn't, have, like, it's, not, like the, solana, type, level, of, scale, where it's, basically, like, infinite, level, block space, but, does, it, get, tailwinds, or, just like, perks, uh, from, this, model, to, have more, available, block, space, at, the, l1 that's, a, really, good, question, in, fact this, is, why, i, think, i, forgot, to, like follow, up, but, we, were, talking, about, fees right, and, you're, saying, that, in, ethereum the, more, demand, there, is, for, blockchain space, the, more, the, fees, go, up, and, so the, really, key, thing, about, data availability, sampling, is, that, there, is no, limit, well okay, there, is, a, there, is, probably, a theoretical, limit, but, for, all, intents

and, purposes, for, the, current, scale, of like, blockchain, util, utilization, like there, is, almost, there there's, no, limit to, the, box, size, like, you, can, keep increasing, it, with, the, number, of, nodes in, the, network, so, more, node, sampling means, you, can, safely, increase, the, block size, so and, and, if, you, if, you, assume, that the, more, people, that, are, using, the network, the, more, nodes, there, are, in, the network that, means, that, the, more, users, there, are the, bigger, the, block, size, gets, so, as there's, more, demand the, block, size, increases so, this, the, fees, actually, stay, constant so, like there's, an, aggregate, more, demand, for, the token, being, spent, to, pay, for, that, box base, but, the, fee, per, user, or, per, byte, of

data, to, use, the, block is, the, same, so, it's, it's, like, a fundamentally, new, sort, of, paradigm, in terms, of, like the, fees, every, monolithic, chain as, more, users, come, on inherently, because, of, the, design the, fees, have, to, increase um, yeah, but, we, can, talk, about, the, limits of, scaling, uh, or, sort, of, the, scalability properties, that's, interesting yeah, so, the, the, cool, the, cool, thing, is that, when the, more, users, are, paying, more, fees, to the, chain, the, block, size, increases at, some function, uh, related, to, the, level, of, new fees, being, paid, so, the, fees is, it, hard-coded, in, that, like, the, user just, always, pays, the, same, exact, fee, or is, it, like, flexible, like, ethereum's, gas

gas, markets yeah, so, i, i, want, to, be, clear, so, like, uh it, is, just, a, fee, market, but, uh, and, and they, will, have, to, actually, oh, right right, right, okay, decide, to, increase, the the, block, size, so, like, okay um, it, sounds, like, it's, over, long, terms it's, it's, yeah, over, long, term, so, it's not, like, it's, not, like, oh, well, from, one block, to, the, next, it's, gonna, like, scale up, or, scale, down, or, whatever, it's, more like, okay, well, now, we're, realizing, we have, more, users, and, most, of the, block space, is, filled, so, now, we're, going, to increase, the, block, size, um, so, that's kind, of, the, capacity, to, increase, the block, size, because, you, have, extra fees, being, collected, by, the, use, so, you have, extra, incentives, to, people, for people, to, spin, up, more, nodes no, so, um, it's, a little, bit, different, so

the, but, the, so, there's, the, validator nodes, who, are, the, ones, who, are, earning block, rewards, but, then, they're, the, and and, they, are, also, sampling, and downloading, the, data, so, they're, securing the, network, but, there's, also, um, just, the end, users, who, are, sampling, because they're, running, what, we, call, a, light node, so, the, more, the, more, people, using the, network, the, more, sampling, is, going on, and, therefore, the, bigger, block, size you, can, get, so, the, fee, the, fee, part doesn't, actually, incentivize, the increase in, in, block, size, it, doesn't, increase, the number, of, people, sampling, per, se okay, okay, uh, then, what, is, the, incentive to, spin, up, more, nodes, to, increase, the block, size so, the, the, there's, a, few, different things, so, first, of, all

the, more, the, more roll-ups that, are, being, run, they're, they're running, nodes, right, and, they're, sampling and, they're, doing, everything, and, then all, the, clients, of, those, rollups, if, they want, to, be, trust, media, so, we, assume, that users, of, chains want, to, have, full, security, and, be, trust minimized, which, i, think, they, do, that's the, world, i, want, to, live, in, is, where, i am, i'm, not, just, like, pinging, in, fuhrer to, know, what, the, state, of, ethereum, is, i want, to, know, myself, directly then, every, user, will, be, running, and, it will, be, feasible, because, of, validity proofs, fraud, proofs, and, data availability, sampling, for, every, user, on their, phone, for, example, to, be, running, a full, node then, like more, users, of, these, products, equals, more sampling, in, aggregate, so, that's, kind, of

