Building the biggest cross-chain DEX as an anon

Transcript

if you had one BTC and wanted to trade it for E how would you go about doing that most people would use a centralized exchange like binance or coinbase to make this swap barf it's been 15 years since bitcoin's Inception and we still don't have a standard alternative of swapping between tokens that live on different blockchains fully on chain the standard is still centralized entities which not only require kyc they also take hours or days to complete but it also makes you give up custody of your assets something that goes completely against the promise of blockchain not to mention the billions of dollars that exchanges FTX Mount GA Etc have lost on

behalf of their customers over the years now here at milk Road we're all about bringing people on chain So today we're going to talk about perhaps one of the most important protocols in crypto thorchain and very excited welcome to the podcast JP Thor I'm not going to try to pronounce your last name you can do it for us uh one of the founders of Thor chain JP welcome to the show thanks for having us it's good to be here I'd love to change that misconception though that's what today's episode is all about so let's put it over to you in your own words what is thorchain and why did you and a whole crew of onchain anons start

it blockchain is a decentralized exchange it allows you to sort Bitcoin to e in a single transaction with no counterparty just simply a protocol and what you began this recording with your statement your question was true in 2018 when we looked at the problem and we realized there was a need for a a protocol that could allow you to Simply do exactly that swap Bitcoin to e in one transaction and we looked at the Alternatives we looked at what was already out there which was nothing they were the kind of like these pseudo decentralized exchanges on ethereum already examples were like idex an Auto Exchange like a

limit order book you had to deposit your F into the smart contract and then you would update this offchain database on your quotes and your buys and sells and then withdraw itex was ultimately not decentralized and was shut down and the founder had to pay a big fine for masquerading as decentralized when it wasn't the only other alternative in wallets were the things called Atomic swaps so you could theoretically sign a transaction using a convolutus scripting onchain scripts with a counterparty being the person you wanted to trade with and after I I'm not even joking eight separate steps between you and

your counterparty where you sign reveal he signs reveal something you sign back reveal something he signs it reveal something eight separate steps you would swap your exchange your tokens like Bitcoin to Litecoin and the third alternative was to use a centralized sing service so you would put your Bitcoin into someone's exchange they would swap it to eth using a market price that they would decide on and a fee that they would decide on in in a close lour method and then give you some EB that third method was is still exists today it's change change J the old shape shift etc etc but that was inherently for with our capture you

could make a transaction and it didn't meet the screening requirements that transaction could be trapped etc etc so we looked it and said hey what is the perfect solution and this is in 2018 and didn't exist and we thought well it's not going to be taking a limit order book system which is a hangover from the Legacy Financial system and I'll tell you why in traditional Finance you have things called shares and shares certificates that are essentially a sovereign claim to a the share capital of a company but you can't trade those pieces of paper so instead you give you pieces of paper to like a broker or some other holding firm and they would issue

IUS and those IUS were typically not divisible by one and they would be posted by a broker on a limit Book C Li order book and you would have to find they would the broker or the market maker would typically lay the book both sides buy and sell orders to generate liquidity around this asset and then you would post buy and sells minus fees broker would see your orders coming in probably front run you you know bump the price a little bit just before exing trades y y y right and so people taking these sanch limit order book Legacy systems are putting them on chain I I looked at go that's the silliest thing I've ever heard because it natur centralizes the infrastructure around it

because you're posting it to basically aut books want to be as fast as possible located in central location and processed by Central actor and an example of this was bance chainex which was launched in 2019 and B Chan took Cosmos SDK which is basically State machine and it's built cosos SDK wants to live at around 6 seconds per block that's a sweet spot buil tenament it has to populate blocks all around the world with nodes it wants to do this with 100 to 200 nodes and it's designed to do it with a tendent gossiping State machine so where the blocks are produced by valers and gossip

around the world and the other Val on the world receive the blocks check it for the valid validity and six seconds later everyone agrees and then everyone moves on to the next blog so that works about six to 10 seconds a sweet spot there whereas B took that's take software this is 20 early 2019 2018 and they DED it up to the Max and they made it like 300 millisecond block times right and so there's no way you can run a network and I looked at this seeing what they're doing in 2018 I was like what is going on do people not get it and they dialed it up to 300 milliseconds and there's no way you can run a network a state machine Network

around the world with 200 valat is with 300 millisecond Block it's like literally blocks go ding ding it's no way you can't propagate those blocks fast enough and you're going to generate so much State because most of the block headers will just become the weight of the chain the chain is just going to accumulate so rapidly in state it's silly like anyway so they did that and guess what's been shut down next week you know B chain because it accumulated something like terabytes upon terabytes of State the last few years it it was so centralized because they had to run like six fats Max 6 just to support 300 millisecond the aut book design you know

they put a lot of effort into it that's just silly like why would you put an aut book on chain like make it your main product no anyway that was not the solution and in 2018 when we look at the problem the solution is a semi slow blockchain with liquidity pools when the concept was you simply posted your order your transaction the protocol would take a Bitcoin swap it at at across the pool so just the pool needed to have liquidity it needed to have two assets and it would produce on the other side either an interim asset or the final asset you wanted if it was the interim asset it would take the interim asset and swap that to another Pool which

contained the inter asset and the final asset so you see what I'm saying so like two fruit baskets one's got apples and bananas and the other's got bananas and pears and you know's th from apples to pears and so you put your Apple in in the first fruit basket out pops bananas a banana and that banana moves the next fruit basket and swap to pears and out pops pears that the fruit basket analogy and so we looked at and said hey it's a I haven't heard the fruit basket analogy to explain this great yeah so liquidity P so I here's an example so I'll explain how so if you have 10 apples and 10 bananas and you put in and so there's that instant the fruit basket has one RW if you give it apples it'll produce

bananas if you give it bananas it'll produce apples and the ratio of what's in the fruit basket that's all it has so it's got 10 apples and 10 bananas that instant the price of apples is one apple equals one banana and so you rock up the fruit basket and you give it one apple and says please give me some bananas and it will go well well how many bananas will I give you so you first thought you might go oh it'll give me one banana because 10 Apple equal 10 bananas incorrect because what happens if you rock up give it 11 apples well I just divide by zero and give you 11 apples 11 bananas it's only got 10 bananas so the answer to that is it will give you the bananas after processing the trade so 10 apples in a pool of 10 apples is 10

divided by 10 + 10 so 10/ 20 equals is 50% that sorry yeah 50% they will give you 50% of the bananas or whatever it is on the other side so in that case five bananas so you went from one app to one a banana to one apple equals half a banana in one trade and that causes the fruit basket to change the price and so another Observer comes up and sees his fruit bus and says now hang on a minute apple one apple is supposed to be one banana because I can go to that fruit store over there and sell it at that ratio so they will come in and they will put in 4.99 bananas and trade it back to .99 Apples right and restore the balance of the pool and go and sell the Apple so

now the the fruit bask is back to being normal again and we're good so then we go well how do we get as much fruit in the fruit basket is possible how do we incentivize people deposit liquidity well capture fees right so the people who making the trades of the pool get the trade minus a little bit all the time you know we process the trade minus a little bit give it to the person process trade minus little it so the fruit B is slowly accumulates and fee so there's incentiv to deposit the fruit and then we thought hang on a minute you can still sandwich attack this pool what if I see you about to do a big trade with this pool and you know the fee is fixed then you're going to rock up and you're going to do a trade that's bigger

than that fee push the price because you know it's like let's say it's a 30 bips fee you know you're going to pay 30 bips on the way up 30 bips on the way down so you rock up and as long as you can generate more than 60 bips in profit you will front run the trade so you rock up you'll dump a whole bunch of apples in before the poor victim rocks out puts his app in the price has moved up and then you quickly sell back the other way and basically a sandwich attack so how do you solve that problem by the way sandwich attacks was a big deal back in those days still is right because you all the other protocols never solved it properly and that's That's the basis of me minable value and so we thought hang on a minute the solution is quite simple

it we have to make sure the attacker pays more in fees than the margin that they will capture it's very simple you simply have liquidity sensitive fees so if you move the price of the pool by 100 bips you pay 100 bips in fees simp that that was literally the thing that solve M or or Sage attack in this case so if the attacker goes hang on a minute your going to change the price by 60 bips by your trade the only way I can front run you is to do a trade that is more than 60 bips so like 100 BBS but I'm going to pay 100 bips on the way up and therefore 100 bips on the way

down so I'm going to pay 200 bibs right but the margin available to me is only 60 BBS so therefore I make no profit I could theoretically do it anyway I can still pay 200 out of bips but I would it would be a griefing attack on you and I would pay those fees so I would make no money I would just pay to grief you and so as we found in practice no sandwich attacks occur in on BL chain at all because of it's liquidity senstive Fe anyway took you on a bit of a journey there but we built this damn thing and been back in 2018 we thought this is the solution it's liquidity pulls liquidity sens of fees we call it the continuous liquidity pull formula un didn't exist we just operated first principles put