the, the, base, assumption there the, base, assumption, is, that, it, just becomes, more, and, more, feasible, to, uh contribute, resources, to, the, network well, well, the, main, assumption, is, that end, users, want, to, have, want, to, be, secure if, they, want, to, be, secure then, they, will, run, the, like, a, sampling node, and, the, reason, so, i, think, one, of the, reasons, why, people, don't, run, i, mean how, many, people, do, we, actually, know, that actually, running, ethereum, full, node, not very, many, because, it's, a, quite, technical b, it's, kind, of, expensive, right, um but, in, in, the, celestial, model, in, a modular, blockchain, model, one, of, the things, that, we, want, to, do, is, democratize the, ability, for, people, to, run, full, nodes so, like, for, example, an, ethereum, to, run, a full, node, in, theory, it's, like, a, laptop, i

don't, know, if, that's, really, feasible anymore, but, that, was, sort, of, like, the target, right, um, and, solana, it's, like, a you, know, mega, power, like, cloud, machine with, a, gigabit, internet, um, but, in celestia, we, want, to, target, and, like modules, blockchains, we, can, target something, like, much, more uh, broadly, accessible, like, a, smartphone because, it's, actually, feasible, because of, the, way, that, the, technology, works so, zooming, out, and, looking, at, celestia holistically is, this, particular, construction, like designed, for something, like, ethereum, i, think, in, my mind, is, very, much, designed, for, defy, like uh, hard, money, assets, tokens, uh, high security, because, of, high, value, transfers is, this, change, in, how, celestia's, design

change, what, it's, kind, of, optimized, for or, is, it, is, it, the, goal, definitely something, like, d5, nfts, kind, of, all, the stuff, that, we, know, of, today it's, basically, um, like, as, general purpose, as, any, layer, one, blockchain, can get, so, it, can, be, used, for, any application, um, i, would, say, that, the, the real, the, raison, d'etre, for, celestia, is to, create plentiful, box, plentiful trust, minimize, block, space, that, any developer, or, community, whoever, can leverage, to, build, their, own, blockchain and, their, own, decentralized, application so, i, wouldn't, say, that, it's, specific, for any, particular, thing, i, think, what

celestia, enables, again, is, experiment more, experimentation, like, it'll, be, it'll increase, the, speed, at, which, people, can spin, up, new, blockchains, and, try, new things, and, experiment, which, i, think, will overall, increase, the, amount, of innovation, in, the, space and, then, i, i, also, think, that, you, know celestia, is really, this, place, that, that, makes, it easier, for, people, to, have, access, to, the to, their, own, blockchain, computer, it's like, before, like, let's, say, i, don't, know i, i'm, i'm, someone, uh, who, just, like, it's a, huge, overhead, to, to, deploy, my, own blockchain, and, if, i, wanted, to, have, that level, of, sovereignty, and, control, over, my own, decentralized, computer, i, have, to, pay a, high, price, and, so, i, think, celestia

brings, that, price, down, significantly, um and, so, yeah, we, just, wanna, we, wanna democratize, access, to, block, space, maybe that's, that's, the, best, way, to, put, it uh, are, there, any, other, components, or aspects, of, celestia, that, we, haven't touched, on, yet a, good, question, i, i, would, talk, about, um two, two, things, one, is um, celestiums, so, we, released, a, blog, post maybe, a, month, ago that, um, talks, about, this, idea, where, we want, to, help, ethereum, roll-ups, scale, so um, as, you, might, be, aware, like, as, of, now the, theory, like, call, data, on, ethereum, is still, quite, expensive, so, even, though these, rollups, have, massive

increases, in, scalability, the, fact, that they, post, their, data, back, to, ethereum main, chain makes, it, kind, of, expensive, like, still more, expensive, than, i, think, these rollouts, would, like, to, be, and, if adoption, continues, then, that, price, will only, go, up, right, because, ethereum's block, space, is, still, limited so, celestia, is, trying, to, build, a solution, for, that, problem, so, what, we, do what, we've, done, is, we're, building, a bridge that, um, it, will, allow, ethereum, roll-ups they, will, still, settle, to, ethereum, so they, post, their, state, updates, to, the ethereum, evm but, they, will, post, their, transaction data, that, needs, to, be, made, available, for their, security, to, celestia, and, then, the celestia, validators, will, attest, to, that data, being, available