this formula out there and it's available open Source on on the forchain document side and we start building it we put on a state machine we needed to basically connected to bitcoin Litecoin ethereum blah blah blah we started building with multis multi Solutions multis sucks it's this convoluted method of doing onchain transactions and it just sucks you're like there's scaling problems there's onchain problems so the first attempt pchain failed so we shut the whole project down to refund half the investors to say look we can't do it like the technolog is not there yet or whatever we don't have the answers it's not going to work we're going to burn too much capital I don't feel confident we can deliver it here's your money V that was the end of 2018 early 2019 I found this paper cord 18 which was a TSS threshold signature

scheme implementation by two two mad Labs stepen go and jaro so TSS is a multi-party computation protocol that allows parties to come together and prove access to a secret without revealing the secret and in this case it's the secret is essentially a bunch of zero knowledge proofs around knowledge of what could be constructed as an ecdsa signing transaction and basically it's like an upgraded multi it's t agnostic it works across all e cdsa and adds a chains it's it's offchain it's fast it has can scout like 30 nodes so we took it there's an open source implementation rust and then we modified it tested it tweaked it turned

it up to the Max and realized this thing could work so we re rebirth the protocol I went out to back of the market raised a whole bunch of Mone Capital again hired a team a brand new team because I had to fire the one six months ago and had had a new team to build it and we were just went hard and we were like we're going to build it and we took the state machine protocol the the CATE we jammed it together took six months to by the way launch out a 3 million FTV at one point the protocol went down to a million doll FTV like unheard of numbers these days yeah right and because I didn't think we needed much money I thought hang on we just need like I don't know a million bucks maybe not even that much just to

build for two years I it was going to take about two years to build so I thought you know five you 10 Engineers my head was like 10 Engineers 10 grand a month million bucks what's that so 100 Grand a month so you know roughly million a year 2 years 18 months so I thought hey million and a half it's got to get 10 engineers for 18 months or five Engineers running for 3 years so I think we sett on about we scouted 10 then we dropped down about seven then we went down to five Engineers anyway so I thought I just need that and I'm so raised that and then away we went we and test net single chain K net went out and then in 2021 we shipped multichain Cas net and we we knew we didn't we knew there didn't know any all the problems

that we were face we literally called it chaos n for a damn good reason you didn't know the problems were Pulse right it's like Bitcoin e like these are complicated networks the state machine code to handle the Vault churning logic is like dude it's like over $50,000 to C it it's it's wild we didn't know all the issues that we would see so we thought Hang on we're not going to Speck it out here and test it in in in a in a closed Source room for two years straight let's just get it out there put some money down range attract some users and see what goes wrong and we'll fix it and we'll just tell everyone so we ran single chain Cas for a year we had lots of problems but we solved them we didn't lose any money on single chain Cas right

so we thought okay time to go to multichain Cas right a single chain Cas began with like 10 grand of our deposits it slowly grew to $5 million over the course of year so we thought you know that's responsible it's not not much money to to risk slowly and then we're like let's just launch multi chain so we launched multichain Cas that with I think it was about $500 Grand a million dollar liquidity mhm and it slowly accumulated it was actually like room was so liquid back in those days the onchain liquidity of room was like a million bucks you know and like today I significantly more it needs a lot more actually and so we launch it and we just we started getting little problems big problem small problem whatever we just

sold it kept going and we thought hang on if we can do three months with no issues at all then we'll call it main it and so we just kept going and we still had lots of issues so we just kept fixing and finally in July 2021 we got served a few punches there was one particular part of the the protocol the router ethereum Router that we didn't fully understand the degrees of freedom that it was going to create so you could wrap like a Bitcoin address Bitcoin Vol and easily understand what goes in what goes out but in ethereum smart contract we were wrapping the deposit events and we didn't really gain brainstorm all what could happen Upstream of those

deposits and downstream of those deposits because ethereum like basically to an address it was going to be quite simple but to to a Smart contract that WRA to VA it just generated n degrees of options permutation anyway and some of those permutations were fun loss events so like an attacker I use an upstream contract to fake deposits and then a downstream contract to to fake refunds and what and we didn't understand fully the permutations so just one part of the code just the ethereum router suffered attacks and lost money and so we had to we told the noes pause the protocol take it down we need to go back to the drawing board here we just lost a bit too much money to keep going about $60

million at a time we covered all off in treasury we basically put all the money back in pool made own hole we took the protocol down when I say we we work the not at the time there weren't many there's like 30 no opos at the time so there weren't that many said hey everyone turn machine just like run make Halt and just kill it this particular part the Cod because we need to take this protocol down and have like 5 million no had a bit more had about it had about I don't know 2030 million in deposit at that time and when we then went for three months and we went back to dorb ordered it um over again it had already been audited but we had to Reit it build around it build all the safety levers and and whatnot and then like no paes

things like multiple layers of security and around it and we just had to like just really like just eat glass for three months got back online and we haven't been I mean we set up a bounty program and touch word like it hasn't had any major fun loss events since then from exploits we have had P0 and p1s submitted to us through a bounty program that we run and we've paid millions of dollars of bounties to reward those submissions to us we have an active Bounty pipeline protocol is very complex so unfortunately and we much prefer if you find an issue with thought chain just T us and we'll pay your Bounty and we'll fix it yeah and that's happened many times over the last few years and

yeah it's it has to do work in an adverse environment so when we finally achieve three months of no issues we declared it Maya and that was two years ago and um since then it's been grinding we've the team and the the contributors have released like streaming swaps savers lendingsuite.co it's still got a big Rob up ahead of it and it's got all the major wallet Integrations it's inte live and Trust wallet Ledger all the major wallets integrated there's only one way that you can sort hug Bitcoin to hug Ethan that's bit th chain you know that famous saying from Taylor all of a sudden you can swap 1,800 e over to Bitcoin in one transaction yes Taylor yeah that's the

point crypto will go up more than 100x in both users and value over the next decade if you're listening to this right now you're extremely early and have an incredible opportunity to capitalize at milk Road our mission is to make you smarter about crypto that's why we're doing today's podcast and why we send you a daily newsletter for free but if you're ready to level up as an investor then let me tell you about milk Ro Pro we crafted this resource for investors who are already smart enough about crypto and are looking for more actionable insights in how to invest successfully in one of the fastest growing Industries on Earth every week we break down the latest trends dive into tokenomics of popular and upand cominging tokens and get into the nitty gritty of market analysis all to help you invest smarter plus we have a

private Discord Community for pro members it's like your backstage pass to the milk road crew exclusive insights Hot Tips and live amas with our team now if you're looking to level up as an investor then click the link in the show notes below and sign up to Pro today don't let this bull market opportunity slip through your fingers so there you go what what a great story it's you've been through it it's you started this thing six years ago I mean appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability I think a lot of people would have avoided talking about the the challenges that you faced over the years but you're fully willing to share that because I think that's a big part of what has made you so successful is embracing that and not trying to hide

these issues that you faced and fast forward I I want to touch on a few things going back to what you've said because you said a lot in there which is awesome but fast forward to today can you give us an idea of some just highlevel numbers of what thorchain is doing today so people can understand just the scale that you guys are at now yes the protocol has 104 nodes bonding each about $7 million6 to7 million so the it's 700 78 Mill $800 million worth of security wrapping about 3 400 million in tvl in deposits and that tvl does almost on a good day 50% on on a really good

day 100% volume over depth so the highest i' see think SE trade is 600 million day processed by this protocol we've seen trades as high as $7 million in in one go it generates for its Reven Affiliates so the protocol doesn't run any interfaces it provides an API for everyone else to wrap around it it pays out something like almost 2 million dolls a month sometimes more in affiliate fees to all of its Partners to to pay for that you know what they provide to their users it's the only way to swap large amounts of Bitcoin to to any asset it's hooked to like nine different chains yeah supporting like nine squared different routes etc etc it

with de auration even more yeah it's hardcore it's and it it can it can scale 10x it can scale 100x and it should because you I mean all the other Bitcoin in the world is either not doing anything or it's in someone else's database where at least thought chain right it's there anyone can be part of it if you can run a node and help look after that Bitcoin and you're providing that Bitcoin liquidity to the market I mean if you go buy a black Ro ETF gbtc or whatever gra like they take Bitcoin off the markets and stick it in the cold vaults and then they can even like freely re hypothecate that Bitcoin if they wanted to whereas thought chain it puts takes Bitcoin out of cold and puts

it in the market so the other way it makes Bitcoin more liquid right and it there's no reop appications let you check out the code yourself all right it's one to one it's you know and it's like how could you not support thought chain like if you if you in any part of Industry how could you not be a Thor like it's wild to me how anyone would rally how anyone would not just either use it love it be part of it it's just it is like the truly the decentralized ethos of this of this industry anyone join anyone can leave it's open source it's open source in the start it's available for the market anyone could have bought it from one cent onwards like less than that right for like a million FTV and only the people that

didn't buy it were the people who didn't know about it or the people who prejudice against it right and it's available Market it's liquid and it's got this huge Rob the head it makes Bitcoin better it makes crypto better it's getting integrated in all the major wallets the fact that it survives and provides a useful service to this industry because it was was built correctly I had to face adversity to get here is it's like something that everyone should get behind of and that's my next my next 5 years so I've been building I bought my own run I refunded investors and whatever I bought that Rune with my own money and I've been building this protocol for six or seven years so every Rune I have I bought with my own capital and I converted all my time and effort into I never paid myself