and, if, they, lie, it's, a, slashable, offense so, it's, actually, crypto, crypto, economic guarantees, and, then, that, attestation gets, relayed, to, ethereum, so, that, the, the contracts, the, roll-up, contracts, can actually, verify, them, so, it, it's, a, way, of basically, being, this, sort, of, like off, uh ethereum, can, offload, some, of, this, data availability need, to to, celestia, so, we, can, help, the, ethereum community, scale, in, in, the, time, being and, for, uh, this, is, called, a, validium right on, the, ethereum, yeah well, yeah, so, so, validium, yeah, so, that's why, we, call, it, celestium, because basically, it's, like, a, portmanteau, of celestia, and, volidium, and, that, so volidium, is, a, zero, knowledge, roll-up

where rather, than, posting, the, data, on, chain you, post, it, off-chain, but, the, problem, is that, a, lot, of, these, validiums, today, is were, they, really, not, decentralized, they use, what, uh, often, are, called, data availability, committees, and, so, and that's, just, basically, like, a, multi-sig and, we, all, know, multi-stakes, are, really not, that, secure, so, celestia, is, like, a a, much, more, decentralized, version, of that, with, actual, crypto, economic guarantees, like, it's, a, slashable, offense so, we, think, of, them, as different, like, an, upgrade, above, the lydiums, so, that's, why, we, call, them celestiums so, with, a, valydium like, in, theory, you, could, just, place, that data, on, aws, right, and, because, you, still have, the, execution of, the, assets, that, get, settled, on

ethereum, the, assets, are, safe, but, then there's data, that's, relevant, that's, needed, that um could, go, in, theory, just, on, like, aws right, but, what, celestia, is, doing, correct me, if, i'm, wrong, but, what, celestia, is doing, is, like, well, you, don't, have, to, put on, aws, you, could, just, put, it, on, celestia instead, and, like, retain, some, of, those cryptoeconomic, assurances, that, we, all know, and, love, in, this, industry, is, that all, right kind, of, yeah, so, what, you, need, right, for the, security, of, all, these, um, layer, two constructions, is, data, availability, and so, what, that, is, is, not, it's, different than, storage, so, this, like, it's, something that, you, know, a lot, of, people, get, hung up, on, when, they're, first, learning, about data, availability, it's, very understandable, because, it's, a, nuanced concept, and, that, the, term, data availability, sounds, a, lot, like, oh, well

you, got, to, make, it, available, you, just like, store, it, somewhere, right, but, it's different, it's, not, that, you, need, to store, the, data, is, that, you, need, a guarantee that, the, data, is, public, information, that anyone, can, download so you, know, just, the, validator, telling, me hey, well, don't, worry, i, uploaded, the, data to, aws, doesn't, give, me, that, guarantee because, they, can, just, delete, it, like, or they, didn't, even, necessarily, release, it they're, the, only, ones, who, know, it, it's it's, about, information, dispersal, it's like, multiple, people, know, what, this, data is, that's, what, you, need, and, so um celestia, actually, can, give, you, like, a, a guarantee, of, that, whereas, other off-chain

data, availability, mechanisms, don't really, give, you, very, strong, security on, that, that's, the, key, difference okay, so, this, next, question, comes, from the, uh the, eth, maxi, camp, of, the, world, uh what, about, the, idea, that, uh, celestia, is just, trying, to, vampire, attack, all, the ethereum, roll-ups, trying, to, get, uh, all the, ethereum, roll-ups, to, settle, their, uh data, on, celestia and, then, eventually, uh, tries, to, just convince, the, the, roll-ups, to, come, over to, celestia that's, a, really, good, question, so, first of, all, uh, ironically, actually we never, thought, that, this, would, be, a, use case um, like, we, were, very, dismissive, of, it because, we, didn't, believe, because, okay

because, what, happens, when, you, build, a um a, validium, or, when, you, start, when, you settle, if, you're, a, roll-up, and, you're putting, your, data, on, celestia, now, your your, minimum, threshold, of, security, is actually, now, the, celestial, blockchain right, so, like, you're, no, longer, really, a rollup, in, the, sense, that, you're, no longer that's, the, same, security, level, as ethereum, right, because, that's, the, whole point, of, a, roll-up, so, that's, why, we, were always, kind, of, like, really, are, people gonna, want, to, do, this, but, then, when, we looked, into, it, and, we, saw, how, desperate the, need, was, and, the, fact, that, people were, using, these, data, availability committees, were, like, actually, we, can, do better, than, that, um, but, frankly, like, if i, were, an, ethereum, rollup, and, i, were settling, to ethereum and, ethereum, actually, had, plentiful block, space, then, i, wouldn't, use, celestia