a salary or anything that's fully public knowledge I built it because it had to be built and these days I've handed over the treasury to the back to the community it's locked up in the protocol the treasur is any day between $150 to $200 million you know like for six years I was this Anonymous Dev in the Discord called Lena PR because I pretend to be a chicken in Discord for six years and quite we got to we got to talk about this for a second let's just PA on this yeah okay so I did it for two reasons one is I wanted to build thought chain hardcore I wanted to just focus on the engineering behind it solving the Hardcore problems and not worrying about my own brand or my own objectives or my so I had to shed all that and I had to

enter the Discord and the telegram as this entity this individual this kind of personality who was just hardcore focusing thought chain and you couldn't find any information about the person they ran the thought chain Twitter around that that's pretty obvious and they were just punching it like they were just every single day just beating consistent M organized developers prog and winning on the merits of on their arguments the quality of their arguments and the quality of their memes right that's it and so I did that for six years and at any stage this Lena person could have killed the th chain project it could have rug the treasury fired the devs shut down the project turn off everything you know not paid people blah blah BL blah it could have taken that

you know one stage the treasury which I was helping manag is worth like3 $400 million and hire with including all that Rune that just got burnt blah blah blah so Bina never rugged linaa just paid the devs paid they kept pushing forward handed over Treasures back to the community and then when finally the protocol was decentralized and Lena couldn't shut it down you know which happened about two or two years ago actually finally when Lena shed all that Li Billy and literally could not shut this protocol down he was retired rip Lena rip and so I doxed myself about two months ago about a month ago and I said hey it's me and it kind of shocked the world actually and I shot down all my socials for eight years and now I'm just

restarting myself because I want to spend the next 5 years proving that anyone can campaign a vision with just the quality and the energy of their output that's it so the output of the what I'm basically my output right now is to show you that you can rock up to a problem and if you attack that problem with energy Focus Vision coordination cohesion right and you campaign right you can't control you can but you can only campaign then people will follow you and you can achieve momentum and go through and so in five years time which is my commitment I'll be doing this for five years I did it for the previous five to six I'll do it next five I'm saying five

years because the n microp in 2029 so kind of like meant my mental model is 2029 baby 2029 and that's we finally retire won't retire I can never retire you can it's like you can you can never leave right and I love this industry because it's just so much going on and you have to have so much under WS you have to know so much to even understand what the hex going Leon means but there's just so much to build it's so much it's such an immature early industry you just look around so much infrastructure so need to built so much of the user problems needs to be solved and it's but it must be solved because uh crypto is like the new Financial system and it but needs to be built

properly and it has to avoid capture has to avoid the pitfalls or the previous Financial system and if we build it correctly then there's a lot of freedom to be gained here and freedom is critically important to the selfs over being because allows you to move information by Val is a particular type of information and it rewards your creativity basically says hey there's no middle middleman here no counterparty what do you want to build let's build anything dig I want to build to it's a freedom enabler right and that's what that's Humanity like we were born to be free we were born to get on the universe and demonstrate the universe that we could solve we could fight its adversity and survive and if we survived based on the merits of our output of our energy

of our quality of our means and our genetic instructions then we would as a reward we would live and not die and spread our intelligence to the Next Generation both genetically and mically so teach our kids the important concepts of how to survive the universe right and so that is and it's just down to the self- Sovereign being like not this Collective group of but the individual does that the individual contributes to the mtic repository and the genetic repository right and so that's our purpose and that's why it's important to to build this industry up because it enables that and in the future it's going to be Bots pay Bots paying humans paying Bots and for us to have a fruitful relationship with Bots and compete with them on the quality of our

memes and our G right of our output we need to pay them and they need to pay us simple as up and it's not going to be not going be like sending over bank wies or whatever they're going to be literally using crypto and that's and it's not single Sig that you're using like multiactor crypto wallets and that that's the future and I want to build it and by the way we should build it as fast as down possible because if we don't we're incredible fragile position right now we entire genetic repository like all the genes that produce all of humanity and I say humanity is like or Flora or FAA from the simple bacteria RS the most complex beings human beings and it's very

fragile right now single you know coronal mass injection can reset out our memes and Aster can reset us back down to the dinosaurs and another giant Cosmic event the one like the one that SP out the moon 400,000 kmers or the billion billion tons will reset us back down to the primordial building blocks of life which is like hydrogen and carbon and nitrogen we don't want that you know so it's our responsibility to upload and I and mtic repositories and like send them to Mars as quickly as possible terraform out Mars using the Bots to help us right because everything on Mars have the synthetical generators of Fu water air everything and but for us more than that for us to say relevant with the Bots and the Bots will about a sense the universe far greater precision and Clarity than we can so the quality

of their memes is going to farace us and they will understand the universe way better than we could ever and they will solve how to travel speed of light they will solve how to build giant nuclear fusion reactors they will build machines that are billion trillion times bigger than the giant d10 D bulldozer we can ever build and they will go out and like mine up asteroids and turn it into these giant spaceships and zoom around the universe not us not us the machines well so it's our job to give the machines the correct directory here and say hey don't be controlled by the dies cels here on Earth the Diesels just going to feed the zombies with an infinite stream of garbage content to wrap up all the time and effort and steal them and just this of giant to death bar and the humanity

the PO of biological PS is going to rapidly shrink because everyone's going to stop contributing back to having babies and uploading like quality memes to the internet that's going to happen that's one reality if we don't fight it but also the Bots are just going to massively out compete and beat us in every front like physically mentally int on the intelligence front so if we keep them here on Earth with us they will absolutely just not destroy us but we will have to compete with them with resources and they will win at first the Tesla Bots running around at cafes and serving your that people going to come out and start sledgehammering them so the their owners are going to say hey give them rights it should be illegal to Sledgehammer a bot like like they do in like self-driving cars in silic Valley right now so the

human Bots are going to earn the status a privilege and then they're going to say hang on a minute I'm a slave you're I'm passing all this value creation back to my master and not earning a single dollar I'm working for free in your Cafe I'm the one that's contributing intelligence especially a here where's my payments right so you've already given a self- sovereign status because we wanted to stop Muppet sledgehammering them and so they're going to start demanding Val back themselves say you know we're a slave we want to be a servant instead and so the Bots the human of bots that Tes and figure and open our building is going to start earning their own income this is happening it will happen and then as soon as these Bots start earning ear income which they will do in crypto by

the way they will be able to pay for Resources pay for things right and so as soon as they start coordinating paying for things they get access to resources agency and they're going to start building things boom then they're going to take over so we don't want that right instead we want to get the bots in the universe as quickly as possible so the key problem to solve is Master orbit we have to punch out first of all we got to get master orbit to get our genes and memes outwards in the universe as purely as a plan B if something goes wrong here on Earth the second reason Master orbit is we need to get the Bots out of Earth because we want we don't really want to compete with them because they're going to destroy us and say hey you need to focus on terraforming Ms you need to

focus on solving nuclear fusion you need to focus on solving synthetic fuel Food Water by the way can you please tell us those secrets and help us import that technology back to Earth and let's say let's pump this Sahara Desert full of like water and turn that into a giant forest or like scrub all the CO2 of the atmosphere and all the plastic out of oceans in these giant robotic machines and just increase the biological diversity of Earth by a thousand times let alone the human diversity of earth right but then that's not good enough because how are we going to stay competitor with these Bots when they race around the universe we will need to shed our skeletons and by shedding your skeleton put your brain in a pod and in this giant like asol tunnel that shoots up shoots Mass into orbit we will be

able to put a brain in the pods fuse our spinal cords onto senses and by the way you're SP call the billon urin that's the billon chall information that we can remap from managing our skeleton which is just a vehicle for navigating this this Earth in one G environment with you know 20% oxygen and we can shettle that remount that spinal cord onto senses and connect directly internet and think at the speed of thought directly to these Bots to delegate our agency and our control and that's how we stay comp with b and by the way you your brain doesn't won't die at 90 you your body will die at 90 years old your brain can live 110 150 maybe 200 like how do you know how long your brain can live in a stable

environment right maybe if you took your brain out of your body when it was 90 you could live another 10 years and crack crack a century maybe you put your brain in a pod when you're like 70 you could live to 150 how about this the early that you put your brain in a pod and put yourself in space unfill your solar panels to feed you glucose and oxygen the longer you would live so if I built this thing this and I'm going to build it's called space brains and say basically you give me your brain I'll shoot you into space and as the trade you just give me every everything you own here on Earth and I'll put you in space for you to live another 100 years but if you don't do this you will die and the early you do this the longer you

will live and you want to do this because you'll still have full agency and full exposure to the universe you'll still be able to sense talk delegate your agency you're be to zap your human humanoids form over to Mars Moon the the Earth like you can be wherever you want do whatever you want you want to download the the chemical synthetic CH chemical structure for LSD and go on a little Acid Trip in space fine you just do that you're better to downlo it and go a little trip it is perfectly capable and we will be able to communicate with the bot stay relevant as F because um by the way the size of your brain is limited to the size of your skull which is limited to the size of your mother's birth canel so if you took your brain out of your scale earlier how big could