like, there, is, no, reason, to, do, that, like you, know, if, you're, if, all, your, assets and, your, users, are, coming, from, the ethereum, chain, and, the, ethereum ecosystem, then, you, should, stay, there so, it's, not, i, don't, think, it, works, as, a as, a, vampire, attack, for, that, reason, and that's, really, not, our, intention, okay cool, um i, don't, know, i, don't, know, much, about, the technical, details, to, be, able, to, go further, with, that, with, that, question, but uh, uh, another, question, i, have, for, you, is just, like, i, mean, i'm, i'm, already, totally sold, on, like, the, modular, blockchain thesis how, in, if, we, zoom, forward, five, ten, fifty years how, does, the, general, crypto, ecosystem landscape, topology, look, like, under, under like, a, celestia, paradigm, or, just, a

modular, blockchain, paradigm, like, who's doing, what, what, applications, are, using celestia, how, just, like, how, does, this thing, mature, and, develop, and, expand, over time that's, a, really, good, question, so um, i, also, this, reminded, me, of, the, fact that, we, never, when, we were, talking, about scalability, you, were, saying, like, oh, well you, know, celestia, wouldn't, be, as scalable, as, salon, or, something, like, that actually, the, answer, is, is, no, it's, the opposite, so, the, celestial, will, be, far more, scalable, than, solana, or, any monolithic, chain, ever, possibly, could, be because, basically, we, get, the, best, of both, worlds, we, can have, these, like, mega, powered, nodes, um where, like, the, block, production, is, i'm going, to, call, it, centralized, but, high very, high, resource but, actually, doesn't, cause

centralization, so, that, the, because, the end, users, are, still, verifying, everything um, and, so, i, foresee, a, future, where celestia, has maybe, orders, of, magnitude, more, data throughput, than, um, any, monolithic, chain ever, did, and, so, i, think, we'll, we'll really, reach, this, like, if, we, if, we, want to, transition, to, mass, adoption, to, me, the only, viable, path is, via, a modular, blockchain, so, but beyond, that, what, is, what, is, the, future, i mean, i, see, a, proliferation, of, um execution, layers, i, think, and, and, i'm already, seeing, this, sort, of, anecdotally within, our, own, ecosystem, and, and, within the, blockchain, space, like, a, lot, of people, are, getting, excited, about, roll ups, because, they're, realizing, how

they're, they're, really, a, new, paradigm and, i, also, frankly, see, a, proliferation in, the, long, term of, other, data, availability, schemes, and other, data, availability, layers, like, i think, and, i think, that's, healthy, right like, the, like, we, have, this, saying um, in, celestia, which, is, modularism, not maximalism, and, so, what, that, means, is basically, that, you, know, in, in, a, like, i think, one, of, the, reasons, why, the blockchain, space, has, had, this, crazy tribalism, and, maximalism, is, that, every monolithic, chain, has, to, be, its, own island, and, is, really, locked, into, its, one design, paradigm, and, has, to, do, everything on, its, own, right, so, it's, like, it's, very much, like, dog, eat, dog, kind, of, every, man for, themselves, and, in, a, modular blockchain, paradigm, it's, more, about, like

hey, i'm, you, know, i'm, building, this one, chain, to, focus, on, this, one, function and, then, the, end, users, and, the developers, can, plug, in, and, mix, and, match and, do, what, they, want, and, there, let, the market, sort, of, decide, right, like, there will, like, there'll, still, be, a competition, between, different, execution layers, or, different, data, availability layers, but, the, point, is, that, we're we're, all, sort, of, like, on, an, even playing, field, and, we're, all, trying, to build, the, most, trust, minimized, most useful most, like, plugable, and modular, uh, components, as, possible i, think, to, put, that differently, is, that, we're, all, very tribal, because, our, island, our uh, blockchains, are, all, siloed, away, from