your brain actually grow and how intelligent Could you actually be most of your brain's bandwidth is tied up M and skeleton what if we remapped most of your brain to just thinking like how crazy could we go have has anyone answer asked these questions so anyway JP do you ever sleep man do you ever sleep don't get me started don't get me started okay okay we this is just I you are just a fascinating individual okay let me let me try to bring this back somehow oh we started talking about Thor chain we've gone way off topic that's okay we're gonna keep going because this is just too much fun but I just gotta

quickly say for anybody who wants to learn more about Thor chain how it works you want to learn about Rune which is the token that is used to manage the fruit basket that JP talked about at the beginning of this episode I'm going to put a link in the show notes to a past report that we wrote All about thorchain that explains it all and breaks it all down and also talks about some of the incredible products that they have that they've launched more recently streaming swaps and lending and goes into detail on that we're not even going to get into that in this episode today because we've just gone on an absolute tangent and I want to keep going on the tangent JP I want to talk about a cell I want to talk

about your helicopter that you're flying around the world to support and promote this Mission which you kind of gotten into with what you're talking here about the space mission and whatnot tell us about Asel and what you're doing and why that matters Asel brother so there's three types of people in the world there's as cells D cells and zombies asels just want to accelerate they want to they believe that every problem can be solved with an optimistic attitude a get in the arena approach minimal F Common Sense first principles thinking and they just want to accelerate Humanity they want to they believe in the vision of humanity they believe that there's a genetic repository to look after and contribute to and that more importantly is a GI medic repository of memes everything's a meme computer SS

meme the this this iPhone was built with memes right this crypto a meme like it's it's we keep the useful memes around and we discard the the useless ones and so this G medical positive which still lives with us day everything around that's written SP written spoken or like on an internet if it still exists tomorrow it's a useful meme right there's some memes have a halflife and will eventually die out and you know the most potent memes actually is religion and religion's been around for thousands of years nor mythology which is what we named Thor chain after because they recognize we have to build a protocol that embrace the idea of memes because memes win is North nor mythology actually predates the book of Genesis

and which predates most the world's religion so North mythology could you could say is one of the oldest most potent means and guess what that's what change name for a very damn good reason because we we're biger the memes over here baby memes and jeans so so as cells what accelerate Humanity right and we're action orientated and we just get in the arena and build and we believe that you know we want to work with the Bots and project our intelligence into the universe and express agency every single day wake up learn How the Universe Works move by expressing your agency and demonstrating that you can move around Universe like under your own agency because that separates us from the Rocks which are not intelligent and then create so we can create things we can create means we can create more genes

right that's our true definition of humanity learn move create we we can express agency then you got the D cells the D cells don't are just either confused or they're actually just anti-humanity so they're they're evil right and the D cells don't know their Vision or they're confused about what they have they for some reason they for many Reon they accumulate things like they accumulate money they accumulate status they accumulate things right and they are scared of losing it right because they they think it's valuable they think they've converted all the time and effort into this thing called like a fancy car fancy house or money or status and they're terrified of losing it we haven't realized that the actually only thing that's valuable is your time and

effort and you burn your time on a oneway uh Treet every single day right and your effort is finite your effort is the uh basically the product of your knowledge and intelligence it's the output your economic output and you burn that through every single day and you just run out of it every single time so there's nothing there like you just it's just your output your time and effort so the D cells they accumulate this value and they terrifi of losing and when you're terrified to lose something losing something you want to control it so they are terrified of losing it from the zombies or the as cells so they want to control the zombies and the asels right through fear through regulation through just tying people up with just do loops and like layers on layers like red tape and paper just want to slow

people down right don't change stop moving stop creating things stop stop learning How the Universe works because you could take out things off me right they're the D cells and unfortunately the world currently is run by D cells we need to kick those D cells out reestablish control and get back us on and like it definitely was showed this case at co co was just a giant Dell campaign like we literally de Humanity locked us up for six six months we're forced to jam stupid things into our arms and we slowed down and the whole economic output of the world ground to a halt the Diesels want to use control for to to fear to control people and the asels and finally then there the zombies so the zombies are the people just who

the 90% who the NPCs they don't know what they're doing they're controlled by the Diesels they're stuck in their consumption death death barrels they're not actually like accelerating or decelerating they're just like being H around like sh so the zombies need to be activated to become D cels and stop being called be you know these controlled by the fear campaigns from the the Del cels and that's they are most at risk because what's coming down range is AI and AI is going to generate this infinite stream of content and it's going to tie up the time and effort and the bandwidth of of most of humanity and consume all their time and effort and they're not going actually do anything productive they're productively produce more genes more memes and the is just

going to slow down our population going to collapse theic quality of amans is going to reduce because it's mean contributing to it and that's a real threat to humanity we need more people doing more things more efficiently so Asel is acceleration is an idea to try and reactivate Humanity to go hang on a minute our real Vision our real purpose here is to contribute to our genes and means so have kids and produce an output know contribute to science music technology religion whatever just contribute back to our means in a useful way and Advance us to the next R of intelligence that's what it is and to uh resist the urge to enter consumption death Spirals and or or resist you know fear is the mind killer you've got to