each, other, but, then, when, you, put, them onto, a, substrate, that, allows, cross-chain communication, cross-chain, assets cross-chain, whatever all, of, a, sudden, that, those, tribes perhaps, melt, away, just, because, like we're, on, the, we're, all, on, the, same protocol, for, the, first, time yeah, exactly, and, a, key, part, of, this vision, and, we, didn't, really, touch, on this, but, one, of, the, other, reasons, why this, module, blockchain, paradigm, is, so important, and, i, think, revolutionary, and is, the, future, for, blockchain infrastructure, is, that the, roll-ups, or, these, chains, when, they share, a, common, data, availability, layer they, can, interoperate, with, the, highest security, so, they, can, have, truly, tough trust, minimized, securities, it's, almost as, if so, it's, it's, it's, almost, as, if, they would, be, applications, running, on, on, the

evm, like, you, know, we're, used, to, the, fact that, applications, the, evm, they, all, share the, ethereum, as, their, security, layers you, don't, for, an, application, to, talk, to each, other, they, don't, have, to, worry, like oh, is, this, application, secure, or, not, so you, you, get, that, same, thing, what, you don't, what, you, lose, though, is, atomicity so, like, you, know, different, roll-ups, will still, you, know, have, this, sort, of cross-chain, thing, where, you, can't guarantee that, a, transaction, here, is, going, to be atomically, execute, with, another, like contract, here, so, you, do, lose, that, but what, i, think, would, it, will, supercharge this, multi-chain, the, evolution, of, this multi-chain, universe, and, really, like create, like, an, internet, of, blockchains where, there's, this, common, security, layer that, underpins, everything

and, then, you, can, proliferate, you, can like, deploy, chains, at, will, like, we, want to, make, it, possible, for, people, to, deploy a, blockchain, as, easily, as, it, is, right now, to, deploy, a, smart, contract, on ethereum, so, like, in, if, you, imagine, that world, will, have, the, same, amount, of proliferation, of, contracts or, of, of, chains, as, there, are, contracts and, applications, on, ethereum, in, the, long term, like, that's, that's, really, what, gets me, jazzed, up, is, like, just, the, the, future sort, of, you, know, explosion, and, cambrian sort, of, like, um, explosion, of, of, like, the multi-chain, uh, universe, like, we're, so early, still, in, in, this, whole, exploration of, what, blockchains, are, capable, of, and um, i, think, this, is, a, fundamental evolution, and

how, we'll, be, able, to, build, these, systems and, how, we'll, be, able, to, scale, them, well nick, i, can, certainly, see, your, excitement so, it, gets, me, excited, as, well, if, any listeners, or, viewers, on, the, youtube, are excited, and, want, to, learn, more, about celestia, where, should, they, go so, our, website, is, a, good, place, to, start celestia.org and also, our, twitter, account, celestia, org one, word, um, you, know, we, have, a, bunch, of there's, a, resources, page, there's, a, faq page you, can, go, onto, youtube, a, bunch, of, other podcasts, and, talks, that, we've, given i, i, really, enjoy there, was, a, recent, interview, that, john adler, did, on, the, delphi, podcast, which, i think, is, a, great, starting, point um, but, yeah, like, reach, out, and, join, our discord, of, course, and, telegram, you'll

find, those, links, on, our, website and, we, will, also, put, them, into, the, show notes, as, well, nick, thank, you, so, much, for coming, on, to, uh, to, bankless, and, telling us, all, about, celestia david, it's, my, pleasure, thank, you, again and, let's, stay, in, touch, thanks, thank this, community, hey, we, hope, you, enjoyed the, video, if, you, did, head, over, to bankless, hq, right, now, to, develop, your crypto, investing, skills, and, learn, how, to free, yourself, from, banks, and, gain, your financial, independence, we, recommend joining, our, daily, newsletter, podcast, and community, as, a, bankless, premium subscriber, to, get, the, most, out, of, your bank, list, experience, you'll, get, access to, our, market, analysis, our, alpha, leaks and, exclusive, content, and, even, the bankless, token, for, airdrops, raffles, and unlocks, if, you're, interested, in, crypto

the, bankless, community, is, where, you, want to, be, click, the, link, in, the, description to, become, a, bankless, premium, subscriber today, also, don't, forget, to, subscribe, to the, channel, for, in-depth, interviews, with industry, leaders, ask, me, anythings, and weekly, roll, ups, where, we, summarize, the week, in, crypto, and, other, fantastic content, thanks, everyone, for, watching, and being, on, the, journey, as, we, build, out, the bankless, nation