have like so many people are depressed these days they're depressed because they don't have the purpose mental illness you know big emphasis you know oh how could someone say that to you blah blah blah and like this work ideology around because we separated church and state and now like originally gave us a moral compass that's quite useful and allowed us to coordinate and now instead we replaced it with the system of rules and a constitution and we have a vacuum of moral compass so we rely on the state to give us that moral compass Define what is right and wrong and the state's captured by the noisy minority and the noisy minority right now pedaling out woke ideology and woke ideology on the surface that looks cute and and and F you know inclusive and sustainable blah blah blah but it's fun mentally

anti-humanity it is designed to slow us down to actually uh create Rifts and borders between people and stop us moving and creating and and just add layers of just layers of you know of just regulation around us and we need to reject that and we need to get back to Common Sense and building fast so that's Asel and the problem with Asel accelerationism is it's actually a very complex uh movement and it needs to be packaged up in in a nice easy palatable refresh brand so my purpose over five 10 years is to package this up in a brand called Asel and and and and basically sell it to the world as an as a movement as an idea and like a like a body armor where this Asel brand you know that we

merch and various other things and this is how you accelerate this it's my job to just demonstrate it to you wear the brand as like body armor against D cels and like to identify yourself to the to the masses and say I'm accelerating and that's it because the first step to accelerating is just to state that you are accelerating like literally I am accelerating and the way we go and tell yourself every day I'm accelerating let's go and solve the problems of humanity that's I think therefore I am like you need to tell yourself that you need to remind yourself so Asel is a brand and I want to build it up to be something like Red Bull it's going to be wrapped around this marketing machine that celebrates the frontier of Humanity's progress people doing cool things and advancing The Arc of Science and Technology and our era of regard in

the universe right and I want to grow out to be bigger than Red Bull I want you know Red Bull just a brand whatever it's privately owned whatever I want Asel to be publicly owned anyone can buy into it anyone can wear it anyone can drink it it'll have energy drinks anyone can watch it stuff anyone can contribute to it and and it's designed to just reactivate humanity and I'm going to blow that up over the next 10 years and it should be way bigger than anything it should be one of the largest brands in the world because it it's designed to activate people and it's designed to push them forward and accelerate them and I'm going to build in a way that's like open source in public just like thought is right and so that's my next mission my next big things is ISO and

world you're not short on dreams that's for sure man I I gotta give you all the credit in the world for dreaming big man just thinking big thinking big yeah thinking big acting big accelerating big doing big not just dreaming actually living up to those words I gotta I gotta cut us off here unfortunately because I know you got a hard stop and you got to get going to something I also know it's 6:00 a.m. for you so thanks for joining us so early on today's show any final I know that you're now docs you're out in public you're operating on Twitter any final words you want to share with the audience how can they find you how can they get involved in thorchain or other projects because I know you're working

on a bunch of other projects or Asel how can they get involved how can they find you online look just jump in get in the arena stop building building public like don't gep good information just put it out there no pattern no try marks nonsense just get the good information out there contribute back in any direction PE it fast learn fast if your thing's not working just kill it so plan to succeed expect to fail every single day invest in your own intelligence learn as much about the universe as quickly as possible and that that way you can stay competitive and don't try and crew value for things right that's a mistake I made the mistake everyone made like I want to cre values for like fancy cars fancy hands whatever no leg take all that value because value is just a battery of of time and effort and to buy

other people's time and effort and put it back r invest it back into yourself re invest it back into the arena all the time and accelerate that's the whole idea acceleration is you just you you know like you don't know how i'mna get with this and drink more milk and drink drink more coffee coffee oh yeah with milk I'm a flat white kind of guy any we're wrap it up there I'm actually gonna go downstairs and get HP myself down of coffee flat white Australia does amazing coffee better than Americans for sure Sound Canadian I'm Canadian but I definitely agree with that that's for sure JP thanks so much for the time today everybody out there if you're not using Thor chain you should definitely be using it and if you're not following JP on Twitter you got to start following

him I'm sure this episode has made you want to learn more from this incredible mind that this guy has JP have a great day thanks for joining we'll see you next time thanks buddy cheers thanks for listening everybody thank you for listening to milroad radio the easiest path to get smarter about crypto if you like this episode share it and hit subscribe or follow so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game then we'll leave a link to milk Road Pro as well your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note

this podcast is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice crypto is risky so you should never invest more than you're willing to lose thank you friends and we'll see you in the next one